Part 2: Pomp On His Businesses, Young Rock Star Employees, And The Internet Entrepreneur Hero

but what i've over time started to realize also is like it goes back to kind of why we wanna search some of these companies investing in other people's companies is great and obviously the power law takes over and when that occurs it's an amazing and angel investing can be really profitable but actually you're much more likely to be able to take you know fifty hundred thousand dollars start a business and get to like a million dollars in revenue and throw off five hundred to seven hundred thousand dollars in profit year after year after year and do it with like a very high degree of of probability of success and so in some way like what's better than angel investing in other people's ideas it may actually be just like angel investing in your own ideas or your own companies and so that's really where i've been focused is like yes i will still on occasion invest in other companies but now i wanna start these businesses and i look at it as what is the competitive advantage we have capital but we also have distribution and so if you have capital and distribution you'd basically just need like a decent idea and you need an absolute killer operator and if you can define those two things combine it with the capital and distribution you got a good chance and being able to make some money alright we got an episode here with pom anthony pom who you may know as the bitcoin guy he huge all over youtube twitter everywhere else he came on we were actually gonna do this as a two part episode because at the beginning it was all business and we were business in the front we were talking about this crazy million dollar biology bet where he's betting that bitcoin is going to a million dollars in the next ninety days we talk about that why ba thinks it what we think about the bet and pumped does a you know i don't know econ one zero one where he explains what's going on with the banking system from his perspective that was good but here's something though in that episode the whole episode is about something that's gonna happen inside the next ninety days so if you're gonna like it is a little fearful listening to it and so actually listen to the whole thing because and do it now because we're talking about some happening in ninety days and then go ahead the second episode was way more fun and it was pretty wild go ahead we talk about his business empire you know what he's building and why he's building it that way why he gave back all the money from his fund and shut that down why he it's huge turned off all his advertisers millions of dollars of advertisers what he's doing instead so we talked about that and then we talked about it then it went off the wall and the the pod got a little crazy but in a great way i think people are gonna you're gonna love part two he broke down like all of his businesses and how they work it's very impressive it it was pretty wild and it was it was he's he's impressive he's significantly more impressive than a lot of people think i think because there's way more scenes pretty funny stories which pop is usually he's pretty buttoned up on his on his main channel because he's talking finance he's talking serious but he tells some pretty funny stories so the second part two is the more fun episode part one is the more serious episode i think you'll like him both and we have to remind you guys that our episodes we work really really hard and unlike every other type of podcast podcasts out there our stuff's not free but you don't pay with money all you have to do is go to our youtube page we call this the gentleman's agreement what is it the ladies understanding the ladies go to understanding you go to our youtube page and the reason it's called that is because it's an understanding it's an agreement we can't be there behind your screen to check this otherwise we would but everyone's doing it so just go ahead and do it and click subscribe on youtube and then just go ahead and do that on spotify and itunes because the more you do that the more our volume goes up and we get more downloads and we could do keep doing this set of stuff pom gonna come on to episodes like this if if we don't have a big listener ownership same with all the other guests alright enjoy can we talk about instead of value ruining we talk about value creation because pop owns like four companies i think that i wanted to ask him about and my fight flight mode is like too much right now that i need like i need like a rags or riches story i need something interesting i need i need pump to tell me how he makes makes the paper now because i i need to calm down i need to meditate by stop telling you how he makes income is that alright sean yeah but but how do what's your question how do you wanna frame it well so pump he has from what i understand you have four or five different companies and you have this office in miami and you have like it feels like you have at first i was gonna call a mini empire but it doesn't sound so many actually it sounds empire medium empire yeah maybe big i'm empire i don't know can you explain what are like the things that you got going on yeah so you know for my career if you really think about there's kinda three stages to some degree at first it was like hey how do i build companies and i basically had enough success was okay maybe i'm not like horrible at this but i definitely don't have how like build companies to scale etcetera that led to facebook where like that was kinda my equivalent of like an nba right i literally was with all these super talented people in twenty fourteen twenty fifteen i was put on a number of different projects where i got exposed to mark zuckerberg shell sand and a bunch of the leadership of the the company and i just learned a lot it was like the best learning experience possible and shortly thereafter i started investing and when i started investing was kinda like i didn't have an idea to start a company so like let's try this investing thing and i really enjoyed doing it ended up building two different asset management firms and like it's fun but like the product is kind of money and you get a work on a bunch of different ideas but i think that i keep coming back to an idea of like venture capital is such a slug percentage game that what you end up doing is you end up actually playing an access game almost more than you do playing a business game and what i mean by that is outside of the maybe the big five or six venture capital funds once a company gets der risked it is all access right it is literally who do you know how do you get into a deal how do you actually get an allocation whatever and like that's fun but that to me is more of like a kind of a status type thing of like oh what do these people think of will they invite me into the deal like that maybe is like an under belly of the venture capital industry and so simultaneous to building this asset management firms i started creating content on the internet and in hindsight like it was optimized initially for learning then it kinda switched like oh there's a lot of deal flow that comes from this and so i like took a little bit more seriously and then there was this like final transition to like oh these are like businesses right and i think the big aha that i had was historically you built a company by building the product and then going and looking for customers now you can find the customers and then build the product and so that's essentially what we've done is we've built this very very large audience you know the podcast is twenty five million downloads last year youtube's half a million subscribers one day i think you guys are gonna pass me so keep going the email is big twitter's big etcetera is there podcast is are you bigger than us right now are you trying to flex on us or are we already big i think downloads ranges from a hundred thousand to a hundred and fifty thousand per episode and if that's so the the rs fee the actual pod is in the hundred thousand ish range sometimes more sometimes less and then the youtube video is twenty to fifty thousand so that's why what we say hundred a hundred and fifty thousand downloads you guys will do more than the on individual episodes but i have like this crazy power law like we just put up a an interview on youtube it's got you know hundred thousand views in the first twelve hours right so it's like very much concentrated on like the long tail and which is like also interesting right like would you rather have the consistent fifty to hundred thousand youtube and and podcast or would you rather have the breakout like million you know views plus every month or so like yeah so you may maybe maybe you'll catch up to us one day i don't know slow so so the general idea has just been like how do you build those businesses and really it's like once you know who the audience is you can go and build products but like i very much look at it as a game and it goes back to the whole idea like i don't have hobbies right like this is what i do in my free time and i really enjoy doing it and so we've built a number of different businesses some of them have been bigger than others but really it's like if you have distribution then you can build companies in the twenty first century and we see you know really really big creators doing this i tend to think of anyone can do it and then i guess what are the businesses so there's the media company itself then we have a with two aspects and you you have at you have so yeah let's just listen so number one media company that has that has advertising is that a substantial sized business it used to have advertising it was a very substantial business it probably was one of the best monetized podcast podcasts in the world based on the audience to to revenue it it was a big podcast and so both on the revenue side and also the the demos i turned all the ads off and i think there was really two things