Noah Kagan: Notes From Meeting Peter Thiel and Books that Helped Him Make Millions

just started as a sign hustle so like i was in a basement in san francisco that was like y i i have a theory about what i think will be big and i wanna make three thousand bucks a month never was it like i wanna make millions of dollars or i wanna have a bunch of people or i i wanna have a bunch of customers how are you sam how are you today i'm good what are you doing well i just got back from albuquerque i was out with my family and then i just got home and then just like back to back meetings before we go to the trail of light tonight austin i know i neville and neil i've heard all about you guys are gonna have some exciting times tonight did do you weren't working today like a normal schedule i actually worked really best in airplanes so i i got up worked in the airplane lander then just been kinda back to back meetings now until six thirty do you enjoy having a normal schedule now oh it i had some trauma you know by the way like silicon valley tech worker trauma is like my boss didn't give me a twenty percent raise it was a ten percent raise and i am traumatized like whatever i i hit intel all i do was meetings and it was like and i was like this is the worst thing ever and now i'm i'm in all i do is meetings but then you know i i will say though today i was in some meetings and i was interacting and i was love you people there's some meetings where they suck and you have to figure out how to get rid of them or change the meeting and there's some words it's like wow we're business forward like there's things are happening that are are making shit happen in the business so noah you noah ka here founder of this company called apps duo which we'll talk about in a second but you basically like you you kinda i don't know do you say you stepped away you weren't like actively running the company day to day for like a couple years now you're the ceo again i so i was active for a long time now i'm not active it's amazing it's the best i don't know like i don't think i have it in me to at least not right now go back and do that do you think that you have it in you it's hard it's it's for i mean i was not working i mean it sounds such like an ass stuff but like i wasn't really working i was doing podcasts which isn't really working and i was making a lot of money and now i'm working i actually think i'll make the least i've made this year past what does that mean you're making a lot of money from what well ea so we hired this guy to run apps dot com he was running it and i was like oh let me make youtube videos don't do podcasts and like build send fox and experimental stuff and then i would get paid and then ama wanted to step out and to an adviser and i stepped in and now i'm having to do all his work i will say and then yeah i think i'll make less money this year two things with that one sometimes when you criticize another because i criticized aim a lot but just like productive just like you could be better you could be better like this yeah yeah jewish mother like noah why not your your your cousin he so you could've have been like your brother he's a doctor and one under being in his shoes definitely makes me respect him so much more but just a lot just a lot like he is a very impressive guy also you get a deal with me but i'd say the second thing is that the work now is harder it's hard but it's much more rewarding and so i even i was even writing that down in my diary this morning it's said dear diary hard work is rewarding no you have the weirdest so like you talk about having a diary you always talk about going go to therapy which is no big deal this none of these these all these things are great but you act like a tough guy sometimes and then you talk about like oh you gotta complain to your diary you kinda shot me i think you know i think of myself like a chinese dish i'm like sweet and sour pork you know like you're not really supposed to have pork as it you and then sometimes it's sweet and then sometimes you're like kinda sour it's just like it's a it's a mixed bag it's a variety it's entertaining you're since i've known you now for i think like eight or nine years and you've all you're you're you're cage with number so i don't wanna push you if you don't wanna be pushed can you talk about how big you guys are now given i mean in your youtube video i think you said a hundred million in revenue yeah we're not gonna hit we actually missed our goal this share it's gonna be less than that i well cage you you saw eighty in another video what i think cage because someone doesn't wanna tell you how much they make is a cage yes i don't think that's wrong though i don't like talk i don't talk about a lot of stuff either i say like round numbers sometimes or i'll just say i don't wanna talk about that alright how much did you sell the hustle for let's try these let's try kg numbers tens of millions of dollars yeah i mean and then how much do you make a year now working at hubspot well i get paid i got i get paid a whole lot of stock but my space salary i think is only two hundred and fifty thousand dollars maybe only well my stock is is significant i will say this is an you know and all these shows nowadays and crypto people they always like this is not financial i'm gonna give financial advice i buy a lot of hubspot stock i think it's one of most undervalued stocks in the market so dude by the way i when they bought us i think it was they were worth seventeen billion dollars or sixteen billion dollars in late january around when they bought us i think today it's forty so yeah what's gone up a lot so and and that's why when people ask how much we sold for i'm like well we sold we basically i got tens of millions in cash and then i also got hubspot stock but it's already it's it's up significantly since we sold so and i don't know like what price do you say and here yeah sorry i don't know and i don't love exactly what are we gonna ask who's wealthier you are sean oh dude i i don't i don't know i i i hear i'll tell you this did a podcast we did a podcast recently and i basically said my goal was to make at least twenty million dollars by the age of thirty and i did that dude sure you and that was the goal but you know like i i also don't i own assets now in the in the in some real estate and i own hubspot stock and airbnb stock but like use own apps which an eighty million dollar your business do you think you're worth two or three hundred million dollars i think absolutely worth somewhere between a quarter billion and a billion dollars isn't that crazy yeah i don't really look at that as part of my net worth i just look at my own it it's interesting we've talked about this a little bit like i think there's silicon valley entrepreneurs i think about your valuation of a company and then there's me and you who are normal people that are like what's your profit what's your revenue alright you're worth a million not like oh well the multiple is this if they say multiple they're silicon valley well i mean you guys would self or if you're if you're if you think you if you said that you're gonna do in the range of eighty million in revenue i mean i don't know how i would value that five times profits like or five times that number i guess right i don't know man it's a it's a little surreal i and i don't i'm not sure how different my life would be my brother did ask me is like if you were to sell you know how much would you sell for and i was like i don't know like if it was a billionaire that's like and i think people don't realize that like when mark zuckerberg i worked facebook and my or katherine like shut up talking about that but you gotta give him credit man and he turned out a billion dollar offer at twenty four yeah he's crazy like dude you took the first offers anyone offered you no i did but but like yeah it was like eager i mean i think i said love i say i would love dude no we we we had a few other ones but it was a good one and i knew that hubs i didn't know i was betting that hubspot stock was a goodbye and i think that i just like i'm not in suck i i i can't imagine working dude he gets do think his life is enjoyable i can't imagine it's enjoyable no i mean i guess he enjoys it but i i just think that that's held me that's where you i to have a virtual character enjoy it more for him yeah i don't know i mean like we we have you and i have this buddy we remember that one time we were out to eat and when you could say his i don't know you're he's your friend so you could tell me if you wanna say his name but he was like noah you're not growing at three times a year what the fuck you're leaving so much on the table and you're like dude i just went mountain biking like on a tuesday and then on wednesday i like did