Laird Hamilton: The Big Wave Surfer Who Built a +$10 Million Business Empire

i used to use the guilt from drinking to make me feel motivated about training so i'd be like oh i can drink pin noir cup you know bottle two bottle three bottles no problem dinner go to sleep wake up five am train like an animal what's the problem no problem problem i don't your problem you could train hungover over oh yeah like an animal yeah i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a day's off yeah man for live we just we get things going and i can kinda fill you in you probably don't know anything about who we are do you no but that's not unusual i i don't know much about anything really good hey save i mean i've i've i've learned about you i mean i've you're i've i've this podcast is called my first millions so basically i owned a fairly successful and big media company that i sold and one of our products was this podcast and it's listened to by millions of people a month and it's mostly a business podcast you like a i'm a health nut and a health nerd i was a former college athlete so i'm gonna talk to you all about like layered super food and some severe your businesses and stuff like that that's where we're gonna spend most of the time but the reason why i wanted to have you on was because we have people we normally don't have gas normally it's my c sean is not here and someone was asking i was like who's your dream guest and i was like man lair hamilton that's why i want and they're like why and i was like he i had my description as to why i liked you best but you said it in another interview a while back you said something like your life is like a wheel and like business is one spoke health is another spoke relationships is another one and like there's all these spokes and like they all have to be nice in order to make this whole wheel work and was like oh man that describes best why i like you because you know i i like making money i like being fit i like having a lovely lovely relationship with my wife i like doing all this stuff and so i'm pumped to talk to you this is i'm normally never nervous to talk to anyone but you're like when the first maybe you're you and andrew sc made nervous to talk to because like i like admire you guys and i look up to you guys well i appreciate that thank i'm i'm i'm thankful for that i was talking to some friends telling them how i'm pumped that you're coming on and most people know who you are but then for the people who don't i was i was like well you know he's done a lot of so i even know how to describe you that i was like he started as like a surfer and then like a big waves surfer then did a modeling and i i always told my friends i'm like he's a hun you probably recognize his face he's he's a hun his face all like you because you're you you you like represented this qui quintessential surfer but then you evolved where you and your wife now are are quite popular because you guys have this almost zen like attitude and so a lot of people like like me i i turned to you just to hear like what's your advice on i'm living you've also started layered super food you have another fitness brand what what do you like what would you say is like where are you now and how do you kinda describe yourself in in a sense or two as to kinda of your professional existence i always you know because i because of hawaii the way we grew up there's was a lot of you know there's a there's i would say segregation but i think there's a lot of just a lot of friction because you have all these different cultures and and i so my favorite description is somebody goes well you know like where are you from or something and i go well i'm a human from earth so i'm a human from earth and if you're something different then when then we should probably sit down and have an incredible conversation but otherwise let's get past that and then get into like you know what are these other things that we do you know and i think it's i think none of us are what we do we we are we are who we are and then we do these other things but i do i do like i mean listen on the water sports and and and fitness and and and health and wellness is you know i've kinda made a a a career out of that and so i do like i've been fortunate to do that that's then been a been a beautiful thing but i mean i am concerned about you know being healthy and and living a healthy lifestyle and you know being a good example for my children being you know having a good relation relationship i just i just know i feel best when i'm when i'm when i have all those things yeah i always knew you i mean i i remember watching the deck was it writing giants yeah and a few and a few other movies with you in it and that's how i knew of you and then i learned about the layered super food the creamer and i was like oh this is great so i've been a i've been a customer for years but i never would have paid you as like a business guy i remember seeing you maybe it's on some talk shows or something like that where we had this like electric yeah golf or golf board yeah the golf board that was that was awesome and i'm like well he's just like tinkering and inventing and then i started looking at and then i saw larry foods go public and i was like and i i remember reading the report i was like oh shit like we grew i think when you went public i was doing like something like forty million a year in sales and i think it went public at a four hundred million dollar market cap i was oh man i never would have pictured this guy as like doing this stuff what what kind i i know that it was you you were just tinkering with these mixes and a buddy of you a about of yours was like alright let's actually do this thing but did you always kinda consider yourself interested in going into business or is that just what the hell let's just try it no i mean listed early in my career early in my career in surfing i i i just i i looked at like you know where the money was like where's the money in surfing and and at the at at the time it was in the apparel it was in the apparel business and so i went at kind of i would say eighteen nineteen i got exposed to the apparel business went used to work in downtown los angeles in a in a in a a sweat shop learning from a korean guy that came to america with thirty eight dollars in his pocket and had a ten million dollar sweats shop business making denim jeans and kinda learned the whole cut and sew garment business and re out you know and and got to exposed to every aspect of it you know i i think because of the because i didn't ever really participate in the conventional aspect you know the tour of surfing i was always kind of you know kind of rogue in the sense of i focused on big wave riding i wanted to be a big you know i wanted to kinda i thought that that for me was the that was the thing i was intrigued by that was the thing i was best suited for there wasn't a lot of ways to there wasn't a platform let's say for me as an athlete it wasn't like you know nba or nfl where you got this huge platform you go play your wife was was volleyball so you guys were both like you you're both like giants and and small fields it's which i i always i'm like dude that's crazy they turns not even just surfing but big waves surfing which is still cool but it's tiny oh yeah volleyball and i'm like i know both of them i knew i knew you both individually yeah well we had to and one in i think that forced us to be more creative and you know and and do what we had to do i was say subsidize it you know like normally you know you subsidize your surfing with maybe some excavation work or something you know you do some other you you do another job surfers go work at restaurants they i mean they do whatever they can so they could be in the ocean like arnold sc or laying bricks exactly exactly so you just do whatever you you you do to to subsidize your your love but and if you can try to take both of you know if you can turn your work in you know your or your passion into your work that's a beautiful thing but we've had to be creative i think both gabby and i have have always had to be creative in our career just because we were in such niche sports that it forced us to be a little bit more entrepreneurial in general we just with our you know it's whether we were you know a she modeled i modeled early on i mean i i did some film work i mean i i do we do what we had to you know we do what we have to do and then that kind of you know and we've had sponsors and i think in in in an evolution of an athlete you have a tendency to depending on your brand and and and you're you know and what you've you know what you've done i think you evolved into wanting to kind of be your own sponsor at the end right and and and and and we've been real selective and i mean it's it's been i think that that's been a it's contributed to our longevity but it's also been something that's en inc us a little bit because we just won't do you know we won't just endorse and promote any anything for money it's just we've been pretty cautious about things that reflect our authenticity things that are real to us and so you know and i think that's what led us to a lot of these these you know the situation i with layered super food especially like i just wouldn't do other you know energy drinks and other stuff that just isn't good for you you gotta promote good shit no exactly and and and and and i and you know and so i and i'm because of my surfing and and some of the feat that i've done and the innovations i've done i have some