Joe Rogan Offers $100,000 To Vaccine Expert For A Debate, MJ Sells NC Hornets For Billions & More

you wanna know what i am pro a freak show i love a good freak show like when people start fighting in the middle of the street or there's a car wreck you know i'm stopping i'm gonna ask him to to pull that record a little closer so i could see like hey can you fill me it on the backstory what's going on like i love this going on fellas what what we got here i feel like i could rude to where i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on a live what's going on how are you what do you think i guess is the first time we've talked since dear dick since since you moved into a a small woman's bedroom or something what do you what is this where are you i'm visiting family for a month in brooklyn and i've had a rent a place it's impossible finding monthly rent like like a like a three month rental very hard to find so we use airbnb and it's the best i can do alright how's does it look does it look like victorian or something yeah it looks like i feel like my sister had this little princess bed growing up so runs you that what what you got today you gotta i could see your eager for something what you what do you have i'm eager for something and let me preface this by saying i'm not a political guy i'm not really conservative i'm not really liberal i'm not pro vaccine i'm not anti vaccine like i'm not i'm not liberal i'm not conservative i'm best described as aggressive i'm really i i like i not only do it i i just don't care it's big but you wanna know what i am pro a freak show i love a good freak show like when people start fighting in the middle of the street or there's a car wreck you know i'm stopping i'm gonna ask him to to pull that wreck a little closer so i could see like hey police can you fill me in on the backstory what's going on like i love go on fellas what what we got here when i yeah when i flew here i i flew here i you know and i download tv on my youtube app it was three episodes of cost that's the cap guy i am so what's caught eye what's the freak share that's caught eye so basically this joe rogan kennedy thing so here's the background robert f kennedy you know he's he's he's kennedy junior i don't i don't know what his acronym name is he he's a good like r r junior r j is that it so basically this guy he i actually saw him talk a couple times because i like went through an obsession with the kennedy family but he's robert kennedy who's jfk brother so he's jfk nephew he's running for president now and he's been doing the pod circuit he went on all in and then he recently went on joe rogan and i don't even know all the things that he said because i don't really care that much but he said a lot of things that could be categorized as anti vaccine so but and here's what happened this is the the cool part there's this famous professor and kinda famous vaccine guy who's been tweeting all of his opinions and everything he quit tweeted out that he says spotify has stopped even sort of trying to stem joe rogan vaccine misinformation it's really awful and from all the online attacks i'm i'm receiving after this podcast it's just observe and it's clear many people believe this nonsense now here's where it gets interesting joe rogan is a type of guy who doesn't normally respond to this type of stuff he kinda he he seems like he's got thick skin he doesn't really bothered by this but the same on the same day he replied and he goes peter if you claim what r j junior said is misinformation i'm offering you a hundred thousand dollars to the charity of your choice if you're willing to come onto the pod and debate him on my show with no time limit from there it it's snowball so now it's up to two point six million dollars of other people so bill act put up a hundred and fifty k dave rubin rubin a hundred k patrick bay patrick that david a hundred k i think even like andrew tate is now offering five hundred days now point jason ka can has come on with a hard ten k try to slip that in and say i i'm with you put me down for a put me down for a buck yeah well here's the thing i was like thinking about this i'm like should i hop it on this it just like say some number like gonna collect can i get collecting from these well no one's collect yeah how could i insert this and how can i insert myself into this situation but now it's two point six million dollars to get this guy on the show and i'm i'm i think he said so far that he's not going to do it and i just thought this is awesome i love a good freak show i love like i think that the we actually have a presidential candidate coming in our pod soon i don't know if you know this yet but i i've said it don't tell me i'd love to be surprised yeah i love a good it's guy he he he he started a pharmaceutical company yeah his name's vi and he like d he dm me like six or twelve months ago saying he's gonna run for president and i like laughed at it i didn't laugh at it i just didn't even respond which is you know what i'd love to do because i think that guy's kinda interesting but i think what would be more interesting is if we have because he's kind of let's say a you know ups start candidate or whatever like he's like you know not the favorite he's not the leading guy i would it would be great if we had two of the ups start candidates come on at the same time and so we could debate them because it's actually kinda of boring when you have one candidate come on and they just kinda monologue their piece for for for a a very long time like i've seen a bunch of these guys go on podcast and frankly it's kind of boring when that happens i would love to have like the most pip sq debate of all time it's like to us moderating don't know anything about paul don't not two candidates then only like half half a percent in the polls and we're just like it's this is the showdown hundreds of dollars don't able to charity what's the question you're gonna be like what your opinion on car crashes like we don't know anything like do you like website websites of breaking bad good or a little under overwhelming yeah like yeah call your wife right wife right now wanna talk to her i wanna see what she's gonna say about you dude like we don't know any but last time what was the asian guy who ran last year who like said love math angry yeah dude andrew he just did you run and say i love math i mean that's just like i think that was like blow it was like make math brady again i thought that's what it was but he he messaged me off a year well he messaged me before like one of our events health he's like hey i'm gonna run for president can i come talk and i was like he wanted you b vp i was like dude you're gonna make me look stupid by some crazy guy saying he's gonna run for president you're like that guy on the street who he like holds up a sign you know it says like aliens are coming i can't associate with that and then it turns out he kinda made a good run and so this time i was like i have to take this at least a little seriously and so that's why we have to have vi on but yeah what are we gonna have two guys being like pom ham or dot gov yeah yeah asked about their workout routines because we're gonna compare you on things that we value at in other men so you know like here's a situation person breaks into your house and we just see how they react and the reason i'm bringing this up is i'm not one of these guys that says like oh like i think jason cal said this he's like podcast are gonna shape the next president she said the next president will be we'll will be decided off of podcast podcasts or something ridiculous like that let me let me me look like by the way do we have a little beef with jason cal canvas he's kinda sliding into our mentions here he's he going in a little hot i gotta