Reaction To The Collapse of FTX and Sam Bankman-Fried

he predicts that sam beck freed is going to get life in prison and i thought that that was an incredibly interesting prediction you know bernie made off got you know hundreds of years there's this other po king guy that i was reading about based out of texas who also got like a hundred and fifty years and so it's not crazy that that could happen you know people who commit these hundreds of millions and billions of dollars po schemes they get life in prison alright we are live sean i'm in my my official crypto hoodie what is that this is fine oh yeah that's wonderful perfect hoodie for today this is all i've been wanting to talk about i purposely haven't texted you about this because this is all i wanna talk about but like maybe just get like a three to five minute background on what's going on i think you're the guy that should be doing that and then i wanna tell you some of the more interesting points that i think maybe haven't been covered or are less covered than i think are either hilarious or interesting okay great and by the way should we check if my i have a twenty five thousand dollar withdrawal that's that we will see we'll will see if f has any money left i'm gonna check right now and see if it's sc drew what do you think yes or no do i get my twenty five grand out i think you i think you probably got it i did it on november ninth it's now november fourteenth it said it would happen by today and it is not in the bank account alright there we go just another disappointment okay so why don't i have my deposit actually it's not even a deposit they they advertise with us and so they paid me inside fx and i was just lazy and never went withdrew it okay so basically what's happened though here's the what happened for those who aren't following it that closely f which is a big crypto exchange it's a place to go to buy sell different cryptocurrencies it was i think the number two or three largest exchange in the world used mostly internationally because it was kinda like you know people all around the world wanna buy i think ninety plus percent of people buying crypto are international and so f huge coinbase but bigger than coinbase bigger than coinbase base bin is number one i think there's technically something number two but really it's like bin number one f t x two and sort of like coinbase base and the others you know come after that okay so fc which was this blue chip thing and it was seen as this like you know mega success story you would see top investors in the world that we're investing in this some sequoia which is like you know a preeminent vc firm plus like you know fifty others we're investing in this he's on the cover of fortune magazine and it says you know the next jpmorgan because he's you know this this this young guy who becomes one of the wealthiest men in crypto they say f t at its peak was worth about thirty two billion dollars and this company is only like four years old so it was had this like crazy explosive growth in valuation sam was said to be worth sixteen billion dollars himself he's this genius trader and now entrepreneur he's this crazy eccentric guy the guy looks goofy hell he's a he's a vegan who doesn't wear shoes and gives away all of his money if they're effective alt and whatever you know he's got this sort of character that everybody wants to talk about of which i bought into very easy to buy buy into you know this like you crazy person who sleeps on the floor of his desk and doesn't sleep it on the bean bag believe in normal stuff and he's at twenty nine or thirty worth oh north of ten billion dollars and he previously made a billion plus by doing arbitrage with like korean crypto just some crazy shit i bought into it so that's the background we all go on this this that most people are on that train of like okay i guess that's what it is and then suddenly last week there's a series of events we can go into however much detail we want but there's a series of events that basically causes a bank run on so users lose confidence that f t x is solvent which means they say i gotta get my money off fifty x just as i did you go you hit the withdrawal button just in case there's any weird stuff going on we've seen many things crashed in twenty twenty two in crypto luna was one voyager celsius there was a a handful of these things that crashed so people said better safe than sorry let's start withdrawing our money that creates a solvent liquidity crisis for they don't have the money to give and everyone's like where the hell the money why don't you have the money that's my deposit that's my funds you know you go to the bank you expect them to have your money and so f does not have their money he comes out he says everything is fine all the assets are fine guys this is just you know a hoax from a competitor this is a a competitor trying to f with us blah blah blah finances is that competitor that he's talking about so he basically saying oh the big the big the number one guys coming after us but we're fine guys don't don't panic people still panic and in fact he was lying turns out there's basically this guy was a giant fraud you know if you believe all the things that have been coming out so allegedly able will to say the word allegedly this guy was lying deceiving everybody using customer funds etcetera etcetera f t x goes under it goes from a twenty to thirty billion dollar company to a company that is now declaring bankruptcy billions of dollars there's like a ten billions there's like ten billion dollars worth of customer funds that are gone vaporize una unattended for this guy's flee in the country and you know all kinds of crazy stuff so that i'll just set that as the background and now we can go into whatever parts you wanna go into alright so there's been a lot of interesting things that have happened and i wanna name a