The Man Month, Shaan's Feud with Jason Calacanis & Elon vs Zuckerberg Fight

he needs to hold me back guy you're at a hold me back guy you're in a fight you're like hey listen i'm gonna go after these guys i need you to hold me back so i'm not i'm not actually trying to fight this guy i needed to look like i'm trying to fight this guy and i need you to hold me back and i it's gotta be off these guys weren't holding me i would've have kicked your ass he needs to find a hold me back i think elon hold me back guy he's gonna be a hard sneeze he's one hard sneeze away from getting like a back sn and you know what i'm saying like i feel like i could rude of where i know i could be what i want to from at all in in like a days off on a road less try we are live what's going on dude the amazing hoodie say hoodie do you like that hampton yeah that is very nice i had a team off site we had all of our employees get get together in brooklyn and the ceo my ceo jordan organized this lovely event and he gave us all hoodies that say hampton and then our city that we live you're you're a stressful dude to organize an event for i've never had to do it but i've been a part of events where people are organizing for us and i'm like they're like oh yeah by the way it's everything you know the venue changed and we forgot you know there's only one chair on stage i'm like it's cool alright no no problem and then you're like what the hell and so i would be very stressed if i had to throw a off side or an event where you were my like kind of core customer of it is that fair yeah yeah that's fair but let me explain my reasoning behind that and this is very business related number one i believe the way you do one little thing is the way you do everything and so what that means though is if you proven to me that i can trust you i'm all in and i don't question anything and so until you've proven that to me i question everything and if there's not a good answer behind it i doubt you and once we get past that stage i'm good the second reason there is no second reason i think i what a good reason oh i know if there's it the second here's this here's the second reason and we could actually talk about this for a second if you want but basically the second time around you've done something everything is so much calmer because now my entire reputation my entire net worth it's not tied up to this one entity which is what many things i've done in the past have been so i'm much calmer or i'm way more subdued this time yeah i think that's true for sure i and do you find yourself thinking bigger as a kind of like the the way bigger now know this is you've got one win under your belt what was the phrase that justin mer said once you do whatever you gotta do to get your nut and after that go for your noble mission so you know you've got your nut now you you know you you're you're financially secure you're safe not only are you calmer but are you more i don't know ambitious or long term oriented in some way yes one hundred percent i used to criticize founders if they would sell secondary so you'd read about this a lot you you you typically only read about it when it's done in a bad way of which it's done in a bad way many times you'll see this company which is gonna go bankrupt up the founders took fifty million dollars off the table and it didn't work out the reasoning behind that i think is great still which is you give an entrepreneur of five or ten million dollars and they're like wow i i can i can live a really nice life now i think bigger that's definitely the case with me i think significantly longer term so i think like what's this like in twenty or thirty years as opposed to next quarter and i don't care if it fails which is actually a good thing meaning i'm able to try more within it i what have i said trade mean keep keen it's like that with with trying to find a date and make money so like you the less i care the more it happens yeah i the way i think about it is like because you see examples on both sides do you see when somebody had no other option back against the wall that's when they when they when they rose to the occasion and you could also hear the other other scenario which is because i was secure i was able to play a long term game and i was less emotionally invested in the ups and downs of it therefore i was able to make better decisions and blah blah you could see both examples so which one is it and that actually i think the reality is that success is not based on either one of those it's not based on how much money you had in your bank account when you had zero or when you had a bunch people tell themselves stories about it either way i think fundamentally if a person is driven intrinsically driven it doesn't matter whether that fuel is because they're a technologists and they just love technology they're trying to make something good humanity or they're insecure because you know in seventh grade rachel dumped them and it's like well either way it doesn't matter you know like it doesn't matter what you're driving force is as long as you have a driving force and it's different for a whole bunch of people there's there's examples of people on with all kinds of you know chips on their shoulder i think you do need to be driven and it's just a question of by what and i think everybody's got a different by what are are are you more calm now that you've had success i'm definitely more calm but i was pretty calm before i so calm i would say is it's not really the word i guess the way i would put it is i'm less desperate and let yeah yeah i think that has ups and downs so again like i said like when i was desperate to prove myself like you saw that i worked in that really fancy office i also slept in that office i think basically i was like one year like two hundred and seventy five days out of the year i slept there and like it was nice to sleep there so it's really nice they had an apartment built into the office it wasn't like the it's not like i was sleeping under my desk on the like concrete floor but nonetheless that just sort of means you i just didn't have a life i didn't wanna have a i didn't wanna care about friends and dating and other things i cared about just making it i just wanted to be successful really badly and i was like it's not even that i was super productive all those hours but i was like look i'm gonna throw all my hours at the problem i will sleep here i will wake up here that just seems more efficient i'm just gonna do that i did that for several years but now i would say that desperation has been replaced with you know a different asset okay i lost the desperation which was serving me do i have now which is like i can operate more out of a like i can choose things that are like i'm i'm actually driven towards like to have a purpose even if there's no short offensive as well yeah there's no short term path to like right now for example i'm writing this newsletter every day write this thing every day there's no ads there's i subscribe no small boy or small boy yeah a small boy small boy and i'm writing this thing there's no ads there's no premium there's no up upsell there's no business model i so why am i doing it and i'm like because i really like writing and more than them like writing i like finding interesting shit to write about things that you know scratch my curiosity so i'm able to do something and then as i'm doing this thing that has no business plan that has know whatever i'm seeing all these extra opportunities open up because that i think that i couldn't have seen at the beginning and so just by doing the thing i really kind of have drawn to i'm most interested in i'm doing my best work and when i'm doing my best work these unforeseen things start to open themselves up and i'm like oh i would have the twenty four year old me would have never been able to do this because twenty four year old me was desperate and needed i needed to pay off quick now i don't need a quick payoff and so i'm able to do things differently and i think that has a different advantage can we talk about is there a new chip on your shoulder now what you tell me is the feud that you're experiencing right now your internet feud is that has that even made it to the point where you bring it up at the dinner table no no no my wife is not aware of it but she's like how come he's looking at his phone for like an extra thirty seconds longer and it's because i'm coming up with the a badass slam in my head is what's actually happening i'm words smith a seventh grade insult right now and i don't know what what does my kid want what do you want hold on daddy's is busy i'm i'm coming over with a y mama joke to jc all at right now background of this is there's a podcast called the all pod they're great i think they're good but they're different than us and a lot of people will listen to both of ours so maybe there's a little definitely put competition in there but we can all win and last podcast cash sean challenged them basically to a hundred thousand dollar poker bet a heads up poker but there was some more