Why "Desperation Induced Focus" Is the Key to Success, Plus Listener Questions

if you can only get done one thing this year what would it be don't waste your time with anything else just take your best person which is either you the ceo whoever and make them responsible for that problem and give them everything they need to do it i feel like got rude to wear know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on a goal travel never looking back you do you do you know you know where i am or no i have no idea where you are oh i'm in portugal dude i'm recording this on a microphone like a blue yeti mic and just my iphone oh okay that's pretty good it's sick right what are you doing in portugal so jack smith our friend jack he is looking at retreats out here in the rural area of portugal like the outside the city and he wants to buy a medi a retreat and turned it into a meditation retreat and he asked me to go with them and check it out with them so i he's like buying a retreat center yeah but like a plot of land that has like five to twenty cabins on it he's looking at multiple places and why is he doing that because silent retreats made a difference in his life and he's like in the meditation and stuff and he wants to do it and he likes portugal i don't know why it's really cheap here dude we went out to dinner with like six of us and i felt like we went to a fancy dinner in order a ton of stuff and it was a hundred and twenty bucks that's amazing so he's also buying a farm that's money your your short term rental thing is just like you're i thought a short term rental i even say that buying big ass piece of land at least just put your flag down is it is this like the yellow taxi cab thing where like worth talking about yellow taxis therefore we see them everywhere or have you noticed that this is like this is popular i can't decide i don't know if it's popular or not but ever since you posted your photos of yours or you sent me yours it went from like an idea that just sounded like a pain in the ass to something i'm like kinda itching and wishing i had myself so and i i don't even like like we discussed not don't even like leaving the house so you know i don't even know why i want this piece of land i'm never gonna go i'm i'm literally never gonna go i don't think i'm gonna go that much either i'm renting it out or for time yeah and i don't wanna deal with all that i don't know ben have you do you want a piece of land now ever since you saw what sam was doing did he influence a hundred percent if portugal sounds like it's i actually like i was already into it but portugal is just like increasing my interest like exponential exponentially that sounds incredible i think buying a place out here is not wise whenever i go abroad i just i love going abroad and i love meeting new people and cultures but it makes me realize how america like we have our act together for for most things i would be a little nervous to buy place out here without speaking the language of being a foreigner and stuff what is jack even buying what do you need for a silent retreat like you need like a place to sit on the ground well what is your you have like staff like feed breakfast like give you breakfast every morning and there's they have like a pool on a restaurant i mean it's like a proper like hotel but silent being the salaries pretty sick a silent hotel okay i kinda like this idea i don't know why i went from what does he need anything to i need this it's cool right man this stuff is actually cool so i it's people are talking about it it seems like in my world at time but i can't just tell us just because i notice it now i wish she was not making it like a retreat because that's still gonna be like only for those who really wanna like have this intense life experience wish it really was more like a silent hotel it's like a place you can go for a night or two while you're in town yeah and you just apparel like the the it was a the place it he i don't think he's he's not turning it into a silent retreat i meant to say he has gone to many silent retreats and he loves them and he wants to create like a nature like which area on a silent retreat no i think it'd be really hard but i would go on the nature ish retreat but it would be really hard but let can i let me show you something kind of intriguing so do you see that instagram link hold on yeah i got the thing that it says sam juan have you seen this shit no i have it alright open it up raw meat it's instagram dot com slash raw meat experiment so read this guy's description just read it out loud let me see your reaction eating raw meat at whole foods every day until i die from bacteria what the fuck seeing if i live for five days or five hundred years follow me for more recipes so i'll click a video that'd dude so all this guy does is he has a video and look who sponsored it nick gray my friend nick gray sponsored it okay said is this person what is their name i have no idea who he is do always he's sick he's just eating a fish car is and like do you know what my friend the second video he's holding us giant fish like a sam piece of salmon at this raw and he's just eating it he's not even eating it like n on it like a burrito like from the top down he's just eating it sort of face on it's very strange look at some of the other ones he'll eat like a prime rib is this a gross thing you have eaten wow almost a hundred days of eating un cooked animals and everything is fine learning a lot of each day today i got a juicy new york strip i forgot a glass with the eggs so had to suck a s out the old fashioned way i'm gonna write up my thing bob okay so he's not dead so that's good i guess kinda feel like he kinda travis rooting for bed a little bit just for this idea but is he healthy is he like doing well i don't know man all i do is i see is videos if i'm just eating b and i it's so gross i gotta to turn it off but the two things struck me one this is just crazy and weird two without eating anything else yeah i think so and two his copywriting in his bio is beautiful like i saw that i was like this is the best and he's getting featured by everything because i've just talked to lad bible the interviews you're are of course everybody wants to talk about this i'm gonna talk about this you are currently talking about this this is crazy he's literally eating a brick of ground beef with a cup of four egg yolks just as his drink it's disgusting isn't it is this the craziest that you see of the long time but it's absolutely filthy yeah this is crazy wow yeah i can i guess like i it's better he does this than becomes a serial killer erica i could you know he had two paths to choose from and he chose raw meat experiments so i guess good on i'm good on him for that it's crazy one thing i wanted to ask you i think you're more in tune with this i was talking to a friend who runs like a forty person startup that has engineers it's a app and they were telling me that the salaries that they're having to compete with like they said their people are getting poached to work at like a netflix or something like that and those big companies are paying engineers like five hundred thousand dollars a year cash like that's the salary right i think she's she said beverage engineers it's not even like the it's not like thirty year old guy it's not like you're a specialist who's get brings some something so unique to the table it's like i now you're like a mid level solid engineer maybe see maybe senior engineer but yeah it's crazy she told me that someone from b was got recruited to b and like the offer was like three or four hundred cash and then like another like equity grant that was pushed it to like six seven hundred thousand is that how on earth kind a small startup keep up with this is this crazy yeah but this there's a been going on for like i know almost a decade now where you have this crazy outs sized compensation that's guaranteed it's like hey this is this job is easier and page more and then you're the start up being like hey you wanna work twice as hard for half as much and it's like shit but people do take the trade for two reasons one is there's a lottery ticket element to startups which is if a startup hits you can like kinda like leap frog up and you can you can make a lot more probability wise it's not a good trade right right your expected values not that high but but there is a chance the other component that helps is just people don't have a lot of fun working in big companies like that but i don't remember it being like five or six hundred thousand dollars i think what's going i i do think that that's a little bit high like when we were at i think i can just say this i don't think there's anything stopping me from saying this but when i was at twitch we like i got my team all offers and then i also hired people there and i would say that for like an average engineer you might be like let's call it thirty year old engineer who's been working for you know seven eight years not a not a manager or like kind of a senior manager who's managing multiple teams or anything like that they would be netting i think something like three hundred to four hundred thousand and then once you get into you manage engineers you're an engineer who manages other engineers now you're talking more like five hundred thousand and then if you got to like a what l eight or whatever like these like principal engineers and that's what they call them or like you're at ai if you're if you're in the ai team machine learning teams then we're talking about you could be making seven hundred k a year all in which is a combination of cash and stock but the stock is just like cash it's like you know liquid liquid public market stock stock which you use these are crazy numbers it's crazy numbers and you were a pm were you a pm yeah technically i was pm yeah what was your cash salary so mine when i when i joined was so they have a i'm how how i split this out okay so basically what they do in amazon does is they they always say the highest possible salary you