i feel like i could rule where i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on the roll well i guess we're live pumped do you do do people ever introduced you by your real full name or you just are you are you pop at all times yeah i some people do but people get offended if i go to a conference and i introduce myself as anthony and then later they're like wait your pop like who knows she was anthony like well that is you know my name my my parents didn't name me that well well then then we're gonna keep you as pumped we have pump here pump you've been on the pod a handful of times and we've talked about you a handful of times and we've been on your pod a handful of times and so it's nice to have you back congratulations on on new family member and you're here recently after doing it so we appreciate that yeah of course just just three dads hanging out on the internet who who could have guessed i had a good joke that i didn't get to do the other day when sam alt was in the news and then like it's like jack alt comes out and says something and then max alt comes out and says something and his sister annie alt because i'm like how we fucking alt are there there's more alt and pom autos now what's happening here because i feel like you have like brothers coming out the wood work as well do you feel that your you know you're you're sibling dominance is threatened any anyway by the alt right now i did see people making that joke and i did google how many almonds there are and they are not world old pop us so we're safe for the moment what i don't even know how to describe you so i think a lot of our listeners will know you are so we we don't have to spend that much time but like you started out as like lin kind of a one trick pony you're just basically the guy on twitter who talked about bitcoin but now you've evolved significantly beyond that so you've got like the pop media empire but then you've also like started i don't even know how many businesses many though hold on sam cute can we do an analogy you know pop going from bitcoin laser to real estate and all kinds of other shit that he's doing now is it is this justin timberlake from in sync now going solo justin timberlake like you know what what's the what's the right analogy here who who has made such a transition such a life pivot like this and is there anyone that's done this in hollywood well here's the thing is it's not really a pivot if you kind of expand out off of the internet so if you think about i started my career building companies then i went network to facebook then i started investing and then once i was investing that's really where kind of the bitcoin stuff happened but even the stuff on the internet i worked directly with you know like british sheryl sand for a short period of time at facebook when they were trying to figure out how do they grow their audiences on facebook i remember early on when fuck jerry the instagram account they were trying to go from instagram if figure out what's their facebook strategy and so the reason why i say that is like i don't know think of like a kim kardashian she goes from like sex tape to reality tv star to like entrepreneur billionaire to now like criminal justice reform to i think she's gonna be president in the united states one day and then look at that and you're like actually the same thing that makes the sex tape go viral get you elected to be president today so like in some ways it's actually the exact same skill set just you know packaged up in a different way and with different ambitions or or aspirations you have this really good job of like brute forcing yourself into like interesting net networking opportunity so i feel like i think sean is actually better than this than i am but like i just hang out with a small crew just like internet nerds you've done a really good job of like meeting actual big shots i think right i mean like you i don't even know all the people need you know but you were telling me how you met jillian robertson who's the guy who started tiger man or is tiger management tiger management but you you actually like you and then you just you weren't trying to but you just name jobs z and i think you've worked for snapchat and hung out with evan a bunch you you've done a really good job of like meeting all these like crazy fascinating people you know what i mean yeah i mean i think it's just like if you're curious person other curious people wanna be around those types of folks and then also i probably more so than many of my friends say yes to opportunities even when it's not very clear like what is the purpose for doing this and so if you do that enough times like i just kinda like shots on goal like you will meet some of these fascinating or successful people but each one of them is very different i mean julie robertson that story is mark mark yu who started morgan creek capital management we did a joint venture with him to raise a couple of venture capital funds and mark was this former cio of the un endowment back in their late nineteen nineties early two thousands and at that time julian robertson was kind of like in his heyday right this was like hedge funds were really getting off the ground mark yu and un had a really big hand in getting endowments specifically to invest in these hedge funds and julian robertson was on his board so that's how mark and julian met now as mark told the story eventually julian was like hey this kid chase coleman who now runs tiger global he's leaving i'm gonna give him some money and he sent him down to go talk to mark and gave like the sixth and seventh million dollar to chase coleman to star tiger global now when you look at that you're like okay mark yu and julian robertson had known each other for twenty or thirty years and i think it was twenty nineteen mark calls me up one day and he's like hey now's the time like we're gonna go with me a bunch of like the legends of wall street to and one of them was julian julian was actually the first stop of the day and so the things i remember from it is like one you kinda feel like you're going to meet a legend so like more so than usual you're like nervous but excited and we walk in and he's had the same office for a number of years he had three secretaries which i thought first of was just like that's baller they all sat outside his office and like each had different responsibilities so i was like okay like that's that's different and mind you julien at this point is i think like he's definitely in his eighties and so we go into see him and he sits down kind of in like this like almost like living room area in his office and he was the single most curious legend of wall street i've ever met he sat with us for an hour and just kept be brad me with questions and and just trying to actually understand bitcoin and blockchain technology and all these things and you're just like man this guy does not have to be here right now he does not have to be doing this stuff like he is rich on rich on rich and he's also like pretty old he's gotta know that they're like he doesn't have another fifty years to live but he's sitting here trying to learn and so about halfway through the conversation all of a sudden you could see like the proverbial like light bulb goes off in his head and he just sits back in his couch and looks up at the ceiling and like starts talking to the ceiling and or being like damn am i boring like did i lose them and he had a microphone in the ceiling and a speaker so he could talk directly out to the three like assistance and he basically just started asking like hey send so and so in here like go find this whatever and i was like this guy like built like jarvis in his office like way before anyone else has this he is absolutely a legend so it was a really cool experience unfortunately passed away but but things like that are just you once in a lifetime opportunities that are that are pretty cool and what i know about julian and and maybe sean i don't know if if this guy if you ever re reached research the guy so i'll explain to you but also the listener but julian he once it was called tiger right and it was just tiger management so he started like tiger which was revolutionary and made them worth i don't even know how many billions it was revolutionary why because what what what did they do differently they made good investments or did did they actually do something there he he's one he's one like the very first like true hedge funds right like he basically was hey i'm not just gonna do like value investing like i'm a true hedge fund and i think that he had like a lot of what we all look at on the internet today and we're like that person is doing something interesting it was different he had high conviction and he ended up being right and so he was able to gather a lot of assets he was able to drive a pretty good return and he did it at a time where this whole concept of like hedging or like going long in short wasn't necessarily the traditional way of investing and so i don't know if they actually consider him like the godfather of hedge funds but he basically could be considered that and then you know the lore of julian kind of expanded even more when a bunch of people who work for him left he would seed them and when he would seed them to get them off the ground those guys now known as tiger cubs became very successful tiger global probably being the most successful and so it was like hey he was good as an investor but it was even better at like a talent you know kinda identifier and then seeding these people to create these great firms tiger cubs is like paypal mafia basically a finance but it's way bigger so so google tiger cubs finance wikipedia and you could just go to the wikipedia page the but they