the 6 traits of people who can’t stop making money

i tell you about something i've been noodle on this idea of a natural money maker yeah i was gonna ask you about this i feel like i could rule where i know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a days on on a road less fine you made up this term like what is a natural money maker a natural money maker is a person who tends to be involved in deal making broker and inserting themselves into situations they tend to not build publicly and they've built multiple businesses ranging from a hundred million to many billions in multiple different fields and there's a distinct difference between a natural money maker and a great founder or a great ceo or a great entrepreneur i consider myself to be a decent entrepreneur i'm not a natural money maker ted turner one of my heroes he started cnn he was not a natural money maker he had vision he knew how to recruit people he had a good sense of of the market and what products to make but a natural money maker does all those things plus they're way colder about money and they're way more logical and they're may way more rational yeah i i i just think about buddy suing i feel like sue is a natural money maker meaning so money makes high hit rate whereas this seems like most people fail fail fail fail fail finally succeed it's like this person kind of like succeeds succeed fail succeeds disease to succeed right it's like mostly success which def defines the batting averages that you're supposed to have as a business person or entrepreneur secondly if you ask him to explain it it's not like a lot of words it's a lot of instinct so naturally naturally instinctively figures out where money's is gonna be made and where money's is gonna be lost so i i call this having a great nose they just sort of sniff out bullshit where bullshit is they sniff out opportunity where opportunity is and they win across multiple categories even though they might not be the best manager or the best designer or the best at anything you you don't can't say like well it's because they have that one super skill the skill is being a natural money maker and i listed out some of the boots so i've noticed they have that are a bit different from an entrepreneur or a great ceo or a great founder the first one is that they're une emotional about business i said natural money makers have anxiety like everyone else but they use their emotions to make money being emotional and passionate is actually how a lot of founders typically succeed it's how they recruit people but natural money makers are far more cold about money far more logical and there's a story about carl icon carl icon was like a ty hedge fund pe guy of the nineteen eighties and there's this famous story where he buys i believe a shipping company and within two weeks of going to the office every single day he was like there's twelve floors of people here i don't know what they do i'm firing all of them today get rid of all of them today and like four months or five months later he talks to his team he's like so those twelve floors of people are you are you noticing that like they actually we're doing something and it's not hurting us that they're gone and he's like nope didn't even notice that that that that they were gone and a natural money maker is very good at seeing nonsense and just cutting the fat and being totally emotional and very rational about it a lot of emotional people i would say i'm in that category would say but these people have jobs you know we can't do this a natural money maker is far more rational and he's like well the numbers show this therefore we do that so the guy just did a podcast with it's not out yet nick ke ko i feel like he's kinda like this do you know his story no it's unbelievable story so this guy starts as a he's likes studies philosophy in college but he likes math and he decides i wanna be a traitor like you know like a a stock trader so you got he gets offers from like you know jpmorgan and you know whoever bankers like that like a good salary good job but not a trader trader basically like runs their own book of business you need to be a natural money maker if you're gonna do that because you're basically high speed making decisions all day and at the end of the day he told me like you would you basically walk away and you either want or lost a house it's like i'd make like i wanna lose like three hundred grand in a day in the emotions of that imagine like you know you go to work and you made two hundred and fifty thousand or you lost two thousand you only got like six hundred thousand or million bucks like you don't have that much to even working with you you're taking these huge swings every day why do call them a natural money maker because he made you know tens of millions of dollars as a trader his best year his company made a hundred million in profit off of one arbitrage that he found and he basically figured out that like you know etfs were getting popular it what's the etf it's basically you go buy let's say the the p five hundred etf well it's it's basically like owning all five hundred stocks in some portion and you go buy it so what he realized was as etfs were getting popular in early days the cost of the etf like let's say the hundred stocks that you were trying to buy was not the same as if you actually go and find each of the hundred stocks of their current price in real time there's was a little spread a little slippage and so what did he do he's like oh i can basically buy like i can use options by buy like a future contract on those same stocks and i can with no risk make money every single time somebody buys this but in order to do that he had to like figure out how to run like cable fiber from the new york exchange to the chicago exchange so that he could get the price quotes in real time whereas everybody else was like calling and they would like call a guy tell him hey i wanna buy this he would write it down on a slip of paper the guy with the slip would run it over to the traders but be like hey i a piece paper for you then he would take the paper yell it out