can get is a hundred and eighty five thousand dollars a year even jeff bezos only can make that so no matter who you are that's your set cash salary but then they do assigning they do a cash bonus so it's like it's kind of the same thing i don't know why they spit it out so those two combined i think took it up to like four hundred five hundred thousand something like that and then on top of that was your your your stock yeah so i think four it was four hundred thousand was the cash component and then stock would then be bigger and then we got acquired so we had not only your job normal stock package but then the acquisition right package on top of that yeah and that's what i have now i think what is my salary i think with the bonus it's like three hundred but the stock is much much larger yeah anyway i would say numbers but you know i would say like you know this is this it wasn't the case for non engineers so you know if i look at kind of like you know people in the marketing team or community team you know theirs would be you know like a program manager for something like that you know they're that's more in the like what people are used to is like a good job it's like you know you make like a hundred fifty thousand dollars a year and you work at this company to get benefits and all that good stuff or they could get to one eighty or two hundred or something like that max it was really only the engineers engineering managers that were crazy high and then mine i wasn't just like a random a pm it's like i i ran a whole division of the company there there's only i think seven people at my level in the company so it's like so so say you know how many how many peers do you have it's so if you could manage a team of fifty to a hundred people then you could have that kind of comp how many people do you think who worked at amazon because i don't think twitch would apply here how many people do you think that would work at one of these big companies that probably had a liquid net worth north of fifty million from their comp not i don't know if you said twitch but yeah not not at twitch not twitch i meant amazon i don't know man i i've i kind of put this out there once i think i asked i was like how many people at at this company would make more than x and i kinda got like a fuzzy answer so i don't know i don't i don't have a great answer for that unfortunately yeah i was thinking about that with hubspot i'm like how many how many people do you think have made more than twenty million dollars from their stock and well like for example even when twitch got acquired by amazon the stock had gone up i think four five four five x since then so you know even if you came in and you got a million dollars in the acquisition you actually you had four or five million dollars if you just held on to your amazon stock and so there was you know like the appreciation of stocks is crazy like if you just go look at a ten year chart at google you know you might have had a three hundred k salary but that was effectively you know a three million dollar salary when you look at it over the over the ten year period so it's pretty crazy tech companies have just accumulated so much wealth and the funny thing is this these numbers sound crazy like wow these people are sort of like almost over paid in a way but it's like actually like the company getting the best deal at on average you yeah because the company is creating way more value per person then they're giving out in comp which is hard to understand it that's a really a tough exercise to understand i i i've i still struggle with it i'm like how do you have three thousand people at this company you have to pay this much money forward it it's like well because it makes billions of dollars well yeah just think about it like between google facebook amazon apple these are four of the greatest wealth generating machines cash machines ever created right like these are trillion dollar companies multiple to apples like a two trillion dollar company or even more so it's like you know there's these are the greatest businesses in the created in history of earth so yeah you know like the the compensation is kind of outside and it's pretty crazy and it's hard to get in and even when you get in hard to move up but once you're there it's like a you know it is really kind of a golden ticket which is why it's funny like i quit you know like and a bunch of people quit and go do other stuff because at the end of the day just like it's not gonna move the needle that far for you right like if you can have an opportunity to feel like you're making a bigger impact or just have more fun on a day to day basis it's very tempting to to to go take that path and i see you know you see a lot of people do it there's by way there's a great blog post that i've read have you read this blog post it's called desperation induced focus no alright that's a really really good headline amazing headline right so this guy ravi gupta so he he was he was the coo of insta cart and now he's like at su sequoia like a partner there but he he wrote he wrote this blog post and i literally i was like damn this one of the best blogs i've i've read in maybe a year or two it's called desperation induced focus and he goes he goes people ask me about process all the time planning process performance review process is o okay ours and they think it's because i'm the coo i you know i a coo and my friends were coo and everybody wants to like improve their process and he goes you you know people sort of imagine me is like being in a room with gan charts all around me and then he goes i have nothing to gets processed but i think most startups are doing this way too early way too often and when i asked them i go why do you think you need this process the answer is usually some version of well this smart person at this bigger company told somebody me that they use this process and so we figured we should use it too you know we're we're just doing everything jan and like those big companies probably haven't all figured out hey it goes the lesson is as always big company suck it he goes you guys don't get me wrong is why i liked that he goes don't get wrong they didn't always suck at some point they were just like you a startup up that i was fighting for product market fit they was you know trying to trying to expand and trying to grow they were focused and everything they were trying to hire like trajectory changing people and they were they were giving them more of the responsible and then they even know what to do with it and they were working their ass off to create something out of nothing they had desperation induced focus but now things are different for that company most most big companies are no longer creating things out of nothing somebody else somewhere made the money making machine and everybody else sort of assumes it's was it'll just keep working and now that the money making machine part is taken care of they get the luxury of caring about you know a a small number of other things like planning processes performance reviews creating an never increasing number of checks and boxes or something even that that matters even less than those this lack of focus is a luxury and a disease i love that and then he goes he goes my advice to people who are thinking about putting in a process with said instead of the process go to this whiteboard if you could only get done one thing this year what would it be if the answer is put in a new process or alright i fine go for it but more likely they answer something like increased market share launch a product that doubles our our revenue or what blah blah that don't waste your time with anything else just take your best person which is either you the ceo whoever and make them responsible for that problem and give them everything they need to do it in reality process is not your problem lack of focus is is your problem peace time thinking complacency and then he talks about about his time at insta instagram and he gives us kind of an example of of when this happened he goes and and he he he gave one other thing that was he's like insta we had won a whiteboard with two words unit economics and he goes at that point once that became the singular desperate focus for us then we started comb through you know the p and l in different countries and finding ways to save sense per order it was awesome and finally we turned the unit economics around i love this blog blockbuster post what do you think of this it's is beautiful and i think that it's true beyond just process i've always said i think i said in this podcast i think what i would like to do is i like to burn bridges so you know a lot of people say like if you're gonna start a company maybe like work on it on the side and i'm always like no fuck that like i know it's not for everyone but like go all in and like it must work or you're going out of or you're going homeless like that type of like i i love that desperation i love back against the wall type of moves i think this is beautiful in his writing because i've i've been working on my copywriting his writing is really really good even his footnotes are are pretty funny look at the first footnote like it this is beautiful writing this guy's really good yeah exactly and then he goes he has another one he goes he ended the thing he goes the next time someone tries to tell you to do something because a big company says big company does it be suspicious don't let them infect your company with a thing that's slowly killing theirs this is beautiful yeah good i'm gonna meet up at this i emailed him so i emailed this guy right afterwards and i go i just sent me an email like i read this at two or three in the morning and i'm gonna read like when i sent him i just go i go wow the desperation induced focus blog post one of the best fucking hosts i've read this year i could give you a dozen examples you know my start startup up i've got bob by twitch a couple years ago that that proved this but you don't need to hear them because you know only somebody