John Lee Dumas On How He Saved $1,000,000 In Taxes By Moving To Puerto Rico, How He Makes His Money, and More

alright today we hanging out with john lee du he's he's a podcast he's got you know pretty pretty popular podcast he does something cool which is he publishes all of his income online so the guy guys generated like twenty two million dollars in the last ten years he says here's how much i made here's how much i kept after expenses he then moved to puerto rico and pays like zero percent tax a four percent tax basically so we talk about his business how he makes his money why he moved to puerto rico and the pros and cons of that and what else we talked about we talked about he did a ten day water fast recently so we told all about that we asked him if he knows of any marketers that are making just stupid amounts of money because that's what i was curious about and we asked him a a a ton of good a ton of good stuff what did you think he he he's got some he's got big energy he's got bd man he's he's he was fun i didn't realize he would be fun and i think there was some good good good comedy this i would give this one i'm not even i'm even ask producer ben what he thinks i think this is an a a episode a or a plus either one i'm gonna save a plus for when some real special shit happens but this was a solid a like i would want to listen to this conversation because i think i would hear some things that i don't otherwise get to hear you don't really get to hear how people make their money earn the money you know what what actual numbers are people are very cage about that and also this guy was very opinionated he was like y'all stupid for living in california paying those taxes and here's why here you know here's how my life works you know ish sc and so i liked his opinion nature i thought that was that made for a good episode also how about him just making fun and be constantly like that's why i was like oh you must be boys you must be super close and i don't know that i mean i i like them but no he just got get funny of me he was like dude you don't even travel you don't even you've never even been anywhere i'm like what you talking about like just making fun of me you bully yeah you know like every portugal right yeah he just he just bullied me on my own pod he just alpha to be hard yeah so i think that should be the title of this like sam gets out alpha and we talk about puerto rico had a bunch of other stuff alright enjoy the episode i feel like i could rule where i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a day's off on a goal travel never looking back so hang on do you guys know each other well now that a fireside chat together and you know he said he said a couple in in in ins things on stage and i've really never forgiven him since oh great what did he say it's actually not even like like it shouldn't be repeated to be honest with you i was like trying to think if you actually said something which you didn't that was amazing so why don't you do an intro then since you guys are are buddy so john lee du had this well it i think it no it started it was always a podcast i couldn't remember if it was a blog also but blog mh and he's had it for like ten plus years i've listened to him forever and he interviews entrepreneurs for a long time it still is it's every single day it's only thirty minutes and one thing that he did early on that he still does i in fact i think you're one of the few people that still does is he releases his income every single month and so like i think in january he made like two hundred thousand dollars ish from podcast and another like fifteen grand selling notebooks and another tens of thousands of dollars selling his pair podcast paradise so anyway he's he's a well well how would you describe yourself john you're a podcast i'm a podcast entrepreneur wannabe be influencer wanna be sam you know all of those things fit so but he's been doing this for years and when i i told him this on our on his show and i'm not bullshit when i started the hustle i basically went and watched a ton of his interviews i did it with him in mixer g and i try to figure out how newsletters worked and i entered it based off of his interviews and he would interview like ben and lee founder of thrill like right when they were starting and like once and then also again when they were getting successful and i could like take out how to grow it based off of those interviews so it well you obviously figured it out yeah we figured it out and he's got this amazing database of of like interviews and it's just kinda like gold for research have you interviewed andrew warner speaking of mixer no get him on the show man that guy is a character like he's rates i love andrew yeah he's my buddy he he's he's a wild man get him on the show so by the way i gotta tell you this sean did you see the email that i sent you what about the podcast charts yeah so john i don't know if you believe this but sean what did it say subject line hubspot has eight podcast podcasts in charter top two hundred and then it's like set number nine gold digger at thirty two oh i believe listen hub hubspot only going after the players like i recruited jenna i got amy poor field in the house sam you know and my first millions is obviously blowing it up i mean papa boss going big here bro do i built a product that was called lab a long time ago i don't know if you ever ended up using it but it was used by a ton of like podcast and internet marketers they're like were one of the groups that flocked to it really early so like oh a stage i can stand on it i was actually on a lap and like tony robbins has jumped in and like the whole thing just like exploded it yeah i was crazy but you were like everybody referenced you and so i didn't i didn't know who you were but they're like you know john du dubai you know about they kept saying your name and so i have this perception of my head that was like you were like some you i didn't even know which one it was i was like is it marketing or is it podcast i didn't know which one it was but you had a ton of respect in in in those communities and so yeah i did and i still do yeah you gary v you know there was like a couple of people out there just me and gary basically one the two people alright it's the sam where you wanna start here's the first thing so i've actually said john that i love that people like you and buffer does this convertkit does this they revealed our revenue but i personally would never do that and i think it's i think it's crazy so like a lot of these youtubers do it so this guy graham stefan did it and then what's the other guy meet kevin i think his his handle his name's kevin he was like here's my fifty million dollar portfolio i think that's crazy but you every single month for like eight or nine years however long it's been you've revealed your revenue your profit where the revenues come from every single month do you think that that has been a net positive of course it's been a net positive but it will there be a time while you're like alright this isn't worth it for me anymore i don't know i mean you know it's really important for me that people know that i'm really rich so that's kind of a big deal and i i wanna keep publishing my income reports because of that but to give you like the real answer is back in two thousand eleven i i thought all internet stuff was scam like i had an army background i an austin in the us army for eight years i've been in corporate finance i just didn't think that you could go on the internet and do something good and positive and be an honorable person and actually make money i thought was for scammers and slimy people which of course it is and it always will be for some sector of the population but i stumbled across this one podcast slash blog called smart passive income and pat flynn this guy that's i didn't know from adam i found out about them literally that day was publishing income reports every single month i went back over his like last ten in income reports and i was like seeing how he was making money and that he was a family guy and that you know he was working hard writing really valuable articles for affiliate income and i was like wait a second so you you can be like a stand up person and make money giving people real value they're aren't gonna like you know call you slimy and scam me for them giving you money like they're actually gonna be happy about it and that kind of gave me faith in the internet as a place to grow business and i remember saying to myself that des sam i said hey if i ever make money in this business which is a huge question mark at that time i said if i ever make money in this business and this online internet marketing world whatever i end up doing i want to be the same type of inspiration for others a pat was for me and so a year in entrepreneurs on fire i made almost no money but then it clicked in at month thirteen i made a hundred thousand dollars and ever since then it's actually been a hundred and one months exactly because we do it income report every month so a hundred and one months now we've published a monthly income reports bringing on our lawyer to give a legal tab or our accountant to share our tax debt and we just try to share what's working for us was not working for us we've made some huge mistakes over the years and we share those in the incoming reports as well which is why some months are lower than others and some months are higher than others and it's just part of the transparency that i wanted to bring to the space so you're always gonna do that i don't foresee a time stopping that anytime soon there'd have to be like a real world events where you know i i i stopped for a reason that's not for