Patrick Campbell: The Billion $ Quilting Industry And Using Spy Secrets To Gain A Competitive Edge

alright we are live what's going on man are you what's going on gentlemen so we have patrick campbell what the company was profit well yeah so started originally it was it was something else for first right yeah we called it price intelligently so we did little piece of pricing software morph into pricing software and service a lot of service actually and then started building this metrics tool and all that kind of fun stuff and then recently sold the paddle which is a payments infrastructure product if that and the headline the headline price was two hundred million dollars and you bootstrap the company and i think in a tweet you said you owned i don't know if it was you and your c founder or company owned but like you guys owned almost all of it right yeah we we were pissed up so we went a hundred percent of it and so we yeah but we were pretty generous i think i tweeted about the the fact that we were pretty generous about giving out equity so it wasn't like had a hundred percent we had i think the headline numbers we had thirteen millionaires errors we had like thirty thirty five people made six k's or more and then i think there's like a hundred and twenty people all in people who had worked at the company previously in the current employees you got some sort of consideration out of the deal so and the my i think that it was two over two hundred it was over two hundred technically like we're not public i i don't know it's so weird about these numbers it's like what are you public with what are you not and i have a aboard in a boss now so i have to have to be a little careful not that careful a little careful about all the things i say you do you do seem like you're cultivating that trillion energy that we like to see so i gotta say i'm getting the vibe i'm getting that i'm getting that extreme satisfaction and relief vibe that comes when you sell company sean ask for new how tightly wound i am so yeah that's interesting ask him where you just move to go ahead tell where where did you just move through i moved to puerto rico for all the obvious reasons just sort out there just to be very clear very obvious reasons why i moved here and it's eighty and i'm not a huge fan of the heat but i am like basically recording with a six k camera right now and that's that's that trillion energy where it's like where do you put the money i don't like cars so i got a really cool like dope setup up basically i've been that books shelf needs a little upgrade too if i don't if i must be honest here i feel like you know this was literally like ikea oh i don't have anything behind me like let's throw some books up and kinda go from there so what we'll get there we'll get there so what what exactly did you guys i i i we used you i believe but i think we got i think we used you for free and i was like how did these guys make money what exactly did did you guys do yeah so the the headline kind of positioning is we we basically exist to running and grow subscription businesses automatically and the automatically thing was the thing that like really worked well for us and what i mean by that is like in the perfect vision world you should be able to plug in profit to any subscription business so and to stripe charge biz z whatever you're using for your billing and then automatically like you get all of your metrics for free which is probably what you're referencing and then we reduce your churn your cancellations automatically optimize your pricing automatically and now with the whole paddle deal we like take care of your taxes automatically charge backs all that kind of fun stuff and so yeah i think the the the the big thing for us was when we were this pricing service we wanted to get to something that was more pure software and we're helping a company with their pricing as was about the ipo and we actually discovered they were calculating mr and churn completely wrong which was really fascinating and so we kinda put those two insights together and then started producing this metrics product so you get all of your financial reporting if you're a subscription or saas company and then there were like thirty competitors and it was like all overnight like the space where we thought we were gonna be billionaires for like metro all of a sudden it was like oh my god like everyone and their mother is building a stripe integration and so we did some homework we did some research all that kind of fun stuff and basically discovered that like either this is a terrible business and we should stop doing it because no one is really great at monetizing metrics over the free route which is what we did and i think that's probably when we should have raised money like in in hindsight but long story short that's what grew and we had at the end well it's still going but we had thirty thousand companies using profit basically when we sold and that number is just kinda going up every single day which is great and when you you reached out to us and you were like hey i think you do you listen to the pod is that kinda why you reached out of course yeah absolutely i'm glad to hang out with the twelve year olds from a recent i yeah you you said something which kinda tipped me off you were like i grew up in wisconsin doing hood rat shit had tipped to say i was like oh okay he knows there inside jokes he he knows bit about sometimes you just wanna do hood ratchet shit of course that's why we're getting a ranch built in utah right now everything everything's gonna be great like i guess that's that's the hood rat world there are you are you really you're building the ranch in utah yeah that's the goal so i i grew up in wisconsin right so i grew up like literally milk and cows as a kid and like you know kinda having the let's let's say the sam part lifestyle like my dad has no idea what i do he's is like just confused he thinks i'm being a tax moving to puerto rico like all that kind of fun blue collar sam he's style rich yeah yeah yeah what'd did you say sean that's what yeah yeah so he's like you're just more rich yeah it looks like it is that's what it seems like i do i again i think the difference is as sam living a little like i'm like all in like just still like notes to the grinds stone but yeah i grew up in wisconsin and then after school i i moved to dc i worked in us intelligence and then worked in tech in boston and that's kinda when i got into the to to the business space basically like what i was gonna say is you reached out intelligently because we get a bunch of people literally like hey we'd love to come on and tell my story it's like yeah i'm sure you would who wouldn't wanna come on and and tell their story like yeah i also like to get you know free fame but the the thing you did was you sent us like i don't know six or seven bullet points you're like here's you know here's some stuff i can talk about and then you sent us it i would say like five or six really interesting things so i kinda wanna hop around on those sam did you have a favorite one that you liked from these okay well let's so do you have it in front of you hidden industry he got in front of him so okay yeah well you that's the juice you done he that's the juice one so basically you said i think we have the largest subscription financial database in the world right like you you guys a hundred percent twenty thirty billion dollars of annual recurring revenue flowing through your system which is just a bunch of data that will tell you i bet you there's some things that are like no way they make that much right there's like some surprising niches that that make a lot of money and then there's maybe some trends or benchmarks so to take it where you want it but i think that's one that's gonna be super interesting for i know i i wanna know what i wanna answer so i know people listening will too yeah totally so there's is there's there's a couple of things so one like just to give an example like we we would always like so we study the data in aggregate that's what helps like train our algorithms for like churn reduction and all that kind of fun stuff but then the other really interesting thing is like we published a lot of content on this so a lot of saas companies it's like oh which should our churn be which should this look like so we published a lot of that the other thing i got really interesting was we would basically be kind of like hidden like helper for deal flow for a lot of vcs and we would never like reveal someone's like particular numbers of course not but like what was really fascinating is when kind of the the jungle scout amazon you know kind of play was happening like we had all of a sudden have like all of these apps just break our qa script because every time like someone was growing too fast we would go something must be broken with the metrics right right so that's a little bit of context there's like three or four really fascinating industries especially going into a recession and i think are are really good for like people who wanna fast move into them one one of these industries that's kinda crazy to talk about quilt and crafts quilt and crafts subscription companies are like growing insane what's fascinating is the quilt space if the if you didn't know quilt is it's about a four and a half billion dollar per year industry the average quilt spends about eight to nine thousand dollars per year on like quilt supplies most of that comes not just online but it comes through quilt shops so there's a really interesting local play that we've seen some of these companies use and some more popular apps quilt just means like making a blanket that has like designs on it right for the most part now as a mom a midwest mom who does hardcore quilt like there's a lot of other stuff like our house we didn't have pictures up we had quilt that were hung right of like different designs and all kinds of stuff but yeah every major milestone in my life i got a quilt like i six quilt in puerto rico that are useless to me just given how like warm it is here