that fed into it one was when you have an advertiser usually you just go and you find companies that you like their product you then say hey i use this product you guys should check it out and that's like fine if you're doing like a bar of soap or you're doing like liquid death or you know like what whatever the the normal product is the problem in finance is like people put their money into a product that you then share and so you're essentially like renting your reputation to someone else right and you have no control over the business you don't know what they're doing and then it's not like oh i bought this you know chair they got recommended i bought this sweatshirt that sean and sam said it was really cool i don't like it like i have the idiots right but like i'm not that worried about it when somebody puts their money into a product then all of a sudden it it's a whole different game and so i just didn't wanna be in that world anymore especially when a lot of them are crypto companies and crypto companies kept blowing up etcetera but the second thing that i realized from a business opportunity standpoint is when i got rid of all of the advertising i knew that we would take a massive hit we have a team we've had an office like all this stuff and so i had to commit to personally covering everything so like once i made the decision i'm been losing money every month but i'm doing it because the bigger opportunity is to actually own the products and services that you put through the distribution so think of it like you guys will get paid as a podcast host for an ad they might pay you one dollar to read the ad but they're making three to five dollars on the back end as their return on advertising now if you can cut out the middleman man and you can just own the product or service that's a way better deal reason why most people don't do it is because they don't have to skill set or the interest and actually building the product of the service and so i basically just was like look we kinda like figured out how to do advertising based content i want a hard challenge i want to do something that is going to be by most people's accounts stupid to give up all this revenue and go try this and like it's one intellectually stimulating but two is if we figure it out it'll be a way bigger business and it'll be a much more sustainable resilient thing over the long run it's just you gotta be able to weather the kind of bumpy transition in between ad base to you know owning the products and services yourself so we have fund we have media company which sometimes does sometimes doesn't actually make revenue that we have hold on hold on the fund didn't you give all the money back aren't you no longer in the fund so there's two different asset management firms one was a joint venture with morgan creek capital a hedge fund we invested all the capital and yeah invested in companies like coinbase base and we have boston bitcoin those types of things and you get a cut if it ever does well correct and then i had a second asset manager for from us one of the first people to do a rolling fund on angel list which i found was an incredible product for somebody who has a small team and and kinda wants to punch above their weight and so i think we grew it into like maybe the third biggest rolling fund on the platform at the time made a bunch of investments and then i just got to the point where i started do the math and i was like what do i enjoy investing in i enjoy investing in like the pre seed seed actually don't like doing like series b series c stuff again because it's more like this like status and access game i enjoy meeting someone who's like i have an idea and like talking to them and trying to figure out like is this a viable idea what are the first steps and so if you actually look at the math if you can afford to personally invest in those deals a lot of times it's actually better economically to personally invest than it is to invest out of the fund because of the way that the carry works and and kind of the management fees etcetera and so it was like if i invest personally rather than do the fund and also now i don't have to spend time on lps on the updates like do all the things that go into managing a fund i get time back plus i could make more money like i'll always pick that and so i gave back all of the uni invested capital out of that fund and then now just do all of my investing personally and do you do big checks or is it like the normal like fifteen to thirty thousand dollar angel check no i'll do bigger than that but what i've over time started to realize also is like and it goes back to kind of why we wanna start some of these companies investing in other people's companies is great and obviously the power law takes over and when that occurs it's an amazing and the angel investing could be really profitable but actually you're much more likely to be able to take you know fifty a hundred thousand dollars start a business and get to like a million dollars in revenue and throw off five hundred to seven hundred thousand dollars in profit year after year after year and do it with like a very high degree of of probability of success and so in some way like what's better than angel investing in other people's ideas it may actually be just like angel investing in your own ideas or your own companies and so that's really where i've been focused is like yes i will still on occasion invest in other companies but now i wanna start these businesses and i look at it as what is the competitive advantage we have capital but we also have distribution and so if you have capital and distribution you'd basically just need like a decent idea and you need an absolute killer operator and if you can define those two things combine it with the capital and distribution you got a good chance and being able to make some money and so you have and by the way what's your biggest angel investment or what what we'll end up be so far the most successful one you think some of the big i mean bitcoin obviously is probably the one that wind up making the most money both in terms of the amount of money i invested but also kinda just the aggregate dollar of value it'll be worth i would tend to be in sean's camp like the dollars aren't gonna matter it's gonna be the bitcoin i i think that some of that people will find interesting i don't know the exact math on all of them and and one of the things is when it's your own money you probably pay less attention than when it's a fund right because you're kinda just like oh i invested that money's gone hopefully i get some back later camp but i invested in var dell inn and a bunch of those guys they're doing kind of space manufacturing i find that really fascinating a friend and i we invested in something called ever well based out of austin actually they do like at home diagnostic testing i invested in howard le new company rome they're kind of building like a workspace for remote teams kind of a zoom and slack type killer that seems to be doing very very well and a whole host of other ones so alright so we're and then you so you got the fun in investing and got that thing media company you also have crypto academy you have crypto jobs which par now into like a proper recruiting service yeah those three so you can basically think of the inflection points business a biz called inflection points you can think of that almost as like it's become a holding company for all these different products and services in a specific vertical so i'm fascinated with mark leonard i don't know if you guys know constellation software he basically buys these like vertical least vertical specific software companies well what happens if you don't have a holding company that ends up buying across the different verticals what if you just have a holding company within a specific vertical and so that's basically what we've built we have a job marketplace that companies can go list their open roles they pay for it we then use the distribution to drive traffic people can go get a job we also have that's that's pop crypto jobs dot com right that's it correct okay and and that that's like a pretty basic business it's just a job board think of a job board right that's how we got started was just a job board got it we launched it it got like fifty thousand dollars in monthly revenue pretty much in like the like four weeks and it was like okay we have business here right we can go and we can try to scale this thing we then bought a recruiting company kind of traditional head hunters proof of talented the name of that business and so you can do like self serve you can go and list the jobs and people will come to you or you can go and you can work with the recruiters they just take a percentage of the first year fee then we started doing corporate training so there was a very large company that came to us and was like hey can you train our people and so we got into that business ended up growing that to seven figures in revenue and then we just started a research business the research business think of it as like buy side research so you pay a subscription fee and they deliver research kind of a couple times a week called reflex you say what that's you know we say what that was called so that one's like that that one's like a perfect example right so reflex research is within that holding company but i think is a perfect example of like what i wanna do now over and over and over again so if you have an idea please reach out to myself sam or sean but will clement is a a young guy in the bitcoin crypto world has done really great analysis i've worked with him for about a year i know that he's hard work find that guy he was looking in college right where you found him that guy was great working at target he was working at target literally he was literally working at target and he would go into the story couldn't in either way this is gonna one clear or not big so the floyd researcher was working