Producer Ben Had A 90-Minute Phone Call With Mr. Beast, Hypnosis and More

alright let's do this i've got a few things to talk about but first sean let's talk to ben ben had a big guy what why are we even talking we are now the sides show we're the openers actually for the main event ben ben made event wilson what's up dude how are you feeling well let let let's set even tell them why we gonna hype it up so here here's the here's the setup up sean and i were chilling last night and we get a text from ben and he says hey look who just followed me and it was mister beast and i think it's so for context everyone ben is our producer here ben has a podcast called how to take over the world it's it's fairly popular but growing quickly so your twitter only has like a thousand or two thousand followers right four thousand four still yeah four thousand so we get this message and you said hey look who look who just started following me and it was mister beast and sean and i made front of you saying like oh you know that's nothing no big deal then you send a text message to us saying been on the phone with them for the past hour and a half and we were like wait what and we don't really know we don't know anything else so yeah of course there's i'm gonna be some stuff here that you can't talk about but what happened yeah so i got back from you talk with my in laws on saturday so i was like feeling a little jet lagged i was about to go to bed early getting into bed with my wife and i looked out on my phone and i've got a notification says mister beast followed you and my first thought is like oh yeah mister beast followed me like mister underscore beast hey give me my social security number and i'll v mo you five thousand dollars so i literally i saw it and i just put down my phone and like keep just like chatting with my wife or whatever and then i picked it up five minutes later and i look at it and i go i i actually don't see the underscore i don't i don't see anything wrong with this and i click on it and it's verified and it's mister beast and he just followed me and i was like oh that's weird like you said i only have four thousand followers like it's not it's not a normal thing for like i just you know pick mister beast and then i get a dm like two minutes later and he's like hey i listened your podcast i think it's cool i'd love to chat sometime i don't want anything from you i just like wanna learn and i was like so i respond i say cool yeah let's talk anytime i'm free like anytime you wanna talk next week you sound like you're playing at cool but inside what's going on yeah so inside i was like i actually even outside i was like my wife is katie is like katie katie katie what this start happening and she was like what and was like mister beast following me she's like what's a mister beast and i was like no i i gotta call someone i was when i texted you guys because was like she doesn't get it i need to talk to someone who gets it katie leave the room yeah like hey go give me a twelve year old stat who could have a discussion about the katie to get your nephew on the line yeah she's give me if i talk somebody about her once i explained who he was she was very very excited she was she was very excited so i i messaged him and i'm like trying to play it cool like oh yeah cool i could i could make time no problem and should i run or crawl to you and then he hits me with to sean and he's like how about right now and i'm like sitting there like in my boxer in my bed and i'm like yep i am one hundred percent ready to talk right now call call me and so he called me and apparently he does this at night he goes for walks and he just calls people who he thinks are interesting and he tries to like download their brains and learn anything that he can so we talked for like almost two and a half hours at the end and he's a very cool dude and i learned a lot of cool stuff well what like well and yeah i mean what did you guys talk about we talked about a like it was you know it was it was just like a personal conversation so i'm not gonna share everything that we talked about but oh i mean what for me the the coolest thing he did was yeah i've i've known for a long time i need to take my podcast to youtube and i got to ask him like okay so how should i do this and he basically walked me through how he would do it and how would he do it general game plan but basically i was saying you should i do segments should i do clips should i animate it should i do me on the screen and what he said is do the full episodes you probably want to edit the scripts a little bit so that it's not quite so casual because podcast podcasts like you listen to as you're washing the dishes like it doesn't matter that it's not gripping every second of the of the audio but for youtube like it does need to be gripping every second like really needs to pull people second by second so he said you need to edit your script a little bit for video do animations do it highly produced and do the full episodes like forty five minutes do an hour long that was the basic strategy and then he gave me some comps some channels i should make it similar to and him some how up on what did he wanna ask you right because he called you so you know was he looking for something was he just saying hey tell me about you know i'm walking around i wanna hear yeah i'm listening to your podcast and i decided i'd like you to say it out loud to meet live go like what what was he what was he interested in he was laying in bed and he said ben tell me about my heroes yeah and no he he had he that the funny thing was he didn't really know so we were just like talking about random stuff and he's was like i just wanna learn from you so i don't know what's up man like that's kinda of how he went into it and and i was like i don't know what's up with you and so then we just kinda started chatting about random topics i asked him a lot of stuff i he told me a lot of cool stuff that is not public information and and then at at the end he was asking me sort of about like goo is honestly very similar i told you about that finance guy yeah and like wants me to be his google the background is very similar background of that is like this person worth hundreds of millions of dollars hall at ben and said just tell me what mistakes i'm going to make before i make them based off of like historical people so ben's podcast is he basically reads three books on titans of industry and he breaks them down into like a two or three hour podcast so so by in theory ben's an expert three book expert on a lot of different people and and and if if you're gonna listen to one go listen to edison i think it's amazing sam what's your favorite one edison to me is by far my favorite what's the richest roth child i like the roth child one but i do think the edison one is the is the most impactful because it like in impact we all know the outcome of edison the disney one people liked i didn't like that as much because disney like is not as interesting to me but that one's probably the most popular so interestingly i for disney i almost did a follow up at the end of it because i listened to mister beast interview on joe rogan and the stuff mister bi was saying i was like oh this person is so similar to walt disney that it's almost kinda spooky and maybe i should make podcast just pointing out like a a a quick ten minute one pointing out with similarities between walt disney and mister beast and when he got on the phone he was like i love the walt disney one that really resonated with me i was like oh that doesn't this is why like you you're you're you're pretty under monetized but i think it's gonna catch up soon because i think what's gonna happen and we said the six months ago you make these comments like oh you remind me of walt disney and so if i'm the person who like if i mister beast and you said it to me i really what what mistake like what am doing wrong or like i'm thinking about doing x y and z did walt do this and like did it work and did it not work like you're this weird fortune teller type of person and that it did did he say something like that to you yeah a little bit a little bit he got into the like well what mistakes should i look out for like what do you think that like what do you think i need to be wary of there's like there's is charlie mu quote that's like a tell me where i'm gonna die so i know i never go there right like i'll just make sure never to go there it's kind of that but i'm sure there's also the upside right like it's not just what mistakes but like how did they make their greatness happen i think that's actually more of what people care about how do they make their greatness happen and then kinda draw parallels to my own life of like yeah i i am just like edison in the roth outs and disney after all you know so similar right i think you know like for mister beast the i think the parallels are super easy with walt disney the thing the only time the walt disney slowed down his career it was for like a decade and