there's some more detail behind it but i shared that on the internet and jason cal i thought he was coming hard at me too but he came hard he said sam you're great sean you'll still learn and he gave you a head pat and he said smart you is sean to punch but i don't know if he so so the background is while we were where we're talking about i think we're were making fun of him a little bit because he in the rogan debate people were like you know it's raised two million dollars for this the scientist to come debate this guy like a kind of a a a famous internet challenge here and he's like i'm in for ten k which is funny because the from the record is doing was a hundred k plus i've never made fun of jason if it comes down to it you have my loyalty i i'll die for you but i've so far if you want me to i'll i'll i'm glad least hop in i've stayed mostly neutral this is a you thing yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's fine by the way i like jason for the record i have nothing against chase cal i've listened to this week start for a long time i don't listen anymore but i used to listen like back in the day i like the all in podcast it's sort of like two thoughts that are both true i like their content i have nothing against them personally i've i've met him a couple times in passing no ill will there also i think some things he says are funny and cringey like funny kinda laugh at you not with you type of thing and cringey like when the thing i i think the joke i'd made that he didn't like was that i said all in is billionaire or something about a billionaire shit m mfa is millionaire or talking about millionaire shit and somebody goes actually it's more like three billionaires and their jason cal and he goes he came in for his own defense and goes actually i'm a sent cent millionaire i just thought that was crazy as fuck which objectively and scientifically it is and so like he might might have taken offense to that and i it didn't fully like it but i would say my poker challenge to them is only for fun i just think it would be a fun thing to do i think it'd be a fun thing to watch i'm just looking for some action i love playing poker they say they're great at poker okay let's do a little celebrity but no no liberty for each challenge nothing's been settled you're not doing it yet well they didn't take the bait i think you know he was sort of just like well you know you're not famous enough for me to do this challenge i have more to lose than i do have and then i have to gain and out of doing this with sort of the the vibe by god which honestly the fair the problem with that is that that's not entirely true does are are they are they more popular you could argue that for sure for sure but but we're there there's a ballpark and you know it's there and i'm in the stadium yeah it's not like calling you know what i i say it's not like kind of a five ten guy tiny you know what i mean like gotta be at least five six to get that nickname yeah you're five ten here you know what i mean not small enough yeah yeah but the funny thing is as i was talking about yeah know we should like on the podcast i was joking i was like oh wait is this fake internet beef i would love to have some fake internet beef that's you know this is how rappers for generations have been getting famous you know they they have fake beef we should do this as podcast podcasts with other podcast podcasts and so i think that was the the fun behind it we got one up big time just when i thought me and jc cal were getting some some fake internet beef palmer lucky comes off the top rope the founder of oc and andrew comes off the top it just body slams jason people love that and then while that's going on elon musk challenges mark zuckerberg to a fight and now i don't even give a shit about my own poker match i need to see these guys fight let's break this down i we we have to do this story yeah so basically i don't actually don't know how it started do you know how it started but what what i do i'll fill in when facebook actually facebook officials replied with a beautiful response well there's there's a few steps to it so i think the first thing was i guess the old i think the origin of this was a presentation leaked out of facebook that was talking about the facebook's coming out with a twitter competitor i think it's called project ninety two or something like that and it's a twitter competitor and their pitch was sort like yeah it's a twitter competitor instagram people will be able to immediately have their instagram following on this so if you wanna if you're already famous on instagram you could just start sharing short form text like twitter on our new thing and you know it will be run by like run a sane way like it'll be managed in the same way i think was the something that something with the word saying in it and so essentially implying that twitter is sort of insane and either the way elon running it is reckless so that got out that that present internal presentation leaked might intentionally maybe not i don't know so elon started making fun of of zuckerberg he's saying like you know z my blink you know like you know he's just sort of like you know tweeting stuff like that and then somebody somebody was like you know watch out z been training and he got and elon replies and says i'll fight z in a cage match so he says this and z screenshots it and post on his instagram story with the caption send me location which for those who don't know is a iconic u slogan by ka beam i think one of the greatest u fighters of all time who was when he was fighting with conor mcgregor and mac mcgregor was like oh he's scared he doesn't wanna fight me blah blah and and hub aviv just goes but brother i'm not scared you wanna fight me okay just send me location just send me location like basically where do i need to go i'll fight you anywhere and so z hits elon with the send me location and this triggers a chain of events that i thought was a joke so i thought first of all i've never seen duck talk trash that was already kind of an amazing moment he he he he did a heel turn which is awesome the second thing is i was like okay well there's no way this is serious and then elon sees that tweet and goes sees that story and goes i'm serious i'll do it if he's down and then people are like wait what i don't know if you saw this today sam do you see that dana white involved so dana why this is the president of the u comes out because again i'm sort of you know my greatest fantasy would come true if this if randomly two tech billionaire ceos went and decided to do a u match that's my two world's colliding all of a sudden dana white comes out and he says i talked to mark and elon last night both guys are absolutely dead serious about this he goes this would be the biggest fight of all time floyd and and connor was one of the biggest fights of all time this i think triples it there is no limit on how much this could make he said it would be in las vegas it would pay view and it'd be about a hundred bucks pay view and you would have fifty one year old elon musk again i know like thirty nine year old mark zuckerberg who's a hundred pounds lighter than him and dude what is happening is this is this real and then the verge reached out to facebook in a facebook official which is reply marketing team and they just said yeah and they go the story speaks for itself which is another like basically there's a guy in the u that always says it is what it is and that's exactly what what facebook just said they said we're it it is what it is it sounds it it sounds serious and i thought that was a pretty baller move i think this is hilarious i think this is awesome i love a freak show assigned me have i have some rapid fire questions topic number one most importantly do you believe this will happen yes or no and why i believe z will do it and i and i and i think he would do it i think there's not a chance that elon would do i think elon would get very hurt just trading for it and i don't think there's a there's a there's not a world where elon does so you think it's a no no because elon yeah i hundred percent agree with you i hope it happens i'm not saying it won't happen but i would just if i had the guess i had to guess i would say it doesn't happen because elon realizes that he's gonna lose a lot he's gonna lose first of all if he does this he's gonna get destroyed he's gonna he's getting tapped out and if he if he does it i think he realizes that it's a pretty bad look for him to lose to z his cool factor is really high and he needs to find a a wiggle out he needs to hold me back guy you're out to hold me back guy you're in a fight you're like hey listen i'm gonna go out to these guys i need you to hold me back so i'm not i'm not actually trying to fight this guy i needed to look like i'm trying to fight this guy and i need you to hold me back and i it's gotta be off these guys weren't holding me i would have kicked your ass he needs to find a hold me back i think elon hold me back guy he's gonna be a hard sneeze he's one hard sneeze