who knows who could write this blog post i'd love to meet you sometime i'm sean i live in the bay variable blah blog that i do okay i'm gonna go read some other blog posts on your site right now the bar high don't disappoint me what did he say hey was saying wow thank you i appreciate that we'd love to meet i'm over here you know let's let's hang out you go hanging out yeah there's like anyone who writes this i'm gonna get along with you i'm gonna get along with you we're gonna be thinking of thieves so it's just a matter of how much time we hang on what he do at sequoia i he's a partner or something like that he one he's a big deal yeah he's he's a big deal there he has another one about like where he goes into more detail about what they actually did it i think it was insta court to improve their stuff but i thought this was awesome and i also think that the you know the writing is awesome the lesson is awesome which is most of the time you think your process was broken it's that you don't have desperation induced focus on the main thing you haven't you you forgot that the main thing needs to be the main thing and you're better out you're better off just writing down what is the main thing on the whiteboard and it's saying cool who's the most capable person in our company you don't do anything else besides this and then letting them solve that problem and giving them everything that they need to do it and every day just talking to them about that one thing and don't talk to them about other shit don't don't drag their focus in ten different directions which is exactly what happens at big companies as your focus gets split in ten different directions you're you're doing three sixty peer reviews one week and then you're doing your team off site and then you're doing diversity and an inclusion that the the next week and then you're doing hiring and then you work a little bit on your plan on your project but then you have to write your plan and your budget for next year and then you come back to your project for a couple hours and then you get ping by this other person to do this other thing and like sure enough you know six weeks have gone by you've like haven't moved the ball forward on your main thing and the and the company doesn't penalize it because they don't care they don't know they don't care this guy i'm clicking around is a very good writer so his blog is r k g dot blog his writing is very very very good this guy's a clear thinker i can read his writing again and i understand his i understand how he thinks just from reading his writing ben you got the georgetown law shirt on what do you think of this i think it sounds genius by the way my wife went here not me so you know i don't i don't know how much credibility this gives me just a wife guy this sweatshirt already taught you how to how to rock the the harvard chair at the georgetown lodge actually i had this saturday yesterday i was walking in the neighborhood walking my dog and a lady in tesla sw over pulls over she goes did she go to harvard too and i i go so she goes harvard did you go there i'm her two old yeah i go i go yeah i was there in two thousand six love the campus and she goes i i know i i love i go i went there in two thousand six i i go i was there in two thousand six god i missed the campus she goes oh me too and the start talking green by yourself she goes i'm class of ninety four and i go oh no no i just bought the shirt and then she started cracking up and then she told me a story of the same thing she goes she goes this i go sorry to thank you out and she goes that's so funny you did that she goes my husband has the shirt that says like it says like some it's like some army in insignia it's like some shield and like whatever it's like some some army shirt because his brother or dad or something like that was in the army or something that has the shirt i think like his brother had given him the shirt and they're in the park and someone came right up to him and like stood and did like a salute and was like you know colonel devil lot and he's like oh shit he didn't know what to say because like the guy was really like paying him like serious respect so he just kind of rolled with it for a second and then the guy walked away and he felt super guilty afterwards he's like fuck i should have said something i don't know what know what i was doing why did i just like play into that dude were you buy yourself when you did this yeah i was by myself it's all hilarious i would not i typically not the mood learn by myself to pull a joke like that that's a good one that's a winner dude this the best because my shirt it also has like a hole in it so it looks like worn like this is like it doesn't look like the memorabilia it looks like you know my old call it's sweatshirt can i show you a business really quick so check out alright look at what i wrote under specialty license plate my friend dennis was showing me this so there's this website called my plate is it my plates my plates dot com can yeah alright thank you alright so basically you can do one of two things on this website the first thing is you can buy someone has purchased the website like zero zero one or like some funny phrase or something and you could do an auction to purchase the vanity plate but what this website does is they made a deal with the texas government and they guaranteed the texas government a certain amount of revenue so in order to get a vanity plate you've gotta spend fifty to a hundred dollars and my plate dot com makes it really easy to register and get that done and they go to the government said hey we promise you over the next three years we're gonna pay you twenty five million dollars in fee five years five years twenty five million that says sorry five years twenty five million dollars and the government goes alright fine deal you do that then what we'll keep making you the exclusive vendor of vanity license plates and as company did it and they're crushing it they've sold over half a million of these plates i read a recent article they still over half a million and if you assume on their page it said that prices range from a hundred to two hundred dollars that's like basically close to ten million dollars a year yeah so they're basically they're doubling up right so they they they had this guaranteed payout but then they probably have their own cost so i don't know how great of a business it is right have their own marketing costs and things like that but let's say they did forty million fifty million you know across that time they had to get pay out twenty five million total for the rights a still pretty pretty damn good for a business that has like by definition zero competition well in on linkedin i saw two employees that's it yeah beautiful this is very similar to what we talked about the trend of going to a school the guys who the tailgate guys who go to the school and say hey we wanna be your exclusive tailgate provider we'll pay you a guaranteed you get this flat thing and then let us charge what we wanna charge to to do like turnkey tailgate here and getting that kind of like exclusive partnership is very hard to do but once you do it your business is like so def def because you know obviously nobody else can get in yeah it's it's sick i came across as dennis showed me and i was like this is actually really badass ass this is kinda cool yeah that's cool i've been i've been looking into licensing recently have you ever licensed a product no but the only thing i know about it is our friend su who did it and he like told me how it worked and licensing is if you're the person who owns the license it's like it's amazing well yeah in this case that like these are non exclusive devices but i've been just learning how like you know like how does the disney licensing process work like but if you wanna put mickey mouse on something how does that work and it's like well you gotta like get in touch with them you know that's like you know hurdle one and there's brokers that'll do it or you could just get get them directly and then you basically are like i guarantee you this much and i'll give you whatever fifteen percent of all sales and you have kind of veto rights on on the design and all that you have to approve it before we sell anything the whole process takes kind of like a year but it's so powerful to be able to sell somebody something instead of from your brand that they've never heard of you know on a brand like lion king or something where they have like already an emotional attachment to it in this case like it said that the top sold licensed vanity license plate was twelfth man which is like the the nickname for the crowd at the ut at the long game and so you know if you're if you're a long fan which is like pretty popular in texas like you have that emotional connection to the team and so you're gonna get you know get that kind of benefit so i think licensing business are quite interesting in general that's interesting i i didn't really know much about it i remember sue like had some crazy story about how they did did a bunch of licensing stuff what are you trying to license brand you know any popular brand so for my e commerce store we're just trying to look at any kind of like popular brand that we think would do well on apparel so you know you can go to a sports team or you can go to you know like a big movie franchise star wars or whatever and turned it in you know that's how you get you know at costco like a you know some hoodie with star wars on it it's not it's not star wars making that hoodie it's some company that's pan star wars for the rights to make that hoodie what's what do you know about logan paul what do you want to talk about with him oh i can't tell this full story but i can tell a part of it so i met a founders today i'm gonna ask him for permission to tell his full story but the part of the story i thought that was amazing is just a little nugget so this guy was in college and i he wanted to start an commerce company and he's like okay i don't have any