it was because well i love to be working on a new thing but a certain point everyone convinced him like oh actually you have this enormous multi dollar animation studio now you just need to be working on okay pumping out more full length animations and like when he did that the whole thing kinda went downhill and then he goes crazy and he starts assessing over little toy trains and like really going off the rails but those those model trains then get bigger and bigger and becomes disneyland and that is when he comes out of his fun and starts innovating again and so for mister beast it's just like the don't let anyone convince you that you need to be working on the reasonable thing like you need to follow your unreasonable passions because some somehow great things are gonna come out of that's that's kind of the parallel for context walt disney i'm i can't imagine he was more successful than mister beast was was at mister beast age but how big was his business when it when you say things were going we're being becoming unsuccessful and he started of focusing and what is focusing mean like was he was he the ceo of this company walt was essentially the ceo of walt disney studios yeah and this is basically in the forties and early fifties and it was not huge huge but i it was like hundreds to maybe just over a thousand employees is how big wow while disney studios was well ben i think this was cool as hell so happy for you that that happened if these are cool moments along the way and sit kind of like signals that like you're on the right track you know sam discovered you i don't know when he came on year a year ago got it it was a year ago and you do this awesome either there's somebody put a twitter clip up you you did some interview and you're were like you're like i'm listening to my first million and i hear sam say man i i i found this podcast i love it's called how to take over the world and i thought to myself there's another podcast called out to take go over the world how who was that and then you're like oh shit he's talking about me ben wilson said he just said my name and then you know and then we basically then i went down the rabbit hole after sam i was like that sounds like like really interesting i don't like to read biographies but i think i'd like to listen to two hours and like that's just you know like one commute and i could like know the story of it and i listened to edison one i got hooked i called you basically right after that i think dm you called you and i was like hey let's partner like i think your thing is gonna blow up come work for us on our podcast and then we will help cross promote your and like let's take this to the next level and these are the little happenings that happen along the way and now you know mister beast following you know sam and my lead of recognizing your talents for what they are and and so you know honestly like i think you have a great thing going and i'm really happy for you that you know this happened i think it's such a cool thing that happened i think what would be cool and i think this might happen ben here's what i'm gonna predict that's gonna happen in the next month you're gonna record an episode with jimmy mister beast you're gonna record an episode with mister beast and i think you if you you should ask them you should text and be like hey next time you wanna do a sunday talk can i just record it and we're gonna talk about history and i'm gonna make it an episode do care and every it's gonna be really cool because it's gonna be like when elon musk went on or when like i i forget it was like elon musk went on a couple like like he went on wait but why history hardcore history and it's like dude well hardcore history is like bigger than new ben but the even to the mainstream person they were like why is elon musk appearing on this nerdy niche thing and it blows it up and that's what's gonna happen it's gonna be all the young people are gonna be like why is mister beast on this history thing what is going on who is this and i think that's what's gonna happen and your life is gonna change i predict that's that's this is this is how that story is gonna play out you should definitely reach out with some idea you just need it what what is the idea of how he could join you on the thing and like just to get that one thing right and it'll be like an inflection point for for you and what you do well it should be it should be why mister beast is the new walt disney and you're gonna be like and i'm gonna tell you i'm i'm gonna jimmy seems jimmy right i'm gonna tell you why how you're are just like walt disney but i'm gonna do it in front of everyone and you can ask me questions and i'll explain to you why that's that's why i think you are just like him i think that'll be really cool i think what i would want to do is if you would let me like go down to north carolina and like interview his parents interview his friends and like actually kinda make like a semi documentary audio documentary out of it the making of mister beast that would be sick and also you could it could be like this is the part one of maybe of hopefully many parts to come comment i'm gonna do this you know i can i can kinda document your whole whole thing how this turns out but you're only twenty what is you he twenty five to six years old something like that it's like you know this is this is part one but you know it's funny it's part one i was talking to him and i was talking about like just look at the on your face bro this is like you know wow this i have never seen this sort of deep happiness inside you this is amazing so i i was talking about like yeah these guys call me up and think on their guru and so like i'm i might do like a consulting business off of it like coaching type of thing because peep there seems to be a market for that and he was like oh yeah i could see that that seems like something i would have gone for when i was younger and i was like when you were younger you're twenty four years old like how much time is there of when you were younger he's like i used to feel just like that yesterday yeah i was like yeah i was younger you're like i have a child seven years old older than you had have a child alright it'll be that's funny and just talk dogg you in a in a very nice way yeah he did you a favor he he he kind of like should on you in the most gentle way possible in a way that's helpful to you yes exactly well congratulations that's cool alright i'm excited to see what's gonna happen thanks guys alright sean i have what else we got i've got a few interesting things for you let me tell you the first interesting thing that i'm doing in my life and kind of an interesting business so i'm on this app called intro are you using intro i don't use it no but let's explain what it is it's basically like you call an expert for an hour and you pay you pay for the time and you do like a fifteen or thirty minute call with them yeah that's all it is it's that and that's not the point of the story but that's like that's all it is it's just you pay money to talk to people it's consulting and my buddy started it so he asked me to it so said yeah i'll sign up whatever so when you and i were in miami this man and woman this husband and wife came up to me and like started talking to me about hip therapy because they knew that i was afraid to fly i've i've got like i have a pretty hardcore claustrophobic thing i don't take subways that i don't fly and i also have an addictive personality and i love sugar and so they like knew that and they were trying to pitch me and they on like using their services and they kept emailing me and i just i i ignore everyone i don't reply to email really and eventually they book a intro call with me and i charged like i i put it at like two grand an hour and they're like hey you're never answer our emails and and to be honest what i met them i did you know i you we do the nice thing when me people oh yeah you know this sounds great like you know maybe do it sometime time like you're just trying to be polite and i said find a time yeah let's find a time and let's run away from from potentially talking to me yeah and they booked a call with me and they goes you said you're gonna do it we can't get you down so we're just gonna pay you money right now and we're gonna sit down and do it a hit a hip what's it called hip what do you call hip no i guess a no session and i'm like okay i don't know what that what that's about but i i do it and it kinda has changed my like the game for me and so what yes and i'll explain to you what but i keep getting the words screwed up hip therapy what is it called h they this woman so she has an app her name is grace i think get grace dot com is like her app and then i don't know i think like grace dot tv if you go to get grace dot com i'm sure you'll see all about her her name's is grace and she told me she's like look here's the deal a handful of executives pay me a million dollars a year to do to be their personal hi i'm not gonna pay you that