away from getting like a back sn and you know what i'm saying like he's not the guy's not fit you know he's a he's a he's a charlie horse away from pudding that's winner by no mark alright so so that's my second question which is how do you think let's say let's say our dreams do come through this fight does happen what do you think would actually happen like predict the actual fight what would what would happened byte starts what happens look so i box for fun and i spa and what i've learned is it doesn't really matter that much it matters a bit but it doesn't matter how in shape you are it doesn't really matter how tough you are if you don't practice that skill set and you go against another person that doesn't have that skill set yeah it's just it's just your light years away from one another just being comfortable getting hit i think z would finish him within two minutes he'd probably get him on the ground and elon with tap from getting his arm injured or something like that yes now the counter argument but elon could train are you counting elon out this guy's proven he could do anything he could train what's the counter to that he won't i don't think he'll train and i don't think any amount of training look you can't make a overweight fifty one year old fit in any amount of time your magic powers of oz he's already on he's already lost like thirty pounds on oz it it's it it doesn't matter it's keep in mind z still only thirty nine i think or thirty eight no i i don't think that elon can train and i don't any no amount of training so get him here's data people will on twitter were like elon we love you but man i i think zac would handle you here's what elon said hit three three things that he said he oh i saw one he said i don't work out except for sometimes when i pick my kids up and throw them in the air so he doesn't work out at all doesn't exercise yeah if forget about fighting the guy doesn't an exercise secondly he's like i'm so much bigger than the guy you know just for reference he wants like six three two hundred plus pounds you know z is probably five nine i think five five eight five nine maybe five ten max and it's probably giving up easily fifty pounds in a in a fight here so weight class do matter elon says i have this move called the walrus yeah i'm just like a walrus i'll just lay on they can't do anything they're just pinned this is this is his bull none of that matter doesn't matter with does you get two people want to start on their back with you on top of them it doesn't matter i i i'm not a practitioner of jj but i watched it enough that i feel i feel confident at least in this call it is so one cited it doesn't matter training like if you're a beginner in two you can go to a gym for six months and you'll still be getting your ass whoop by like you know people who are just like you know one year ahead of you because the learning curve is very steep to actually get good at this stuff like you you you don't pick up boxing or digits too very quickly boxing i don't even think it would be a factor i think the fights go on the ground both guys are too un coordinated and nobody's knocking anyone out both guys i think would look very athletic and would end in stock staffing about by the way do you see this picture i put in the doc look at this this picture of elon wrestling at sumo wrestler you seen this ugh yeah he said he's briefly done karate briefly done j and and done a little bit of j is what elon has said in in the past if i had to bet on elon versus mark on most everything i think i would choose mark zuckerberg yeah like whether business or fighting i think both a good hang i think zuckerberg would be a better hang i think z it would trump him and and just about everything don't you agree i'm a good hang i think a lot of people would pick elon i think he wants looser and more fun and it's like oh he he smoked weed with joe rogan and he must be awesome right like this is like how much you i think he would be an awkward hang i think it'd be very uncomfortable i don't think i think duck is is just z dude they're they're both podium on the in the awkward olympics i mean let's just be real here yeah yeah but zach z like you know he reads books on where to place his hand when he meets people like he's like place on shoulder you know what i'm saying like and he actually like studies it you know i i think that exactly is he gonna win in in every aspect do you agree i agree i really hope this happens there's this dana white thing gave me a slight hope but there's a famous and people don't know this dana white is a like he's a world class liar in fact if you ever go into like the u communities on on reddit whatever like one of the most famous like tag lines of the communities don't believe his lies because he'll tell you he'll sell you anything he's a promoter he will he will try to drum up interest doing whatever he's gotta do and and and try to pull things off like that this might be by the way this might be the hail mary save twitter thing you know like may weather mac mcgregor did like five hundred million dollars if he thinks this is gonna do triple that let's let's just pretend dana why it's not lying for a second here if this fight did like a billion dollars in elon took home you know two hundred million dollars out of that net hey that's you know just another few months of runway for twitter which is currently unprofitable and you know depending on who you believe could be could be bleeding advertisers i i have to imagine that there's also like a life insurance policy that these guys have like i wonder if it's like you have to have dirty with you you can't you can't write a motorcycle dude just they're gonna just send in like a proxy like here's my bodyguard versus yours right like in history isn't this how like conqueror fight they don't go fight themselves they send in their best gladiator like the top engineer at facebook at the top engineer at tesla need to go in and fight for their eyes i would still it's like i would still bet on anything z does do you wanna can we talk about bee h yeah let's do tell me a little bit about the background not bee h alright so what is bee bee is a piece of software if you wanna create an email newsletter bee hyphen in my opinion it's the best way to do it i'm biased because i invested it but i also used it before i invested in it we used it for the we built our whole business office i basically saw what you had done with the hustle what the morning grew guys had done and you guys had all done almost like what i call collect the homebrew version of bee hive which was like when i asked you i hey what should i use for this you're like well you know you're gonna here's are some things you care about you care about deliver ability you care about how easy it is for your writer's try you care about a referral program blah blah there's five tools and what bee h was was it's complicated and it's complicated and is expensive and what bee he did instead was the guy worked at morning brew and he built out their like referral and growth program i think he left and he basically was like how do i product the internal tech that we kinda had at morning bruce so that it makes it easier for anybody to create a newsletter brand so and this is a concert discussion that we had at the hustle and my constant answer was no let's just focus on this one thing and that's true i made the right decision because it's so challenging for a media companies to be a software company and vice versa it's hard and when you're doing one thing to like i had ad salespeople like you guys can't sell software it's just different and he has proven that i actually predict i was like no because we're not we need to focus and also because i don't think there's a market for it so far i think i been proven wrong but i i don't haven't been proven wrong totally we'll see if it spins it out here so he creates hive it's basically you go on you click a few buttons you got a newsletter you got your templates you can create segments you could do all the features of a newsletter great it's good we use it for the milk road we build our whole business off this thing we sell milk road after a year or so along the way i got pitch by them probably when you did and i was like hey i'm thinking about this hyphen thing we're raising money big fans you guys would love for to have you involved and i i had the same opinion as i was like i don't know seems small it's like i think i think there's some newsletter brands i'll be big but i don't know if their underlying tech is gonna be that big i know if they're i don't know how big that platform would be at a a software so i i we passed and i think the first valuation we looked at was maybe ten million ish ten you passed two at that time right for same reason market might be too small and at the time i was saying no to most stuff but really i also thought i i don't think this can work don't think i don't think it could work at a venture scale and there's a classic lesson here which is like some there's such a thing as knowing too much often