How a guy turned 3 YouTube Channels into $3 Billion Dollars

i gotta tell you about a youtube story okay so this is a story of how a guy found an underrated opportunity in the youtube market and turned into three billion dollars i feel like i could rude world i know i could be what i want to from at all in in like a days off on a road less travel never looked so there's this guy renee and renee discovers an opportunity sam do you know what the most viewed youtube channel is most views on youtube do you know the obvious answer would be mister beast the second mister beast number thirteen why why we talking about number thirteen i'm talking about number one sam okay do i do the bro move where i under guess so you quit no i i'm gonna say some type of indian thing probably like a korean number one is t series it's indian music so it's just like a like all the famous poly songs but do you know what number two is i don't no idea coco mel coco mel yeah god it does your kid watch coca too young maybe i refuse to let her watch coco bell because it's crack it's very crack so by the way number two number five number six number seven those are all just like coca they're basically kids entertainment channels but by the way couple of them are like russian and ukrainian in the top ten of all views so ko was this channel that was actually started back in two thousand and six two thousand and seven this dad who was like an animator slash like filmmaker and his wife who i think was like a cartoon for children's books they noticed there's like oh there's like nothing good on youtube for kids and so they start creating very simple animations for for kids on youtube just like literally they're if you go look go to their channel and you click pop click oldest and the very old the oldest one i think it's like eighteen years ago is a video that's like the abc b song it's a forty second video praise and if you go look at all the oldest ones it doesn't look like ko mel today there's no character there's no like kid jj j there's no like crazy cracked out animations there's nothing there's just like literally they're just doing nursery rhymes so it's like abc b twinkle cold a little star blah blah black sheep all the hits and so those start getting a lot of views and for like ten plus years it's just them doing animations no sponsors no no merchandise no gimmicks no nothing they're just living off of youtube ad revenue they got a small team they got twenty people ten plus years wow so that's a grind they did that there's another story blip i don't know if you're familiar with blip blip is sort of like a guy who sings but it's like many guys now yeah yeah they've switched at the character but basically it's a dude who wears a blue suit with orange overalls and a bow tie and he's like yeah it's baby what baby right and he's like basically he just goes to like abandoned like an not band and i should say that like kids like play places when they're closed and he goes in any place in them and he's like films himself playing in the in the play place any he teaches you things or whatever at slightly educational slightly fun channel wait where you're gonna say blip is recording a a abandoned plate like a a a a abandoned warehouses like is abandoned play place like there's no one there but they're not advantage i thought you'd be like today's special word is t like if dude like a you say rabbit wow so blip this guy basically sees that his i think is niece or nephew or something like that is watching these like really low quality videos of tractors like you know like kids love trucks and tractors he's like man looks like my kid loves this or my nephew he loves this tractor video and so he goes and he makes one if you get same thing go to little blip channel you click all this you'll see it's a video of a tractor going through a field and his next one is like another tractor video and he's on green screen with it he's not even neuro tractor he just green screen himself on top of it and so he starts creating this and he starts getting a lot of views and so what happens is there's this guy renee and what renee does is he decides to create a pe roll up but around these kids youtube channels and the opportunity is that renee worked at a company called maker studios do you remember maker yeah it kinda ended up being like they were the hottest thing going and they raised money at billions of dollars evaluation and it didn't exactly live up to that but it kinda created like it was like so innovative that a lot of the employees were went and did amazing stuff is that right kind of yeah so basically they were early on to the youtube professional rationalization and what they were trying to do was they created what's called an mc a multi channel network and you know what does that mean it's sort like an agency like a c for youtube talent so for some of they would own the channels and then the talent would operate them for others the talent own their own channel they would do the brand deals but like instead of you the one youtuber negotiating your brand deals they would go to you know whoever coca cola and negotiate for all thirty channels on their network right so it's like creating a like a television channel but on youtube and this idea sounded really good it just wasn't a really good idea it's tried and failed many many times right it was one of these startups have to be real very wary of because they it's reasoning by analogy so if you ever hear like you elon talk about like reasoning from first principles which is basically you take like solid truths like logic and you build one lot logic block on top of another like a stack of legos that all click together in a chain of logic the reasoning by analogy is to say yeah we're c but for youtube you don't really understand the underlying assumptions about how youtube works and how hollywood works is totally different there actually doesn't need to be a c for for youtube or it wouldn't be that valuable if you were the c of youtube but it raised