have sections where it's called tiger cubs tiger grand cubs and tiger great grand cubs and it's literally it looks like if i'm just scrolling through it looks like a hundred plus names and i guess it's he he found these guys and he because of his culture and because of kind of his vibe they've all kinda taken a little bit a little bit of them and it's some of the biggest names like including that guy what what was the guy named bill who had like that who like brought down the economy was it like unplugged he unplugged wall street accidentally like he got tripped over the cord and unplugged it yeah yeah he like brought down the economy like through a couple bad bets and then there's like chase coleman who is worth i don't know twenty billion dollars who has ty man who who what was it call it he getting on the names wrong tiger and then you have like c couture i just can't even say these names because these are all names at like juicy these are oh wow this guy's prolific man starting gucci c these are it no i know what you're saying it's a word you've only read you've never had to say out loud like you know yeah it's a embarrassing and i was like i just reading this word i don't know what the hell this what's her name i have no idea how you say this it's the words that you accelerate through you just say really quickly and hope no one noticed that you miss mispronounce them what what attributes do you think other than curiosity did he have that kinda spread to all these other guys who have done like for example chase coleman is an interesting one because you can't really like if you google chase coleman the guy's worth i think fifteen billion something in that range there's like four pictures of him and on the internet like what and and so these like mysterious guys are always they're always fascinating what attributes do you think some of these people have that started with julian i i met julian there's a bunch of other folks that i've met over the years that would kind of fall similar to julian and usually it is not unfortunately in a situation where i'm like just wanna learn from you you're usually going to like ask them for something whether it's for money for an introduction or whatever so like the power dynamic is definitely off and it'd be weird like sit they're like hey by the way now that the pitch pitches is over like let me grill you for thirty minutes but in those conversations what you basically find it's like they're all very very curious two is like these guys just have like brass walls right like i don't even know how to describe it other than that they are willing to just make insane bets at times when other people are not you know another person that maybe doesn't get the same fame or recognition as julian but i put up there as one of the best investors over the last fifty years is bill miller and you know bill in the late nineties people were giving them shit because he said he was a value investor but he started to buy tech stocks and so obviously tech exploded he was outperforming everybody there's a book that i originally read where he was the only investor to outperform the s and p five hundred for ten years straight in the nineties and so everyone everyone's was like you're not a real value investor and like first of all like it's stupid to be like oh you don't your your results don't count because like you didn't actually do it the way you said you you're gonna do it but amazon was one of his big bets and so amazon crashes like ninety percent in the dot com crash bill just backs up the truck and buys more and i think at one point he was the single largest outside shareholder of amazon it only like fifteen percent as you look at that and you're like okay one book you have to like find amazon two then you have to like not get scared when it drops like eighty ninety percent and then three is even if you're not scared you then have to like hold your nose and put way more money in to buy it all of this extra like equity and so i think that is a common theme it's just like conviction and and like the ability to just bet over and over again regardless of what's happening and then the last one is like these dudes are junkie man they're obsessed i almost think of it like a kind of a gym rat they not only are curious but like they do the work and so in that book about bill miller they talk about he was in baltimore and he had seats behind a home plate for the baltimore or and he used to bring research reports and read them in the stands in between innings and it's just like like okay nerd right like like that's insane but also like that's why you end up owning fifteen percent of amazon is because like you did the work it doesn't happen by accident so i think that like that's just a great example of all of these folks who've have been super successful those are common themes that they all share that's intimidating i think right like to hear the stories it's like what i wanna when i hear that i get i not my real is no more intimidated phrase then that's intimidating i think right i i'm scared right guys no you're right and also i think the hard part is is the the line between genius and idiot so so thin it's like oh am i bill miller backing up the truck you know when amazon crash ninety percent or am i just a fucking idiot putting all my money into a loser that like is showing it's a loser right now and you know that you know the history is told years later and so i think that's the the hard part is you have to have not just conviction in the investment you have to have conviction in yourself that i despite the market conditions despite the current results right now able to correctly differentiate between a winner and a looser if you don't have that conviction in yourself you can't even make you can't even have the conviction and an investment to pull that off yeah you're basically saying i'm smarter than everyone else right everyone else is selling this thing yeah and i'm gonna go buy it and like i mean again that's why they call them you know kinda like the masters of the universe in the hedge fund world is like the people who up make a lot of money they actually seem to be smarter than everyone else now how many of those are there well there's way less than the number of people who claim to be you know those masters of the universe and that's i think sean like the difference between the fools and the geniuses well i'll tell a story that's that's like that my my friend was in he's in real estate and he was around he was he making his fortune or early four he was like think his mid twenties two thousand six two thousand seven and then two thousand eight happens and who you know he's going from zero to you know twenty five million dollars in like two three years thinks he's you know super smart and two thousand and eight happens and he described it later he's like i he's like oh there was like a tunnel and everyone was running out like there was a fire on the other side of the tunnel and they were running out and they were like here take this and i was like wow they're just giving me this this is amazing this is way like this price is fantastic is that i just kept marching forward and everybody else is running away screaming fire and handing me their their assets on the way out and yeah it turns out i should have ran away from the fire because he lost everything at that oh crashed now it's that same you know the that same feeling would be there if the dot com crash everybody's yelling fire running away selling things for pennies on the dollar and you know the difference i think ultimately comes down to a do you can you can you tell yourself why you were buying something when everybody else is selling do you have a belief in this right like you know i heard somebody say once i had somebody else who made a fortune during the dot com crash and she goes she goes yeah it amazing everything was on sale it was black friday everything was eighty percent off i couldn't believe it the best companies in the world were eighty percent off and i don't know if they were gonna return back to where they were then but i just knew these are still the best companies in the world and you know they're now eighty percent off and and so you know i think that there's there's you hear stories on both sides and i think this he's gotta be careful that you know you don't wanna be the guy running into the fire and how do you differentiate i think you have to have like some ground truth that you believe that but you you're willing to stand on you're willing to lose on you're to look back and say i'm okay if i'm wrong on this i'm willing to lose the money i lost if i if it turns out that this this idea was incorrect but when you guys hear those stories is this like one of those things where you're watching a u fight in you're little drunk and you're like you know i think i could maybe get a lucky punch and compete you know what i mean or do you guys hear this and you're like i'm just not in the same league or or i don't even want to be you know what i mean like do you do what what's your reaction when you hear the stories i mean i think it just depends on like this quote unquote circle of competence right you know if you look back there's only one time in my life where i've had the conviction felt like it did the work and like really backed up the truck and that was the bitcoin stuff and bitcoin had gone from a thousand to twenty thousand and twenty seventeen it crashed down to like thirty two hundred bucks and i went on national television and i was like basically you guys ready idiots it's like this thing is going to come flying back or buying you know blah whatever we actually what one of my favorite memories that's kind of got like lost in in the internet archives