a reason that's currently existing do you think that you're a target and that's could be the reason honestly is that because i could become a target because now people see how much money i'm making where the money's coming in from where it's going to can definitely make you a target i mean it's you know it's it's it's it's a crazy world out there there's hackers or scammers if anybody's involved in the n and crypto based you see every single day people are getting hacked and scammed and all this stuff and you know you've gotta remain vigilant and nobody's gonna be perfect i'm not gonna be perfect so i can make a mistake and then boom boom goes dynamite and it says since two thousand twelve so ten years gross income twenty two million net income sixteen point seven million dollars yeah and that's in a ten year period post tax by the way because i live in puerto so i get to keep the money i make unlike almost everybody else in the world so when did you move puerto rico six years ago thank god and explain what led to that so you met somebody who was doing this and you're like that's not a bad idea you start nothing like that actually but that was a good guess yeah what happened was multiple years in a row i was paying seven figures a year in taxes which i'm sure you guys are very familiar with like literally writing six figure checks every couple months for estimated taxes like multiple and just being like like it's like two steps forward one and a half steps back and i just realized i had this really kind of big realization that you know except for the my new percentage in the world you can make money anywhere in the world but you can't build well you can't build true wealth paying forty fifty fifty plus percent tax and taxes every single year you just can't do it so i started exploring the different options like moving to texas blah florida like am i gonna move to florida to save you know like ten percent on state taxes like it's not worth it like it's a federal tax thirty seven plus percent that's the killer so found out about this unbelievable incentive of puerto rico they launched it back in twenty twelve actually which was called act twenty in act twenty two and it was fantastic it literally said if you'd move your business to puerto rico which is an american territory you retain of course your us citizenship and you pay a flat four percent tax rate on all your corporate earnings you pay no federal no estate and the best part this is where my real wealth has extrapolate to like the moon is you pay zero percent capital gains so any money you made on stocks real estate crypto zero percent it's amazing to play to i we call it devil's avocado to play devil's avocado here i i think that i don't it's probably true also that you love it there or maybe i i think it but didn't you you didn't say that you loved it and it sounds like love it here love it here i think i think if you are moving somewhere just for tax reasons so i think that's that's ridiculous because isn't that the point of being rich that you can like live where you wanna live and you could do what you wanna do and and i mean how much of was the tax the number one reason the number one reason and i think it's ridiculous not to move with the situation because it is unbelievable what you can do when you start keeping the money you make with the investments that you make with the compounding i mean think of the millions and millions of dollars that i saved over the years that i now have been investing in all these companies money that i wouldn't even have had the government would have had and and thrown it down some empty pothole and now those companies are returning to me five ten some of them hundred x shots that i never would've have even been able to take without that so i'm going from like this person that would have been like doing my best to like squirrel away like a couple hundred thousand dollars a year investing in you know conservatively because i don't have much of a cushion in the stock market making like four to six percent a year and then oh no seven percent inflation comes and all my gains are gone anyways and it's like what am i even doing in this little rat race moved to puerto rico freed everything and i will never and oh by the way live in san diego so i was in this little two it was beautiful but it was a little two person apartments on a beach like you know five thousand dollars a month you know great view all this stuff if i want to buy a house it would have been way like like seven ten twelve million dollars in la jolla like to maintain the kind of location that i wanted to maintain i moved to puerto rico two million dollars bought me a six thousand square foot mansion on the caribbean in seventeen months i'd saved more in taxes than the house cost period so now i have this property in the caribbean in an amazing community i can still travel six months of the year doing whatever i want i can still live in california if i want four five six months of the year or wherever else i wanna be and i get to actually keep the money i make and something me that we don't even talk we haven't even talked about yet but the six figure phil checks that i've written to causes that i believe in like pencils of promise i sent a puerto rican to my alumni province college every single year with that i sponsor to my to my college so i have a freshman sophomore junior senior year and every year i add another one to the queue i mean these are things that i'm able to do because of the incredible disposable income that i have that wouldn't even have been a sniff if i stayed in california and a bunch of other people move to puerto rico so you probably have a community of people who believe what you believe and you've met there i would assume you've met a bunch of other kind of americans who have relocated into puerto rico and well to that point sean like i actually called the puerto rico funnel and this is actually where sam doesn't fit into the funnel and i'll explain to you right now the funnel is number one you've gotta be financially successful because otherwise you're not look to move so of course sam checks that block he's financially successful the next step down there though is you've also gonna be a location independent you're gonna be able to work wherever you want because you're down here in puerto rico so you know check that block sam checks that block i'm sure too the block the sand doesn't check that that's you know is the final part of the funnel that to me makes the coolest people move here is you've gotta be of adventurous you know you can't be like sam like i'm gonna stay in the exact same place that i've been forever because i don't wanna move that's ridiculous no you gotta be somebody like you know what it just moved i'm i'm going to get out there on a limb and i wanna go try a place out in the caribbean and guess what sean if it didn't work if kate and i didn't love it we would have gone back in a harp because it's not worth it if you're not loving it yeah course we came out here we were adventurous that one blocked that sam can't check in this funnel and we fell in love with the place and so all of people that do fit all those checks and they move here they're amazing flipping in people and we could have the best time with them amazing alright sam i will let you rebuttal you have twenty seconds for a rebuttal for the record just take from missouri yeah i'm from missouri i lived in california it's san francisco for ten years now i live in texas and new york i'm doing this podcast from europe i've been i've been a few places i've lived in australia like come on give me a break just but my whole thing is like the point of being wealthy is i wanna live around my family and i wanna have power most of the year and see that's actually be like to live away from my family so that's another thing that we we different with so you well we'll let we'll let the listeners decide when the when the hurricane hit did you have power not for four months four months okay you stronger rebuttal there stronger rebuttal at the end so so a week before the hurricane came in i booked a one way flight to london england and kate and i spent three and a half months t singh around europe at one airbnb for the next airbnb while my full time handyman that by the way i can afford because i live in a place where i don't pay any taxes except four percent as zero percent capital gains is living in my house picks up a few of the windows that broke i came back to a perfect place my life didn't even miss a beat and so have you met any other interesting characters there so tell us like kind of some other archetypes you're were like okay podcast blogger guy you logan here because he's smart dude jake paul lives here brendan bo lives here ty lopez lives here i mean listen everybody that i just mentions they're just smart people and that's why they moved here and that's why they're living here and that's why they're not like moving to some you know pod place in texas because the barbecue great here no they are living in a caribbean paradise i mean it wasn't exactly mu row you just mentioned but i'll let that fast that wasn't you know so trail so so you okay again let's fifty gears a bit you make a bunch of money you don't if tax on it fantastic you get to do other things phil fantastic what do you invest so we like to to kinda break down people's portfolios where do you kinda allocate capital to so yeah so i lot of that is that i do a lot of no i don't i don't put personal investments on my voice website that's just an income report money that i make income wise for the from the business but i do a lot of like angel investing in companies part of a couple groups i think you might know you