like wow what's there's there's paint i see what does someone else else's has they had a painting on the wall like no don't need that just put blanket it on the wall quilt yeah that's it's great sound dead thing it's really good sound dead thing but yeah it's really interesting because like that market has gone wild like even like knit like craft that type of stuff and what's really interesting about it is like especially in the subscription space there's a lot of these built in type projects that these companies have started taking advantage of so there's this thing called block of the month club that has been around since cultures have existed you create a block of a quilt to every single you know month basically and it's like a community type thing so there's something there quilt retreats are a huge thing like quilt retreats like i didn't know about that like all of these mostly like middle aged or older women coming together like hanging out and staying up all night talking and like you know quilt so that's one space the craft space knit all that kind of stuff is really interesting another one that's interesting is basically old people but both before you move on before sam yeah do you know stuff about quilt i feel like you were not have knowledge about this stuff no i i don't but i'm looking at i just googled a block of the month club so that that's like a that's like a genre of clubs so that's not like the name of a of a club right and i just just yeah yeah or i don't know a style and i'm looking up what what these are i what these are and i'm looking at the businesses it wouldn't shock me if some of these are doing nine figures so a hundred million dollars plus in subscription revenue based off there's some of their traffic like there's craft there's annie kit clubs dot com do you know anything about these yeah yeah yeah so there's there's there are definitely nine figure companies in the space i'll put it that way and then nine figures a year so a hundred million plus in subscription revenue for sell and they basically like i don't know what differentiates all of i'm just clicking on the ads but they just sell like they send you a block you know what the block is sean like i just one square patch of the quote a square patch and during the holidays my dreams come true right now just like learning you guys right now in people think that i i am in western i grew up in like an urban environment so grew up in like the city so we didn't we weren't exactly quilt but we basically what they do is they they send you a patch like a like a block like a six inch by six inch block and it looks like it's like got like pumpkins and a snowman on it and that's like the holiday version of what do you do with that you stitched that into the other blocks that you've been getting yeah so basically here's here's how quilt gets made i can't believe i'm about to explain this so a quilt gets made by these blocks now sometimes it's just designed sometimes it's got stuff on it like snow and stuff like that so you create these blocks you build a top so let's say you want like a king size bed it's just the top so it's just one layer of fabric what you do is you take it to a quilt shop and then you go to the quilt shop and that quilt shop is gonna charge you per inch to put a back and then a batting which is like the stuff that makes it kind of a blanket and then they like put a design in there as they like put those layers together and then you have a quilt right and then some hardcore moms like my mom has her own basically quilt machine it's like an eight foot machine to basically make all of these quilt out so yeah it's and this is the thing your mom's is a bad ninety nine percent of them are on like facebook they're all like they're they're really target which is really fascinating and like the youtube content that's come out of like the quote community is pretty wild as well and yeah there's there's this one in missouri i can't remember exactly but it was like this town that was like basically you know on its last legs this woman her you know basically her son started doing youtube videos where she would just explain how to do quilt stuff it's created it basically revitalize the town like because everyone comes on buses to come visit the town and go to the quilt shop and all that kind of fun stuff and the quilt shows quilt and craft shows are pretty fascinating this is all my childhood coming out because i got dragged to use bookstores and quilt shops basically and the quilt shows are wild like they'll just be famous quilt on stage with a camera like doing quilt stuff like basically which is just kind of a fascinating world and a lot of money in it that's like kind of like old school meaning like there's a couple of really big players that kinda sell everything and there's all these new school folks coming in and kinda lobbying off different segments which be new school company that i i would look at so the one i was just describing these moms while you're looking at that up these moms these quilt are not using instagram a lot it looks like i'm like looking up quilt on instagram and groups real heavy there's not a ton of pages on instagram that are doing quilt but it's like an opportunity by the way to like build big quilt pages on instagram they are facebook groups they're the facebook group i've seen i saw one just researching w here i'm looking at tons of highly engaged quilt facebook groups well it's also interesting like you'll even in boston like there'll be these little like meetups ups so the younger community they're they're kinda going through knit into like quilt because it's like oh you get to build something the designs are a lot more modern and all that kind of fun stuff but yeah it's an interesting interesting world a missouri star quilt company is the one that i was referencing the youtube kind of kind of world how big is that i don't know their revenue individually i don't think they have a subscription sean have you heard of hallmark you know hallmark cards of course so paper used to own like fifty hallmark stores really i was like how is these are these people so rich and they're like oh we now they own like a hundred hallmarks so hallmark is an interesting company related to this and i'm everything i'm saying is is off the top of my off memory so i may be wrong but they hallmark is a privately owned business it's owned by a family and i think it's one of the largest privately owned companies in the world in america and they do five billion dollars a year in revenue and i think that they make money in two ways they have these stores that are franchises and they just sell cards so hallmark just sells cards and then the other thing that's kind weird is they own hallmark media which is a hallmark tv station channel yeah yeah where they make like it's a joke it's like a genre hallmark movies which is like a sap movies that moms like but i wouldn't be surprised if they own like if if they're just like you know behind the scenes on in the quilt game just calling the shots you know what i mean they're they're deep in the underground quilt game yeah big they're the yeah it just there's only one one i fear it's big quilt after us stop laughing about this so it's those companies and they're huge some of the big originals they're huge this this hobby i think has legs for a couple reasons one is it has a bunch of factors that individually are strong characters of like you know potentially good businesses but when you stack them it becomes even more valuable so it's like this is a stacking of trends so you have the trend of diy and crafts at home right then you have the trend of oddly satisfying which is you've seen these videos of people cutting sand or like asm stuff like this which is like there's a therapeutic benefit to doing these things like these repetitive tedious clean straight lines you know stuff with your hands that you can do that has like a a tactile feel to it then you add on community and it's like oh yeah people get together and they do this together okay so now this is an excuse it's like you know guys getting together play poker or something like that it's like yeah yeah we don't all really you know we're not trying to be the best poker player but it's just an excuse to sit around and bullshit and so you start stacking these on top of each other then it's like nostalgia because people are making quilt out of like their kids clothes and stuff like that because you know they don't want else yeah what do i do with these old stuff and then all it becomes this like this like memory in this heir room and i'm like you know i have a a blanket that my grandma made before she passed away and it's like that means something to our family because she made it right it's like a memory of her so you stack all these things on top of each other and now you have this like you know sort of like this you know long island iced tea of a business where you stacked all these different you know things into one cocktail and it's it's just a strong you out of a bitch additionally i think pat maybe you could kinda tell me if this is true or not but for my experience most people in silicon valley and young people they're like we're gonna make this app or this widget for like millennials or gen z in reality every business that i know of personally that are the majority of my friends who own businesses that sell stuff to women in middle america between the ages of thirty and sixty hands down has the highest loyalty and engagement and lowest amount of churn is that accurate other than businesses i'm talking about a group of consumers yeah so normally if you're selling to normally older audiences from a consumer perspective retain at a higher rate mainly because of the implications that you're already alluding to it's they're they're less finicky like they're harder to convert sometimes because of that loyalty but once they're in they've like made a decision and then they're are they're sticking it out for quite some time and this is kind of like as a lesson like i can tell you anytime there is a more premium