is we issued a million dollar bet to anyone on wall street and we were like we'll take bitcoin you take any other asset like just pick anything over the next ten years if you beat us like you get a million bucks if bitcoin outperform we get a million bucks and no one took it and so at some point you're just like okay that's enough of a signal that like people may not have conviction but they also like know the person not to bet against and i think like that's something in u is like you may look at like a card and you're like okay i think i know who's gonna win like these five you know matches but that one match i think i know who's gonna win but i'm not gonna bet against the other person so i'm like sit that one out i feel like a lot of times there's that level of conviction across the market and so amazon you know people knew it was like a pretty good company but no one had the conviction to buy same thing with bitcoin when it crashed like everyone was like i think this is interesting but like i don't have the conviction to buy so really it's less of a leap sometimes than than people realize but again i've been doing this now for a decade there's one time i can think of that i was like oh yeah i think i actually know something everyone else doesn't any other time i've even tried to think that way i'm like i'd probably could lose all my money i should just you know sit sit down yeah yeah i think that's a good point you have to identify that these things shouldn't be like once every month you have this this grand new conviction bet it's like maybe once in a decade that you you you see something that that is so non consensus but you believe in it's also hilarious did did anybody consider taking you up on that deal were they just like somebody walked into tiger they're like a sir tony pom lia auto has has offered a million dollar bet and they're like i don't know tony i i i'm out on that like did anybody even like it register like why what happened do you wanna know like cnbc wrote an article about it it was like it was definitely out there right but here's the funny part about the whole thing the people who were like were even considering it were like all the like fools that just wanted like media coverage so they were like trying to come up with these like weird you know aspects of the deal like okay i'll take your bet but we have to take the return divided by two times it by like the number of times i jump on my head you know and then also i get a multiple plot and we're just like you're way too smart for us obviously like we just wanna straight up bet if you're shouldn't that let us know yeah also they could've have perfectly hedge that bed i think if they just bought it bitcoin in addition to making the bet right so like yeah i like to i think we issued the bet before the smart people started paying attention so like yeah we we were good or somebody would have figured out how to definitely beat us on you inspired by the warren buffett million dollar s p four hundred bet that the is that what where you you take into of course i think that that was one of the smartest things that he's done like buff buffett is interesting because a lot of the advice that he gives i think is you know pretty solid you know circle of competence being one you know kind of value investing like like all these things that we're kind of talking about here i i think very much draws back to buffett and then obviously a graham and dodd and all these guys but he also like a master marketer like warren buffett was the original finance influencer right and i i've joked a million times that if he was today buffett in his thirties you'd have a subs a twitter account a podcast he'd be streaming on tiktok like doing all this stuff and so he understood how to like leverage the tools he had at the time with the media and so he didn't need to do it but a way to really continue to drive like the lure of warren buffett is like issue the bet and say no hedge fund manager can beat the s and p over like a decade or whatever we just talked about around the in the nineties only bill miller did right so it's very hard there was like a period where i remember i was like beating myself up even over this podcast where i was like am i gonna be a content creator or or am i gonna be a businessman man who actually does the damn thing and i started reading you know i i read a lot of buyer buyer and i actually started thinking about it differently and you realized that a lot of these great people whether in business or not they actually had newsletters and they like i remember what's the guy's name cha cha like recently came out with like a newsletter and remember they like why the hell does this guy need to do this why is he doing this paid newsletter but then like warren buffett his annual letters were basically newsletters i mean he he wrote him as such and then like i remember reading about like ben franklin ben franklin had a newspaper and he actually wrote constantly about this i'm reading about george washington george washington constantly wrote editorial or bill act does this you know where he he's like he he's twitter now but before that he had some other things and i remember thinking like no actually like some of these great who are great business people also are content producers you know maybe they're not that's not their income source but they they really are like wonderful content people you know what i'm talking about i i like how you just used content producer content producer is is nice that's that's better than content creator which is better than influencer actually i think that's all that we need guys is like you just laid out your like do wanna be a content creator like an influencer or a businessman and i think we actually just need to be content man like i think we need to like we just need to level up the phrase so that we don't sound like little bitches when we it's like oh i'm i'm a i'm a content creator who tweets all day it's like no no you're a businessman man i'm a content man we're just couple a couple of men couple of producers well i remember one time we had this guest on and sean asked this particular guest this particular guest created courses and sean said something where sean goes you know i create courses too and sometimes i feel like a fraud because if i'm so good at this instead of teaching it i should just go and do it and i thought that was a really good question and this question really offended this person but sean you didn't mean it to offend this person and and so i wasn't i didn't think that they should have been upset but i also had that same like i'm like well that's in my a fraud but then you start thinking about it well you know warren buffett actually taught a dale carnegie course he actually also taught a finance course i forget at which university but it's actually common that some of these people are teaching are creating and that has kinda helped me like feel like less you know like less embarrassed sometimes about what i do i i think that you can go through tons of entrepreneurs you can go through tons of you know kind of financial managers this is very very common and there's a question of if you can't teach it do you actually understand it right like it's almost like a flip side to it but if you really kind of just zoom out you're like okay what is all this content stuff i i've been there right people would be like oh he has a podcast and i used be like cringe it was like somebody like stabbed me in the stomach and twisted it when they would introduce me that way right and i'm like you're disrespect all this other work that i did to say that i have a podcast like yes have a podcast but also like i wear shoes are you gonna introduce me as like oh pop shoes and so i remember going back in my thing about way dude it's it's it's it's like calling milk cat food you know what i mean it's like saying like this is cat food yeah it's like you that's totally fair so when what when you eventually realize this it's like it's just marketing right at the end of the day like it really is just marketing and whether it's twitter whether it's podcast podcasts whatever the people who went tend to be good at it don't think of it and and like sit down like create a marketing calendar like don't know they're like taking a poop and they bought up their phone they start tweeting like random things they're like they go viral right at the end of the day it's just marketing and so in some weird way maybe we all shouldn't like be ashamed or cringe when people say that stuff like if you're better known for how good you are at marketing like maybe that's actually telling you something right and and so i think it's we all have that as almost like a something that eats at us or like an insecurity but whatever who cares like if they could do it they do it themselves yeah to clarify sam like i never said fraud fraud means one thing i said i feel like a little bitch when i do courses and there's a big difference fraud means are representing yourself a little bitch means you're representing yourself as a little bitch and and you have to ask yourself is that accurate or is that not accurate and yeah that's how i felt sometimes i felt like a little bit for for doing courses when it's like should i be doing something else with my time this is i like to teach but but maybe maybe that's like you know not the best use of time sorry i i para phrase that incorrectly i was trying i i i actually think i made you sound better but you know i honest i'd rather be honest okay pumped you brought some ideas for us you know that this is the idea of podcast you brought some ideas let's rattle them off so start with number one what ideas and trends or opportunities do you see right now in the market