at target alright this is either a great underdog story or it's gonna be how could you guys trust this guy well i don't remember every single detail but he had like i don't know a couple thousand maybe a thousand followers on twitter he was going into the bathroom at target and like tweeting like bitcoin charts and stuff and so i met him because of the stuff he was tweeting and then was the bathroom no i'm on last time being like hey you put your bad around what do you do like also and he's like like i'm literally like in the bathroom at target tweeting on my lunch break right or whatever i was like alright like that's pretty cool and so we just started to you know kind of interact online then i started to bring him on the podcast and just like i got to know him and was like okay like this kid is smart he's young so he just have a ton of experience but like his compounding rate of learning was like off the charts he would like read a book in two or three days and then like send me hey here's all the things i learned from the book and then he's like read another one to do it again and was just alright the trajectory of this is not linear or this is very much like compounding or exponential like this is i must spend time with why is a guy who's this sport at this into learning working at target in the first place like was he just not interested in school only interested blockchain what why does this happen he in college he this was like his like job while he was in college was like you just go to like the local businesses right got a job at target cool so he ended up dropping out of college and kinda like bet on himself he got a job eventually were like hey maybe we should like start a company together and so we figured out kind of the structure of the business we put some money into the business and we in the first six months got to you know a hundred k of arr and i think that we will be at maybe three or four hundred k of arr after the first you call it nine months and then i think that maybe we can get somewhere around a million dollars in the first year and so it's like if you can do this product but by the way this product i'm looking at the site so it i i used to own this thing called trends trends dot c and we got that to be a good business but you guys are doing very similar but you're making not i'm made mistake of being broad you're doing just crypto it's twenty five hundred dollars a year and what is it just a weekly newsletter no you get like anywhere between four to six different research reports per week and then there's a weekly what we call like an analyst call so we've got a bunch of these young people who are like crypto native kids right i'll i'll use kids because they're like under the age of twenty five most of them and they're super super smart they're like in all the discord channels and and they really understand like what is happening in the community and then you take someone like me who can help them wrap that into something that can be consumed by large family offices hedge funds you know large asset managers individual investors etcetera and so not only do you get the research reports but you also get that weekly call where you get a get on and just ask them questions so like and they're what and they're they're what their more j jason here for from jpmorgan just quick question for come squad sixty nine you you mentioned that you were you literally baby on the call would love you would love to hear you expand on that and also whoever's vaping can you please you you the microphone microsoft they call everyone bra like sa yeah you we literally we we literally have like public company ceos who are subscribers and they get on the call and they're like trying to like you know learn and all this stuff and when you have these businesses i think that there there's like posting cons like internet native businesses that are started especially with young people who want to work who who kind of have this desire to kind of push forward the good thing is like they're young they're like too naive to know all the things that would stop somebody else from doing it they have a lot of time on their hands and like frankly they're willing to make mistakes right they don't get embarrassed because they did something you're just like hey don't do that they're like okay like thanks and they just go and do something else the downside to it is like at one point we literally had to have like a little bit of an internal session i'm like hey here's how you write you know like like a grammar and like here's how to like use punctuation and spacing and like all these cut types of things and so you go into these businesses understanding that like it's all about momentum and then you have to look for the rate of or the compounding rate of learning and if you can set it up correctly these businesses can grow to be pretty substantial they can be profitable and also the thing i enjoy the most is like if i could go back and be twenty two again like i wanna go get a fucking job right wanna like kinda bet on myself and use this internet thing and try to make money and make more money than i could make at a regular job and so in many of our different businesses we have people who have made enormous amounts of money compared to what they could make if they went and got a normal job doing the exact same skill but it's all comes down to incentives and so in every business what i try to do is i try to create upside where we take a portion of revenue or profit depending on the business we put it into a pool and then we try to split that among the team and so if you have a profitable business and you're able to incentivize people and you're like hey when you win i win and when i win you win people will do incredible quality and velocity of work because ultimately the capitalist incentive takes over and they just simply wanna make money and they wanna do good work to make that money and so it ends up a aligning interest and these businesses can absolutely explode but i do five things instead of just one thing that that could maybe like just grow a little bit faster or have more your focus i am doing one thing so i think this is like a a different way of looking at it i'm providing capital and distribution that's the only thing i do right when i start the research business will and the people he has hired they're doing the research they're doing kind of all the different things i'm really really good at putting together the deals in the capital and then pushing a high quality product through my distribution and hopefully that'll grow to not just be my distribution to be other people's distribution but i couldn't run the recruiting business i couldn't run the research business i couldn't run you know a lot of these different businesses i have to kinda stay within that circle of competence and it's just like provide capital have a huge mega and i guess maybe pick correctly right pick the people that you're gonna do it with correctly and then just like get out of the way and let them be great at what they do and if you have the stars align like they can become pretty big business sean and i are kinda in like a similar spot as you and the thing i keep asking myself is like yeah this is awesome we you know and sean and not i each separately are doing it's very similar to things his view but i think to myself but when are people gonna stop listening to me when when am when am i not gonna be cool anymore do does that do you get that fear of like your clout won't matter well i i think that i've now been on the internet long enough we're like i've gone through peaks and valleys like twenty twenty one i could have literally tweeted sup and it was going mega viral during like the bitcoin bull market right like literally i just breathe on the internet everything went viral but like that's not me and you have to be grounded enough to understand like that's bitcoin bull market you know product that's not because i'm some genius now when that stuff crashes you know i have this saying of like if you get the praise on the way up you gotta eat the shit on the chin on the way down and so like you know you've eaten a lot of shit because you're you're so charismatic and you make all these bold claims i mean you get a lot of crap yeah but like if if you view that from the perspective like these people are attacking me like you'll be super depressed and you'll like run away and and be quiet a lot of people do that when the bitcoin you know bear markets come or other asset markets come like there are people who just disappear right instead i look at those opportunities as kind of a defiant way to say like it does not matter what happens i'm not leaving and so you know in this last one when f t x blew up and all this stuff happened i went on national television and was grilled by a reporter for twenty minutes and in a completely un script thing he like he went friendly but to me like that's where my skill set shines is like i will debate anyone at any time on topics that i think i understand and it's even better if it's on live tv because guess what we did i went on television i did it i got off twitter was like on fire people were like that was the greatest segment of all time these two guys just went at it and i emailed them and i said send me the video i took the video to immediately uploaded it to youtube the full thing and i said title pump destroys tv host on bitcoin and publish right and so like why go on television it's to get the clips to get the content to then post on your own stuff right so i i think that the hate you have to also realize like oh like that's the president of my marketing team that guy there's a guy yesterday true story who created an entire thread of hate he had videos he had tweets he literally filmed himself un following me right like he filmed his phone screen record un following me and i almost dm him and said thank you right but i was just like dude do you not understand