people that look up to me and so i look at that as a responsibility to conduct myself in a certain way i wanna do that anyway for my own thing so it's a little selfish in one sense but but you know but the like like again layered super food or xp t or you know leaving layered apparel these are things that you know reflect who i am the the and and you know it's like not every single not every single you know everything in layer super food is something that that i love i don't make you know i don't want every flavor because i have to make flavors saw like an interview where someone was like so flavors do you like you and you're like i drink this one and they're like i like this one you go i hate that one or something like yeah gonna that one i don't i don't drink that one i like this one yeah but you have to make stuff for people you know you have to make stuff for everybody right right what i mean for me i feel like the more successful the company can be the the more impact i can have and are those the three like major revenue streams which is the super foods it's xp t and clothing that like your three main things yeah i mean i'm always doing other other stuff too i mean i i do i do i do speaking stuff you know we have other sponsors that we work with and so you know the like just like what that be the media category yeah there's media there's yeah i have a farm i have a farming project right now that i'm working on as well and then and then and then there'll be some the you know we i work with ga gavin and i work with land rover i work with fremont watches and so i have some there's media and then there's like some other sponsorship endorsement stuff that continues on which you know i think i think part of the reason why that stuff continues on at this point in my career just because first of our our our authenticity and i'm continuing also to pursue athletic achievements as well so i'm still doing that that stuff and so that that kind of so there's you know again there's a lot a lot of spokes in the wheel i remember i saw this interview where you're were talking about like taking the company public and you're like we got to go there and ring the bell and it was just so much work and all this paperwork and i'm shocked that anyone could do this and at first you guys were flying high things were going well as of late the stock has been crushed but do you like what what are those emotions going through like right now when it's gotten crushed and do you regret taking it public because it it seems like a good business i mean you're you're doing good revenues i think this year the growth it didn't work out this year i just read one you guys most recent reports i think you changed ceos what what are the emotions now where things are changing i mean right now it's a tough world where we're not alone i mean in so that's kinda nice it'd be like if it was everything was booming and then you were having trouble you might be a little bit like well what are we doing wrong so there's some of that i mean i wouldn't change a bit of it i mean i i i could say listen coming from my background and and my my relationship with like being patient and you know crashing and racks and all my like all the stuff that i've gone through hard to i'm gonna be hard to face you know what i mean like i'm i'm i'm i'm my family's healthy i'm healthy we're we're good you know it's like i tell gabby i go you know we were good we're good now we're gonna be good like it's all so you are you guys having like conversations when you're like did you have a significant amount of your net worth tied up into the company i mean hey well it's i mean listen this the stock value alone it was was substantial so it's but again it's counting chickens before they hatch and so and i'm that's not the that's not my world i'm not that's not i'm not that guy like i'm not that that because i realize that life is so temporary that if you think you can somehow end that and that you really don't have the kinda control you think you have everybody i mean so my my my the university i went through the university of you know a big wave riding or the university of the ocean or the university or the hard knocks i i you just have a different perspective so i i i've been you know of course would i love the stock to be going through the ceiling absolutely but i wouldn't change going public i i wouldn't go back and redo it because the fact is is that that experience right at the end of the day that experience of going through that process doing the road show doing ninety zoom one hour zooms over a three week period all day long every day and just all this stuff that we did and and and and just just that knowledge you just can't unless you've been through that no no people can't tell you can't talk to you like they they can say oh yeah what's you know or i know what it's like well no you don't know what it's like unless you've been through that process and and and so you can't really appreciate it and and so for me i feel like that was an incredible school of not of and and an experience that you know if there's anything you can take with us i there's a great friend of ours who's who's a woman judge in the from the south and she always says to us invest in experiences because if there's anything that you might be able to take from you when you do depart this earth when you die you know it's it may be that i mean you're not gonna take anything else so none of this other stuff's coming with you not the value and the money and the car house and all the stuff that none of that stuff's coming with you the the only thing that's gonna come with you is the possibly could be these experiences that you've gone through and so for me i feel like what an incredible thing and we're we're the c the new ceo we have and there is incredible this is only it's a little bit like because and i've and i've done some pretty brutal endurance things in my career and and and i and i i know when we need digging deep and and you know that's where all the that's where all the the building comes from right that's where all the character building and the polishing of the stone happens in when it's when you're you know down and so for me i'm just like been here before probably be here again no problem i mean here we here we go so it's for me i feel like this is this is a little bit more like the rough like the i would say the refining you know like you're getting refined right now and and so it it's only gonna help us make everything tighter make our you know what we need to do better because if you're not getting bumped a little if you're not getting pushed then there's no re you know i give the i give you an analogy of a of like a professional team you know you have this beautiful team that you built and you go and you have an incredible season but then you lose in the finals and then the and then the next season they break the team up and they're like well you could have easily won but you just you just you broke it up because you and and the winning and losing it's it's it's i mean the difference is nothing the difference is big double yeah yeah so so yeah i mean it's i mean my biggest thing is just i i i need this business to be successful because the stuff's awesome i need it i i need it i need it for my friends i need it for everybody who loves it i like so that's the biggest you know that's our biggest our biggest you know for me that's the most important thing is that that we continue to to supply the people that we do and we continue to getting new people in there and and you know i think right now everybody's getting squeezed you know i think there's a big squeeze on the whole you know on the whole system so the you know that's i mean this is this is when the this is when the tough guys get going this is when the you know and our and and and and our new ceos and in you know a hundred mile he's a mere like he's a long distance runner so he knows how to he knows how to grind so good well you i read the story about how you used to make this stuff and you're using turmeric and everything you're just making us making what is now layered of food at home how much capital did you invest to get it store ready and about how long did that take it was pretty pretty it didn't take i mean we you know the the unusual thing about the business was is that i mean it could have been couple twenty thirty grand or something like that at at the most and that but we went online first that's why it was really not didn't cost as much to start we made you know a powdered version of my original recipe and then and then about the third or fourth rendition through that we they're looking like you're mixing like coke you just got like you probably just had a subs scales at home and a little like bag and then yeah exactly one then yeah and then i'll in the lab well this this is it and then and then and then and and and my friend that i was working with paul h was like a start up a really and i had been working with him on the golf board on another project and and so you know we and we had what we did we just started online which was fortunate like remember your first years of sales what's up do you remember your first year's sales oh i don't i don't probably i mean i think it happened fairly quick but you know fifty hundred grand or something like that i don't know something pretty quick but it's but it happened real quick it was like you know right away it was like okay five ten fifty know it was like we just marched into you know probably a hundred hundred hundred