yeah so this this first one is one that we're actually doing so i thought a lot about it housing affordability is the worst that's been in this century we continue to see people are worried like hey i wanna buy a house i should i rent should i buy what are interest rates is gonna do all these different things but there's no dominant voice in terms of news commentary and data and so we start a company called res club the idea really in the beginning is just go educate people about what is happening and so i'm not an expert on residential real estate i don't know that many other experts on residential real estate so we were able to partner up with a gentleman named lance lamp lance was the real estate editor at fortune magazine so he's like coco legit right he's got seventy five thousand phones on twitter a lot of people in the industry i'll follow him and we basically just said to him like look man we wanna go build the dominant platform in residential real estate coverage why don't we do it together we know how to scale things we how to grow this stuff and monetize you know the content you are the expert and slows let's partner up and so we've done ahead we've got started it's about two months old and you know i love these types of businesses because they kinda look stupid almost in the beginning they're like oh you guys just like created a newsletter but yeah that's exactly what we did and then it turns into like a media site and then it turns into a data product and then like i don't know ten years from now are we gonna have the information where we can go and seed like you know general contractors in different markets actually build affordable housing like maybe and so you start with this small little thing that you can build profit and you don't have to raise money or or kinda do anything where there's these you know huge expectations but as you grow the business you can increase your ambition over time so i think a lot of people start with like massive ambition like let's go to mars and sure there are some companies where that definitely makes sense but for businesses like this it's just like hey there's a problem in around housing affordability a lot of people aren't talking about it we should have more people talking about it and then we'll figure out how big it can get and how ambitious we can be over time but we kinda earn the right to go do that and that's what we're doing how much did you fund it with a way less than people would think we were profitable within the first month and so we actually wouldn't have even need to put money into the bank account but i think we put a hundred thousand dollars to get started and never touched it because basically you know within the first week we were profitable and the market for this is is it brokers real estate agents that wanna pay for this or are you look at investors or is it the average person who might be you know on zillow looking for a home yeah so the beauty of residential real estate is it's the largest asset class in the world but none of us who are like oh we're so smart we're like business people were finance people we have podcasts we never think about residential real estate as like the large asset class in the world we're like oh stocks or crypto or bonds or whatever and so what you end up getting is it's a very niche thing in that it's residential real estate but it's a very big thing and that it's large asset class in the world and so what that involves is home builders it involves real estate agents it involves people who wanna buy or sell homes it involves people who are doing mortgages like lenders etcetera so there's like huge kind of ecosystem of folks who all need to be aware of what's happening in this industry and so it's one of these great businesses where it's it's like small and specific but also large and and broad at the same time and i think you're doing it why so i'm looking at your pay wall and you're saying that like basically you get access to a regional housing tracker data like some type of data set i think that's smart who it was it just lance because it looks like lance is doing all of the writing is he also somehow aggregating all of this data as well so lance is think of him as like the editor in chief like like this guy is lights out right and so as soon as he was like interested i was like oh what do we need to do how do we like run through brick walls to like get to work with you so it's very much like go find partners that you like look up to and wanna learn from etcetera and he does all of the content today eventually there will be an entire team but i think one of the big lessons that i've learned over the last you know five or six years of kind of like playing on the internet and build these businesses if you just don't need that much and yes we have an advantage i've got a big audience right lance been doing this for a long time and and really understands how to create content and and kinda write articles and and interview people etcetera but at the end of the day we've now created multiple businesses like this where we start with like two or three people and you can run for six or twelve months and get them profitable with serious cash flow and then you start to hire a team salespeople people other editorial folks etcetera can i give you a critique yeah i think this is awesome i love the real deal which is the a real estate blog your your premium pro plan is a hundred and fifty dollars a year that is so stupid man why aren't you charging way more it's so hard to do stuff on a hundred and fifty dollars a year yeah we we like for for sure we'll increase the price but if you think about a lot of times like even i'll give you another example so barrier times is a kind of daily news for tech business and financed and started as an email and when you're building these businesses you basically have a choice you can like have a high cpm and be okay with not selling out a hundred percent of the ads sometimes or you can have a lower cpm and just sell out the ads i tend to always go for like let's sell out all of the ad inventory and build the muscle of being able to do it and you can always raise prices this later same thing here with this subscription for res club is starting at a hundred and fifty bucks it's like if you're interested in this and we're actually crediting something valuable there is zero friction for you paying a hundred and fifty bucks a year over time we will increase the price but that's much better and gives us a better signal then let's say we came out with like a thousand dollar a year and people are like man this is valuable but it's not worth a thousand dollars at least now we know okay we have something that people want it's helpful to them they're not churning and now we gotta go and do price discovery over the next twelve months or so and we'll figure out what that price point is but i'd rather start with a lower price make sure we've got the right product and then raise prices late i like this idea a lot i think it's a really good idea this is like a fifty dollars to hundred million dollar win bootstrap i think it's gonna be great you know maybe more but like i think that's a a very realistic outcome from this but i gotta ask you you know it's interesting to see ideas when you're at the end of the idea maze meaning like you figure out like oh this is the opportunity we should go with you're a guy who's got a thousand different opportunities that's a different ideas of what you could go do can you walk me through the idea maze how did you land at this and like what were the kind of like other paths that you considered and you know like for example you this is residential why i'm not commercial should it even be real estate or should it be finance because actually you have a good foothold finance and i'm sure i you we haven't talked about this but i am sure that there was a little bit of a walk down in idea looking for oh wait what is the real opportunity here and then it all sorts starts to come together you get the right operator you figure out the right idea the right brand then you go for it hundred percent so this one's actually a great one to talk about this because we actually i would call like a false start we had partnered with somebody else who they were not in residential real estate the way that they cut the market was by geography and so they were very focused on south florida and so it was like okay we think that there's a massive business to build that content first that eventually leads to kinda data products that is in the real estate market and when we got started we didn't know a lot of people right so i went around and i talked a couple people i found someone i said hey they do really good work it was a person i really enjoyed kinda working with and and talking to you on a day to day basis and so we got started but it was very much like small geography all about south florida and then the idea was like we'll go to like tampa and then we'll go to like orlando and then we'll go to atlanta and then we'll like just go through these geographies and it didn't work for a whole bunch of different reasons probably some of it was our fault some of it was the other person was you know very focused on like what they wanted to do in terms of the the content they had already been creating and and so we kinda just were like hey this isn't that this like explosive thing the market isn't like pulling this into existence and so like rather than bang our heads against the wall for the next ten years together like you had a great thing going before we came along and try to convince you to do this with like why don't you just keep doing that thing i don't wanna like you know hinder your success and your growth and then we'll