or i'm not gonna charge you that but if you like it you have to tell people about it i said whatever fine but i'm not paying you a million dollars she's was like that's fine but you just get let me give you five sessions and if it changes you let me know if you wanna talk about it and so i do this do this thing it's totally worked and so basically what it is is you know how you do breath work and meditation you just like kinda like sit down and get quiet and like you hear like a voice in your head like it's maybe your headphones it's andy from head space and he says like imagine like the sun is pouring on your mind or on your brain and it's leaking down to your body and causing you to like relax and you're filling with like relaxation whatever you basically do that but then she talks to you while you're in that state you know that medi state and she says things like you know imagine yourself on a beach in your safe space and imagine like there's four year old you and you're explaining to him how you're trying to overcome like you know the sugar addiction or whatever the thing you're trying to overcome and so and tell me what you say to that person so you're basically just like you're getting spoken to and you're sometimes speaking back in a medi state not like that interesting when i did it i was oh like i thought i was gonna be at a tran but for some reason this has been wildly effective i think it could be placebo i think it could not be but i don't care i haven't had sugar in like three weeks since i started and i like am like kind of an addict with that stuff it's like to the point where i get sick if i think about it it's been crazy fascinating and she gets she gets all these people to pay her a million dollars a year is that real who's who's paying or does she does she name names who's paying her a million dollars here that sounds a little far fetched it does sound a bit far fat fetched on her website is the founder of clear c clear c when do they called they're they're called like clear bank or something yeah they were that guy is one of our testimonials and then she told me other people who i actually don't know if i'm allowed to say who those other people are oh yeah so great but do you you verbally her website yeah her well her website is grace grace smith tv dot com and on there you could see testimonials from people so could it she be like kinda pulling my leg yeah i mean i didn't like look at her financials yes one hundred percent but i don't know who i mean with someone lie that like it looks way different i for some reason i imagine her to be like seventy but she's not she's very young so grace smith is the world's leading therapist it is a seven figure investment to work with grace wow that's that's amazing and you can work with her team for last or download the grace app for free okay grace app for free that sounds promising alright so the the founder of clear bank wow she's been on yeah whatever some show jimmy kim but it's not it's called the no oh it's a italian it's the brazilian version the brazilian version of of jimmy kim yeah so okay so yours was around sugar or was around for your fear sugar and we're gonna we're gonna address the the flying thing later but i was gonna try and do sugar and it's actually bit effective i'm i'm shocked to say it's been effective that's kinda crazy i like it and it makes you wanna do it which i think is probably you know pretty common she told me to tell you that you can do it for free too if you want oh okay great how do i get over my what do i even have i don't have as yeah the problem is that you're like emotionally healthy so i'm like yeah i don't know if you have issues get over this happiness thing i got every day yeah so i don't know if like it's gonna impact you i don't know like if you have any diet never yeah it could be food it could be food related like y do i really want that cheese pizza maybe just never eat a cheese pizza again after i talk to grace that could be kinda nice it it it just kind of interesting but it could be a thing where it's like man i gotta move this woman every week and like if i tell it that i eat sugar i'm gonna feel like an idiot so i mean that could be a i i don't know what it is but it's kind of using that my body tutor after you had mentioned it on the podcast so did you really they definitely had a bump i signed up i paid for so i was like alright let's try this out it's legit right for multiple weeks it's super i mean it's like there's no like hoc poc it's like the straight up here's a kind of like a coach who's a nutrition asked who's like i really help you so i have this woman hayley helping me i don't know if she's the one same one you have i have heather okay so i don't know by heather but hayley is amazing and so and and a lot of it's just like the basic psychology of accountability right like i tell her i'm gonna do something and i take a photo of every meal and i have to think to myself am i gonna either a be a big fat liar and just not take a picture of this like you know bag of cheese that i'm about to eat or am i gonna take a picture of it and be like yeah i know i told you i was gonna eat good and then i just ate bad even though clearly it could have just not ate you know not eaten bad and so it's helped so much to clear up like you know just like i don't know let's call it thirty percent of forty percent of just random bullshit mistakes that i would've have been making plus then there's the strategy like okay she gave me this now i'll share an exact a specific example so like she told this thing she goes alright i i snapped a picture of a meal i eat she goes like whoa big meal and i'm like yeah you know whatever she's kinda you know her job is to kinda judge my meals right okay fair and she's like do me a favor before you eat want you to just on a scale of one to five just take take note just so i at the beginning here i'm not gonna change anything in your diet but just observe how hungry were you when you started the meal like if one is absolutely starving and five is absolutely stuffed like were you starving when you when you decided to eat or were you like a two or a three on the hunger scale and then when you were done were you like so stuff i need a nap or are you like you know okay i'm full i'm done and she's just like don't change anything just like give yourself a number before and after after every meal so i started doing it and she's like i was what do i want like you know started at two and ended at four she's like no you kinda wanna start a three and ended a three like you know you basically wanna be like okay it's been about three hours i think like i'll eat now i think i could eat i don't have to eat but i could i could definitely eat right now because you're creating the one and being consistent and what i'm done eating it's like i don't stop eating when i can't physically eat anymore i stop eating because like cool like i've had enough of my meal and i can move on i know that there's gonna be more food in a couple hours i don't need to like you know stuff myself to the brim here and so literally these like first small like nuances so i'd noticed oh man i really do tend to eat bad when i get to a one because then i'm just like i'm red lining i gotta like i i just like my decision making is very poor there so i'm like normally if i like eat at a two and i finish out of three i'm like very proud of like those all those meals so little things like that or you know certain like like hey give me i was like give me a grocery list i'm going on home just give me a grocery list and i'm just gonna buy only that shit so i only have that to eat at home like yeah know let's make this simple and so she gave me like an exact grocery list i went bought all that i was like this is great so it's amazing yeah my my coach was like anytime you wanna snack because i would like snack a lot she was like get a baked potato put it a paper towel over it and rinse the bake it get it wet and just put it microwave for five minutes and and just eat that and i started eating that i'm like oh this is delicious this tastes wonderful and it's only a hundred and fifty calories like i was like what the fuck is a sweet potato i didn't know what a sweet potato was you know what i mean it did yep that's what you call your girlfriend when you're in high school yeah it's like dave chappell when they do switching spouses when the black guy goes with the white family and he goes what the fuck is a par snip like he doesn't i know what a par snippet is it's like i don't know what a fucking sweet potato is who's renee z wish her that's what he says wow yeah that's a month it's anyway it's been a good service i like my body tour it's good me too me too this is donna and ad we're not paid to do it i genuinely like the product and it's helping me wow also it's like seven hundred dollars a month and i don't wanna spend that anymore but i said the only way i'm quitting is it when i it's like two hundred two fifty come i do the thing where they call you