this and then on thursday i did this we're gonna make like eighty million in revenue this year and i own most of it i'm so happy and he was criticizing you as a friend and and i was like no is he is he crazy like you're you got this is perfect this is don't change this is perfect it's i i don't know i guess how you wanna live do you think that i guess that changes over the years right and and i think with what's that no no how you wanna live i mean think in your twenties you're just like scrambling and wanting to i from me i to prove myself i wanted to have status so i wanted to have it and then at as your thirties you know i'm still doing it one no i'm just like you know you you figure out more what really gives your fulfillment i think everyone's got their own stuff i think figuring it out for yourself is is a really tough thing you how many people work there hundred i think now we have a hundred and forty isn't that crazy it's yeah yeah it is crazy do you just said it was just started as a sign oh sorry i'm am i cutting you off to no keep going i want wanna hear just started as a sign us so like i was in a basement in san francisco that was like y i i have a theory about what i think will be big i wanna make three thousand bucks a month never was it like i wanna make millions of dollars or i wanna have a bunch of people or i wanna have a bunch of customers why three thousand a month a thousand was for living a thousand was for eating and a thousand was for saving that's funny that's almost exactly what i did to it was about that number did you what how did you think i gonna get i never thought that far ahead i mean i there's a go for it i keep interrupting you i'm sorry go ahead that's okay good man well like there's a there's a quote i've read by paul graham and it was like if you're so worried about what's gonna your company gonna be in ten years like you're never gonna make sure you can take care of your customers today and your business won't exist in ten years so don't worry about it and i just kinda i guess that's how that's that served me well i i think someone asked me they're like what did it take become a millionaire and i think one of the things for me was just like following the curiosity and i was like curious about all this stuff that like that we me and you get paid for yeah i yeah i'm in the same boat i think when having a hundred and forty employees would i don't know if it would freak me out but like i remember do do you still look at your payroll when you pay it every two weeks well so do you wanna just tell you the call i literally that's why i was late to the podcasts yeah because i'm you know we're we're taking the whole team out to costa rica and then we're also we're there was some spend for advertising there was like fifty thousand dollars and i'm just like yes we make revenue but at the end of day if you don't have income and you're not a fund of business you're gonna go out of business and so i think it's figuring out how do you create you know checks and balances so i'm not stressing about it weekly but there's definitely some net income issues that are keeping me up and then we're doing budgeting projections and the fuck thing budgeting is if you budget for a hundred million to a hundred twenty million whatever one fifty and you spend on that and you don't make it then yeah you get kind fucked too i think that you and i are similar in that like when when i see the so i'll like say yeah i wanna i think we can hit a hundred million in revenue and then they say alright well then we have to spend eighty million dollars and i look at it and i'm like oh my god what the hell what is this fifty thousand dollar expense what is this ten thousand dollar expense are you crazy we can't do this this is ridiculous and i get fearful i think that's a cool thing about having a guy like ea where he's a little bit less attached the this company called nerd wall you know nerd wall yeah tim chen gave me a little bit of money to start the hustle and it was his idea to give me money he was hey can give you some money to start this and i took it and they just went public at like three or four billion in valuation and i went to him one day i go tim we're spending eighty thousand dollars a month and expenses we're making more than that but like that's crazy he goes man it's just an excel number like it's just an it's just it's a spreadsheet you it has an input in and an output that's all you should care about you shouldn't actually care that it's eighty thousand dollars a month and i still find myself freaking out over that stuff and so for you let's say i i don't know i imagine your payroll is like ten forty fifty million dollars a year or something like that or your payroll and and marketing expenses i would i've flip out when i think about that because that's all basically your money whereas with ea or someone else you could be you could be more detached yeah i mean ea always carried and ea had i had a lot of respect in abe admiration for him and he's still very involved i think the way that i've tried to approach it generally is two pieces number one when does the red flag need to be triggered so every week we have a monday kpi sheet that they update our gross margin they update like customers and so there's color coding and it's like okay are the red flags and any of the numbers that i need to call shit on and i think that is that obviously reduces your anxiety and it helps you make sure that you're trusting but verifying i think the second thing around it is that how much if something is a profitable spend how much should you spend it depends on on it it all depends on on a lot of stuff but if you're spending money and you're making thirty percent profit go all in u hunt there's no budget it's unlimited and i think that's part of the question with the spending for me is that where our spending very profitable like is it in marketing is in development is in sales is it in the partner success team or is there things like that that should be more like aws where they're they're a little bit more scalable up and down and they're not as profitable so we need to be mindful of that how big do you think this business could get in like ten or twenty years do you have do you ever think about that i'm just trying to survive to to next year dude i mean we you know it's funny we've had as we've grown it's been interesting because have my youtube channel which is a very small team of like five people and then we have which is a larger thing i come back to the why right like on it's very simple we promote dope tools at great prices and we help people start and grow on online businesses and apps dot com and i think we have to come back to that because we were like we're gonna be in five like probably helping people grow and start all online businesses no i know you're gonna be doing the same thing but like was i mean we yeah we we we went to their the spreadsheet and we tripled numbers so silicon valley double double triple triple from in and out and we became a billion dollar company revenue in like five years or something like that i i think right now we're i candidly some of our silicon mechanics in terms of the scalable business means as we add partners do we get customers in this business grow the the how do i sit more clearly it's just not adding up like we added more partners this year and the proportional amount of customers did not come with that and so we have to work a little bit more on that flywheel which is i think that you much with trends so we had trends our subscription service we fucking crushed it during covid we crushed it and i think now sales slowed down a little bit i think it's cyclical but in this the like i bet if i had a bet covid was like the best times you ever had covid covid was great man i thought it was just great in general right i thought it brought there's a lot of good about covid just about humanity and not the death part maybe but like they bring people closer i don't know man i i've doing the internet shit since two thousand four i've never had a recession and it's not that i have some superpower but it's like well the only way to not have a recession to keep doing things that people want and basically i i think one of the other key things to kinda consider is how do you have discipline when times are good so you don't have to be as disappointment when times are bad and i think right now candidly with i think we're being a little bit on discipline with our spending and our hiring because times have been better and i'm trying to get that a little bit more tighter whether the you know the feature is good or not why your youtube team so big five people i don't even think that big mister v is like a hundred people no way you think he has a hundred employees at least fifty