hundred fifty something like that within or even even even a little bit more after probably a year i mean if you counted like making samples you know playing with it getting every you know packet getting some packages of it going online getting the people that whole process if you get to count that within the year yeah something like that nothing nothing quick but i mean the traction happened quickly because good stuff people put and and and i was able to tap into kind of a smaller group of you know friends i would say friends and following that that was available to us and that that helped us i think it would have been a little different if we were just starting from scratch with no with no kind of nobody there to do stuff with and we got a lot of and we got a level of response to we were we had a real inner i would say a a a good group that was interactive like they would oh try this one we don't like that one you know that was engaged with us that helped us and that was a big piece of it that we had customers that were kind of more engaged with helping us kind of refined things i think that was it that was that was also very useful in in the beginning well you timed it perfectly so like right now we're in the thick of like a health trend like you know partially because like you go to my instagram feed it's like you and like all ripped dudes like you know they're like an ice baths now which i do and you know it's on knees over toes like it's like we're in like it become cool now to to be healthy and like but you were talking about and i read how you were like dude we've been using guy for twenty years guy is popular now you've been doing a lot of stuff that is like considered eccentric twenty years ago which is now not quite normal but it's more normal you also said that you're like i i'm i'm obsessed with ideas and like figuring out what can be what's gonna work what's not gonna work were there any other ideas other than some of the than what is now super food was there any other ideas that you were tinkering with like man i think this this thing that i'm doing on a day to day basis or this food i'm consuming or this trend that i'm or this thing that i'm doing now will become more popular and i should maybe pursue that well i mean listen stand up pad i mean i don't know if anybody knows what santa pad is but i start i mean i i did that for eight years alone like that that thing and that thing was the fastest growing sport in the world for a while like it's it's everywhere in the in the whole planet i mean as far as a sport itself as a discipline i mean foil foil is another thing that i i was doing like we the first guys that really stand and and then we the first guys that ride that you realize that you could ride ride waves with foil and now it's you got foil magazines and there's ten different disciplines and for those people that don't know what a foil is it's an airplane that rides underwater that that is attached to a board above so you're and i know people have seen them you know at this point you've seen some either an electric version or some i mean that's what the going yeah america's cups and and all the boats have gone that that direction as well i mean most of my stuff has come in sport i have you know i i mean you always have some funny ideas that that you know that the that there's a there's gonna be three customers or maybe four you know i mean expertise is another a big you know a big i mean there's some stuff in i have this pool training system that that i've been working on for a while that has is still hasn't really gained traction for just be i mean it's gaining traction but again but the breathing part of it i think you're feeling like a breathing part on the app and like i know a lot of people who do that that that i mean it it is what's the app yeah app how much does that cost or is it all free no you there's different pieces of of the app there's different stages of it you can go to x p t life dot com and then if you want the breathing app you know there's different there's different and i don't know exactly what they're charging for the app that the app right now because we've just came out with a specific breathing one but there's there's a bunch of different you know there's different levels of of your participation and we do is we do a camp too we do like a a two and a half day seminar but you know what you know what have i i say about innovation and ideas is you know it's just a new application of an old idea i mean you you think for for anyone to have what they would think would be an original thought at this point in humanity is insanity like they how how could you have an original thought given the fact that there has been billions of minds over you know hundreds of thousands of years that saying and and and and also even in civilizations that we don't really even know anything about so the thing that you'd have an and you you know kind of some unique thought i think it's more about these hybrids these come come combining existing things maybe some new materials kinda or some new stuff changes the way i mean listen might my whole thing around like for example with lea with super food is really based on using plants in our on the whole form and not separating and taking you know elements out and concentrating it or trying to figure i mean a lot of that's based on really trying to figure out how to get a patent and control and own yeah i feel like listen nature made it perfect for your body why don't you use it in those ratios and and it seems like whenever we don't do that as close to nature as we can where there's always a problem there's always a problem whenever you're whenever you're giving the system something that it can't really relate to and i think that that's you know i mean at least in in in in in the super food side of things that's a big that's kind of a philosophy that we use to help govern that that that brand i mean part of the reason i think there's such a crazy health thing it was going that way anyway but i think people started to realize after the you know i mean since the pandemic happened and that the that being healthy is really an advantage you know and i think because we have so much like like we're in somewhat of a health crisis just given you know diabetes and obesity and just all this stuff that's that's been happening i think that the the importance again back to what i said earlier about putting value on things you know you put a value on eating really good food you're gonna have really good food if you just are like hey just get that in you know i don't care what it is you know let's just you know go through a drive through and pick it up and just eat it because we we're hungry and we wanna get full versus no i want something that really tastes amazing and has you know and and is and is nutrient dense and all that stuff so again i think we give the value to the stuff and that will bring you know that'll bring the level and the quality of it but if you don't make it important then and and i just i mean yeah i just think that that the and then i have a philosophy about stuff that you do every day anyway like things that you do every day are acc right there's an accumulation i mean i mean there was a a technique they used to use to kill the kings in the old days as you just give them a little ars right and then eventually you know in a year or two was send the king cro and dies but it was never enough to just be deploy it wasn't poison but it was just an accumulation and i think you know i think that that's true with fitness i think it's true with with you know with your diet if you're just you know if you're if you're eating a little bit of bad food every day that's an acc thing if you're eating a little good food every day you know and and then that's an acc thing and i think that's your i think that that there's an opportunity to to really have an impact on your on your health if you're just you know hey i'm doing it i'm doing some training every day i'm know i'm getting a good night's sleep every day i'm getting i'm getting eating good food every day it's like this stuff over time is gonna pay dividends and it's and it you know it's it's i mean i i this thing that that really speaks back to the philosophy about being patient and being you know you're gonna i told you the story when i worked in downtown la la with the know that with that korean guy chu what brand what brand were they making stuff for he was making a oxygen he was building guests and green line so he's building all the guest jackets were they were made out of like old levi jeans they were they take jeans and they'd sew them all together and then they stonewall wash was really like a just like a big factory with koreans and he's just paying them nothing i mean well really a more yeah but exactly yeah but i mean pay it for ferrari paying them and paying them enough that they were able to support their families and and but he was had like i said big you know tumbling washers and dryers with palm stone but i'd sit in the end and try to pick stuff out like i wanna pick some wisdom out of this guy so one i'm sitting there one day and he'd always drink miller miller he would drink miller which is the worst beer ever but that's another story that's what i used to drink miller light miller lite that was my drink had high alcohol content and low carbs exactly yeah yeah yeah because that's so great put the worst but he he he said you know he goes oh yeah when good times here don't be too happy because after good