say i like jc cal but if if he'd like some internet beef i would happily be the recipient of some internet yeah yeah yeah the chef boy of me what's great grass fed internet be i'm excite me up i like jason too i've only hung out with him a couple times that he's always he's always been nice to me but he's been nice to meet me in like a rude uncle type of way where it's like pat you on the head he's like a compliment yeah yeah he's like oh that podcast you it's really great i think it's precious yeah you what i mean like he's like it's like yeah jason said he loved my startup but then he said he was cute at the yeah bad yeah and so but if if for the sake of entertainment i'm happy to i'm happy to to call them out i wanna do two things so first on your birthday i tweeted out you know just a little thing and then he he he came into i i tweeted out the thing i was like yeah happy birthday too and i i i made up a bunch of nickname i was like the vanilla gorilla the long arm of the law you know whatever the two percent milk himself sam par and i was like you know gave you a little shout like that just freestyle styling and he he replies with the the the like think face as if because i i was like what the hell is this what does this mean and then somebody met they were like oh i think he thinks you stole his stick from all in where he he gave them nickname like the sultan of science the queen of quinoa whatever right and is that of jason ka trademark yeah i was like oh oh yeah you think you started nick nickname can i nickname like the like turning left like is that a thing like can can we can we trademark blue yeah ridiculous it's a little weird so yeah i i do think he passes us in the head and thinks his but then there's was another another hilarious jason cali at this moment i gotta say from twitter so so i just replied and i said i said all in billionaires is talking about billionaire shit m m millionaires is talking about millionaire shit and you know i just like that's a that's a description so people liked it and then but someone someone said except years they ago oh you they go all in three billionaires and they're friend jason i was like okay again that's a good bird and they he came back and said you know a a bottom five lame thing you could say he goes more like one billionaire and three cent millionaires whatever just roll it the punch roll you never wanna say sent cent millionaire like that's like if i had to put someone with a hundred million dollars i would call the a ascent millionaire yeah like five eleven and a half yeah exactly is that way big five eleven energy that's really i do wanna challenge by the way i wanna challenge the all in podcast to to a poker game by the way i will play all of the all in podcasts i'll play all heads up and a game of poker so i will play them heads up i'll put up a hundred thousand dollars and and if they be if if if two out of the four beat me they get they get the hundred hundred grand but if i beat three or four out of the four i get a hundred grand from them they each out they only have to put up twenty five k and i'll play them heads up will live stream to win well live in the whole thing and i will go in order from cent millionaire to billionaire so i'll play jason first i a quick work of jason and then i'll go free berg sachs and then cha off at the end because i think they think chu off is the best player out of them so are you good i mean i i i i i know nothing about poker are you good i'm better than them that's all they need to know i mean they named their pod after it i mean they're they're basing their a little bit of their their brand on that my nickname is the nuts and if you know about poker you know what that means so so you know we we have our own nickname for ourselves alright let's get back to it i i don't know why i got on this chase account we could wrap up we could wrap up this little part but i'm not one to say like i'm not gonna make an absolute statement like jason did but i do think that there is like we are gonna see that this the the this little show that's going on right now is awesome for r k beneficial to him for sure i think i for sure and i think we'll see a little bit more of podcasting have a and here's why i think that this is inside baseball a lot of people don't realize this but so the hustle now is read by let's say three a half to four million people i have two hundred and fifty thousand followers on twitter i think precious yeah it's precious sean you had two hundred fifty thousand i've got two hundred fifty thousand followers on twitter you have three hundred fifty thousand the pod let's just say has a hundred thousand listeners per episode the pod consistently out lunches in terms of engagement all of those things i would say would you agree with that in terms of like people who actually like trust and will take action on things yes yeah one hundred percent so i do think that for people who don't realize or who aren't in the game they don't realize that podcast podcasts i have significantly more influence over people then i think any other medium that i've used or that i have access to i don't i don't have a big i think youtube do the same yeah podcast podcasts definitely do i i agree with you i think podcast podcasts are a bit but of a a little bit of a sleeper still which is you know depending on on on who you are but other people are are shocked at how effective podcasts are at sway opinion i wanna point out a couple other things so some people are saying oh jill rogan you're just doing this self serving thing you're just trying to have this this out this debate to like pump your ratings i would say not true at all look at somebody's actions not their words joe turned down having trump on his podcast he turned down having other presidential candidates on his podcast that he thought would just kinda be promotional or not a good conversation or bring unwanted attention to the pod like saying no to trump is saying no to ratings especially in the last election when he was or or or when he was kind of on the rise and he just said you know i'd rather not i'd rather not do that i'm not sure i'm the right person to moderate that debate and you know i don't think that they would be truthful i think they would talk talking points you know if i had hillary or biden on so i'm not sure that that's that would be a good thing so i think you can't really say that joe's just doing this for ratings i think joe actually i think joe actually thinks rf k i think he actually sides with rf k and says alright if you're gonna say this guy's full of shit come explain why and let him let him argue with you and let's see where where it lands that's the first thing the second thing is have you seen this guy this a scientist i saw what he looks like he looks like i would think a scientist like i mean he just looks like a a a nerd right like an older yeah it looks like a guy like cosplay neil d grass tyson so he so check out this clip do you take care of your immune system in other ways do you take probiotics are you cautious about your diet i'm not as cautious as about my diet is i should be i'm a junk food alcoholic that seems ridiculous for someone who works with healthy yeah yeah coming on with you man sometimes man i just i get it right so you live in large we call it like that mouth pleasure so much you willing to sacrifice a little bit yeah i you know i you know i i can i have to concede that's the case do you take vitamins i don't take vitamins real yeah wow i think they what about essential fatty acids which are great for your brain fish oil all these different things that are fantastic i'm i'm not gonna i'm not gonna argue with you you got you got you got it hand you got you got it over me yeah you got listen but it would you would have a