full time at least fifty full time in contractors yeah do you and are they what's his name the mister beast jimmy jimmy are they all like it's because it's like the jimmy show right so it's like whatever he wants you do do i think that'd be weird to have fifty employees or it's like hey guys next week i'm thinking i wanna do this the reason i would hate that is because then you've got someone like hey jimmy what if we had a rolling stone song in the background no i don't want that just like let me do what i wanna do please just like fulfill that it's a so we have a head of staff and one thing i've never one thing i hate i hate when someone's like hey can you remind me about this and i'm like no bitch just write it down i just told you you want me to remind you like do your job but i will say you know becoming ceo which i never called myself over the years until recently and is that there is times you're like y remind me and you're like oh my god you're never remind me her name's is anna who's head of chef she's phenomenal and then with the youtube channel i'm like hey i want you to come back with more ideas come go pitch me ten more ideas go and they come back and i'm like this is the best ever and so i think it is figuring out you know what areas you like to play and then being around people that you're just consistently impressed with but having people that'll do help you figure out shit oh god it's epic are you getting notice on the street no no not it just you don't it varies in austin you know it's kind of our so i think more people do it not not actually not you even though the channel gotten bigger we doubled this year i actually used to get notice a lot at the gym we guy hey bro i'm like hey i i don't know i'm always still excited when people came and come and say hi i just got did you get yeah weekly i just this like this morning just walking down the street and it makes me a little nervous but sometimes because i'm like thinking i gotta like like like like i love smoking cigars and i'll just walk around smoking cigars and i'm like i want people to see me smoking it makes me a little nerve know don't you think it's flattering i'm always so i always feel honored that like i feel i've worked on yeah something i've worked on has impacted this person and they're excited to to say hi to me like who who have you seen that you've said hi to that you're a little nervous the other day i saw logan and paul and i and i and and i respect logan paul and i said what's up and i could just i just pounded and i go and i just pounded it while i was walking by she's huge you're logan's huge was this here new york when i was guess it wasn't the other day about two or three months ago i saw him and i and i respect it i respect what he built and he was a big dude and i i i could've stopped and be like hey like this is what i do for living your brother was on my thing and i probably we probably got friends of friends but i was honestly kinda nervous and i just like just pounded it when i walked away well you i'm sure do a twitter thing like hey i wanna have logan on the show but anyways that's that's awesome man did you see my twitter thread about when i met the silk road guy no you didn't see that i posted the other day i was looking through old dropbox pictures and or go to my instagram or something else see it and i posted you're yeah i want you to see it it's me with ross a bright the guy from silk road oh i think i remember that story you posted about it yeah i talked about it like here but i was looking through old dropbox pictures and i found the pictures of us together and i originally took them down off facebook because i was nervous but now no big deal and i posted the pictures about how i met this guy named ross at a party and we just chi chatted and he got arrested like a months later and i note i recognized and i was like oh my god that was ross the guy we hung out with at the party how much better is your life now being rich it you you know that seventy thousand dollar that seventy thousand dollar study i've heard that i sounds like bullshit to me it's bullshit it's way better it's way better it's significantly better it's significantly better i think like i still worry about stuff and i was just talking to my friend about this today and i was like why am i nervous about this and that i told neville i go neville you get neville bought this eight hundred dollar vacuum and i was like i went to up to his house to borrow it and i was like i can't buy one of these it's eight hundred dollars too expensive and he's like why are you worrying about that i'm like i don't know it freaks me out i'm afraid to buy stuff so do have that yeah well i think two things are interesting one i went to the grocery store i was with my parent you know for thanksgiving my mom bought we get grapes i really into green grapes lately and she's like nova these are really expensive today let's not get them i'm like deborah it's your birthday i'm gonna treat you you get you get two of them so i don't i i have no problems anything that's health related i'll buy i don't know just i'm still mindful of i think what's fascinating on the other side of it sam is like mentioned it to you in text but you don't want me to talk about it which is like crypto and n crap which all these you know former shopify store owners now are crypto experts which is funny and i like trade and i'll make or i'll buy something i make like a hundred dollars or i'll lose like a thousand and i'm like not devastated what saying and they're like apps ts like we promote partners and you know we'll do like a million dollars in a day and the partners make like seven hundred thousand and our customers are happy to like well that's cool yeah it's it's funny things there's a phrase it's called the a penny poor pound rich i think right or yeah something like that do do do you we're talking about crypto but you don't actually buy crypto right you just bought a bunch at one time and you'd help on no well two things one thing i wanna highlight is a phrase at chad said my business partner at app dot com you like how i plug it he actually had this phrase that was great he's like no don't confuse the ant hills for the mountains i was like damn that's good and he's like when we're doing work at sumo and you know the different products we've built or you know whatever it is he's like is this a macro thing or a micro thing and let's do the macro let's get some fucking mountains band he's like don't sweat this bullshit stuff and i'm alright but that's hard man especially i was telling someone recently where there's all these productivity tools and everyone's always everyone's always like what's the latest i'm like you're not even doing anything like don't worry about the calendar of the productivity tool worry about just doing important things this is the best productivity tool the back of an envelope that's damn it's a good thing that's that job done well my crypto thing yeah i buy i'm a boring investor i think there's active income and passive income and i to focus on my active so i just started buying in twenty fifteen and i put on autopilot and i just bought it every month for the past six years and it's like made up a substantial i mean you've you've done well with it i think which is pretty great i'll tell you the number on that that i don't mind what okay i mean you can i don't i have to tell you it's fine i if i had a bet can i can i guess oh yeah here i'll be cage i would guess between one and two million not four million but it's four million yeah isn't that nuts i well it's always so funny because then you're like yesterday i was this week i was like disappointed and i didn't buy crypto punk when my buddy was like you should buy it by it dude but it was like fifty thousand dollars and i'm like that's fucking crazy to buy status and imagery and like it's an investment it's totally only investment when it goes up it's gambling when it goes down well that i i think are mostly fucking stupid oh don't get me started dude i just went on a deep hole you board or not dude i just got scammed i lost i'm like i can't i don't even know what happened for the past two i'm like yesterday i woke up at eight am to buy apes i just spent sixteen hundred dollars on apes what of the of the four million in crypto how much should you what what's your what's your basis there could pull it up it's probably maybe about half a million or four hundred thousand isn't that amazing is is that crazy yeah well i think i've always just it's interesting because i've i've always not always when i started using it i was like i can see why this is gonna be big but yeah the return on it as an investment is pretty insane that's nuts what else and like what else could do that like some public equity equities but