money for marketing so i need like you know maybe like an influencer to shout me out i think that would be cool this was back in maybe two thousand fifteen so this was like a a while back and so the founder was like alright in college was just know what to do and starts he's watching vine at the time and he notices that all the vine stars logan paul jake paul king batch you know like all these people he's like i feel like they all live like in the same place because they're all their doors look the same he's like looking at the door handles he's like what are the odds they all just have the same door handle he's like they probably live in one building that just has this door handle so he does say it was like an apartment building right so yeah so he finds the apartment building and he's like oh great he he's on the east coast he just moves to la moves into this apartment building like finds like whatever the cheapest apartment is in this building gets in moves in and he's like alright i'm here and he's like they're they're here i'm here and he started he's like alright how do i bump into them he's like okay they hang it they're like they go to the gym all day so he was like i started going to the gym like five hours a day he's like i'll just hang out there he's like first of all i got ripped which was awesome because i was just at the gym all day every day secondly i would just see logan i'd see jake i'd see king pat i just see these guys every day and then sure enough we you know became kinda like friendly and then we became sort of like friends and then he's like hey guys he's like you know have you guys ever thought about you know doing some merch and ended up doing like a merch run with logan paul and that kinda kick started his commerce business which is now doing doing quite well does you know millions of dollars a year so but yeah i just know that that was amazing amazing hustle story of like it's the they found the line between determined and creepy like creepy is like i'm hanging out in your driveway it's like god dude leave me alone like you know friend in the parking every day the difference between like creepy and not creepy is really if you could just make the recipient smile a little that's what i've noticed if you could make the recipient smile creeps out there well like it's kinda like when you're like wanting to flirt with someone it's like you could say two phrases the exact same words but with different emphasis on different words with a different tone of voice and if you could get the person to smile one's creepy one's not so like the you wanna do you wanna share what your pickup line was for your wife by the way is that story i think it is the perfect example yeah as a friend i recommend not to leave the story as a podcast so i am hoping you tell this story because it's hilarious there's nothing bad about in my opinion because like her family knows and like it weren't like we're married so it worked out but so i'm at i i was with my friend lily a a a a girlfriend of mine a a friend who's a woman and it helped the reason i say she is a woman is it helped me look a little more more disarming and i was with lily and this woman walked in the bar and i go lilly that woman's beautiful like i'm i can't let her like i gotta talk to you before i leave and what should i say to do and as i'm saying this to lily sarah my now wife walks by and i go hey what's the difference between a chick pee and a lint and she looks at me funny and she goes let go i don't pay four hundred dollars to have a lint on my face and she was like ben do you don't haven't asked it and i was like yeah classic classic hummus joke big fan of thomas jokes are you and we you began you're married and now we're married and if we basically like tell of like ten days after that so it worked out perfectly and so cruise my point that the difference between creepy and doc creepy is just get that laugh so kudos to this guy that was like we almost high risk maneuver ben's ben looks so i've never seen ben's so shook he's i as a man of georgetown law what do you have to say about this is he my wife is like a little boo she's like higher class than i am she's a classy lady that's what was gonna say she's class i wanna know how many times did you ever use that pickup line and how many times did it work i used it on tinder once or twice before and the there it was a good litmus test because if you didn't think that it was funny then we weren't gonna be a good match and also if you weren't quick enough to get it then i'm like oh man i don't know if we're gonna be a quick a good match either you so it was leads me to think that like the best pickup lines are not necessarily the ones that work the most they're the ones that are the best or filters yes exactly it's a perfect filter filter fill one if you don't think like a a dirty joke is if you think a dirty joke is not funny and then this isn't gonna work so that was the that was my reasoning sam sam you know ghetto country romeo sam like i was water romeo over here it's a crazy crazy joke out of nowhere when you told me that by the way i always one hundred percent sure you were lying because i was like there's no way that's a true story that's so that's a fake story it's a funny fake story but i was i was still happy with the fake funny fake story and then sarah was like she rolled her i was just was like yeah and then rolled her eyes i was like wait is that real like you say yes i'm telling you it works this is like classic copy i i would the the best thing that has helped me meet women because you you know like like a lot of computer door i'm i was just a nerd learning how to be a better copywriter taught me how to like grab people's attention get them interested make the desire the take action i'm telling you it was a classic copy yeah anyone listening go try that let us know how it goes go try that line but different tomorrow the difference between it working and it not working remember it is getting the recipient into smile i'm telling you that's like the key and and good smile not like not like you know like you want wanna say like wow not like wow you know what i mean alright what else we got you you wanna do it one of yours you have dha is amazing on here oh let's listen into this so da da is the founder of hubspot the cofounder we had him on the podcast he very likely just based off hubspot stock is a billionaire knowing dha she probably has like like he's made other investments that have i've made him a huge sum but i don't know and he basically when this app word came out he got obsessed with it or just make him a fan of it and he created a new game on its his own game where i believe i don't play word so i'm sure you've seen it because you play that game it's like basically is world or once a day thing yeah once day so da app is like once you're done with your daily world come practice and train on my world app it's a like a training word app right and it's really good have you seen it no i need that because every day i do the word and then i'm like not satisfied with the one minute you know like i need more of a break so then i go google word archive and i go to this boot leg site and i start playing an old world just to play a little bit more twitter look at this thing word play dot com i think that's it yeah it's it's just an amazing domain so basically here's why this is amazing to me is the he is not able to do this because he is a billionaire who has time he is a billionaire because he is doing things like this like constantly creating constantly learning he told me i think last year he was like my son wants to learn how to become a youtuber because all the kids are you know care about that so i'm gonna create a youtube page so i can learn and i could like you can teach you how to do is homework and he's doing a really good his youtube's is great and i saw that when mortal came out he came out with this thing and it's awesome and he basically coded it by himself like sometimes told dm yet at night so i know he's up at night on his computer and he's just like working on this stuff and this is why this guy's is amazing and why so successful is because he's prolific at making stuff even if it's a silly game but does the the passion that he brought to like a silly game i imagine is what he brought to building hubspot it's pretty amazing right it is amazing i'm playing the game right now so excuse me if i'm a little little off i need a word that's r you blank blank why are you blank blank why rub no runny can be rudd no anne what is it rudd no there's not are you d y but this is amazing right that he's able to do this he also when big cop came out i believe he one of the largest or most active part one of the more active participants on blake bi and i was why he goes well i'm sure if it's gonna work but i wanna just understand this technology so i know what's going on right yeah he's he's amazing he's a tinker in a hacker for sure which is like one of the highest kind of like predictor of success in my opinion is people that just scratch their own niche their tinker their hackers and they build cool stuff there's just founder far who's building this thing called build space right now which is cool company it's like helps web two engineers get into web three and like learn learn learn about web and then get a job and over the weekend and he's like you know he's raised money you know from and horror and others so it's like a serious business but over the weekend he posted this thing he's like alright check this out and he's like put this thirty second video up and he goes i bought this neurology device which basically i don't if ever seen this it's like a thing like see on my headphones are on my head right it's like yeah it measures your brain waves yeah and so and it could be coded again so he goes i i have this neurology device and i made it so that anytime i'm focusing i'm thinking hard about something it's attached to this motor on this hat with a little fan on top of the that like you know like goofy like you