much better argument you're you're making my wife's stay here if you're taking care of yourself a hundred percent instead of but you still need but you still need your vaccines i'm sure you do but vaccines aren't gonna prevent cancer no that's true we're gonna get you healthy buddy yeah can't be pushing only chemicals and injectable forms to facilitate health fair enough yeah or not chemicals or vaccines i'm sorry what's in them what it's not i mean it's some sort of chemical now no other antigens right they're they're fluid macro molecules what's the liquids typically it would be saline or you know saltwater so it's him on rogue that's it's the same scientist i believe on rogue and in the past peter his our hosts so he's he's talking and he's talking about vaccines and he says something about he says something but he he's very pro vaccine so he's like says something vaccines and joe's like yeah you know like not everybody feels good like putting chemicals in the bodies like not chemicals it's these are antigens these are you know cells and he's like okay well you know what i mean like just putting something else in your body like you know are you taking care of the main things and he asked peter he goes he goes do you do you do other things to be healthy because i peter's kind of like you know he's circular in shape and so and he's like well you know i i do i dabble in junk food and joe just starts pressing them and i've never really seen joe do this but i think he wanted to make a point he's like how how much are we talking like once in a while or like every day he's like no not every day like he's like so how often and he's like i don't like hey every other day he's like what do what do you have he's like potato chips or you know candy or whatever he's like do you exercise and he's like you basically this guy over like a two minute period is like yeah eat like shit and i don't exercise and jill like isn't that crazy like shouldn't you like you know better than that right like you're saying people are crazy for not taking vaccines or pushing against them but like you are not doing the basics of human health like you're not exercising you're not eating in a nutritious way like don't you see that that's probably like yeah should you know one's perfect he's like he's like do you really just love that mouth pleasure so much that you he like goes in on him a little bit which oh i've seen joe do he's like generally like quite like amenable like you know he's not really doesn't really do that but i think for him it is like you know he plants a flag around like you got it he's like it's non negotiable like you know he's like i know for me i travel somewhere first thing i do is i go to the gym it's just negotiable it's just something i do and then the other guy goes yeah i do that too and just like no i don't think you do that too like you gonna tell him look at his face he's like yeah but it's different maybe the way i'm doing it and the way you're doing it because look at what's happening here dude whenever i when i go and pick which doctors i'm gonna use like when i moved to a new said or something i definitely the their body matters right right you know don't want the bald barber yeah like i went to one doctor and she had this a beautiful vein up her bi and i was like but i'm in i'm in van i was in morning baby yeah dude oh yeah that's that's colors i also think that there's some other strange stuff about this sky like his daughter has autism and he wrote a book called like rachel's vaccines didn't cause rachel's autism or something like that which i just thought was like a really i don't know i can't imagine as a parent doing that that sounds like just very aggressive yeah so anyways it's just i i would say and it's funny to see the the debate here because some people are like there's on both sides there's the rogan you know macho bro which is basically like yeah bro showdown down let's go but you know you and mean to be behind the school of three pm they wanna see a fight yeah and they really just wanna see him like get pumped is kind of like one energy and then the other energy is like this is stupid this is not what scientists like trying to bully a scientist into debating when that's not his skill like this other guy's a he's a politician he's gonna have talking points for him all the stuff well he's not a politician he's not a pilot he's a wannabe be oh he's well he's yeah i guess trying to be currently but but they're basically like this one guy like you know this is what he's doing he's going around talking about the stuff he's been doing that you've i've been giving talks on the stuff for for a long time and this guy's is you know trying to just be a scientist he didn't sign up to be like kind of a debate of the stuff so that's like the other point of view and there's sort of like anti bro in that way of like you can't like stop trying to make this a fight that's like anti science to do that this one guy who i really like his name is sean wong he used to be he's like from the the from the tech world and he he worked at facebook early on he was the ceo of reddit oh he his a he he's a new company where he's was trying to plant trees yeah exactly he's trying to change that guy it changed climate by by planting trees i was just trying to read you what he said i thought he had i thought he had a good point so he goes every science tech person who's currently on the bandwagon calling for the vaccine doctor to go on rogue in the debate should be ashamed themselves if you care about the truth of science like kind of a podcast debate probably the worst thing to advocate for usually that argument go something like this if you're the back and you're so sure you're right you should be willing to go on and defend it otherwise you lose credibility that sounds like a good statement but he's like it's an example of what plato the philosopher would call rhetoric oral spell in simple terms what he's explaining is like there's a difference between what is actually the truth and what can be said in a very persuasive way and right you should want a medium where it's all about who could be most persuasive you should want to if you wanna debate to the truth you should do it in a way where per your charisma your persuasive your loudness you're on the spot thinking is d prioritize compared just like making your most logical argument and then letting somebody take time and refute it and he's basically like i call it the malcolm glad well effect you know like he he writes so well and even though it's theories i'm like oh it must be yeah exactly exactly you when you hear somebody who's so el you can you can con inflate how nice it sounds and how persuasive it sounds for how true the actual argument is and the vice versa somebody could be so dry and boring that even though they're saying something that's really on point the message is not received by the by the market so he basically says he's like you know if you really wanted to do this this is what you would do so i i guess just to finish the play doh thing it's basically or so just going in verbally you know giving like a speech or a presentation is the medium where you're most likely to have people fall under a great or spells and he's like people are more like sheep than you than you wanna think and a great order can get people to do crazy things and if you've ever seen hitler give a speech or you know mu to give a speech you could see how a great order for and you've seen it in the good direction in the bad direction how great order can move people to do something and believe something that may not they may not have actually believed otherwise so anyways his his point was like if you really wanna do this they should do it through long form boring writing one person should