product or a more niche audience you just have better churn like every single time so like butcher box started with the you know whole kind of paleo crowd a very niche it was very premium in terms of price point worked out really well whoop started very high they were like we're athletes and then all these people who were like i wanna be an athlete too and they're charging thirty bucks a month right that that's always what i recommend is if you're starting something especially if you're bootstrapping start high and then come down it's a lot easier than it is to like start really cheap and then go back up unless you're running a freemium model which is a very different model to run sean have you ever been doing have you been doing apple b's lately oh hell yeah chili an apple b's baby have you really been doing apple piece yes i have that's hilarious so do you know how their whole stick is like even though it's a chain it like they they put like the neighborhood baseball team on the wall which who knows that it's they're actually from that neighborhood like you know whenever you go there they make it feel like that well i had a friend that worked on the advertising part of of apple beans and one time we had to go there and like order everything on the menu and drink and eat it all it was horrible but i was like tony this food is like quite bad like this is horrible i don't like i don't i don't think you're gonna be able to able to make this cool like you know what you're telling me like a we it was like a nuclear green like lime made like i was like dude this is horrible i wanna drink this shit this is awful or like one time i thought cheese tastes like beans and the beans taste like cheese yeah well they they sent over something i'm like i don't know what this is it's so we dipped in there and it was icing like it was like a side of icing and i was like dude this is horrible why do people like this he's like well it's mostly middle america and they call i believe that they called their ideal customer a gym bob which is someone who is in their fifties sixties and seventies and has a little bit of money but once they continue going there because feels like it's the last like who off for the neighborhood and they're supporting their neighborhood and they're willing to put up with the crappy food because it somehow feels like their way of life is under attack and this is like the last like thing that represents their neighborhood even though it's some huge natural world is changing so much and this is all this is the one staple that like you walk in and it feels exactly the same as it did when you were fourteen right what what you are you gonna say i literally wrote this last night so i'm i'm reading a slack message last night at twelve thirty five am so right after midnight i just slack this to myself i i wrote if you're selling a cool thing to a cool person you're playing the game wrong that is hard mode and this is all of you know you you meet most people in d most people in silicon valley it's like they're they are in their twenties they're cool and new in the world and they're selling to cool and new people in la in new york and san francisco and they're like yeah of course like you know i'm gonna create this new cool thing and i'm selling to new cool people and what you wanna do is you wanna sell simple things to simple people and so and i had a a buddy tell me this with with project i was working on he goes he goes okay so what's your main like sales channels i was like facebook ads he goes okay so that means your customer at scale is an overweight overworked mom in texas and he's like so i look at your website and i don't see anything that like appeals to her like it doesn't have to look like her at least to look like how she wants to look and and it's it basically was like you know if you can't sell to an overweight overworked mom in texas like you can't scale like and and i was like what the hell like okay okay but you don't even know any overweight overworked mom access to you i used to live in houston that that turned out to be valuable it's just like you were saying like you know my mom used to drag me probably kicking and screaming to these quilt shows and now that you're an entrepreneur you're like oh quilt niche tell me more right like yeah it's like we flip you know the thing we used to resist now we we you know wanna wanna go go for and so it's the same thing like growing up in texas i like man and i just thought everything cool was in new york san francisco and la and i just wanted to go there but now that i'm i'm like dude i wanna sell these like f millennials who are like you know you know trying to do like barry detox like i want to sell you know something to a mom in texas because if i could do that that's a licensed to print money and like if you go look at you know the best selling car last i don't know thirty years is is the ford f one fifty it's a you know it's a pickup truck that sells for for thirty six thousand dollars you go around san francisco you won't see one right you you you know you would think the best selling car in america is the tesla model x you know and it's like that's just not the case because you're in you're in a bubble and so you know and i think the gym bob you know overweight mom in texas the you know the the other one is you know the enterprise sales one is like you know you're selling to bob the mid level manager or the you senior manager who's you know got a little bit of a belly and he's losing his hair like that's who you're selling to and you gotta like can you nail that sale because if you can you could build a very very big business and i mean that like the most loving way possible which is basically just saying to most entrepreneurs and most kinda young people like get out of your bubble but you end up not chasing fad like there's a lot of fad like business built on built on fad right and and those are great businesses right like we hear about them all the time the guy who what was it the the teeth like i can't remember like the the the hill teeth you remember this at gas stations like apparently like twenty million dollar like business right like the snug right huge fad you know hundreds of millions of dollars i believe in revenue but like something i'm quilt has been around forever it's not sexy right but the targeting gets really interesting and like some of the other things right like you guys talk about this a lot where it's like services business you know lawn care hvac all these other things end up being like stuff that sticks around for a long time and you know through the businesses that you don't really hear of and there's a lot of opportunity in terms of roll up or like flipping the model that you know was basically being used by the folks that are the incumbent so what are other or if you're if you're gonna innovate innovate on just one thing so it's like oh quilt thing people love but there's not a lot of instagram theme pages and communities on instagram okay that's like it's just like i can do one new thing on top of nine old time you know nine things that are gonna be the same and that's like a new right sam did the news but he did it through email instead of through you know different printed papers right and instead of like one new thing and then he didn't need to change everything else everything else could stay the same still because the human needs stay the same oh yeah sorry you're doing a long ass time on quilt but talking about quilt tubing baby it's great yeah what what else you got what are some other kinda of niches in like three other spaces happy to go deeper trades roll ups plumbing companies hvac companies electrician companies there's a lot of that stuff happening it's not like machine shops or those types of things where it's just like hard to innovate it's like skilled enough that there's a niche and there's like a moat but it's not skilled enough that you can't roll it up a lot of these guys and gals are looking for basically a way to retire and it's kind of like accountant you know shops like they don't get more than 1x x max right in terms of their business basically things to sell to kids of old people it's the way to put what does that what does that mean i don't know yeah i saw you wrote that that prey i'm baby boomer kid guilt yeah yeah it's so a really good example it's not a huge company because it's a one man shop out of boston is nano it's basically a i i don't know if you email or you post it on instagram and then it automatically sends a postcard to your nana or to you know whomever you wanna send it to so there's some really interesting things that are happening there where like you have high disposable income in a certain group low amount of time that wants to be spent necessarily with like you know their parents or their grandparents depending on you know the the personality and as basically the trend that's happening is there's a huge portion of population that are aging so you're seeing like the multiples on things like old folks homes or hospice care actually increasing pretty substantially which is kinda crazy and then there's there's there's gotta be more technology plays i don't have like a giant technology play there i just have seen like a number of people like start to build on that particular trend and then the last one which i think is really interesting is death that sounded terrible that i found that's interesting no i'm not that that's scary but there are four or maybe five companies that basically own everything in the literal last mile of your life coffin the the funeral service homes everything that's being sold in the funeral service homes even like how the memories and and kind of like that last part looks there are some businesses that have tried but because of like the five people kind of owning everything and multi billion dollar companies what's the biggest ones essentially happened i don't have the names in front of i know someone tried five years ago guy named dave ba and boston basically tried to start a like memory company where basically you would