how the internet works the more you attack people the bigger the audience gets and i don't wanna be attacked like i'm not seeking controversy you're i'm not seeking to be attacked but what ends up happening is if you have that that view of that lens the haters are actually on your team they just haven't realized it yet and so like let them do their thing let them keep hating and naturally the audience gets bigger and bigger over time what distribution channel is gonna be the most effective to you and the one that you're when we when you talk about this distribution and if you only had one of them let's say twitter email list podcast youtube which one would you say this is the most powerful and this is the one i'm focused on growing so the one that i wouldn't give up is the email but i don't necessarily i think that's the one i'm most focused on growing i think that audio is a really interesting medium where you're basically whispering in someone's ear for like an hour like it's super intimate and people really come to trust you and things like that and so i think probably someone out there like just doing reps at the gym grunt right now and listening to us right now yeah we get that a lot so you're we're in people's ears as their bench pressing i mean somebody's bi set curling right now but also someone's like literally at the bottom in their deep squat and they're like damn these guys all in me out right now right but like you're you're basically just you you're in people's ears or in email you've direct communication and also you can write like if if you understand what your best quality is some people is writing some people it is video some people it's just audio and talking i know people have podcast podcasts who script out every single word of the episode i don't think you guys do that right and like if you guys did do that one it would take you guys forever but also two like it wouldn't be as entertaining it would be as fun and so it's kind of trying to figure out like what is the match between like the participant and the medium so like if you guys were sending an email and like you too wrote it you didn't hire anyone like sorry but it probably suck right it would just be like there's no magic here because actually what makes this so magic is that like there's the serendipity and the like iterative nature that you guys have back and forth and so i just think that as people start to get onto the internet trying to build these audiences you gotta a really question like where is my advantage and where do i actually have something that can cut through the noise because now there's so much noise if you don't cut through then you might will not get started this data is wrong every freaking time have you heard of hubspot hubspot is crm platform where everything is fully integrated well i can see the client's whole history calls support tickets emails and here's a test from three days ago i totally missed hubspot grow better i'm exhausted i'm just exhausted i hate when you and the episodes that way i just like that's how i feel like it's like imagine imagine watching a tv show and they're they're put it on the show they're trying to have a good time and at the end they're like fuck man you feel like i just feel like she's down i'm down you saying i'm down you're a you're people will follow your lead if you had a good time have a good time you you gotta have as we say show ship a show man wouldn't be tired at the end of his episode dude i'm not down i'm amped and it's like i got to go with like it's like it's like i just got done working out i gotta go like rest for a minute and then get up and like implement all this stuff i feel like i need to go and like i i i'm maybe i'm in into crypto now i don't know i like he he's just malcolm glad with my ass like i just i just got got you know like i just feel good about like what i heard and you you're just you're full of energy do nap no you nap no you don't nap no hell no why would you now nap get to do oh dude from here nap yeah i think a thirty minute nap every day do you guys both take naps for real yeah i nap every other day it's ninety nine i'm trying to ship every day once i get day every day i know it made it how many hours do you guys sleep at night seven normal same oh man i don't think i could nap during the day but i also drink coffee in the morning so like that might screw it up to i i gotta tell you guys a hilarious story before we go so to pump was talking about is like analyst team was like you know the the the high quality analyst team that's all like you know you know two years out of out of undergrad and we at milk road we basically had a super lean team it was me ben but i wasn't active day to day really i was you know just kind of guiding ben was running it and then there was a our our lead writer diego who's awesome and then we hired one guy we were like maybe we should do social media and so we put out a thing being like hey i don't know how to you tiktok but if you do come work for us and so this guy billy uploaded this incredible video it's on it's on the internet go go look on twitter but basically you upload video just chugging milk shirtless and just like doing it was just like a ridiculous video he's like he would find somebody like hey he hold his phone i'm trying to get a job and then he would choke the milk and they'd be like a job this and so hey anyways we hired billy we tried to do the tiktok thing didn't fully work out but it was okay but billy billy is great guy i he helped ended up helping write the newsletter so two hilarious things just happened first they did a milk team off site like something we never did because my whole ethos builder the milk road was like i'm not trying to be a ceo anymore like i'm not trying to like stand up in front of the company with a t shirt with our name on and tell everybody how great everything is like i don't wanna even have to do all that stuff but the the new guys who bought it they wanna do the company building so they invited everybody out and i asked ben i how was the off site he goes and one one insight from the whole thing he goes billy showed up in a wife beater but not as a joke he just said out what he warned to the event and no one said anything and i was like no one said anything i go wow that's incredible i can't imagine not saying anything and then the fast four three weeks billy billy they offered billy raised and he quit instead and i was like it's a ben goes billy you you gotta raise and you quit like this guy's a conundrum and what what's going on he goes it goes he goes you quit like what's what's the plan he just provides a bed in the text he goes do i look like a guy with a plan that it became the most bad thing i've heard all week do i look like a guy a plan but sean i i tend to think that we over index a lot on like people wanna always hang out with their heroes right they wanna hang out with the older people they wanna hang out with the people who've have done the thing that they're trying to do and there's a lot of value you can get from that but i do think that we drastically under index on like go find a young energetic person who you're like you are literally an idiot but damn are you gonna be an awesome idiot who's gonna run through twenty walls and eventually find something on the other side and what it does is it like it forces you to up your game like have you ever talked to like a twenty one year old and you're like okay so let's get this done by wednesday and they're like okay and then they send it back to you like two hours later and you're like damn why do we wait till wednesday like this kid is actually correct we should just get it done now and so i do think that the internet companies are these native companies that's one of the big advantages they have like you know you guys had hub you've had andrew we'll get to like a bunch of people who were doing this when you find the right person who can just like get shit done you are unstoppable with the internet now and i think that that is something that more and more people are gonna wake up to and like it wouldn't surprise me if we like bankrupt up main street businesses because they all move online as people just realized like why am i gonna have like a physical store that people have to walk into when i can just do this online thing and it is a big concern for these local communities but at the same time like there's way more economic opportunity online for for people who wanna do that one of the other guys we tried to hire milk road he was a young guy twenty twenty one years old he was working at main street at the time and i love this guy's tweets i thought he was interesting and he would tweet out these like little random websites he was making on the weekend that were like just super simple like kind of like it's either gonna go viral or this is the dumbest thing ever there's no in between there was no like kind of core product service it it made no sense nothing it did made any sense and i was like do i love this guy i told that i was like hey we should hire this guy like what's he gonna i i don't know we should just have him do what he's doing now but without his full time job like what if we just gave him more time to do the stupid shit he's doing on the weekends monday through friday and instead and so i talk he'll figure it out i talked to him i was like hey you know do that i think this milk growth is gonna work was super early we were like i know four weeks into it or something and i was like i think this thing's gonna work you should join it's the same thing what am i gonna do i go just do do do weird you know rolling stuff that you do go just go ahead and do that and he's like alright cool let me let me like let me get let me hit you he's like when do wanna start like tomorrow and i was like no like i got like i'm traveling i'm gonna be back on wednesday let's talk on wednesday which is like four or five days away fatal mistake classic