you don't even an angel invest to you i mean angel invest could do that just takes forever yeah it's not i mean i think the best investment for everyone is their own business so if you look at it like active income like really creating your own company has pretty much the highest in multiples as i can imagine also you can control it if you can get something to work because most of them don't work that well yeah but you gotta a grind sometimes often i talked to this guy i was biking on saturday and the guy named nick he's like man i got a grind and i was like how much you i was like how much does he make he makes he's like sixty k and i was like why don't you you know doesn't i i'm judging how much he makes was like if you're in a grind at least grind something has higher upside for yourself because it's this the same amount of work like he doesn't work harder than me i don't work harder than him i just worked on something that from a strictly financial perspective has a better opportunity when you're working with ea amen so ea amen is was your ceo and good friend my good friend too when the how off how often would you talk to him it varied like it varied probably like once a week on fridays and then one a little bit throughout the week but they actually kept me out of slack they kept me out of everything because it's kinda like no he like my mom's at jewish mother it's like noah what's that on the screen what is that it's better to be out and i think that's probably the reason he wanted to step out and missus i don't think we're airing our private stuff wait he wanted to step out because you were nagging him yeah i think to some i don't think anyone feels really excited no one wakes up like excited you know unless it's some weird kin to be like oh what are you doing today do and i think there's was probably a little bit too much of that do you think that i mean i have i've had people quit for that reason i the same thing you and i are very similar you know that right and and i did the same thing where i'm like why are you doing this what's going on today what are you doing right now today like what actions can we take immediately to fix x y and z and i think you need both you need that urgency but like if you have a if you have a winner you do got let them chill and get it done do you think that ea whenever i have hired people to run stuff i always i'm i get i freak out i'm like this guy's is gonna when he finds out that i'm like profiting off their work like they're gonna bail this is so unfair and i hope they don't figure this out did you freak out about that i used to have a lot of that where i'd never would post anything on social same like i wouldn't post any activity i wouldn't post like my you know our youtube video was like hello me my first like i'd never say shit about that and eventually i got to a point where i was like well am i helping these people do their best lives at the company or and what can i am i do my best to pay them whatever they so like with ea i'm not gonna share his numbers but i asked i was like how much wanna make and he said numbers and he made more than that and so i never really felt this i never felt guilt because that guy got more than he wanted and i got well too but i i think within the company it's also people are free to work wherever so it's like how do you create environment that people were like y that guy's doing well and i'm doing well are you interested in any projects right now you had send fox did you shut down sun fox no we're still running send fox dot com it's a mailchimp alternative you think what do you like what let's have of projects are keeping you up the two things that i mean number one is apps absolutely so you know becoming more of a marketplace so you buy our sell software tools books and then the second stuff is like all this n stuff is mind blowing there's just so much so same i think like you you kinda sm and you know i at first i think that's what a lot of people have done with it the same with crypto and i was buying in twenty fifteen beer like i don't i don't fully get it there's something just interesting same when i joined facebook when i joined facebook we were like you're gonna go work at a social network okay same you know it it seems weird but there's just a lot of these really interesting use cases that i'm very tempted and i'm very excited about right what cases so some of the really interesting ones one is called city so basically everyone pulls their money and then they buy a city so they bought land in wyoming and now if you own one of the n or tokens within it you get votes to what they're gonna do with the city that's i find i find not really fascinating plus everything's public so you see who's voting you see what the votes are there's not much hidden there's other ones that i've liked one's called head dow it's kind of a stupid ass one i think conceptually it's really interesting i don't know if it's run but what i like about it is it is a fund where you buy their n entities so there's ten thousand everyone buys an n and if you hold the n entities and the fund goes and buy stuff and based on your n you get some return for whatever the the fund invest in so it's kind of like a index fund of crypto and other assets so i think there's just something what's the city one called city dow the who's who's organizing it city doe i don't know but it's all public for the most part but there's just there's so much stuff like that like think about this you can do housing so like right now housing is like noah owns a contract goes to the thing and all this well it's like you can have a house that shared by a thousand people or like roadblocks or minecraft in the game stuff is really interesting words it's like there's not like facebook and twitter that get everything or roblox it's like the creators and the consumers own the whole thing same with apps like how can we create it so the whole customer base owns app so they're incentivized even to start doing apps absolute anymore i guess it's kinda like owning a share in amazon but kind of on a deeper level are you have you ever like paid money to be part of like a membership group like a tiger twenty one or anything like that not yet i've always not yet so there's this thing called the what's it called friends friendship benefits have you seen that i've heard of it what is this and so i think the market cap is like hundreds of millions at this point and so it was basically a a a soho house online so like cool new york young people paid either five hundred or a thousand or two thousand dollars to be part of an online group that held meetups and it was like hot people and fucking young people wearing vans and supreme and shit like cool kids shit and it was you know you had to buy an n or a coin to join the the the community and you're incentivized to make the community awesome because people could sell their membership or like give it up and it could be worth more than when they initially bought in that and i think that's that's interesting there's just a lot of you i mean it's still so early so what's gonna like what's gonna like after the dust settles and the consolidation of all the junk because i'll you jumped in there's like all this discord discord you know it's like slack for juvenile to include it's so hard to figure out i feel so old it's not just that it's just hard to use and then it's just like so spam y like i go in it and they're like ben there's just a lot going on in the space and so trying to try not to rush into anything but just understand like alright i think assume what we did a good job where people are like i wanna start businesses i want tools and it's like how is entrepreneurship and startups selling stuff evolving and there's definitely something where there's so much money and there's so much speed being happening in this crypto space that i find i know at this current time i'm i'm like obsessed with the guy or the people setting up the town in wyoming how are they gonna make a profit how did they get paid so there's a lot of different dude there's all these diff i i fully don't understand every single one out there i'm not bothered but what they do is a few different things so one they could keep some of the assets so when they so they do a few different things when you mint the the tokens or the t's to give out you people buy into it so when i create the baseball pop cards and i sell it to you it's like one eth each to for you to buy i the the city dow keeps all that and then they could decide how much of that goes out to use to buy land they could say eighty percent by land or fifty percent they can decide that the second thing they do which is really interesting this is what's really clever about n nxt stuff is a lot of times on the secondary sales the