money and it was a a very hyped thing at the time they actually ended up with a good exit to disney i think disney bought them for seven hundred and nine hundred million dollars something like a big exit but it was a like kind of a failed company and it failed inside of disney it like could be an okay business just not a good business that acquire not millions yeah not hundreds millions in funding good business there are plenty of these like agents creator agencies on tiktok and twitch that are like bootstrap that'll do like a few million dollars year profit good for them so what happened so renee he's at maker he didn't start it but he works there and when disney acquire it he goes to disney and he becomes like the head of like digital content internationally so like you know some title there and what he realizes is he says here's the opportunity he goes when i was at maker i realized that kids youtube videos were getting tons of views but they were overlooked by traditional pe and media companies because they you know basically they look too jan to be taken seriously he said of the top hundred most viewed children's bands online none of them were owned by big studios so he's at disney he's like look at the top hundred channels kids channels on youtube none of them are owned by disney or pixar or like any of the major studios and his c founder who was at paramount at the time goes yeah also none of those none of those youtube channels if are getting all these views have streaming deals because the streamers say we need the content to be exclusive and though youtubers are like exclusive i mean youtube is my bread and butter why would i take the content off of youtube so they were just like my we're not doing a deal so they get together and they started stack ranking and they basically made a simple criteria so they said i want something that has high views and has like a a quality ip so like it has a brand name it has a character that people might might associate and love something you might buy a plush doll of someday like you'll biased us a toy of this this thing he goes if they have both of those i'm interested and straight out of the gate they raised about a hundred and fifty million dollars and they raised all this money saying we're gonna do this roll up and they do three deals so shout out to the the roll up europe bee behind newsletter because he had the details on this nobody but ever all the traditional media they only have the surface level details some guy on bee has like a really detailed breakdown of this because these companies are based in europe and so they're all at listed in company's house so he was able to like go see literally how how much did the ceo make and the headline of this story is they take that hundred fifty million dollars they start buying up these channels and four years later they exit this to blacks stone for three billion why they technically can't they they exit to candle candles back by blacks stone that's where candle got the the money but they sell for three billion dollars how much revenue was it making so they'll they break it down they go and they buy coco mel for a hundred and three million dollars ninety two million up upfront eleven million contingent okay so a hundred million on ko seventy million on blip of which only twenty six million was up front forty five million was contingent and then little baby bump was the third big one that they bought and little baby bump had also nursery rhymes and whatnot and they did that for sixty five million so that's that basically and they at at that point they had raised more money of of equity and debt and so they raised about four hundred million in total equity in debt to create the three billion exit so like a ten return roughly on the capital that they used to buy these channels and in four years literally through m and a they were able to create three billion dollars of value here's what they did so here's the revenue so their company called the the holding company called moon bug so moon bug basically twenty nineteen is sort of like a twenty million dollar of year business twenty twenty it's about a fifty million dollar your business then it goes to one fifty then it goes to two hundred thirty million dollars with a hundred million in eb before they got taken it out holy shit it was doing a hundred million in eb in only four years exactly and the founders of this thing so each of them cleared renee makes three hundred million for this four years of work his c founder makes three hundred million the head of m and a made sixty million and the cfo made like twenty or thirty million dollars in the role up and the rest went to the investors when they bought these companies did they need to be great at operating youtube or was the they were so good at incentivizing blip or whatever that they're like just keep going you're doing fine you get this much of your payout if you hit this and that so these businesses are are simple and complex at the same time what do i mean by that one a lot of the views are just gonna come on the back catalog so you know it's it's still wheels on the bus it's twinkle twinkle a little star that is racking up views every single month you don't have to do anything on those videos i'm not sure if you're saying wheels in the bus as analogy of running a company or you're literally referring to the saw wheels in the bus yeah the song and so they the back catalog gets a lot of use what they did which are smart so coco mel wasn't originally called coco mel i was originally called check gate which sounds like a baggage company dude reminds me of it sounds like the cult remember the the cult there where they all killed themselves it was like heaven's gate check gate okay so yeah how to not familiar with that not i need a brush up on my cults yeah so check it and then they rebranded it to abc b tv which if you watch the videos it'll still start abc b kid tv and then it starts the song then they rebranded a coco mel but that's like in twenty