and then the trade would get made in that like thirty seconds he realized was an opportunity so he sniffed it he sniffed that one out okay what happens after that he leaves he goes into a completely different space he creates the best restaurant in america the number one restaurant in america was a called it was the first michelin star restaurant outside of new york at the time he said that the michelin guide was not even coming to america anymore to check out restaurants and he goes on a forum and just declares we're gonna create the greatest restaurant in a in the in america so we're that's our mission we're gonna create the best restaurant in america and we're gonna make it so that it looks bad on the michelin guide if they're not giving us three stars like the fact that we're not three stars will be a reflection on them and not on us and so just takes this audacious approach pulls it off he finds this amazing chef grant partners with him creates the crisis restaurant millennia and in a in a industry that famously sucks as a business like if you said say what some of the worst worst businesses you can start a restaurant would be up there and yet as a natural money maker he goes and creates this thing that at its peak oli was doing you know twenty six million a year in revenue with almost twenty percent profit even during covid when every restaurant shut down they pivoted and figured it out and made money during covid by doing like instead of high end stuff they were doing like thirty five dollar takeaway dinners for people whatever figured it out and then goes on and it does other things and while i'm talking to as soon we get off air he's telling me about this like current arbitrage he's found with wine collections and he's like dude i just bought this million dollar wine collection for a hundred and fifty thousand and i'm i figured you i was like how did you even in in your spare time find this he's like they find deals they just find deals and he's just always finding deals there is no off button these natural money makers i have we have a friend who i was with one time he's both of our buddies and he was on his phone when we are out and i was like what are you doing he was like well i just found out that you could buy defaulted or soon to be defaulted credit cards meaning you could buy the debt and i could just hire this firm to go and collect the money and i could bake like a fourteen percent return or something like that it was like pretty not meaningful and our friend is very wealthy and i'm like are you insane and what that describes and what you described with your buddy is that natural money makers are maximize diminishing returns are still returns they don't say that enough is enough and so what i've noticed with these people is like with your story with your buddy i i buy index funds you can do these this new thing called direct indexing which is not the same thing as what you're describing but same sentiment where you're like you get a small like spread a tiny one and people like me i'm like that's good enough there's too much trouble natural money makers do not say it's too much trouble they do not say diminishing returns are they they say diminishing returns are still returns it doesn't matter and there's this famous story about jay gould so jay gould was in the eighteen hundreds john rockefeller said it's he was the greatest business mine of all time and there's a story where his wife had just died she had died two years ago he was the patriarch of this like like he had like three daughters and then he had like two or three nieces he looked after and he had tuberculosis which was a dead sentence he was about to die he had like a year left and when he was out to eat with his family someone came in whispered in the ear and they're like hey this one railroad is like going out of business i think you can get it and his nieces and daughters were like hey please don't do this like our family is good and he goes i'll think about it and then the next week he's with his family again and he gets another call and he puts the phone down he goes hey family i've thought about it i need to do this i have to return to my first love which is making money and he did the deal and he dies like six months later and that's like an extreme example but these natural money makers are extreme maximize it never turns off and the the the perfect number is more so i think charlie mu is kinda like this right like he i think famously like you know couple weeks before he died he was still doing do deals he's still doing investments he he made money obviously with warren buffett and berkshire through you know the buying and buying of businesses and stocks but also was a incredibly successful real estate investor i think also own a very successful law practice before that like i think newspaper i i think mu made yeah newspapers i think mu made money a bunch of different ways and had a very high hit rate had a incredible nose for bullshit and an incredible nose for opportunity had incredible judgment but can i ask you a question so because the term is natural money maker are you basically saying this is nature not nurture meaning you either have it or you don't i think that you i think it tends to be people who are brought up in families where they talked about this stuff at a very young age and i would argue it tends to be instilled or tends to be they're they're born with and because the last attribute for my natural money makers is that they're very comfortable with complexity the average entrepreneur let alone the average joe we we like simple we say let how many times do you use that phrase in your business let's keep it simple you know let's just like let's just like do this this like let's just keep it simple i have noticed that natural money makers have very very very high iq and making grasp very complex topics apart friend su when he does a variety of deals i've i i don't know him that well but i've heard him talk about stuff and they not always but sometimes the deals tend to have all these contingencies if this happens then this and then if this happens