know whatever pi herman type pat and it's like this this thing should spin anytime time i'm thinking hard he's like so watch this he puts it on it's not spinning he goes okay i'm gonna do some math he plus two is four four plus four is eight eight plus eight to sixteen he starts going up and the the wheels starts spinning super fast as it gets to like a hundred twenty eight or whatever and i was like wow this is a is useless to be clear but it's also completely amazing and and so you know i give them credit someone made that i wouldn't bet against them yeah exactly it's like this person the they were just gonna shoot a bunch of shots on goal and they're eventually gonna get it the same thing happens on the marketing and in marketing side people wanna hire somebody who who's a marketer it's like oh yeah i ran you know i ran marc you know i was head of marketing at coinbase it's like dude there's probably fifteen people that say that they led marketing out coinbase base first of all then secondly like you know the things you needed to do today yeah the things you had to do there to make coinbase growth it's actually like coinbase already growing rapidly and you just helped kind of like you know you know soften up the edges whereas the person who's like yeah i made this website like this is guy who's or i love this guy i've try to hire him for milk road this guy rohan v if you go to his his twitter you'll see exactly what i'm talking about so r o h u n v v o r a so his thing is his thing is just i created bitcoin or shit dot com and bitcoin is dead dot l o l and so if you go look at those it's like bitcoin or shit dot com it's like it's a little mini website that just says if you bought bitcoin instead of stupid shit you'd have blank by now so you type in how much you spent on like you know whatever a tv that you bought and it's like you would have had this by now it's like shows you if you had invested in bitcoin instead how much would your money be worth dude this is the way to go and yeah this little site gets like a bunch of traffic because it kinda goes viral and it was simple and he just like worked with some you know random developer to make it or built in himself and he's built like ten of these types of projects you know you've only heard three of them and then guess what he got a job as the first growth guy at main street and drove like a shit ton of growth for main street because he was like scrappy as hell and was like oh cool i think i could figure out how to grow this thing just like i figured out like clever ways to make my little projects go somewhere and hiring people like this is like these people are much higher like live much higher likelihood to be like a trajectory changer for your company versus the person with a bunch of experience at a larger company who without a who never tinker or create stuff just for fun just to see what happens and actually gets these random hits when i was running up my company i would if i got an applicant from apple or facebook or google at first i would flip out i was be like i am so honored that a rocket scientist from facebook would want to apply at my company that alone i feel like validated my existence and i hired i'll try to be vague i hired from one of these huge companies it was horrible it was horrible we we it didn't work out and what i learned was like basically they just don't do anything like when you're at facebook i had a friend network worked at facebook and his job was basically to figure out what stickers to what stickers to make in order to put on a picture that gets people to upload more pictures right but they didn't actually do the work they had a team of like eighteen people and then they got approval and i'm like and i was like oh like so like do are you like skilled like what are you get like not gonna do anything i just like organize shit like i'm i can't do anything right and so i learned the hard way that it the it's not interesting yeah that's why when you interview people you have to be like you know okay cool so what what's the project you did there and like oh i did this project cool so talk with through where the idea for that project come from this other person okay cool so then you know explain to me maybe like the three different directions you could have gone with it and then which one you chose at why and they're like it's like oh you didn't think you just kinda did the first thing alright cool so you didn't actually weigh the options about which way to go and come up with three plans and pick the best one alright great cool so then when you wanted to do it you know what what what you do in the first kinda like i don't know ten days like i don't know because they don't think on talk short time timestamps about like how do we i get momentum how do we generate velocity and momentum and actually get the ball rolling it's like no we just like did it took a year i never considered it taking kinda like less than a here and you know so that was that i was like so how how'd you measure success well it was hard to measure for these reasons you know it's all it's it's too many variables question i yeah thank you for coming out yeah the question i ask is what tools do you use and if they tell me like well i just use like google slides and then i take a screenshot and i just drag it all over it like i'm like in but if you say that it's mostly like excel or database stuff like sql i'm like i i don't know if you can actually create i don't know if you could do it if they say that they use tools where i'm like i don't think that you i don't think that you can actually make something that a user sees then i don't know if this would be a good i asked them how their competitors are doing and not like what are your competitors good about it like so how much revenue or how many users do does this other company have is my my number one kinda like instant filter of how like minded we are and how like i it's a it it's an instant red flag for me when people don't know the numbers of their competitors because anybody who sufficiently motivated and told will know their competitors numbers within like a couple days of doing their project and and if you didn't think about that or you're like yeah i think they're doing well it's like oh you never thought to go figure out where they're at versus where you're at and yeah i can't stand that and i'm i'm sure there's people who are successful who don't do it that way but for me i'm instantly like this is one red flag it's not a disqualify but if i hear three more like this is it's a definite no go here to in terms of this person because i i just can't fathom how you would do something and not try to understand where the others are at in in numerical terms and not like just your opinion of of them i same page and i do that when i when i'm in when i in making investments i say how big a business do you think this and i name like the competitor and they're like well you know i'm not sure it's like dog i i know you're not sure i didn't ask you if you're sure i i just said like just like let's have a conversation with me about like i know you've researched us right and if they haven't research i'm like fuck man i don't know if you're gonna be in a hard to say i'm like are you sure it's hard to say or can i just go this site in this site triangulate basically within a very close approximation where they're at or you know that's just like a crazy thing to me when when people don't know that do you wanna answer a few questions i'll ask you a few questions your twitter ones yeah i'm i'll i'll i'll pull up your thing and i've got it up too i've i'll ask you one and you answer first and then i'll answer second and while your while each other's answering just scrolling find another one so this one's an easy one straightforward general question but tell me the percentage of your personal portfolio you know stocks crypto rolling fund real estate e com etcetera actually for this i don't know if you can include e commerce or any private businesses because that could be liquid right do liquid you could do liquid and i'll i'll i'll do it as well okay i don't have the numbers exactly in front of me for like updated i think i did this last two months ago three months ago maybe and crypto was like i i did it right before the crypto crash i think some of the numbers are gonna be a little different now i roughly have thirty to thirty to forty percent in stocks forty to fifty percent in crypto i own no real estate at the moment and i have very little cash i keep less than i don't know less than five percent maybe three or four percent i keep a very small amount of cash compared to most people that's also just because i i did a bunch of start up deals where i invested personal money into startups and things like that so that that that took some cash and put it into ill liquid startups and then their startups which i didn't say that's kind of the remainder so of liquid liquid money that's that's where i put it the business of the e commerce business that kinda like your paper net worth i don't count that i don't yeah i don't count any i don't count anything in net worth from businesses that are not exiting or yeah that are not at not exited yet so it looks like i'm at eighty five percent equity public equities and and bonds of which that eighty five percent it's basically ninety percent equities and that includes airbnb and hubspot and then i own ten percent in real estate and then i have three point five percent i call it private equity so that's basically angel investments that i consider it they've marked up and they're like profitable and like relatively safe so i like and i put a discount on it and then i have like five percent ish of crypto okay and i guess the follow up to that is do you like your allocation or you wish she was different it is really painful right now it's painful i i've lost a fair amount of net worth in the past three months right i if there's anything i wish it was more real estate but i don't regret not doing real estate yeah do you