The Secret Founders Of +$1,000,000,000 Brands

so here here's some quotes i'd like to read you okay on blowing a hundred million dollars quote it happens thanks when you talk about blowing a hundred million i know cats that blue double that the second response continues it can happen to anyone which got turn i don't think you could have it anyone i feel like got rude wear i know i could be what i want to from at all in in like a days off on a go alright what's up we got a fun episode here so we're gonna do we're gonna play a little game and the game is that sam i want me and you to go back and forth kinda like we do when we hang out if we were just back in the day when we both used to drink it drink a beer or too and we would just try to entertain each other sort of one up each other with stories and i'll tell you a story a business story that i think is pretty juicy you tell me a visitor story that you think is pretty juicy and we're gonna see who we're gonna we're gonna measure these you know to see who can tell the j backstory behind celebrity brands i texted you last night i go celebrity brands but not the celebrity part the juicy backstory and that's all we said to each other like for example we don't use this one but what's the kylie cosmetics kendall what's the name kylie jenner kylie jenner she has this lipstick company that does hundreds of millions in revenue she's obviously not the one like running the show she had a partner with someone she a number two a behind the scenes person we're gonna talk all about behind the scenes people who is that number to how did they make this come about how do they get the celebrity partnership what made it work versus many others that failed who are these sharks that are that are behind the scenes who's the number two we're go i dare say we're going number two today and we're doing live with all of you alright sounds gonna and we we we'll we rake it from ra to grape with the wine being a ten out of ten grippy nine out ten i don't actually know what's the between stages of raisin in grape but is it juicy like a prune like a raisin like a grape or is it straight wine that's how juicy this is juicy juice boxes that's how that's how good these can be alright so dude i i have a i have a low juicy story i wanted to ask you or ask you your opinion about before we get into the go for this listen this weekend i went to miami for this hampton thing we went like lots of diving it was awesome i was stayed at a very fancy hotel i'm not gonna name the hotel yet because i wanna see wait which at the end of the story i was working out you know those cable machines like it's like cable machines where used that rod like use the rod like change the weights at the bottom and you know how there's like a two point five pound weight that's usually at the top that's like adjustable yeah i i was fixing the weight and the machine was broken apparently i didn't notice it it was broken and that two point rod that two point five pound weight fell on my finger i have got my finger looks like a great can you see that is all purple yeah i could see alright the question is is what type of pet court do we go to about this is this just like is this just like a free stay like i get my money back is it like i want my money back plus like another free stay well you you have to find a way to talk where you're waving that like you gotta change your gestures so like you gotta have like this obama style just just particular you know motions when you're talking because you need to see the manager the the manager needs to see the finger and the finger i mean you're not we're not trying to waive it in their face it's just you just need to do one of those where you point at it you're like what what i supposed do about this i mean yeah i need something for this this is happened this is off your property sure dude yeah look like if i go to a fancy hotel i expect a fancy gym right not like when the screws come out of the freaking equipment so my finger looks and great right now right it's like you know it's one of those injuries that isn't you don't do anything with the broken figure right you do nothing but god damn it hurts this is like read limp to game seven of the nba finals from tunnel and the crowd goes crazy they said no it's not possible he couldn't possibly be playing with that injury that's how people playing this podcast today should feel about your ability to to per you know persevere through that injury i'm a blogger bro i'm a i'm a tweet i tweet and also i can't exercise now for a week and that's why i make a living is with my seven out of ten body yeah that's how it cat feels when they lose some of their lives so anyway maybe i'll have an update to the story maybe i'll get a free stay to blank hotel name but i we'll see if i can persevere with this this aching finger but i think we i think we could do it you wanna go for your best okay so there's this woman named emma agreed do you know that name no emma agreed first of all destined to be famous with the name like that emma agreed greed like greed like money greed yeah but it's g r e d e says a little bit like got her own got her own spin on it so she is the business shark behind a bunch of the kardashian brands so she was a founding partner in skim the multi billion dollar shape wear brand for kim kardashian her husband is the ceo of that by the way so the the couple is behind us the next one is she c founded good american the the jeans brand that's massive that probably does three hundred million a year revenue so you know with khloe kardashian so she that's how she broke into that and then with chris jenner she goes to the mom and she c found safely a plant based cleaning product brand with her and chrissy t and so this woman she's so impressive if you've ever seen it her a lot of people now have seen her because i think she's on shark tank this season so if you like are into that form of like you know entertainment you've you've seen her she's so she's super polished so she's she's this woman who's half black half white super good looking british accent and an absolute savage in terms of business this is what i've gathered from watching a bunch of interviews of hers by the way did you see the recent rays for skim i think skim raised two hundred million dollars at a three billion dollars that yeah and she owns she owned eight percent of that i don't know after dilution what she owns but she owned eight percent of so her stake skim loan is basically a multi hundred million dollar stake forget about good american where she was like you know it was her idea she was the the kind of the the ceo she's the she's the operator behind that so here's you wanna hear her story it's yeah it's pretty good so she's she's daughter of a single mom which is the start of every great entrepreneurial story by the way second thing she she basically is like a hustle which she's young she's got a paper route she's like working at a deli she's just working all kinds of like blue collar jobs and she's like okay you know what i wanna make it in fashion and so she goes to the london college of fashion and she's fourteen fifteen years old she's already like intern at gucci she's like hustling selling her way into like these like low level internships at fashion brands and she drops out because she's like dude i'm hustling on the weekends and after school like these fashion shows or in my internship i'm networking with all these people i feel like i'm learning way more and building a way more valuable asset which is my network outside of school and am inside school so she drops out and she starts working for a couple of like she works for like a a a runway company and then she starts her own agency she's like oh okay here's what gonna do i'm gonna create this agency called it she's twenty six years old i think at the time and she's like she'd been hustling in the fashion industry so now she's got connected so she's like hey let me just be a dot connector and so she's like i'm gonna connect all these fashion brands wanna do collab with influencers and celebrities and i'll create an agency that does that for them so oak you know the way she kinda got her break was calvin mc klein wants to do a campaign for their new launch of whatever the new thing is she sources seventy different models and influencers for them signs all the contracts one of those people is kendall jenner to do that deal she meets chris jenner and so she becomes somewhat friendly like they've done a couple of campaigns the together she's booked her out she has a little bit of respect so here's what she does then she's like okay this model of connecting like using kind of celebrity influencers is working for these brands but they kind of do it in a ina way it's like only like when when you need the when you need them to promote x product they show up and then they disappear she's like no i think we should have a story and a celebrity at the beginning of these brands and so she has this idea for good american a denim brand that is i don't know if you're how familiar you are with it but it's basically like their thing is it's kinda like all sizes it's sort of like body positive early on and she was like you know we're gonna have we're gonna carry like from size zero in a size whatever like twenty fours i imagine that pitch to one of the kardashians so it works like she's like i don't but look here's here's what they chloe she's like what i mean well chloe you might wanna stand for second yeah yeah like i i know you have to send one of those things like i'm not racist but it's like yeah i'm trying to be offensive but you're the perfect fit