then this and they can kinda cut through that and they could see where and how value is locked and they can very quickly in their head compare that to the alternatives and the natural money maker tends to be really good with very complicated things and the average show is not a very complicated thing well it's kinda it is simple to to explain but it's very complicated to grasp is like this idea of compounding that's what i've noticed amongst the the people i know who i describe as natural money makers okay breaking news right when we got done recording this podcast producer already actually went and made a fun quiz with all of these archetypes that sean and i are talking about on this podcast the sniff the natural money maker and like six other ones and so there's a link in the youtube description or if you're listening on spotify and spotify there's a link here and it goes to this really funny quiz based off of everything that you're hearing us say now which archetype are you which will ultimately help you pick a game that you can win that you will have a better life and enjoy it and so i think this stuff is really interesting and i think you might like it too so click the link and fill out the quiz now but what about the people who are smart good at math high iq but are not natural money makers what is it that they lack or what is different about them do you think than the people who are also smart hierarchy here get at math but our natural money makers what do you think that what's the gap once you have that requirement let's say i think that there's the slight gene of like wanting to conquer you know napoleon napoleon had this great quote where his peers were like oh i'm irish i'm italian and he was like oh i'm descendants of conqueror like he's like i just have it in me and i i i've noticed that these people they just tend to have a competitive streak where they wanna be the best at a very young age when it comes to mickey money i don't know why that happens but i believe it's probably because of iq and like this like wanting to win another friend of ours sai bulky i believe he is kind of the best example of someone we've had on my first million who's a natural money maker so if you guys haven't listened to that podcast sai basically started a wordpress blog which is not sexy that made some amount of profit and using that profit and influence he started buying wordpress plug ins and then he has since bought tons of real estate he's a fairly prolific stock investor he buys a lot of privately held companies as well and i would say that he's made a lot of money in a variety of ways and when i have heard him explain why he buys all these gas stations and i'm like these gas stations are beneath you right you're buying like two hundred thousand dollar gas station you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars i don't get it and he was like he has a sentiment of like but i can get good returns from this and i can just do this this this and this and this and i'm like that's sounds really complicated and a lot of work but they don't have that same like nervous about that yeah it's hard to say because when i think of the people that this is maybe the the one point you said so far that i'm like i'm not sure that lines up with my my my experience which is all the people you just mentioned that i know sai absolutely whoever they really pride themselves on simplicity and they they they really respect simplicity but you're right that they are willing to chew through what seems to me like complexity but to them they see it as simple like i think if you ask them they'd be like there's nothing complicated about this you know it's this was the simple way and to me i think it's complicated either know like for for example one of them they were selling a product like a d brand or d product which many people do that e commerce it's hard to make money in e commerce by default sort of like restaurants in that way where you can get revenues but the profit margin is pretty slim you might be like a ten percent six percent but fourteen percent eb margins then you pay taxes on that you know as you take it out but you're always buying inventory and you're always kinda living on a knife edge with the facebook ad platform and tariffs and other things so you know your life can change at the drop of a hat so one of those guys they had one of these and they ran it ultra profit at scale and one of the things that they did along the way was it just you know i like oh like would you do was like well you know the cogs kept going up so then we built our own manufacturing plant and i was like what and he's like yeah like i found these guys who do it in europe and i called them and i said yeah but again he said made it sound simple but i'm like you stood up your own manufacturing at scale while you were like in the middle of the whole thing and you've never done anything like that you i've never seen you in the outdoors you know like i so you're you a factory now and he's like yeah like i found these guys in europe doing it and i called them and i said hey can i come see it they said yes and i was like how does this how much this machine cost and he's like cost this much he's like cool so how long it take to pay back they're like it pays back and like you know two months or something like that he's like okay good check all i needed to know and he's like what scale what scale do you need to pay that back and they're like this scale is like got it so that's a check then he's like can i buy this machine can i buy yours can you buy who who'd you buy it from and they're like we buy it from these guys he's like awesome can i pay you to come stand it up in wherever i'm at in the us and they're like i mean we don't really do that he's like but how about if i just like really made it worth your while to come stand it up and they're like yes this says a great done factory day and the factory was like up and running a year later with that process and their cogs dropped in half and like you know they you know the business just got even more lucrative something that i would have