load up memories essentially and then all of a sudden you would get that information back via alexa so you could be like oh alexa would tell me about my grandpa or something like that and what happened like six years ago or something with him in an adventure but he was the one telling me that like basically he would go visit you know these companies like hey maybe i could sell to these companies and they're all like buttoned up suits you know all that kind of fun stuff and so that's a space that i think given the aging population there's probably something there that that makes sense as well gotcha okay let's let's switch gears real quick you had said something else which was let's do some quick hits okay so let's try to do these give me the kind of the quick quick jab on these you said i used nsa learnings to do competitive intelligence what the hell are you talking about yeah yeah yeah so i my first job at a school i at nsa so i an intel analyst best way to put it into that i was like jack runs desk job none of the cool stuff i did have weapons and defensive driving training which is kinda cool the defensive driving training is like so much more useful in the weapons training in my real life but what's really interesting about it is like so it's basically was the best career start in like first principles thinking and like thinking about like a target and so i had a competitive intel program basically at profit it was just me running it where i had every quarter i had stat and it's kinda like what you guys have talked about before but like a little bit deeper so what i did is i had shadow lists of like are each competitor even our partners like customers and i would send like shadow and p surveys you know product research surveys these types of things and the thing that people miss on competitive intel is like it has to be done over time and this is something that like they teach you when you're going after a target on the inside which is like i need to understand not just a point i need to understand like multiple points in order to kinda create a profile basically and how does you deal did that mps stuff now he said he sent a fake mps i straight percent surveys to their customer sent surveys to their and walk me through that how do you get through all all your research methodologies the this is crazy fascinating yeah yeah so there's two there's two main sources of information there's mole and then mass data mole are like qualitative like almost like customer development product conversations these are former employees these are you know customers i know that they're friendly to me they're not gonna switch because of whatever but i can like talk to them okay was pause that former employees you got you find okay this person used to work here what what happens what is the what is the guy i do this all the time present this yeah me and sam we're talking about this on the pod once but totally so i like you made him at a conference oh it it looked like on twitter that didn't end well they weren't like after four long wonderful years at so and so i've now moved on but it was like i'm now over here right they took out the competitor name that's someone i wanna like like a better phrase target and have a conversation with and be like hey man how's everything going right like that type of a thing and again you're not gonna get a a vast amount of information but again it's about collecting different points right and then i've talked to an investor and then i've have talked to an investor who's thinking of investing company and then i've talked to like some customers who are officially churning from the product and all of a sudden i can start putting this together but the the more fascinating stuff and and that's color right like that's color that kind of guides your analysis because you as an analyst what you're trying to do is you're trying to predict what's gonna happen or based on some sort of stimulus what they're going to do right so if all of a sudden something comes in or there's a feature that's launched or some sort of messaging or marketing thing that happens what are they going to do and that's gonna help you respond to whatever they're going to do right and prepare for it right so that was really interesting because you almost get like feel from those types of people like oh turns out like there's an exodus a lot of people are leaving that's great let's step on the gas here but the real kind secret sauce is what you know sam started asking about which was there are many lists of customers that you can find if they have some sort of a snippet obviously built with clear bit all those types of things right that's one everyone likes to talk about their customers right so they have case studies that's two everyone likes to put the logos on their website that's three right and so you're looking at social you're looking at built with you're looking at all these logos and then i'm like well who's the main customer right i can go find all those email addresses right and you're not looking for like oh my god i have ten thousand people because most of these people don't have ten thousand customers right but we were looking for is enough that then i'm gonna start sending on in every three month basis a survey or every other month i'm gonna send an n mps survey and then i'm gonna send for what like domain are you see the survey from like yeah like give your name plus feedback like feedback dot com or something or what there's a couple i don't wanna go tv but like like probably like visitation is already fried on this so like so go ahead let's say you're let let let's say you're trying to let's say you're creating a hubspot competitor and you wanna get hubspot mps information do you send an email that it's like hub back feedback dot com or like get hubspot feedback dot com or something like that i wouldn't go that far because if someone finds that out like it looks real bad right but what i would and i'm sure people are gonna think everything i'm saying is really bad but like whatever and so what i would do is i do more like marketing software research dot com or something to that effect and then the way that i position it is hey so and so you've been identified as a user of hubspot i would love thirty seconds of your time to understand what you love and what you don't love right and the thirty seconds there thirty to sixty seconds there is really important we've sent our pricing software is fed through surveys we've sent like probably ten million surveys at this point if you're not compensating someone on an individual basis the raffle thing doesn't work it's i mean it will work with some people but most people doesn't work but you if you're not compensating your thirty to sixty seconds i'll send a survey that max five questions right mps standard question here's five features what's the most appreciate most preferred feature of that list same list what's the least preferred right so three questions maybe i'll throw in anything else you wanna tell us about hubspot right and then all of a sudden i have like a picture and then i'm gonna send oh it's interesting we're thinking about building this thing they're thinking about building that thing like let's do something next next quarter or next month but the same survey can be sent multiple different times but the important thing here is you're building a timeline right because now all of a sudden i can see these trends and what was really interesting and the thing that i told you guys about was not only so first you should never show this information to your product team it is the worst information like we've seen like competitive based product teams are really bad like it just doesn't work but i have data and i'm happy to share it that competitive based marketing teams like teams that it's correlated of course it's not causal but those folks who have competitive programs typically have much better retention and lower c sorry because they just understand what are you talking about what basically he saying what in explaining is what he's saying is you you learned this stuff if you go tell the product team hey here's here's what they said they want or here's what you should build screw them up they screws them up they don't they don't build the right stuff but if you go be customer team and you say here's what's here's what pain points were most important to or here's what benefits were most important to them or here's what here's how they rank these guys versus us the marketing teams if you have that competitive intel as part of your process a marketing people perform better then a marketing team without that perfect example real world example we start hearing this is the early days of the metrics product we realize getting accuracy for metrics is actually incredibly difficult because it's not like marketing metrics that can be like five percent off like financial metrics if you tell me of this much money that's supposed to be in my bank account i'm making decisions based on that it has to be ninety nine point and if not a hundred right so we start feeling this just as a product team all of a sudden we start hearing from some of my like my my molds if you will and they don't know that they were these people just to be clear it's not like i turned them and they're like you know there's drops and everything like that but all start hearing like oh yeah we're using it the accuracy sucks right so all a sudden we start hearing this totality of information all a sudden that is our core marketing strategy every single time comparison pages we didn't do that many of them but every single comparison pages is number one thing all of our ads like competitive ads that's what they were and then over time all of a sudden that became their pages right because they're reacting to us rather than us reacting them because we found the snippet that makes the most sense and the the most like aggressive thing if this doesn't sound aggressive enough is so i have all this date i have all this information i've collected it and i've synthesized it with i know by the