for this brand i don't know which one is chloe but they're all like obviously fit it's skinny but i she maybe she's like she's the one that kinda to win down and waited she was like at first she was like the big the bigger one of the sisters and she like had these like sisters were like you know size zero that was in insecurity and she got super super skinny but then she like kind of you know and that natural what people's weight questions so imagine that accusations with like weight watchers like one of these brands comes to you you know what i mean or like what i'm honored you know how jamie consultant you jamie lee curtis is the spokesperson for that yogurt company that makes you poop regularly what's like yeah i don't know what what's fun or it's it's like a a yogurt that like elderly people are supposed to eat so it makes them go bathroom and like on a regular basis like a obsession like looks we're gonna call it oops i crack my pants and we we want you to be the face of it you know what i mean weird money's well what who cares i i don't care you there's no problem with this the so she pitches kris jenner she goes chris i bumped she bumped her fast she's like i got an idea for a brand and she was expecting like look i know you guys get hundreds of offers but she's like i've already seen how much of a hustle you are she's like i observed the way you operate like i already kinda like kind of c sign this you should just meet with chloe directly see if chloe likes it if she likes it you already already has my blessing so she meets with chloe closing in and they basically start this brand brand has scaled up now into the hundreds of millions it's one of the the the fastest growing denim brands and jeans brands from there she then approaches kim and she's like kim we should do a shape wear brand and her husband who's also in the fashion industry became the the kind of the the day to day person because she was busy with good american but they together create skim which becomes a multi billion dollar shape wear brand then she does this one with with her with with the mom as well and so i i just found this fascinating what this family is doing so they basically have a hold coke the gl family what's the the gl fam greed family or so james reed and i'm agreed so they basically have a hold coke called popular ventures or some a popular culture or something like that like he also did brady the clothing brand with tom brady so they're spinning up these fashion and and and consumer product brands with a plus celebrities called and they've built they're on the forbes list now these guys have a like you know four hundred fifth five hundred million dollar net worth just c founding these with with the kardashian family and with you know tom and whatnot so impressive to have pulled that off behind the scenes and what's frame they have another one called frame is that that's the fashion brand that the husband started they sell like three hundred dollar t shirts i i i don't get but like you know have you seen what they look like husband and wife couple it's hard to like them because they're michelle good looking they're like perfect yeah like they're so good looking they're both they both look like it i was definitely reading it and i was like yeah but they probably don't have a good relationship was like i trying to find some crap i was like my cholesterol issues you never know nobody's got it all yeah yeah but the this guy probably broke both fingers not even just one yeah they they're pretty perfect like these guys look like i influencers themselves and so alright so where do you put where do you rank on the juice scale emma and jen's greed from prune to wine it's in the middle so they're incredibly impressive this is amazing that they do this it's what's even more amazing is that like so john rockefeller had this famous phrase where he would when he was trying to buy other companies he was like look you should you should join my oil company i make so much money and they're like no you can't make he goes look i know i make money i make money in ways that you can't even dream about you have no idea how much money i make and that's exactly what the kardashians are like look this good america that's just this little thing i even heard of that makes hundreds of millions of dollars that's amazing but there's no drama here so i'm gonna put it like right in the middle a prune does a prune have juice in it i think it does we're gonna give it a prune prune the lowest p raisin is the middle i think we're going with then it's a razor this is a raisin there's there's no drama here i i need some drama but this is these guys are amazing this they're a perfect couple i understand i tried to start with like you know raised from a single mother because that was really the only like story of of not just badass winning you know but the humble origin story but i agree with you there was like if you google her name there's like a picture of her and khloe kardashian posing with i guess one of their brands and they look like models like i was like this the founder or or a model they they look like models this reminds me of i actually didn't do research on this guy but it reminds me he is also in the kardashians sphere but have you heard of brian lee the honest company guy yeah so brian lee so do you remember who it's so weird do you remember robert shapiro i don't know if you would remember him lawyer who is a the lawyer okay the lawyer so basically robert shapiro was one of the guys i think he defended o j simpson that's what he was famous for do you remember this that's their dad right no so this is where it gets funny so robert so the kardashian family is famous because one of the kardashians i forget the day and the dad who's who's died he defended o j simpson along with robert robert shapiro and robert shapiro you know he's a lawyer big shot probably a smart guy he ends up partnering with brian lee brian lee's this this this guy did in two thousand one so brian lee was only in his early twenties he goes hey i have this idea for this legal company but i need a celebrity to be the face of it so somehow he c or he actually cold call robert shapiro said hey do you wanna be a partner on my new legal company and he's like yeah come to my office let's talk about it and he woo them it works out well that company is now called legal zoom and it's i don't know if it's quite a billion dollar company but it's in that range it's a really successful company and so robert shapiro and brian lee were like hey this worked who do else do you wanna do it with and robert was like well i got these friends you know i worked with their dad the kardashians what if we worked with them and so he does it again and he creates this company called shoe which doesn't end up working out amazingly and and who's actually pretty early who's in two thousand and nine with kim kardashian he partnered with her and it was like a subscription shoe company didn't work out that well and his third company he did called the honest company which i think they went public yeah do they go public they are public and so he partnered with jessica alba for that and he ended up selling like i think thirty million dollars worth of his shares before it even went public now he's doing it again where he c founded another company with derek jet and it's a digital sports card collecting company so this guy brian lee has been doing the same thing very similar to the greed family of like in the kardashians spear and just like being the operator and he's a pretty amazing guys so brian lee's an interesting guys as well dude we could pull up honest company stock by the way hammered absolute absolutely got what's that now so it and it debuted in twenty twenty one there's that twenty dollars a share is currently at a dollar forty it is now only worth on hundred and thirty million dollars market cap is it really i think they do like a hundred million in sales so it's i guess it's straight for one times revenue ouch it's got a great brand i wonder who's gonna buy that i think feel like that's a great target to to buy yeah it's an interesting one but the sky brian lee's been doing this stuff we'll put him in the same category though that that's only a middle one it when you're with the kardashians it's kind of a stack deck yeah it's a stack deck alright you you do one alright i have one so this one's kind of popular right now but there's a really interesting story behind it so virtual dining company or that what's sorry virtual virtual dining concepts so basically a couple years ago mister bees launch of bees and the idea that i think they actually do they tell us in the pod i think you you mentioned this in the pod right his manager oh yeah i think so is he was basically like we had this idea and we went from like idea to executing in like such a short amount of time which was a huge mistake i think he said they did it in like sixty days or ninety days something crazy but they partnered with this company called virtual dining concepts and they launched this thing two years later now it's like a shit show so mister beast is tweeting and he's actually deleted a bunch of the tweets but he's basically said like this company has ruined my reputation because the burger sucks the quality control sucks now they are both suing each other so that alone is a story but that's not even an interesting part the interesting part is the guy behind it so the guy behind it his name is robert earl so robert earl is interesting because in his early twenties he started a company that was just it was just a restaurant i think it was like a medieval restaurant