seventeen or something like that like it was a long time it was like ten plus years into the company that they rebranded and that's when they introduced jj and the characters and the colors and then so basically that's where you get the characters same thing with blip they had blip they take out the main guy they had they replaced him with a like a rotate like a like an actor basically because he's ready to move on and they also introduce mic this like diverse character who could come in and like appeal to a wider set of it so they're doing like moves in the content yes but the other moves they did was they got it on the streamers so they got it on the netflix it's now the most watched kids thing on netflix is coco mel then they go into the toys business and they're doing you know millions and millions and toys and licensing and so you know you they built out the full like suite of business basically around these they do blip me the musical it's a live tour that's going around the nation and that's you know selling out you know basically these tickets me and my family we all went and this you know there's not a empty seat in the house and so like these things are like they turned them into you know rocking and rolling in businesses they kinda use the disney playbook right which is like create massively loved ip and then monetize it through everything except for they just didn't do theme parks have you seen on south park where mickey mouse is you know comes off as this nice guy but behind the scenes he's trying to convince the jonah brothers that they better where their virgin rigidity rings or their chastity rings because they're wanting to like have sex and he's like you better put that fucking ring back on like like first of all incredible impression yeah you like to feel three seconds before you did that before you committed you know there is no when you're taking a risk you cannot paint the world where it's only upside you have to accept that they're everybody's potentially downside outside these are the things i tell myself before i've ever taking a big risk and i thought about that i'm a risk taker yeah i'm a risk i do impromptu impression sometimes that i've never done before but that's what i imagined renee to he's like listen blip i do need to put that fucking tie on and i need you to get out there and dance like what what blip is like asking for a raise what's the hard part about this business is it or convincing people to sell no i don't think that was that hard because they had a huge check and the huge check helps you know like i think at the time i think ko mel had done like eighty million in revenue or something like that that year and then they bought them for a hundred so they bought them you know probably like at a five x multiple or six multiple of profits or something like that i i don't know exactly the multiple but i'm guessing they offered them like hey here's a bunch of money that you could have and like you've been running for like you know years doing this on this treadmill fix and like what if we could help and what if we could take you to the next level you don't know those people oh i golf with the guy from netflix oh i used to be at paramount oh i've i was at disney i can help you get to the next level break down doors that didn't seem like they were open the hard part was picking up the gold on the ground so this happens a lot in business it's like these ideas are just sitting on the ground and it's the hard part is somebody taking a very simple idea very seriously so to say yeah you know that silly like nursery rim channel i'm gonna go raise a hundred and fifty million dollars from like whoever goldman sachs to go and and acquire these and you have to say that with a straight face when there's no track record of that you know you have to really pitch a a strong case and i also wonder and you would actually have good insight to this because you worked at twitch i wonder what opportunity looks like so for example when you explained renee renee inner dialogue of like hey look at all the top one hundred channels none of them are owned by pe or they all are just kinda like these mom pop shops this seems so obvious but i wonder what that inner entered dialogue actually was with uncertainty in the same way where i don't know anything about streaming but used to work at twitch and then i know that like there was that there was like two new video get kick stream or i forget but like i wonder if a twitch employee could've have looked at in like these there's an opportunity here here's a gap because i could see the data therefore we should support this other thing what was the other one called kick there's there's mixer there was kick yeah youtube as on facebook other their on actually you know there was a time where we were before twitch acquired us we were building like a tool in the ecosystem we were getting to know a bunch of the streamers who were using our tool and we were like look this tool like the hard part is this tool like kinda caps out at like a hundred million if we if we win if we win the the size of this is like a hundred million and we think and the problem is that the platform worth like five billion how do we do the five billion thing and we're like we'd have to create another platform like okay well there's the technology part of it that's hard but doable the hard part is getting the streamers and getting the network effect to go like how do you break the network effect of something like twitch and what you realize is that a very small number of streamers drive a huge amount of the viewership so in theory you could get those streamers together and you could say hey we're coming over here and so i actually went pitched my investor now i i should i shouldn't say pitch because it wasn't i wasn't fully committed i wasn't sure that this is a swing we're taking but i was like i think what we would need to do wouldn't it be me if we did this i was like need energy gross and some sort of event where we get a