do keep that like a spreadsheet or like a notion and you're making and you're writing like narrative formats it depends on i'm using it right so the data is just tracking over time right so i i can send you like some slides or something like that so i some slides that like i put together for when we were gonna go raise money for the first time as well because it's it's just really good data in general one thing i have is is basically spreadsheets that has a lot of this information especially the qualitative and then the other thing that i build off of this are red team docs i don't know if you guys know what those are but basically like every thought i've had or every thought that i learned from this data because this data like customer data on market data is probably ten x more important but this is like some interesting data that's easy to talk about in a podcast but red team docs is when i look at all this data it's like what are the things that kill us every single thought that i've had that could like kill us or whole hurt us goes into a doc some of those docs get built out oh someone accuses me of x someone says this on twitter and then it it basically at minimum has here the steps that we're gonna take so that when that thing happens all of a sudden we have a head start on the on the little critical piece of the thinking but to make a long story short the the thing that i referenced with you guys is i would have like these are all funded competitors so they would try to go raise money all i would have their the people they were trying to raise money from come to me like not tell me that they were trying raise money but it's obvious because they invest in the space it's not the associate it's like the partner coming like all that kind of stuff some of them would straight up tell me like hey we're thinking of investing and so and so what do you think but what i would do then is i would show them these slides and i would just basically be like here's all the information on on us and and the person that you're thinking of investing and i wouldn't say that unless they were up upfront about it and what it i i know for one we we killed one of the rounds that someone was trying to raise like i can tell you that definitively because one like okay i'm gonna invest in someone going against this psycho who like has all this information right like that's pretty scary thing and then two like all of our numbers are better because i you know we just ended up you know doing really well at certain and certain number of things right and so that that i think is again it's a program that i think that you should have at least at a bare minimum from a marketing and go to market perspective if you have a market that becomes really competitive if you're in like the blue ocean as they say like it's probably a waste of time but it's just something where our ocean got red real quick i think the light tell me what you think it right now i think and i'm very good at research and i'm very good at doing what i do which is like doing the exact same thing of finding mole getting intel reverse engineering you have said of i think i'm in a nine out of ten you have said some some things to me that i realized that there's another couple levels that i can go to improve it's pretty magical that the that that's pretty amazing yeah well then keep in mind like i have all this market data right so that was interesting too because all of a sudden i can understand like so for example covid hit again i can't look at anyone's accounts and we're very very very very like strict about that but i can see oh this sector that has fifty plus accounts which is our our terms this sector is tanking this sector is taking off i can change my marketing almost instantly right when you have some competitive intel especially on segments like i knew the segments that our competitors are going after and knew the segments we were going after it just helps feed the wheel and when you're feeding the wheel and you're getting that phd in your business which i think is really important if you're if you're going all in like all of a sudden it's like now a lot of the decisions like we don't have to think about because it's like we know what's happening we know what strings being pulled let's react to it let's respond to it and kinda go from there how much of your time is spent on that are sorry go well now it's a best way possible it's a system now so it's a system so i don't spend that much time over i just get the collect right and it's just documentation right so for example i have names like i know i have i have six names that i can tell you of users of a competitor of ours i see them pretty regularly especially since events are back i'm friends with a couple of them right and i'm not like i i'm not hiding the fact like hey how's it going with competitor a right like i'm not hiding it right like in that and that's the thing that like there's a point here where i i think you're you're kinda of being an asshole like in in your you know being like con diving and then there's a point where you're just like being smart and collecting data and i try to stay like obviously on that part of of the divide if that makes sense do you have turning would you ever turn that a business yes yeah being i think you could create a really good business around collecting n mps data honestly g two crab reviews that's where there's a ton of like data like i would love someone should create this because it would just do my job which is great quarterly report kinda like four this is the thing forrest reports i think there's is also like a market to like blow that whole business up give me like quarterly reports instead of these reports where you called a hundred people a quarterly report on the same company or on the same industry that has here the reviews the new reviews is positive of a competitor hear the bad reviews negative of a competitor here's mps data all that kind of fun stuff and you know again you have to be careful on how much you use this information like you you're using it to build like a profile you're not using it to like immediately react to and that's mistake a lot of people make sean and i had we brainstorm this a lot and we were talking about how we both use glass door views because even though like glass doors is typically like either fake or incredibly happy employees or like disgruntled employees there's not really a middle but like you could still yeah get a lot of interesting information from there and you get information from like linkedin like they'll say like you i manage a pipeline of a ten million dollar a year business and like oh okay thanks for telling me and like we would like we we we brainstorm from this idea of this business where we i think we call it like i spy or something or like it involved like spying on like many people in a in a particular industry and just sending you an email because you can use like facebook ads manager and be like oh wow these guys just made us switch they are now targeting older women as opposed to younger women and we called it like spy something and it's kinda funny you work for the nsa you you you you don't you are the spy that we were talking about so like it is kind of interesting i do think actually a business could be built doing this i can find this client in full have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform so it shares its data every application every team can stay aligned no out of sync spreadsheets are doing databases hubspot grow better i think the problem is is that so i've been talking about customer development customer research because you should do all of this for your customers that's what you first start with rather than your competitors a competitors stuff sounds sex here right but i think that like i used to talk when i give talks of conferences or like events all about customer development fifteen percent of people like care and then even when you give them like the everyone cares everyone tweets the tweet oh yeah you should talk to your customers right fifteen percent of people actually do the work and then when you actually take care of the work for them and just give them the data and this is the the one risk of this type of a business i'm sure there's a big business in it but then they like don't know what to do with it right and so all of a sudden it's like okay you're you're kind of giving people information which that's probably fine because it's a vitamin then like they don't they they like that they have it right but then actually implementing on stuff like they probably don't do it and that means like i don't know if you if you get a thirty six month customer like i'll take it right like they don't need to be sixty months necessarily for for you to build a big business right you're doing one other thing that i find fascinating actually actually well there's you said to your i'll start with the the less class anyone you said you're buying a shit ton of debt for pennies on the dollar and gonna forgive it so what's what's actually going on there everyone wants to be mister beast on a long enough timeline everyone wants to be mister beast that's what it feel life theory like it no so like here's the thing i i'm probably going to reinvest everything that i got into this into like a business did you say how much how much should you make from the sale trying i i kinda work with a lot of people so i'm trying not to to to be super over or under nine figures i'm not gonna say what i got let's just put it that way but i asked stupid it i i was i asked you if it was over under a hundred million dollars and it took you a minute to think about it so what i'm going to assume is it it's that number give or take thirty percent give or take thirty percent yeah let's just let's but like again part of its stock it's not all cash like there's a lot of different factors here that we i i don't want to get into but i am i'm going to i'm fine right now like i'm gonna do fine that if that makes sense so but i wanna reinvest it because like again i'm i'm not a car guy i'm not