The Unusual Story Of Death Row Records Co-Founder Harry-O

you told me by age twenty six you had eleven different businesses you said around the in your early or mid twenties you were producing broadway shows that you were like in the mix at a very early early age how how did that kinda come to be and and what were those eleven businesses alright man we're live we we we always just kinda hop to things but on the pod today you we have michael harris but do you like to go by harry or michael what do you like to go by well people call me you know people didn't know me by harry call me harry call me oh or michael whatever works so i'll kinda set this up but but basically i'll tell you i i i've i've read a lot about you and i've read about a lot of the work that you've done the way that we got connected was we have a mutual friend named chris who has this has this thing called the last mile which helps people when they get out of prison helps them get jobs at tech companies and he's been bragging about you because i told him you you you you can't see it now because i i red but on my wall i used to have a picture of tu pack and dr and easy e because i loved n and i loved like the rebellious culture of of people who created cool stuff and he goes hey you know i know the guy who is part you know part brains behind all that and i go what who and he said who you you know he said your name i go oh i've read all about him and he goes well i i he's my he's my buddy so that's kinda how that's kinda how we connected and so i thought today we can kinda talk a little bit about your story so people can learn about you but then also we can talk a little bit about business and kind of the stuff that you went through so you where are you from los angeles for me side of a los angeles this california but you you told me by age twenty six you had eleven different businesses you said around that in your early or mid twenties you were producing broadway shows that you where like in the mix at a very early early age how how did that kinda come to be and and what were those eleven businesses well i used to be i used to i used to in limo first business i had was a limo service that was quite profitable and also i had a construction company i had production companies i had music companies i had salons like beauty salons i had real estate investment companies so i was just kinda like all over the place and i i also produced not just concerts in place but also i supported clubs in the city how big was the the the limo business i had pretty i had a i had about thirty thirty cars and so but there was luxury limo they were auto scratches at the time it was pretty pretty impressive this this loud car that we had what type of monthly revenue kind of limo business make man it know depends i stayed pretty booked i i spent a lot of time advertising so a lot of times i would have beyond the cars that i possess i would have people calling me and so a lot of the services that surrounding me didn't have business and so i would form them i would form out the rest of the business that i didn't have the capacity to serve so a lot of times i would provide opportunities for the other car services that didn't advertise as much as i did so maybe somebody needed a hundred cars and only had thirty i could provide them with the hundred because i would par it out to what they call farm out to the other companies which you get fifty percent of the service that is conducted i can fill right right would you actually get half you get half of what it is because you're the one who initiated to sale what how old were you and how old are were you when you had a limo company that had thirty thirty cars probably maybe twenty three years old how an earth does that happen what age did you start working well i you know as a young i start working i used to work at it i mean likely places to learn business structure when i was a kid i mean like i'm to my like before he went to join hospital i worked at a shu s parlor and and and that that's shu s parlor it was in my neighborhood but it was two shu shine parlor it was one on one end of the corner and one was on the other end of the corner what i was able to learn from that experience as a twelve thirteen year old kid or eleven twelve thirteen year old kid is competition and how business was rent and and these two guys competed with each other but they also hired you know kids from neighborhood to work at these shu parlor and we competed with each other and so i learned a lot about business from that practice in that process but i also learned i used to listen a lot you know a lot of people come in different from different walks of life it could be preacher and business owners people from the street and you would just you know why you're shine at shoes you're listening at a young age and you're hearing different hearing about different opportunities in how people approach business differently and so i was always like a sponge at a young age but you know friends and also learn i never judge a book by his cover like sometimes the guy might pull up and and being in a nice car and and you're you're like people is you know trying to get that customer and this guy comes in may may only have one or two pair shoes and may not even be a tip but then a guy pulls up in a station wagon a regular car and he even might have thirty cars and you know thirty shoes in there and also it's a big tip so it just just learning how to read people and you know just the whole competitive thing that was amongst us as you youth to compete and you know be at our best drafts you know represent and and you know honing in on our skill so i try to learn something from everything i always did as a kid like how do i use this moving forward you know what is it what's the lesson than you know learned here you know so that was that was and my mother also on the a a restaurant in the neighborhood and i watched how she navigated that and how she would how she handled her customers and how she worked with her staff and you know actually remember before she bought that business when she used to work for the people that she bought it from how she you know raised rose up in that in in terms of management and then acquired that business and so just watching people be effective in business at a young age had a profound effect on me and you end up kinda getting in trouble which i'll let you tell a story in your twenties but before that how how big was your empire in terms of employees at its peak it probably had about a hundred and fifty employees and can you reveal like how much revenue like this whole the