shi away from because it's come complex but in his mind i don't think he saw it as complex i think he saw it as simple and so that i think they they they view it as simple whereas i think others shy away from the complexity and i think the truth is somewhere in between meaning they're willing to do hard things that they're not familiar with but the reason to do it is very simple like they don't need to write a six page memo to convince themselves the logic fits on a fortune cookie and i think that's the like where simplicity plays in like the reason to do it is very simple doing it is actually quite quite difficult maybe complex but they'll find the simple version of it meaning to find the guys who have already done it find out how much the machine cost they'll ask the guys to set it up they'll you know they'll do things like that along the way that that make it a lot simpler like i asked excited about the gas station like dude i know anything about gas stations and he's like you just need to have a hard corner in a good area so here's the track record of the thing i was yeah i don't wanna manage it and did you figure out he's like it's a triple net lease there's nothing to manage alright so he he immediately is like it's simple what are you what are you talking about this whole thing is simple i'm like maybe it is simple than i think on the outside having never done it because i'm confusing uncertainty with risk i'm confusing unfamiliar with complexity hey let's take a quick break you know that feeling when strategy is done the brief is written everyone's aligned and you realize someone still has to sit down and actually create all the content that someone is usually you and it's due tomorrow well the breeze assistant from hubspot can help it works right inside hubspot you can draft campaign copy blog posts emails all in your brand voice all using your actual customer data so you don't create just content you create content that converts check out hubspot dot com the agent customer platform for growing businesses by the way little finance nerd thing that i still remember from that episode do you remember his advice on like kids and spending no what did you say so well the the funny thing was he was like every time i'm gonna have every time my wife gets pregnant i buy a gas station and the gas station will pay for the kid i was like what but he's like the best advice i ever got from my mentor when i was very young when i didn't have enough money to go buy a gas station but this the core idea is the same which is you only spend the second derivative and i was like dude i don't remember what a derivative is like i don't remember calculus can you just explain that he goes let's say you make whatever you make a hundred grand if you make a hundred grand that's not the pool you can spend from you you now invest the hundred grand and whatever the hundred grand is making you that's what you get to spend as like on on whatever you want at that point say that that's your you'll never go broke strategy because you are only spending not your income but the investment returns off your income and at the beginning that sounds small because on a hundred grand your income might only be ten grand or well that's what you get for discretionary do whatever the hell you want beyond your lifestyle like you don't get to upgrade your lifestyle beyond that amount but as that compounds you can you know and the next sure you put another hundred grand and now you got two hundred grand coming in and now you're making twenty four grand off that and as that compounds basically after five seven years you could now live life off of only the interest off of only the gains of your investment income and not the core you know income you have from spending i don't think most people would ever ever really do that or or think about that rule do you do that you're you're pretty like conscious and and conservative about money yeah but the way that i do it seems far more simple where it's like i wanna my annual budget is less than three percent of my liquid net worth and i do that because i can go to bed night knowing that it won't have run out but i think that that is child's play compared to what you're describing no it's the same thing you're when you're saying liquid net worth i'm assuming you have that liquid net worth invested in things and you're saying i'm only gonna spend three percent so you're spending less than what he's saying but you're still in budget right you say same idea which was i guess the idea is more like this when you made as you started to make more money did you upgrade your lifestyle or did you invest the money and then only upgrade your lifestyle with the gains of the investment yes you you you make it so you can you i i just call principal don't touch the principal only live off of the interest it's not really interest but that's the phrase right it's the principal principle and but and and and the last thing is that i have noticed and correct me if if this is not true in your experience is when people hear this or when they see me right about this topic they think of like a mis like someone who's like kind of unhappy and like their life is like strictly business and these people's lives it might be strictly business but i have not noticed a correlation between the people who are like this and people who are happy because you'd wanna dismiss these people is like oh well they're just like all they care about his money and they're and i'm like dude don't live a little yeah yeah yeah and i'm like i don't think that's true and i can give you a good example we had brian johnson on the podcast and we said the exact same thing that everyone said to him but like don't you wanna to cut loose don't you wanna like eat birthday cake he's like no i'm happy doing this i'm happy and like my friend val is a natural money maker he's very happy he's very good to his family he's a very generous guy and then i could name other natural money makers who are pains in the asses they're miserable and they are mis and i think that there's probably a similar spread of like unhappy and