know what josh ben right sam no i don't and josh okay well there's there's a couple of them that you know they have these like matt well the this called a hundred million dollar mastermind and they essentially get together dan fl josh ben zoning there's one other person i can't remember his name off top of my head and they essentially are vetting these potential angel investment deals and then they take into the entire round as part of angels mastermind yeah and that's been really enjoyable to see because you know they're doing like all the leg work with the legal and the financial and they bring the people to kinda pitch to us the deal and then you know there's hundreds of people in this mastermind so only a percentage of people are jumping in on each deal so angel investing is one thing that i do another thing that i've been getting really big into is both cryptocurrencies and n entities going deep in there you know got a bunch of blue chips like the board apes since the world of women's and the cool cats and all those jazz and you know just seeing where that's going and just kinda having fun with that and then on the investment side of things i'd stay away from physical like investments as far as like not interested in owning actual real estate to me like anything that might cause me real work in the real world i'm not as interested in but i do also hold a decent stake in both silver and gold as part of a kind of a inflation head strategy no stock earlier you said that no stocks zero i used to own a lot of stocks he should be in corporate finance i own zero stocks and what's your reason why because all my money that would otherwise have gone into stocks is all into something that i consider equal to stocks except a lot more high risk high growth which is the cryptocurrency the tokens the coins that i invested in and you know i'm i'm investing in mostly the quote quote blue chip cryptocurrency like the top twenty five coins for the most part i have a couple maybe in the twenty five to a hundred range and then maybe like three that are you know just complete degenerate but you know could one million acts if everything falls into place you said earlier that you've had these i think you said five ten even one hundred x when you were referring to a hundred x was that some angel investments and which one has been the biggest so my biggest current investment and this may or may not work out and again when when i said a hundred it was like that's the reason why i'm investing in these because that's the overall hope although the one i'm about to explain to you is you know currently a fantastic looking fantastic right now it actually happened because down here in the community i invested in a spa a special purpose acquisition and so basically a blank check company and they ended up merging with trump media and so i actually have a lot of money that i invested in this spa at four dollars a share that's the price of the spa and as assist today the actual merger is which i am locked into you by the way for at least the six to eight months so who knows if it's gonna turn out to be anything it could go way up from here could could go way down from here but those share prices are currently sitting at like eighty eight dollars per and my cost basis is six figures at a four dollar cost basis so that would be you know a massive multi multi you know eight figure return sam beard have you seen that one that the spa is called i think d it's called wack digital world acquisition it pumped right now because they just launched truth social yesterday yeah yeah his new app true social so are you on through social to support your spa want your i'm a little nervous i don't wanna i wanna spread fu but i mean like i literally went on the apple store downloaded the app entered in my email my phone number and it said we'll send you a code never got the code went back to the app and i like forgot password error something else error something else was error i i can't even open the app now i'm like yeah yikes this this could end up being a a five percent return but right now it's about a five hundred percent return that's funny how hard sean can you're you're in the space why can't he figure this out like because he's i mean he's obviously trump he's not the one running this obviously but like this is like the the second or third time that it the app i think it's blog to they both like screwed up how how can they not figure this out how hard can this need to like get a t a twenty person team to get make this happen so a couple things one is i think that initially the the first kind of false start they had i think it got leaked before it was ready like the site was not ready somebody came and squat on donald trump's like name because they're were like i the i found their website like you know i just made an account i took his name like it's so they weren't ready at that time for it so when people first saw it that what does this jan this they're a big thing but it was like no that was like you know not meant it seemed like it was not meant to be released it was that bad that it seemed like it was not meant to be released then when they do stuff like when you put when trump puts something in the store it gets like a crazy amount of traffic and it's very hard even when you think you've prepared for scale you the problem with preparing for scale is you plan for a lot of users so it's not like you didn't anticipate it but you just don't know where your system's is gonna break so it's like the example that that i've heard before is like imagine you have a bunch of pipes and you you're worried about a leak and so you could either spend like you know twelve days just walking down each inch of the pipe looking for is it okay but it's like a huge pipe system so you don't not really ever gonna be able to see it or the only real real way to know is you turn the water on and you see where the where the leak is and so like the problem with launching something when your high profile is you turn the water on but you turn it on a very high pressure at very high volume and you'll find wherever your leak is so for example coinbase base which is like a thousand plus person engineering silicon valley blue chip company did their super bowl commercial and it was the qr code bouncing around on the screen and so many people scanned it and went to the site their site crash now you again you'd be like dude coinbase you've been you have a thousand plus engineers you've been going you know this is the super bowl why did this break it's it's not because they they underestimated it it's almost always because some part of it that you didn't expect to fall over falls over but you can't really test it without massive scale so that's my long winded answer for you yeah i've seen that happen by the way like in the n t space i mean these people are are are at that big of a scale but you know they have discord of like two hundred and fifty thousand plus people so they know there's gonna be massive traffic when the mint happens but it never ever not crashes it crashes every single time bots happen every single time did ddos attacks happen every single time i mean it's not like oh half notes it's a hundred percent it's crazy did you guys did you guys see what happened with the coinbase commercial so basically what's the what's the founder name the god strong so brian na armstrong does this like ten tweet tweet storm where he said like you know we bought the super bowl ad spot for x millions of dollars and we weren't really sure what we were gonna do with it but we knew we'd figured out and we were sitting in a room sitting around a whiteboard coming with ideas and what they all just seemed gimmicky none of them were really true to us and i thought that around a whiteboard sitting wrong boat it was we got pitched a bunch of ideas but they all seemed like basically others came and pitched us their ideas and they all sucked and they all sucked and we were just sitting around and the like guys this is us these are all gimmicky we gotta do something unique something original and that's when someone came up with this brilliant idea just to do a qr code it was just a small thing that we kicking around at first and we said you know what that's brilliant let's do it and this one woman replies who's the ceo you he you missed the key part which he he says something in his so he's doing a victory lap basically on me he's like it started with the best thing it's like the people i was asking me about my care routine so i'm gonna do a breakdown it's like people are wondering about the backstory story behind the super bowl commercial that was super successful so let me just go ahead and tell you and it we're just fine take your victory lap that's cool i like that and but he you know he was doing the thing and then he was like you know this wasn't gonna win a hoard it ad week it's not something some fancy ad agency would do but it was like it was just scrappy creative and it was just us basically as that was his message so he specifically was like no agency would have ever like you know come up with this like stupidly simple thing it's like black screen with a bouncing qr code with flashing music and i like you know that wasn't gonna win any fancy you know like ari democrat awards but it worked and that's all that matters right so that was the comp that was the key setup where he kinda of built his own you know trap and then the the woman who was the ceo of the marketing firm she goes actually brian we came up with this idea you could see it in paragraph three page fourteen of the plan that we pitched you along with page you know forty nine paragraph five it says and she like highlighted like where you could