the whole empire was bringing in well was i was making millions and dollars i mean you know it's thirty five to thirty six years ago so i don't remember exact i mean that builds up though what do you what did you do at your money okay i always invested in in real estate in real estate so you're not not public equities you like real estate in europe so you're buying real estate at what your neighborhood yeah well yeah all over in in in where i could find a deal known to buy you know like a rehab properties as well as no luxury properties and business outlets i would i would purchase it how many you own how many how many buildings probably thirty or forty buildings damn you still own them yeah i own what i for a long time by it i mean that adds up that adds up i i just started purchasing some stuff about three years ago and i'm like if i just do get one or two every single year i mean these definitely add up and you you bought it at a good time i bet oh yeah it was it was you know i was in a position about by by different type of properties that came into my preview so but the thing that your most famous for is the entertainment stuff when did you what led you to entertainment wasn't the plays at first no one of one of my first well i said limo was one of my first major business but i had up i had opened up a a it went in that building and i was telling you about that was on fifty fourth from i opened up a studio and we created a company it was i believe it was called the jin factory and what i would do is make commercials for local businesses and so with the local radio stations and so like care jail k each and the ka and and so that that brought me around musicians so you know i would have people sing hooks and make certain mel for it to go with you know certain businesses that give it a certain aesthetic and so a a lot of producers and singers would come into the studio and i kinda just kinda drifted off into that world so managing groups and working with different record labels and production companies and at the same time as my limo in girl was growing i work with a lot of production companies as well and audits would use my services so just being in that circle connected me to that world and so for different reasons i got involved in the music business was there anyone that is that i would know of that you started working with like really earlier on around that time the was it called the jingle factory yeah the jingle factory was mace commercial it it was commercial based like that you know we did commercials in the city so basically that yeah i did demo own jingle for my service as well so no that was non celebrity that was just commercial but at the same time i started working with il motel i started working with at the time more time was pretty high in the city so i was working with moto time behind the scenes that lot and then how did that kinda go into the production companies well i i created a production call why not production and i just felt like during that time it was hard for people that look like me to to really get a stronghold hold in the city so i decided to create own production company so and i would you know be available to help produce artists that didn't have the financial wherewithal to be able to do it themselves and and somebody brought me a play opportunity and i never i never was involved in plays into that moment and i just thought it was just a a real creative space for people who were you know in the movie business but didn't have work at the time but could hone in on a craft and also provided entertainment in the community and a lot of people may not have been used to experiencing the plays and so they gave me an opportunity to bring that kind of containment to my community so was very excited i got to meet some some pre pretty heavy hit i can let i at doing an opportunity i at a paul west i'm at finesse williams i'm at richard lawson i'm at a ruby d i mean a freeman i mean i could just go out a list there's a number of people who work with me on this up production i work with a guy named woody king he's out of new york those the director and ron mil was happened to be the the author of this particular play called check mate and i was able to take it to various cities and ultimately got it to broadway with the ned landers on forty six in broadway my life came crashing down right before we actually limestone stone broadway we was on broadway but i didn't get the market and promoted the way i normally do i like to market and promote the projects i'm involved with and so what does that mean you you basically that you know someone came to you and they go hey man i got this idea for this play i got here's my vision yada yada here's what i think could be the outcome and you're like alright cool i'll put up a hundred k i'm half owner and i'll help make connections you're gonna do a lot of the day to day work i'll oversee and i'll make some connections and or were you more hands on like what's that look like okay like when you talk about like when i was talking you about all my investments is consistent like i would like to come into the the management aspect of it what that does though helps me understand the business okay i may have management skills what i mean not i have a an insight on that particular business so part of that that that that relationship that merging of that relationship you need to teach me everything you know about what you do and then i you know compile that with my management skills and then we can you know move on to the next level but that was part of what i would do you know i would come in and decide if this is something i wanna invest in and i would become the managing partner but also i i wanna learn everything that everybody here knows so that i could be effective in that position so that's that's usually the real i always took what's it like working with and and by the way at this point you're still in your twenties yes and you were working with some up and coming people but you're definitely probably working with some established people what did they think about this guy they say this i mean you you got this tough guy persona now i bet you had that same persona back then you know you could be in you you you can be intimidating imagine they're they're like know those tough guy well goodness this i i'm saying that's my opinion and if i had a do business with you i'd be like don't wanna make this guy mad and so if you're in your twenties and like who this young black guy from he's talking about living in la now is wanting to be out here in new york putting on these plays like who it