have you ever like seen those on on like movies no but every time i go to vegas i would stay was that castle called the video medieval castle it's like that terrible hotel that's where i would state well it he started this thing i think it was called beef feeder and it was in england he's from england and it was called beef and it was like a medieval themed restaurant and so he starts growing that and after a handful of years like ten years he sells it makes like sixty million dollars and he's like alright what what what next year and so his next thing is planet hollywood do you remember planet hollywood of course so planet hollywood was a restaurant concept where it was like we're gonna go big with all the stars so his big stars were bruce willis sylvester sal arnold thor and then like demi morris cindy crawford he had like all the stars like aligned with this restaurant and he game all equity and goes you guys gonna be a face we're gonna do planet hollywood you go to the restaurant and there's gonna be like wax figures of all the celebrities whatever it was a big deal at the time and he expands it and eventually goes public but they expand way too quickly and they eventually go bankrupt but it's still like it's kinda like a famous failure in that it actually probably could have worked but they expanded it too quickly then he keeps doing this shit though so he eventually buys can't stop he's a he's a concept junkie this guy he's a concept this guy he's a concept junkie he's with this guy like this guy would this guy would would not stop i feel like you yeah i gotta be i need to get in a room with robert earl and i need to have a brainstorm well he's really interesting and so now he's got this thing i think it's called look up earl enterprises so he's got this thing now where he owns they own like thirty different restaurants now and it does something like five hundred six hundred million dollars in revenue and some of the brands are a chicken restaurant with guy f he owns do you remember a you know bell like italian sandwiches than like pasta restaurants yeah it's like better than apple b's a little bit you know they're they're like they're better than apple beans is the bar we and maintain vigorously for all our yeah that's like the thing like none of them are like crazy fancy but they're all like you know it's like twenty five dollars a meal type of thing but he owns a ton of them and so he's in all not all of them but many of them have a celebrity behind them yeah and so he gets this idea when ghost kitchen start popping up with uber and door starts popping up and so he gets a son to help c find this new company with them and that's what virtual dining is and so he has one with bar stool where it's like pardon or my cheese part of my cheese steak it's a cheese steak business and then he decides to do the same thing except this time he doesn't with with mister bees or mister it's called mister bees bees and it takes off but then obviously they have the their their issues but he has still done it with a a ton of people so he's done it with mori mariah carey so he has mori mariah cookies he's done it with rapper tiger which is crazy to me that tiger is even relevant but i think by the way how does he have that much cool well tiger dated one of the kardashian earl so maybe that's how i i don't know you can walk into my house right now and i would say hey sir what's your name i would not know yeah what tiger is yeah it's weird so we has tiger bites they are part of my cheesecake i need to meet somebody who's just eating tiger bites like who are the who are the customer think bite thing yeah yeah yeah they are strong and you not mean i think i think he's working on hub stan h that's gonna be the next what i don't i don't know what the deal is with tiger but he's done this a whole bunch of times where he has this like pretty massive empire and right now he's being sued and so he's they said in the comment or they they made a comment and they're like look like a lot of people are complaining about these burgers but he goes that's just normal like when you serve all these people and he's like look look at all of our restaurants people complain look it's normal people complain about all our shit but but the guy's got like a ton of stuff going on so he owns like a casino he owns aladdin resort and casino in on the las vegas strip he still owns planet at hollywood he wouldn't and they're trying to make it come back a little bit or he owns a couple of them he owns a soccer team that ever soccer team have you heard to that yeah of course yeah and him and his wife live in a twenty five thousand square foot mansion in florida i mean the guy's a baller and if you if you google him he's like this old looking guy who gotta wears his tacky shirts but he looks like a like a blast hang with he has a tv show now where he's like it's almost like what's that tv show called like everyone feeds phil where it's just like a do guy just like talking to restaurant owners and like learning about local cuisine he's got one of those things so he seems like a that's this show then that's on a show it's like it's very it's very similar to that but this guy do these people who have these like sprawling empires for they're like yeah i own you know planet hollywood but then i got this i have this like you know juice brand and then i have this hotel over here and then i got like i own the soccer team is that who you wanna be i'm curious because i think some people really want that i'm not sure that i would want that that seems like just a lot of to it seems like a lot yeah like it seems like is that a goal of yours or i definitely respect it not far but i don't think i wanna be that that guy i think owning a sports team would be cool but i don't wanna own like five hundred restaurants so like he owns i don't know if you've even heard of any of these asian street eats the breakfast club be i've heard of that b italian grill bravo italian kitchen chicken guy that's guy f ares two jays cafe hollywood have you heard of any of these and that not really they're all like restaurants that have like ten or twenty locations and like hopefully each location makes like five million dollars and it's like highly profitable another guy who does this in the same similar ish category is till fort tina do you know who that you probably know because he owns houston rockets i think i so he i read this interview with him and he goes i think i am one of the largest companies in america that is fully owned by one person so he owns one hundred percent of the fort nikita enterprises and it does something like four billion in revenue one million one billion in eb he owns like all these kind of he owns some i guess nice stuff he owns like some steak houses maybe like ruth chris i think he owns but then his he owns like bubble gum shrimp and stuff like that but some of these restaurant brands where it's like thirty fifty dollars a meal apparently they must be really profitable because i've wrote about a few of these guys including robert earl i've wrote about till for ti so i don't know i guess it works but it seems like a pain in the ass to deal with all these types of people yeah let's move on to the next one let's what's that one oh yeah we gotta rank that one on the juicy scale i'm gonna give it i think that might also be a raisin partly out of her revenge and partly because this guy owns a bunch of like mid tier things and so i feel like i can't possibly rank him above i i don't wanna eat at any of his products that way so you know yeah i do think that but i you know the wait did you go to but didn't you go to chuck e cheeses this weekend did not what wish wish i had did not i thought you said you were taking your kids there you're thinking of someone else i went public golf at this due to hilarious these guys opened up a pub they just took a parking lot and then like a husband and wife just sort of out of plywood built a few holes and they they just charge you ten dollars to walk in that area of the of the parking lot and they'll give you a club and my kids love it and we go there like you know like die some month it's in it's getting this insane like business plan that makes no sense i think it makes tons of sense i mean there's just no like it's putting without the green that you're putting on concrete trying to get into there's there's not even turf no turf oh there's a little bit turf but it's like the whole thing is very like it all things like made of concrete so you it's it's not a great not a great look yikes alright what do you got alright i'm gonna do one that actually we've we did i was trying to do research for this and the best breakdown of this business was our own podcast like two years ago but the fact that i had forgot it means that everybody forgot it i'm gonna i'm gonna talk about gut rink so these legends these are the geniuses behind a bunch of celebrity things let me pull up my notes here so but story for these guys literally one of my favorite books which one they can grow rich oh well yes exactly so okay so here's the here's the the way that the the business works so got rink so one of the guys got and last name cathy he's he has a business that's basically audio cassette tape copies so you have a you have an audio tape you wanna make ten thousand copies to sell your music or whatever he makes the ten thousand i think it was even called like audio tape duplication enterprise or some shit like that and it's a okay business but then suddenly he gets a call from a guy by the way i love names like that which lets us start bringing that back i'm sick of the like cute shit that