the people who know the most about an industry are either a too much scar tissue they just don't wanna be involved is that anymore they just wanna go do other things that just don't wanna think about that because there's too much like i spent seven years i left a piece of my soul over there and i don't really wanna wanna worry about that again and the other is you get too defined by like you know how things are and you don't really you're almost two too deep you don't see where it's going this is why very few breakthrough innovations come from traditional industry experts they come from often beginners and why why would a beginner be able to create a breakthrough and not an expert because they come in with a fresh perspective and blank slate they don't they're not limited by you know the prevailing wisdom so that's that's happened many times over so we passed we start using it though like i'll be a user so you know that there's that i'm not gonna invest but i'll be a user so we i start using it and what did you dig the product and at first it was good but i kept running into these limitations and i would be like hey oh my god they don't even let you filter by x or wait you don't even have analytics for my growth side or the referral program only does this you know like i find these i'd bump into the limitations because this was very early on we were like one of their first users i think and his reply i bet was the best reply on earth because that's what it seems like it was the perfect replies always which is i hear you we agree already working on it but let me see if i can get you something a little sooner yep we're planning to release this in two months but let me see what i can do here and what they would do is either he would manually do a workaround for us it'd be like look we don't have this analytics thing yet but here's what i'm gonna do i put a button on your dashboard it's ugly it's gray nobody else can see it it just but it's an export it'll email you a csv and then could you just run the run the analytics yourself for now until we build it so he would give me he would take three hours and just make my life better he would understand he would also ask me a bunch of questions like so what are you trying to really do here and let me just confirm i understand this like a good product person would do he's trying to really understand the needs the second thing he would do is then they would actually ship the feature so what he'd say that's two weeks away i remember telling ben many times then be like oh yeah they said they're coming out in two weeks i was like dude oh you were rookie like no way start say anything they don't like no what engineers has ever hit a timeline like this never happens sure enough two weeks later hey they would proactively reach hey the features out test that out i want you to i i think it'll work for you guys now and we would go to it and he just did that three times so over the course of about three or four months i was like change my mind call tyler we need to invest in this thing i was what about your concerns about the market i was like i don't know still might be true but here's what i do know this guy's an animal is making a product that's really good and you know what this might be an example where the market is bigger than you think which has been the case for many big winners like you know what's the market for you know private black town car on demand or crashing on someone's house as an airbnb right like these things can become a lot bigger than you sort of initially look at if you sort of sq i've heard so many people say the same thing about him and i've noticed because i found him online i've only talked him once of twice i've noticed online of him changing like quickly moving quickly changing the product quickly and whenever i saw that i i thought damn he's gonna do it he's he's gonna yeah i don't know how big but something's gonna get pulled off here that's that's i you you could tell that right away and this is so two things on this one there's a framework that we had in my very first start we realized we were the we were doing our sushi restaurant and in the restaurant industry there's just weird phenomenon which is provide what's expected no points mess up their order minus ten points but fix the mess up plus five points so it's like i was like hold up if we had just given them the right dish they don't care there's as move on as expected if we mess up their order they're angry but if we fast fix and we not just fix their order but we give them the freebie with it or we ex you know we we really may come back and make sure that they're all good or we take it off their bill all of a sudden they had a tremendous experience with that's and they'll go tell their friends and i was like what's with that and i and i came up with this sort of like the fix it theory of restaurants which is actually mistakes they're gonna happen anyways and actually what you need to train instead of a mistake mini randomization it's how fast and how like thoroughly can you fix it because that actually creates like a a higher net promoter score that's beautiful this guy's doing this with software basically did you make this up yeah i'm sure there's some name for this i don't know this is like a whatever or you know discover very hardware but like i'm sure there's a fancy name for that i i i just called it the fix it theory right like if we fix it it's it's all about how you fix it and the fix it where you get the like die hard so it's a very good i noticed that as he was doing that i'll give you one other little bee story which is like i don't know little dark maybe doesn't want me to share this but like do you know at some point his cto passed away so we were i a biggest jerk of all time he says the two week thing something didn't happen in the two weeks one time and i was like dude come on you said whatever where's is that feature we really need it don't you understand how important my newsletter but i'm being like you i didn't say those words but like i'm playing up in the in a way here we were we were just like oh god complaining like it's not ready yet he's like i'm so sorry we're just dealing with something right now his cofounder or cto had passed away during the start and they were you know that's a very hard thing for any entrepreneur to deal with yeah he handled that like as well as a human being can handle at meaning was totally you know like and empathetic around what was going on but also understood that like you know he's got he he's gotta keep moving forward in some way he's gonna have to figure this out and it's not an easy thing to figure out i mean like all kinds of great you just don't know the passwords to have the things right he's like all kinds of stuff that you don't even really think about because knock on wood this never happens but you know just seeing how somebody overcomes adversity and deals with really tough situations is another thing where you sort of see you know characters revealed in moments of difficulty and adversity you have somebody handles something you think you know what i think they're gonna figure things out fast forward to i think it's really young too right he's like twenty he's he's in his probably twenty seven yes something like that yeah he's pretty baby face i don't know it seems young i'll tell you two other interesting things so yesterday the reason why we're talking about it is yesterday they announced we should probably should've lead with this yesterday and they announced they raised a series a twelve twelve a half million dollar series a from lights speed at like a fifty million dollar valuation i think what an article said yeah i think a little more than that so they they raised this money and they he posted a graph of their arr so their annual recurring revenue and it's hockey stick curve it's three million in arr and like i don't know how long let me let me check i think it's sort of like yeah through three million arr and like twelve to like eighteen months maybe something like that it's really really really impressive and so the run rates i think four million he's like and he said in a thing we're trying to end the year at twelve million super impressive end the end this year so go go from four to twelve that's what he's ported why he's was trying to jump he says currently at a four million dollar run rate they have three million dollars of recurring revenue from their subscription product plus another million of revenue from their like because they'll help you let's say you wanna sell ads or you wanna monetize your newsletter they'll help you monetize your newsletter too so they have like other products now wow and it says yeah i forgot you both the but i think it's like roughly eighteen months to to you know maybe twenty four months at the max that it did that oh you gotta call out in the in the tech crunch article it says used by milk road hell yeah that's right i mean the ballpark baby so so you know you know i think that this is a an interesting example i'm curious to see how this plays