happy people and jackass and not jackass who fall in this category as any other type of entrepreneur i i agree with what you're saying which is there's a bitter reaction that can happen when you hear about people either being very like planned and regiment about their money and you feel a little bit guilty for not being and then as a defensive posture you say dude you know that's no fun right you you quickly write it off as a defensive message dismiss for yourself yeah you dismiss it versus just leaning it getting curious and being like oh like why do you do how does that work either a it's cool that works for you it's not what it does it's not what would work for me or maybe i could steal a little bit of that or a lot of that and that would be improvement right like that's a better reaction so i do think people have that reaction and that reaction is a little silly at the same time i don't wanna make it sound like if i think about the natural money makers that i've met it's not like they're all well rounded and happy people you know may maybe but also absolutely maybe not right like this is taking it's completely almost divorced from the natural money maker side the one thing i will say is i do notice that people who love the sport of business and are really good at it and get a high from it and have built their identity on it and have status from it it is so hard that they are trade they they continue to make a trade that over time to me makes less and less sense meaning you're trading valuable hours for useless dollars right they they basically are trading their time and their energy for money they will never need never spend never use money's is a tool to improve the quality of your life and they've passed that point where money is able to improve the quality of your life anymore and then they'll justify it at all kinds of but oh it's for my kids oh it's because i want my kids to see me working hard it's like no your kids just wanna see you and they're just not seeing you a lot you know so you yeah i i don't think you want your kids to see you just sit into my tie all the time but like you're not home a lot and they probably want you home more than they wanna see you working hard as a good example and so i i think people make up all kinds of screwed up stories and i think i think a lot of people will they will enjoy the rewards that they've built up of the feedback loop of being good at something and they will avoid areas of their life they're kinda bad at because god it sucks to do to go spend time on stuff you're bad at i could speak from my own experience there's all kinds of things like this in my life you know fitness is one where it was like it's always easier for me to read that neck next to article or make that next slide deck than it is to get my ass up and go run but like what what is what will actually move the needle in the quality of my life getting my eyes up and going and run not reading that next article or writing that next email it's not doing anything for me but there's other areas of life too like in my marriage like okay how do i how do i be a better husband how do i actually show up differently how do i what if i what if i made my marriage have twenty percent more fun more spark more chemistry i don't really know exactly how to do that but i do know i'd get more gains from that than adding another you know x dollars to the portfolio that's just a number on this chart that i'm not using anymore you know that it doesn't do anything for me day to day so you know you it's it's really hard to make these trades where to say no to something you're good at and you know how to do and you have an amazing feedback on and you're respected for to go into these areas you kinda suck at you don't know anything about and like you know for me like i went and became a beginner piano player last year it's like yeah i'm gonna carve out time for something that i'm bad at that i've never done that most people my age don't start at and i'm gonna suck at for the next three months as i just get my bearings and it's gonna cost me money and it's gonna make me no money and i'm not gonna become famous for it and nobody's gonna like what do because i'll still suck at it after a year but i'm gonna go do it anyways because actually paying music is really fun and actually learning any new skills is really fun and it added this other joy to my life in a totally different way but i had to like steer away from the familiar to go do that i think that's the part i i would say i i noticed that people struggle with that's great that was a a really good bit and i would finish with saying the cool thing about my first million is that i hope that we have shown that there's an infinite ways to win the game and all of them have cool attributes jesse edge is someone you and i both really admire i don't categorize him as a natural money maker he's very wealthy he's really nice he's really kind he's got a great family we can find people who we also would describe as that who would fall in this category this is just one category of people that i have observed and i'm not en of many of their lives but i am en of many of the attributes that they show that are weaknesses that i have and so it's fun to like ask myself like what does sue do what does say like how would what would they do in this situation i may not take that route but i would like to know how they would handle it because maybe that tool will be right useful for me in in in any given particular like situation it's also interesting what are the other categories so match let's say natural money maker i love your i love your phrase there i think that's a dope one but it's not you know when i hear it and i hear it as the only option i have a different reaction where i'm like oh i wanna beat that that sounds kinda awesome i would i wanna be a rain maker like that and then also i feel a little bit bad i'm like i don't think i am that so i guess i just suck then and no no there's actually like these different options and so there there's an interesting question of like what are some of the other options what are some