hundred of the that we get all the top hundred streamers in a room together and basically we need to make them an offer they can't refuse we need to make that we need basically over pay the top hundred and you know the thing is with the top hundred even if they're making five million dollars a year and you're offering them three x that four x that whatever it is okay you need five hundred million dollars to do this and they need to say yes which is hard but if you have five hundred million dollars you could create a platform is gonna be worth five billion dollars like you it's not that much more complicated like once you have the streamers you've got hard part you could build all the other stuff you build the chat you could build the streaming technology you could build the the bits so you could build the subscription feature you could build all the other stuff you would need to build but you'd have to get the main creators to come over and you have to have the sentiment be this is where you need to be not to twitch really that's the really really hard part and so we were like i don't know it's kind of a crazy idea we didn't end up doing it when we got acquired emmett takes me out to drinks the night we the deal closes and we go meet this bar in the mission and we're talking and i was like yeah like you know it's kinda like you could put your cards on the table now the deal done and i was like yeah you know actually he were talking about something i said you know one of the things that i thought about doing was i realized like you know we did the math who realized these streamers mad the most if we paid them this much i think we could could've got them you know seventy percent of them maybe to come over and like that could have cost like some waves and he's like yeah actually we've thought about that so what we had done was we we made it so that none of their all their they're on contracts with us unlike youtube so like on twitch they actually have like multi year agreements with twitch and he goes we just made it so that they don't expire at the same time so we always aligned it where for the top streamers they're all ending at different times so that nobody would ever feel safety in numbers to move to another platform as a giant group because they could never get their contracts to align that's why is emmett yeah i say i think in reality that actually wasn't the case and in in truth the streamers just could have like moved over and there's nothing twitch could have done about it like the contract wasn't you have to stream here the contract was you only get this deal if you stream here meaning like you get this race shit this that maybe the split or this minimum guarantee whatever right but like the reality is if twitch went started suing streamers that would have been horrible for their own business they would never do it which is why multiple streamers did take money from mixer and kick and others and they left and shouldn't doing anything about it so like the reality was a a more high agency version of me you could have actually tried it and it would have been probably would have been more worthwhile my time than what we did with the tool because the tool never had the upside this is a great story i wanna know like the update i wanna know what happened and how did you know how much money he made i told you my guy on d he basically went to there there his l renee l see or whatever you know the equivalent of llc is on company's house you could see the two hundred eighty million dollars hit the bank in a certain year they had to report that and so he kind of did all the math and he also had their cap table like their waterfall so it's actually kind of nerdy and interesting and that the way they structured the deal was basically with investors they the founders who were doing the roll up were basically entitled to somewhere between twenty two to twenty eight percent of all proceeds of the roll up alright so that was like their profit participation at the end so whatever we sell this for we get between twenty two percent to twenty eight percent investors are gonna get the rest wait that's that's insane that's different than equity no it's like equity but it's basically like you know you have equity but then you have let's say preferred equity right or you have like liquidation preferences you know you can have rules you can have strings attached to equities so did not know that what they did you did because in this happens all time right when a company raised money they rated preferred shares preferred shares me mean they get their money back first so even if i own twenty five percent i don't necessarily get twenty five i i guess i just assumed if this is a pe firm the rules are different and like it was like for example it was like tied to the carry or something like that so what they did was it was based on the the multiple of the invested capital the mo right so it's like if it was under three x return so they they raised four hundred million if it was gonna be under three x return they were gonna get like only nine percent of the proceeds or something like that like a lower percent audit it but they hit ten ten x right so they hit the the highest tran which was basically they got their ten percent of sweat equity plus eleven percent of profit participation so they got like twenty two percent or something did they use any of their own money to start this i think renee was an investor but i don't know how much yeah this guy's is great that's a good story i have a life update for you okay stay and i i wanted to share because i think it's i think it's fun but i also think that there's a lot of people who can learn from the situation that i'm in because i think they're in so situations so the life update is my partner joe and i we are now the ceos of my company hampton and the life update is basically i'm going like pretty much all in on it and i wanted to explain a quote that i read that made me wanted to do this so we like or at least i like palmer