like and again i've had it for like two months i went from like this is a fun fact i did the whole dave ramsey don't have any debt pay off the house as soon as possible thing so in january i twenty thousand dollars in my bank account and a pay off house like that was it and then this happened so i haven't adjusted to it is what i'm trying to say so like this might change in like six months but i i wanna like you know i wanna go all out and and go all out not in a way of like you know like fancy cars and stuff like that but like in stuff that's really interesting and gets me on the quickest path to learning and one of the reasons for the debt thing and also the i don't know if you're gonna bring up the other one but like the debt thing was this the debt it's just crazy like it's insane right it's it's it's insane how much debt there is how that debt is purchased i don't understand it and this is one of the ways that i can like really understand it and also do some good in the world where it's like i can buy a bunch of debt for pennies on the dollar i can how that system works how debt collectors work how the debt collector sells to another debt collector and then also like obviously you forget make it simple what what what debt have you bought what what how are you buying debt what bet debt are buying are you buying what are you doing with and yeah yeah i i have not actually purchased the debt yet right i am basically exploring right now i just put some feel out because that's the other thing at does market who did you reach out to to see if you can acquire some debt see see that's the interesting part that's about to was about to bring up it's so shadowy that like there's not like a website that's like we buy all the debt and then sell the debt and all that kind of stuff there's nothing so i have a buddy i think he's i don't know if he's cool with me saying his name but he used to he runs a really cool subscription conference now but he used to do this and i was asking him he was on like the the board of one of these debt agent like associations like a business association and i was like hey man isn't it scam and he's explaining to me that like in that market there's like twenty percent of the market that's like very bad like those are the ones you hear all the stories about threatening people the other part of the market like he was in this he was like you just call people and be like hey like what can you do right because he bought it for pennies on the dollar so he's like give me thirty percent great like he made money they get it done all that and this is like someone that market this is like someone who owes two thousand dollars because they got an x ray or took an ambulance or yeah i don't know whatever else do you have credit card debt for right yeah and and the other thing is the reason the reason this is interesting and this is like to kinda speak a little bit more like how i'm thinking is like i don't wanna build a quilt company although it it'd be fascinating don't get me wrong like i the stuff palmer luck is doing in defense i'm all all about it the stuff that like aaron schwartz did before his passing like in terms of opening up databases that were that were behind gateways but supposed to be free making him free like that's the type of stuff i wanna do and like if you look at debt money and politics and defense those are three giant areas where like there's huge things holding us back cost plus pricing and defense is holding us back the palmer is working on it debt there's just a so much debt most of its student or not most of it but a lot of its student debt and so like there's something interesting there of like how can you make money but also like not be a jerk right and also like you know take that burden off people's plates and then politics money in politics there's there's something there because i don't think we're just gonna magically have you know people wake up and be like let's vote against having this much money in politics so like what's the world look like where you accelerate the money in politics and hopefully break some of the log jams and kinda go from there so that's that's those are the three things i really think about in terms of like post paddle life if that makes sense and sam you wanna do anything on those otherwise there's one other yeah well before we i wanna get this last one this is interesting but i i do wanna do a quick i have a quick question which is you you're thirty two right thirty three how old do you yeah thirty thirty three yeah gen thirty four in a couple months so you're thirty three thirty four you just made a huge sum of money have you done the math to when you become a billionaire i'm sure you have and how does it feel to have such a huge sum at such a young age i mean that's pretty wild right here's the thing i learned and some of your guests so actually friend of the show her mo i talked to him a couple weeks ago and what i told him and he kind of was like yeah exactly back was it amplifies the worse in you and the best in you you're just the same person right so like i thought when i was gonna get money i was gonna like oh i'm gonna be healthier because i can like afford you know someone to yell at me about eating it's like no like now i can afford to go to the terrible places all the time right and i you know i could afford that before but like i think it's one of those things where i'm a big believer something i talk a lot about and i don't know if this is interesting but like teddy roosevelt of all people wrote this speech called the strenuous life and is basically his concept and i think it's better our speech everyone references man in the arena i think man and shit versus strenuous life he basically said in a modern par like if you've been given something like whether it's you know middle class life upper class life whatever it is if if you've had an exit even though you worked for it right whatever like your duty is to read like go be strenuous again right your duty is to go crazy and like you know go deeper make big swings right and that's why i'm talking about like i wanna go and quilt because it's like yeah there's a money grab there i think it's great like i wanna like fix democracy i wanna like have defense i wanna fix that like i wanna try and fix those types of things because i think like for every person doing that like you obviously have tons of people are digging ditch dishes who have no ability to like you know they're leading a strenuous slice kinda have to so yeah i'm and i know that sounds like i don't know people have judge that answer like in multiple different ways but like i'm having fun but i'm also like all in right like i'm trying to go and it's part of the reason we went to paddle i was like i didn't wanna like hand over the keys because i wasn't done yet i wanna see what a company going through a public offering like looks like like i wanna see that so that i i can decide do i like that do i wanna go big next or do i wanna do more like small shit so that's kinda what what what i'm thinking about if that makes sense when you were younger were you kind of like highly competitive at anything or like you know you between ages i don't know twelve to eighteen do if you look back now if you were like a a researcher just getting to observe you behind the glass panel would you have seen anything in the way you behaved that would lead you to think oh this guy gonna have like a really interesting career in life or would you looked like in you know an average teenager at that time yeah so i had a not i don't know how sam would look at this i i had like a a midwest child let's say a bad midwest childhood which is like the things that happened to me like would clearly be abused today but maybe back then like they were like okay and so so there was that and i think that like that makes me incredibly insecure human being like i'm i'm incredibly insecure about like most things but what i kinda learned and i don't know if there's just trial and error but i had some good like mentors in life is like instead of like taking that and go become you know a dead like channel it right like use that anxiety like a channel it the one thing in answer to your question fun fact i am a national champion debate so i i did speech and forensics in in tracy i make the joke john yeah john go for you what's it you would you could take yourself a master twelve year old twelve year olds i love it yeah so i i did the way to this this segment i don't know if you heard this we did this segment on here i sent serve these three patterns people who are amazing and debate go on to do amazing in business people who are amazing gamers can go on to do amazing and yeah pope poker was maybe my other one but those three are like not you wouldn't associate that with success in the business world but they have like this i just keep seeing it over and over and over again well so you know what it is so i i did so i like i was doing football and like wrestling and all that stuff i i had to have foot surgeries for whatever some reason and basically i was like oh i can't i can't do wrestling that season so i went and started doing what's called forensics when you're in high school and then i was like oh you can get scholarships so i went to the school went to on scholarship to to do this and it was one of the best schools in the country for it it's bradley university like lovely school but like as the northwestern kids would make fun of us in illinois like you get a public school education at a private school price basically and unless you're on scholarship that type of thing and if you think about it so what i was doing is at least in college for forty hours a week four years i was s sizing information and structuring arguments and getting to root cause right which are these things that we always talk about i never wanted to go into business i my dad still thinks i should be a doctor i was gonna go into law law but you know more people were graduating you know in law school than actual vehicle jobs when i graduated so long story short it was one of