time bad time comes but when bad times here don't be too sad because after after bad time good time come again and i'm like there's some wisdom there i mean it that that means technically you'd be numb if you didn't react to things but there is wisdom in the hey you know when bad times here don't be too sad because after bad time good time come and when you're in the good time don't be too happy so in a way i think there's something to be shared about that can i ask you about your house i i've i've studied or i've i've seen your house in the setup and i talked to a ton of friends was like oh yeah we went to lair which is you're you're like you're you're like the bon you know you're a one man you're a one named guy now which is cool but they're like oh we went the layers and we get the pool thing and it was amazing and like one of the things that you've done is like you're living like every like many men's fantasy which is have this amazing house that's like community and yeah people coming and go and it's all on your terms and i think it's pretty cool what year did you buy that house and how much should it cost would you like you know when that was i mean it was well i don't know i don't remember exact figure but it's cheap for malibu crazy but we've been here for twenty five years twenty twenty six years so you know what's the values of of you know what i mean things for a million dollars twenty five years ago or twenty five million now was that a big deal for you at the time and it was big police oh yeah oh yeah i mean when gabby when i when we looked at that house because it was the guy had built it for his the guy who built the house built it for himself and and he was a greek engineer the one here in malibu because i also you know i'm from hawaii and so we have a home there yeah we just we we just finished during the pandemic but he was billed for his how his his family and then he and then during the process i think him and his wife kinda of god got divorced which happens a lot to people because building houses is very stressful like it's a very stressful thing but i said to gabby i go i i i showed her the house that she looked at the i go don't look at the price look at the house just think if you want the house like before you'd look at the price to let it affect you whether you want the house or not look at the house because you know sometimes i think we get in the way of oh that's how much it is i can't get that and dictate instead of well no so let's see if you want it or not like why would it even matter what the price was if you didn't want it anyway so first let's see if you want it so we went we came and looked at the house and she was like oh it's amazing and i stood across at this house i stood across the street i didn't even come into the house and i just looked and i could see the ocean i could see this wave that i love to serve and so i just and i was like i love this house and she's like well you haven't been in the house yet and i go you man i don't even need to go in the house i'm good if you're good i'm because i could be on a you know i could've have been on a you know an a tent right there looking at the that it so that you know the the what do they say about real estate and rest probably restaurants where real estate and houses this location location location location location it's all everything's about location if you're if you're if people are trying to buy things and for value or keep value or have an increased value it's all about location i mean you can always change the house you can rebuild the house but you can't change where it is and so i i think you know that's one thing about when you grow up in hawaii and you live in an environment where people work all year to save up to come on vacation for one week and then you live in that environment you kinda i mean if you don't if you have your head screwed on correctly you realize what how fortunate that is you know that that that's a fortunate thing to be that the and those and that those are to be cherished those places that yet that people seek out to just you know be able to go there for a week and you live there that's a pretty that's a pretty fortunate thing but also that you you need to realize that that's that that means it's a special place you know i always see videos of these athletes coming and going how many days a week are you actually having people come and do those workouts in the pool well gabby does her she has training in the morning it depends on the time of the year you know normally most of this is in the summertime because you have football basketball a lot of times it's off season guys come you know i have just i'm connected with a lot of different athletes and a lot of different coaches and a lot of different ph and so people you know guys get hurt and then they're coming out of an injury and then they'll send them to come see to see you know to see us are you charging them or is this just like you're just doing it for fun no it's no because it's if if you if if if you charge people then it's the the dynamic changes you know job we really like we like to i like to have that sign that it says we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone like kind of thing like i think that that's a better it's a better relationship i mean we don't have to we don't we don't meet to so it allows us we have the luxury to be able to not have the charge because we're able to you know we're we're there's other ways to to earn a living and so but that does set up a really nice environment i have like i have a young a young man that's been living with us and and train training and learning about training he's becoming you know very versatile and just advanced and because he's has such exposure and so like he'll i'll we'll get guys who come in and guys that wanna get get work you know worked with i'll have him and we have other other trainers with expertise and we have other people that we know that hey if you if somebody needs a trainer and they and they wanna run through a lot of this the stuff that we do we'll we'll you know i what do we say we have people for that but yeah we have people for that that that do that and then the rest of it you know normally we kinda have a communal training you know like on on on certain days of the week we have some kind of regulars that kinda come and train on those days you know we do like it'll be maybe lift lifting and and stuff and dry land stuff on on you know like monday wednesday fridays and then tuesday thursday saturdays is is can be the pool stuff depending on on on who it is and and what we what we're doing it's it's not a lot i mean there's at times there could be a a fair amount of people you know the the the stuff that we do does weed out some of the people just because it's you know we're we're we're here to work and and it's and it's and we have a you know a big p probably the most important piece of it is this community right that we have a little that we have a really nice community that that that's what you realized that we all are looking for right we're all looking for a little tribe to belong to i mean that's i would i would blame i wouldn't say blame but i'd say that that was part of the success of something like crossfit that it was really had less to do with the work workout itself as it did that you were part of a tribe and you had a community and people that were like minded that we're training with you and so on so i think that's a big piece of it i think that that you know that that we need that you i mean listen some days you're just down and you're like hey you know i feel like doing anything today and then somebody's out there okay ready to go and then you're like okay let's go and then you just so you know and vice versa they might not be in you are and so i think that we we kinda lift each other up i think that that's part of i mean we humans are communal creatures and i think we operate well that way as long as we have like minded people i was looking at like some old photos of of folks in your pool i think there was like a we get a whole bunch of and yeah yeah you had a whole bunch of basketball players joke of noah grand hill a few other people who who have you worked out with back there that has put you in awe of of their fitness or their athletic ability i mean listen and i get so many crazy guys i think i i mean now my problem is i probably have a skewed bar like my you know i don't got because i'm with normally i'm always with all these freaks right so it's a little bit like hard to out freak the freak you know like you when you got you know i got when you guys got you got you know guys like chris mc caf or or or you know or ja or i mean just you just have the level of athlete that you have is i mean i think there's some there's always you know the the the you the the people that surprise you are probably people you haven't heard of that that come there that that have a certain mindset because some of the pool stuff that we do can be it's it's stressful you know and so sometimes you know you'd you'd you'd think you'd get this big super strong guy and he freaks out and then you get some kinda more frail you know lady that just has a you know mental giant and can just handle you know being in the ice and drowning in the deep end and you know so it doesn't i think it's pretty that's why it's kinda neutralizing there's a an a neutralizing aspect to the environment because it's first of all you're always gonna have somebody that you know you're always gonna you're always