do do you do you have regrets no you know yeah basically my my stock holdings are heavily biased towards tech and my which has gotten slaughtered you know over the past i don't know x number of months six months something or something like that and then crypto is also taken a dive recently but my basis is quite low so you know definitely still up on all of it and then i forgot start up to private equity that's a good one to bundle together that's probably like ten ten ish percent of it at least yeah i think it's fine i i like i like my allocation maybe i i think i think i probably should get out of some stocks and go more into crypto if i'm honest wow that's crazy i got i got one for you alright go ahead question this one comes from dylan dylan asks how do you negotiate the value of the company you're selling so how did you come up with the price how did you get to a price with with your company when you sold it i made a huge mistake i made a classic mistake i said the number first i said these companies typically sell for blank x and blank x and of course the first they asked you like what's your what what are your expectations or what's a brain what what do you what price would you be happy with what are they how do they ask it i don't even know if they asked it but i said oh you know how i was i said like look like it's i'm not i said i'm not gonna mess around like so these companies typically sell for blank to blank so if you're in the market let me know and the first offer was the low number of that and and last offer was it the high number or somewhere in the middle and then well so it was in the middle but like the thing is is that when we sold the company the hubspot stock was three hundred and fifty dollars and basically a week later it was like you could look it up it was like five hundred and fifty dollars and then like three months after that it was like eight hundred and fifty dollars right so like it it the the sale price was one thing but it pretty much changed quickly but it was like right in the middle of that number but i made a huge mistake i should not have done that and at as soon as i said that i was like fuck fuck fuck and you say later an email did i say it an email i think you said i think i don't know it sound like the story you're sending you saying you said it in an email i don't remember no i think i said it on the phone and this the woman who are now friends with who was doing the deal fucking lash onto to that like a shark and she pulled and i knew it and afterwards i i i've friends with there now she doesn't even work at i outside and i'm like you you got me of that she's like yeah like you said the number yeah the great thing to do is after you negotiate a deal go talk to the person once you're bunch your pals and you're on the same team say look we're on the same team for sure but man negotiating that was so you know confusing for me what did i do poorly you know like what would you have what what do you think you would have gone up to make me hate myself what what would you what do you think you could have gone up to and you just ask a bunch of questions try to su out what got them interested what made them hesitant how they figured out the value what they were willing to negotiate to what mistakes you made in negotiation because you get so few reps at negotiating it's important to do that but it sounds like to answer dylan question you did two things you said first you looked up comparable so you found out comparable sales so that's how you've got a range and then you made the fuck up in your actual extra negotiation of that range to fit to like you you you actually said the the proper range and probably cost me it it cost me many millions of dollars right it's like that one decision you made actually was more important than like the previous two years of operating probably yeah a bunch don't like ninety about yeah how did you do it we i did not say a number right away i fucked up in one regard which was i let my emotions so when we so the way we decided to sell was there was nobody coming and knocking on our door saying you we need to buy you you're the best we we we're we wanna be in the business of you i was basically frankly i saw the writing on the wall for my business i was like okay i think this is not zero but it's not gonna be huge what do i wanna do do i wanna ride out a middle of the pack like small like medium sized outcome for the next five years or can i just go flip this thing now and i decided i wanna go flip this thing now i was also really tired because i had been doing i've been trying to find product market fit with different startups in our ideal lab for like six years i was ready for a change in general and so i told my investor my c founder i said hey i wanna sell this thing i think it's time and they were like okay if you wanna sell then let's sell and i said alright let me let me run a process i'm gonna try to sell this in the next forty five days so first that was good because i time boxed it but i also you know like it added a lot of pressure and so the mistake i made when i was figuring out how how to sell i was i let my emotions of the day dictate how i sold how how hard i sold the company so what does that mean at first i super confident they're gonna wanna buy it so i went to two two or three companies with my super like swag out like cocky cocky like pitch basically which was sort of like yeah everybody wants us but like you know so if you guys are interested you know you you basically like you gotta let us know because this is moving fast with you know these other people so you we we got approached we're interested we might go that path you're either gonna get on the train now or you're gonna miss it so i was like kinda cocky confident that was like working but then like two days would go by where like somebody you know they didn't text me back or they said they were gonna review the thing and email me and they didn't email me then i started to i have doubt creep into my head a little bit so then i would like kinda like it's like a booty call i'd like desperation reach out to some other company and so one of them was i reached out to facebook through somebody i know and i was sort of like hey like you know we're gonna sell this thing i i use the word aqua hire which it was like the wrong word to say because aqua hire means a specific range of what outcome you're gonna get it basically means don't value my company just value my talent and i shouldn't have done that i should not have said that there i was luckily able to recover because it was such a big company that by the time he made the intro to the person who made the intro i had like changed the narrative completely but the third guy i was yeah you guys looking at i was like i don't where the fuck you at that no and that's like i literally had sent an email and you know with myself saying that but i would luckily was able to change it and actually they they came in with the hot facebook i came in with the highest offer and so we so ended up recovering from that mistake but that could have been critically bad we wish you would have taken in the facebook offer no like the amazon offer ended up working out great but you know whatever it it was a good deal in the end i guess but but that was the main thing and i didn't have a comparable i didn't have comparable really i i kinda the comparable i heard were such a huge range but i was like okay i just need to forget i heard any of those numbers because it's too wide of a range it just means like it depends and so then i started negotiating i didn't say the number first and we waited till we got offers they tried to get a number out of us but i was like not gonna do it and i was anchoring in other ways besides saying the specific number i was like leaving little hints or kind of just like you know just making sure they knew that we had other interests and eventually once we got one offer i was like okay that's a ballpark and then i basically just texted the ceo of twitch and i was like hey i'm gonna take this other offer unless you can match and he's like you know give me some time let me give give me a i was i don't have he's like give me an hour and was like okay i'll give you the hour and and then he came back with an offer that wasn't quite a match but it was good enough for where i said okay all other factors considered we think this is the best because they were gonna take more of our team and other stuff that the other one wasn't gonna do what well it's such a stressful period yeah it's such a stressful period yeah nobody teaches you how to do this and it's like the most important thing you'll do as the ceo of your company is land the plane but it's like being a pilot and you learned everything about takeoff and and flight you've never heard anyone mention how the fuck is supposed to land and so you're like just kind of pointing downwards and you're trying to land the thing based on like instinct and then like a few fuzzy messages you get from mentors or you use like if you use an investment bank it's different but we were not at that size you gotta be doing like fifty million to a hundred million minimum in your sale price to be to be to have a banker who does it for you dude i had this roommate named james and like he was like a a stone pot head and like like the first day of work had his new job he went and he had a teacher that said i hart weed it just really big i love weed instead if i lived new york eva he he was negotiating a salary for a company v jack's company that i introduced him to and he'd been on unemployed for ten months and he'd been struggling to find a company that he wanted to work at and i think he was using like his mom's credit card to pay the bills because i would get like his statements and like so i thought like maybe things were going south for him i'm like i know if you have much money left i don't know how you're gonna pay rent and v made him an offer for like a hundred ninety thousand dollars to be an engineer at their company and he told