those things where i was like you know i can s information really quickly right and and that's like like i talk a little faster and all this other stuff and so i think that's that's helped me a lot because literally our marketing strategy in the early days was i just write blog posts and i can write them pretty quickly and they're relatively deep they're not all gems but you know it's one of those things that that definitely helped me and i use it i probably use it every day you wanna go to the last one sean this is the the most interesting one you're doing you're also doing a hostile takeover be traded person so i saw this is this guy i i don't know how you say it i only like the background k mike m is this hack handle and so there's this guy yeah yeah you can't tell the story what what who's is this guy what did he do with and what the heck are you doing okay so again quickest path to learning that's i think that's really important for like entrepreneurs executives in general mike mer it like thirteen years ago two thousand and eight something like that he became the first publicly traded person so he sold shares in himself he's there's an interface the the the website is a little buggy sometimes where there's interface he sold shares he gets the money but then what he does is he gets to choose to put votes up and then the people who bought shares vote their shares and he doesn't do little stuff like he does little stuff like what color glasses should i get so lot of the things we probably don't wanna make decisions on ourselves which is really interesting hack but he also what he'll do is he goes and he'll put should i move in with my girlfriend he puts set up for a vote the debate is fascinating because some of them are his friends and his family and then there's just rand in connecticut being like i've known mike for like a long times through the project i don't think this makes sense he said this like three years ago blah blah blah it's fascinating so i knew about this girlfriend what's url again say that spell it out k mike m k m i k e y m dot com and so i i got a little money and i was like i've i don't know what it's like to like do a takeover of a company right and this is when elon musk was like doing his stuff with twitter and so long story short i was like oh this could be fascinating one because there's like i don't know how people react when this stuff happens and so he put an auction up for additional shares and this is what he does every so often when he needs some cash he'll actually put an auction up and people can buy presumably if it's a dutch option under the share price right and i did like by the way like do get anything as a shareholder you there's no dividends there's no like nothing like that tell your shares if people buys like shares so like i put my shares up and get money like actually get cash right dude look at sean go to the website i'm so he he just says a thing so look it let me give you an example it's called the finger holders contract gig i guess finger holders is the name of the company but the short the tl is should i take a short term gig contract coordinating the development of a community around the launch of an n g project called finger hole finger holders shouldn't take a job yeah and then it goes the whole background of like why i'm interested in this why do i wanna do this what are the contract details how much they're gonna pay me what's the proposal and then there's three hundred i think there's like a crazy amount of comments that says he's like pros working on a project sounds fun cons n entities are dive the divisive and it may alienate some of your shareholders and there's like incredibly thoughtful discussion on why he's totally leadership what so listen to this so i sneak i start buying shares and i start researching people who haven't been active because you can see the last time they like logged in and stuff because i wanna start contacting them he launches this auction well about two thousand shares and i know that most votes there's only about five thousand chairs that are voting so i was like cool if i get two thousand chairs which is like ten eleven percent of the entire thing and then i i did a sneaky way of doing the auction which we can get into if it's interesting but anyways so i get the shares and then i go speak at his shareholder meeting he has a how much did you pay for the two thousand shares i was like thirteen grand and so so his market cap is only like as as well it's not it's hundred thirty thousand everyone gets in yeah so right now he's got i think sixteen thousand shares or something that have been sold in the share price i haven't checked today but there's a share price it goes up and down based on like purchases and stuff but he's worth it's in the six figure range i think ballpark i'd think so yeah yeah so if you owned all the shares theoretically that's the value but then the other thing is the community makes it interesting so i go speak at the shareholder conference and i go hey and it's on youtube and i say listen i'm doing a hostile takeover of mike here's why like i think the project's undervalued you guys voted to like make him not go on social media like that doesn't make sense like in order to get more people he has to like do this blah i think it and then all the questions are like well what about like is this good for mike because there's a lot of his friends like his actual person friends god and i was like listen i think what's good for what's good for the share price is good for mike and vice versa and i talk like you talk about it's like a half hour interview i did and and then everyone and then there's all these people especially the people who don't know them who are like i think patrick i think the takeover over is good for the project i think it's this you through lu five hundred to a thousand more shares roughly to control the vote you thought no no i already i already had i got nineteen hundred and thirty out of the auction right right but you said each vote has about five thousand and you just need yeah you just need fifty never it's never one sided it's never one side so like if if it's twenty five hundred already can swing whatever vote and and what's funny is i'm texting him and i'm like hey man just so you know here are my intentions like hey it's like a little it's a little takeover right that that that's cool like trading though no no i didn't i don't like when he shares elon goes and talks to par and he's like hey look i'm doing this and here's what i wanna do with twitter and also there's kinda nothing you could do about it but i'm gonna inform you because that just seems like you know the a standard the right thing process here yeah what does what is what obligation does this guy have to follow what you say like we know what if he just says a fuck off i'm done with this project and i mean he could shut the project down i don't know like so first before i started doing this i started tweeting to him about what happens if there's a hostile takeover elon musk seems interesting right because i wanted to see like is this like it's is this gonna be a good investment probably not but like i'm learning i i can't tell you how much i'm learning right because all of a sudden it's like oh interesting shareholder mate they responded to this and these aren't like the investors that i want to be working with on the rest of my life but it's really fascinating he is never for to my knowledge in thirteen years gone against what a vote has said but he could it's all in good faith he could i mean there's no yeah there's no like oh my god i i can sue him or anything anymore also he he gets to choose what he puts up for vote so if he's like you know i just wanna move on my girlfriend i don't have to put it up for a vote but there has been some talk of you get to burn some of your shares in order to put a vote up for a vote which is fascinating it's he's been covered by wired atlantic all kinds of stuff it's and it was in a lull and i'm injecting some excitement into it again and yeah i'm i'm reading at the price chart so it looks like it's it it started two thousand eight it opened at a dollar nine nine cents it looks like and it basically was like between one and three dollars then it kinda peaked in twenty thirteen maybe it got some press or something like that it was thirteen yeah thirteen fifty something like that and then for the last six years it's basically brent been flat at roughly four or five bucks after for a takeover and and now it's six eighty five right now and so so it was about five when i started the takeover this is far more interesting to be as small as as it is right i mean it's to be cool to be as unknown of a project it feels it's on it feels unknown to be as unknown of a project as it is it's been around this two thousand and eight it's pretty under this word right well so in the beginning he got a lot he was like on the today show he was on all kinds of stuff and then he did because what was interesting is he's had some epics with it like a project was i think it was called the girlfriend project and know it was literally about his relationship his really his girlfriend buys shares his ex girlfriend is still a shareholder i'm pretty sure his current i don't know if it's his wife or not is is like a shirt like and that was the end of the shareholders meeting was his ex girlfriend and his current girlfriend or wife having a conversation it was the most interesting like half hour i've ever seen in my life because they were just and and they they're friendly i think there might be friends but just them talking about mike and it's kinda beautiful because you have all these people who like are there just from a money perspective or just a fascination perspective in my case or from a love perspective like supporting this guy and like trying to make the right decisions for them so think it's brilliant like as soon as i announced this on twitter we got some inbound from like some like i don't think they're they're documentation or something like that like i don't know if it'll