see that she came up with the idea and it was a i like the guy brian it was a wonderful dunk on him though he he that that was not a good look yeah i think the commercial was great coinbase is great he's great but this right you get sometimes you get smack down i've been i've been slapped around my you know many times what do you think i've been doing to sand the whole episode and was he needs to get slapped down a little bit and then he tried to walk it back but he like kinda he barely walked it back he was like he said this is where i was like you you know you messed up like i totally liked the victory lap no problem i i believe that he didn't know and didn't realize that it was an agency that had given them the idea so you know because i otherwise why would he say it that's pretty stupid to it if he knew so i i give him the sort of pass on all that but his like apology he was sort of like he gave only like a centimeter of an apology he was like i know we could pull up the the exact thing but he said something along the lines of you know i didn't realize it was an external like he's like he first said it wasn't an ad agency it was a creative marketing firm that helped us and is it like a splitting hairs like if that mattered and then the second thing was like the teams worked so well together i didn't even realize it was another company it's was like the synergy was so strong he abstract didn't exactly prior yeah john i've got a question for you so you mentioned guys like ty lopez pe and i because you've been in the game for a bit you're not necessarily in this world but i think that you know a of these guys who are in this world who are like the ty lopez what's the great what's the other guy grant card and then there's like a abraham what's his what's abraham he's he writes abrams jay abraham yeah he's right read some really good books that i've read and i dig him of those folks that i mentioned and other people who are in that world one thing that i've always thought about these guys is i'm like well they definitely are crush it as like quote internet marketers so i'm kinda like a negative stereo typing them as this like other group but there's no way that they're like worth hundreds of millions or billions of dollars like the real you know startup guys you could sell a company for half a half a billion or billion dollars is that of those folks do some of them actually truly just knock it out the park and crush it in terms of building really big profitable companies i literally have no idea i have no idea i i do wonder why some of them stay so high profile and it keep working so hard if they have that's kind of a question that i've always had it's like well you know there's a million of things you could do but you keep doing this thing so you know i but i i i just don't know i see so one thing that grant like i i i don't know who grant i don't know grant card don't but sean you know who he right yeah yeah i i'm very familiar i would say so he i i think he's has like over a billion dollars in assets under management in terms of multi family and for years i was like this guy's full of it but if you look closely he rides he has his jet this fancy jet and if you gotta look really closely the nay the the seats of the head rest the head rest on the seats are embedded like embroidered with his name you know gc and was like oh this this has to be legit how i'm like this guy i it it it i don't think he's lying he's got like a fifty million dollar jet with his name embroidered on the head this this isn't a rental yeah and and i actually have a question for you then because you know this world better than i do the one i'm about to inquire you about which you know you said you have a guy that can sell a company for half a billion dollars in the silicon startup world in my impression i'm just like that person's probably sold like ninety nine percent of their equity to venture vulture years and years and years ago so when they're getting out i mean are they really sitting on half a billion dollars i immune or a percentage of that no i would imagine in most of sean would know even better than i would imagine in most cases that you see these massive close to a billion x exit i would imagine the founder owns between ten and twenty percent maybe the like still a lot of money famously the low number like is like four percent obviously there's outliers but like i remember when boxed dot com went public it was like wait to ceo only owned was he either the dropbox or box i don't remember which one things box and he owned four percent of his company at that point but you know there's other you know cases where they own twenty twenty five percent you know i know several people that own seventy percent at that at the billion dollar sale so you obviously there's a range i would say your estimate of like sort of fifteen to twenty percent ten to twenty percent is is probably the correct range like i think you can go look at like when twitter went public because you have to think first multiple cofounder so you take a hundred percent you divided by either you now you own fifty or thirty and then you're gonna take multiple rounds of dilution and so you you can basically as a rule of thumb assume like fifty percent dilution is like a pretty standard number by the time you get to an exit so if you own thirty three percent because you had two two c founders well now you're down to half of that right and so so you end up in that range that we talked about well and then ten twenty you have to you typically you have an employee pool that's ten to fifteen percent as well well yeah i saying all in all all all in your dilution ends up at that but then you know the the the crazy thing is usually the story doesn't end so you either get acquired by like facebook and then guess what facebook stock good runs up over the next ten years also or you you go public and it's like yeah what box went public ad is you know not the same about what boxes today so you still own those shares free and clear you've vested them and so you can go do whatever you want with your life and you know you can still appreciate like hopefully you move to puerto rico so all those capital gains can be fray very few do which is kind of surprised like when i hear about the puerto rico thing i'm honestly like what am i doing yeah and not just as i think the same thing you were very convincing but really like it's very did you exit lab what's that the you exit the pivot we did a blob is the one that that's sold we how much did you wanna that pivot when you when you sold it i owned twenty percent but we sold it not for stock in the company so we basically sold the assets and like the code the team all that stuff as like a bundle deal they didn't buy the actual shell and shares and so we we negotiated a like custom deal basically upon sale so i ended up with a different number than than the twenty percent that i owned and same thing for my team like if like i just made sure everybody got a win the investor got win i already got enough of a win we tried to deviate it up that way but now when you look at a company like riverside they're like we're on here today like yep are you looking at this company saying oh i know what's going on behind the scenes because i did a similar type company or do you consider like lab completely different than in a river lab was different because riverside did what we refused to do they were like we're gonna just be a tool we're gonna charge nine ninety nine or nineteen ninety nine a month and we're gonna be a niche tool for podcast at whereas with blah like you remember there was an audience when you were live talking like this so there was like yeah the goal was to be more like what club has became or what like you know a lot of the live streaming products became where it's like guess we were trying to build like the next twitter and it was like go big or go home was like the the kind of mentality for that we had a bunch of like like cisco and oracle were using it and they were like hey you should just make this for enterprise because this is way better than citrix and we were like yeah but the problem with that is then i wanna kill myself so what do what solution do you have for that and they were like oh what do you why did you say those words and i'm like yes because i don't i don't i don't wanna talk to you anymore so so you know they riverside did a different thing so even though the grid looks the same and it's kind of a similar technology they moved down a path that said can we get a few million dollars a year of recurring revenue through a subscription and so you know it's just a different game and john i think i don't know maybe sean what do you i i think that in order to get like your first substantial win i think it is far the likelihood is better that you're gonna make more money bootstrapping a company and selling for ten percent twenty percent thirty percent of what these huge startups sell for and try to own fifty sixty seventy eighty ninety hundred percent of the company yeah definitely the probability is higher is i mean it's like a risk reward thing right so you know it's less risky but the reward is lower overall but unlike here's the shitty part john is like for me and i bet you too sean i was paying myself i wasn't we our company would make seven figures in profit really good profit i paid myself twenty thousand twenty thousand eighty thousand and then the highest was like mid six figures but lower i don't remember three four hundred thousand and that was like the last year but whereas you were pay yourself a lot more and so i just keep all the money i make like i live in puerto rico i have three virtual assistants and i just keep eighty