ends in l y you know like cape yeah i mean i want hampton audio yeah why isn't it charles a bunch of dudes talking about their feelings i tried to make hampton a little bit like jordan be named his company strat oak jordan be the washy street guy they're like that's you wanna model your account it was like why'd did you do that he's like i don't know like i just thought of these two words and it sounded like an official thing i was like i kinda like that but i do i i do like like audio tape enterprises yeah exactly so these guys so he gets an order he gets an order for a hundred and twenty thousand tapes he's like hundred twenty thousand oh my god who is this so he calls up think i hey just wanna make sure your order correct hundred twenty thousand or what did you mean twelve thousand say no hundred twenty thousand so i've never heard you before who what do you do turns out the guy is a real estate guy in arizona but what he started doing was he was like oh yeah i was a real estate guy but then i realized i just teach people how to make money in real estate and it's going gang buster and he's like what how does this guy doing it he's like i just ran a commercial for thirty minutes about that i could teach people to make money real estate so you can't do a thirty minute commercial and he's like yeah it turns out that there was as you like to say an inflection and the inflection was that in nineteen eighty four the f the fcc der regulated the ad limit so they said you know before that there was some rule you can only have like twelve or sixteen minutes of ads per hour of tv they removed the limit and so now what people could do was they could just go to a channel and i'm like hey can i just buy like here eleven pm slot for like five grand and they're like sure and they would just bought they would just buy the hour of television programming and they would just run a giant and info commercial and so cathy hears this he goes to he goes to meet up with his buddy this guy rink and he's like y rake is working at his family's hotel resort at the time and he's like you know he's kinda like the pool in tennis guy he's just like sitting around doing nothing and he's like this guy ordered hundred twenty thousand tapes this is amazing i think this might be a better business than the tape business like you know then you know rather than copy the tapes why don't i copy his business and he's like he's like alright so what do we do he's like this info influential thing i think we could do this he's like well alright so they go they buy every book they can read on commercials or like but there wasn't really even the word at the time because again the rule just got chance it wasn't even a category called in info commercials at the time they started studying copywriting direct response marketing and after a few days of just like cram rink like i think we could do this like what should we start with they're like well we could try the real estate thing but neither of us know anything about real estate nor do we like have a passion for that let's at least for this first one let's start with something we both what's the common ground that we both think is like awesome like the the thing we became friends on was this kinda self self help self development personal development category so this is like that sign that cart has when he's like coming up with a a startup up idea he's like look step one we're gonna start up step two we're gonna scale up the step three we're gonna bro down like or like when they're talking about stealing the underwear they're like still on nowhere underwear than prop yeah now like well what comes in the middle exactly and it worked it that actually is that actually is how most startups work by the way i think that you know it seems like you're making fun of them but honestly that's that's actually more true than the other way so so they go they're like okay we can they realize they could buy the rights to the book think and grow rates one of their favorite books because it's like it's such an old book that like the like the copyright or whatever had lapse or some shit like that they could basically buy the rights to it for a hundred thousand dollars so they scrape to savings and they're like we're gonna buy it this they buy it for a hundred grand in the next three years they make ten million dollars in sales off that so like really awesome for them but in the grand scheme of things that it turned out to be like kind of like a just a base hit compared to what they then go on to pick but what what year did they buy the book in the eighties yeah it was like early is kinda like i think early to mid eighties something like that so like three hundred or a hundred grand was like three hundred grand so it's like not a small bet for your first time go one thing leads to another in the info commercial that they create they get frank tar the nfl quarterback like oh let's get anybody they saw the had mentioned they love the the book thinking for they're like hey come be a part of this info information and then if you the whole info information is on youtube you can go watch it in fact i wanna do a break breakdown a masterclass class breakdown just on this info commercial but you can watch something and what they do is they don't tell you about the product at the beginning they're like you just hear frank talking to being like you know i always used to feel blah blah blah but now i'm blah blah blah and then somebody else comes in and they're like you know i was struggling blah blah and then now i'm about and then they don't tell you what's the product that gave them that transformation like this is the genius of marketing as you you sell this benefit of this transformation you want people banging it down your door saying what's the pill what's the product that gives you that right like this is the oz thing how the hell are you losing all this weight and then it's like oh i take this thing okay you know let me have it let me have the magic bill and so at the end of the the video they say it's thinking or ten they do ten million dollars in sales over the three years by the way this video on youtube has like nine hundred views like nobody is studying this thing it's crazy to me that's a video like this would have so few views and they they tell the story around the book that the richest people in the world you know carnegie the roth child they wanted this guy to write this and so carnegie commissions what's his name napoleon hill to go study the the the most successful people in the world and find out their secret and he did right and so that's the that's how they sell this book beautiful in the info commercial this is an awesome info commercial they have one guy come on who's a twenty four year old wonder king this guy just getting the he's on the up and up tony robbins comes on a guy named anthony robbins comes on and talks about how he how much he loves the unpaid by the way they're like hey will you do this i heard you love this book he's like i'll do it does an unpaid spot and they're so blown away by his charisma on camera that they're like we gotta be in the tony robbins business next so they go to tony and they're like hey love your book we wanna do the same thing we didn't think grow rich but with your book he's like okay so they're like we'll brand it we'll figure out the info information blah they do it they create a program in nineteen to eighty eight the euro was born called personal power and it becomes the best selling self help program of all time it does twenty million dollars in year one and you know it just goes on to just how old this i'm i'm looking at this i'm looking at this tony re tony robbins has the original info emotional as you you to pay for the for there's personal power how old is he here he's like twenty five years old of that than that that's crazy man he's got a huge job yeah he he he had a a growth a growth problem which is why hit all of his his hands his teeth his jaw also oversized he's a huge guy if you ever seen him in person i wanted proprietary growth problems he hard life he and he did it i think i think he like it was causing him like to have secret like ten times more h hd than he was supposed to and then they removed it at the right time before he became like an actual like nine foot over so like you know he got the benefits that thing this an a nice amazing choice he looks awesome man is jawline he looks like the ultimate chad he looks awesome he's got like charisma of a nice guy but like the looks of a chad that's that's like that's a killer doing it you i thought that might be your takeaway away from all the things i just said so i'm glad you picked up on the important bit so they do by by nineteen ninety now they're they're three years in they're doing thirty six million a year they almost go bankrupt because the gulf war starts in ninety one and all television attention goes to that so the info business sucks and they have to be basically fire everybody just to stay alive during that year because they were info was just not converting the war was was taking everybody's attention so then they go on and they're like okay here's our here's our model and i've watched there's again this the research for this was so fun the there's interviews with this guy if you wanna google it his is van d van bun this is the guy who who joined really early he's been the ceo now for like out know fifteen years really wanna meet this guy i wanna have him on the pod he's there's no interviews with these guys really out there they don't go podcasts or anything like that but this guy van bun went on did a talk at some school