write down their argument with sources of cy give the other person time to respond to each each paragraph of that argument and then you'll have basically both sides of the argument written out nobody wants to do this because this is boring and if he actually wanted the truth though that would be the way and i thought that that was really good and it reminded me of something that was in companies that i had also seen from from usa sean's blog which was he was like yeah and company the same thing happens the person in a meeting who is tall charismatic willing to put their opinions forward basically they're a hundred percent confident in their opinion exactly sound familiar no i'm not holding up a mirror right now but basically that person is going to like disproportionately sway what actually happens and and actually there's another method so he basically it's called the delphi method and the delphi method is basically this method where you bring up a topic everybody sort of presents gets the same set of facts then you write down your initial thoughts and statements and then they're circulated everybody reads everybody's initial thoughts and statements anonymously you don't know who set this so you can't just sell the ceos thinks this okay i guess it's right you just judge it by the merits of the argument anonymously everybody reads it and then you can go revise your statement based on new information that you've got and you update it and you pass it around again until you get to you know a sort of like you know what what what people believe is the strongest strongest democratic argument after several rounds how do you spell that it's called the one d e l phi h i and there's a couple benefits of this first anonymous so it's not just like the the the highest ranking official gets their way second is it's time delay so you don't reward like for a great decision you don't need to think of the answer of like right on the spot like if it takes you five minutes to think of something five minutes is nothing but in a meeting five minutes is everything you can't just sit there quietly thinking and formulating an idea for for fifteen minutes or an hour or the meeting is over by then and so the argument has moved on by then so this time delay and anonymity nvidia is really important and i love this and i'll tell you i shared this with with the ceo twitch i was like i we i should do this he was like dude i love this this actually would solve one of our biggest problems i think we have in our meetings which is people think that my opinion is the answer is shouldn't be i'm actually usually the least informed on the topic because i'm the furthest away from the data and secondly like we reward the loudest the loudest mouth and not maybe the most thoughtful person who who could have an answer it's really hard in a in a normal meeting setting to get that person to speak then i'll give you one more data point josh el who's a an awesome dude friend of the pod he's a he's a vc plus like now he works at apple but he was basically like the growth guy at twitter the growth guy at linkedin the growth guy at facebook like he like led growth at like three or four of the robinhood robin he invested in discord he led growth at like four of the biggest consumer hits that ever been he for fun the other you know while he's kind like you know just kind goof off now he for fun built this slack app that does the same thing he's like you slack is kind of rewards the same thing like whoever's online the most gets to like say the thing in slack and he he created this app that was like a time delay so you anybody could prompt a question and then everybody has a certain amount of time like he in the question it'll say you have you know we'll we'll read the answers in four hours so anybody could write their answer within the four hour period what's it called oh thinking time is the name of it so just google josh thinking time it's a slack app and thinking time dot org is the is the url and basically it just gave you time and then you could say alright here's what i think i think x and then it tells you all the answers will be released together in thirty minutes and then in thirty minutes it posts everybody's answers at the same time to prevent group think and i just love this because i think these little like nuances actually can really change the way any group of people interact because i know i'm guilty of it all the time i'm i'm loud i'm persuasive but that doesn't mean i'm smart it doesn't mean i'm right and i like actively look for methods or tools to counteract that this is a awesome i'm gonna use these things i like that b in real time i just wanna call out what just happened this is called a good partner where i bring kinda shit and sean just kinda polish that shit and and we somehow get something these this is this is this is called chemistry my friend this is this is how it's done that was that was beautiful i didn't know you knew all the that stuff and you tied it around perfectly i'm actually was asking those questions and i'm writing notes i'm actually gonna go use this thing thank you your time yeah job and the delphi method that's awesome i've got a few more things but you wanna go do a quick one first i got a simple business opportunity for people so don't know you know this dude but so google analytics which is the most popular analytics tool on the planet is is just changed basically shutting down they're not saying it's shutting down they're like it's changing for the worst like i would love to see actually i wanna film a commercial on behalf of all marketers out there of the google fake google have fake google analytics commercial where it's like but what if we made it worse in every way what if we re thought it and removed all the key functionality and replaced it with big possible to you big analytics wouldn't that be better than precise analytics it's like and it's people wondering why i think the reason why is because of all the privacy stuff the cookie stuff so basically the same thing that happened to facebook where apple changed the rules the ios fourteen rules and all of a sudden facebook ad performance went down and it was like y geniuses over there why why why is performance down why don't you have attribution like why don't you know if i spent a thousand dollars on this ad did i make nine hundred twelve hundred what what did i make why can't you just tell me that you know i put your pixel on my website you know you're facebook here the biggest geniuses in the world it's impossible and the reason why is because now legally they're not allowed to like use this type of tracking that they used before where it's not a technical problem it's a regulation problem meaning the site that serves the ads can't also track the users on third party websites and this why portfolio company triple whale exploded one of my investments exploded in popularity and is now like you know on track to be this huge winner because let's say you owned into e ecommerce store and you were using facebook and you're spending like we spent hundreds of thousands on facebook ads every month we we have to know is you know how how are our facebook ads are performing and when facebook's ability to track that got cut off due to regulation people were like what's another solution and triple i was like hey we have this thing called triple pixel we can tell you more accurately than facebook how your ads are doing and so everybody signed up triple takes off that's amazing and so i think the same thing happened to google where google had to because of the privacy reasons be like alright you know what we yeah there's should a bulk yeah because of the ads business we gotta just you know lick a finger and and and guess you know roughly you got about this much traffic