few you know there's the story is a week old now so a lot of the the stuff has been covered on the facts we can talk about the facts if we want but i wanna talk about like some things that i think haven't been covered first the things happening on twitter are amazing this is all unraveling in real time on twitter one of the more interesting and funny ones there's a twitter handle called autism capital the most based citizen journalism in crypto we are currently following the f t saga but please be patient we have autism that's their that's their that's our source of truth by the way that's it that is who we are reviewing on it at times of trouble right now but listen it's hilarious and i think it a lot of it's right it's sort of like tmz tmz is like considered trash because they sit their fast paced and they say a lot of stuff that eventually everyone's they have to rec can't and say oh no you know we got this wrong but you know what they fucking nail it they called prince being dead or be about to die they call all this other stuff and that is exactly what's happening there's so there's all these interesting things that autism capital is tweeting like sb spf that's this guy sam the founder sb spf did a master class you know the company masterclass on trading and it was set to release in december and it's already been filmed that's like an interesting thing they tweeted another interesting thing they tweeted is basically sbs right hand woman was this woman named caroline who rumors are that they also were like sleeping together she ran the hedge fund so the sb spf owned so all this weird collusion she has a tumble that autism capital found and it it says she had a post call the world optimization where her kin is men who control most major world governments like that's another exactly it's like people still always say oh i want this but what i want it's like a man who's like control society's governments things like that it's like what the hell are you talking about yeah do dude so i've i've followed them like we i mean if you're encrypt you follow these people you you you know these are the a sam was considered one of the like you know more blue chip of course there's always some people that are like this guy's full of shit or i don't trust this guy or whatever but they're like the this small small small minority the majority of people believed that f t x was this fast growing company and that sam was this like really interesting really smart founder and then you knew the the one part that was always shady so for example when they advertise with us they asked us to write a story on f and we we're like write the story about how you guys grew so fast what tactics you used why you know why why grew hey we write the story and then i mean and ben we're talking we were like you know stories all like you know perfectly rosy and that makes sense this is like a sponsor like you know deep dive basically but like you we should put in what are some of the concerns so even if nothing else just to like balance out the story so that it's like not literally just a fluff piece so we were like well what are some of the criticisms and one was like there well before he started f t he started this company called alameda research and alameda research not a research company it was a trading company they just called it research so it sounded a little more serious but and the rumors are like an autism capital i think also shared this they're like well sam said he wanted to call it alameda research because that just had an an official sounding name and he also didn't want people to know that they were trading yeah and in the entrepreneurial circles it was like oh great little growth hack right you know it's like when you said when we wanted to get advertisers for the hustle i would first just write a fake ad for some other company that i'd go to their competitor i'd be like hey you're you want the spot and like you know and there's a fake till you make it that's acceptable and then there's a fake till you're a fraud which is where this guy like went it went totally wrong so so he had this trading company hit the legend is basically that at the time bitcoin was trading at let's say ten grand in america but in other countries where it was harder to access bitcoin there was a slight premium people were willing to pay more for a bitcoin because it was so hard to access because the government was you know maybe not allowing exchanges to run there properly or whatever so in japan and korea everybody saw this bitcoin would be ten thousand here it'd be eleven thousand or twelve thousand there and so the the legend of the origin story for t is that sam saw this he was one of the people that exploited this arbitrage opportunity he you know he basically hustle went korea and set up this like logistics exchange where they could buy a million dollars of bitcoin here sell it for a slight premium there wire the money back and do it again the next day just keep recycling the money and that they made tons of money and nobody really understood exactly how like there was some plot holes in this but it was like i know i guess these guys are just smarter than us but like it's like wait you made a billion dollars doing this now that sounds a little unreasonable so you might have made what hundreds of millions but where did you get the seed capital for this like you weren't rich so like how much initial money went into this and there was never like some clarity that so that was a little bit strange but nobody what what what's the answer to that what's the answer to that well now it appears that the answer might have been that that just never even happened that might have been a complete fabrication or they might have done it at a much smaller scale nobody know nobody still knows the answer because this guy's like you know on the run or you know hiding you know