i think at usc and they chopped up his his talking into one minute clips and i must have binge like forty five one minute clips last night of this guy i love this got such a good attitude and was saying that he's like he's like look here's here's our process real simple like we find the market need like how do you find it he's like well if you say one person with good skin and one person with bad skin trust me there's a market need like you see one person brown teeth another original with white teeth that's gonna be a big market need and i can just sell it to you by showing before and after so that's the first thing he's like then we find the products and we try to license or own them then we tie them up to a developer or a celebrity or a story because nobody wants to buy from an ivory tower that says we have the solution no they wanna buy from a person who says i figured this out i spent my life working on this and i figured this out and the he's like we we marry the market need with the marketing technique and so the the market first marketing technique they did was that info commercial technique that drove them for a long time and now they've shifted to more like internet marketing since then and like to do the like the television just the depths that they went to so they were so early in this they're shooting these these things for like you know all their brands like they created proactive the acne brand with justin bieber as one of the celebrities and like these doctors as the celebrities they created principal secret they got this this actress victoria principal and they were like okay we think this is good but we don't know exactly how to sell this product so you know what they did they put her on q c they're like let's over pay to be on q they're like is it gonna break even probably not but at q c if you ever seen how a q c thing goes they you can go backstage because during q people are calling in to buy and he's like basically on a like ten second interval you can see what gets people to buy so they did this almost as a study to test the content so they have her talking for an hour and they can see what are the things she's saying that's causing the sales board to light up and they had they took a product that really wasn't working they went and res shot the info commercial with that intel of like what what lines and what talking points were driving the most interest they res out the info and now it's a two billion dollar revenue generating product that they that they created out of that absolutely pretty all they created proactive they created a pilates brand brand cindy crawford they did all this stuff so they are a hundred percent privately held now no external investors just got and rink they've been knew this for thirty something years and they do a couple billion in revenue profit and i was like how is the model how they scale with the of revenue and then here's the funny thing there's actually a story of like you know this is like funny story so they get this along the way they actually did take investments so it's a hundred percent owned now but at one point in time they gave up thirty three percent of the business or something to this guy ron per who himself yeah is a prolific guy he owns tv networks he owns revlon he owns marvel or he owned marvel at the time yeah i think he he's one of the guys who he's a he's one of the richest men in america i believe yeah i think he's like worth like forty or fifty like in that range billion and he helped i think his buyout of revlon was the largest leverage buyout at the time and he like kinda of pioneered like the the leverage buyout i read his biography a few years billion but i maybe it's gone up since then oh i guess referral for previously worth for a while was used yeah why don't go why did it go down so much maybe because revlon but i think he i don't even remember what revlon did i think it was like makeup but it was it was like conglomerate like own like all this type of stuff but he he bought it for many many many billions and he kinda pioneer the the leveraged buyout which eventually like the american population like it was like one of those things in the eighties where it was like like just absolute greed like there's like you know like barbarian at the gate type of chrome five marriages yeah there's there's a price to be big the ai that's studying right now that might be like i guess getting married five times causes you to be a billionaire there no no it's correlation not conversation you know you know how rich guy he's got five hundred so okay so they they sell it they sell them the steak he gives them twenty five million dollars they're like beautiful and he owns these tv networks are like oh great we get dirt cheap airtime and we get twenty five million dollars to invest they use that to grow like crazy pay off these pay celebrities to like be the endorse like justin bieber and all the stuff to do the i think they had sydney crawford they had like a a a makeup thing with sydney crawford i think they have one with jennifer lopez they had i think with jl lo yeah exactly eventually murdoch buys buys ron per like tv networks or whatever and then basically they're like oh we get this stake this thirty seven percent stake in these guppy r things and it was just kinda lost in the murdoch like empire they went lost like couch just which just buy this back and they got it back for like you know some tiny amount i'm like they they bought they were able to buy back and own hundred percent of it and then i think now like recently finally they i think goldman bought like a minority stake in the business valuing it at three billion but and here's how you know they're they're really rich is a the ceo who you get who you said van what was the name van bot van bun yeah he he just bought a twenty five million dollar house if you just whenever i hear about these people i'm like let's see how rich they really are you could always find out through the real estate holdings he just bought a twenty five million dollar house and then bill gut if you if you google him he doesn't come up because of this business he comes up because prince and prince area house just live for better yeah he they lived in his state it's out a house it's at a estate when they were like you know homeless for a few minutes say like he they lived in his estate state yeah so and then also he owned a home that one of the gender the kylie jenner bought so it all comes back to the cut out they're they're everywhere at these guys peak they owned thirty five thousand toll free numbers their phone bill was a hundred and fifty million dollars a year he was saying he's yeah we did that and they're like did you need that he's like we we did it for attribution he's like we needed to know what converts better the way we did that was every time we would try a new variation of our content we would give it a new number so we could just attribute which numbers getting the most calls and versus the spend and that's how we did our performance marketing in the telephone days i thought that's was great dope i i like them but you're also you didn't even mention their most successful product that everyone who's listening who's at least thirty years old will know this product which one proactive they did proactive i did did you three to say proactive that that's the one they did with justin bieber yeah well i think you didn't put enough emphasis i do the pause pro yeah they did proactive which made like a billion plus i i bought proactive i mean everyone bought pro did you use it no i didn't use it but i watched a bunch of those info commercials they're they're their are very entertainment like you can just watch it as a show and actually it was pretty interesting watching listening to their method so he's like he's like you know he's he he always says the same thing he goes if you just come to be saying x i can't i can't change this channel fast enough you can just tell that that's like the the guiding principle is like you don't want them to change the channel and it's like everything trickle down from that one principle so he's like it's called the slippery slope baby you gotta make a pot on that slippery slope he's like these guys come in and they start pitching me cyber safety product and they've been doing it for like seven years it's you know highest do ever gross as a million dollars a year he's like okay what's the product he's like cyber safe so you know like we help make your your computer computers are the new thing we make your computer safer so you don't get hacked and you don't have virus on your computer he's like man i'm if i'm watching a tv relaxing at night the last thing i wanna do is get stressed about my prop get stressed about a problem i'm not already stressed about which is like oh now my computer is gonna get a virus i'm gonna lose it he's like i couldn't change the channel fast up he's like before they walked out of the meeting and he goes hey i got a question for you you know we have this thing called need meade greed vanity that's what we try to tap into he goes when you fix the computers to make them safer does that also have any other benefits like does it make it faster and they're like oh yeah sure because you know no viruses you can be it go faster he goes alright come back next week could pitch me the fast thing they come back and then they launched this product called double my speed and yeah that business that had never done more than a million dollars in seven years all of a sudden does seventy five million dollars a year at the time he was given this interview which was a while back for double my