who this guy think he is like we're we're where did you deal with a bunch of like i always respect other people's territory know no matter what business you're in and when i i always deal with people respectfully you know i mean that may it's the persona of the perception of me and then it's the reality of me and so the reality is that always was straight up you know so it you there may be that tension there may be that consideration before they get to know me but then once they get to the oh gosh you know he's up he's on a strap up one on you know keep it real you know you know it wasn't not you know i just stick that i don't know probably later on when the death deferral stuff happened i just think people con complete everybody's attitude as one and you know we all were different you know we all came from different vantage points to help create that and i just think that sometimes people don't pull back and say you know who are the individuals that was a part of that entity and that's a that's a different that that will bring about a different perception once people got to know who you are you know i come from pretty tough neighborhood i i don't i won't argue that and i think that you have to be pretty strong to survive it and especially with certain businesses that i was in as a youth you had to be pretty strong to survive it and a lot of things i did at my younger youth i'm not really proud of especially now today after being away for thirty three years and and you know going through that experience and reflecting your back on on my quick rise of heavy fall you know but at the same time i always start to stay positive and and trying to see what that journey had to offer so you said the plays the play didn't work out because your life can crash down what's that mean right when we went through the the pre broadway and got ready to you know open full full scale i was arrested at a sent prison what were the charges i was i was arrested for one for a attempted murder and to later for drug conspiracy and the the later the drug the attempted murder was i was just exon at the end after thirty after i twenty three years but you know i knew i was innocent and i think that made me take it you know lightly and i didn't really i kept working while i was out on bail not thinking that this would the results that happened would happen i thought i was you know i would be vin and knife was upside down what were were you guilty of the drug charges yeah i used to be involved in drugs and so i was also even though i had got out of jug business you know get pulled back in based on some previous phone calls i had got out went deal you know that's they call that karma you know you have to pay the piper and when i when you google your name one of the first thing comes up it's just interview did you did i forget the publication but the article said at one point you're doing something i think it said close to a million dollars a day in drug sales is that true think it said two was it two million a day yeah i think it said too i'm not proud of that so what what's the story of that it was hard work i mean you know what i mean the thing is even and that's coke i guess yes it was cocaine yeah and i think that like i was saying before whatever i put myself to in the bad difference it was it was like i put myself to it you know and then it was like only after watching the repercussions throughout my community and communities across the country that i realized that you know what was making me rich was also making me poor and spirit and in a culture you know was helping to destroy my own community and so you so i don't really take a lot of joy and talking about amount of money i made in that business even though i was engaged and i was i was pretty focused in that business when i was young and misguided in that business venture but got a lot of time to reflect and i bet that's confusing because whenever you know i start something and it starts working on working out i get it's like a dopamine rush you know just seeing the sales come in i mean it's exciting you know like it's fun in your case it's even though people were getting hurt it's definitely exhilarating and it is exciting and even if you're using the money to invest in cool stuff that helps your community it's still and it hurts people it's still exciting i mean i bet that's still an exhilarating adventurous life and and you gotta understand so at at a young age you know this you you gotta see it's gotta put everything in this proper context you know like i'm growing up people selling we you know there's no it's no harm you know it's like and then this thing is introduced to the community and and it's just the next level from selling marijuana or whatever it is and you x say you know you evolve and all you see is the dollars you know what you're making the transactions you know really because everybody was you know you smell weed next day you get up you go to work and do what you do you don't really know you had no previous insight on what this could could become and so it's just like okay this person is behind and you selling it it's in your community it's available that's it that's all you see and then when you see later on when you see that this is not like marijuana this is something else and it's changing the the it's just changing the whole makeup of the community you know people are just not themselves no more and i was like whoa you know especially if you're conscious person and you was raised in a good you know family setting and now you out here hustling and you hustling in a way that other people that have become vulnerable to this particular drug which i never used so i didn't know i didn't know what it felt like but you know it's people that i cared about later i would see them fall victim to it and you know that's that karma i'm talking my it comes back to you you know i was like wow well this is what i'm doing and and so yeah i mean money it was exciting it was the adventurous it was it was enterprise but then it also had that side that you you can't ignore and then you got what was your sentence for thirty three years and that was mostly the attempted murder or the that's that's that was not my sentence i had twenty five of life and on top of that i had a twenty year since for the fellow us with the fed's damn what's that feel like it was hearing that it's unbelievable but but it's real like the the the the criminal system is real i mean it's it's like a lot of people i think conversations like the one we have and should be had more i think people just see the gl and glamour of a particular