to ninety percent of every dollar that comes in my door after tax so a lot of a lot of startup folks like me and sean i i the only income we have like i have a friend that raised thirty five million dollars and the startup up went south after eight fucking years which is crazy because that sucks that he just wasted eight years and the only wealth that he made was basically his hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand dollar salary like that was his only that he was was put himself for eight years on that yeah killing himself it's really it's not sad because like it's cool that we get to take these chances but it it's this man it's a miss it's a really yes so sam have you seen his income reports so you're making hundred eighty thousand dollars i think on podcast sponsorships yeah personal for the win what what are we what are we doing what we'll what the hell is wrong with us sam john listen here's the numbers so this podcast i'll give you december numbers because that's what i remember we are at i think these are ballpark numbers five hundred thousand in youtube visits or like youtube video views a month and then roughly one point three to one point four and podcast downloads according to chart that puts us number nine i don't know if that's true but whatever are we what what what could this podcast make independent independently independently because your number is an independent number right or your numbers now the hot you do you put your like hubspot deal right here in public well my hubspot quote unquote deal is that they're sponsoring fifty percent of my episodes so you can pretty much d from whatever makes sponsorship wise at half of that's come from hubspot right okay great perfect i need to go renegotiate actually i don't even know maybe that mean that is about the same well it depends how many damaging you get right as we started the pod you're you're not on those charts so what's going on what are your monthly downloads yeah so i'll pull up my downloads from last month and this will be podcasts downloads only because we don't aggregate everything else because they're a fraction of what you're talking about anyways but so for the month of january we did two point nine six eight million so just under three million listens for just the podcast and you do how many episodes do you do like in a week we do thirty episodes a month okay so you do way more way more episode volume than we we do we do eight eight a month yeah i getting more we can strap it up baby every day fifty crowd we talk about you know hair that by the way is is kind of one of the secret sauces for my sponsored revenue all these years is like when they came to me back in two thousand thirteen there was a company called the mid roll and they said hey we're coming to you to first to sponsor for business because they were only doing comedy podcasts before that they go and they we're coming to you because you do thirty episodes a month that is sixty potential sponsorship slots because you can have two pre rolls two mid rolls and two post rolls and even now i actually add a third mid rolls now i have two pre rolls some episodes i have three mid rolls and then two post rolls so they're like you're giving us like sixty to seventy five slots per month whereas a a weekly show we're only getting eights and so you know we can bring you an episode we can bring you a sponsor for two hundred bucks a month eight hundred bucks may not be exciting for you know somebody but two hundred bucks in an episode eight hundred bucks might be interesting for somebody doing a weekly show but you know two hundred dollars times thirty also then that starts becoming a little more exciting money especially for me who is just starting out so i think i made twelve thousand dollars the first month i was i did a sponsorships and all of that was because it was thirty episodes so the quantity was huge so what what what could what what could this podcast earn my m so let's just say so let's just round down let's say a million so a million would be what well the easy way is just what do you charge you charge a cpm like i like a fixed cpm across all those would you what's your cpm charge between a twenty five on the low if it's a longer term sponsorship yep two for the short for the short people like we wanna test a month right that's gonna be thirty five dollar cpm right alright sean i think we're i think we're in we're we're all in the in the room range just us way more volume because he's you know in puerto rico he just goes he's sitting at the pool comes back inside dude record what's important thing to remember i'm keeping all this money i mean believe because i remember guys i remember when i would make i would do these webinars all the time in san diego and i was pushing podcast paradise since we'd make thirty thousand dollars forty thousand dollars on a webinar and i'd be like excited but at same time i'd be like oh that's that's twenty thousand dollars in taxes right there like it was literally like welch my entrepreneurial soul and i knew i had to leave man i knew i just started keeping all the money that i made is there a parts you gonna have yeah yeah we're actually getting married april twenty third right here in and palm del mar puerto rico my community because it's that awesome thank you and then goalie is getting yank so we'll say i mean i'm i'm forty two years old man i'm no spring chicken i may not may not have been able to have kids for ten years now who knows i mean that would explain a lot to be honest with you and you wanna raise your kids there hundred percent oh my god i wouldn't want anywhere that the families that move here like it's unbelievable to see what happens with their kids they just like transform now they're all like cruising around in the community on golf carts it's a huge community by the way there's three thousand five hundred homes in my gated community so there's wow seventeen restaurants two eighteen whole golf courses is twenty tennis courts ten pickle ball courts a beach club a fitness club and a k through twelve academy called palm academy right here in the community and it's just like this one all inclusive it's kinda like the truman show you know what remember he was sucking that bubble i'm stuck on a bubble is this where peter schiff lives what this where peter schiff lives no he lives dorado that's where all the rich sn live that don't wanna view the ocean because toronto's flat as a pancake yeah so nobody except the people that live right on the ocean which is just a condo complex has a view of the ocean whereas in palm omar as you can see here where sure where i live you will live up on these hills and everybody's got these epic epic panoramic mountain caribbean island view that's just to die for and like if you get sick you know what you have to like go to the local butcher for like surgery or there's like a not gonna lie you wanna start talking cons there's cons everything the cons there's not great hospitals in puerto rico i will give an asterisk where peter schiff lives which is gerard dorado they just opened up a state of the art john hopkins hospital which is epic but unfortunately for us is like an hour and a half away i'm actually a military veteran i did eight years as an officer in the army so there's actually a lot of amazing veterans hospitals in puerto rico because there are three and a half million people here and a lot of them are veterans because it's like one of the best ways to like get off the island if here in poverty so a lot of people do that so we have a a really state of the art veterans hospital which covers me but for your average person coming down here it's not the most ideal thing in the world by a long shot like what what most families do is you get there's a lot of doctors live in our community and they offer their services for a monthly rate and so like kate she pays a thousand bucks a year no wait eleven hundred bucks a year and she has full time access twenty four seven to a doctor who will you know like write prescriptions or if anything happens to her physically he'll actually like take her to which he thinks is the best hospital for that injury or that illness and like do all the translations and get her to the right place because he has all the connections and all that jazz because again another con is there's a language barrier most puerto ricans do not speak english where do we live in our community everybody speaks english here so it's it's that's which is good and bad it's it's bad because doesn't doesn't force us to learn spanish so i i lived in for six years i don't speak word of spanish it's just the reality but you go outside of our community and you're like amongst you know the bur was which is the the the name for a need of puerto rican they don't speak english like no ob english has there has there been any businesses mentioned on your podcast where you're start this right now or maybe not you don't don't want to but you're like oh man blank should go start this right now this is an interesting opportunities is there anything in your head right now that it that sticks out as as at a brilliant opportunity that you've discovered on your podcast i really did just interview an interesting couple the other day and they had a you know one of those very romantic stories where she stood him up for a date but she felt bad and so she ended up baking him cookies and then delivering him cookies this is like twenty years ago and the guy was like well you can get piece pizza delivered but why why can't you get cookies delivered and they literally started up this homemade chocolate chip cookie delivery service company that's now like a billion dollar company they're sending me a bunch by