out i could see this still honestly going one of two ways you know i i'm an investor but i i could totally see this being a great business that wasn't venture scale meaning like he might sell this thing for a hundred they might get to twenty five million in in revenue and sell for two hundred million dollars i think that could be that's probably the expected outcome to be honest it would that be would you be happy with that yeah i'd be happy for that yeah i we would we would make some money it wouldn't be like the type of return we would like you know that you would like in a startup up portfolio you're obviously looking for these like billion dollar plus outcomes but hey you know like that's a a win a win and i would be really happy happy for their team so you know i think that would be life changing money for him to be a great outcome i think that's like that's like the the the like if they do well if they execute well i think that's on the table i think what's the question is how big does this kind of newsletter media thing get can this get to the scale where okay if they're if they're trying to get to ten million arr this year they're at four trying to get to ten if they get to a hundred right if they ten x once from if they ten x from there over the next you know five years that's now a billion dollar company the question is like can it become that what would they need to do to do that i think that's gonna be be to be the challenge of the big question for them i don't think that's gonna happen if i had to bet i think that there's a nine figure exit that's gonna happen here that will make them wealthy and be a huge success i don't think a billion dollar company is gonna happen i think it's too challenging i think that i'm an investor of convertkit if you google convertkit and then the word bare metrics you can see all of the revenue and the churn on convertkit convertkit been doing it for eight or nine years i think and you there they're are a little bit more focused on small businesses as opposed to bee high which is like freelancers turned one man j man companies and you can look at their turn of convertkit and i would think it's better than b h and it seems very challenging to get to a hundred million in revenue in a venture times in an adventure time frame yeah i think that's i think that could be totally totally totally the case so on convertkit their mr right now says basically a three million a month so thirty six so it's thirty thirty six million a year yeah thirty six and look at the churn i think it's four percent a month yeah three point five percent a month and so does that mean that most people churn out after one year is that what that math means no i don't i don't i can't math a public math definitely definitely don't try to do monthly compounding into extrapolate that for twelve months that's not easy for me but i think through you know three and a half percent churn per month is you know obviously not great but it's also not like bleeding in in in saas metrics no not at all and i think that i would rather be nathan barry and own ninety percent of that company of course nathan probably had money or had some income coming in so we have like the the ability to do this and like you said everyone's gotta get their nut and get it how you can yeah so i think it's gonna be massive success i just don't know if it's gonna be a billion dollar company but i think that the takeaway here for myself for you and for the listener is the speed of shipping new stuff and making iterations and more so talking to your customer constantly and hearing what they have to say and asking them why not what do you want but why and i'll come up with the solution i think that's the takeaway here i think the fix it menu thing is or the fix it framework is really really really good is that what you i'll give i'll give you two other little frameworks around this so one is from paul graham program graham wrote this sa once where he goes a thing i've noticed that you know successful entrepreneur program created yc so he saw you know whatever thousand plus already try to come through there and picked pick very well he goes one of the things i would say is most commonly linked with like success he goes can you describe this person as an animal and what that means is not i oh he's like a giraffe he's got a long neck no it means could you just be like do that guy's an animal right two she's an animal it's basically just just just just describes the sort of ten tonality intensity and speed with which somebody moves and just figures things out and gets through obstacles and breaks through plateau toes and that one piece of like kind of like investing advice has really stuck with me and like served me well because it's really easy to get analytical about the market about the product about the industry about the competitors and you should that's that's good look at it for all angles but whenever i'm like this person's an animal i'd make a bet for better or worse i'm just like i'm just gonna air on the side of betting on people when i think when i can describe them as an animal because that type of person could figure things out and i think on balance it's just a higher predictor of like outs outside success and also the opposite is true i've i've made some stakes in investing when i'm like oh love this market love this product and i'm sort of projecting if somebody was just a beast and took this on they would just crush it and i kind of overlooked the fact that the person going after is sort of soft and timid and seems to lack aggression it doesn't seem to know their shit they really know their numbers that well when i ask about the customers they don't post linkedin in a lot yeah they they keep wondering about stuff and when i ask them what's going on three weeks later they don't really have clarity on like what's changed what's better what what they're focused on you know when they hit they get overwhelmed easily and it's like i've do so talk myself into market you know market investments and i i guess for me early stage investing i think that that that is the person an animal is just a very important test that's one i got an update from a company i invested in and they were talking about their new like linkedin content series and that was like the main thing and i and this is a software company and i was like okay but how about revenue profit and like how fast like you know what i mean i was like i i don't care also i don't care about the new hires frankly hundred percent i'm gonna shit on my own portfolio this way i would i i said this the day i said to to my investment part of romeo and i go around and man like i feel like maybe fifteen best case twenty percent of our our portfolio writes good updates i said that makes me worried because i was like really there's two buckets there's people who just don't write updates at all or they're inconsistent yeah they pop up when things are good or they need something and then they disappear for nine months when things are going tough and program also is written about that which is when you stop talking is when things go bad like the people who survive are the ones you continue being in communication even when things are tough and when you omit information when it's like exactly hey so why didn't you just put how you you told me how much your burn was and your why don't you put your cash balance in there exactly like like you know i can do the math investment in one company early on that's a pretty famous company in silicon valley it was really hot for a period of time and now it's like people gone sour on it and they said they like would right they're first when they were when it was really hot they would write these very surface level updates like we hired this vp in this person in this person and we brought on this new investor it's like cool what what about the business how's the business going and you're almost like like don't ask about the business let's see what's going on why why is that the feeling and then sure enough eighteen months later oh bad news coming out you know we had to do layoffs and there's bad hip press article and all this stuff and we're just you know we really need to raise money but it's not looking good it's like what's your burn rate oh we burned three million a month i was like dude what and why haven't you been saying this right like it's an unbelievable and then and if you asked them like okay what's the problem right now it's like well the problem is you know the funding market right now and this that like no the problem was you were burning three million dollars a month for a long period of time without the corresponding like you know reward for that burn you know you weren't growing at the proportion of that burn and you were reckless with money right like that's the the reality that's the honest lesson out of it you might be telling yourself some other story similarly with our portfolio say about twenty percent are are writing good and a good update is you here's an anatomy of a good update i might actually just