every single day okay so they call me they call me every morning and i can't cheat because my wife in and like family knows that i'm doing it and they're like oh you're gonna tell heather that you just ate that could well that was the biggest thing i had to make a decision am i is this a hundred percent honesty or is this ninety percent honesty or sixty percent honesty like you know there are levels to this whole honesty thing and so i like alright i decided if i'm gonna spend this money i i gotta do a hundred percent honesty i don't know this person i've never met this person like she's gonna be my little confidant of every single thing i eat in the exact thing like yeah i i did just put ranch on my potato like yeah i did that happened you know like i can't explain it i just did it and so i'm like i gotta take the actual photo of the actual thing every single time no matter what and i think that also like a commitment to actually doing it right is what actually makes you get a good result from things do you want me to keep going you wanna do it another other one i me do another way go alright have you heard of avi nation no what alright so this is this week's billy of the week so basically have you heard of tom shoes remember tom's shoes like give one of course buy one give one type of thing you know like the hips or shoes well anyway the guy who started his name was blake by the way last you go to africa are we is everybody just run around and tell him shoes they better be at this point yeah this point yeah twenty years tom yeah that's for sure dog shoes better be like the official shoe of like south africa they got everyone should have a pair of times shoes so her name is paige how do you say their last name mic ko blake mike like that and so anyway so her this this woman page and her brother's is blank the guy heard tom's they got kinda popular and they got seed money because they were on like this thing called you probably knew all about this the amazing race and so they like did that and got a little bit of seed money whatever so he starts tom's the same day she starts a different company called avi nation now you are not in the target demographic of avi nation it's mostly women particularly like young like high school and i think middle school girls like it's like a status symbol a little bit but basically she taught herself had to sew just like on youtube and she started going just like fares like venice beach flea markets and things like that and she would sew like these interesting stripes on like old vintage sweatshirt like you know nothing like breathtaking but kinda cool and like she would be making like five or ten k day every once in a while when she would go and it was kinda working and she bootstrap this business to the point of sixteen years later she owns one hundred percent of the company in two thousand twenty it did seventy million in revenue two thousand twenty one a hundred and ten million in revenue two thousand twenty two it's gonna double again so it's gonna be north of two hundred in revenue and last year she paid herself a fifty million dollar dividend check and she's buying a lot of she's yeah she's buying a lot of real estate with it and in this article i read forbes was like we estimated that she's worth around three hundred and fifty million dollars but she said the the number is at least double that and she recently acquired her ninth property a fifteen million dollar lakeside house in austin and she has other homes in malibu of venice beach marina del rey in ass in a aspen ski shelley and she it if if she didn't subscribe to my first million none of this would have happened that is fucking crazy dude yeah she said she reads the milk road every day yeah she subscribe and shares with friends like unbelievable yeah i want a sweetheart and have you at have you ever heard of this business i've never heard about this until forbes did an article on it no and this i'm i don't know why but i'm almost mad i don't know what i'm at at but i'm just like this because you go to the website you go to the website and this literally could be like someone's school project this could be like an ali express demo site this could be and i don't i don't mean that to to kinda shit on it but i'm like what am i looking at this is basically like a shirt with four stripes on it it's like you know like a sweater with a lightning bolt it's like a a dude wearing black shorts with a yellow stripe on the side and the short oh wow the shorts are a hundred and sixty eight dollars yeah so and i forgot to add that that's like the stick which is it's like sweatpants pants are a hundred and sixty dollars so like the items of those like our laundry brand yeah a little bit short of luxury but like basically my friend joe told me that his kids wear or they always like are wanting it because they'll see girls in school wearing it and it's like a hundred and fifty dollars for a pair of sweatpants pants and this like a mystery box for me like how do you do this how do you make something just like arbitrarily cool and in demand when it seems like there are a trillion you know like alternatives to this and like i kinda get it when it's like established brands it's like oh yeah well you know louis vuitton or whatever they have this like history of like being seen as valuable so therefore people will continue seeing a valuable this is just like some woman at her dining tables is like no you know what three stripes on the hoodie eight hundred dollars this plan will work and like somehow i did i don't wanna explain this story so like makes my head hurt listen in that book what's peter till book zero one he talks about like he's like there's like basically like these i i don't remember the words he used but he said like there's like a mo or like the truth like you have to know something that no one else knows basically it's like figure out some a secret some type of technology that others haven't figured out but he goes and peter feels like this kinda like autistic y like genius and he's like the fifth one is branding which i don't know anything about that i don't know about cool but i know that that's like important that's kinda like what he says in the book he's like branding is like a emo but like you know i don't know anything about modes i i just do technology and i think that i've been chatting with a remember how we had sofia omar rosa on the on the on the pod she's the one who start nasty gal she's got all these other new projects going on and like a woman like her just everything she does to me it's just like cool it just looks well when i met when we when we met her i was like oh yeah like whatever you are selling on buying like dig your vibe you seem awesome like i don't know you're wearing like six rings right now i i don't even know one i feel like i should own the six now like i don't know what's happening but like i am drawn to your lifestyle your charisma or whatever i think that's like the you know whatever like you know that works for nasty gal i think it works for like goo and shit like that where it's like there's just something about certain pacemaker makers and trends centers where you're like exactly alright i just wanna like i just wanna drink whatever you're drinking well if you google this woman page she kinda has that vibe she's like the jessica simpson version of nasty gal like maybe a little bit like maybe like a little bit less like edgy but like still cool right you know like like just a little bit more like she always looks like she just got back from coachella yeah oh you just got back yeah like she's not gonna do coke with you but like she'll have like really good peach ice iced tea but it's still like cool and like you always like you're like what the hell what the fuck is this sub meniscus stuff like that type of vibe and anyway i like her i love this woman page i been reading all about it this company is really really cool and you're in the you're in the e comm space bunch of our friends are in the e comm space and it's really hard right now oh i read about this woman i was like well she sure makes it look kind of easy it's kind of a exact i think that's why i have such a big reaction to too because i mean eco and i'm just like how how the oh how you do this you know you ramped up to two hundred million in sales with like the most competitive common category like shirts oh no yeah i okay what makes your shirts good they're just cool you know i'm yeah yeah but that doesn't count for a hundred million and it's like actually can if you really are cool enough and you build that grassroots thing what i wanna learn and i don't know if there's a way to even like figure out this backstory without doing a bunch of work but like the there is something to like the foundation of cool right so like how do you build a frame a foundation or or like a ladder that will that will like you know started and it sounds like she went to festivals and she's in the for the first stores in hate ash in san francisco and it's like