right now so so nobody does answer that but the the bigger part the third part that we wrote about was like well alameda research when f launched as an exchange every exchange needs liquidity when buyers and sellers come to the the site they need to be able to quickly get their order filled so you usually have a market maker or a liquidity provider basically who sits there and says i'll i'll be the one who buys and sells things and i'll take a small a small fee for providing that liquidity to the exchange so it runs better so alameda was the liquidity provider is the market maker for f t and so knew that and i was like okay cool but it's like wait but sam owns both he owns the exchange and he owns the market maker isn't there some conflict of interest so you know like couldn't you know if there's is a hedge fund basically that can go buy things but then f t x can list those coins they'll know what they're gonna list so there's a little bit of weird there's a it's a conflict of interest it's a little bit of you know cousins kissing there and so we had wrote about that we go you know they have this kissing cousins thing that people don't really like or nobody knows the true extent to this relationship between the two and they were like hey we need you to take that out and we were like well we don't really think we should take it out we think we're gonna keep it in and they were like okay cool like but just pause this whole story the crypto market prices are going down we don't wanna be brag about how well we're doing right now so we were like okay you paid us you don't want us to run the story we'll never run the story so we never ran it but i remember at that time a little a small red flag of like i'm surprised that instead of clarifying the relationship they're like don't talk about that and so that was a little bit of a red flag but you know like most things when you have when you're reading nine out of ten things are are just saying how this is the wonder kid and this is the best best company and then you have this one little red flag you sort of brush it aside or at least that's what i did which is a mistake that's by the way that the the person that you worked with there are they still there nobody's there dude the company done yeah but the person that you worked with what are they list on their linkedin now i i wasn't working directly with mike i don't know the guy's name i it's all you know bam kendall was running the milk road really so i i was just trying like i would do the writing and then he would talk to the guy or whatever so i don't know the guy's name but anyways that was just like one small thing and so what ended up happening whether the the sort of cause of this was essentially that f t x was illegally and it was lying to customers and was illegally taking customer money giving it to alameda through either a loan or just like straight up funneling the money there and then alameda was going in trading using customer money trying to turn a profit and was actually just like kinda bad at trading it was losing money and so then they didn't have the money to return when all the customers wanted their money out and when they you know quote unquote lent them the money the collateral that they put up to take the loan right like like let's say users put in a more like solid currency let's say like bitcoin alameda borrows that bitcoin to go trade and they put up in return as collateral f t token which is fta own internal token that doesn't have like real that much real value so when they lost all the bitcoin for just for like to make things simple here when they lost all bitcoin all had was the shitty f token that wasn't with those was worthless so now there's no there's a huge hole they lent basically ten billion dollars out and then couldn't return it and so they went they went under and basically now every day there's more leaks about how crazy this situation was how these guys were liars how they were doing this intentionally how they were doing drugs how they were you know fifteen people sleeping together in this like mega man mansion while he pretended to be this like big philanthropist and maybe he's an actor for the chinese state and who other like crazy theories all around and you know nobody knows the truth and this guy's coming out and yesterday he tweets for the first time and everyone's like oh my god here he comes and he tweets out like a thread and then you know like you start a thread with one and then used to say the first point then you're gonna say two and then the second point he tweets out one and all he says is what and then he sees said and then he does nothing and then think he tweets out two and then the letter h what does he mean and then just now an hour ago he tweeted out a and then eleven minutes ago p and maybe he's spelling his like what happened i don't know what he's trying to do i don't know what's going on don't know maybe he's having a break or something like i mean a breakdown he might have been i knew a guy who like was having a breakdown and you know he he had to be institutional and he was tweeting crazy shit you know like and this is how it started maybe the guy's going through something like that there's this there's another interesting thing that happened with the cha the all in pod each and this is another thing that i saw i think also autism capital they like clip this clip and on the all in pod cha who has a whole bunch of other questionable things happening but he said something interesting where he was looking at investing in the f t x and he was like you know it's kinda weird how you guys are kinda self dealing i think you need a board and i think you need rules around what you can and it can't not do with this and he said the person working at f t x call them back and literally said hey go fuck yourself and just hung up and that was the end of of the call