release a template for all on this but it's basically hey guys as a reminder we are hampton what we do is this right like first just like say what you do not that like your investors forget but it's in general you're not top of mind for people and you should have a real clear punchy thing that you're drilling in this association whenever this whenever you think of this word think of us whenever somebody has this problem think of us and so like first start with that then say last month was and you're answer your a great month good or bad answer that question and then write the kpis i need the kpis has gotta be revenue active users or active usage active customers in some way the the negative of that of some churn or you know cost number associated with that you'd net burn maybe cash balance you know how much cash do we have on hand and then you wanna write the number for we have to write the number for what it is in parenthesis you wanna write how much is that up month over month and what is your goal right how are you doing i against your own goals because our annual goal is to get to ten million dollars of revenue get a hundred million dollars in revenue and to do that we need to be doing x and we're actually either above that below that or on track that's the honest way to start an update below that you can write whatever the hell you want to be honest you gotta write that part first the next part you should write is why that happened so revenue is down because blank revenue up because we tried this affiliate thing and it's actually working pretty good we're gonna double down on it revenue is down because blah blah the users is flat because you know we didn't do x y z or we are doing x y z and it's just maintaining gotta to figure out how to get the next level so you have your your sort of two sentence commentary on the metrics then after that you could put your ass like here's what i need from you and below that you could put in whatever the hell updates you want honestly i don't what the fluffy is the fluffy step yeah what you don't wanna do is what a lot of people do hey we have this article can you share that's the you know the the start of the update just a quick update on our end good month for us we made these four hires i wanna welcome you know steve like what why are we talking about steve your vp of marketing you know they just go on you know steve used to work at visa but now he's over here and that's really great blah blah oh on the product side we released these new updates it's like do this not where you put patch notes like your investors care about something and you don't wanna go over here and wave your hands about all this other shit that's not actually like the core relevant for information and i think it's just wild to me that people don't get that i i have refused to like i'll die on that hill that's how investor update should be written and it's crazy to me that people don't just do that consistently yeah when i see that i just think you're lying about something this is goes back to what i said about the way we do one thing is we do everything if you're not honest if you're not honest about it i think that you're lying about other stuff and i just and so i think it's really important to do these things really in the right way i used to do this all the time at the so i felt i think you mine right i used to send me your updates and they were phenomenal they were perfect it was exactly in this format and you were like you know you're just the university of common sense it's not like you were like getting mentorship or advising or yourself fifth startup up it was just like alright what are people gonna care about like obviously the key metrics how i think how it's going what i think about those key metrics and what we're gonna do next that's this is what you're update was i think what i understood is that like people basically wanna get rich they wanna get laid and they wanna have power like most of my things in life are rooted in like knowing those three things and the problem with a lot of silicon valley companies is they think that like the answer of but i learned a lot is good enough when it's like no man i gave you my hard earned money i expect a return and you need to be what are they scott be is he goes you need to be a steward of capital and i heard that and i was like oh my aunt you'd make it sound so official i sound like a knight like i'm just like deploying like money i'm like i'm like a knight and shining armor to do this and so there's like that and it's basically like i'm a small business owner trying to make money and my business is investing in your company you just took money out of my family's mouth and you know boot off our table that's how i feel and so if a person isn't doing everything in their effort to give me a return on my investment i get fucking pissed if they do really hard but they work really hard and they fail or if they make errors i'm cool with that because i knew that i'm playing the lottery here but if they do this soft shit and they don't aren't honest about it it kills so kills me kills kills me in the sense of lying i actually think that's the minority you case i don't think people are actively lying i think peep if they're lying to anyone they're lying to themselves i think what's i would actually it's it's it's lying through a it's lying through a mission is what it so so i think it's there's three scenarios either you know the situation and you don't wanna say it bad or you just don't even know the situation you're not on top of these things really bad it's usually the first or you know it you don't wanna say it and you're intentionally withholding the information in order to mislead or mis or whatever the worst and so it's really bad bad or bad right like you know the bad bad or bad it's it's like and there's really not a good explanation the only good explanation that i accept is that there are some companies that are doing so phenomenally well and they know that investors are actually kind of a leaky a leaky bucket and they don't want they wanna get a they want their rumor milk to go ahead now let me tell you the number of times it's that out of a hundred is one out of a hundred i had that happen to me did i tell you have i told you about this so alright so the hustle was supposed to sell the deal was supposed to close on february let's say fifth february fifth was their earnings call was also supposed to be on february fifth and that's a big deal for a variety of reasons but it there's like legal implications here you know the sec is involved so it could be it's as simple as like if i told someone that we were about to sell our deal wasn't big enough to do this it it did happen but it wasn't because of us but where the stock price can change significantly at the announcement and if i told someone and they make a big trade which has happened multiple times not with us but multiple times that there's insider of trading that's against a law you go to jail that didn't you know so there's like that implication there and there's also like other implications around like you know it just not like cool it's it's not like it makes you look bad well anyway we're supposed to close on let's say february fifth someone told ax axiom on february fourth i get an email from sarah fisher i think her name is someone leaked it to her i had only told i told a small amount of people who are helping me i think i told you who are like guiding me and i also had to get like some people to sign some paperwork and i explicitly said don't tell anyone this is a big deal i think i told them this will ruin the deal if you tell people which isn't true but you know i told them could've have and february fourth the day before were supposed to announced it i get this email from sarah and she goes i have a source saying that you guys are so selling and she told me a bunch of facts about the deal that i was like how on earth do you know this and it didn't back it leaked and i have we're not a big company like we're not we weren't big enough that this is like i don't i don't know why this should be gossip but it happened and it freaked me out big times and so i understand that perspective of not telling people certain things with my company now with han things are going well i'm not gonna talk about it too much when things are going well shut up i think that you should shut up yeah shut up and put shut up yeah yeah so i understand that perspective but it happened to us and it it drove me crazy and i was i i have i suspect it it was one of three people to this day i hold a grudge with that i guess all three just as preventative measures just preventative and i just stare at what they do and i'm like i'm plotting i'm plotting today a get to find out intel that they did it and b i already have my revenge plan and i'm just waiting and i check it i check what i check up on them constantly and those people probably know who they are because they see me looking at their linkedin all the time i wanna like i want them to know that i see them they're like oh