with the right group of people you start getting going and then it kinda like spreads from there and i've never understood that when it comes to fashion i don't i never understand understood but her brother has that too so if you google blake me and you see like his house like he's got like a vintage like a vintage like toyota land cruiser truck with like a golden retriever and like a cool like pen penn pe whatever it's called blanket like laying over the hood and like skis on top of the truck in front of their malibu like even though it's like you know they're just wealthy so it's maybe it's easy like have all that cool shit there is like a sense of style that he's just always had i i think part of the cool thing is you just you're just good looking to be honest i think that's definitely like the root of it right i mean like brad pitt could wear anything and then i could wear the same clothing it's just like he just looks better he just better looking i mean of course like he's cooler but there is a few other things i think that that that are a little bit more learn and and replica when it comes to that but these people definitely have it it reminds me so yesterday i was talking to my mom and i my mom mom's is a town i was like visiting my house and i started doing this thing i did a podcast with my mom i was like i wanna hear my mom's story like because we all talk to our mom's but we don't like really talk it's like surface level stuff or it's all about the kid and and you know moms are great because they're like you know they're all about you but like how often do you really sit down and ask them questions about like them and they're how they grew up and what made them them so i recorded this podcast with my mom you know parents are getting older and i always wanted to have it it was amazing and one of the things she had told me i don't know if i had the story store in the podcast for but she had told me like her trip to america like how she got here and like and it wasn't hardship like it wasn't hardship like oh my god we we were smuggled in and boats and like we had to like you know right walk through the rio grande with just our nose above the water like it wasn't hard like that it was hard in the way that's like very relatable and that just unknown you just don't know what you don't know and then you're in a situation and there's nobody to help you and so she talked about like she got on the plane and like she saw the seat belt they're like fashion seat belt ma'am and she's like you know like a plain seat belt is not like any other seat belt you've ever seen and got she was like and she's just like clocking it together over and over again and it she it just like goes in and like she was so happy like oh my god like thing number one done like i could do this and then she was like alright i'm flying to america like i wanna miss my stop because she'd only ever been on a train so she's like wide awake for like sixteen hours of a flight being like when are they gonna announce like the the america stop and i need to get off this this plane and like she didn't know that a plane just like goes to one place and that's it and there was like so many things like when she got to the place that she got to jfk or something like that she needed to transfer to to pittsburgh she just she didn't she was like i i think i'm in america i i didn't really know beyond that i to get to pittsburgh what is a pittsburgh and she's like how i she was like twenty at the time and to put it like her twenty is like today is like seven year old like because she had never been to a restaurant she couldn't speak english she like she told me once she's like yeah right before i went to america she told me this yesterday she goes i went as like our school we went to a restaurant and i'd never eaten outside of my house and so i was like okay and she's like there was like a fork knife on the table and i didn't know like i knew what they were but i didn't know how you hold them and she's like i'm looking on around used doing it so fast and i'm like okay what what are they doing with their like how do they pick this up like this and she's like i basically didn't eat and i paid for the most expensive meal of my life and i didn't know how to get the food into my mouth and was so embarrassed to use my hands i just didn't do it and i was hearing these stories and i was like we all have these moments where like the world seems too mysterious for us like this is like i don't know what this this black box is like completely foreign to me and i don't know how to operate it and like her trip to america had like five of these like she was talking about like when she finally got off the plane and the american guy had met and it was like okay you clearly look like completely panicked and he was like are do you know like where you're going like do you a family to come pick you up and she's like no like did phone number which she owed to college or something she was even younger she was actually she was set seventeen she was she was she started high school three days later in america when she came and so she she came because if you come right before your eighteenth birthday you're not at yet so you have to do way less paperwork or her dad like put her on a plane at seventeen was like go you're like you're about to turn eighteen in three days like you need to get over there and so her brother was here but her you know like she didn't know how to get to his house so she she didn't know like all the steps it takes to get there so this guy was like do you have her phone number his phone number and she was like yeah look i have a phone number and he's was like okay let's go to this pay phone and he he's like and she was like i don't know what this is so like i don't know what this device is i don't have money and don't how to do this so he pay he puts quarters in any he calls and then she's like she talks to her brother and brothers like well you're here like i didn't even know you're coming like okay stay exactly where you are don't move i will go to the airport and find you at the at the phone booth do not move like one step and she's like okay and she's like the guy who had helped me like set up the phone he had to go catch his next slide or he was english she could like read english but she couldn't speak she had never practice speaking so she like you know it was here and she's like oh shit and so she was like i she was like i'll never forget she's was like i was trying to like i was done with the phone call but i didn't understand how to hang up the phone i couldn't like i couldn't figure out how to get the pay phone back like what was the original starting point i didn't remember and she's like i remember i just like left it hanging like the cord hanging the phone to swing i like walked away and i was so scared like the police are gonna get me for what i just did and she's like everything was so new like you know on the way home we stopped at at seven eleven and i was like this is a palace like look at how much stuff is your look bright these lights are i've never seen lights so bright in my life and like you know all every little thing was so amazing and so i say this for two reasons one is if you haven't done like the kind of like podcast with your mom go do it it's amazing even if you don't have a podcast you don't need publish well just like few people are gonna have a as good of a story as that i don't know like i feel like everybody's got a story when you start to dig in and then for my mom who was almost like she didn't think about this stuff like it was only like halfway through when i got to like the interesting bit because it was all like just so buried in her head and she what does she remember from forty years ago but then she did remember once i got like on the right trail but the other thing is like when i hear the story about this woman who you know just put stripes on a t shirt and like grows it like crazy and i'm i'm saying that kinda like to me it looks so simple but obviously there's more to it i just don't know what the more to it is and i'm sure there's people who listen to podcast and they hear these things here talk about many things and they're like i feel like you guys say it like it's so obvious but it's like completely not obvious to me it's like where do how do i hang up the pay like how do i connect the the seat belt like i don't know that's okay like there is that everybody's got that black box and then like later you look back if you laugh and you're like but yeah i can't believe it you you and i you're i i don't you're not immigrant but but you you and most all of my friends and i think you as well all of our friends are either immigrants or kids of immigrants i i feel like i'm might the only like not not one of those that that i'm i'm close with my my wife is that my family's is that you're that and what you what you noticed is talking to these people and a lot of well you and i are friends with a lot of immigrant entrepreneurs or children of