original owner to cut you know that yeah i didn't know how much though so it varies so you can have a thing where if i create t's and it's ever res sold i get five percent of all sales forever so there's just a there's some really interesting things and then you can have people contribute more there's just a lot of variations and look in the end of the day people have had partnerships so this not brand new i think the the medium of exchange through crypto and all this stuff is creating new new opportunities would you you and neville and then a couple other friends went and hung out with peter till a few weeks ago and you could decide what you wanna size or not but one thing that i think i can say is i think he said this neville or something where he was like you know businesses are are neat but they die and he said something like a city any city that's ever been a somewhat major city it's never died before and apparently his obsession right now is on cities and i actually invested in this one company where they're doing gene editing you know what gene editing is not familiar it's like basically the the kinda explain like on five version is if you get a disease in your skin like goes away or something happens to your skin and it and it gets messed up gene editing you can tinker with someone's jeans and it will grow they'll grow back new skin whereas before they probably wouldn't have the issue with gene editing is that it's highly regulated by the fda and so like the future of gene editing could be like if your an amputee you can grow back a new leg or or you could grow new liver or kidney or whatever you know shit like that and peter t has the city in like bolivia somewhere in central or south america and he basically is like the founder of the city and this company that i invested in is based out of that city because there is no fda in that city which is like potentially horrible but it's kind of interesting he he said that he's in he's incredibly invested and interested in new cities and i think so i think that that's cool when i hear about all these new startup people like mark laurie the founder of jet he has a new cities i think these new cities are actually incredibly fascinating yeah i i'm i'm more interested in kinda like shared home ownership i think there's something just kinda clever like how do i own a building but there's a lot of people that own it and a lot of people can use it i think there's there's just like too many people that have too much house for just one individual so i like the the concept of that you think about meeting peter till you know what was it there's a lot of interesting things about him i think when i tweeted about this at no ka was that his he just uses like an iphone seven or like the what are we on now what i've got the new what is that number thirteen pro dot five what whatever and he's on a seven yeah and he had like you know crappy ass new balances he looked like he was wearing like mer socks and like you know like wrangler jeans i gotta give a fuck about it and you know what's he really you think he was wearing regular jeans wrangler just like north like kate jeans just like normal and you know but he also had three security guards and you know cameras and they checked the building and all that kind of stuff i think i i admired that he is a thinker and it made me appreciate you know i met him when i at facebook and i just still remember this story he like bought into our poker game and then had go meet with z and then he lost and then he's like hey can get my money back and then boss who's now like the cto was like fuck no yeah this buy back yeah peter did i was like kimberly really that also we would say no the guy who's in aren't only you know the main investor at the time i i think the other thing that i appreciate about how much decide how much was the buy in like ten bucks and he asked for it back yes funny i like what he's was doing dude it's like i if i was kinda surprised he wanted it back but then i like the boss like fuck you he tell he said exactly like that he said fuck you no no no he just is like no and then the funny thing about that i i like busted out i don't know me like twenty minutes later and i go outside and his like half a million dollar mc is sitting outside almost like alright alright what did he tell about do you remind him of of that story when you're with them recently i don't think you remembers me but yeah i i think the second thing about him is that he's a very i have i'm was just looking at my notes to them i don't mind sharon i think just like he he's just a deep thinker it it just felt like this guy's like really like him and and this is another you know him and like keith boy and all these guys there a lot of history readers they're like deep ass like reading boring fucking books about nineteen hundred history that i i just won't i'm not won't i just don't do and i think that gives that's where a lot of their advantage comes from so ben who's on this podcast has this podcast all that's on history and he just talks about historical figures and he does a biography on them it's incredibly fascinating and right before you came out we did a whole podcast on history and how you could just learn you could learn you you basically could just not make the mistakes that other people have made just from reading about them so it's kind of interesting keith or boy i don't know keith or boy other than twitter dude he comes off like such a jerk on twitter i don't know if i wanna hang out with him but i definitely would wanna meet peter till dude keith the legend i love me keith boy him david sacks oh i don't listen to all in show i don't even imagine the he he is he goal keith is sharp keith doesn't really respond to me he he doesn't respond to me as much anymore i've been tried to get him on my show on the no ka show and but he's just fucking bright man like the guy's very bright i think he's very astute i also like people that have yeah i think lately i'm more considerate and i like when he's at a level of wealth in the hundreds of millions that it's just like fuck it and he's yeah that guy guy's a dumbass san francisco bullshit i think this is correct and i i had a lot of admiration for anyone resident i like that too i just think that you could do it i don't think that you need to be polite all the time i'm an asshole too i just think that like when you are a boss and you're a winner and you maybe pick on the weak ones publicly in a in a rude in abrupt way it makes you look weak and soft and like a bully and i think that i that's i don't like how it comes off online but whenever i have seen interviews with him he seems incredibly kind not kind but polite i mean i think i i guess i also agree with his opinions so i the don't mind his approach like he's like elizabeth warming sucks cut miami is the best here's like businesses that i'm you know really bullish on there's that you like miami i'm more neutral to it i haven't spent enough time i seems appealing like there's really wanted to go to art basil like that's on a bucket list man to see all the cool art and and just like the vibe i'm not i i think every city got every everyone has a calling when they get into a city my never called me to live there when i visit but it's enjoyable would you stay i do intend to say in in austin for a while yeah i think it's also you if you ever feel like stuck in life like i was feeling a little flat and like frustrated lot of shit going on and you know i don't i wanted pity party and i think to take you know take a power party and you gotta get the fuck out so like i in albuquerque last week i'm gonna go to cabo this weekend gonna go to the bayer in la in a few i think you didn't get the fuck out sometimes i just changed geography so tell me about peter too what do your notes say i would okay here's a shocker this is shock to me same if you had five he's probably worth like ten billion i was like peter how much are you spending on longevity and he's like almost nothing what that's crazy i would was like that's spend everything on that i was like dude drop a bill give me a billion i'll solve it so he doesn't spend anything on longevity he spends very little he's like i do oh i don't wanna myself how wanna say some of this stuff he does some stuff like mail things to help but like very like i i thought he would be like yeah i have scientists on staff and i have an institute and i'm like you know and the other thing i was do you have a crazy diet and he's like he's like none of that really is gonna move the needle dramatically he's like i i eat dark i eat chocolate cake at night like he was telling us how his assistant hides food from him so he doesn't eat it when he travels and like you think the guy who's like this genius isn't which he is is like hyper