lifestyle and and the fact that a lot of us have very little patience because some of us living in conditions that unbearable and so you just wanna get out however you gotta get out and so you don't realize that the patience that that you need that you can exercise that you should exercise could save you a lifetime of misery and so it's you know in hindsight you can see you know i can reverse you know so i i believe i should be a conduit for that i believe i should be able to talk to people that are poised to make some of the same useful mistakes that i made thinking that it's gonna solve the problem when it creates multiple problems and it affects your family in the community in ways that you can't even imagine when you were so you started death row or you're and i wanna hear about that while in prison after you went in yes how on earth does that work well you know i'm i'm pricing what you be to tell you i mean where you were be say what you well what's it wait i mean when you're just sit there you have a visitor or your right letters you're doing phone calls and and someone comes you and be like came in you wanna start a record label i mean i don't even know i mean how long were you in in there before you you kinda got this idea or or how'd that happened when i got told i was involved in different aspects of the entertainment business already so it's kinda like i was already been by the bug what happened was i don't know if i should tell you this part of maybe you should wait till the movie come out but maybe you know maybe maybe you and already heard some aspects of this but it's just you know i was i i just still had all this energy inside of me that i wanted to do something i didn't want i didn't want my sins to be the end of me and you know i just i just couldn't stop you know i'm a kinda guy it only slept three hours a day and and and like i said ran eleven businesses how do you go to prison sit there and then be okay with that you know it's just not what it is so you always you're trying to find something outside of your environment that allows you to stay alive in spite of your circumstances in spite of your symptoms that has been posed you just you know you're still youthful and you're still you still wanna have an impact because like i said when you deal with the totality of a person and you see that there was more good and bad in that person that's that's what you're trying to get back to you know what i'm saying like like sometime like i could say just trying to find a cool place in hell you know for all the bad things that i did you know praying that god can you know forgive me for that at the same time being able to give someone back to my community that they can use instead of something they should use so what's that creation story look like who who contacted i mean i i don't i i told you i read what which but well ruthless is it is that what the book's called ruthless is that by jerry heller so i have that yeah so roof was before different right right right right so def is the if you say if you will the next iteration of ruthless because one of the main components of ru was doctor dr and doctor dr was the producer of the music that the that mostly was produced by n mostly all the music that was released at the was produced by doctor dr and so n was a group in doctor dr was a part of that but he also was the engine that made it run but i don't think that easy rest in peace and jerry heller also is understood what understood dr value to the point where it shouldn't have been overlooked and so that opened up an opportunity for him to be disgruntled and for sure knight who who actually be began to manage doctor dr after managing an august by the name of dlc who introduced should to doctor dr and then i was introduced should shortly after and that's how that relationship came he was managing doctor dr and doc and we created a company first we created a godfather entertainment and then out of that burst ad and so then it came up that name i came over with godfather entertainment and and based on my situation know i was actually housed on death row and san quentin yes san quentin for i was sentenced the death i was housed there for a short period of time and i was able witness this young people younger and myself at the time being sentenced to death road and i just you i was profoundly affected by that and i thought that you so you hear different versions of out the name because it used to be deaf deaf like def wrote and then we decided to call it def which that's the company set up records and you had you i work with a my attorney at the time that was working with me on my appeal david kin was also part of that partnership that helped assemble that company for me while i was behind bars and you guys i mean you didn't necessarily you didn't even shape the genre you created it a little bit you know you had poc snoop who else was on there i mean it's it's the people who realized death didn't have a large roster just had effective one and also my ex wife lydia she was also a part of the management team that helped facilitate the company in the beginning so to answer your question it it's like the moment the world her snoop dogg and doctor dr voice together it was it was a game changer you know it was a you know a warranty was a part of a group with snoop two one three and his relationship with doctor dr facilitated snoop dogg coming into the full and dlc working went snoop and helping him you know up his game in the rap game and doctor dr looking to create another star and that relationship forged together just it's just made magic but there was other members other producers and other artists that was on a label female like rays and dior or the dog pound there was there was there was just a lot of synergy there you know and they all come from different walks of life and and they just was that time you know some things was just time you know the energy pot came later but he brought something that fire with him too and it just put death in history book like no other label because a lot of people don't really understand that death road was the the little too true trade that would you know it just it's connected dots to so many different companies that a lot of people don't even realize that and what i mean from universal to increasing that distribution because of a relationship with that fraud and in scope and warner of brothers are almost getting out of the music business because the way they misha their relationship with ef and in scope i'm just saying it's it's so many different aspects to ne existence that most people don't even ponder