yeah by the way i think there's seventy percent chance to entire stories bullshit i think boss is generally shit and you know so so i i do not believe this story for for for what it's worth but dude have you seen the videos so the the woman named i listen and i guess my point would be if you knew that something amped up was going on with this company the most popular company in the in the world at that time in crypto and that if you knew that this was messed up like that there was fraud going on or deception or any of this stuff you would have said something right like so maybe what he said is i don't know don't i feel comfortable with this but i feel like he's trying to take some victory lap of being like i did do the video in the clip i believe cha said he i i i believe he he put emphasis on this he goes he literally said go fuck yourself no no that part i believe i believe that they would say that it's a smallest part where he goes i called them they pitch me i said this doesn't make much sense but okay i'll have my guys look into it and my guys looked it we gave them a recommendation you need government you need to do this you need do that you need and like they seem to fuck yourself i don't know something about that picture being so white nike you know race more red flags to be as well but a few other interesting things basically another twitter thing these guys have been doing these like marathon twitter spaces one of the guy's name is mario and he hosted this twitter space where elon pop popped in and someone was like hey elon what did you think when you first met the guy spf goes as well people were telling me when i was buying twitter that he had lots of money lots of money but my bullshit meter was red lining and even all these major investment banks were like yeah this guy walking on water he's the best he's got he has money and i just didn't think that he had the money and i actually believe a story to be true and it's just like was interesting because from an outside you think well these billionaires all all know each other they know what's up and you know like they they they know if someone does or doesn't have money they also does they do or do not know if someone's legit and elon is like i had no idea if he was legit but he didn't seem legit to me but ever else said he was and i thought that was like really interesting i was like oh i thought this was like a club where you out like show financials to get in inside of and turns out that's not true and also the balls of sb spf to be buying stadiums to be hiring tom brady and all these other like you know larry david these huge celebrities this guy took this guy took a scam to the next level you know so much hub to be tweeting or dm elon me and like hey i'm i'm down to put up three billion for buying twitter it's crazy so so did you see the text messages that leaked of that yeah and what did the elon say he goes so just they were so basically the the text message at leaked that's on this awesome twitter handle called internal tech emails so you can go check it out there it's michael grimes so i think is like the head of it's like a bank yeah i i think he's like one of the top guys at morgan stanley so what's his what's his actually he's a managing director at morgan stanley so he text elon he goes hey you have five minutes for a meeting that i think you'll wanna take elon it's like i'll call you half an hour my gosh perfect he goes sam bank freed is why i'm calling he links to link of fan baker which is basically a link to a story that like sam baker freed is he was an effective alt meaning his goal was to make as much money is possible so that he could give it away that was the best way that he could help and cause like positive change for society was by maximizing how much money you can make and then giving it away which is like why there's all the memes of like you did it you you took all our money and you gave it away you know like wow and so then elon just responds two question marks like what and he goes i'm backlog with a mountain of critical work matters is this urgent he goes he wants one to five billion serious about partnering with you same security you own not urgent unless you wanted him to fly out tomorrow he goes he could do five billion if everything is vision lock he would do engineering for the social media blockchain integration founded he founded an f t x he believes in your mission major democratic donor he was a number two largest democratic donor forty fifty millions something like that he goes so i thought it was worth an hour tomorrow he said he could shake hands on five five billion if you like him and i think you will can you talk with whatever but it you know it could get us five billion in equity in an hour he's like trying to sell it like take this meeting replies blockchain twitter isn't possible as the bandwidth and latency requirements blah blah you know basically a blockchain twitter won't work so this doesn't make any sense and then that is says elon disliked could do five billion if if if if vision block would do is engineering for social media blockchain integration and then the baker got it i'll four the equity interest with this other guy instead but even if there's not the blockchain piece he's interested investing in twitter and your mission but we can we can put them on the sideline for now elon goes as long as i don't have to have a labor boris blockchain debate is honestly one of the cooler things that elon has done or said in this entire thing which is like alright i'll meet the coat crypto bro just don't make me fucking i don't wanna get into hour long talk about blockchain please and that i thought was hilarious you then he goes the sam actually have three billion liquid and then the guy goes was like yes i think sam hasn't he actually set up to ten at one point but in writing he said up to five he's into