conversion etcetera and so not great so their upgrading a thing called ga four it's called the google analytics lack days ago that's like the new update yeah they're that's the google analytics ad for six beers and it needs an app yeah and every marketer i know hates this thing and also nobody knows how to migrate from google analytics two ga four it's like a there's like every time you log in google analytics there's just literally like a ticking countdown like it's you know season four of twenty four it's like you're yeah like your analytics are about to explode you need to go learn this new tool that by the way sucks and you need to migrate everything over because in fourteen days there's no more google analytics for you and so me and a bunch of other people are like how do you do this and we try to migrate over didn't we're like is this working i don't know if there's working out of the box and i think right now there's a very simple business opportunity for somebody to go be the ga four export expert put a ton of free content and be like i will handle your migration for you and you just called email every business owner that you can think of it maybe in the e commerce space that's where i would start but if not commerce saas businesses whatever and be like hey do you wanna help migrating over to ga four i'll do the whole thing for you it's done for you turnkey just pay me you fifteen hundred dollars and and do it i think you could i think somebody can make a million dollars in the next six months just migrating people over to ga four and auditing their ga four to be like hey it set up correctly just as a one person service business or a two person service business i agree i need it i need it we've been trying to like figure this out i i don't even not a set of reports i was out of the game for about a year and a half and then i came back and everything done changed i i don't know how to do it did you you know what else has changes and pronouns and google analytics what the hell just happened yeah two years off everything you guys doesn't work the same way anymore there's no office dude everything has changed another thing that's changed is newsletters like people are asking me like do we do for this newsletter and i'm like dude i don't know it's been two years and in that amount of time everything has changed like when we started the hustle it was us morning grew the sci and i always i don't like saying it this way because it sounds like it's a bigger deal than it is because it's not but we kind of like pioneered this very small industry and now people take it seriously and there's all these like agencies around it and they tell me what they're doing and i'm like i don't i don't get any of that i don't understand how any of this works it it just things have changed very quickly yeah yeah i was gonna say something but i decided to to to take the high road on on something i was gonna call someone out on twitter but i just decided not to do it i i think you'll know who it is but yeah i'll i'll avoid it okay i got another thing for you what how would you like to hear about a business deal that involves one of the goats that involves i like billions of dollars that involves a messy divorce let me tell you the story about michael jordan selling his team right now the charlotte hornets that was related to a divorce in a round way so the story actually so so a lot of people are looking at the story right now and they're like michael jordan bought this team for i think two hundred seventy five million dollars and it's about to sell for two billion dollars the the whole thing did he sell the whole thing majority owner i don't think anybody no don't think any of the nba owners own one hundred percent but i think he's the majority owner so he the valuation of the team at the time was two seventy five million and he bought it and now it's gonna sell for two billion dollars mj strikes again the go the ghost strikes again the guy's gonna make you know more money doing this than he ever made playing and more money on this probably than he made through his nike deal as well so you know found a new found a new way to like you know double his wealth but what's interesting is actually who owned the hornets before mj did so i don't know if you know do you know the story do you know who his the owner was it's got bob johnson does that sound familiar most generic name i raised i i know ap adsense well do you know the one that was the richest black man in america at a at a given time well okay we're narrowing it down no but maybe the guy who started the season so yes yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i listened to his his wife was his wife was like also the the head hon i think right him and his wife kinda of regular i'm not sure about that so he starts bt with like a he has fifteen thousand dollars of his own money he puts that in he gets five hundred thousand dollars from a guy named john malone and he's like look there's no cable network there's no channel that's caters towards black americans and he's like you know we can do this we can build this up and so they had music obviously so it's basically like the black mtv so they had music that award shows culture whatever bt is a winner and bt wins he sells bt to vi home for three billion dollars which is just an incredible outcome alright so he did he own the whole thing yeah they were i don't know what john malone got i don't if it was a loan or equity but like yeah he owned the majority of so after everything is all i'll ever after everything settles bob johnson is reportedly worth you know about a point and a half dollars one point three one to one point five billion dollars and he divers he puts a bunch of money into real estate he owns hotels so he owns hotel chains he owns you know bunch of different like assets basically but they're all kind of like cash cash heavy assets so building hotels that was a lot he had like i think a casino type thing or like some some gambling thing or whatever he needed money for that so he's put it out a lot of cash then he gets divorced he gets divorced and his wife gets four hundred million out of the one point three billion awarded to her in the judgment so that judge made a you know gave her a very nice settlement or very nice ruling guess who she mar a few months later the judge post no wife see you really know i don't know if there's a few months i shouldn't say that mary's the judge which is just an incredible wow that's an incredible and i went i honestly wasn't gonna tell the story till i heard that i was like oh i gotta tell the story just because that is that's how thankful that so so did did did but then they did they freak out afterwards and they'll appeal it or is that a thing that went in something i don't know think it was done so so he so this happens he buys an nba team so he buys the bob cats at the time for three hundred million dollars and i think there were like the expansion franchise basically and so but they're burning money so he's losing twenty to twenty five million dollars a year he loses another two hundred she buys it for three hundred then he loses two hundred million operating the thing and just operating expenses which is crazy because there's this famous phrase when it comes to nba teams that nobody's ever lost money running an nba team and all the owners claim they're losing money but it's really just like a negotiation thing against the players they don't want anybody to know how much money they're actually making or they'll run it at like a slight loss but the franchise values is appreciating like crazy so they're like oh poor us how could we ever afford to pay for our stadium it's like dude your you bought this for three hundred million it's now worth three billion like i think