they're too busy with the negative side of in the drama that some of the people that was involved participated there but they don't think about the enterprise nature of that organization which is what my focus is is like what it what was this original attempt and what did they do in the in the business world that most people don't talk about isn't the narrative has been focused narrow it's been been been moved to a narrow focus and hopefully i'll be able to expand that no there's no dogg working together each snoop we acquired def and with apartments i'm a coo of the new death that i helped create thirty seven years ago so it's exciting see how it turn out what's crazy is you've been around all these people and you actually saw them when they were young you talked about all these interesting people den dr snoop what what are some of these young guys have in common you think they're kinda because they're not just like successful business people they're culture changing people they changed america they they changed the world what what what attributes did they have a common you know what i'm saying well then this just back of like like seeing dan as the young dan and seeing him now he's still is consistent in his character you know as certain roles he won't play is it's and and it's the way that he approaches the craft that attracted me to that project check made in the first place he was he was just always a cons professional you know it's just he never hang out you know he just did what he did and he took off but i just watched him and i watched his work ethic and and in his projection in the films that he do for people that look like myself we're proud you know he makes you proud he makes you proud and it's not enough of that in our culture to have people who can represent you know just in this craft you know just a strong focus intriguing individual you know instead of like usually use the word intimidating like towards me earlier you know it's like sometimes that could be off putting for people and it and it kills opportunity because people see the book i remember my earlier i talked about judging a book bias cover and not really taking the time you know to connect to that individual but then z has been really great with that with the roles that is played so it's my honor pleasure that they had known man and to norm him now that he's he's a cons professional even today he he's always you know thinking about his thoughts when he when he when he does a a particular project at n and death role is different now it it it had this and by the way when i said intimidating in part i'm a i'm part i'm intimidated because you've got this cool demeanor i asked you earlier said if you ever say something that you don't want the pod just let me know and you said i don't say things i don't mean to say like you just you got this clint east just like i'm like i just you've got this cool about you that is is intimidating is what i met and i'm intimidated by your assess well i appreciate the clarification yeah because you know i'm glad you said that no and i appreciate that aspect of it yeah i no i just you know i just think about my thoughts and so that's why i don't worry i and i i appreciate you you you're saying that to me or early on but i'm i'm using con and if i said it i meant to say and all that's what i mean you're very intentional and and that can be intimidating to people when i get nervous when there if there's silence or i'm nervous i'll say shit that i don't even mean to say you know what i mean yeah and you don't you you don't seem to have that attribute i'm been in some pretty sticky situations and you gotta say what you mean mean with you say it could it could turn out real ugly you know if you you know if you don't understand your surroundings and you know you gotta speak to your audience you know whatever audience may be in in real life i mean life you know every day or just in this type of setting you know like you never know who could a benefit from our conversation today or or hesitate on something about to do and say hey you know what that's some wisdom now let me let me connect to that here's a person that they've been through it and and experienced it on different levels and he might have something to say you know so thinking about i'm thinking about setting up me podcast you know so you told my chest ass sometime i'm being in your rearview mirror for a second then be i have a feeling you're gonna only be in the rearview mirror for a second but what were you saying about and i think you said n i forget who you said you're right be they they were different in a in a way that they provided an opportunity for us to speak that some people don't like what we said but it was different you know it was like you had a certain box that you know back americans and and not just back american hispanics and you know different national that are sometimes regulated to a you know a box and so you don't really get to hear but through this mechanism called music called hip hop call rap call some people called against the rap you know i just called a reality rap you know whatever that reality was in our community being able to speak to it you know what i'm saying like becoming your own cnn or or fox news you know you can say this is what's happening good bad or difference but this is what's happening in our community and they were able to communicate that and so my intentions was to elevate but at the same time this thing takes on a life of his own and so and then you get involved in then it becomes a business and then you have executives and producers who start to see your world even different from how you see it so later it was altered but in the in the beginning it was fresh and raw and uncut you know so you people gets mirroring in to a community that they knew little about and so that in that aspect the the rappers the the music business was able to oak share shed light on those communities in a way that it hasn't been shed and especially when it came to police brutality you know a lot of the injustice that was taking place in those communities it just it just became a profitable vehicle that allowed us to talk about things in cold or in you know do lyrics that normally you wouldn't even have access at doing so what's the first song that you heard that you thought oh death this i'm on something well it it it it's it's like i got to hear a lot of it before it came out so it wasn't i mean i i got to hear the whole album the chronic before it came up and so but the first when i heard the first song that was done on deep cover soundtrack the single