you and he said the blockchain only if you're interested not gonna push it blah blah blah this other super rich guy orlando referred him and then he's like we can push them to next week but i believe you'll like them ultra genius and do builder like your formula built f t from scratch after mit physics second to bloomberg and donations to biden campaign and so you the the grimes what's this guy's name mark grimes dude he's on the grind right now you're you're fire bro we are fire actually we're we're calling him mark crimes instead of my for whatever reason the we did this in the milk road we were like you know it's just it's hard to report bad news every day but it's like hey bad news fx biggest a change ins solving bad news wasn't even just a mis you know in good faith it was actually fraud and deception everything and that's what it looks like oh bad news the money that they would have otherwise had to pay out the remaining customer deposits oh somebody just hacked it last night took six took the last six hundred million there's actually zero in the bank accounts now so there is nothing left for anybody because a guy literally just did this and oh by the way there's a plane going flying his private jet is flying to argentina tonight we're tracking it here and it's like dude this is horrible and we're like what are we gonna do we're like we're no longer calling this guy sb spf nickname are for winners this guy is now samuel we're calling him as government name and like mister bank no not even no not even he's samuel from now on our son software is the worst have you heard of hubspot see most crm are a cobb together mess but hubspot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous i think i love our new crm our software is the best hubspot grow better we i wanna ask you about milk roads engagement but first you tweeted something and i agree with basically you're talking about like a it just like i lose trust in so many things i'm losing so spf or not sb spf f t x owned i think ten percent of robinhood hood which i have money in not a huge song i think he personally him and alameda owned the the not do something of fit i'm gonna sell i'm gonna i'm getting all my money out of robinhood hood it this that i don't i i don't trust anything i don't trust any new startup up that is in banking i by default don't believe you whereas before i would be like oh this is kinda cool i guess like you have mass a mastercard logo on there i guess you're okay yeah i'm not cheap innovation anymore yeah no fuck that i'm going to e trades i'm getting my money off of robinhood hood i to all the people who i said oh you don't you know you just don't get the disrupt i'm sorry you are right i was wrong i'm sorry daddy you are you are absolutely right i do not i i think i trust coinbase for some reason because the guy brian seems a little bit legitimate and they are publicly traded so they do report quarterly but i guess robinhood trust somebody right like you gotta trust something so for example i was like dude i'm getting all my crypto off robinhood at the minimum because i had way back i had bought crypto on robinhood and then i was like wait i can't just send it to another wallet it's like no because robinhood actually wasn't buying crypto you're buying crypto derivative i was like what the fuck why do they say buy bitcoin like this is not bitcoin this is a bitcoin tracking derivative it's not even you don't even own the coins then they was like okay now you could after years so i was like you could transfer it off so i was like okay i'll get to that when i get to it and i bought a bunch of eth on there and i was like i was like too i'm getting it all out of there i go hit send it to ethan wallet it's like oh you've exceeded your five thousand dollar max i was five thousand dollar max every day you're gonna you five thousand first of all why second of all that's bullshit this will take forever to get all my money off this thing it's just like yet had another you know yet had another strike against you know innovation i'm the old guy on the lawn now shaking my fist saying you know all all you ras you know stop playing with my money it's like and it's not like it's like crypto there's it's not like bitcoin at anything it's like the people building the companies around this that are literally like committing fraud or taking so much reckless risk that they're that their their whole exchange goes ins solvent overnight or gets hacked that's insane so i was like you know what i'm gonna self custody i mean take this portion move it over here do this over here you know i have this kind of strategy i was like i'm gonna move more into self custody and our buddy greg was like i was like what do you think man i should do this and or he's like well i was like what do i trust more myself or one of these exchanges he's like he's like you know i was like i said what would feel worse if i just lose my crypto or if these guys lose my crypto and he's like well let me ask you a different question how many airpods do you own like how many airpods have you lost he's like if you can't keep your airpods you really think for ten years you're gonna like that lose your crypto i was fair point it's like you know okay cycling through options of how to hold this stuff so that hey i don't lose it but b you know i'm not trusting anybody luckily i wasn't really that affected by f t but like you know a lot of people were and that's extremely you know sad disappointing and like those people are you know they're traumatized right that's like they got daddy issues now they got trust issues they're they're they are not coming back to the game and just being like yep i understand even if you intellectually understand that okay this guy was literally a criminal right or like you know somebody who was you know doing something that was it that was wrong mis inappropriate