gonna you're always gonna have somebody that can out you do you in something right you cannot do them they cannot do you and so our approach is more about you finding your own barriers and then trying to lift those up right you try to you try to and and don't use other people as a reference to you i think that's where we run trouble you know we get in trouble as you start comparing you get over there and you're like okay that guy doing this and which what do they say comparisons the death of happiness i'm not sure but put the thief joy something like that i i i've always hated that phrase when they say comparisons of thief joy because i'm like yeah that's true i shouldn't compare myself but i love to compete and so like well that's you know like though but that's different that's different comparing and competing yeah like i like seeing guys and i'm or in business and i'm like this person doing this revenue they're at fifty million i'm like oh fat dumbass could do that i definitely could do seventy let's crush them or like i've got a joke i'm like people are like oh you gotta like go that garage and i'm like this grudge fuels everything i do i've like i like the reason i work out hard is to like yeah prove my ex girlfriend from high school that like you were worthy yeah yeah i mean state yeah look everything i do is because everything i do is because of a grudge and like ray is the greatest feel on earth and so when people say like comparisons to keep joy i'm like oh i get so much joy proven like these idiots wrong and like letting a twenty year comment sit on my back for those years about i wasn't like you know fit enough or successful enough like i love that stuff you know what i mean yeah but you will but you know what interesting because that's i i i will say because i can relate to that i mean listen a lot of what i've done is because of that like so but then at a certain point then you get to this thing and then you're like okay then what then at some point you achieve the thing you're trying to do you prove your point and then you're sitting there going okay now what and then you're like okay do i have to make up a new one or maybe i can create motivation out of out of success or contentment or something versus so i think there is too i think that can be i i know for myself personally i've gone through you know being driven and motivated to achieve certain things because of you know frustration and proving the work to the world and and you know and all those things that i went through that drove drove me but then but then you achieve it and then you're like okay now what you know what am i gonna do now like now how i mean it adjust to be able to continue and so at least in my i can say you know and listen if you're a competitor you're a competitor that's just a vicious like for me i think i'm i am such a vicious competitor that that i would i almost i can't i don't i can barely actually even compete because i just because of because in in a real if you look at real if you look at competition in nature and the brutality of it like the real like the real thing not just these con try things of like the real like for real yeah then you're like okay well maybe i better figure out how to constructively vent that stuff do you does that does that does that carry over to to business too i mean are you talking i think mike i think i think his name's mike your new ceo are you like you know we need i want this much profit when need this much growth does that carry over to business as well yeah i mean not not that not that way not i mean it it it it you know i mean it maybe it should but it not that i think it's mine is a more you know mine is a patient thing like i have a like i you know my favorite term is the victory through attrition there's be a cockroach that's like like like the last guy standing like i'm all about that like you can be like yeah yeah yeah you can have your little wins your little wins and your little wins and all great but i'm talking about like at the end when you're the only one left on the battlefield and everybody's laying on the ground then you don't even have to be any good you don't even have to be good you're just undisputed you're the guy because so and i i think i think for me i feel like and and and and i'm looking at the greatest competition is life right the greatest competition is life like you wanna talk about the real game the game the the real game like because all these other things they're games they're right but the real game the big game is life the big game is you know is like the quality of like at the like relationship father you know how like your life like that's the big game that's the real game that's why i said i talk about the spoke i go yeah business that's one spoke make sure it's nice and tight good cool but if you're all there then you got these giant holes in the other spot i'm like sorry lost the game already but you you you you've not always been that way have you i think i read some old stuff where like i think your wife filed for divorce and you want at one point and you guys like you've thankfully made it work i think an o one yeah i think you i don't i don't remember if i read that you had a drinking problem but i think you said that you wish you had told your younger self to quit drinking earlier so i know if that was like a problem or not like i know that you and if i just were just a stereotype you i'm like i bet you were like a wild guy and anyone if i'm stereo typing a surfer who like goes out hard it does everything hard i'm like sure i bet you picked some of your devices with that same or you used that same energy sometimes for devices when did did were you kind of like you you weren't always this wise i'm sure and what made that switch if well no i mean i well okay let's let's be let's be clear that for sure work right sure work in process work in process now work in process then i mean i i always you know love sleep i always like even within my i mean i the thing like my thing about drinking like i loved i love wine i drink i i thought that was one i always said i had i had two french habits because i work with a french company for twenty years and my two french habits were espresso and pin noir and then it was like and and and like everything thing i do i have a tendency to do it you know in excess like if one's good then two's better so that's the mentality and so in a way but as far as like as far as kind of my i mean listen first of all i would have never first i never gavin and i would never have gotten to be together if i didn't have a certain if i was i didn't have a certain i'd say calculation morality values i mean there's certain things that were that i've had my whole life right that it sits i was since i was young it wasn't like i got them i had the i had the basis of it and then that's been just a process of refinement again oh loose spoke like hey you know what this this this drinking things an issue because i don't have real power over it i wanna prove to myself i do i come from a you know i a lot i always say i come from a long line alcoholic but we all do i think it's a human you know i i i always say out being alcoholic like being a surfer there's no one that doesn't love surfing well there's no human being that doesn't actually like alcohol it's just whether you die to i'm yeah i'm ten years sober too i yeah i loved it so i gotta get here i got fifteen not but but my thing was like a you know my mom said to me once when i was a kid she said if you can't be true to yourself you can't be true to anyone else and so i thought let me see if i say hey i can stop drinking anytime and then the next day i drink or the next week or the or the next month then i really don't have a lot of power over right so then i wanna have so then i wanna be like i wanna have some power over it and so that was a disciplined thing too and you know what what i saw also said and all the dumbest things i ever did were when i was drinking that all the stupidest things i have i've ever done usually some alcohol was somehow involved in there because because like it says on a bottle impair your motor skills so so let's not forget so in and so in in in in a way those things like the in my relationship the rocky times in relationship those refined you know and and and motivate you to make changes you know all those things okay drinking in the you know like just all these different these things that and there's things i'm still working on and probably will always be but that's a continuation of of trying to to get better like get get get better and not and and and which means that you're saying hey there's things that you think you could do better or you could be better or you could make changes or you could you know whatever whatever those are i mean there you know what do they say about sin you know let he without sin cast the first stone no one seems to be able to throw on because everybody falls short so i mean it's about being honest too like being honest with yourself and being like okay what is it what what do i what is it which which thing and then you know what you just start eliminate you start okay let me let's work on that one let's work on this one and then and then as you go and so that's i mean i'm in that i'm in that in that process and and and and you get success you get you get you get success i mean i use work i used to use the guilt from drinking to make me feel motivated about training so i'd be like oh i could drink pin cup you know bottle two bottle three bottles