thirty four year old mistake thinking that that the world's not gonna change in four days this guy's entire he in those four days he ends up launching an an project that goes super viral ends up making so much buddy he goes and becomes this anonymous account frank d gods and this is and and he created have the d gods project i can talk about it now because he's like out publicly but for a while i was like what the fuck is this and so i kept trying to hit him up and be like what happened i didn't know he was the guy behind d gods and i was like dude what you ghost me like we we were we had such a good ideas like hey man like three weeks later he just resurfaced like sorry bro like like can two it was like no time had passed between our conversations like oh yeah about that i don't know man i i now doing this other stuff i gotta do this and i was like tell me about it so he he screen shares and he shows me how he's growing it and one big i'll ever forget that was like the classic like this is this guy's is an idiot this makes no sense but i i'm am down and i'm i wanna be in this car and so i he shows me the site and i go how do you stop people from just selling it like you know right away like what what are you getting because nothing holds value unless the the people who buy it hold it was just why like for bitcoin the genius meme is the the hold old meme right because it became culturally the normal thing to do to just hold the thing and he goes oh yeah i had the same thought so i created something called the paper hands bitch tax you what basically if you sell at a loss if you sell for less than the mid price not only do you get just like you know you take the loss on the principal but we also apply a twenty five percent tax because you had paper hands and we applied the bitch tax to you for selling on on the dip and i was like he's like people loved it like and it totally it totally worked it became like again he he created a meme and and it it it was a monetized meme in his case and i just thought it was awesome so yeah i'm totally down to a hang out with these guys sean wei this was happening i just looked at my dms so i have like a another perspective on the exact same situation which was one of the hacks that people have figured out is if they post something on their instagram story like a lot of times people with bigger audiences would just like share it but in the dms it looks like they like messaged you so now there's like they posted something then you posted something and so he did that and he he posted something i repo it and then he followed up with he's gonna kill me for reading sellout out he goes if you have any ideas for some more fun tools for us to make that you think would be helpful we'd love to chat man and he said it like we were like boys right but he just like i was kinda like saying it like of course like you're gonna engaged i didn't respond got maybe i didn't sit or whatever and so i guess i went to la for the super bowl and then he follows it up with y we got a kick it while you're out here like like again like we're like boys and i'm like who is this like twenty something year old kid right and so then he just keeps messaging me until finally in july he just starts damning me things and he just keeps saying y and so i met him in person of miami emmy and i was like who are you basically and he's like i'm a bitcoin or whatever but like i have this secret to tell you and he coming up the and i was like what is going on and he was showing up the conferences with like hand chips over his face right and like callback as identity and i was just like do you understand how you cannot have like any degree of success or reputation or anything to be willing to like go to the length of success that he went to and i think that's why like young people are so empowering to be around it's just like that kid was willing to do a bunch of stuff no matter how cool we think the three of us are we would never do fifty percent sixty percent of the things that he did because we're like i can't do the paper hand bitch tax because then never was like pump fuck you you know like like yelling and screaming or whatever and this case just like dude this be hilarious watch this compliment implement and it works and so i don't know it's just like how do we find more of those if you're like a young kid who has idea of like well super tax please dm us i'll tell you i'll tell you where i where i messed up so i had met i think i think i told store i've told stories in the pod about like four people like this i basically they had four people that i kind of like either did hire or we're trying to hire as like a really junior kinda like intern mentor type type situation that have all gone on to become like multimillion millionaire done super interesting things and i was like how do i have more of this young energy in my life because these people are awesome they're flawed for sure they do a lot of dumb shit but the things they do do are all it's always interesting it's never boring it's like you know it's reality tv in a way to me so i'm like alright i wanna be i i i wanna just get older and as you become more successful you start hanging out with older and older people than you become old and so i'm like no i'm trying to fight that so i did this dumb thing which was i tried to recruit i tried to like put out the call for people like this i was hey if you're young you're smart you know like joint like yeah i just wanna hang with you i'll invest in your stuff or i don't know i'll mentor you y'all do something i put out a type form and i got all these smart people applying but they were all the wrong people because i had done it in a way that was like it was like the high achieve path it was like here's an admission form and they're like a test i know how to win the i know how to apply for things and get picked and be like and so they just set all the the the right sounding things which was here's my background here's my pe they're well spoken and i recruited like twenty of the wrong people and i just had to like abandon ship i was like okay i need to find a way to get like the shit heads and the wrong yeah they're they're they're the wrong type of nerd exactly like i don't want high achieve nerd that's used to ticking all the boxes and getting good scores on all the standardized standardized tests and you know getting picked for the the the like the the thing that their parents wanted them to do or school wants them to do it's like you need the person who's gone off the path you know will in the bathroom at target you know who's doing like reckless bitcoin stats and shit like that like you need you need somebody who's a little bit off the path because they're the ones who do more interesting things and so i don't know i haven't figured out how to recruit that except for like referral basically i'm like what did you hang out with it it's marsha lynch there like his famous quote of like i'm about that out action boss boss whatever that boss yeah and like there's a young person i know i i won't use his name or or what he built but he may be able to figure it out he i think he like moved to miami or something or like i was visiting miami maybe and i saw him on twitter he was like tweeting some interesting things i just i was like like basically like what's your deal right and similar to sam like let's fuck i was just like you're like what's your deal and no i i i usually say what what's your story tell me your story sean say for friends when when i was in austin we were texting and he was like should we do dinner and i responded with let's fuck and he was like god damn but so this kid he like comes to the office and i don't know he's probably like early twenties and he's literally like yeah so me and my friend we like built this app and it's been downloaded seventy five million times it's like making like millions of dollars and i was like what are you doing like like he's like yeah i'm gonna like figure out a new thing to do and i like what about the thing that's working it's like like on autopilot like i'm gonna like figure out this new thing and i was just like man you are so cool i hope that you are so successful we need like a hundred thousand of you in the world because he literally could care less about the money and like all that stuff he just like how do we build cool shit and so i was like man imagine if one of us had built an app and it's seventy five million downloads we'd be talking about it nonstop like that'd be our my tires yeah best an update by linkedin it endorsed by skill did i have the craziest version story i know we're way over but i gotta tell the story it's it's too good so that guy ruined i'm like how do i meet more people like him so my strategy was let me just hang out with him and i told him bring a friend so he drives some la down to san diego to where we're hanging out at this house and he brings a friend of course the friend is you know the twenty four year old version of the dos guy he's the most interesting man in the world so the guy comes in and i'm like alright what's your deal guy who like you know has curly hair and maybe still has pimples like y you must be the best and he of course was the best so he he's like yeah my name name's is luca and i'm like what's your story and he goes so i went in reverse order because he brought in these guns like these nerve type guns like gel blaster i don't if you've you seen this but like the gun called the gel blaster it's basically like they're everywhere yeah it's everywhere now i didn't realize it's like it's like a fifty million dollar a year business so he basically he was like oh right now i'm working on this like d product it's like you know thing well yeah we just we're in walmart nationwide whether you like i don't know some like that basically it's like if you're thirteen year years old this is your like number one thing you want for christmas it's like this it's kinda like less painful