like go back to the drawing board and so that's the second attempt was with this res club and so you're right that like one there's an dm maze but also i think a lot of people don't realize how often there's false starts to these businesses nikita bai who is i i think friends of of all of ours he's talked about this a bunch with consumer social apps he's like product market fit is not a single metric like you just know right it's like everything's exploding and you obviously a product market fit but in both of the apps tb h and gas that he launched and eventually sold to facebook and then a discord i think he's publicly described many times he would launch it it wouldn't hit they would go back like make a couple changes like launch it again and sometimes he would launch like five six seven eight nine ten times and then eventually there was the right combination of all these things that work and so there's two ways to do entrepreneurship one is like i'm gonna bend the world to my will and like here's the thing that's gonna work for regardless what the market tells me i'm gonna make it happen and then there's like this iterative approach and a lot of these things that i work on are much more iterative and so you just have to be really good at like go a hundred percent in run the test as perfectly as possible but be willing to cut bait and try a different combination of of the inputs if for some reason it's not exploding in the way that you want to sean you gotta tell the nikita story which one just just the the this last one this last thing that he did yeah he was he was telling as he was building the app and launching it over and over it again and ren it and like what was happened one time they renamed it to one thing and then it like took off in the gay market he's like all he did was change the name of the app and it appealed to like you know only gay people and then he changed the app name and they went back and it it chain you know it changed how the app was going you know he i think he says something that he's like you know the most important thing for a consumer startup is like develop a machine that will allow you to launch tests like real like high fidelity tests of your product like that is actually your most important product at the beginning which i kind of agree with but also kinda disagree with i i think that's a really good way to do the apps he's trying to do which are like it doesn't work if it doesn't have a k factor over one right like if it's not viral his apps literally like don't work and then this app was like i don't really care about retention long term anything like it was like i'm gonna get you in it's gonna spam invite your friends and then there's a pay wall and i need like two percent of people to to buy the in app purchase and if under two percent of people do it this doesn't really like make a lot of money but if i get two percent or more this thing will make a few million dollars of profit in the next ninety days and you know so that work really well for that but if you go look at how some of the great like consumer products are built they didn't do any of that shit like pinterest it's not like pinterest sitting around being like okay i need to create a system where i can launch systematically in high schools over and over again until i get this correct right and you know facebook and snapchat like they did eventually figure out a way to like roll out and grow that that they did but they didn't have this like thousand shots on goal with different variations trying to get the viral vitality to be just right like i like i think when nike nikita to doing is awesome because it's such a different game than when anybody else really was playing however you know his advice is basically like how to build a virus not how to create the next like you know social network and i think people think of him as the genius consumer social network guy and it's like no he's basically built like viruses that goes on teams phones and you know like that that he's very very good at it's like what are you optimizing for right you know if you wanna build the next great social network like yeah k factor matters in the beginning but actually what matters more is like what is the thirty sixty ninety day retention if you wanna just like go viral and be on every single you know fourteen year olds phone in america then the only thing that matters is k factor right and what do you think apps both of his apps within i don't know a hundred days of getting acquired or two hundred days of getting acquired you know shut down and run off to zero right because they didn't have retention but the one thing i would give him a ton of credit for it which i think was really impressive was a you went back to the well what most people don't do is they do a space they become super knowledgeable about it they get so jade and have so much scar tissue that even though they are the best equipped person of the world to go back and build in that space again they are so turned off they go become a beginner and something else which i think is a fine life choice to make from like a variety of life but like not optimal from a from like playing the game of entrepreneurship the second thing is he was in the world of i'm gonna build a hit hit social app and the way that it hit social app works is like get a hundred million plus users and then start to make money on ads and like raised venture capital to do all this when he went back the second time he like broke down the fourth wall of silicon valley was like what if i don't fund this and what if i just like charge a little bit of money and like what if i just make a few million dollars of profit like every every month and like i don't know how long it'll last but i think i can make like whatever you know like five million bucks in in the summer that sounds pretty awesome let me try to do that and nobody nobody in consumer so like the mobile gaming guys were like yeah of course like get a bunch of downloads and then charge like you know a small amount and see if you can you know make you know your key metric is arp but like the the mobile gaming guys don't build social apps the social apps guys don't build mobile games the those guys don't build enterprise sales like people very rarely are able to like rethink the rules of their game and he re thought the rules of the consumer social game and was like i'm gonna build a consumer social app but it's gonna have the monetization of a mobile game and i think in basically like a six month span it made like seven or eight million dollars in in know gross revenue with like you know and you know it was very profitable for him in that period time then he sold the and the the you know that that is a very impressive way to like most people can't do that those can't rewrite the rules of the of their industry of their game there's two things that you maybe think of the first is there's a whole group of these people who are like trying to rewrite the rules or think about this differently one of my favorite examples and i don't wanna share who it is because i don't know they're they're okay with it but they created like a ability to make photos in your instagram story blurry and basically you would have to pay on apple pay to like un blur the photo so obviously like all the only fan girls would put it on their instagram story and it'd be like just blurry enough where people like oh that looks like something i might really like looking at and then they pay like two dollars five dollars ten dollars like whatever it was set at and so you're like bootstrapping off of these massive audiences these people already have but it's like a little feature and they don't raise money for it it's just like basically how much money can we generate as quickly as possible and i mean they make a lot of money right and so it works so it is possible speaking of folks who go back to the well do you guys know who brad jacobs is yeah he created like six billion dollar companies now or something like that he's the go we're i'm trying to i've been trying to get him on the pod i've been trying i i can't i can't he's gotta book coming out he'll he'll definitely come on he's got a book coming out so he's one hundred percent going on i can't get touch with them we'll we'll talk later but he's one hundred percent going at everyone's podcast because he's got a book coming out was like the best time to get these guys but so about four or five years ago somebody like almost like like a back alley drug deal was like check out brad jacobs and i was like never heard of them who's that got on wikipedia and literally for a week and a half like didn't sleep was just like all over scouring the internet i trying to figure out like what obscure podcast podcasts that this guy do because he just did it over and over and over again and what he essentially does is he just does roll ups like wayne he goes another guy who's like famous for doing this and what brad did is just figure out a business model figure out a funding mechanism start winning and then go around and tell everyone like hey i'm gonna do the same playbook and i'm gonna win again and then people gave all money so explain what he did so one of the things that they did was in the waste industry which also wayne had a had a big one as well in the waste industry basically they would go and and where he started was he didn't go to major markets he didn't even go like what he calls like secondary markets he basically went to like pod towns it was like i'm gonna buy the landfill and then once he bought the landfill he was like okay there's like seven companies that all pick up trash in the surrounding air and they bring to this landfill and he was just like let's start like sniper off