no problem dinner go to sleep wake up five am train like an animal well what's the problem no problem merge problem i don't your problem you can train hungover over oh yeah like an animal oh fuck that you p in the ocean using that using that guilt using that guilt and prove like a proof like all proof let me show you what a man i am you know i'll show you what i can do and so i i hope your pool had a good filter man i i don't know i don't pull constantly real worse but but like i said my drinking problem had to do with wine only never hard you know i mean be okay not never hard boost but i was pretty smart about that but but even within that i have you know there was some sort of but i'm i'm just speaking in general as a thing to refine right as you go let's just try to let's try to continue to to to polish the storm you're kinda going like one path down this longevity thing and healthy living thing that i love but i love freak shows i love like people who are just odd balls and a guy we had on here one time his name's is brian johnson have you seen brian johnson from blueprint i mean he's like total freak show when it comes to longevity and i love that people are brave enough to do what he's doing because like you can always learn cool well you doing extremes is any blending his food every everyday i think gabby did a podcast on him and that the guy he he he's doing all yeah that's basically he's he's everything yeah he's like i'll like give i'll give you like the the cliff notes but basically he's probably close to a billionaire so we started a company that he sold so he's got plenty of of income and and money to like be playing around but basically he he's like i'm gonna become the most tested person on planet earth and i'm gonna try to he goes i'm gonna try to decrease my biological age faster than my chronological age which obviously is gonna be impossible at one point to but he was like let's just see if i can get make my body younger even though my age gets older and so he like does crazy amounts of tests where he's doing tests weekly and he's spending millions of dollars doing it and he blogs and documents at all on his website blueprint but some of the crazy stuff that he's doing is he's like well through my tests are showing that like this vegan diet or vegan lifestyle is working well for me therefore i am only going to eat these same three things every day they like measures the calories down to like the thou he's like you know it's gonna be this amount of calories the servings the workout has to be this and i'm like i love that weirdo like that exists because we can we're gonna be able to learn some cool stuff from him have you been paying attention to that and what do you think about those people that are a little bit less i mean he i don't know if he's like you i think at one point you said science follows intuition with him it's like let's go science and let's see how that makes me feel but i've you even paying attention to that and what your what's your take well gabby did a show on on brian and a podcast went and interviewed him and so here and i have a conversation when she kinda filled me in about some of the stuff that he was doing did she go to his house she did yeah she didn't she ate some she ate some of his school lost she ate some of his the the studies blended yeah his blended blended it and i mean listen you know when you chew food when you chew food you create saliva that you create enzymes in your mouth that go down with the food to help digest the food and the one of the worst if the one of the ways that if you really wanna become like allergic or have a a an allergy against something is just eat that alone every day all day but but that gets into i'm into a whole you know i'm i i'm into i guess for me i just feel like you can't hack your way around biology in my in my in in my the world of my thought and it is interesting i think you can use hacking to support work you know i think i think first of all i think in the diet one of the most important things is diversity i think that's one of the most important i mean the problem is is it's hard to not get bombarded by a bunch of you know things that aren't good for you as well but you know through that so it it'll be it'll be it would be interesting to to i mean gabby would be a better person to have the conversation about but i am always interested in watching i think there's so much i don't know he i mean i do appreciate that he's doing like the guys going through going through it but but as far as you know what what you know we're what we are and what we're doing and what we need i'll be interested you know i'll be interested to see first of all what what it what it you know what it does i i think more as a entertainment that's i'm saying like i i love that like don't know if you pay attention to fighting but you know who nate do you you watch fighting like mma or i don't i don't watch a lot of it i i know i have a bunch of guys i know that do it but i i'm yeah i mean i i i i i i always say i love a free show i i like fighting boxing i mean i love just like what do you think about crazy event what do you think about wrestling wwe wrestling or wwe i i mean i love that watch that what's that yeah well a friend of mine my friend or mine bring brought me to it i never even watched it and i have a friend that really is into it and so he he he brought me and i go with him but i only i live vic cares through him because i'm amazed just how how intuit it he is how much he knows about it but just a growing and soap opera top far it's barbara no that's fun i love that to it no it goes to our deep it serves the purpose oh yeah does it goes right to the wanna leave like guide is underwear it's like fighting and argument about shit you know what i mean like let's just like i just like i like me i like weirdo i like freaks just like let it be well and also people from outside really they think they actually think that the audience think that everything what's going on is real they don't realize that everybody in the audience knows exactly what's going on and they're just participating in the whole show and then it's all part whole thing it's pretty so yeah the humans are i mean listen humans are entertaining and and you know just watch them when you're like i i have this like image in my head of of what you are and like you running your businesses i'm like is he like totally out of the picture on a day day on a day to day basis and just talks to the ceo once a month and i was like actually what's that what what would that look like when when we got on here your wife helped set up the camera are you even using a computer or a phone on a daily basis are you totally the task no i'm i i'm i'm a i use a phone i'm not i'm not i'm not a social media a guy i don't spend very i mean this is my the phone for me is communication weather weather and news and new and new stuff that debt and when i say news i mean more like investigation stuff like but but like i mean listen i i'm what's investigation stuff just trying to understand what the truth is about whatever and everything so they just it just i'm i i i go into if i'm interested in something if you know if i'm interested in some political thing i i like to look like understand exactly from my own not just take the the advice of people that are telling you about it but actually like understand the real stuff so i have a tendency it but i'm just using like i said the thing for a tool so i i hardly i hardly use it i talked to jason all the time and i talked to you know blair apparel the lady you know the lady that's that's running that right now yeah i'm i'm in communication with with these because because it's first of it's got my name on it so the you know it's it's has to do with my brand and and we're just we're vested in the in it and interested in it so we're i mean all this the the i mean i mean i'm all also yeah i mean we're we're we're we're we're we're we spend you know we're we're multiple times a week if not every single day i'm communicating with those brands and and you know either discussing okay promotional this or or product development or you know whatever whatever yeah we're we're so i i i i i think i told you i i had started this company and sold it and when i was thirty so i was able to like financially get some some some really nice security there yeah and i look at the type of life that you live where so i also i split time between austin and new york my wife from new york and so should we we spend there all the time and i have a handful of projects that i'm working on i got a a a a company with the ceo that runs it so a a bit similar ish to to what you're doing and and god willing some of them will be huge what i'm curious about because there's aren't that many people in the situation where i want to go to and where i'm in now but you definitely are which is how do you break up how are you how do you map out your personal finances so because you said that you have this one farm as a project you have three or four five different businesses right now you have two or who knows what you have how much real estate do you just like is there just like one revenue stream where you're like that's just the like for example the app might have high margins so you're like oh we'll just live off that or media appearances i bet you i can just pay i i could make a million bucks a year and that will be what i live off of and then all the rest i'm gonna reinvest or i'll put into the a vanguard just normal index fund how