you can i think you're can afford it so he's losing money he's got all his money tied up in investment he's got a ton of debt he's using a ton of debt to build this thing he's like alright i need to turn this team around he hires michael jordan so he's like mike come come work for the bob katz you're from charlotte and you know come work for the local team you you run the team so he's michael's was running the team but bob is getting stretched for cash and basically he's got too much debt and his shit's all about to come due and so he's about to lose his entire empire because he can't come up with enough money to pay off his his his note and they're about to take all of the collateral so he's about to lose all his hotels on his his team do you think that in those situations which has happened a lot they go to the ex wife in the hey do you remember that time that i tried to make sure you got nothing but you still got something can we talk you know what i mean like i wonder if there's any i wanna i'm never this is where we had our first date you know why i brought you here i just wanted to see yeah any of those feelings left for me because i'm about to lose it all so he's about to lose it all and he's like okay i need to like sell the team or something but the team is losing money and they're the worst team the the sa team so he wants to sell it for like you know three hundred fifty million or something like that can't find a buyer mj comes to him and says alright i'll buy it i'm gonna bought i'm gonna buy it for i'll put down twenty five million in cash just twenty five million and i want it at a two hundred seventy five million dollar valuation so he gets like a twenty five thirty percent discount on the team because bob's under pressure and has no other choice basically he's like but here's what i'll do i'll assume all the debts of the team so i'll get you off this debt which will relieve the pressure on you so mj buys this team for only twenty five million down and now is gonna sell this thing for two billion which is like you know a hundred x cash on cash for him buying this team which is just an incredible move and yet another reason mj is one of the goats is a sure is that story popular i've never heard that no that's not popular that's that's a that's a m m original and m from classic soon to be copycat by all of our little fan everywhere who will take this and turn this into a thread a newsletter a tiktok and an ig real for themselves and so you know it'll be everywhere soon the one thing that the another interesting twist it's gonna be here's what it's gonna be called that's gonna be called like michael jordan made money he became a billionaire in ways you didn't even realize were possible and has nothing to do with him playing and has nothing to do with nike here's the story of how michael legit michael jordan turned twenty five million dollars i your hook for you too there's there is more to the story potentially so the team has sucked ever since jordan bought them and like basically he actually under performed like the team sucked the franchise values are down his franchise value should be up more than it is he said he didn't actually maximize the value on it but it just shows when you when you buy right it's hard to you know hard to lose money at that point the other rumor is that mj is only selling the team because he himself owes a bunch of money that's the other rumor i don't know if this is true or not but well there's always these crazy conspiracy theories that he's like a degenerate gambler and like there's always there was a i listened to a podcast called conspiracy theories and it was how the mob made him retire from the nba or something like that and they there was even theories that they killed his yeah that's that's the conspiracy that they killed his father because he owed money and that the commissioner told him you need to take a couple years off because we could suspend you but that's a bad look for you and us because you know of the gambling problem so just disappear so you know that's the that's the conspiracy theory who knows if that's true the other version of this is the guy who bought the team now is guy gabe pluck he's the guy that ran melvin capital which is the the hedge fund that the redditor did the wall street bets guys blew up in the games thing and so dave lost like five hundred million dollars and that they were his fund was about to go under and then he gets bailed out by what's his name ken griffin the rumor is that michael had given melvin capital a lot of money hundreds of millions of dollars to invest on his behalf and that they had lost it and so he needed cash and so that that's why he sold and now he sold it to that guy sold it to gabe which is pretty crazy this is this is juicy man this is this is a this is a juicy grape this is a this is a grape of a story i a lot of that is a big luck gray that is a lot of what what i just said is stitching together pieces because people don't come out and say everything but they do say pieces and then you kinda have to assume things in between the again and he's protected jordan protected pretty hard like i remember you do you remember that rapper millionaire yeah he told the story he he like because you know rappers love jordan because of well he's like a good like you know a black a black man succeeding and they love his brand and millionaire was like nah man jordan the worst one time i tried to get an autograph from him and jordan goes nah i don't give autograph or take pictures with n yes and like there's like the store at two million was like and he's like at the time he was like i was famous like not famous enough that i thought like jordan would bow down to me but famous enough that like i thought maybe i would get like oh nice to see you type at the and he's like i i got nothing i got nothing from jordan and he's an asshole and and i and and i i don't remember how he explained it but it basically i was like oh jordan not a nice guy not not not nice at all it's i would've have thought that it was like a story of like everyone knows that he's a jerk on the court but i would thought like oh maybe that just like ends when you retire but it sounds like maybe that's not the case yeah i don't know why that would anybody retire okay yeah so that's the that's the jordan story where you wanna go next alright i have got one interesting thing so everyone wants to say sean what's your e comm store tell me about it and you give out little n when you kinda tell people you know things are going well we wanna know what the problem with e com and also a lot of other businesses that we talk about the things that are somewhat easy to start the valuations are shit like a decent e comm business right now what do you think it sells for five times profit yeah one times revenue which is usually which is the same thing as five times offer for most of these so the thing is about is like a lot of these businesses that we talk about and what people initially start particularly like the really crap ones like a drop shipping or or things like that or an agency they don't really sell for a lot of money and so i like the research businesses that a can last a really long time a lot of e comm businesses well a lot of businesses in general don't last long particularly one's built off of facebook and things like that or it's a struggle at least and also b they sell for shit one type of business that i've brought up consistently is trade shows and the reason why is i've noticed a trend where a trade show business can last many many many decades sometimes there's many examples of them lasting a hundred plus years and these businesses that are okay like they're not that fast growing but they're good man they're consistently selling for ten sometimes