the way right now which him kinda of excited about and i was like that's just kind of the cool ideas that i'd love to hear about it is like these ideas you're just like they happened because of a reason you're like light bulb i would never wanna go do any of those things because i i personally believe for me i have the perfect business where i work six days per month i do thirty interviews with amazing people sam included and then i get to release these episodes to the world i make plenty of money and you know life is good i get to chill relax by the pool twenty twenty five days a month i'm literally leaving sunday for eight days in cha france and it's my bachelor party so i'm skiing up in cha which is up in the french alps then i'm sitting three days in geneva by myself and i'm flying to rome i'm taking a train of this town called or and i'm doing a ten day self guided walking tour about fifteen to twenty miles any given day walking back into rome from middle of italy along the canterbury pilgrimage trail then i'm flying to istanbul i'm gonna be an istanbul for ten days by myself just doing my thing there and then i fly back to puerto rico which is like vacation away from vacation and just my life and didn't you just listen to this sean didn't you jen just like do like a five or seven day fast or something crazy so in twenty twenty one i decided i was gonna get into the healthiest state's optimal health and wellness of my life and you know like most of us we kinda kept it together over the years but i was like i can't get like below this this floor of like hundred for me i'm on five ten so it was like a hundred and seventy pounds i just couldn't get quite below that so i read this book which was a game changer for he called the pleasure trap game changer changed my entire wiring my mind around food and health and wellness in general went to this guy's clinic in santa rosa california for seventeen days did a ten day water only fast with a seven day ref feeding cycle afterwards came back was from a once from one seventy went down got down to one fifty dropped twenty two pounds actually because i was one seventy two weighed in got down to one fifty when i got back and then you know put put myself back up to where actually wanted to be which is like one sixty and i had such a good experience with that that over the course of this the remainder of twenty twenty one i did two more five day water fast which you know i had a good experience with as well i just did it here in my house in puerto rico sam have you ever done a water fast or juice cleanse or anything like that just for like twenty four hours i've never done i i'll do i'll do twenty four hours every ten days or so just just just because if it it feels nice sometimes but i've never done like that long did what what does it feel like to go that long stuff and day two and day three your body runs out of glycogen and glucose completely so you go from sugar burning and you flip into ketosis so now you're really keto adapted and you're just burning fat and that like meta is a tough transition so you you feel like crap you have like low energy you're hungry you're cranky but then once you kinda wake up on day four after getting through days two and three which are tough you kinda have this like clarity moment of like law and then days four through ten for me which was interesting no hunger zero hunger hunger was gone and then i just kinda went like up and down energy no energy energy like i gotta go for a walk and i'd be like i'm much more tired that i would normally be on this walk i i you know no lifting no heavy extra sizes but i worked the whole time and was fine the whole time you know got a lot of one that you realized by the way during a water fast how much time food ticks thinking about it getting it preparing it cooking it cleaning up after yourself like it's necessary by the way because you almost you're like i have way too much time right now and you just like you're like what do i do with all this time that's what i was gonna say like it'd be kinda bore i feel like most of my life is just preparing for the next meal yes and by the way you be a larger fast you realize that that's exactly what your life is yes it's not even it's not even a joke like that's exactly what your life is and the life of everybody around you they're planning whether are cautious so subconsciously what they're doing for breakfast tomorrow okay i gotta run to the store because we're having these people over or this or that or like it's movie night when you popcorn one it's like all people think about and you realize every advertisement in the world seems to just lead back to some kind of food consumption and you're just like wow this is a crazy world which which is great i think like it's great eating is like needs we had a guy we had a guy who lived on soy for thirty days and we wrote about it and he was like i feel fine he goes i'm just so lonely because the most fun i have is when i'm eating with friends and like i'm traveling you're gonna travel soon john like the most fun that you can have is like just going to a bar going to a restaurant and meeting people talking to the waitress and experiencing the the culture via the food so when i i'm down i i'll i will i'll after this i want you to send me the place that you did the ten day thing at i totally would i wanna do it but i do amazing took three classes a day like morning afternoon lunch you take classes they have chiropractors there and massage people there like you're learning everything there's all there's tons of food there by the way too because people are always ref feeding so you're always seeing people eating as well it's a very social place but it is man it it can be if not done right it can be very lonely is it a hoax was it like a hotel and and what was the cost so cheap two hundred bucks a nights and it's he you're like you have your yeah it's so cheap so reasonable but for us it it was like four hundred dollar sam so right that's true you guys you guys have to make four hundred to spend two hundred so i get that for sure but one other thing i'll mention about this and then actually i gotta jump to my next interview but it's the the it it was the mental bandwidth that a lot of people don't think about too because unfortunately your brain knows it needs to eat to survive and so it's just like you had this little record in your head that like it just says go get food you're like well no i'm fasting but then twenty seconds later go get food you're like but no i'm fasting go and you just can't stop it and so i remember after i first took like my i had my first meal i was just like oh my god the voice stopped because i was like no longer just telling me to go good food so that was the weird thing about that that i was not expecting was the mental drain they have to try you wanna do this this you i should do i got kids so i'm like i'm gonna have to do it at home you know like i'm not gonna listen after it happens after it happens i went to a a conference in orlando florida and no it was was in orlando yeah because we went to like thought i was with you i thought i was with you so that event by the way we you saw me i went out with a couple of buddies that night to like the down the planet hollywood place so it's like a real deal you know bars so they were actually cardi people to get in my three buddies who were thirty five thirty two and twenty seven i'm forty two they all just walked in the bartender literally was like dude come on like laughing at me that i was gonna try to go into the bar without getting him my id again like right now i've got a you know gray beer and all this but i was clean shave in i was super fit like my i was like no inflammation in my face like then and and that guy literally did not think i was twenty one years old and i was just like wow that's a testament to fasting because i'm definitely over twenty one years old but anyways guys gotta get going anything else you wanna talk about the program man thanks going on i enjoy traveling both you alright would you do the ten day fast i'd probably start with something lighter i've never fasted at all or done a juice cleanse or detox or anything so i'd start with something smaller but yeah like if that felt good i would go on to the next one would you move to puerto rico just for taxes dude i sure i'll want to after listening to that i'm like wait a minute i'm i'm sort of thinking how do i time this with the sale of a company that i own so i'm like okay when would i move such that i pay no capital gains for that company's exit i think that makes a lot of sense versus moving there like perpetually but i would definitely just go visit and just see what's the life like i know i lived in like indonesia and china in a bunch different places and i saw like yeah your quality of life can go way way up when you have like we had a chef and a live in maid and a driver and a mansion and like all these things for less than i have my like you know san francisco to bedroom apartment so like i i get it but i also saw the cons which were like you know you're away from american culture you don't you know your friends are like another like the select group of other people who made this this leap your health care is not very good and there was other other issues with it but i'm kind of down you know i think it's what's your white payments she would not wanna do that's the main that's the main reason i wouldn't do it she you we have our family here so it's like at the end of my life am i gonna be like thank god i saved that money on taxes or like thank god you know i was with my know i hanging out with my family all those random weekends that we were doing so and for me that