and love us sam you know keeps you always keeps tabs on me what a good guy oh i'm looking i'm looking a lot and so i have a feeling who who it was but can you tell me about this black rifle story because i have a little bit of information about them too yeah this is got kind of fun moment so we so if few episodes here we did this once black this say what black rifle coffee is alright black rifle coffee it's a coffee brand so it's a coffee brand that i would describe as like it's like kind patriotic it's like an it's like has an american vibe to it and the customers are mostly middle ish america or southern and they they they are probably right of red like is kind of like a you know just to put it in a box which i'm sure they don't they don't love but like whatever just to for for for for simplicity sake started by veterans i think so it has four three of the four guys or four the five guys were former you know military marines whatever some something like that and so they and they're hampton members by the way there you go so they they start this thing and there's a kind of interesting origin story to this it becomes a it becomes a a really popular brand in fact like not only do they sell a lot of coffee they sold enough they sell enough product that they basically they they've gone public so let me see if they're stock as i think it's three or four billion dollar market cap still it's a little less now maybe the whole markets gone down so current market cap is one point one billion so they built a billion dollar d brand basically consumer consumer packages do you know do you know how they started one of the owners had a bunch of facebook pages i think he had like thirty facebook pages ranging like was like shit for moms to like veterans and he started selling a ton of stuff he was like look at all the stuff they're selling and they were like damn we should make our own thing and that's how the coffee business i i believe that's how it started so i did a call with him one of the one of the guys which one richard and so he because yeah i think he might be hampton too so he he had said something sully different he didn't talk about facebook pages he talked about youtube so he was like i was like what's your story he's like well i was like you know he's like wanted to be an actor goes to hollywood it's like whatever it's not really working out exactly great he's been in a couple things but he teaches himself to code he starts making iphone apps really early on in the iphone app store does pretty good with that ends up getting hired by like verizon or something like that to do like something on the marketing side for them and along the way he starts doing youtube fairly early on and so he's doing youtube videos and for the brand but and also for himself like personally doing youtube videos and he starts building up pretty big youtube following and then him and his buddy's start trying out different products and they're trying out you know this and mad and knows so we do i don't know what the examples were but it's like you know let's just pretend t shirt brand and the shoe brand and you know this this thing that thing hats and then coffee was one of them and the coffee one took off and that's kind of like how they they rallied around black rifle coffee to this day i think they do like tens of millions in merch sales not the coffee but just like people love the brand so much they'll buy the t shirts and so tens of millions of merch that there's t shirt come there's fashion companies that do tens of millions and that's their whole business this is like they're there's spin off business that's like how strong the the brand does in fact when i'm on the zoom call with them his background i'll put a picture on the youtube channel but it's just like a great example of like how to like this kinda of like the subtle branding that exists today when you're on a zoom call it's like your background your clothes like says everything about you because that's how we meet now right so you can actually bring a full story in about your home and everything and he's got like you know on the wall he's got his his cam thing he's got his gun he's got his like he's got all the stuff that's kinda like that same vibe that you know like how you know the american tough guy military veteran are like you know like that sort of vibe so we're talking he's telling me the great story and the reason where why we're talking is because he's like dude i was listening to the pod and i heard you talk about the total man thing hey he's like oh that's awesome something just hit me he's like i just love that i love the total man thing i went on i saw that somebody had the domain and i bought it when i was like like i didn't i was like i swear i looked and the domain wasn't available because no i bought it off somebody like i think he bought it probably like grand he's like yeah he's like i just wanna gift it to you and like if you wanna do something with it great that'd be awesome that's a baller i hope i can write this off or something but you know i just wanted to do this i was like hey baller move it's like went dark i think has done that for you like on your birthday he bought you your bought me a like a twenty thousand dollar domain it have been more right but it was copy that dot com he bought it a so baller move and and i was like what resonated about the total man thing he's like i don't know him he's like i just felt like the way you talked about like the way you sam talked about just like look it's important to me that i like stand for something my own i live by a code i care about fitness i care about these things like i care about being a man and like that's important to me and like you're right that society has really like pushed this thing that is if you're trying to be a man you're like toxic masculinity and it's like doesn't have to be like you don't have to be a jerk or you know like rude in any anyway but like why is it bad to like want to be badly i think it i just kinda like resonated with them and so we bought this we got a lot of ship that what's it you see people some people were angry about that and that's i think there was an understandable reason that they were angry which is we gave it and in we when we were talking about it we were like you know i think you're seeing the craving for this type of content and this movement embodied in people who take an extreme version of that like tate or stuff like that and people like people just immediately they hey hate annotate so much like i'm blinded by rage and they're like you guys are saying it's awesome and this total man thing is about annotate it's like no no i'm just saying like when you look at objectively that this guy's extremely popular is the number one most googled man in america right now yeah it it it's all under an umbrella and we're saying what is the appeal i think part of the appeal not the whole thing but part of the appeal as if this guy preach that you need to live like a like a fucking man and he's like you be hard don't be soft like mentally be hard be tough physically be hard be fit you know in your relations with people don't you know be a soft don't get pushed over don't keep apologizing and grove like you know carry yourself like a man and i was like i and i was like you know what we had said was that i think the pendulum has swung too far in one direction where a lot of people are preaching like a a sort of like i don't know what you would call it almost like a software sort of like a gender list like identity thing where it's you know it's not cool to be a man and i think that's building up a craving for people to wanna be a man and so whatever something resonated with that and he bought the domain and i was like yeah we should do something we should try to just make it an open source movement and and when i mapped it out i i a little five minute brainstorm the other day would ben and i was like yeah what is what does the total man mean and i was this is a good little branding lesson i was at first i i i went down the path of like what matters to me like what matters to me is like i like to have i care about like freedom like financial freedom i care about fitness i i'm trying to get more and more fit i wanna be somebody who is free to move their body in certain ways and it is is a a very fit individual but i also care about family and whatever and i was like oh i think i just described something generic i said what's the real appeal of this total man thing it's not this well well rounded appeals to actually nobody i said sam said something once on the podcast that made me laugh but i kinda like i wanted to make fun of and i also kinda like that he was like jealous and i wanted to make fun of him at the same time what was it you you said this thing it's gonna sound so simple it soon it sound dumb you you said it's important to me to be a fucking man like what what do you you saying isn't that omni what it you said that and you go yeah it's just important to me like to be a man and like to be like you know i don't you know how