speed and he's like you know i just he's like i just he goes there's too many smart people and they're like how did you do it did you do like internet advertising for this computer product he's like no we did radio ads and it was just eight radio info commercial he's like you know i he's like there's too many smart people online he's like i don't wanna compete in a knife fight unless i have a gun hey he's like so we went to the radio because really no smart people were advertising on the radio and we could just get a bunch of inventory for cheap and we could just create content that was better than the the current stuff on radio like man this guy is awesome they're were like how are they doing now with info not being as relevant so he talked a little bit about it but i don't know there's not that much info out there but he goes he so he's they were like how do how'd do you make this a success are you used you they're like vent they're guy whatever his name is van bun his van his last name and they're like you joined at what revenue he's like it was twelve million a year he's like what is it now he's like like one point seven billion they're like oh amazing you hear that he's see the whole audience is like wow yeah that's amazing hey he's like he's like yeah when you say it like that it sounds crazy he's like but you don't see that far he's like when you're at twelve you could he's like what's that phrase like you can you can't see beyond the wall that's in front of you he's like when you're at twelve all you're thinking about is twenty five and you just there's some wall between you and twenty five and then you break through that wall and then twenty five wants to get to sixty and like there's another wall to get to sixty like you just keep doing that we just did that over and over and over again until you until you figure out like you know the the right thing he's like and then he's like for six years when we're doing the info commercial thing we were so early to that channel we were just the best at that channel he's like honestly we didn't learn that much during that time he's like all the learning came in he's like he he says his funny joke he's like he's like there was some year where like info commercial started to tank the internet started to getting more popular he's like we had thirty million people that were on a reorder program meaning he's like our business model is we get you interested in a product you call up our phone would pick up and we tell you that that product's gonna be great for you and that we may have some other products they're are great for you and actually you know what if you do this right now we'll keep sending this product for the rest of your life he's like that's like the business model and he's like he's like it felt like one day all thirty million people on a reorder program called each other and were like you know what let's cancel this shit and he's like he's like the way the world was c in and he's like then we had to get smart again and figure out like oh we haven't even had to fight to win in so long let's figure let's be smart and let's figure this out and and you know i just think these guys have these guys have built an amazing business and nobody really talks about them at least in our circles well they don't talk about it because a like it's not sexy i mean the money part is sexy because like when i yeah you make this sound so cool but in reality this probably looks like work aesthetics you remember what that tv show work other just sitting around making phone calls so that's probably what the office looks like we're just much of like morons like sit in this shitty cubicle wearing like a badly fitting tie suit like just answering these calls i mean that's like not that fun to do like on a day to day basis i imagine it's really fun when it's crushing it though they also don't get talk about because there's they've been around forever it's it looks like the company was launched in eighty eight and before that they were doing different stuff so it's been around for forty years now right but yeah i love these guys i wanna know what they're doing with digital because i remember like remember p ninety x yeah the work workout room that love p ninety that's another company it's called something beach which called beach body it's so they own they're just like gut maker but they own like p x style companies and they owned a bunch of them and i remember them well you know what they did did they they pivot yeah they to because the internet was like come around and they're like we have to keep up and so now they have like a it's almost like a netflix style businesses it's an ml subscription so basically they change the sales model from this direct response info model to ml so now they have beach body trainers and associate beach body associates that will sell people to join beach body right so they get peep people to post on social media that they've not only have they gotten in shape they now work for themselves they are independent and they're making more money than they ever working four and if you're interested in kinda hearing how you changed the how you turned your life around like side into the dms and then they basically sell you that like too should start selling beach body programs to people around you and you can make a lot of money and be fit and through that's the worst that that totally like because i remember when i was in australia when i was living there i didn't have a gym but we i did p x i did like i i did it i thought it was awesome but when you go to ml it makes me hate you yeah i name tony tony horton tony dude tony was ripped tony horton was written i i even the like twenty five characters when it was like you know whatever he he be like the the the chef is here the the russian blah blah blah those goes dude great program i wonder what he looks like now he's still jazz yeah he's still jazz i think he is something yeah he looks great some disease he got some disease and then get a bounce back or something well he still looks amazing if you google tony horton he's sixty five years old now he looks great so it worked but anyway i'm a big i like these i like studying these companies i also like studying them because a lot of people in the tech startup world they're like well this shit doesn't work anymore and i'm like wrong it one hundred percent does maybe it looks a little different we'll do this whatever e comm business is doing right like that's what they're the thing the first business i featured which was you know the the greed family doing this with the kardashians creating a shape brand of the kardashians this is no different you know the cosmetics brand with kent with you know kylie dan no different what got rink has been doing they just used instagram instead of an instagram and instagram celebrities instead of hollywood celebrities and tv it's the same model same same thing so this one's a great un this one's definitely the most interesting one it's incredibly fascinating one thing that i was trying to research that i couldn't find and i think there's a a bunch of people in our world working on this is everything that we've discussed it's mostly consumer products what i'm curious is why this hasn't worked for like a more of a b to b product so in a weird way we aren't this but hubs hubspot i where like a fish being like what is water it's like yes we are this for hubs hubspot you know yeah but we're not we're we're not the founders of the company you know we're not we're not like you we are we're we're maybe have kylie jenner in this case right they basically but kylie jenner owns fifty percent of that shit we you know i i own where we got renegotiate renegotiate one percent yeah and so i don't own that much of spot but i remember they what was the company that did this with what was the racks space they did it with a guy what was this robert sc they were early with that but i don't know if it worked out wonderfully or what happened to that but there's not i know there's a few other companies so there's assembly brands i work with this guy hunter so we launched this thing called viral cuts where i own part of the company and it's like a agency that clips podcast clips but it's gonna be small it's not gonna be a multi billion dollar company like i i wonder why shepherd is a good business it's like it's a business that fits our audience right every entrepreneur needs to hire people if you could hire talented people overseas for ten times less like this like a no brainer product so shepard was already working and then they bring me on and now i own a piece of that company enough of a you are the sydney crawford am this you're this one what i've been telling them and i was they looked at me a little funny when i said but you know this is what i bet and you know since we joined you know first it was nick hub was doing it with him no you're more like the chloe you're the you're chloe man you're the chloe oh that's good a plus balance but it's the same thing bring on kind of like a influencer to promote a b b product and revenue all time high last month all time high this month right like it just keeps happening now every single month by doing that so it it's a i think it is happening more in the b b space and that's why it's happening more but it's not nearly as common and i think the or should be it's a big opportunity for sure the thing that the thing is interesting show austin reef tweeted this out over the weekend i don't know if you saw him say this he he said every d i think he said d c though i think he said every like e commerce company is gonna have a content trader that's