immigrant immigrants and their entrepreneurs and you you like i often wonder i'm like how are these people succeeding when there's it's they're they're coming from a place where things were much harder you know like i i i didn't learn how i have to learn how to you know use a pay phone i just knew and you hear the story about your mom and you're like well that's why they succeed so well because well she had to learn how to use a fork like that's like pretty i i imagine pretty humiliating and you're frightened you're frightened you get on a plane to like you know it sounds like to her because as if you sent me to the moon mark you know what i mean you're like what the hell like i i don't know i don't know anything and it's like well okay i like landed it i found my brother somehow like what's the worst that can happen they're gonna send me back to this display i mean like you know it can't be that bad failing failing at least and so when you talk about people who are like well i don't know what to do it's like yeah but like it's kinda straightforward you just can't really be afraid to do it because like the worst that's gonna happen is not that bad like you know what i mean if if this woman from india can come knowing nothing and she ends with like this big family and she's i your parents are pretty successful like it it it can work out if you just kinda take a little bit of risk it it's pretty inspiring our software is the worst have you heard of hubspot see most crm are a cobb together mess but hubspot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous think i love our new crm our software is the best hubspot grow better yeah i think that's where two two common immigrant traits come from number one like a willingness to grind it out in a way that's like nothing is beneath me you know like okay like she was like you know two weeks later i had a job as a waitress like the person who had never been to a restaurant now was hired as a waitress in america and couldn't speak english and she's like my brother was like how the hell did you get a job and she's like i don't know you said we needed a job and so like i just kept going to different places every like hour i just went to a different place to interview this one liked me and they just gave me the job and like okay i have to go at like four in the morning before school and like i'm gonna help clean the stuff and then i'm gonna go at night and like that's what i'll do and so that you get this like grit side but then you also get the like kind of like why immigrants is so cheap it's because like they've operated with no safety net before and so now when they have some resources they're like don't sq them we remember what it was like to have no resources with no back no net to catch you if you fall and so like yeah don't like spend too much even once it's like a lot of immigrant parents end up in america like they end up getting rich but they still live very cheaply and i think it's because like if you've lived it's like you know somebody who's like i don't know they like grew up in the woods and it's like why do you sleep on the floor still it's like i just do okay like don't ask me too many questions it's like i i know i have a bed now but like i don't need i don't need the bed i i i wanna use that right now because i feel like you know anything could happen right now and so a lot of have the same fear oh and a lot of my friend until my mother law's from haiti and i would talk to her so she i tell you how she started this pillow business i don't know how big it is exactly but i imagine mid six figures and she took she asked me to to take drive me two hours to the airport and i was like why she's like i wanna ask you how shopify works i think i wanna create an online store where i sell these pillows and i'm like alright whatever i'll explain to you how how to do it but i like people ask me this always the time they never follow up and they never do anything and so she calls me six weeks later she's like i got my first sale now what called my god and i was talking to her and the way that they would describe it you know my in law my in laws and as well as so my other other immigrant friends it's kinda like what's interesting is when you take and like these immigrants and you put them in america where there's like a pretty strict rules in lot laws like and like mostly the government can't take things from you and like your stuff is mostly protected it's like well this is easy this is easy mode like i like we all know the we all know the rules and we know that people are mostly all gonna follow the rules like this is easy this is just a a board game like you just gotta play it and and so i'm always inspired hanging out with those types of people yeah for sure me too you said something just now which is like i think is an important little thing which was i i tell people's this stuff all the time like very few take action know like most people just don't do anything with this i've been kind of i've been at hiring there's been a bunch of people who have built cool shit for us that like i just wanna call out is kind of awesome and i don't know where it leads and i like that they did it knowing not where it leads but something good is gonna happen i'll give you give you a couple examples somebody created this thing i don't know if you saw they put it on product hunt it's the m ideas system i i wish i knew the link off top of my head but if you go to product i you search my first million basically he went in indexed like i don't know thirty or forty percent of all of the different ideas we've said on this podcast well we're like oh mailchimp but for inside your company because you need to write internal newsletters blah blah blah and so they'll take that idea he time stamped it and so you can go to the website and it it'll be you'll just be like give me an idea and it'll give you an idea and then you he it says listen to it and it you click it and it opens up in spotify or whatever some player like exactly where we talked about that idea and i was like wow this is so awesome for us but also for anybody who's a fan of the podcast and immediately i was like drawn to this person and and it's such a it's such a hack to stand out just by like doing a useful thing and there's so much energy that gets spent like reading books listening to podcast podcasts like ask asking people for advice you know and it's like do you know instead spend actually like a one third of the time and actually like build something or make something that's like kind of interesting that will get you so much further there's another guy who built this thing called right like sean dot com have you seen this that was really good it was great this guy created this thing he trained gp three like the like like the ai model or whatever to on a bunch of my twitter threads and he goes oh yeah i trained this ai to write like you so watch you can just type in any topic and it'll spit out a twitter thread and i was like i did it it was awesome it was great awesome booth this guy if someone put it in there let me let me find it he put in oh i'm pull is pretty amazing how the the the language like it is it is like you i i put something in there and like the cadence sounded exactly like you so okay so the this person where's is the one somebody broke how to pick up girls or whatever i somebody wrote how to be happy and then it it goes you don't find happiness you create it most people go through life searching for happiness they think that when they find the right job right relationship bright house they'll finally be happy but the truth is is happiness comes with here's how you create it yourself number one do something that makes you happy every day it doesn't have to be big it could be small like this is a fucking computer that's writing a very realistic you know looking thing here's another one why we don't do public math right the somebody's a fan of the podcast he goes we don't do public math think about it when's the last time you did math in public i mean really did math attraction not mental math but using your fingers a calculator or a piece of paper when's the last time you saw saw someone do math in public it's almost like we're ashamed of it we don't want people to see a struggle at math we think they'll think our we're stupid but the truth is math is hard and it's normal to struggle with it so let's start doing public math like it it like changes our old perspective by the end let's try practice public math period to get how does how did how did how can i make one of those because i would like to do that for my stuff and just fill write emails for me so what do you do you just like tell gp three to read all of your tweets and it gets the general should just get this guy so this guy a pickle is his name it's says like twitter handle i told him because i i i put it in my news i was like check this out this is awesome and it like crashed his site and it ran up a thousand dollar bill before it crashed the site he's like