each one of them he'd buy the first one he'd buy the second one the third one and eventually he owned all seven of the companies plus the landfill and so he just did this across the country and he would roll it all up that one was like i think early nineties it was called united waste systems and so he took that company public and it ended up being like a multi billion dollar outcome he's done that same thing like six or seven times now and so you're just like okay building a billion dollar company cool building two you're like damn like you you've got the the golden touch if you do more than five there's like one of you right i think he's done it with so he did the waste management management thing then he did united rentals which was like renting heavy like dump trucks and and porta pot and bob podcasts and things like that then he did it with ex xo logistics i think which is currently public xp which is currently a publicly traded company and i think he did it two or three other times i mean he's done it many many times i think his book is called how to make a billion dollars or something like that like it's it's a pretty it's a pretty baller title like and if you coming on my first million look quite literally beneath me you wanna know something funny about about how he drives himself he's like you know i'm a career ceo serial entrepreneur like he's very much like what you would expect from a guy who's built multiple billion dollar companies but if you google his name you know on linkedin how there is like a like a preview of the website on linkedin it's says brad jacobs is an influencer because i think he has like the influencer like categorization on linkedin and they just like autofill it but it's like the classic imagine telling brad jacobs like you're not really like a multi billion dollar entrepreneur you're just an influencer he like blow a gasket yeah that's so true that's what it says his first op link on google brad jacobs is an influencer period got like it's stop to disrespect that man the reason is cool is like okay so he lives in gran connecticut he wears like a suit and tie most of the time he's he's he looks like a he looks like a suit and i'm sure he's very professional and a wonderful ceo but if you actually like listen into some of the things he says he's way more of a he's way more entrepreneurial than like his picture looks you know what i mean like he he's got that he's got that artist vibe a little bit the the guy's the guy's is special he's very fascinating but before his book came out and or is coming out he's been really under the radar for how successfully is he's a really fascinating knit person yeah the the what of my favorite activities is like if you ever reading an article like bloomberg does this a lot and actually the financial times they'll like randomly talk about these like really wealthy people and i'll just immediately you know copy paste google like hey who is this person and recently i did it and let me see if i could find this guy's name real quick because it was like one of these things where as soon as is you go down the rabbit hole you're like wow this is like a whole different game what is this student's name oh here you go benny stein metz so they call them an israeli ty but he like got into bunch of trouble and there was like fraud and i think he maybe even got arrested etcetera but like he's in the commodities game and you're like i've never heard of benny stein metz he sounds like he's built some massive companies but also in the commodities game like sometimes there's gold in the mine and other times there's a promise of gold in the mine you know type thing and so you're just like how many of these people are out there that are not on the internet or not well known into like internet circle and sure you can go look at the forbes four hundred you can go look at like all these lists that people put together there's way more people that are completely unknown than i think known and so it does kinda remind you like you don't you only gotta be right once or twice and you can achieve immense amount of wealth or success by doing just like the basic things go buy assets that end up being valuable if you google this guy he looks like one of these guys that can like find a pressure point on your neck that makes you like collapse he looks he looks he looks very legitimately like a killer and i've researched him as well he was in the id idea so like he's a trained military guy and if you google them he looks scary he looks like he'll he'll plate the sleep what other ideas are interesting to you at the moment so i'll give you a couple of categories there's one that i the best name i had for is like persistent patrol companies so if you think about one of the big problems that city states and the national government's gonna have is like they have to get more money they're broke right and if you're broke you either like cut your costs as much as possible or you go make more money they're not gonna cut costs they're gotta make more money one of the best examples is in new york city the congestion tax that's one of the few taxes that i'm on board with you're on board okay alright let me explain what it is first and then and then we can debate the way it works is like i don't know nine to five monday through friday if you drive from like outside of lower manhattan into lower manhattan they charge you like twenty bucks like it's a pretty large tax every single day so it only just charged one time but you can imagine all the cars that are driving from above fifty ninth street below fifty ninth street between nine to five monday through friday and they're gonna hit with this twenty dollar tax it's way from the city to raise more money get more income it's called a congestion taxes the first one in the united states but this has been happening in europe and other places for quite a while so it's not a new concept it's just new to america they're also considering charging people like a thousand dollars a month or something really high in order to own a car in the city there's all kinds of ideas because it all comes back to this thing like they need more money right that they're broke and over the last couple of years in cities like new york people who were paying a lot in taxes they left like there's the infamous story of david t he was in new jersey and he was responsible for three percent of the state's budget in the the taxes he personally paid and he moved to florida and there's always these articles that were like the state of new jersey is gonna go broke because david t is moving and so i think it was for like some sort of a family medical situation he moved for a couple years when he moved back the way the story goes is that he called up the state treasurer and was like y you got a hundred and twenty million come to you next year like put into your budget back like wealthy people yeah it's and it's new jersey it's not like it's like north dakota but i think the state of new jersey was dependent on this guy for material percentage of of of their state budget so wealthy people have been moving so my idea is like how are they going to get more revenue right now a lot of revenue is derived from like parking tickets or like stupid things where they have humans walking around trying to like catch people doing these that not supposed to be doing so i think there's gonna be an entire rise of businesses that just use computer vision to do the same thing like anything that can be automated will be automated rather than have humans with their lazy eyes walking around just have computers that constantly monitor it so parking tickets is an easy one fire marshals like how many times have you gone to an event and it's like you know fire marshal so two hundred and twenty people can be here you know i think there's a thousand people in this rubric battle right so like they can just automate okay you hit with five hundred dollar fine every single time of this event venue etcetera elevators like you can just go through this and see over and over again that computer vision will just become like the person's persistent deny it's scary like i don't like the idea of this but i do think someone's gonna build this technology and it's not gonna be the government and so we're likely to see a huge rise of these businesses that used what is pretty like standard technology at this point to just like count the number of humans walking into a building and stay on top of it so that the government can generate more of it well there's also like in la don't they have the mansion tax right like it's like oh if you sell a home for more than five million dollars there's just like here's a new tax and they're like what what are these new york has it too live in small homes like they'll never do it they'll never downsize like we got them we can charge literally anything we want and they're still gonna pay it no i i i kind of agree with you that that getting this revenue streams is gonna be that'd be important obviously i hate the idea of the like persistent patrol computers basically finding you for for taking every up but i think you're you're know the the root thing you're talking about like how do you help governments make more money is gonna be a business opportunity because you're right they they do need there's a competition right now between taxes and tipping like when you go to the coffee shop there's literally going to be a competition between is on the bill if it's itemized does the government get more money out of the bill or does the tipping because we've become this like tipping society where somebody like pours a coffee and they're like that'll be fifteen percent on top of the bill and so if the government continues to increase sales tax