that snoop and dr did and i was prison in a lot of guys was they they weren't really paying attention to them really to that happened yet because they all was and other groups that was out at the time and so mca all these guys that were out you know and then we had other local orders tat tea and miss max of spade and iced tea and all these different guys were not doing they solo careers as well but once they heard that song on radio a one a seven on undercover cop and they heard that mel sound come from snoop in those pumping beats from dr it was game over it was game over you know and i was like wow you know because you know i had tried to let them listen to it before that and they they didn't went then once this and i got a line around the corner they went had tape now and then it's been like that every since you know and i watched i was able to you know stray and snoop them perform at the super bowl and i was able you know attend practices and it was just watching them at work and flashing back to what happened so many years ago and just to see them become top notch in that game because we took it from an independent type of setting with ru in a n and def was able to submerge itself into the majors and and become a major player which changed the game for a lot of rappers that are quite successful today so they were was it was it mostly on tapes or cd it was tapes still when it when it first started tapes they then it went to cds yeah how much was a cassette then so the the the chronic came out at ninety two what what year did you go away i went away in eighty eight okay so you're in there for four years by the time the chronic comes out how much is a cassette than you think cds in the late nineties were like eighteen dollars what's eighteen to twenty three dollars yeah so that so so you talking about nine dollars for cassette something and then some of this yes i didn't i didn't realize how fast this happened so i just i'm looking at the scott i'm looking at death rose work so the first album was the chronic right that sold like three million pretty quickly then it was doggy style with with snoop that sold close to seven million like pretty fast yes then it's all eyes on me by park pack and then another two pack one i mean i didn't realize i didn't realize how fast you came out the gate yeah it changed the game and just all of a sudden it made people go crazy too so you know like money just make your bigger way where who you are so you know it's like a lot of lot of things changed you know so you're you're on on a ten dollar cassette tape how much does death row get like thirty or forty percent three or four dollars on ten dollars yeah about that's about right man it's sound bad damn man i mean what's it feel like to be prison and seeing all that money coming in and you're not able to enjoy been better if i was on the streets i'd tell you that but at the same time it was good to see legal activity taking place to make that kind of money i come from where was some people not that you had to but we felt that we had to do what we had to do to get what we had to get and to be able to see a legitimate venture do so well and and those opportunities become available to me and so many other people that's what i kinda locked in too like we we can go legit you know and and basically figuring out creative ways they they figured out creative ways to tell stories that that could capture the masses and i just thought that was such a creative even now when i when i'm around snoop or and i see him do things so effortlessly like he just it's just like it's nothing to him you know it's like all these years he could still remember lyrics that he did thirty years ago i could just compose it seconds ago and even being around doctor jay and being in this home studio or watching him and his team you know conduct full orchestra it's like what happened here you know like and they still are coming with music and they're still working with young people and they're still open and it's like it's no like i hear no i'm done i hear none of that it's just like every day and just to be in those environments and and just you know being recognized by those individuals at somebody that had a integral part and what they did an amendment stupid more than most a pretty connected when it come to that you guys took off right out the gate with that throw but it almost seemed like unfortunately you kinda went away as fast as you came i mean your work state forever but the entity kinda went south after only like a handful of years or you know was well it's back to management again you know yeah what would you what what would you have done differently managing and with sugar with sugar good manager well i just say this about shit you know i think i think she was already creative and and he was in the right place at the right time and and he was able to connect the right people and so in the beginning shoot to me could have been one of our biggest entrepreneurs had not imp you know it he i know him you know man i just sit with him i used should talk with it so i know side of sure that most people don't know and and we considered ourselves brothers at one time you know it was a close by and to see him on arrival and and to pull away from these opportunity that was surrounding him it's just a tragedy you know because i know a different should and and so but yeah it went away for a little while but it's back right back and it's strong and people are looking at it different and so i have nothing negative to say about anybody because i just think that's wasted energy i just think we all did what we did and sometimes yeah i can be wrong about certain things the next person could be wrong about certain things it's just how you know it's it's how you deal with the present you know and and how and and it can definitely be seen differently with the new generation and so we're about to see at at my at my last i started my last company when i was about twenty five years old and we grew we had dozens of employees and the average age at one point was like twenty three twenty four twenty five and i was the adult in the room i don't drink i don't party i don't do any drugs i'm completely sober but a lot of my people would and it was a creative business and whenever they would start drinking and stuff i would always have to put someone in charge and i'd be like hey gotta get out here i wanna be around this and like managing young people particularly in a party environment and particularly creative that's a challenge you had to like give them the lanes to stay within and let them be free within those