discipline he's like no i'm not but he also knows he's not so he he accommodate so i think i was just shocked that he's not doing more longevity and i talked about on the podcast we talked about this guy named brian johnson who started brain tree and he's like a billionaire guy now and he's got a whole website where you can look at were you spending millions of dollars a year on his on longevity and you can go to his website and look at all the stuff that he's doing and it's incredibly fascinating and when i saw that i'm like this is exactly what you should do if you're if you're that wealthy and i'm amazed that peter t doesn't do that yeah that was shocking i was shocked did at low power he talked to you know because you kinda of you watch all these fucking videos and you listen to the podcast it's like but wake up at five and i have you know celery and i take a cold shower he's like no nah i like he didn't chocolate cake and he's you know and he was drinking wine and like he eat carbs and i was like he's a fucking human which made me have a lot of appreciation for him and i i mean and i felt like he also was very generous way more than i thought he stayed and talk to us the whole time like four hours without checking his phone without tweeting any bullshit and was very present which i i really appreciate it i read this book with him and ryan holiday and ryan holiday said something really i thought cool about him where he said basically if you ask him a question he'll say well you know some people believe this other people think that it's this this and this like he like looks at he looks at all sides and he doesn't actually always tell his opinion it's an interesting thought i think one the things he he had a lot of phrases do you wanna hear for you these like he just had these phrases i'm like man these are great phrases look ahead function i thought that was what's that man not basically like how are you looking when you're thinking about a decision how are you looking ahead to what the outcome could be and now i thought that was really clever like how much are you thinking further ahead on things simplification he's like everyone is a dumbass there's no everyone has like the same thoughts he's like i'm looking for anyone who has unique thoughts incremental versus monumental shifts got it baller that's a baller one that's a really good one companies are mortal cities are immortal yeah i was i was thinking about that and we i was talking to a neville he goes yeah peter told me about this and he and i was like yeah i that's and i was trying to think of like our city in america that is like just gone away and one that was at least a mediocre city and there's nothing well i think the thing that i never thought of that he had i was like whoa that's so interesting like we think a city is like he he was trying to talk about how cities you're kinda like a shareholder of a country and i never thought about that he's like you can you know remote work is the worst thing that can happen to cities did he have an opinion about that yeah he thinks places like california and san francisco or people can vote now with their feet and so the ability to work remote now hurts them yeah i understand and and i agree with that but doesn't he live in la yeah yeah that's kinda weird right i i admire that i think i get annoyed with people like i'm in puerto rico to save ford nichols and i'm like look yeah but you to puerto was actually not horrible but you have to live there yeah there's no fucking power for two weeks if there's a hurricane and look there's dude you're on the beach there's i love mexican foods it's got my great it's got a good life but i this at the other side of that is like is that how much does it worth to live a suboptimal optimal life and i admire that he's like fuck i'm in la i'm gonna live baller even whatever tax rate this is i read that is in that same book what's that ryan holiday book it's awesome do you want wanna tell you or not tell you no conspiracy or conspiracy theories or something yeah that's it is that what just conspiracy theory is that it conspiracy he's in that book he said that wherever peter till goes twenty four hours a day he's got a black mercedes waiting for him oh that that's what was outside the car that was outside the restaurant was in a black mercedes yeah yeah he had a disco ball inside it was crazy and he and i i think i'm almost positive he says it's running at all time he tells him he has they have to have it running that's really interesting in the book that's what he said he goes he has a mercedes form all the time and apparently he's got some residents or something in new zealand where i think there's also a jet waiting for like in a close vicinity wherever he's going and he goes just in case of anything that bad happens he could bolt new zealand i think the question that i'm curious that you got anything about for myself for you or for the audience is that if we had a billion dollars how would we live differently what do you think you do you still wanna do stuff right like you still want to work like work is fun people like go it's like dude sit around all day yeah how that goes fucking boring it's fucking lame not too much i think i would just do the things i'm doing at a higher level now i would like not worry about buying houses i'm not sure i dude i don't know the stuff is hard i don't think i would pay right a away to get out of it but i'd try to figure some something else it's it's tough i i got another like year or two in it for this this role then probably buy houses and i was just trying to figure out how it just the work to only do the area i want i would accumulate large amounts of land and i would create nice residents on all of them so me and my friends can just go and like it's so rare that we can go someplace and do whatever we want and that's exciting for me like that's what we we should do do we have any friends to have lots of land that we can go in shoot guns and drive motorcycles and shit and just be like twelve year olds that's what i told you i thought what you're gonna say i was really hoping sam our answers would be like you know i would take that billion dollars and give it out to the world well i'm not giving it to the world but i would like any anything like like i felt bad remember that tony hs so tony hs the guy from zappos you know that's sad it was sad and but when i saw that i'm like man i wish it didn't go that way but at the same time like he would travel with an entourage and i'm like that is sick as you know the substance of abuse things was bad but wherever i went i would just say crew who who's who's coming with and you and i have a friend this guy who started rent jungle or not rent jungle scout greg mercer and he bought these fancy seats to f one and i don't know how much it cost but i you this box cost fifty to a hundred thousand dollars and he was like hey do you want do you wanna come and i just had cheap o tickets and he he's like we we took care of everything and i was what i was like well how much is i'll pay you he goes was no cool man it's fun i like sharon and he brought me and it was awesome and he's told me stories about how he takes people to tell ride who just if he's doing cool shit he's like hey anyone who wants to come come with me and it sounds awesome that's what i wanna do i did i think i'm totally you this i did my will like a year ago and then it was kind of like it was surreal real i was like like guess i'm gonna maybe die one day but it it really inspired me to to live while i'm here and spend the money now while i'm here so even with my brother i'm like do you want to kill me and get the money now or can i just give you some of it now and it's just it's exciting to start thinking about how to live like you have the will and like live live like you're dead and and enjoy the money with friends like you're talking about that's a great way to approach it do you are you gonna have kids anytime soon i mean it it feels weird to make it a will where you gotta like give shit to your mom and your brother yeah my brother has a kid which i was like i guy's gonna get all this money like that's crazy it's not even yours yeah it's not even minor it's not his like it's not your kid i mean it just feels like there like i you love him but you're not it's not your your blood or you're you know it is part some blood i think jen saw yeah i i think i'll have kids i mean i maybe i'll go to sperm bank just donate a ton and then each of those kids gets like a mill maybe they get each one them gets a crypto punk yes shit we're gonna wrap up here in a minute but this has been a a me episode i actually think it's gonna to go over kind of well i i i i i think people are gonna dig it i you know i got nothing to say to that i i thought