of the other play styles we've seen that you might fall into us a i write about more of them i think that another one is like someone who's truly a missionary where they like i would say brian c is this where he has dedicated his life to this mission a mission that maybe someone else would dismiss a silly or whatever but he's totally dedicated to a making airbnb a great company and b making travel good i truly believe that's what he's about then you have guys like jesse or richard branson i actually don't know richard rents enough to put categorize him but i know jesse enough to know that he is someone who is very extreme with his balance so i call him extreme balance like these people like jesse's is a very extreme guy he comes off nice and he is nice but like he has all these like regiment like i must take i i wanna take a vacation here i'm gonna do this adventure here because that's fun for me i know exactly what i'm about and i'm gonna go one hundred to the max on this adventure i love that that's an awesome one so there's like a missionary there's like an extreme balance i don't know what else there would be so there's like i've seen one that's kind of like in any video game you always have this one character so it's like you'll have the the tank which is like your brute force relentless forward energy this is like the frank's lu of the world yeah right these are the operator they're militant they're are militant they have a a large span of control where they can lead an army forward and just get behind me and i can take so much damage like a tank in a video game i don't know if you ever played like course at like like overwatch or something like but like they're reinhardt and so you they're they're just standing there just marching forward taking bullets and they could do that for a long time they have high level of determination extremely high pain tolerance they're extremely operational they're tactical they have a large span of control and they can be a good sort of leader thanks podcast guess is brought you by my friends at mercury they make the world's best banking product i think you know this already i used mercury for all of my businesses i think i have like maybe seven or eight businesses we use mercury as our business banking across all of them and now they actually just launched a personal banking account so i have my personal account there i moved off of wells fargo in chase i'm just all in on mercury why i like products that are easy to use i like products that get me and the problems that have so like very easy to make a joint account with my wife very easy to spin up virtual cards one click and i get savings yield it just has all the stuff that i need in one place so if you're looking for the best banking product on the market stephanie mercury i will fist fight any way to who me on that go to mercury dot com slash personal and learn more mercury is a fintech not an fdic insured bank banking services are provided through choice financial group and call them an a members fdic another place style you'll often find in these games is the tricks and the tricks is is the one who does the exact opposite they have no pain tolerance if you hit them they're pretty much wiped out but you it's very hard to hit these people and they find these cracks they find arbitrage is they come up with pet rock and they'll make a million dollar selling the pet rock right alex too is a a tricks he did the million dollar homepage and then he did calm com dot com and the first product for com was an app that you opened up and just said do nothing for two minutes and it got popular he's on the late night show and people it it's they create these like almost viral sensations john f is like this he could they create these these little products that are almost like wait it's a it's a weighted blanket and like they'll figure out that like to figure out a way to sell these almost like novelty unique items that are completely divorced from utility a lot of people who create products that are like i remember i met this guy who built the product that was naming stars yeah it's like i created a registry where you can name a star and it's officially named in my registry that's it and people were paying thirty bucks to name someone name a star after someone for their birthday as guy was making millions of of dollars doing that this sort of this tricks archetype where you're creative one eric ryan is in there so if you guys won't our cares about this psycho demographic lookup up eric ryan on m mfa he started method soap ollie vitamins well band aids and tricks and some of the ways that you've described it sound negative or sound insulting that's not at all what you mean but it's like they have magic yeah that's far better they they can they could take ina objects and like sort of bring them to life in a way and they they find these opportunities where everybody else ignores them i would say you have the kind of like visionary missionary type that you did as you mentioned i think there's probably also you know programmer wrote this blog post fierce nerd i think there's something to the extremely high iq extremely high competitive drive probably like socially strange person and this is like the like zuckerberg dynamic you know zuckerberg archetype where you think because they're nerdy they're weak but no they're actually incredibly fierce you just have to play them on their battlefield and it's like if you ever go to a magic at the gathering you know tournament or a chest tournament and you you think this is like it's gonna be like quiet meek like you know sort of sterile and it's like no there's a there's like a fury in each of these people and i was like travis ka is in that category where it's all just a game and he likes playing games with aggression yeah i think you have the sort of the deep students so i think you know they're there's some people who are like you know like in game of thrones the guy who's like in the he's like just copying writing things down on scrolls like the historians and so you find people like the what is it dan carlin of har history or david