me and he goes are you to are you gonna take it and he like exhale weed and he was like i don't know man i'm not sure it's worth my time i was like went a little bit and he i was like james are you kidding me dude i'm like you don't have any money you've been interviewing talking it goes for ten months you're screwed he goes yeah let's make him sweat and i get a phone call from the recruiter who i introduced him to and think he goes dude james is like hot engineer right now like i don't know if gonna be able to land him like he's just bargaining so hard and i don't think we're were to get this guy and i was like i put the phone down and i go james do you hear what they're fucking saying you better come to agreements through it and i go well you know just get him what he wants like who knows get him what he wants you yeah you he's just gotta lay up and i hung up and they ended up upping his offer and he negotiated from a place of having nothing and he didn't care at all and i learned from him that day that that's actually a really good place to negotiate from long as you're willing to accept these horrible consequences yeah i gotta actually say that that was the most useful thing like how we sold our company was i was totally okay if nobody bought it because i was kind of excited about just ending it and going and doing something completely different like i was kind of like a man in that i was like okay free if i got zero millions out of this have i got zero dollars i'm actually kind of excited about that path too so i was like pretty free in that way whereas as i think you had a real business that was producing real revenues and profits you didn't have that option of like not a good like you know not getting a good offer you needed i felt that way though where i was like i'm done i'm out i think i like i just i need to get out of here so i i felt the the same way as you and i'll i'll learn a little bit differently how to run things so you don't get burnt out alright last question what someone oh we'll ask two more the first one how many twitter someone asks how many twitter notifications do you get a day oh i have no idea i turn my off it says like way twitter works it just says twenty plus or like a hundred plus or something like that and it's just oh wait like anytime i go to twitter it's twenty plus on the little bell which is the max yeah and then when they go to the thing it says like a hundred plus people have followed or something like that so it's not even useful because and it's very addictive because you can just always go it's like a thing to refresh that's always gonna show you something like literally like within two minutes of itself it'll it'll show you something new which is crazy i turned my off my off so in order to see what people are saying about me i've gotta search my name but i had to i turned it off because i don't even wanna know well you're talking about the phone the phone like notifications you're talking about no but you can no like literally when i log in to twitter i only see a notification if someone i followed sent me a message or dm me or or mention to me that's correct if a random person yeah a random person mentions me i don't ever i never know are the only reason i ever find out for example did you know that graham stefan that got that youtuber we like he talked about us on his podcast alex from mo was on it and in the beginning he goes i wanna give a shout out to my first millions it's like i love this pod i i saw you on that when i watching the whole thing and it was i watched it a bunch of times and i only found out about it because i went dm me it where he was tagging us or something like that and i had no idea that's dope i gave ben my twitter like account login and so he goes in there and he'll just be like hey these five interesting people follow you this guy is the founder of that that brand we like this person is high up at this company and so he just kinda manually he just gets curious so he likes to see it or he'll go into my dms or any any product we like he'll go dm them as me and he'll just be like y you're thinking it like name of name of your thing dope love it and then they'll reply and then like i only see the once the replies it's like a conversation has been started then i'll take it over but that was the it was like the best feature of twitter is like just give ben your account and let him like let me get that you know it's it's because it's a good resource it's just mentally exhausting for me to like try to keep up with a last question who's a bigger asshole in real life and why is it sean this is question from you no and someone didn't someone say that from sham over there yeah okay yeah i am i think i am actually the bigger asshole i think you i think you would come across as a bigger asshole but you're actually a nicer human than i am then i say like your verbal style could could brush like ruffle feathers faster than mine would but your actual intent i think is very pure and i would say more pure than mine almost well no i think i think that you are better at being selfish because you're more comfortable i definitely wanna be selfish and say no to all this type of shit but you're i think you're a little bit more comfortable with confrontation then i am so oftentimes i come off as nicer even though i don't think that's exactly what i wanna be doing what's what's an asshole thing you you did this week let's make a time well someone just now was knocking gonna on the door it was the cleaning lady at the hotel and like she knocked like a bunch of times and i just ran over there i was like hey can you please go away i'm right in the middle of something and i just closed the door so i get really mad like i get mad with incompetence so like if i'm like if i go to a restaurant and there's like a menu that's like taped scotch taped to like the mirror or something or like to like the glass i'm like hey what are guys doing man want don't us guys to just get like a nice area like like pick some pride like i'll say stuff like that i get really mad at that that makes me angry and i'm like hey just so you know like if you like this stuff makes me not trust you so that's like an asshole thing that'll i'll do what else when people dm me their ideas i just say like yeah send it to me when it's live like i don't wanna hear about your idea so i i i get short tempered with maybe like people just like not taking their job seriously yeah that's good do you want me to ask you another one i have i have one here's the lay up how do you vet your ideas there are so many ideas out there what would you do if you're starting from scratch plug your thing wait what do you the idea is in boot your idea of boot camp that's what this is right you're glued the idea boot so when when i i mean and sean research like crazy he he you used the word sean triangulate we do that like like a mo so i created a course on about that if you go to m dot com you'll see it although i'm not even taking people anymore so we had a hundred and fifty people sign up i'm afraid to i'm not letting more people and i'm really nervous i wanna nail it right were you are you were you nervous ahead of your i'm scared i i'm might have staged right i thought about that the first time and i said i was gonna cap it i think i did end up capping it but i capped it at double what i was comfortable doing what what did you cap it at i think the first one was two hundred something people this is so this just crossed a hundred thousand dollars it's it's a hundred and fifty people times six hundred ninety nine whatever that is yeah i think that's like a hundred grand and like i'm scared i'm like a legitimately nervous it it's gonna be either way whether there's a hundred fifty people there are two hundred people you're not gonna notice the difference between that like if you had only thirty people yeah you would have a different vibe once you get to a hundred fifty two hundred is no different two hundred fifty is no different i think once you get to like five hundred or a thousand now would again start to feel different because it's just nameless face list people that are like they know that you can possibly keep track of everything but do you feel like you're giving how much was your did yours cost nine nine fifty bucks oh my god doesn't that intimidate you i also did the same you're doing now which is i under priced the first cohort so i priced the first one a half off because i was like look if you're my true fan you wanna take this first one site on scene and i'm telling you my first run is not gonna be my best run i'm gonna give it to you half price fill up these seats and let's do this and so i gave the first one a half price and then since then i know i don't do any discounts now nothing like that it's just full price but when you skip like i just have like dude do you know your shit yeah that's it you know you're as soon as you do your first pass you're gonna be like you're just gonna be effortlessly spitting off these like things because you've been doing them for a long time like it's not like you're teaching material you don't know you're teaching the thing you know really really well and as soon as you start you're gonna say something that's obvious to you and people in the chat i'd be like like i always tell i right i say right i tease something i go your job when you're here for an hour you're here to get one golden nugget a golden nugget is an insight that you can take it you can go and you can actually act on that's like a kind of a game changer for you and so when you're listening if it if one comes up for you just in the chat so i know what the golden nuggets are for you and other people can get excited about them too because you're kind of like grabbing this insight that's coming out of they're coming out of my mouth and so now like i'm seven minutes into one thing and people are like golden nugget and they have one and you just see people in the chat saying this and it's like then you're like oh yeah i didn't even realize so that part