user funds even if you acknowledge that that was one bad actor so i dude there's a lot of bad actors in crypto and how the hell am i supposed to know i it's not like you get to go sit and audit the books of these companies it's not like you get they they say they say one thing they do another like twenty four hours before went and solve it the ceo comes out and says all assets are fine we do not lend out customer deposits twenty four hours later gone and turns out the scout line well dude an interesting thing about san francisco and silicon valley where we both kinda started our careers is it's all based on trust so there's like a lot of times where you give people money you just wire the money without contracts you you pump people up and make intros even though you don't entirely slide deck and you say okay this is what they're saying the numbers are you don't say okay need your you know i need to go into your database and i need to go check see this oh i need to check like i need to check that this database number is also not fudge by you know bots or you know fake downloads codes or whatever oh i also need to check that your pixel is not firing them twice or you're not like hiding costs over here with your shell companies you don't know all that stuff and it's tremendous this time to do that this whole thing or our little world is based on this set of trust and you and i have both kind of got started right when a great economy was was kicking off and i basically didn't ever think people were lying and that was incredibly naive and now i feel even though i haven't really been burnt by this but i do feel i'm like oh i don't i don't really trust anyone anymore and i think that everyone might be lying just a little bit and it has changed my perspective on that one hundred percent and so i used to see robinhood as like oh you're the underdog like you you're you know you're on my side it's like oh no you're you you definitely can lose my money i i don't i don't i don't believe you what about milk road so for the new listeners milk sean started of the thing called milk road it's a daily email for crypto with hundreds of thousands of people is your engagement skyrocketing or people just telling you to fuck off because they they hate the whole industry no it's this engagement is very high because during a crisis a lot of people wanna read i think what we will see though is over the coming months that's not gonna bode well for us right like even if engagements high right now during you know the play by play craziness of what's going on right we're getting you know record open rates and shit like that you know what happens three months from now as people are just sort of disillusioned the news is over the crisis is over it's like you know dude nobody's talking about ukraine right now the in my world like day to day people aren't talking about ukraine every day i remember when that shit broke out is like my mom my sister everybody i knew was like glued to their phone watching these videos fucking getting z tattoos and being like oh my god i can't believe this my heart goes out thoughts some prayers by one then you're in day ninety eight and you're like your thoughts and prayers go back to like you i i i wish this whatever you know just whatever your daily life was you like sort of revert you stop caring as much in the same way like i think what's gonna happen for us with the milk road is that engagement with spikes during this time but actually it's not good for anybody in the industry when somebody breaks like custom and customer trust gets shaking this badly that's sets it back like potentially years oh yeah the i mean it it's not a question is is it set by years it's it's is this gonna ruin it i mean like that that's how big this is in my in my mind yeah and i i think that one's probably not if it was good like if crypto is gonna fail i don't think it's gonna fail because of this like we've seen actually before the number one exchange go down before it's just like as the industry grows disasters cost a lot more money and they affect a lot more people like we've actually seen literally this disaster before with mount go and then there's a that netflix documentary i've talked about on the pod about a canadian exchange that was literally doing this you would go in it was like same thing guys about bo genius everybody loves them media loves him starts this exchange becomes the biggest one in canada turns out there was literally never anything of the deposits like he would click buy big bitcoin you'd send them the money you would never buy big bitcoin he would just show the number in your on your computer screen would yeah you got ten and he would just take the money go do whatever he wanted with it and it was literally just like a criminal he was lying and like anything his own death that he mysteriously died or faked his own death and you know sam baker freeze tweeting out one letter at a time here is you know who knows what's what's what's going on with this guy too so like we've literally seen this exact disaster before but it's higher profile it's louder it affects more people and now instead of losing millions tens of millions hundreds of millions now it's billions that we're playing with that that got lost here so i think it's definitely bad but i don't think this is like the death blow crypto i think if it's like same thing with startups like startups don't usually die due to competition you don't you you don't die because you got hunted you died because you starved and i think if it happens for if crypto dies it's gonna be for the same reason it's gonna die not because f t blew up and then people just all gave up and you know decide i don't trust this thing ever again forever and ever and ever and everybody decided that it's that really the the use case of the utility wasn't strong enough to draw people in continually