sen there's people who they have an incredible like long distance running style of mentality around like the incredible endurance for history for study and fascination with you know the ina dead right like the people who aren't even around anymore they don't go play the game themselves but they'll study everybody who plays the game to a depth that is you know unbelievable and they become experts in that way and so i think there's people who do that in every industry actually you you find people who are who are like that you know we've done almost one thousand podcasts of which some percentage for interviews and it's fun i've found myself like categorizing people it sounds like you have as well right and that's like interesting and i think the deep the the reaction to this needs to be not that stupid or whatever like negative story that you tell yourself but like where do i find myself drifting towards how do they act and what attributes can i steal or mimic from all the others that will make me fulfilled and happy yeah ray dahlia said it well he when was he we were like dude you really really believe in personality tests like to it a degree that i don't find most kind of like incredibly intelligent billionaire types to be really into this and his very simple point was do you think you'll have more success fighting your nature or working with your nature like we all have some natural wiring of how we are your nature obviously working you know working on things or in style that suits you is gonna be better and less friction than try to do some other style that doesn't suit you at all and when he set out like that i was like that makes complete sets i've never actually thought about these different place do we're doing this off the cuff i'd be interested it'd be interesting to actually sit down and try to do but i i'd be down to do this with like a little project there's one more i thought of just now which is the sniff and the sniff is a little bit like the natural money maker but they just sniff out deals they sniff out opportunity and they're less hands on it it's really as an investor so i've actually talked about this with austin reef so austin reef for morning brew i think he's a good operator but i don't think he's the best i think he's one of the best sniff first this guy has told me about like seven things early that were non obvious that i kinda dismissed that turned out to be so on point and he really is very good at finding almost these off market off the beaten path trends or sometimes it's just a singular person where he's like that person's got it or this idea is gonna work or this category is were is is gonna work and he is so spot on which is weird because i don't think that's what he i don't think that's what he thinks about himself but it is so obvious to me that that is what he is absolutely world class i've had a couple of friends that i like this a friend vis michelle who is like this who put me on to things very early on my first bitcoin purchases back in like twenty fourteen were because he immediately was like yeah this is huge and oh by the way you know the second thing he said was huge he was like it was you know it was gonna be like stable coins and privacy coins and prediction markets and this is back when like the stable coin projects were all terrible and he's like yeah don't know which one it's gonna be but i know that one of these is gonna be very massive and it turned out that that was correct this is like before the terms were even really like mainstream well because those people tend to be did they differ from the money makers a little bit because they tend to be more enthusiastic their conviction gets really high yeah and they're they're they're enthusiasts and business people so austin's are of my best friends he lives on the street from me he does this all the time rahul he'll like say something and he gets a lit lit up where he'll like talk about it and he wants to share it a lot of my friends who are like these natural money makers they shut up they don't want people to know jesus like this like yeah i agree he's ent but he's got an amazing nose you know he obviously you know sniffed out the kind of naps opportunity but then after that you know the guy made more money off facebook than anybody you know almost as much as zuckerberg working he even he didn't even create the thing he just saw it early on for what it was and realized what it was before anybody else and then if you read this memo he wrote this email he wrote to the founders of spotify he spotted spotify before anybody else also before they before they prop he was like look he believed it before they did you guys well i i don't know if they they're working on ourselves i guess what i mean is these people they tend to think i don't think you get it this is gonna be so much bigger exactly exactly and you've seen i've seen a couple of these people that are are are just amazing at sniffing out the the the winner the opportunity and it's so obvious to them and it's not obvious to others and then the world catches up and those people make for incredible investors obviously you know it's a conviction arbitrage you you you believe before everybody else believes you see it before everybody else sees it for it to be true and when you do that you can make a lot of money sniff tricks magician i a money maker yeah that's sure my be care tank missionary i we maybe should work on our names a little bit but yeah there's something here sound like sexual positions yeah i have some like slurs yeah alright that's it that's a pop i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to from at all in and like a day's off on a road travel never looking back alright let's take a quick break i wanna tell you about marketing school it is a podcast that's is part of the hubspot podcast network and it is run by neil patel and eric sue and these guys are both marketers who are running businesses and so if you want real world tactics from practitioners who are actually out there in the field doing it this is the podcast for you check it out wherever you get your podcast this