is so second nature to me that wasn't even my that's not even my a stuff my a stuff is coming thirty minutes later into this thing but you weren't nervous the first time i wasn't nervous but i did feel a responsibility to do well that's why i thought was like i'm gonna make more money do another stuff but for some reason the fact that someone's paying me just for knowledge like then i'm gonna give you fucking i need to make sure that i'm giving you fire knowledge but i'm not nervous isn't in the right word it's just i took it really seriously to to to like i was like i'm gonna over deliver whatever they think it is i'm gonna over deliver it so i like spent more time on my stuff to make sure it was really good i think there's a world where i'm not sure right now you've got a bigger twitter audience for than than i do so i'll say for sure and you have an email audience i don't have one anymore there's a world where this becomes a half a million to one million dollar a year stream for you is is that crazy that's the current world yeah the question is do we try to get do k do you think it could be above one one million a lot for doing i mean that's that's a know is if i teach it often like to do to do a million you basically need to teach it five times a year so if i taught five times year the question is am i gonna exhaust my existing audience of like the people who are in my audience who cared about want to improve this part of their life and are i'm willing to pay for a course and can afford it and all that good stuff i think i'll run out m like no you won't run out like it'll you'll keep growing your audience and trust me like this is only two hundred fifty people out of time that are joining this thing so think about your total audience size and think about two fifty it's a very small percentage that's not people are the page the i think that's a flawed way of looking at it not the he's wrong or right but the right way is how many people saw it and didn't sign up you know like how many people will come to your landing how many qualified people come to your landing that's a lot because like if i send an email to my list about something i'm doing it'll get like thousands of clicks tens like won't close to ten thousand clicks and so ten thousand people will go look at the page to decide if it's for them or not so i don't know we'll see what happens this year i'm gonna teach it more times and if it runs out it runs out no problem like i'm kind of excited to teach something else i wanna teach a crypto thing so that's like my the main thing is i teach this writing anything right now it's good but i'm like itching to teach a crypto thing instead because that's where i'm more interested right now and where i'm learning a bunch and i wanna share a bunch of things in fact that's the question that i was gonna ask you which is some this guy clay says if you could invest anything for sam with his money that he would not feel comfortable with that first not like at first but it would ultimately thank you later for what would it be and vice versa so i know what my answer for you would be so well you say and i'll think about so what i would do for you it would be in the crypto space but it would not be something super high risk so what i would do is have you ever heard of a stable coin called us t mh tara luna any of these words sound familiar yeah well you you told me about luna yeah so basically what i would do is i would buy a stable coin so i take let's so say a hundred thousand dollars and i'd buy you a hundred thousand dollars of a stable coin which is gonna be sort of like by definition worth the same amount it's not a highly volatile asset and there's a protocol called the anchor protocol and basically you could put your money in there and you can get nineteen percent a year fixed and so i would get you a nineteen percent a year return fixed and you would be like okay this is great so i don't have to worry about the price of the the stable going going up and down and i'm getting nineteen percent returns that was way better than my index funds it's even better than maybe this real estate project once you count all the time and effort i to put into it i gotta get a nineteen percent on a just for my dollars basically and i would take nineteen percent any day that so you love that you so i think you'd would be comfortable with the idea once it explain as i just did think you'd be uncomfortable i said hey sam go figure this out because you'd be like fuck okay where do even get this thing i gotta sign up for this other thing i gotta move it to a wallet i'm kinda scared i'm gonna lose it is this legit i am i get really gonna get nineteen percent where does the nineteen percent come from there's all these questions and so the thing i would do i was just do that for you and then you would just see your number going up and you'd be like this is great isn't there there's not a way where i can just click buttons and like wire money and it works oh yes it's all click a buddy button buttons wire money just how many buttons and and you are you comfortable with your product are you comfortable with where you're wiring the money to right like that's the the question you have to have the confidence that by money i'm actually gonna go my money is gonna be mine i'm gonna get nineteen percent like that's the trick with crypto is navigating you know sort of a little bit of a minefield of knowing which buttons to click and then doing it in a way that you feel confident with alright well thank you and maybe i'll do that and then i'll wrap up with my answer for you i think it would be do you own a squat rack no i would love for you to own a squat rack and to hire a coach and teach you how to squat properly so you can lift heavyweight i think that i think that i think that or build you like a really nice home gym for like four gram i think that would be i what are the benefits so why do i care about lifting heavyweights weights real what are what are what what am i gonna get out of this because it just seems to me like that's cool if that's your your hobby or your ego thing but like you're really care if i could squat two hundred seventy five pounds or five hundred pounds whatever does does it really matter the number doesn't matter the number is irrelevant because the effort that i the when i say heavy i want you to be able to do an exercise where you can only lift the weights five times and on the sixth time you wouldn't be able to do it gotcha so failure it doesn't matter what what the number is it just because i think that when you squat heavy i think a a couple of things happen first it releases chemicals i'm i'm not a doctor but like it releases hormones and chemicals in your body that impact the rest of your body not just your butt legs number two you i gain a ton of confidence when i have that weight on my back and i could do it properly and i feel free and i feel like i've overcome some adversity and it makes me feel really good and like a mini high so i would say those are like two biggest things and three i do think that being able to put some weight on your back and squat really low and stand up is just an all around really good for your joints and everything like that i'm not saying like hundreds and hundreds and i don't necessarily think that getting like huge is the best way to go but like being able to squat like maybe your body weight or a little bit above your body weight is really good dude we got one great question that we should have answered because i i don't know what i know what my answer would be liam goes what's your fast liam goes what's a physical feat you could bust sam's ass and i goes sam what's one way that you're much more charismatic than sean embrace the debate and then it's a picture of kanye west holding a note notepad that's says i'm here to stir shit up i'm just here to search you would bust my ass in basketball i think oh yeah that's true yeah that's true i don't think i could i'm i just i just don't i've like not chu basketball in like ten years i think you you'd take my ass and basketball yeah i'm good at basketball and then or probably golf you could you like golf no but i'm good at basketball the so this all we'll stick with that one i don't need two one one was enough one one was enough for me and then this charismatic i feel like you're already you know more charismatic or as charismatic so don't feel like it's a fair question really i i'm willing to admit i think you're on fire the i think you've had a good year a good two years i can't i think you really compliment by sam no no no here's why i no i i'm thank you hear more because like since i've known you for like the last eight years you've told me you wanted to be an actor or you wanted to and you used to be an actor as a kid or you want it to be a stand up comedian so i think you studied this trade a lot and i studied i studied a medium amount and you study it a lot amount and i think you're also natural at it so that i would say that you you care more not in the sense of like it's good or bad care but you you you're fascinated by this craft a little bit more but i am also fascinated yeah i love speak i love public speaking i love content i love comedy i love all that stuff alright we're done ben what you think of the episode great stuff just one last question is did you ever figure out what the word was sean oh no i still have an open i forgot do you know what what would we got here no i just guess rugby i think is my best guess oh rugby that's gotta be it damn perfect let me see rugby i would have not got that boom because i did i was going through my head r u g what what could go after of that rug no rugby no rugby wow got it alright i thought it was really good episode that's why you got the georgetown that's why you got the georgetown diploma and i don't that kind of that level of analysis good episode you don't get that just anywhere i feel like i could rule to word i know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a day's off on a travel never looking back