does that how do how do you balance all your different things when it comes to a personal finance base i mean well i first of all i have smarter people at that the knee so i have i have i have i have the you know i have people that that you know i have specifically a woman that i work that we've worked with for a very long time that does like you know management that that sort of stuff i would say account accounting and and finance management just because that's she's into it and and and good at it and that's what she's interested in so we we have it we have that you know that's a big a big piece of it i i i think that you know i i i think one of the i mean for me personally i don't i i think that that that can be a a a such a consuming hold like that all of that stuff that you can just get swallowed into that and and lose every you know lose your connection with everything as well i think that you have to i i you know well part of it has to do with how you look at it like what's your what's your you know what's your faith you know like what kind of faith do you have what kind of belief do you have that everything's going well or not going well and do you think that you're gonna control everything and that you know how much control do you think you have and all those things i think that's a piece of my i think my my philosophy which so does that mean that you just don't stress out a significant amount about finances and like earlier you said when i bought that house you're you were like oh that was a lot of money for us back then but i was like we're doing it anyway we'll figure it out yeah that's kinda like your your how you live when it comes to finances yep which is which i i think for a lot of people they just can't operate like that and i think i think i think for me i just feel that just feels more fuck that just feels better i i i i just feel that feels more natural i just feel like you know because it because i just you know i've just seemed i first of all i've had to i've had the fortune to be exposed to a lot of wealthy people in my life like a lot of crazy wealth and and and seen people that had no nothing and all of a sudden and they got everything and i've seen people with everything and they lose everything and so i've gotten to watch a lot of it and i just feel like you know there there's a level of of imprisonment that happens when you when you you know and i think i mean a lot that's why when i say faith i mean you know they talk about about you know you you saving up you know in your warehouse with you know where moth and russ and eat you know like you know like there's some stuff to do with that i i think which i think you can't you can't always is not so simple too to to to be that way and i think it's harder for you know i think it's a it's a hard it's hard for people to to to operate like that but having that you know having that belief it's like the the people talk about visualization and visualizing and you know having that i mean that it's real that that's real stuff like if if you think it's not real you're you're mistaken that you you you you think you can you can make things your belief and it definitely will be supportive of it happening i can tell you that for sure in both ways right like in both ways you can make things be you know like gabby says if you have an ouch god give you a her you know if you walk around going ouch ouch ouch out so be surprised if stuff isn't just getting you out all the time and so and i think vice versa is the same way the other way which is you know what is that if you know you owe you have little faith i provide for the birds you don't think i'll provide for you like so there's some of that that's real stuff like they didn't just make that stuff up out of the sky that's a real that's real thing so i think there's something to be set about that it doesn't mean be stupid and you know it doesn't mean just you know just ignore your your reality but but there is something about that that's real that that i think can put you in the right state of mind to not just be cage by this stuff because this is a cage area that's an area that we can be cage and and i'm i'm one of them i'm i i get i cage by it's like when i i was broke and then i was not broke and i'm like oh shit i've just like created a a prison a little bit where you get where you stress out over running out yeah because we're battle we're yeah we're scarcity creatures right so we're we have this whole scarcity thing that's in us right so so and you know my mom had another good saying which was be the way god punishes you as he gives you what you asked for so be careful what you asked for because you go hey i just want that you know i want that big house and then you're like yeah and then all of a sudden with that house comes all this other stuff like all the stuff that comes with it which means that there's a bunch of stuff to break and there's a bunch of thing and there's a bunch of stuff to maintain and there's a you know it's so that and you know and that could be overwhelming i think i think that you know that's why you see these guys that are these big these big hit they're they're kinda they're not bogged down by all that little stuff right they're not they're looking in they're looking in in in a at a at a big at a bigger a bigger thing but that being said you know you know like i said there's is there's something about being prudent and and having the right people around you they could that that you because it's it takes a it takes a what do they say it takes a village but it you know you gotta have you gotta have people that to help because there's not you can't do everything you can you you know and it's like and so that you you need to be you're only as good as you know as the company you keep so i think that that's another important piece too like people well no i mean and that i that's one of the reasons why i look up to too we've had i don't know if you know what rob d is but he's pretty amazing where he's another guy where i'm like layered and robbed they've nailed it where business nailed it personal life you never have totally nailed that but you're like are do really well fitness nailed it like self awareness nailed it i know you we'll we'll wrap up here in a minute but my last question was i think last year on your guys youtube gabby asked you what are your goals for it was at the end of l's in twenty two she said what are your goals for two in twenty three you go this year i wanna be more of a savage i wanna be more set i wanna do more savage stuff like i wanna get like dirty and do something what is an example we're we're more than halfway through the year what's an example of something that you've done so far that's savage and you also talked about visualization over the next six months in eighteen months are there any particular experiences or goals that you're trying to do that would be that wouldn't check that box of being more of a savage well i mean in yeah i'm all i listen i have the nature i have for me here i'll give you an example for me i've always wanted to kill an animal i wanted to go and kill a deer or some type of i have cows at my ranch i was like i went i wanna slaughter it with my hands and i wanna eat it i was like i i don't do that enough and i eat a ton of meat i gotta do that yeah and like that's my that's that's an example for me which is not that very that's not too savage but what do you have well i go for i go i go for moose you know i go for a i go for probably in september i'll be i'll go get a moose and and so i can fill the cool fill the freezers for the winter but i grew up at a farm too so i'm already i've dealt with the you know and i've hunted when i was a kid we hunted born and stuff like that i mean for me that the savage stuff comes more with the with the with the ocean you know like with with the conditions i had one trip already to i had one trip to peru this summer i mean we're just my my most of my savage stuff comes from the environment so i need to you know and and and normally you know i mean listen i have i i just we had that giant malibu fire i had to i had i fought my house for you know i thought that i saw four or five hours with a suit and pump and and then i had a flood in hawaii after and i was like you know at night with boats it you know rescuing people off the top of their roofs of their houses and stuff and so i have to be careful what i asked for because before both of those things i said i just need some action you know i just so again you know back to what my mom said be careful what you asked for be careful yes yeah you gotta clarify so you have to clarify what you know what what that what that is you know i think because it's easy to make a blanket statement i just wanna know it's like i said when i was young i wanted to be surrounded by women you know that i just wanna be surrounded by women like and then now you are right then i have three daughters so you know again i should've have been a little more how clear in my def definition do you do you read a lot of books i listen to a loan of books but i read i read some and i'll read and listen but i but i listen to a lot what of the best two that you've listened to in the last twelve or eighteen months so well i did i did i like there was a book called life after life that i really i i really enjoy by what that what's his name moody and then let me see the you know there's a there's a gnarly a really pretty heavy one called embrace the fearless embrace fearless the burning world by barry lopez