high more highly paid than many of the executives so he says over the next five years every d business will have full time content creators on staff the best will be comp more than the execs and drive more value than anyone else in the business the math is gonna make sense to hire build and invest in creators who could become a part of your company narrative versus spinning off one off influencer campaigns the key difference being between a creator and a social media manager a social media manager creates a post content a creator is the content and of course the best companies will be founded by creators like happy dad feast bulls prime etcetera when people that hear creator they think of mister vista logan paul i'm not referring to famous creators just people who create content full time and this is something that we're seeing with our d business but in general i think this is i think you just need to take out the word d to c right dha had the same insight he goes every software company is gonna have its own media company why because creating your own media is gonna bring inbound is gonna bring inbound leads and it's gonna be a more a more efficient channel than doing outbound pay ads or it's gonna be and da is sort of like that with hubspot i mean like people like actually our most popular episodes are da so he's like pretty much doing that for his own company yeah exactly exactly okay you wanna do you have more where you want me to do one you wanna do one more or let's just got storage yeah okay i wasn't sure if that was in the same category but i wanna talk about so here's another version of the guy behind the scenes think the the engine that makes the thing work we did it with business with d products will how about music so this guy's going viral recently for a bunch of tiktok because he's got an amazing story sky scott s he is a producer sober now and he's like he's like out of the keys like left the cave he's a producer he's a song and he's famous for a couple of things he produced some of the biggest hits like you know still dr you know little piano keys at the beginning is still dr that's scott storage was sitting on a piano did it and doctor dr was in a kitchen eating a sandwich poked his head and he goes that's it if that's how still dr the track happened i love the story so he's i love those story he did candy be shop he did naughty girl he did a bunch songs with everybody you can imagine beyonce say doctor dr fifty cents snoop dogg bust rhymes just timberlake like chris brown all of them he's amassed a fortune of about a hundred million dollars doing this as a producer behind the scenes that you didn't know about that was just killing it and he's also famous for blowing all hundred million because he got he got addicted to two things spending and cocaine and and he was basically just partying too much blowing through all his money and now he reset so he he you know he went to rehab got clean declare bankruptcy basically and came back you know and now is is is trying to rebuild again and so this guy's story i thought was pretty crazy what do you know about this guy yeah so we did a bunch of interviews lately where he was like i was spending two three four five million dollars a month he was like i had houses that i forgot about he said we had this one house and he goes i had a five thousand dollars worth of like glass figurines because i had a party so you were collecting like cars or shoes he goes i collected everything that could be collected he goes stuff didn't even care about i was had a million dollars of crystal figurines he's like they i had a party and they fell over we just like sweep him up at the dozen he goes i had a five hundred thousand because five hundred thousand dollar crystal bottle of perfume and they go they guy was like you even wear it he goes nah some drunk girl at a party knocked it over and broke it and he's like he had a four million dollar pinky ring if you pick your ball and you don't have a four million dollar yellow diamond pinky ring like you need to step down because scott s has has it done he is a character in grand theft auto because he's so prolific as a guy in miami who's like you know in in the scene there's this one story from two thousand thirteen where he says he spent something like a hundred million dollars one once it's thirty million dollars once he's a hundred million dollars in six months he's like cocaine houses and cars yeah and he just went hard yeah so like i love stories like this by the way i like it because hopefully this will have a happy ending but i just love people that fly close to the sun it a because he dropped out of ninth grade you know that so he dropped out a ninth grade and you know how he made his original like how he broke on to the scene no he was the keyboard guy for the roots so he's in ninth grade he drops out teaches himself how to play the piano and he's like yeah he's they're like he didn't take any courses he's like no i mean it could afford a class like i actually enrolled in one class but i couldn't afford to get to it so i was like oh i guess i'm was just not gonna like you know i just i'll just try to sit here he's like i would i would have a a a a tape player and i put it on the piano and would hear it he's like then with one finger i'd be like trying to recreate what i just heard he's like i just did that until i could learn how to play the keyboards like by ear he's like so then he discovers the roots before they were big he joins them and he's the only you know he's the white boy in the roots and they are just going and playing like literally on like corners and like he's like playing on the corner go you know they'd go down to new york and they would play for a day and they'd come back to philly and he would just do that all the time the roots start getting popular they get signed but then he leaves the roots and they're like why do you wanna leave the roots stick man i heard that's that white boy from the roots one too many times and i he's like they don't even know my name he's like i'm gonna go create my own music so he he's like i'm gonna create my own music through the roots he had met doctor dr so he goes and hangs on doctor dr and dr like yeah know this guy got talent and so he he makes some songs with doctor dr and doctor dr at this time is the biggest producer in the wall he's the most high end band guy so scott s makes his hundred million dollar fortune as he says off the eating crumbs at the end of the table so basically dr would get a project and he's like really picky he's like i'm just gonna i'm not gonna do just anything he's like so he would just take all of doctor dr reject projects and do them himself and made a hundred million dollars doing that and dude how how good is doctor dr by the way the fact that like when when eminem and m came around you know he wraps about it he's like you walked in with a yellow jumpsuit suit and you a white guy and was like dude can't you can't play with this guy when you when you get my white wrappers that's ridiculous if you google scott scott storage my wi from long island so i've got know bunch of long island people this guy looks like there's the long island medium and then there's scott storage in terms of like and like the way that they look in terms of stereotypes it looks like the most long island guy i ever wearing like ed hardy t shirts at true g yeah and doctor dr like sees past that and like sees tout that's pretty amazing exactly and he even says that he's like dr number one skill he's like he's very technically talented but his skill is he can hear ten things and he'll tell you which one is hot and he's like we'll play the same thing five different time and he's like number four is the one that sounds the best and he's like dr just has that ear for what's good and what's hot what's next and what's different what's unique what's singular what's gonna stand out he's like i never had that to that extent he's like but you know i was i i i was able to get good enough where i could still make you know hundreds of hits he would get paid a hundred grand to do a single track and he would do ten a week and when and you know in his prime that's what he was doing that's how he was making his money so he's like dude i'm just rolling in money here and then he stopped working he's like i'm just gonna party you now he's like the problem was like i was spending like still making money but i didn't stopped working three years ago and i was just spending money like crazy and yeah this guys so here here's some quotes i'd like to read you okay on blowing a hundred million dollars quote it happens thanks bro when you talk about blowing a hundred million i know cats that blue double that the second response continues it can happen an to anyone which i got say i don't think you could have it anyone and then he says he says you know i grew up a poor kid and then all of a sudden i have infinite money i have no i have infinite options and i just didn't know how to say no so then he they were asking about like you know how do you make a hit song he just goes like you know in the in the real estate game is location location location and the music game it's melody melody melody he goes it's melody melody melody if you can make a memorable melody that's that's what that it takes to make a hit song and that's what i focused on being able to do so yeah this guy's got storage is a prolific character well he he he'll be back i mean i feel like if you have that skill you can make it work for you can make it work for a while right i mean it's just it's very similar to marketing if it's it's like if you understand