fifteen times profit which is pretty good that can be three times revenue whereas a media property like the hustle if it's only okay that will sell for five times profit sometimes six times profit it depends how fast is growing but i was reading a flash flames this is like tiny tiny tiny trade publication that i read and they're telling this story about this guy named tony robinson he started this company in nineteen ninety one he started this company called uk i i believe it's uk i media and it was seo was screwed you don't wanna be tony robinson yeah yeah he's here for a bunch of reason but he like never never gets interviews he's like a pretty low key guy but it's called uk eye media and events and you could go to the website if you click it it's like it looks old it doesn't look special and most of the people in the pictures look like they're above sixty years old so it's like not like particularly new looking or they're not at least trying to like be cool and but here's what's interesting so they own seventeen b2b to b trade shows trade shows and they own a couple magazines but almost all the revenue comes from these trade shows and their biggest one is a twenty four year old thing called the automotive testing exposition or expo and it's basically this is like a niche amongst niches it's not a car show it's a trade show and a core exhibition that has it's where the people making the machines that help you test if your car works so if you're building a tesla or ford or whatever you're constantly testing like your new self driving system or you're testing like i guess different new components in the lcd screen things like that there's people who are building machines to test that this is a trade show for those people and i was like doing more research about this and he was saying he goes i chose i chose specialize in transportation and avoid developing products in or what's he say the whenever i actually i was gonna quote something it's not that interesting of a quote but here's listen to the revenue two thousand nineteen they did thirty two million with thirty percent margin so they made ten million dollars in profit let's skip two thousand twenty twenty one they only did eight million dollars in revenue how they still did eight million dollars in revenue during those periods i don't know two thousand twenty two post covid revenue of twenty six million same margin of around twenty six so they did six point seven million in profit two thousand twenty three the expectation is thirty in revenue nine in profit and there's a rumor that they're about to sell for around twelve times profit so there this thirty million dollar a year trade show business is about to sell for somewhere between a hundred and a hundred and twenty million in revenue and he's done this multiple times so he had one for aircraft interiors expo so like people building aircraft and interiors he sold that for ten times profit he also had a magazine company that he's sold for only four times profit but he's done this multiple times and there's this there's this guy in hampton his name's jonathan wei he's done the same thing he did money twenty twenty he did shop talk and i think he did one more he sold each of them for around a hundred to a hundred and fifty million dollars and it was like thirteen times profit i'm gonna ask him to come on the pod but it's just crazy that these trade shows are consistently selling for ten or thirteen times profit now here's the the opportunity if i'm one of if i'm listening to this pod and i'm trying to start a business what i would do there's a whole lot of niche twitter handles there's the strip mall guy there's the used car salesperson guy there's the used watch guy i don't know this for sure but i bet i'll it's not just you and i like a pop culture type of person who's just like paying attention because it's fun and we're outside but i bet there's people like the strip mug guy and i bet there's dozens and dozens of other people like that who are in these really niche in which the actual industry insiders follow them and they get they get a kick out of them it could be like the motor home guy or it could be the i don't know whatever it is i think you could partner with some of these people and build these trade shows because the way that these these particular this guy tony robinson the way that his thing works is i think access to the events are free but what they do is they hire salespeople people and they pay their salespeople a lot you give them i think he even says in the article it's like eighty grand a year base but up you they can earn three hundred thousand dollars a year but what they do is they sell spots or or boots at the at the trade show and they create a map where you can like see it all in different it's just like real estate different locations can get higher prices and it's basically like you know it's not like a conference like what i used to do hustle con or ted talk where you're going to like watch content like the content is not important you might have speakers but that's just to attract the right type of people it's really to do business and so this small i bet there's a lot of like ten thirty forty million dollar year businesses that sell components that sell toyota it's like just your door handle i don't know something and they do business there and they say alright great i got five leads that was five leads i can probably get a few million dollars if i can close one of those leads so it's worth it for me to pay fifty thousand dollars i think someone could do some of these trade shows with a lot of these industry insiders on twitter and i think that's an interesting opportunity and i think it's significantly better than many of the other opportunities including agencies that a lot of people are starting online it's harder like if it if there's bad weather you're screwed or if there's a pandemic you're screwed but these things can sell for way more money and they can actually last for dozens and dozens and dozens of years so that's my pitch on trade shows in the in a small opportunity yeah i love it i think that's great nobody talks about trade shows more than you in my life and i was stunned when i heard about that guy who did shop talk money twenty twenty and i think they did the health care one i forgot what that one was called those are it's really really remarkable i don't fully understand it meaning what don't you understand like let's kinda walk through it so basically what's the draw to get the attendees to attend how do you tell the what what is the value prop for the attendees is it meet others in your industry is it see these vendors up close and personal is it listen to these famous peep three famous people will talk what is the core draw well i think it's all the above but let's go through each one first one you didn't mention is i think sometimes it's like oh sick i could justify a free trip to florida like i'm gonna go hang out with people and also say oh hey bob who is not really our competitor but he's in our industry he might be there so maybe i can go and shoot the shit with bob and hang out with him but i could bring like eight of my teammates and we can justify this trip i think that's definitely a thing the second way that you get the so it's all about this is a marketplace so you need the attendees to be there the second place or second way you get there is you need like interesting speakers so it could even be someone who's not even related yeah but it's like oh wow this one person like gary wan vaynerchuk like that's not really in our industry but like whatever like i would i've always wanted to see what he had to say like alright cool i can get that person and then the third one is let's just see the latest and greatest technology and so we can spend