like very much these bills are gonna get inflated because it's just everyone's got more hands in the cookie jar so sean new york has a mansions tax do you wanna know what the threshold is in order to pay it no what is it alright so keep in mind i think the average sale of a new york home is like eight hundred thousand the tax starts at a million dollars so basically right do you have a search bedroom mentioned yeah so they're mansion tax i i think it's close to four percent it ranges i but i think it goes up to four percent so basically if you purchase a two bedroom apartment in new york city you basically have to say alright here's an additional forty thousand just for buying or is it for selling i don't remember which one but someone pays roughly twenty thirty forty thousand dollars for a two bedroom apartment that and so they have it as well in new york city it's pretty wild i mean that's like a five thousand dollar mortgage payment right like if you're were like hey i wanna pay seven eight thousand dollars for a two bedroom i'm an incident that buy and i'm gonna have to pay forty five hundred or five thousand dollars with eight percent interest rates on my mortgage like a million bucks like yeah that if you're getting hit with the mansion tax it's pretty wild but yeah new york has that new york gets you in in so many different ways that it's a very challenging place to live because of that you live in here europe right i do live in new york like what will it take for you to move basically nothing like at this point i'm not gonna move i moved and i think that i've come to the realization that i'm willing to pay for the experience like yes the taxes are higher but i feel like the money that i give on those higher taxes is very much in exchange for the density of new york city the experience like all of that and so to some degree it's like the biggest expense i pay every year but it's because of the quality of life or a specific type of quality of life that i want and so i just come to you know terms with it and like you know stroke the check every year and compared to other cities new york does a half decent job of like making it feel like you're you're getting what you paid for you know you've got a good parks subway system whatever but damn it's still challenging particularly i mean you're in florida for a while i'm in texas at the moment when i'm thinking about going to new york i'm like golly this changes the math a lot the math changes at a significant amount it just close your eyes that don't look yeah alright i got well i got one more idea before we go which is ai agents i don't know i sent you guys the link but this kit i don't know this guy jacob greenfield we love we love him i don't know him either but he posts amazing stuff he he immediately is awesome in my book because he posted this yesterday and i was thinking like what we talk about today and he basically used these ai agents which like that's all i know about them is they're called ai agents but they like go and do these jobs and so he was like alright i'm gonna go have an ai agent that finds opportunities and i'm going to score the opportunities based on like how much money could i make and how difficult would it be to execute and he basically populated this whole list and then he's like but i'm gonna create a second ai agent that then goes and looks at all of the opportunities that are high earning potential low difficulty and i'm gonna have them create a plan on how i could actually execute to do that thing and then he's probably gonna create like a third ai agent and be like and then i'm gonna have them carry out the plans from ai agent number two but it's just like again yes you have to be technical to be able to figure some of this stuff out or or work with technical people but the world is changing at a very rapid pace and what we're seeing is everyone was worried about like the blue collar worker was gonna get automated away like damn it sounds like jacob is automating away my first million mike goodness but all of a sudden no one has was of the podcast they're just gonna get excel sheet with like how do i get rich without doing a lot of work and and go do those opportunities right so so it's cool to see but i i do think that there's a lot of things that people are gonna figure out here of just like how to find better opportunities without having to spend you know thousands of hours doing the research this is awesome this tweet is awesome i'm looking at it now this is very good they are awesome but also like like okay i i like like i think the it's like one of these things where like the demo shows you what's possible but the demo is not like usable in the feel like you know the same way kind of about vr right now like every time i buy the new vr i buy the new vr every time it comes out and then i put it on and i'm like holy shit this is amazing i can't wait to show five other people this and then i'm gonna put it on the shelf and not touch it for a year like but it soon this will be like this will be it'll it'll they'll solve all the pain points like you know you used to have to be t to a computer now you don't it used to be where it was really hot and sweaty in there and now it's not used to not be able to see the room when you're there there and now you could see through you could see the room like they're improving at one step at a time like for example though things on this list are you know like clean energy solutions for shipping innovating fuel our alternatives like okay yeah yep sure money maker you how read that last forever you know cool yeah i got you pop why isn't real estate blog on here not enough money and way too difficult or is real estate blog it didn't make the top thirty so i think the idea of this is really cool but you know it practice like if if somebody sat down was like great i'm gonna do that thing i'm gonna go use that thing to make it happen i i don't think any of if it's like usable at this point i will give you one example that i think is usable so i think somebody could do this right now i think you know somebody who wants to play a different game could go play this game upwork has like i don't know three to or four billion dollars of gm every year of people basically paying for tasks that get done it up and i'm pretty sure a huge number of abort tasks and fiber tasks are auto right now or like maybe they're not a hundred percent automated but like you could take that same person use you know use ai use use you you you use technology in order to be like ten extra output five extra output so you get just like better leverage operational leverage i think if somebody combined private equity and ai you could go roll up and buy the top profiles on a upwork and fiber so you basically buy the search juice that these guys have so that they're gonna get the top like you know logo design you're gonna go get the top jobs because you're the number one ring because you were there since twenty thirteen on five or whatever and i think you could go buy all of those and then you could put them all under one roof and be like that's wild we're gonna use ai to fulfill a huge number of these and you could make a lot of money because those little properties on top of fiber on top of upwork those are valuable rental properties essentially they go get income every month but now you have a way to get more margin out of that rental i think already could buy them at a good price because nobody else is really buying those but on top of that you could probably get some more operational leverage at it this was the whole idea that like t and other amazon ag had was they were gonna like go buy up a bunch of amazon stores and i know somebody who financed a lot of them and his thesis was like if you're the first search result for a very popular product that is like real estate and so it's like location location location like you are the first search result and so you'll constantly get traffic obviously there's platform risk if there's some sort of algorithm change or whatever but they're were able to kinda model out that risk the hard part is like you're doing in physical goods in on amazon and what you're talking about is like you're basically just dealing with software and so there is one hundred percent somebody some obscure place in the world who is like the best fiber logo designer right now and they are just like a mid journey like power user yeah right and so it's like okay i used to be able to design x number of logos per month now i can do one hundred x that and oh you wanna give me feedback no problem i'll just change the prompt to make it exactly what you want and i can do it in you know one one hundredth of the time yeah like that sounds awesome to that person and frankly like that how the world should work but you should pay the same for the results should buy the result not the amount of work and like that person after having figured out how to do it is going to be financially rewarded like we want that financial or economic system to be exactly how business works do you of all these companies that you're working on how much time are you allocating to each one how how many businesses do you have now i don't know how many let's just call like around ten i i think of it kind of a like a two by two matrix to some degree there are some businesses that are young and need lots of time and then there are a lot of companies that are older and don't need as much time the only thing that changes between those two things is like fires right so it's like if you look at my day it is mostly distributed to the companies that are just getting off the ground we're trying to figure out how to build momentum we're trying to get the profitability we're trying to like figure out