lanes and from an outside perspective you dealt with that times ten you know they weren't just drinking and you know making bad decisions at the bar some you know snoop got he was in trouble for there was some some some more stuff that was happening and and all those guys had issues what's that like managing creative wide while guys but you it's called putting out the fires but you know as you spoke about snoopy he was designer range for that case too so yeah yeah and i'm not saying he did didn't they i'm just saying the that's hard managing i imagine it was challenging managing creative people who also had a wild or sometimes would be in a circle of of getting in trouble regardless if they did it or not what what well in that and that's particular in music or any creative i just think that you have to take people where they are you know and so what happens is if you take away if you take away something it takes away something and so we all get to elevate in life and so who you were and what you came from in the condition that the way you were condition to see the world all of that had something to do with the way that mu was made and so i'm not justifying behavior any kind i'm just saying that you start where you start and if you look at what you're talking about about some the conduct that different individuals participated in early on and you look at them now you know these guys are philanthropist philanthropist they they they have charities they have foundations they have they they they changed they help and motivate mentor other people in their careers so yeah yeah that role was all of that and that's what made it excited and that was the energy that it possessed and but it grew and some people blur and some people didn't and some people went up and some people went down and it's just it's you know you tell out a shakespeare and play i mean there's no other you know it's just you know a lot of people lost their lives and careers and and a lot of people became quite wealthy as well so it's this a combination of it all you know so the story is still being told do you think that that creating death row is is that the the thing you're most proud of career wise well my career is not over sir and so so far so far far i just think that it's the most impactful good bad like i said good bad it's i can go somewhere and you know people from all over the world recognize the brand and and and i and you'll be surprised people from high up in different parts of this society classes society has told me that when they were in college or whatever they were doing that that music did i listen to it at all i know every word to california love to hit them up i mean i know all these words i i grew up in missouri as a you know as a twelve year old white kid of missouri i don't relate i mean i don't experience what they experience but like there was a rebellious side me i wanna stick it to the man i wanna i like what i loved about poc in particular here's one of my heroes i love that he accomplished so much what hell was i think he died in september of what ninety six yeah he he he was he was twenty five he was a young guy and he had he had an art full side to him you know these old interviews when he's eighteen nineteen when he's talking about i think jada smith or and talking about like you see the love that he has for this woman he's being art and he's talking about like brenda had a baby these songs are like real issues but then he also got he got charged with rape and he also was you know the whole hit him up thing and with with all these other guys he was fighting and i what i love about him is that he was a flawed character who was mostly good and he redeemed himself like he would screw up and then he he was like he was a rich character and i was drawn at that i'm like i got flaws you know i had substance and abuse issues and i overcame him and i did all this stuff and i was drawn by people who screwed up and overcame and then maybe screwed up again and overcame and had this rebellious bowl part it and that's why i was drawn to it even though i can't relate anything to selling drugs or to well i any of that with even some of those charges like you know with o'clock without here to defend or a revisit the case where we know that a lot of times you have to go out to people that surround you as as much as you go out the food that you digest and sometimes you could be a big big name person and other people around you could do something that you get it because you're the you're you're the easy victim you know you don't want with the big paycheck or you don't want with the big name and sometimes you you suffer the consequences other people that you allow in your circle so it's important to always be conscious of that because a lot of times mia he was rebellious as he fought back he fought against he was raised he was conditioned to do so but at the same time a lot of times things were put on him that really didn't have to do with it but at a young age to young at a at a real young age when you have the spotlight i mean he was famous since he was really young and i had tell that he was famous talented talent he was very talented and like you said we all flo and and so it's just with human beings and and when you go back and you look at the age if you look at somebody that's twenty five years aging now and you're be like wow this kid accomplished this month and he was able to have this type of mindset and and was able to be able to translate that into the music i mean come on i mean this is just and and everybody that worked with him always tell me everybody he was a cons professional you know i hey you know we got a push we gotta make this happen and you know he you know it was something else and and he was prolific he had all those albums at such a young age he was prolific so i i identified with those characters even though on paper there wasn't a lot that i could relate to but i i identified with their maybe not identified but i admired them i was like dude guys at young age ages changing cultures and i think it was that's interesting it is it's funny you saying it because my thing is i think it's i think it's infectious i i think the sound the energy was infectious so you didn't have to actually come from that particular culture to to really identify it's just it it met you where you was it provide you with some energy that helped you do whatever you were trying to do it was i think it's more about the energy that it possessed you know like people you know who gary v is gary van vaynerchuk right is it you know peep i watch him sometimes to get when i'm having