than a paint ball gun but like cooler than a nerf gun where it's just a foam thing it's like this little pellet that's like a gel pellet and it shoots like a machine gun so already he brought two over the party became way more fun people are shooting each other it's great so i'm like alright you're doing this that's crazy like yeah you know i was trying to do this but then we got ripped off we got sued by this one thing blah i was like alright what you do before this he goes oh yeah i'm made crypto that's why i know you know why i know you guys you know i bought p penguins so we did like a hostel takeover slash buyout of p penguins this n project which again it's not what you're is you know you don't usually think i'm gonna go spend millions of dollars to buy p penguins n ti ip but he decided that that was a good use of time i said how'd you get millions of dollars hey goes well before that i i started this online e ecommerce brand where i was selling gold chains you know like rappers gold chains and grill and shit like that i go what he's like yeah i just like i just realized that you could just buy these like kind of crazy bling out rapper gold chains and like and i sold it them and then i sold my company to this company shop gl d which which just like three hundred four hundred million a year i was like they afraid or four i've seen these people like sponsor you know like kinda like you know random instagram influencer and stuff like wow this is all crazy i go how'd did you get started doing that and i got one level deeper goes well i i had to like you know for family reasons you know me and my mom were like homeless for a couple years and i had to my he's like just quit school i'm in high school and i had to go make money so i went down the street and i started knocking on doors trying to get a job i got rejected everywhere the last door i knocked on was a start called ring and the guy jamie was was there a tiny office and he's like who are you what do you need he's like i need a job badly like to help pay like for family stuff i'll do anything and he's like okay well i got like i gotta box up all these orders can you just help me with that and so he like started boxing up the orders he's like the first employee at ring and then it looks like with jamie for a few years before going off and doing his own and i was like but now he he's for your son so this was doctor four like twenty he was like twenty four twenty five when i met this guy you know a couple months ago and i'm like you have lived three times in in of career epic and just really interesting things i can't wait to see what this guy's is gonna do next but like that is to me is the future right is like all these young people who have that skill it's not for everyone like some people just wanna go be the account or go be you know cut up a mid level manager and that's their inspiration that's fine but for the people who wanna do this like that guy literally knows more about business and like ip and you know physical store distribution and like all these things then most people coming out of nba schools right like good for that kid hundred percent a hundred and i was like hey i'm trying to think about influencers and i just i literally felt like someone being like like it's like if some it's like when my grandfather comes to me they're they're they're gonna start calling you gray bush exactly well it's like it's like i've held my grandfather like set up facetime you know just so he could see his grandkids and it's like yeah and it's like i don't know just push the green button like that's all that's as far as you're gonna get here like that's how i felt by the end of talking to this guy but how to like how to do online marketing through like influencers on instagram like by the end of it he was like you know what just like send me the link dude i'll take care of it for you you you're not gonna you're not gonna be able to do this stuff dude that's crazy these are these are some good stories i'm i'm i'm back the energy is exactly she just go forever like just do like a ten hour rip soon be thirty percent of pumps morning show he would still be sitting there with his brothers we have like two hours a time to phil you wanna know the craziest part about the morning show is the greatest thing i ever did and the worst thing i ever did because it took so much time to your point but man there is no better thing than just hanging out like imagine if we every single day just livestream stream for two hours about whatever the fuck was going on you had never had more fun than doing stuff like that the problem is you start to just say what's actually on your mind and like getting luna a real doll later one time i was on one time i on your show and i'd like totally ruined it for your sponsor do you remember that no what'd you do i think you had sofa on as like a sponsor yeah and i i i i like something wasn't going well with him and i was like so fine more like so fucked and then i tell your base i saw your face freak out and i go oh wait so by marketing people if you're listening to this this is me sam i'm saying this not pop so don't don't yell at him dude you guys suck or something they were incredible and it was like they had the stadium and the whole thing but like you know how it is right there's probably people who have said things about sponsors or like maybe a company you're an investor in or whatever and you're always like and i wish you hadn't said that but like here we go and that was definitely one of those moments i just like well there's a lot worse things that sam could've have said so like i guess on the grand scale of like what is possible that was like not great but still yeah we'll just keep moving here well i made mariah yeah talk to him sorry got you you've got the the donald trump thing where it's like if you're crazy from the beginning if you just say wild shit all the time there's no penalty it's only like pop you you're a little too smart and like responsible if you slip up even a little people are gonna get on you but like if you're just wild all the time there is no penalty you somehow get out of jail free and i think i i've been trying to steal that from sam now of how to how to just keep it keep it loose and somehow like sam does it to guess they'll come on and be like you know you're really good looking for like an ugly tech guy you're like like you're already your heads kidding you're gonna just be like people be like you're not rich but a little bit of money and there's what should say so sean i know appreciate this whenever people make now whenever people are like hey i wanna start a podcast and i'm like kinda talking through with them for a few minutes in terms of like what to do i use sam as an example so i'm like well you can have like you know a show where you just talk yourself you can have like an interview show and then like within those different categories like you know you can have a a really serious intelligent podcast where you ask really smart questions or you can be like really blunt like you know sam par like who just have guests come on and just be like how much money is your bank account i always think of like man fifty percent of people are like i'm good not gonna answer that and then fifty percent like literally below the answer i don't like what a genius way to get great content it's just like ask the questions that no one will answer and that that he'll follow with something that's like what and the the reason i ask is because because i wanna know it's like it was more justification but there's just done because i'm always curious like you know i've been following for years and i just i was so was curious like what is it well in that book influence they say they say if you if you if you give someone a reason for why you're doing something the more likely to do it fine so i got in the habit of saying like yeah and i'm asking that because i'm curious right it doesn't matter what comes at yeah because it's just a magic mastercard alright can i can ask you guys one question before we before we break here yeah can each of you point who's the one person that's like on the internet so not like you know mark zuckerberg or or jeff bezos or whatever who's like the one internet entrepreneur that you're like man that person seems to have figured it out and like i can't wait to see what they continue to do over the next twenty thirty years and like extra points if it's somebody that no one really knows my obvious one is hub but nick cube but let me think about let me think about why is i don't think that would have been obvious well why is it well everyone knows them i also think that if i had a bet money on like one operator i think it would be austin raf at morning brew like i've gotten to know him really well and he's one of the few people i'm like i'm like afraid of them like if i hears that i'm gonna compete with them i would be like shit it's on so he he he i would say those too but let me try to think of someone who's a little bit more anonymous what about you sean let me ask you a question pump before i answer what would be the what would be the type of answer that would be interesting to you here just somebody who like either nobody knows or somebody who's been like successful doing something that isn't like oh i set up a newsletter and now i have a bunch of like ad revenue like the the pellet gun you know is like fascinating right you're just like man who even knew that was a market so like somebody who's out kind of out of the mainstream alright here's one we have this we both have a friend but i'm gonna hurry up and say it so sean does there's guy named mark jenny who started this company called rv share and he sold it for hundreds of millions of dollars now he owns like fifty million dollars was up airbnb and well like message them like hey do you wanna come on the pod he's like oh i can't for the next three months i'm traveling the world at my kids and