over time and like maybe you know the use case just wasn't big enough or it wasn't strong enough there wasn't product market fit so i think startups and and in this case crypto it'll die if it dies up starvation not of competition you know who one of the big winners here is martin sk so basically martin ellie farmer bro what to jail for a couple years for scamming his farm farm pharmacy company or something like that pharmaceutical company or something like that you know finance guy but very smart i think a very smart guy and he has a subs stack now that is incredibly interesting and he's been doing twitter spaces where he's been like commenting on this and he's like well you know jail not that bad like you know like he's saying all this funny stuff and he wrote in his subs stack this morning that he predicts that sam beck freed is going to get life in prison and i thought that that was an incredibly interesting prediction you know bernie mad got you know hundreds of years there's this other po scheme guy that was reading about based out of texas who also got like a hundred and fifty years and so it's not crazy that that could happen you know people who commit these hundreds of millions and billions of dollars pop a po schemes they get life in prison which is kinda crazy that you can get life in prison for a non nonviolent crime but his prediction is that he's gonna go to prison forever so the en ron guy en ron got twenty four years as his sentence let's see bernie made off well he bernie died in prison you know he got sentence when he was in the seventies but i think he got hundreds of fifty years was like the you know the the the headline number and then i think one of the another big po guy i think i believe his last name was sanford mark sanford i believe he at age sixty something got a hundred and fifty years so it's you know regardless of when you get that hundred and fifty years it's a life sentence and so like it doesn't believe it doesn't appear that this is literally a po his scheme po team works in a specific way like i think made off basically would like he like had all the money and like one checking cap did you know this he had like a billion dollars in a chase account it was just like whenever somebody requested who would pay them out out of that and and you know show these great returns or whatever but in this case basically the the effects the same here you know like someone he defeated people to billions and billions of dollars exactly and not only that but the interest you know bernie made off i don't know if you noticed this know this but do you know that he was the head of the scc for a minute of the security issues yeah he was that or it was either that or nasdaq i think i think he was the head of the scc and he had and so he was like a big deal you know and so so that was like you know bold on his part but s spf did this in a even bolder way because he was mainstream you know he owned or they they had the naming rights to the miami heat and they had commercials with tom brady and so to me it's if i'm a judge i'm like dude you're even you're you're rubbing it in all of our faces this is more egregious than bernie mad who was a little bit more quiet about it so you're just like taunting me while you're stealing so of course i'm gonna like get you as hard as i possibly can right yeah yeah it it's is bad i mean a very very visible very very painful very like all day i mean just the the goal of people i mean this guys a real motherfucker for would he is that's like a crazy crazy thing to do and you know there's like i could see one version of it which is basically the there's one version of it which is he believed that this would like he wasn't trying to steal people's money he was like you know what like alameda like basically what people think is that alameda when luna blew up alameda lost a bunch of money and in order to save alameda from having to like liquidate everywhere he's like okay let me just loan you this money you will make it back because you're good and then i'll like make it all good in the end nobody no harm no foul i know all that i shouldn't do this you didn't tell me about this that's like one version of reality that could exist there is some evidence against that but like hard to know you know we're talking about like autism capital as a source right hard to know if this evidence is like anybody just like making a screenshot of whatever you know like that's it's hard to know at this point so you know so so basically there's one virtual reality that's that which is he got stuck in a in a in a in a spot where he was gonna lose a bunch of money and his thing was gonna go under and it was gonna be very public and bad and he tried to cover it up and he kinda panicked he made a terrible decision and he did something that was wrong and illegal and against terms service at least for for f t and but he he intended to like make it all right and then there's another version which was as of now that does not seem like a very likely scenario and what part makes what what evidence makes you say that like was like you know that people were saying that like he was he's allegedly none of this has been proven that he's been wiring himself for five hundred million dollars and that coincidentally the f t has been hacked things like that like i i i don't i don't feel as though that that is getting be the outcome yeah so let's say whatever there's some probability that that that's what happened there's another probability the more egregious possibility is like basically it's like screw everybody we're gonna take the money we're to funnel it over here i'm gonna grease you know he lives in the bahamas he's like i'm gonna grease all the politicians here i'm gonna grease the politicians in united say it'd be the second biggest donor to biden and i'm gonna you know go to there's like this crazy stuff