a bad day and then but when i was younger it was i would listen to hit him up or something it's like you know what i'm saying like it it gave me it gave me fuel to to get back on track and so i thought it i mean i i just love that stuff i also that's why i like startups i like people who are just nerds playing on the computer and they they create bitcoin or you know what i'm saying like they create someone that sticks it to the man and even though they're just you know in silicon valley in an office whereas you guys were down there and and right in music it's like it's still kind of a rebellious energy of us versus the world that i i think is infectious i i think there's quite relatable the lot of the internet tech entrepreneurs that that whole you know creating something on nothing i think it's relatable for people in the help our business you know creating something that was was meant for a particular circle that went outside the circle and and and affected the world and so same way with these young enterprise engineers who create something that we all use like the phones and the different apps and and now that whole world is merging and trying to find this place so it's quite interesting and to see how it all falls out you know a lot of big companies have been this displaced because of the internet and they'll know how to find a place and it allows for new merging creative minds to take its place so i'm excited about what the future holds i have a lot of takeaways from talking to you it's just like i think that a lot of entrepreneurs like myself i'm real emotional you know like you're into the arts and build businesses my art and people who are sometimes artistic i go up and down i get real sad times i get real happy you know i'm not calm like you are all the time i'm trying to work on my calm just to be a little more steady you know you're you experienced a lot harder stuff than i have and you have remained you have this cool attitude i said it's like clint would and so i think you kind of inspired me to be calmer or well i think with me in particular you know i was in a situation where was quite volatile and i had a conversation with god and and i felt that i reached an understand it and and and and at one point i said if i never go home from here and i never live another day just the fact that i know who the creator was and and i was thankful for what it god has done for us as to and what we had to do to even be born and so the miracle of our birth and how important that is to to live up to that and so you can't help but to become once you know that each person is is considered a medical it's this for you to live up to it and that and that's another thing you got a good attitude you got a really good attitude it makes me i i get call being around you and i feel more optimistic and i also you know i've always been fascinated by these people who are little mysterious there's a little there's always a little more behind that you don't even know and they're always got something up their sleeve some good story or some cool experience that they've had and i get that vibe from unit inspires me a little bit i think it's cool i also think you know last night the grammy were on and i think it was they had the they did like the fifty years of hip hop and the ghetto boys were on singing one of their songs right they got the they had this one line where they go real gangster don't flex nuts because they know they got them and that's that's kinda how i feel about you is when you're when you're you know when you're like the guy you don't kinda say you're the guy yeah yeah you yeah you are who you are in and and trust me when you're in situations like i been in you know it's it's you know you're gonna raise you gonna rise to the top or you're gonna fall to the bottom you know it's just you know and it it was weird being there and being away and like i said especially your early on it was really dangerous but i come from a certain type of community and i conducted myself a certain kind way and i was able to get through it without a scar and then later on it'd be able to be there when chris and other people like chris and his wife beverly was able to create programs where people could really engage and and and and recognize real change in themselves so i don't see it go from you know when you katie you don't know if you're gonna live the next day to a man it's gotta get the prepared for the outside world also so you know so and i'm glad chris introduced us last mile is a very progressive program that teach people how to cold while they in and also prepare them for job opportunities when they get out in the tech world so oh man i appreciate you doing this this is awesome where i you have an instagram is that where people is that where you connect with people most well yeah the what official har did you see it the official har i think that's what it was it looks like it was you posted yeah yeah michael har harris the official har on instagram i mean you have forty one thousand followers it here it looks like a picture of you on a private jet or some type of sprinter van well don't know what you're doing smoking and of vape no know smoke a vape it's a vapor rally but yeah you know that's that's the official instagram but why i let i'll let you know when i set up the podcast i could talk to you all day yeah i i like getting to know you better because i wanna ask you all these stories but i wanna be respectful you know yeah because i look up to you so much but there's so many stories that you have that you know you could talk for hours and hours and hours i'm sure well long as it's an exchange like i said i'm gonna be set up to be able to invite you on my show and i wanna ask you about some of the enterprise things that you've done and i gonna be a open book for you to be able to ask me different questions that come up and and different things that we're gonna be involved in a lot of things that we're we're going to launch this year i can't speak about it as yet in film projects as well but next time we talk some of it to be came to fruition and we'd be able to talk about it i and i got stories too it just every story you have divided by ten and that might be as exciting as my stories but i could you're not gonna feed that i actually i'm getting into the podcast world because of what you do and and and people like yourself in a way you bring insight to to the business world so i'm looking forward to being in that language alright alright i appreciate man you're awesome thank you i look up you thanks for doing appreciate you thank you for the opportunity