he's he's pretty radical and then i went i went full conspiracy oh actually the the psychology of totalitarian was pretty was a pretty heavy book that's the one you were referring to when you said he went full conspiracy no the the full conspiracy was called the trap that one's called the trap gotcha i i go i kinda go all over the i have a really good one water right now you know i'm i'm i i like fixed i i i like you know i like factual books i'm not i'm not a big fiction guy i like i like i give you let give you there so i read a ton i read about i i only read history basically okay mostly historical stuff okay and i'm gonna give you three three in particular okay i i thought that you would like you know dan carlin of course hardcore history yeah because dan we know dan dan a buddy of ours really he's cool yeah i'm gonna give you three in particular that you're gonna dig okay the first is called the wage so the first two books i'm suggesting are ship books it's about shipping ships in the eighteen hundreds yep so the first one's called the wage and so these crazy guys would sail you know they're eight hundreds ship yep from england all the way down through yeah argentina horn argentina and cape horn cape horn yep and they got stranded and it took up two years to get back so you dig that one the second one is called the heart of the sea it's this if you ever a red moby dick you know about the whale that syncs the ship yeah there's actually a true story behind it and so man took it originally was for quaker yeah were whale men yep and so these whale men with they would their fucking animals you wanna be talking about savage imagine sailing a ship with no electricity no yeah like way to talk to anyone for two years all the way over sometimes to the pacific to africa yep and they basically their ship was sunk in the middle of the pacific and it's about how they got back to south america and then the last one that i think you'll really dig because i wanted to give you three books on being a savage the last one was called un un undo courage and it's about the story of lewis and clark okay lewis and clark they were they were savages they were a good way i i i like their zone i've been up in washington where their where their their trail was in their their hardcore those guys are they're were honorable yeah they were bad to the fucking bone or the what i like they were they weren't killing anybody they were just they were making maps so yeah yeah they're and they would meet these natives and they were like hey we're we're we're in peace we're gonna be cool with you but it took him two years two years and four months to go from saint louis to the pacific and back and it's a crazy story yeah so those are the three that i would recommend you i and i just finished the story about john wi booth the guy who killed the abe lincoln and the well they man hunt to find him so i read a ton of that stuff yeah the there was a great particularly i just had a ocean one two that i i can't remember what it is that it's about the oh what's your called i can't anyway there was a great one a sailing one about the race from hobart like the race from new zealand the the one that they there's is is there a is there a storm is there a storm on that one yeah crazy store and the and the boat and the the guys get yeah it's it's it's intense the on that race because that's one of the crazy reading more stuff yeah yeah those those stories you know i i work on my computer throughout the day the the the hardest points in my life are or if i go boxing or if i have a hard workout and i'm like i need some pain in my life in order to realize that like yeah to turn down my the volume of my daily life because my daily life is soft i need to read about something hard because you can't exactly go and experience lots a hard thing so this is why i like like reading about these books particularly the ship book so i thought you you you get a kick out of those absolutely well yeah because those are those are i mean so at sea is a real thing and especially those guys weren't exactly water too they you fall off the boat you die those guys those couldn't even swim which is easy that's what i'm saying they weren't exactly water man weren't day like they yeah no they couldn't even swim and if they would live on a ship for twenty years of the life they didn't even not a swim and also if you fell off a ship in the ocean those those sailboat like or the ships they can't turn around exactly know what i mean so they just fucking left you you you're dead oh yeah yeah this is that's hardcore well we we live in a pretty soft time right now this is a pretty this it is soft it is soft thankful for in and some capacity yeah you know like like there's no doubt but like so so that's why i think stuff and do particularly young man i think yeah well that's why they like you i think is because they see you risking your life on on a wave and then they'd like alright well i'm not willing to risk my life in a wave but i'll go to a pool and and lift up and work move weights at the bottom of the pool because at lisa that's a little bit of hard you know what i mean i think that's why a lot of young men admire you yeah well the stress is good it it's it we need it we're designed for it you know that kind constructive stress that you can control the environment and and because it's the other one if you induce it you you don't always have the you don't have as much participation in the outcome if it's just being subject if you're being subjected to it you know like a giant wave it can decide not to let you up versus at least in the pool you can always just let go your weights and swim to the surface but we kinda have to induce it now it's almost like we're forced you know a lot of the stuff that we're doing is we're inducing things that we were getting naturally like we were getting it from it's like now we don't get enough sun so we gotta supplement and take vitamin d it's like we're having this we're having to make up for the fact that we're not getting a lot of this stuff that we need biologically and then that's and that stress that's why the heat nice is great that's why the breath work is great that's why the pool stuff is great because it's it's a one one of the ways to stress to stress the system because it the system really needs for it to to really work correctly it needs a certain amount of stress and not stress of hey i owe taxes or hey i'm in the in the traffic but like some other stress a little more you know a little more just purely physical so yeah i remember looking at a buying a treadmill from my desk and then i like was like what the fuck am i doing this life i'm gonna put a a fucking walking treadmill on a desk we don't want what and then i like i i smack myself i was like this is not the life man i'm this is literally a hamster wheel what am i doing i'm not buying a treadmill for a desk if i gotta buy a treadmill for a desk my i'm i'm broken i've lost yeah but we're almost forced into that so we mean it's like i was like i said i was in europe and all they do is walk over there you know it's like they do a lot of walkie we don't walk as nearly as much because we just don't live in those i mean i guess in new york you can you know where you have through you can just if you want you can just or you can force yourself you have to force yourself but in europe they really do it a lot they do a lot of walking and you realize out well we we our system really does well with walking like we're designed we're walkers like that's our one of our big evolutions was that we came up off all fours and started walking and so our metabolism and everything just functions a lot better when we walk and so it it's it's you know like you said here now we're having to like buy things so we can stand in a room and walk it's terrible yeah i know i i i i almost bought one and then i was going like went through an existential crisis i'm like what am i doing i don't have to do this yeah i'm not gonna to go better than than me push yourself to go a walk in the park or something you know make them make time right well i appreciate you doing this i i really admire you i i i i admire you the family you've built the the length that you've built i'm excited that we were able to talk we're sam i really appreciate your time and thank you i appreciate the admiration and you know what seems like you're you're already you're already there ready so that's the that's it i i'm basically i i i read history because i like to see the mistakes as well as the wins that people have made and that's one of the reasons why like following you is i'm just like what wins did he make and you know that kinda helps point to me to a direction what mistakes that he make i i'm gonna try and avoid that one yeah and hopefully it works out but you've definitely kinda paid the path for me and a bunch of other people so i appreciate that i think i think that's one of the things that makes humans unique is that we can learn from the other people you know how to and how not to it's like so that's the that's a you that's one one of the things that really helps us you know is that we can if we can i mean the best is to learn from other people's mistakes you know but if we have a tendency sometimes the need to make them ourselves that's part of part of being human i think too so alright i appreciate you man thanks for coming yeah i feel like i could rule word i know i could be what i want to put at all in and like a day's off on a road travel never looking back