one day like getting each to know what's going on in our industry but i really think a lot of times it's rooted and i wanna get out of the office and i can justify this three thousand dollar ticket and i can get five of my coworkers workers to go and it's an easy justification but in this one they're given the way the passes is for free is that correct the this uk i think when i went to their website they advertised free passes so that's the extent of my research gotcha okay and then in money twenty twenty they charge people right and so how do they sell those tickets how do they how do they build the brand from scratch is it content first free content then they lead up to it or are they just called emailing what you what do you know about how that guy jonathan wei or whatever's name is how they did it well so that's why it helps to have some type of audience and so what you'll notice is a lot of these companies their trade show and media businesses so oftentimes they'll create a blog or magazine in order to get some type of audience and then they'll use that to like use their authority to sell tickets but other times i think what you can do is you can just cold email a bunch of people to be honest i think that in order to get look i when the first year that i did hustle con i charged three hundred dollars and i was a nobody so like i didn't have an email list i had nothing i got the right speakers and i was able to get four hundred people to come and that was only in six week's time i think it's actually significantly easier then you think if you go into a niche to just tell a handful of people and those handful of people tell handful of people because a really successful show in a particular at a small ish niche you can do a lot of damage with a thousand or two thousand people but then you really start making revenue after year for would we do off m mfa let's say we could get magically get somebody to organize this whole because we don't wanna do it what could we use our distribution for that would be awesome well i would never wanna do this because i think this because the the value here is low but podcasting so you could do a podcasting point you know we have thirty friends who are big ish named podcast you could do a podcasting trade show where you have like what are we using now riverside riverside would be a booth and like fuck i don't know like all the shit w is what it's just like like the podcast the business side of podcast podcasting is just so small but like oh man but small good small good the pro the problem is is that the contract values is yeah exactly the issue you need something where people spend millions of times so the was but like but would you ever wanna go you don't leave your house so but hypothetically a person like you would you wanna go and like shoot the shit with some other guy who's a little bit ahead of you and like just hear best practices yeah that's fine maybe okay so podcasting is one what else i don't know dude what what what are you interested in oh it's not what about what i mentioned this what do you think what niche do you think what type of niche do you think would work so for example these these guys are doing auto parts and all the automotive industry because it's b to b a bunch of people are selling you know high priced things we've seen that money twenty twenty was like hey fintech is gonna be a thing let's just make the number one i i don't even know if those are trade shows as much as they were conferences but like let's make the fintech conference let's let's make the e commerce conference it's kinda what they tried to do with those to like ride and ups start wave we could probably do something either involving investing or high net worth people so where and your your boosts are different type of like a question that you and i and our friends constantly asked each other like does anyone have like a an accountant to they trust or i am having this tax issue what are some lawyers that i can trust i think you could do something in that vein i would have to narrow in and what it what it would be i think you could do something like that where like one for a particular law firm can earn hundreds of thousands of dollars in a lifetime of fees or or or a net worth or a financial advisor could i think you can do something in that bank but by the way we've been to a couple of these farm con i think is is exactly this so that's for the agriculture industry we went to that another one is back when i doing the sushi restaurant i remember we've somehow we're at the qs r i don't even know what it's called is the qs r event and i just remember that the ceo the guy who created it his last name was hamburger and i was like like i've never forgot what what's the name of that effect where people end up living up to their name like there's like some there's like a whole subreddit about this so reddit people or he does a big juicy guy i mean what would just just basically this just the idea of somebody who's named john hamburger ends up creating the quick the the fast food trade show like you know you saying bolt is the fastest man on on earth like this is just too good to be true like if you're that wolf of franchise guy who we like on twitter like you definitely get this what he should do you could pull up you could pull off something like this now it's really the logistically it's still like this isn't easy this is this there's some challenges but it's not easy it's a problem that's been solved tons and tons of times like it's a it's not like you're inventing we're not inventing anything new this is a a s this is we're selling t shirts you know it's still like revolves logistical issues but like it it's it's not you're not inventing anything yeah yeah that's cool alright well i think that's that's good i'm gonna save my other topics for the for the next episode did that not tickle your fancy it does it seems like you you know it's good when i'm slack in the background because i'm just like oh here's a half baked idea here's a half baked idea of what what could happen i think the trade shows up is actually pretty fascinating and i like you know i think there's two ways to approach a business one is like what do i love to do and let me just follow the like follow my curiosity follow my natural like scratching my own itch type of thing and then the other is like the cold calculating like alright let me work backwards from businesses that sell with high multiples and i'm just gonna go fishing over there because i don't know i don't know what my passion is so i might as well just go calculate the best opportunity i've actually done both in my life both can work you can win both ways i think it is better to win when you file your passion but like but i but if you're not gonna do that this is a fun way to to reverse engineer what business you should be in and i don't wanna say this as like an absolute thing but it appears as though the comp that there's lots of buyers for these businesses because the way that like there's a handful of publicly traded companies as well as some really like a heavy heavy heavy backed pe companies where what they do is they just buy like eight of them and they put them together and they do send synergistic stuff to reduce costs and whatever and it seems as though it's a very very high buyer market whereas like e com for example i don't know if agencies are like this i i i don't know they might be they may not be but some of the things that people start they're they seem a little bit more difficult to sell whereas these things aren't as difficult to sell totally that's right good stuff alright that's a good upset i like that one that's the pod i feel like i could rule word i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on a travel never looking back