i know my side budget i was like dude like i'll pay your bill just let me own the thing and i'll pay your bill like it's my it's right like sean i'll i'll buy it off you and then you don't worry about this stuff and because i i i think it'd be cool to like like i love john stein i've been reading it you know you you don't even know who it is to due famous american author whatever a classic american author like you know like the you like from the crew that wrote like catcher in the ride that type of crap i would love to like write my marketing emails like those guys and i think it'd be cool if i could if i could figure out how to like teach gp three what you wanna go to try in the background i don't if you could hear it it's alright what topics you wanna go to well there is a couple others on this like gp three thing yeah like so basically the like this the ai has gotten really really good at really specific things like i don't know have you played with dolly that's is the craziest shit on earth that is way crazier than gb three dolly what is yeah pic it's the picture version of this you just type in any concept it's like sam par surfing while smoking a cigarette and it'll generate like twelve pictures like ai illustrates sam on a surfboard board smoking a cigarette i don't i'll give you a bunch of variations dude i told it to do wild shit i said do real life grown up cart and bart simpson and it made a real life like a it it looked like a a photograph of what a grown up carton from south park a cartoon looked like it was crazy it is so impressive crazy like the demo version it's not even the real version i'm gonna start doing a thing there's this company i i wanna invest in that does this with voices and so basically he sent me a clip of of gary v reading the milk road so it was you know the it it goes good morning you know and he's just like in the gary v voice it read the thing and it sounds exactly like gary v then he's like here's jordan peterson doing it here's joe rogan doing it here's gary doing it and he's like if you give me like sixteen hours of feel like your podcast audio data like i'll just i can make your voice like a synthetic voice so then you could like you could just type something and it'll do it'll record the audio for you the way you talk i was like what in the world is going on so this stuff is so amazing to me it's really captured by fascination and it's just the beginning like this is gonna get so much better and has all kinds of crazy implications like hey you're not gonna know what's real what's fake like because fake and real are gonna be like indistinguishable like a like a deep fake video or like a photoshop photo but for everything for voices for videos for drawings for whatever twitter threads like it's not unreasonable that like most of the content you read on the internet it's just gonna be written by computers dude like you're gonna go on twitter it's just gonna be auto generated content from brands and and and and people that are you know just plugging it into the to the ai and ai spitting out good content for us all to consume like we may not have hollywood at some point it'll just be like computers making movies and the rest of us just like you know a wall what's that movie where they're like fat people sitting in wheelchairs and just like suck down slur and watching stuff it'll just be that because it's like oh we don't need to do the work to make stuff anymore the computers make awesome movies we just watch them dude let me let me tell you a quick story has we kinda wrap up real quick about you know how like you know it's not for a little while it's been not cool to live in a city lately and it's been cool to live in like less popular places like in portland austin that type of thing last night i went to a wedding i went it was my wife's buddy's wedding so they weren't like you know my friend they weren't like what i thought like you know our start up eating nerdy friends and i sat at this table and listened to my table i didn't know who any these people were there we just started chi chatting the the person next to me started a business that had raised thirty million dollars at a start and these all these people are about twenty eight years old had raised like thirty million dollars the person next to them had a company that in two years hired three hundred people the person next to them had a startup up that they sold for a hundred and forty million dollars the person next to them had a vc fund that had a billion dollars raised and they they this person graduated collagen and o nine so how her old you thirty three with that and then the person next to them was a partner at one of the biggest management consulting firms and so it's like mostly like and then there's some poor like english teacher in the middle who's just like what am i what is this come on come on let me do it here well why will i'm the one doing real work out here so no one was douche at all so the reason why i even knew that was because they like had seen sarah posted them on me and they're like oh you do the podcast about startups i was like oh yeah okay so you must be in startups too yeah i work at this company oh what do you do there oh i actually started it so like they're trying to there being cool about it so it it it it was pretty inspiring to be around these people i'm used to like you know sometimes being like a big shot sometimes amongst my my like non entrepreneurial friend group and i go around these people and i'm like oh my god like there this is like incredibly motivating i actually think that there's a world where it's a little unhealthy because you're like you know like this money shit doesn't actually matter that much but it's so it's kinda bullshit that i'm like comparing myself to others but it's incredibly incredibly motivating and that's something that i miss about san francisco and we had that for a little while yeah that is that was the best part about san francisco by far like people would be like how san francisco it's like oh well the city is basically got city you know it's cold it's not actually like warm california weather you know it's super expensive it's you know all these things but the upside is like you know if you wanna hang out with some of the most ambitious interesting people who like look at the world a little differently and are kinda crazy enough to go pursue it you're just gonna keep bumping into them like everywhere you go regardless what you're doing and sure enough your brain will start to change to be more like them dude what twenties i feel like our friends weren't even ambitious like you know like jack smith is not an ambitious person he just like works on interesting things and just so happens that they become huge money making operations or like we have a few friends that are but then we have bunch of friends it's just like i don't think jack i think it's more of an outlier jackie is more like just like curious and mischievous more than he is ambitious but i don't think most people are like jack i think jack's is a bit of an outlier i don't consider myself to be ambitious do you consider yourself to be ambitious you you are ambitious yes you are i don't consider a lot of our friends me i'm just like we just like doing interesting things and it just so happens that the output is yeah but yours is like okay jack's is like i like doing interesting things as in like he'll build a ergonomic chair in his garage to like see what that's like your version is like i like just doing interesting things that are highly profitable and like you this there's a caveat there's like an important caveat you're like you're not like just reading novels from like you know eighteenth century you're like okay how do i you know spin up this thing that's gonna get to six figures in revenue very quickly right like that's that's your version of what's it's what's interesting to you is kind of the the the hook right so like what's interesting to people like okay fe i would say is very ambitious he's not very money minded right ambition is not money it's like but he's like super interested in new tech and so you know our our office would have like oh he you know here's just why is where why doesn't the tv remote work oh sorry i changed the tea i like took the chip out of the tv and i put a raspberry pie in i it's like why can't i use this beer tap oh because i put a fucking like drone that floats above it and like you know like what is this where's my computer it's like oh i a place to put my three d printer and like eight out of ten of those turned out to be like you know money sucks like there there was no commercial value in the raspberry pie or the many drones or the three d printing or any of that stuff it was just like the fifth one where he's like yeah i'm playing around with this like crypto thing you know the this thing how ethereum just came out and it's like just happened to be that that one was like one that turned out to be extremely profitable and like you know changed the world in