come with anything but it's like it's a fascinating story that i think deserves more more more give so i'm glad you asked about it because you guys have a pretty medium audience that's great there's there's even like a what happens when i die like unlike a company i will die so what happens to my shares after i die there's like this is pretty crazy i mean it kind of makes no sense in that like yeah you there's there's yeah it's completely nonsensical yeah but bro you bought a hundred and fifty thousand dollar image of a monkey so like this is you know like you buy it the punk you got oh you're a punk guy this is from ap fest so this is my nice little yeah it was fifty it was a coin flip to use the velcro portfolio either we buy up a paper a punk and there were the same price on that day and we knew that the the purchase was gonna have to happen they're what april was about to buy the punk and so it was like what do we which asset should we buy now knowing this news is about to break or it has just broken or something and we flipped punk and then apes went through the roof and punk something fly or down everything's down now too it's interesting thing very dude check this out so if you go to mike's blog so there's news dot k mike m dot com where he like it's it's ran like a shareholder company i mean a like a like a the investor relations page of a publicly traded company and he has the list of all of his principles and on health it says like as of october twenty third two thousand nineteen i'm in favor of experimenting with psychedelics and you click psychedelics and there's a like notes from a board meeting about like who voted and why they voted and what is reason and what the reasoning is and how they are or are not gonna start doing psychedelics then in two thousand sixteen i will not take a a silly pills i don't know what that is and it's like talks about why he wanted to take them and everyone's voting and he has like a update on that and then like entertainment shareholders will have direct control over my television television watching i will and then twenty thousand nineteen i will watch spider man the subscription subscriptions yeah i will not subscribe to spotify the some of these are like stupid like the glasses one it says that thirty four users voted with eighteen eighteen hundred shares yes so thirty four people participated in that vote for the glasses i guess that was not a very not a very big one let's see this and if i it i haven't i'm pretty forty four people like who he's voting for like president up like he's done stuff like that as well which she gets really fascinating yeah but that's just as meaningless list as the classes interesting well he is in i believe he's in oregon so i'm not sure i mean he's in a state that is is gonna vote one way or the other anyways wow yeah two thousand twenty i will endorse bernie sanders for president okay amazing listen man this is this is fun i'm glad you came on and take good time thank you brought some good stuff same what you think dude can you send me send me the the research thing that was the most fascinating thing that was really interesting i will and i'll send you some redacted i'll send you the structure and you can film red redacted no i no one will i won't share it with any of these losers it'll just be for me don't for that let me think of it i'm at again i have a boss i'm on a board i gotta be careful now so yeah yeah well are you guys i'll send you something ed pedal isn't public now but it will be right i mean weird we're not going next year and a number of years probably before anything like the red pudding but i'm great you know there's the laws i'll look yeah i'll located it up with something don't worry don't worry this is awesome i'd i typically hate having not hate i i say no to everyone that sean brought you yeah we we kinda hate having kiss but then we have many anyways ways and we're not we're not fully sure why we do it but we do it in the moment it seems like a good idea halfway through the episode it's like that i kinda wish i was just bullshit with sam instead of getting but i'm always happy when we do it because i have to prepare but you one of the feet one out of every four is awesome and i'll just hope that everybody thinks they're that one out of four you actually were that one out of four so good view what makes a good guess versus is not a good guess just for the audience to hear if they come list to the pod if if they already know the vibe if they know the the what's cool they and that tends to work really well i think what do you think sam i agree and most people most people aren't like sean and i and that they don't do this for a living and so they need to come prepared with the things and and even us we come some the re we do research sometimes we do sometimes we don't but there's at least bullet points so it's like alright next and you did a good job of of saying next a lot of people if you i don't know if you paid attention but sean very purposely in the beginning he's like i don't really care about the company in your background let's just move on to the other stuff so and we we actually we we we tend to do that a lot and so that was cool and so that's the least interesting except for michael sailor that episode was like that episode was money because he was just so weird like it was just like what's gonna happen guys like what's gonna happen in the next minute that was that was an interesting one did you hear when out a me i was like yeah i like fast cars he goes i don't like fast cars but i have a really fast that's that that's well know the quote the quote i tell everyone from that episode is yeah i don't really like things that you can't in normal use go at their max speed like and that's the news referred with cars like it was like boats and jets i'm allowed to to go at max speed you know ga is not really so i was i just thought who even has that thought about like am i utilizing this machine to its fullest velocity a guy not i'm not most of his balance sheet and a bitcoin that's that's who has that thought which is great idea that those people exist dude sean did you see my instagram or twitter or something i did i this weekend i was in the hampton that's not a humble brag it was my in law's house so had nothing do with it but and that's a midwest thing he just did a midwest thing just so you know the very midwest know i have yeah i have an e equifax member but like they're gonna do my laundry so it's like worth it was on failed like i'm not a big time guy i'm not a big time guy yeah that's what it was my in law's house and i went out there and i drove we went to the beach for bon fire in the fourth and we drove by this area that was just pat it was like it's like a small one lane road and it was packed full of cars but they were fancy cars and in front of me was a bug and it was a special boo guy i looked it up was like a five million dollar bug got and i was like what the fuck is going on here and so i get to the parking lot to park my car and it was full of black limo but not limo like the escalate full of them and then in the corner one of the limo had their trunk open and literally i'm not exaggerating a video of it a hundred limo drivers but just hanging out drinking and coke eating chips and i was like what the fuck is going on here and they go it's michael rubin party michael rubin has the famous white party and i made a joke i was like he only lets whites in which they didn't like lot drivers yeah yeah i was like you know was like oh why holy really that's weird maybe i should go i don't know was it was a bad joke and and and that anyway i go reuben and they go yeah it's reuben he he's having this party it's famous he goes i drove this one i was like yeah we drove drake and like i was like yeah jay z's there and i was like wait really and i looked it up on instagram and it was just crazy party and i was like well tell me everything he goes you know i drove this guy and he's broke one guy goes i drove ty remember ty from fast furious yeah yeah yeah he's like i drove that guy and and the driver goes i'm richard than he is that guy's broker that a joke i got more money than that guy and i was like wait what really any like audition he and he kept tell me all of this said he was the guys who are really rich they typically drive themselves because they got that bug got and they wanna show it off but it it was really fascinating i was just hanging with these i we hung with them for like half an hour just asking them all rumors and gossip and they knew it all that's amazing i after you as you sent that you sent me that video and then i went on instagram and i saw like six nba players were posting stories from the party so i was like james harden at party mh and then whoever you know like these other guys were you know oil and beads at the party and it's it's the all white party wherever these everybody's like it was a rapper and athletes to seem like which is which is exactly it was it was so cool and like he's got like this private beach area and then we were like a hundred yards down the beach and right next to the parking in lot and it was just packed and we there's boo got because there's was all these crazy it was pretty it was i just imagined you in the in the party with like you know that meme where it's the guy at the party are yelling into the girls year and you're just like it's a newsletter we said it daily the marketing information company technically i'm there but like you know all your customers in one crm no i austin my first million you a million yeah no no an m you spotify we're on there we got video access on there no we mostly talk about twelve year old stop but is pretty cool sean no he's not here he doesn't leave his house sometimes he has walking hair sometimes he has short hair i don't know no i'm not at my in laws live here that's i love no my dad in law's is jacked more than i am it's kind of uncomfortable to that's fuck up that that bit we'll not get old for a while that's awesome i guess we should we got in there right yeah thanks for coming dude