the first couple of hires we're trying to like make sure we got the product correct like all those types of things and then maybe twenty percent fifteen percent of my day is like oh we just lost a big customer or there's some like fire to put out with one of the companies that's already pretty mature but after the first i don't know six months like the company works or it doesn't and if it works then actually i'm probably doing the company a disservice if i'm like still meddling in the day to day like decision making a leadership of the business we have somebody who runs the company like they should be the ones to sync or swim and i think they appreciate the autonomy to just go do it themselves without you know having me like micro manage them over their shoulder the only thing that i do is every week i get a weekly update and frankly like i read them you know i give a little bit of feedback there but it's more so for the people who run the company because it forces them just to write down you know do we get done this week and no one including myself if wants to send an update it's like we got nothing done so that's really the only thing that's like persistent week week out regardless of the the the age of the business how are you balancing the two things of a like buy versus build so i think sean and andrew wilkinson they're toy around the idea of buying parts of companies or holy only owning companies that they buy as well as focus of well these one or two things could have outs outside returns that should only do those yeah so buying first build is like really interesting i've gone back and forth over the years like we've bought a couple of businesses not a lot but but a few and we've obviously built a number of them and you know there's a sector right now that i'm looking at it's in the media space it's very specific type of audience i think that it's kind of a unique thing i'm i'm not usually big on like ideas are valuable this to me is just like we understand something about an audience that most other people haven't yet discovered and so we think that it could be interesting to go after there's two players in the market that are well known in that industry again it's a a niche but also like very big and both players you'd probably have to pay like over a hundred million dollars to buy them in in kind of total cost and you probably can't buy a minority stake and so it's like at this point given our track record i probably could go try to figure out you know a bunch of these like biggest institutional investors who wanna buy media businesses and like go put it together it's a lot of work yet to convince someone to sell it to you you have to get the terms right integration like like there's a lot of challenges but then i'm like dude i think for a hundred grand we could create a competitor and like it's not gonna be worth a hundred million dollars you know within the first two or three years but like could we like take a big dent into their businesses probably so when it's that skewed i obviously tend to lean towards building versus buying i think where it's harder is like hey the business is worth like ten million dollars or five million dollars and you're like that's like two years of progress versus not spending the money upfront and like maybe you get there that's where i probably lean much more towards like buying first building it's just like it's it's a lower risk and the deal easier to get done then trying to go and you know buy these these huge things that you know frankly there's only so many people in the world that actually good at doing and what about the focus thing i mean i only do one thing i i i remember your your face sear in my brain last time you asked me this and i was like no i don't do a lot of things to do one thing we provide capital and distribution to businesses i think that's i think that's inspiring i think that sean and i fall in different sides i actually think sean i'm slowly buying into other viewpoints oh shit i'm trying to go over to where you're at i'm trying to focus more sam has hold on a second this is a lie sam you have multiple businesses like you're not just doing one thing although you think of like i don't know airbnb short term rental right like you built that out like that's a project that you were working on right at the same time you were getting hampton off the ground right like like there's all these things where sometimes it's not like okay i'm gonna raise money and go build this big business it could just be like projects but you're you're constantly doing multiple things i come hobbies so i i have a forty hour week thing which is actually so i'm distributing my my own point it's actually podcasting and hampton but so that doesn't exactly make my point but that's like my nine to five and then like i've i've got like a weekend projects is how i consider it so meet sam he's a podcast with a weekend a cast influencer content man producer a content producer i think i think i think we've done a really good job of rebranding that creator just sounds weak for some people changing their x bios right now they're like just deleting creator and putting producer yeah it's just for some reason it's a week that's a week no that's a week word i don't i don't know what it is but we do need a that well just it bolts you in with everybody else that's the problem like it's like oh no i'm i'm a i'm not like them no no that guy's just unemployed there there's a difference you know i'm i'm a different thing i need to have a new name i met a guy who he was one of the early hires at pal and he he essentially like i don't know didn't tell me but like i think he was like basically the coo right or or whatever in the early days and he was like hey one of the cool things about the culture is like you kinda like jointly with your boss made up your title and so his was like risk identifier and destroyer right and it's just like man names do matter like what does that guy do i wanted to work at the company we're like that could be my title and it's very clear inside the organization what the president does it different companies may be different the guy whose title is like risk identifier and destroyer is one hundred percent focused on risk and so same thing like content creator like maybe it's the wrong name and just changed the name and also a sudden everyone's really excited about it cha has a good story about this he says when was at facebook they were trying to hire like you know some phd level you know math and and stats guy and they were like cool like you can come via a data analyst he's like i don't wanna be data down i'm gonna go get my phd instead he's like i don't no i say data data scientist where you have a new field called data science and you're one of the first to be a data scientist know on earth and he's like yeah invented the tag data science and then now it's like you know a whole like prestigious job title in silicon valley is is data scientist is that so true that's that's all that's a hard story to believe is you think that's true yeah i believe i don't know i have no reason not to believe it i did i i love those guys so much on the all in podcast but i was laughing that people are giving them shit about the using scar mu as a measuring stick do guys see this yeah you know what's that like scare scar mu was the white house communications director for yeah yeah yes i think right i mean like the infamous photos have sunglasses on with the finger guns like probably one of the the greatest stint in the white house of all time and so people always tweeted at scar like when you know like emmett sheer was the ceo of open ai like forty eight hours they're like hey how many scar did he last scared me you like calculated like you know point to or whatever and so the all in guys they'd had been saying it for a while and they were like yeah we invented that they they were like twitter give us credit if you're gonna use it and and you love the the internet loves to hate on those guys if you're not like the tech industry so they were like waiting for them to say something and of course they all sort of pulling up like articles and whatever and like man this is like peak internet right is like somebody wants credit for a term that no one's really clear where it came from and then a bunch of people who don't like that person is wants to critique them and yell and scream and like go do a bunch of work to just prove them i was like we are all wasting our time we should just get off the internet like go do productive things but it's kinda like when i when when i say m we get credit for making andrew lieberman and brian johnson famous the longevity guy according to us yeah you're welcome world i actually think that kim kardashian famous because of you guys didn't wanna get to do that early on yes it's like you ever heard of rob beard very well first one to watch her work i think yeah right pop thanks for doing this man we love hanging out with you absolutely i appreciate you guys very much can i plug one thing before i leave yeah yeah we have a job wars called dream startup job dot com used to be called pop crypto jobs it was just crypto we've now expanded to be crypto and everything else we've helped three people a day on average for now over two years get a new job and so there's ten thousand open roles on there if you wanna get a job at your dream startup up you should go to dream startup up job dot com and and check it out alright appreciate it it looks good i i i remember when it used to be i think this is a this is a smart move what we'll figure it out i appreciate you fellas good to see you man yeah that's the pod i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a days off on a goal travel never looking back