it's interesting i mean talked about a variety of subjects and then what what do people want out of the show what do i think people listen it's something to like entertain like empty calories frank business advice so there's a few things one i will say i'm shocked anyone listens but at this point we're at we're at we're we're like over a million downloads a month now which is crazy so some episodes like fifty sixty seventy thousand downloads which is pretty crazy two shockingly people find us funny like that's what the comments say which amaze me and three i would say sean's really good i think sean's is good i think a lot of people listen for him you're good too man it it's a good follow on i mean i think what it is is you're the only ones left podcasting like everyone gave up like a few years ago and you're like no one told you so you kept going it's been hard it is hard man but i think that's you know you my mom always says like you forget how hard the last lap is and i think sometimes when you just kinda push through and you're like oh i guess that wasn't so hard and the further way you get from it well did is youtube be zero you think it's hard you could you could what define easy right is the bullshit answer well yeah it's challenging in it's in a different way i think the intimacy of an audience is really high with podcasts like they're really spending a lot of time with you youtube it's harder to be successful on it i think it's harder i don't know harder but the year is a broader audience available for you to reach so that's why i spend all my so why i stop podcasting more or less i still have my show the noah k but you know of my content creation audience building ninety five percent of that's in youtube world doesn't are hard for you able to do it like them can't just go it's so hard it's so you put out a video like well all of it takes forever is just like i think you know the bullshit answer answers is find the thing that you could work forever on my video that i i made my first youtube video i'm gonna start doing one a week got three thousand views baby which one the tricky one no the the real estate one about my project how many four point thirds thousand views two point four thousand that's good man look dude i didn't even remove the des script logo at the bottom because cost twenty five dollars and i was like i don't know if i'm gonna even do this next next month did you edit it yourself yeah good for you there's there's no editing there's just like a splice clips together how was it for you how was this experience student it sucks i hated it but i it's it's cool to see the result like i understand why it's you know who the best at at here's the best youtube youtuber i think out right now he's he's out of this world nick bear oh dude love nick bear nick bears the best youtuber up been seen lately the other day he put out basically a documentary and he's doing like one or two a week he did a documentary in the lead one hundred this hunter mile race he did nick bears the most impressive youtuber i've seen lately do agree have you had him on your show yeah but it was a little bit more it was before he was really famous nigga just dope and he's just like a good dude and like you when you find out he like started his business at four am when he was in on and on base in korea they're like damn that like i'm not surprised when people are successful i'm like oh yeah put in the work and you stuck with it for a long period a time that's it did you meet him in person yeah so awesome it is he just yolk yeah yeah i'm gonna i think wanna work out with them next month or in january oh you just up with him yeah i i think part of it is like you know i've i've said this before like most of my not worth this is from who i know and so nick i i gotta meet him and help out help his stuff he helps me out but there's certain people that you see like nick there that you're just like yeah man i hope you get there he's getting there obviously but there's just people you wanna see succeed i think people don't wanna see me and you succeed sam but they we they just can't stop us some dude so like no why do you say that i wanna see you succeed but i think it's just like a stop you you and i are are very punch that's why we do boxing we let others people have a chance to punch us let me ask you your last question what what what can i learn from nick from you knowing him oh i would definitely have him back on the show when he was on the show he was super like almost naive like it felt like like not but that not a bad way where he was like learning as we were talking to him like he acted like he was unaware of certain and i'm like dude i know you know about this but you're just like a sponge and you're just trying to get me to tell you everything so you know he was just interesting he just felt like a student yeah that's i mean that could be his i don't know if he's trying to be strategic about that i think that's interesting i don't know i i guess with nick i'm impressed his involvement from like someone who was a marine or i think he was a ranger to a business operator also he's kind of in a in it's somebody extent comm space right like the sugar powder yeah the powder that get everyone gets from the same place where you put a different sticker on it i think i've been impressed specifically with nick how we evolved from like you know i'll be straight like a meat head jo lift to like one a content creator at like an elite level from the storytelling i think it's just his physical fitness and in a is really well rounded so well rounded man who on earth can weigh a hundred and ninety five pound and you know squat five hundred pounds and run a three hour marathon it's so interesting there's a lot there's a lot of good youtubers out there man it's just unbelievable how much great content is being created who do you like we'll wrap up with that who do you like let's look at my home homepage so obviously no okay kaye colin and sami are studs i i love colin oh dude do you know who's the best content andrew call channel five he was the all gas no breaks wait what and oh he is dude watch the chet bake so ant channel five with andrew call watch the watch the pickup artist boot camp or checking yeah this guy he used to be part of like a business that he bailed on he was i think for vice or something like that all gas no breaks yeah yeah he's sick calling and sami or sick on on just specifically on creators i like to watch dude my weird freaky fetish lately is just i love watching like outdoor survival same which ones who's the guy in ohio dave canterbury so i watched dave canterbury yeah think just writing all these down dave cannon barry yeah dave canterbury architectural digest is gangster i love seeing like celebrity home name do you like primitive technologies i think i've seen them i think i'm pretty aggressive about unsubscribe for some reason i unsubscribe from them i see primitive dude i'm looking at dave kent he looks amazing this is exactly how i want my guys to look have you watched the show alone no oh oh on hulu yes were there hulu have you had like the with the guy that looks like like he like he's wearing like bare skin around he it was like a native american the white dude but he's like actually don't know where he is and there's another guy he's caves of missouri there's a bunch of weird ass people in there but dude it's epic so i i definitely would recommend alone so i like all the survival stuff that i watch a lot to do this is the weirdest one i watch a lot of squash videos i probably wash like like it's on right now wash this while you're talking to me sam i have it on in the background like hydraulic hydraulic press no squash like the game like the british gabe why are you watching that i just leave it on it's just like white noise to put on the background so i watch a lot of that on youtube that's kind of a lot of that's the main thing like outdoor survival architecture of course neville and yeah i about it alright well ben what do we think what what what are you gonna say well i can i i'll tell you some i'll tell you another good book at man got tell a weird one of people dude i've reading all crime books so like like calling like a real murder mystery well yeah i like that but like i just like one on nine eleven another one favorite this year favorite book this year okay you're gonna like this one because you do this it's called travels with charlie in search of america john stein in nineteen thirty and john si you know famous author and he was like you know i live in cape cod and i'm rich now i'm in my sixties i've been reading writing about middle america for the past fifty years and i'm so out of touch right now and he just drives his pickup truck around america and just talks to people and writes