what what motivates people and get some to get get them to act whether it's dancing or buying something you'll you'll come back right have you ever met these guys like like the they'll be guys like oh man i just to i got a hold of all these old rookie cards for this baseball player who's about to die we should like go and buy all of them for fifty grand and like hold on to him for three weeks and then resell more i just got this old like you know supply of like dvd players it's only fifty grand and like they're always in the schemes like i always meet these guys like love these schemes every once in a while it works out and this is like a guy scott sew who's like he'll you'll you'll meet this guy and you're like dude you're an idiot no way that's gonna work like quit trying to ski scam me this is one of those guys who's made it work you know another guy who did it that way was the dollar shave club guy you know it actually dollar shave club came to be a thing because he like saw a discount on like a container of like cheap razors and he's like just buy these oh wow yeah he's like let's just get this cheap razors and just figure out how to sell them like i don't know how we're gonna do i think he's father like had a deal on like fifty thousand razors and he's like oh screw it let's just do it i've met a bunch of these people like this for some reason it's always a long island thing by the way and and scott george is a is a for everyone out there who's just scheming on these types of like weird weird things this is your hero you know what i'm talking about you ever meet these guys and they always have some weird hustle going down was guys is counting cars i'm trying to win the not monopoly game mcdonald's you know we or entering contests we realized that most people don't enter contests if there's any work so like my buddy dan was amazing at this i actually wrote him off and then later learned this guy's a genius he freshman year this guy lives three doors down for me and we're like y we're we're gonna go get food and then like we're like well who were we waiting for where's dan and we like go to his don't when we're go into his room we're like dan let's go man we're supposed we're we're hungry he's like oh hold on the deadline for this contest is in like thirty minutes i gotta i i'm out and i'm like what contest why are you doing a contest and like duke is full of like kids who play by the book and dan never really played by the book he was like he had his own little book that he was playing in and so you know he he's like oh this is str gum he's like tried gum will give you free gum for life if you can make a commercial for like a twenty second commercial that's like cool stride gum so he took a little like flip cam like it wasn't even smartphones back then he took one of those flip cams and he basically like filmed this commercial of himself in his dorm room being like whatever str gum the best goddamn gum in the world run he's like doing this commercial he submits it he's probably one of three people that actually like read the fine print submitted a did the work to submit a commercial with that that filled in all the things and guess what stride gum for everybody for the rest of college right we had free stride gum for really he wants get another one he's like wait what type of package should the gum come in what's gum forever like they you could just infinite them out basically like you could just keep ordering by some some limits they needed another one for this sandwich shop called spicy pickle they're like hey we're ren naming our mascot and of course dan's all over there trying to rename the mascot i'm like dan you do even like this restaurant he's like nah but you i wanna win and i'm like you know he he's like the definition of like plays stupid games win stupid prizes but he has so much goddamn fun doing it that you're like i kinda wish i was doing this like dan and so he renamed so that the mask got currently for spicy pickle is a pickle who's a spy called spy the letter c pickle and he's got a business car and he's a spy that'll help you out and that's dan dan created that character and then we go we go to like the ceremony at a spicy pickle headquarters and they're like twenty people in a circle cheering clapping for him and they hand him a big check that says like three sandwiches and he wins and so he just kept doing these things it dance from jersey and and i feel like he just always had this thing which was like i'm gonna win like i'm gonna play these like i'm gonna find these random edges and i'm gonna win like i'm gonna just find these little arbitrage and i'm gonna just constantly exploit them dude we should do an episode on this because have you read about the guy who did it with snack pack like put putting cups like you remember you're like putting okay so they they they ran this contest that says like i forget exactly how the contest worked but you could like if you pull off the tops of the pudding and like lick it it like said like you won this much in free airline miles and there was like some contest around it but the sky did the math where i i'm i just had google it now to remember exactly but he only had to buy i think thirty five hundred dollars worth a pudding which is like a significant amount in terms of like how much space it want up in your room and he like had all this putting and he peeled all the packs and he was able to redeem it for one point two million miles airline miles and he like gained the contest and there's i like we at the hustle we used to do this so people like gaming these contests there there's like a bunch of people there's this community of people who go and find these contests and they're like alright where do they make the mistake where if you file this exactly you could actually like milk it hardcore to the extreme and there was a guy who did this with pudding so he basically it was it was basically you get a thousand miles for every ten labels and the because the whole thing was like for some reason this pudding is supposed to be healthy and so they said if you eat a lot of it it's good for you if we're gonna reward you by giving you a thousand miles for every ten labels and so the there was two dollars a piece he figured out that he could buy them in bulk and he's like here's this arbitrage where it's profitable and he did that where he got one point two million miles for thirty one hundred dollars wow there's a netflix show about this about about a different version of this if some guy trying to do this with i think you had to buy cans pepsi or something like that they're coke or something to do airline this some show i haven't i haven't watched it yet but i saw it show up on on on netflix yeah then there's the mcdonald's one there's was a a mcdonald's one too where they where they like that was just a scam they just they scammed it yeah yeah but it is fascinating i i do like reading about those they're always fun stories we should one of these days walk through an episode of all these people who who've have just game the system we used to do that the hustle at a time where we would give i forget what it was it was like one email subscriber to us was worth ten dollars and if you referred like ten people we would send you a t shirt which was a profitable thing for us and if you google the hustle affiliate contest all of these moms have there's was mostly like a stay at home mom website and it's called like coupon dash or like some of all these websites were it's just people who enter contests and they're were like hey look here's another one you can win a free pair of socks if we if you refer fifty people and it was like referral like rings and we would get all of these people doing this and we'd and we would catch this and were like why is like this like thirty eight year old woman named cindy winning all of our prizes we've never heard of her she's one all this stuff what's going on and you like can figure out that they list your contest on these websites and they game it like crazy it's it's a pretty wild thing so we had to create like a double opt in system because they just figured out they're like you see him i'm talking about like look you don't even need to opt in your email so you can just write like sean plus one at aol o l dot com sean plus two at aol o dot com and you just went and so that's when we had to change it but like i that's why i learned a little bit about this underground world of like sweep steaks they caught it yeah yeah sweep steak hackers amazing alright should we wrap it there or do wanna do it anymore of these we'll wrap it there so i think the order of greatness the least interesting one i think it was either mine or the hot couple the second the perfect couple we got with the perfect couple down there because they've been winning at every day they're all like yeah but it'll it'll go perfect all world robert yeah the perfect couple is the worst just actually there something that on the resume those features sort of like ugly winners yeah like the sort of like more ugly and like you know slightly shady you are the hire you seem to rank on my personal million i don't know if that's intentional or unintentional but it's definitely happens yeah so the hot people they're your your last and then we'll go robert earl and then the one above that is oh scott s she's gonna go number two got rink number one the j but scott is interesting too but gut rake i think there's more to learn alright so that's it that's the pod yeah i feel like i could rule to work i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days all on a go less travel never looking back gotta