their home their homeschooling teacher talk later and he i think he's he's kind of one of the guys who i look at who's just kind one life and then and the last one is the guy who started wp forms what's it called sean there's it's called sai he started this company that owns maybe a hundred million dollar years a hundred million dollar year business where he owns all these wordpress forms and he or wordpress plug ins and he says he works five days a week so one day a week one day a month or one week a month he takes some meetings with all his ceos and then besides that he's giving away a lot of his money and he's like thirty years old married with kids super low that's a great answer sean i'll give you a couple babies that come to mind so i think so i'm job from rep i think he's sitting on a monster business that is kind of hidden in plain sight like people know about it but it's not yet considered to be big just because they haven't come out with a really flashy headline of being worth x billions of dollars like i think when they raised their last round it was at almost like strategically shy of a billion number it was like eight hundred and something million instead of a billion i'm sure they could've have negotiated it up but i actually really liked that he didn't and it's one of these things that just like i think it's a i think it's just gonna be a really important company and i think it's gonna be different than i think it's gonna be different than the the previous winners looked like because you know like what happens is you know amazon takes off and then you think the next big thing is gonna be commerce but no it's actually google then google takes off you think the next thing gonna be search and information no it's actually facebook it starts off as like a college social network then you think facebook's is the big thing and then actually turned up to be uber it was like you know uber and airbnb was like real world shit that you can use your phone as a magic button to do so it's kinda like the next interesting thing is not gonna look like what the last interesting things look like and i think that what rep it is which is this like coding environment for oftentimes beginners teenagers i think is like a stealth really really big deal but it's kinda boring so i wouldn't say like i wouldn't say he's the one i'm looking i kinda know what he's gonna do for the next ten years i almost don't have to look it's like i i just check in in ten years and be like yep the hockey step the hockey stick kept going and like you know obviously that that had big implications i'm gonna i'm an investor in rep and i think that you're spot on of like it's way bigger than people realize but also the most important thing is like they capture new coat and then they try to keep them in that environment and so like if they get you early on like i'm like going to life source yeah it's just like that's your lifetime infrastructure it's fascinating business i'm an idiot and should've have invested so much more money because i completely agree it's gonna be a massive massive company so who are the other ones sean the other ones so i would have said a couple years ago sam alt but now i think that's obvious so i'm gonna say somebody who i think is on par with sam alt but doesn't have the same shine and doesn't have the clear like open ai type of like interesting bet which is daniel gross so daniel gross is one of the more most interesting and impressive people that i've met i think that he fits your category because he's still young enough he's ambitious super super ambitious like sam alt but he's free he's not like currently committed to like one company for like a really long time or like in the middle you know hasn't isn't like picked one path that he has to stay in and so i just can't imagine that in the next ten years daniel gross doesn't do something that is like just epic and i think it could be in some field that you don't that maybe he's not even working in today it could be like longevity or some bio hacking thing so i think that you need people who are willing to go into these other spaces that pull off some impressive shit i think by bio and like sort of this longevity space is really interesting and there's gonna be some tech entrepreneur that's like forget like you know forget the newsletter podcast twitter forget software with vcs forget investing i'm gonna go and do something else with my time and i like people who just choose to play their own game and ideally a game that not everybody else is playing i think daniel gross is gonna be that guy that's a great one and he is kinda like hidden in plain sight but i think that sam was at the same time like he came on our podcast really early on like at the hustle office he's i don't even know how we got him on which just i don't even know who knows it maybe me or you sam i don't remember but he just walked in i don't think he had any idea what we were doing i'm pretty sure we like shared a microphone like we did the thing where you like i think we were on our iphone i'm gonna pass it to you i we were definitely down one mic it's was like because we only never done two people episodes it was this tiny room and we're saying this airpods little table like you you you know like it looks like lunch should be on top of the table like it was that baby of a table and our show is not for everybody it's not like you could sit down most people like cool let's brainstorm start like what's what's an interesting startup idea you have what what are some spaces you think are cool why do you think this is gonna work and this guy was able to r for like two hours on everything from like running to why somebody should create a new apple competitor with creating a new laptop to his investing strategy why it's different like how he's gonna beat yc all these different topics and he just went for like two hours effortlessly and i thought okay that's impressive that's you know the type of person i i like to follow and be around but is is that like a signal you actually should surround yourself with one young people but two is like the most interesting people you can find like i hate going to dinner the sam and our talking about this when we went to dinner like i hate going to like the classic business dinner where like oh what do you do what's going on at work whatever like i love the person who shows up to dinner and they have some wild thing that makes everyone disagree and argue and and like debate what's gonna happen and this and that and whatever and then you find like the person who has that usually has like a whole bag of them right i think literally are like oh okay we're done talking about this one like here's my next you know a out of my back pocket and those people somehow always figure out how to be successful like very rarely do you find the like most interesting man kinda like the kid with the gun right that ends up not figuring it out they may fail a hundred times but eventually they do it and is that just like they think differently and that is kind of the prerequisite to actually finding true success yeah an independent minded it's like jack smith was the other guy who was gonna say because he's like this i don't know do you know jack no who's at he's jack smith he started v which was like a big ad network but he's a kind of young british guy who is sold that company for nine hundred million dollars when he was twenty eight years old and and so he but but like if you talk to him he'll never mention it because it's not because he's being humble like he is humble but it's because it's just not interesting to him don't know even though if it was interesting he left like a few years before it sold because he's like cool i'm gonna do whatever and anytime he talked to jack he's up to a new as sam would call a new cape and it's like it's not like usually for profit like sometimes it's for profit but it's more like jack you don't care about this money like but i'm trying to beat this game and so like one time you'll talk to him and it'll be like he spent the last two months in his garage trying to build the perfect computer chair it's like the like like the thing is zero gravity like floating on your back chair and he tried to every product he's tinkering with it until he gets it right and the next time you talked to him he's like really into the world of collectible and he's like got this arbitrage going where he's buying and selling baseball cards and you're like sam you're jack even know about small he's like couldn't tell you the first thing about baseball but i could tell you that this card right here is undervalued and my like team of the philippines is like flipping them right now for profit then the next time he made to he made he he made like a list where he put in a spreadsheet all the companies that you can buy pair a pair of clothing from and you could return it within three hundred sixty five days he was like i'm gonna see if i can like live for free for a year off these clothes office this clothing they can return it or you know just like weird schemes he just loves we're like he he had a baby and then he didn't name the baby they just called it baby for the first year until the baby could pick its own name by crawling to like one of the names as like this guy's not gonna do anything in the like just standard version and he's not doing any of these like he's not talking about them we are the ones who talk about them maybe he doesn't even want to maybe we should take that out but like he does it do it for the effect like he just does it because he just got curious about that path or wanted to like just thought that makes more sense to him than the other way and then he'll do it and he's not like what you don't want is the guy who's at the dinner to immediately say the crazy thing because they're like trying to see him a little bit out there and like they're trying to build their brand like that's the worst you want the person