a bigger way but you know the interest was in let's say for him tech or like our buddy xavier is just like dude how do i provide an electricity to people in africa who don't have it right that's ambition in a different way right and that was inspiring right like i was like oh holy shit you're the biggest solar provider in africa but i guess what i mean is like in in new york i noticed that the ambition is like let me crawl up this ladder and climb to the top of the ladder because i wanna be number one and i'm wanna kick other people off the ladder and make sure like stop on their faces i'm going up so they can't get as high as as i am right whereas it seems and maybe i'm just being like just i just think our shit don't stink which is it's more like let's create new ladders you know what i mean let's just take own it's like here's the test of new york like do you know which finger kinda take the least amount of pressure before it gives up its script it's like yeah step on the ring finger they're done it's like it whereas it's san francisco it's a little bit different right it's san francisco the virtue signaling is different like what you get rewarded world yeah is different you get rewarded for i'm solving some big problem at scale billion users billion dollar prize that's what you're going for and it's okay to like your high status if you're broke but going for a big big prize whereas in new york you don't get high status for broke like it's like no san francisco it's like the the guy with the biggest ratio of wealth to poor looking is like the winner you know like you you have to be like the the most lived with the most amount of money like yeah yeah make the most money and then give up all your possessions and live on the street like that is the like peak right that's like jack go look at jack do it's like okay you build two multi billion dollar companies but then you draw a homeless man beard and you like pretend you don't care about it you give all your money away and you wear a tie it t shirt and like you know you you carry around a notebook and like that's while you walk barefoot foot it's like that that's the highest status like person you can be in silicon valley did you think of the peter levels podcast i thought it was dope like i think he's great i like him like you know i always liked his content but i like him i didn't know him and i like the way he thinks i like the way he acts i thought he was i thought was pretty honest like he didn't come on here and try to perform and he got the vibe he got the like you know he i think he's a hit he's a hit i like him there's a handful of people who we we're friends with and who we've talked to publicly who i think i would put in the category of like oh they've kinda figured it out and of course that they're flawed and they make mistakes and they're not always happy and whatever that just like a normal humans but like in general they've kinda got figured out i would say da is in that category it's like oh man you've like you have a lot of the boxes checked like you seem happy you seem like got a good family your career is good jack smith our good buddy is another one of those people he started a company they sold for eight hundred million dollars but like he's not that like he doesn't really care about that and he'll never tell you about it unless you ask about it but he's happy and healthy and then this guy levels peter levels i would put him in the same category where it's like you kinda like seem like you know what you want and you stick with it and you have principles and you're you're achieving exactly your ideal life right and but that by the way have you know the you know the tell that i figured out like the what's the quickest way for me to pick up on is that person like those people like our for some of our favorite people are like that i put sue in that category but fe in that category i put a bunch of our in that category it's what percent of your like kind of when you talk about yourself or what you're doing what percent for there's two tests one is what percent of a conversation do you talk about yourself versus your ask questions are interested or curious about other things other people or other things and the second is when you talk about yourself what percent is talking about the past stuff you've done versus stuff you're interested in doing or the future and it sounds very simple but i'll like if you go to their bios very few of them even have their last company in their bio and whereas if you go to my bio it's like sold be right like number one the first thing i write in there is like sold the thing you know like i've done something cool i he's asking me about it i love to tell you about my wins and fairly you're you're fairly close to being in that category of like i feel like you know what you want and even if you don't get what you want you're still mostly happy yeah and the the thing that's helped me is like i'm i'm getting away from doing that i'm getting away from basically trying to like seek validation in some way and then the second like that that's that's why we talk about our past right to like kind of like give ourselves some status or to get some validation from others it's like you know here's my background here's what i've done therefore please give me some respect and and and whatever else and when once i picked up that these other guys do that very differently i started to shed that it's like somebody will bring something up in a conversation i i i think of an anecdote where i can tell them a really cool story of how i've done that and i'm just like well that doesn't actually add to the conversation they're already convinced why do i need to do that i don't need to i don't need to perform here that's fine and so i like let that go and that thought never used to be like go it always used to be something i would immediately jump in at any opportunity to kind of like you know hey can you validate my parking here hey here's my ticket could you please bunch a hold on it and like that's how i felt like i was doing stuff and then i noticed these guys don't do that and i talked to i remember asking sue i go i feel like you never i've kinda have to brag for you when we meet people because like dude they don't even know who you are they don't know who you're hit like much of a hit you all and and you wanna look and sean went to look cooler that he's associated with julie why did bring this guy to this meeting yeah because this guy's fucking awesome and like hold on you didn't do it you didn't brag let me brag yeah how and and i was like i was like why do you do that i was like i i i feel like you don't even talk about or think about like all the stuff you've done in the past and like he was like he's was like yeah i mean i don't i don't know i don't really do i don't really feel the need was like you know i heard kobe bryant give a talk once and he's like it was after kobe retired and he was talking about like the new shit he was into he's like because i don't know if you know kobe started like making little mini movies and like mh he like got really into storytelling and movies and like that was like what he wanted to do right great stories movies and stuff yeah and so he was like creating he created like a production company and kobe had said something that was like i need my next twenty years to make my last twenty years like a foot like the next twenty years need to be the best thing i've ever done and this is coming from one of the greatest hall of fame basketball players whereas if you see what most players do when they retire they go put on a suit they put on thirty pounds and then they go sit at a espn desk and they talk about how the players these days don't get it back in my day we used to be so great and like they'd and they never like move on to the next great adventure and they don't they think it's it's implicit that the best work of their life was behind them and that's why they gain the weight that's why they aren't as happy that's why they're nostalgic for the good old days whereas somebody who looks at it like oh this next chapter is my best chapter and that's a different that person's gonna like go through life a little differently and so he told me he's like when i heard that i thought the same thing like oh yeah great my next company needs to make my last company be this like little afterthought like we'll put it in the appendix of like stuff undone and if i think about it that way then i won't put so much emphasis on it i won't use it as my crutch as like a way to get kind of respect or attention or anything like that i'm gonna only make my new thing the way i do it and and i i really expected that i was like that's great have you heard the song damon feels good to be a gangster of course basically and one of lions he says real gangster don't flex nuts because they know they got them and the that's that's what we're talking about here you don't flex nuts because you know you got them yeah exactly exactly i think that's the that