matters but i think i could sort of convince my family to go to at some point so i think there's a we would move as a tribe either we all move or nobody moves is kind of like our our our mentality bend knows i'm hey like the dream is if you can pull it off with a compound get like like like fifteen families or whatever your your your closest friends and family and get to can move with you and then nobody wear clothes and everybody could just like be nude all the time it's that's the dream a some mormon way small colony yeah the you your mormons know about that you you you you have big dating circles well i don't i don't know where the new angle came from him with the with more of but the rest that i guess applies yeah i would just mixing some two different groups together there that's both i think i don't i'm not sure if i would it i'll go check it out but what i will commit right now is i'll before the end of the year i'll i'll i'll do a five day at least a five day i'll go to his i'm gonna go to his place i think that'd be fun i think remember i told you if i was gonna start like i joke i said i'm gonna start this thing called hostage or we just steal you for ten days you just lose weight just we don't feed you you just tell all are guaranteed yeah results guaranteed just math i think i think i think that's i'll i'll i'll put myself your hostage i think i'll do it you consider going to a fasting like retreat i know someone who did that yeah yeah i think that's the only way i could yeah i think that's the only way i could do it you can do it like just at home you'd have to go to or three you think i think so what what i'd love the one of the reasons why i like i like spending half the year in new york cafe in austin i like to travel a lot is when you travel and break your frame you get out or when you when you when you move to a different when you're in physically a different location you also become a different in a different frame mental frame and i so i think that it's really important to do that so like it's called and and this is like for example let's just say that i took you to a costco il seven and i go benson down you see this picasso isn't this lovely you should buy this for ten million dollars you're not like the right frame to buy this like expensive thing but let's say i took you to this like museum and i sent you down this red velvet seat beautiful lights did you say you're like in the store yeah i'm saying like you had like a different of different physical location put you in the right frame to do something and like you're not gonna like if i'm in costco i'm not gonna spy something for tens of thousands of dollars but if i'm in like this beautiful place that i'm more likely to go do something it's the same way with different fitness stuff or you know like like someone says they're gonna meditate for like an hour day i'm like dude i can't do that at my house like it just i'm just not in met i'd rather go on my phone but if i'm in like physically a different place i think i'm more likely to do it so i'd rather just sacrifice and do it you just said a couple of things that are so true one just changing your location we'll just break your pattern of thinking which is super important i'm i just realized when you said that how true that is and how guilty i am of that right now because i have this like great rhythm going but i'm in the same place all the time like when went to the farming conference that was my pattern break and guess what that's where we like conceived and launched the milk road and now it's doing great and it's like like dude would i have done that what i've really must up the energy been able to pitch it properly been able to like formulate the exact idea had i not just like changed my frame it's like that conference was really nothing about you know it's a different kind of milk that i was thinking about basically at the farming conference so so that that just shifting your your mentality or breaking your mental pattern is so true that's that's what true the other thing is like if you think about the fasting what are you really doing are you really doing it because you're gonna lose weight for ten days well you're just gonna put it back on most likely it's like you're doing it for the experience like if if i was gonna do it i would do it because i want a unique experience and i like questioning the things that are not questioned in my life like the the things that society is just conditioned me to do and believe are necessary i like having that red pill moment where it's like oh do you really think you need to eat three meals a day y three why not four why not five why why at these times maybe you don't need to eat at all if you ever tried that it's like no i just follows you know the instructions in the manual of life and i just did it so it's like i like the questioning of life exercises and want that experience so like i'm i would do it at home just because i wouldn't wanna leave my kids for like seventeen days you know just to do something kind of just for myself right now because they're really little but but that's what i would want out of it is the unique experience of being in that place changing your mental frame and then doing it intensely rather than with low intensity like at home i could do it with sort of like low intensity whereas if i'm there i'm committed at a different level of intensity how's is the milk road going what are you at it's amazing i wanna say you know what i was say i always talk about it when when it's when i want your help to make it work like when i want the audience to help me make it work and then once it starts working i shut the fuck up it's at the shut the fuck up stage so i will slack you i will slack you privately and tell you how going but but you're getting energy from it yeah it's it's a lot of fun and it's like the business just like the business just worked straight off the bat which is wonderful because we didn't have to like wander around and search it's and who knows maybe like add some things later but like the core of it is working people like it i like it and it's creating the reasons i had for doing it are all happening so i'm like okay and we'll that's exactly what i would want can you see yourself producing or writing for three hundred and fifty days for the next two years ben takes the load on the writing so he writes the draft every day and then i edit the draft every night at like you don't once like my kids sleep super so they they fall asleep like ten or eleven pm and then i'll edit it for thirty minutes to an hour at night and so so far that's working now ben i'm sure at some point you know once a vacation or catches the flu or whatever and you know like we haven't like accounted there's like no redundancy it's like it's like we do it tonight or else and so like let me ask you this for the hustle did you ever miss an edition no never i don't i don't think i i think there was a couple times where there was like a a terrorist event or something like that like remember when the cops the the well remember when the dallas cops got shot like or like there's something were like because it was like a bat in bad taste or something well we had to like delete like i think that there was like when there was fires in napa or i i forget exactly what happened but there there's been like these like crazy events like when trump won like where it was like everyone's focused on that we had like scrap our plans and kind of throw something hap ass together but we almost all i don't think not once said we ever miss anything but sometimes it felt like we phoned it in yeah yeah yeah but you didn't you know the button it's like the in the button of it lost it's like you have to hit the button every and whatever what is it like every eight minutes or one hour and eight six minutes or something they had to hit that button that's how it feels running the milk road business it's like the email has to go out every morning and for the life of this company it cannot miss a day and i stress all that have a little intensity you had with it i know me i skip all the time like i have five through tuesday it's been sent on wednesday i think like five times the year already so it's like i like five times the last year and so you know i'm the type that like i don't really do good with like adhering to schedules and stuff like that but it seems very necessary for this business as a like standard to hold yes the only thing that we would do and i think you should do is we would be really liberal with the holidays so for example if there's like a holiday of like should we celebrate this shall we not celebrate it we typically defaulted to celebrate it and we'll run like we when we would have backups that we would run but that particular day would be different so for example on president's day that would just be like a a redo of like something old that we've done and so we would take advantage of holidays but that's pretty much it but also we we sent on sunday too so it was six days a week yeah so we do we do five and then the other thing so the business is working and the feedback like i was reading i read the feedback every morning on like everybody who responds to the thing it's interesting right very addictive but also very like you know feedback can hurt you know like you think you did good and people are like you're a dumbass because you got this number wrong this word wrong or i disagree with you and so it's like such a awesome thing to feel every day is an actual feed feedback loop of your work or if you think about it like you know most people in most jobs get almost no feedback on a daily basis and even this podcast it gets very little feedback right we record it