about it and it's amazing you know who the lieutenant dan is and forrest gum yeah yeah he he's the narrator of the audiobook that that's a good one and then empire the summer moon you'd like that one it's about i heard that one what's the coma indians and they're they're just nutty like the t ins were evil and the indians were evil to each other the indians and the t ins were just like it's about how they just destroyed each other and then finally the operator which is basically the guy who killed bin laden and he like tells the story of finding bin laden and that was some of these military books are kinda weak not that one was this is spectacular yeah i mean he talks about like finding he he he goes in def about hunting down bin laden and and shooting him in the head like it's intense alright a few questions here one do you get books from the library at all no but either you or neville have been bragging about how amazing it is how a huge library guy there's a chrome extension called library it's called library extension that'll show you if you can get digital or audiobooks for free and it shows you when you go to amazon so you just put an austin library did i use all time how do they make money i just donate i don't know how they actually make money okay but i thank you for those books dude yeah library extension you just add the awesome library one book i read recently dude that is so good i think you really enjoyed it it's called free country it's two guys in europe who backpack who who try to go from the bottom of uk to the top of uk biking and they just start in their underwear that's all they start with is it amazing wow what yeah so they start at the bottom of the uk in their underwear that's it and they have to get to the top uk on bike in three i mean it's really good it got like crazy good reviews audio or download or audio or normal i think the audio is good alright i think i i got it at the library for free oh and it's kindle unlimited it's free on kindle dude hell yeah alright i'm i'm gonna do that any other ones that one was awesome i really enjoyed that i don't know if you wanted more yeah see dude we're reading the same travel so i'll give you another one then little golden america in the nineteen thirties two russian journalists from the ussr we're we're welcomed into america and they just traveled for four months are all over america and they're like you know it's pretty crazy in america and they just like you did explain from their perspective what america is about they're like in america everyone's so optimistic for example we met these guys it's cool and it's no one knows about it in america it's one of the most popular books in russia in russia you book jew what else oh do you some other good ones did you read out the dude you don't ryan holidays book list is really good his email list his email list he just recommends books it's he he could consumes so much i don't know dude he's like like it it's like ten a month it you there's no way he he does an audiobook no i think he reads he's probably i it has to be paper and if it's not this like certain density of organic paper i won't read it he once said if you're not taking notes then you're not reading effectively i think that's true yeah but that's like a i mean i'm not gonna take notes on like killing up bin laden i don't think that but most of books on kindle or physical i either highlight and then i'll reread them yeah but dude if i'm just listening to like a book like about these guys walking around their underwear trying to like get from place to place i'm not gonna like you know or like fight club i'm not gonna like write notes any other ones dude trevor noah book i was like i don't care about that guy everyone talks about that book it's a it's just just a really well written book it's well it's like david go book i'm like alright david you're gonna yell at me you're really hardcore i get it you could do push ups or pull ups that's great his book if you haven't read david's it's like everyone talked about it's honestly if a not one it's very well written and too it's just a great story it's just audiobook book is cool too yeah and the wright brothers i got that during i read that one recently amazing that was awesome i drove the dayton ohio after i read it because it was so good oh that's good did you read million little pieces no what's that one i actually think you'll like that one it's about drug addiction fuck you no but it's a true story that's the crazy part i really enjoyed that these are just ones from this year alright i'm gonna read wait i think this guy james frey million little pieces didn't need it's he feelings for a bunch of stuff yeah he actually wrote a few other books and then there's some like drama about him oh they say that he lied about his book my milk my yeah the apparently he it's made up there's debate about that so it seems like for the most part a lot of it is not made up and there's just a few pieces that are i remember this because he went on oprah years and years ago and there was this big controversy well so she touched it on him and then she actually apologized i believe because i got you after to read the book like is this really or not really i can't believe it that's how crazy it is yeah alright i'm gonna read it this is good this is the best part i'm gonna read all these things i mean i i i could i i try to walk a lot so i listen to all these audio so i'm gonna i'm gonna download this one a million little pieces i'm gonna get the the guy's doing their underwear thing and i already installed the library extension bro game over on this little golden america did they have an audio or just paper back you could do a paper back or you can there's free pdfs online do you did you see the description of it it's interesting there's like no reviews of it but in the first page they go we translated this into russia and yet no one or into english and yet no one in america knows about this however in russia everyone reads this book in schools like this is like the kids summer reading for schools it's like very very very popular you see it yeah how did you hear about this good reads recommended it to me because when i was reading the in search of america the john signed book i loved that that was one of the best like i it was like i got addicted to that it brandon popped up on things recommended and it had five out of five reviews five out of five stars on on good reads and it had like three thousand reviews but when i googled that i couldn't find a thing about it so i was like this is kind of intriguing did you look at it good reads i didn't not think it's so funny good reads i saw someone talk about this and i maybe it's it was like the site that hasn't been updated from like nineteen sixty but it's still dope it's still like a just like there's nothing better yet it's badass the guy who started it spoke at health name otis chandler and his grandpa started the la times and otis sold to amazon for like a billion dollars i think either i think it was a billion or a hundred million but he sold it to him at like ten years ago or something like that so we just knocked it out the park do you ever you ever blown away by like how much awesome books are there that we don't even know of like this book existed i never even fucking heard it and it's got reviews and i'm like i not know that yeah and i've always thought i wanna read all this but then you know i started thinking one time i i listened to like thinking real rich on audiobook and i love the narrator and i like i wanna remember those narrator raiders or the the audio guy i wanna remember his voice because he's so good and i looked at what else he had done and he's read like a thousand self help bucks and i'm like wait a minute you read all these and yourself if fucking i can make fifty bucks an hour read these damn books what the hell man this is not effective and so after that i i almost quit reading business book or self development books entirely just boring i'd rather read like biographies or like i'm reading this book this running book right now out of thin air the best right i just started as it's really interesting i'm mean like i i i guess outdoor activity books so well out of thin air that's not that's a different one wait out of thin air oh you're thinking of the one about the guy in alaska who what's out of thin air oh it's about the kenya yeah the guy like goes and runs with kenyan i think you're get into thin air the john k one which is also awesome but okay someone gifted me this out of thin air book and i wasn't sure if it was that good is it amazing so if far pretty interesting i mean the i'd go free country that one is like i didn't wanna read because i didn't want it to be over alright i'll read it alright i gotta a rock this is good