for like his the girl who was running alameda her dad was like worked with gary gu and who's like the sec chair like that's why spf and ken kept meeting and like we're about to pass this build that was gonna be very bad for d defy but very good for f t and it was like all this like you know game to basically like lock in this like money machine that he was gonna you know continue to use for some benefit in alameda was like abusing the information that they had front running the trades there's like the like everything was evil and then there's like the slippery slope type thing like if you watch the there documentary for example i shouldn't say documentary like you know the third fucking movie you know whatever the the show they make it look in that like what actually happens is she's wants to do something great she's sort of delusional about her own abilities thinks that i'm an entrepreneur i could prove everybody wrong thinks that the technology will work thinks that she's buying time to fake it until you make it to get it to work and then at some point gets so trapped in the lie that she just goes all in on the lie because at that point like her entire image ego company fortune is based on this working and she's like you know eventually starts just you know actually lying in committing crimes and so like that that became like but that wasn't the intention day one is like i'm gonna do the scam i'm gonna scam everybody and so i think that's the the only question here but in regardless the result is the same scam happened whether he intended to do the scam from day one or halfway through got in a spot panicked and it started july and started to to commit these you know sort of i don't know if i call crimes but you know do what he did to add to the story do you know who this kid's parents are yeah they're like ethics teachers at stanford dude do they teach they course they are they're they're per they're both professors of law at stanford law school i i think they also like taught it yale i mean so they're supposed to be like no they and also literally teach ethics yeah in relation to to law from a legal perspective i believe and they the dad i think joseph is the same he is involved in f t where he like help them race raise some money so if this guy is full on lying criminal crazy man screw the i mean screwing be a lot of money is is is bad also screwing your family and your parents is the worst right so like the this whole entire story you know it hurts a lot of people but in terms of just like story arc and soap opera it is just the best it is the best are you not entertained yes if nothing else is entertaining did even like crypto you know i'm i'm i've been like the crypto what what is your let's put it on the record here what is your prediction for crypto not f it's pretty clear we're kinda we don't know the details exactly what happened we know the result for crypto what do you think is the do you think this all just goes to zero do you think this sort of peters out for a long time do you think this rises again what is your prediction i think keep in mind my perspective here is only emotional so and and basically i learned from crypto just from talking about you so everything that i've learned about crypto it's been live on this podcast so i would say i'm not incredibly educated i think that it's gonna peter out for the next five to ten years i think that n t's are gonna go to zero i think that all the alt coins basically ethereum and bitcoin are the only ones that are gonna ever have the chance of being interesting virtually all of them go out of business i think that coinbase based stays in business and actually might grow because people are like okay fine you're the only place that i can trust i think that like luna and all this other stuff i that one's already dead but like all these other like other one hundred percent go to zero and never work and i think that this guy gets sentenced to twenty five to fifty years in prison alright there's the prediction what do you think i predict bad news bears for the next couple years is my guess i don't know the time there but just gonna guess a couple years crypto winter i mean i think that's probably true for the entire economy right now but i think particularly worse for crypto but i do think that in the end crypto is real and is gonna work and you know i know that's gonna sort but maybe now unpopular maybe it was always unpopular i'm not sure i don't really pay too much attention to that but yeah i do think bitcoin ethereum and then replacements to some of the other use cases that that we're built are going to rise and i i think some of things that are totally true i think this guy goes down i think coin based as well i think that most of the current coins that are completely over valued go to zero but i do think that bitcoin in ethereum are here to stay and i think that they won't be the only two forever i think there will be new ones i come and and do well in the future but i think it's a i also think it's another dance cycle anyone who raised money and they had the word web three in their deck i think virtually one hundred percent of them are gonna fail and not work not necessarily because they are bad entrepreneurs or because their products are stupid although i do think that is the case in the vast majority of them i think that they're just gonna be laughed out of like existence and it's just like they were never working with you like this is like to like consumers because they're ugly which they are not because they're dumb certainly so because they're get laughed out the room but yeah if if that because they're ugly it's that because they're dumb it's just because they're pathetic i think that's gonna happen not all but but close to all yeah well that's true i think for most startups alright i gotta go visit up my door to keep knocking alright that's a pod