you explain it maybe didn't even explain it that the baby was the beauty i don't i don't remember exactly but i i say it's to sarah all the time i go i take care of bid i go we we take care of our business you know like all that doesn't made money that means you know like i'm gonna provide emotionally financially spiritually i got you like we i take care of business whatever you need i got you i'll i'll here for you yeah and it's like i'm not gonna i'm i'm gonna try my hardest not to get too emotional if you're emotional i'll i'll be a rock i'll treat you at respect i'm gonna take care i'm gonna handle business that's what we do exactly and i was like i think it's more that it's basically i i was like i don't think it's about this well rounded blah blah blah because it dilute the message well here and i also said and then you i'll let you go i said when i like to exercise i wanna be able to out run or what did i say i wanna either kill and eat everyone in the room or out run them i i stole that from gallo it's got gallo don't you feel that way and i was like feel that way what you talking about it's a ridiculous thought you took your most ridiculous thought and then said don't you feel that way sometimes no i've never once in my life looked around a room of men and been like i could eat and kill every all these people or out run them not once but when you said it it's stuck in my head it was provocative i wanted to make fun of you but i was also like you know there is a nugget of truth in this madness and that is where a real brand is built and so that was my my my little branding revelation to myself when i was doing this exercise around the what what should we do with this total man domain i was like honestly it's real simple it's about being a man being it's about men who want to be be a man what does that mean we don't need to explain it if somebody who handles their business you can come up with all the examples you want it's not a checklist that's not the total man attitude is a having some some predefined criteria checklist no in all situations be a man about it and that's what i was like that's take care of take care of business this that's a brand maybe be a man about it no matter what the situation be a man about it and i was like that's the total man philosophy you could apply that to whatever situation you're going through in life but what are you gonna do with it so is this gonna be i know jesse is who we're gonna have on soon i've been emailing with them he's got this really cool thing where it's like you run up this mountain a bunch of times and that's like climbing everest that's kinda cool i mean an event is the it's the obvious one but but you can go a bunch of ways here's here's here's the idea fresh off the dome you just said what do you wanna do with it you asked a great question my brain came up with an answer it's inspired by seventy five hard which is also a very total exactly and it's great total man don't know it's great join movements sometimes we create them so we're gonna create our own version this and it's gonna be the man month and what is the man month it's basically thirty days where you commit to to working towards being the total man in these like you know couple ways and it's like for thirty days we're doing cold shower we're doing fifty push ups right when we wake up our a hundred push ups right when we wake up first thing done you're oh you're late alright you're ten minutes more late go alright oh you can't do a hundred push ups i'm waiting keep going it we'll stay here till you're done alright alright so push ups in cold ups in cold i think is two we just need a third and it's gonna be you do these three things you're just gonna do them for thirty days straight and we're just gonna harden you up just gonna harden you up a little bit and so what's the third what's the third in this thing so well is this too soft you gotta you gotta you gotta tell you gotta tell the woman your life how you feel or the man or the man in your life you gotta tell you gotta you gotta be kind you gotta tell someone how you feel it could be kind it can be oh you've been avoiding confrontation it's time to say you gonna have a tough conversation conversation i have to have a tough conversation conversation oh you really appreciate somebody you better show it right and so you're gonna send a message voice memo mode text message to your mom to your coworker to whoever and we can do that every day i have a tough combo he'll do that every day for thirty days a tough conversation a tough shower do a tough morning that's i would do it alright well you gotta call it total right a total conversation total a total one and so i think it's good i i my my feedback you need to add two more things this my five or six my critique and my own thing there it's a little too easy i think it needs to be a little bit harder potentially it's got it has to be so hard that you're like ugh i can't believe i'm doing it like the seventy five hard thing it's pretty hard and people have to look at you and be like are you nuts yeah the cold thing the cold things you you're you're on something with the cold thing that is quite challenging but you you gotta have about you gotta have a few more hard things fifty push ups if you're fit i could do fifty push ups in one sitting yeah and that's should a lot more the the original thing i was thinking about because i was like what would it mean because a lot of this also inspired when z did the mu thing and i was like whoa sucks kind of been a man right now like what's going on no yeah this is that's pretty cool could i do that i don't i could do this i can't do a hundred pull ups like this is something i can't do alright alright so i started working towards it set the next morning i woke up and i did my little quarter mu i i ran the oh he runs a mile art i'm gonna run the quarter mile i a do a quarter of the push ups quarter of the pull ups quarter of squad hard right the run hard and i'll do it again until that's easy when that's easy i'm a make it harder right i'm just gonna keep inch ing it forward until i could do the full thing and i was like yeah that's the way to go it's progress right like it's about progress and so i i think you're right i think we kinda need to workshop the actual difficulty level because i think it to hit the brand right it's gotta be something that other people think you're crazy for doing yeah i i think that's great it can't be reasonable you could also be a little self serving and make it like a post on social media so you get that little hashtag owner by way no gotta show results when i charge money this isn't a program you buy it's just a movement you're either in or you're out that's it that's it you're in and if if you're in you gotta do it if you're out outdated out wait so i've known you for close to ten years now did you ever think that ten years ago you'd be about this life never never it feels good though right that feels good to me man yes it feels good i agree i think it feels great i when i i remember when i moved to san francisco i felt really like nervous i was like people would call me a redneck because i moved from tennessee i remember when i when i first got like in san francisco when you moved there you'd have to interview for an apartment because they had so many applications i remember going to like one of these interviews and people being like this was in two thousand twelve right i guess right after obama was there an election in two thousand twelve people were like who'd did you vote for they asked me who i voted for in order to like get this apartment and like so i i was like i gotta hide like which i i think that we voted for obama but i had hide a bunch of shit about myself not anymore things have changed my friend the the this stuff is actually a lot more popular if you go to san francisco things are a lot different muscles are are not quite in but they're more in than before and fitness is more in than before and hard conversations are more in before so i think it's good that you're kinda capitalizing along this we're we're not chasing trends here this is timeless people have been trying to be people have been trying to be hard for their whole like you know since the beginning of time in fact the only thing that turns me off is if this is a trend alright total man alright you're you're sounding harder already you have to wrap up now i see you're looking at your phone by the way i'm gonna do with my elizabeth holmes to start talking with a deeper voice on purpose dude people make fun of me on our youtube they say i've got a high voice yeah in the so so now i'm like thinking to my head gotta talk over too hey dude i think that's why mike tyson became mike tyson i think he had to over overcome for his voice and just turn into an absolute savage oh so you're agreeing i have a high pitched voice oh it's not low oh oh my god that's ridiculous that is ridiculous that is ridiculous alright that's the pod i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on a road less travel never looking back