who's almost a loop to the fact that it sounds bats shit crazy and you're like dude do you realize what you're saying and they're like what what's wrong with that well the by the the baby thing was like the i i made fun michael check for once in your life being normal and then like i i you know like the time passed and i was like that's actually a great idea because he said he goes why would i name my kid before i even know them i actually like see like what type of fits and i was like oh yeah you're actually right it is weird that like we don't get to know them so anyway he does things all the times where at first glance i'm like this is the stupidest thing ever just be normal for once and then he'll he'll like i i actually think he's right a lot of times but i i i think that there's like somebody who has that pro of like always doing things in a different way one it isn't necessarily different to them but two is that those individuals are the ones who actually end up figuring out like what is the best chair or they're the one who like they'll convince a whole friend group to like not name their kids for a year or you know what i mean like there's almost this like lack of importance we put on the courage to be different so like even in friend groups like do you ever notice like everyone thinks something and then once one person says something else then a bunch of people like flip and they're almost like this like kinda like oh what where's the magnet right like this viewpoint is popular they're like they just kind of mo over here and then like this other person said this they mo over there and so i do think that we need those people in a society but also like man what a boring friend group it would be to have where like everyone just gets together on friday and i i'm like did you do this week i don't know went to work right right like what what are you doing this weekend like i don't know gonna like just watch the games like it it it just would not be fun and so i think that a lot of people who listen to this podcast but also just like our quote quote on the internet they're escaping what could be like their local life of that and they're trying to find other interesting people they're trying to find other ideas and and it's like exhilarating for them and so like this jack guy sounds amazing but like how do you find a hundred of them well it's usually five and then you just realize that they're gonna do this forever like there's this one russian guy who started this social network back in that they called coup don't know if you ever saw it but like coup was tiktok before tiktok it was amazing it was only in russia ukraine i only found out about it because i randomly met up with this group from the ukraine that was touring the touring silicon valley and i like hey come to our office i'll give you a talk and i at the end i asked him i was like what's the hot shit in ukraine that i should be knowing about i don't even know why i asked this question it turned out to be a great question but i didn't really expect them to have a good answer but they're like this thing called coup blowing up and this is like two years before tiktok and and so anyways he built that thing it it it didn't end up going huge i think because of other reasons like with russia and the way they control things but i'm like this guy is gonna only always do interesting things so last week i checked i was what that guy anton doing of course he's doing the craziest shit so now is doing he's like i'm trying to change the way people eat fruit just like what he's like you ever seen someone eat a mango cut a mango disgusting i know what he's the way americans eat mango this is hot terrible a mango is he's i can just goes on this list he's like mango are beautiful they're the most delicious thing and he he's basically he did this he has some process that cuts like the j part of a mango into a perfect little ball and so you get you look at it you're like that looks delicious and basically his mission is to make fruit more fun and delicious to eat by just cutting it better and you cut it better and you package it that way you you you store it in a certain way he's like i'm gonna reinvent the way people eat fruit and i'm like of course you are of course guy who created tiktok two years before tiktok is now gonna change the way i like mango but like you know sure enough like he he's gonna just keep doing interesting things he can't not that's an investor thesis weird shit that makes money it's amazing pump you are messaging me before this and you're like it's only an hour right and i was like yeah give or take and give or take an hour this is now our longest episode ever i think hopefully you didn't miss any meetings we're gonna we're gonna break this up into two episodes think i think we have to two episodes i think i think because the first thing was awesome and the second thing was was awesome this is a don't want people to miss the the second half the second half is maybe better than the first half well you guys are too kind i i listen every week i always enjoy listening to you guys give each other shit and then having a the funny well see the whole thing about humor is that you guys have your moments but i just enjoy what i enjoy when the when the guests come on and then you both you can just feel it like one time i heard joe rogan in the ball on on the podcast and i said to my wife i was like man joe rogan getting super smart but like this is like a ferrari and a corolla you know like literally like all was just like he was like hit his a game right and even joe was just kinda like tell me more like he just had nothing to really go and sometimes i can feel you guys are like man you guys are just absolutely killing it and then a guest comes on you're like tell me more and just let them ride so i appreciate all the work you guys are doing and you can me able little something to listen to every morning sam the funnier guys the one who didn't have to ask who's fun here to see that the general rule it's better than you don't know man who's u which which i'm sure the next question i don't know man i get text i get at least one text a month say i'm a hilarious have you guys done the analysis of who talks more it has gotta be mad oh i'm sure some somebody in the audience probably could do it and you can argue yeah they don't even need data science we don't need local target to know this one i they're talking and need interrupt more this is great what were you saying you're saying that every you should subscribe to our channel or they're gonna lose all their money or something like that some do agreement if you don't fulfill the gentleman's agreement like what's going on come on the gentleman's agreement and the ladies understanding but ladies understanding exactly what you guys should start telling people is like help me help you you know is just yeah get the get the video in the feed now that susan ceo of youtube has stepped down neil has stepped in he's bringing back all the distribution he's gonna send you guys to the moon so don't don't worry i wish i could be on a first name basis with these people i mean it's like what are you like a what you you like a call dave matthews band dave too well the the beauty is you just call them by your their first name and then they similar to rohan dm me you just think that your boys and so i'm hoping that maybe they'll turn our volume up a little bit on youtube your susan susan yeah the content is actually a really funny story very quickly oh what is what is the guy who he used to walk around with with the the clock what is that guy's name fl flavor fl so i'm pretty sure yeah i'm like almost ninety nine point nine percent sure was him i was working at facebook joe montana came to like do like this veterans event and so they need like an escort kinda like a almost like a babysitter for any guest who comes on campus so another guy was gonna take joe montana and they were like hey you are gonna go with fl a fl and i was like oh that sounds cool like okay so i'm like walking around with him kinda like nervous to talk to him because he's you know like a celebrity but also like is he cool as he not whatever do the event and at the end he goes y before i leave where's that instagram dude dad and i was like what and he was like the instagram dude and i was like and he was like the instagram guy where is he i know he works here and i was like do you mean like the founders and he was like yeah the tall one i met him i know him and i was like oh boy and so he was like i was like kevin and he was like yeah that one so i'm like i genuinely i generally know where the instagram team sits so like walk through the whole camp as right we get there and i'm like please don't be at your desk please don't be at your desk please don't be at your desk right never talked to the guy before and then sure enough he's like there he's like taller than everybody you could see him the second you walk in the door and i got fl flavor with me i walk over and i go excuse me kevin fl flavor he knows you flavors to play and you he he'd likes to say hi and kevin turns he's like oh man what's up like whatever and he's like super nice to him and fl flavor just goes what's up y you need to turn my volume up on instagram and i'm like i'm doubling being fired like holy shit this is so mad and and kevin was like a cons professional he's like let me go like introduced to our partnership team like whatever and i remember like on my way out i was like hey man sorry about that like did you know him he was like i think we met like one time like five years ago at a party but like sure and so i always just think about like yeah if ever get talk to the leaders of any of these products like that's the question that you got at go shoot your shot it's like y turn my volume up that's so good that's my new phrase that is do i look like a guy with a plan that those are just those are just epic alright fellas appreciate it