it comes out like i don't know four or five days later i don't i don't ever listen to it if people like it to just dislike it like i'll get a few compliments but i don't get the negative stuff typically you know we don't really get a feedback we see a number and a number is very imp versus with this it's like i get daily feedback every single day on something i created and tried to make good and that's like a pretty awesome thing that's going on and the other thing that was cool was chris dixon the the the partner at asics six at h who runs their crypto thing like they're whatever billion dollar crypto fund or whatever he tweeted out something that was like what's the coolest thing in web three that's going on right now and we literally think got like i don't know fifty to a hundred mentions of people just organically just going to chris saying mil crow best thing best thing i'm subscribed to for crypto but and milk road has gotta be the best my favorite thing crypto right now that's when i was like look ben that's working like that's what working feels like because we didn't ask them to go leave a review like we didn't even know we got started getting tagged in this and if and so the example i'll give of that is my family was hanging out at the end of the year or we were kind of like oh are you most grateful for this year kind of like i don't know you probably had a similar conversation like oh was the best thing of the year worst thing of the or whatever kinda had our own little over lunch just conversation about that and four of us all said that we started training with my trainer j and so it's like yeah training with john was was the the best thing i did this year but it was the best part of my year it the best thing i did this year i went back and told him i go dude that's kinda crazy like on one hand like i'm a personal trainer there's plenty of those yeah i make this amount of money it's not like i'm this billionaire blah blah it's like but four people you know that i know said that you were the best thing that happened to them in the year like that is the one of like the highest compliments you can get and it just sort of changed my thinking of like what does like high impact or what does winning even look like because i hadn't really considered that that could even be a part of it dude there's a there's a reason why all these rich people by media companies you know the with the one of the first facebook employees bought i think the new republic which was a famous newspaper jeff bezos washington post what did a salesforce guy bought something i think time an indonesian billionaire i think indonesian bought fortune a chinese guy is buying or forbes okay yeah wall street journal is i mean rupert murdoch like is obsessed with the shit doesn't have to do anymore it it media it it it sucks that so media can be lucrative but the likelihood that it will at like the likelihood fox is the biggest probably media company in the world and it's not it's probably i actually don't wanna know know what its market cap is but it's not bigger than like a salesforce or something or i bet like like hubspot will likely be bigger and hubspot just like is bigger than the than the value that of the company right for me and that sucks and that that's like at my heart that that kills me i'm like fuck the thing that i love is not the most lucrative and that can kinda suck sometimes because what did you say earlier you said it's a nine out of ten hustle but a two out of ten opportunity media requires a nine out of ten hustle i would say it's a five out of ten maybe it's a six out of i would say it's a i would say it's a five out of ten opportunity and and that kinda blows totally if this wasn't basically my test was like i think this is pretty much like a bad business opportunity just in general like of of all the business opportunities in front of me right now this is on the end of the worst ones but i still wanna do it that means it's a like a signal i should really go do that thing because like if my my emotion is actually even trump the on paper logic that means it's actually what i want to go do and i'm not doing obviously external outcome but then and this one the other thing that like bumped it was i think crypto has more opportune higher opportunity score than if i had done media and like let's say sports or some other thing i'm interested in obviously it's you know it's the business of money right and it's like where a lot of the action is right now so you know like you know the motley pool makes like five or six seven hundred million dollars a year i'll i'll give you an example of this because we were just talking about it we did e ecommerce satya here i think e ecommerce is also like level ten hustle level five or six opportunity maybe level six opportunity level seven max and but i was was selling i was i was chatting with ben and i was like you know what's the one of the best startup up investments in our portfolio right now is this company called triple well that is like a e ecommerce like kinda like analytics company and we were i saw it i was oh i want this for our brand and then we started using it i was like this is a great product i should try to invest in this i was one of the first investors in it so i got in at a very low valuation and it's raising out like a very high valuation and so that investment alone is like a you know thirty x plus multiple already and it's still pretty like early in its span that if that keeps going like that that could end up being a a a sort of like you know hundred x two hundred x return i was like we might make more money off that than the actual d business we definitely are gonna make more money off right now that investment is gonna make more in my pocket than my brand would jet spit off and you know owner owner profits you know last year or something like that and you know that decision to invest that took five seconds i wrote a check never did any work like any work yeah i also wouldn't have ever invested in that had i not been doing this and so you know the steve jobs quote of like you can't connect the dots looking forward you can only connect the dots looking back i think that's very true early in my career i made the mistake whereas as i was doing something and my eyes were sort of shit like shut towards like the adjacent opportunities that were coming like the halo effect the other things that were in my world because i was in this space right like okay like let's take producer ben for a second so ben makes some money for producing this podcast fantastic that's a good thing he's sharpening up at skills that's like the direct benefit of this job but then there's the indirect benefits of the job and like what are the indirect benefits like for example spend you've never said hey sean could i you know maybe c with you on some of these deals like i would say yes to that and you could put it whatever amount of money makes sense for you five hundred dollars thousand dollars whatever whatever would work for you you could be getting like the benefits of maybe the so hard work i'm doing in one place because we have a good relationship so that would be an example of indirect benefits i looked back at my career early on and i realized how few of the indirect benefits i realized were around me and i was like damn i ben i just asked that would have been easy like for for example my c cofounder at my last company fe he he had shares in app eleven that i think app eleven when he left was like worth like a few hundred million no it's worth like twenty twenty or thirty million it's twenty billion twenty one billion today so it's like it was two hundred or three hundred million i think what he left hey told me about i was like that sounds like a great company and then he kept telling me how great it was was like oh now we're doing this it's worth five hundred million it's worth a billion dollars and then it almost and and along the way he like needed money he was like hey can i like take on my salary like you know advance i'm like trying to buy a wedding ring for my wife whatever like i have a wedding to pay for he's like i'm gonna try to sell some my app eleven shares we sold some back to the company he's like yeah i i wanna hold on to these but like i just need cash to pay for like my wedding and shit like that was the indirect opportunity right in front of my face so i could've been like hey best friend well i why the richard's off you you know and instead was like doing my favor like you know shuffling money around to go easy on your a little bit it's not like we have a lot to to i didn't have a lot of excess cash but like whatever i was putting in the stock market like you know random ass you know like whatever companies they were i basically like i could've got the money so for example we had a bunch of wealthy friends i could've have said i could've do done what i do now was just say hey guys this is a great opportunity i've found it i've vetted it i can explain to you why it's good and if you agree with me you put up the cash and give me a carry for creating this opportunity this is my fear by the way of when we're talking about moving to puerto rico i my my fear is being it's not being relevant anymore and and missing on interesting things it's not like money making things necessarily but not being in the thick of culture right yeah i i feel that i anyway you why start rant about all that shit you were just trying to recap the episode but whatever no that's what i wanted i i didn't get talk to you much because then i had a lot of stuff on my mind but but the this that oh cool i feel like i could rule where i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on a travel never looking back