lucky do you like palmer lucky yeah sure why not palmer lucky we had him on the pod like three years ago two years ago and i have been just fascinated with his way of thinking and he had this interview come out i linked to it on the bottom of our document it was with tablet magazine and i think he came out with this in twenty two maybe and i wanna read it to so palmer lucky is the ceo of and it's a thirteen or twenty billion dollar company something like that also created oc so he said at some point in business and in life and then rose romance you have to commit to a path a lot of my peers in the tech industry do not share this philosophy they're always pursuing everything with optional oh i need to be able to raise money from anybody i need to be able to sell my business in any way i need to have liquidity in any way i to make sure that i'm not closing myself off to a future romantic partners i need to make sure that i've got my options open i need to make sure that i'm not gonna buy a house and lock myself in or having children i don't know i'm not ready i don't wanna commit to that path and keeping their options open they they ensure that they're going to jump from option to option and if they don't commit to a path they're going to fail at it you have to commit to make it work and i think marriage is the same way you just have to commit to it you have to say this is the path that i'm on for better or worse and i'm going to double down and i thought that is a great quote that really stuck with me when i read this and i realized that with my business hampton i had hired a ceo for it and so i wasn't able to like really from day one right i think that's something day month eight so i got it to a million in revenue he scaled it to eight figures in revenue and then i am now taking over and so from but because of that i wasn't able to like you know put my influence on it you have like respect your ceo you has to respect to the manager in charge and i hated that ida was not a fan of that and i think that on this podcast we talk a lot about that and it sounds cool and then i'm sure it's great for a lot of people but it wasn't great for me and the reason i wanted to bring this up on the pod was because a lot of people you see doing this they called it like a whole company a holding company or whatever where they're like doing a lots of different stuff because we we glam it because if it works i'm sure it's great if that is your main thing and i was starting to think oh that would be great i would like to do that i realized i don't wanna do that i just wanna do one thing in this quote like really inspired me that that's like really what i care about now let me ask you couple of questions you weren't doing a hold company the holding company though you weren't just doing hampton already yeah so why the switch where you go from being founder chairman type person to i wanna be the ceo or actually c ceo not even be the ceo why that i realized that i wanted to have full control because i wanted this to be a legacy creating company i wanted to just put my texture on it but also when i realized i hate remote work i hate it more than anything and i wanted to create an office where i live in office culture because those are some of the greatest memories that i have you and i used to work across the street from each other at the corner of bush him montgomery right was it pushing my montgomery yeah i loved that intersection just walking out and seeing the action and see my employees upstairs a be able just like go for lunch and just like like shooting the shit during brakes i loved it and i just felt that this was a really good way to make all of my selfish wants come to reality right yeah that's great and you know i think that a lot of people are probably feeling this right now because everybody went remote during covid and now we're what two three years into that that full remote decision and at first you have the honeymoon period remote look at this i don't have to commute i don't know if to even get dressed don't gotta wear pants i just gonna top up here we go you know oh this is great i could see my kids and then you're like god i can't get away from my kids yeah i haven't left a house in weeks you know or whatever like you you start to see some of the consequences of the negative side of of those decisions and i think the biggest one for you and me at least i felt this is i i missed just being creative and ser with my team so it's like a have a team right and b be able to just whiteboard sticky note go for a walk go for lunch like i brought diego out here so diego was living on the other side of the country living on the east coast in baltimore how long has it been now diego has been out here for a couple months two three months something like that how has your life changed for the gun dude way better first of all i get to kinda still do basically what i do but now i just have a buddy to do all of it with right so it's like i kept the same schedule it's like in the morning he comes over the first two hours of my day are like my creative block right or it's just i'm i don't do anything else i just write on i podcast or i you know read i'd i only do something on the creative side it's like a creative gym session it's like going into the gym but for creativity alright we do that when we do that together now it's great and then my trainer comes over we work out together he's always he's working out with my trainer now so it's great yeah you know we do it we do a hard workout there we go grab tacos at while we're grab you guys are like a prison gang man that sounds exactly like a prison gang you you we just need some dude yeah i promise only it's just like old retired people around us but if they go start a beef i i do have some neighbor beef i could i could actually just double down on that know that i think about it so i thought them all boy get blown into your yard i'm sorry i don't control the win so but then when we go and what i told i'll go notice this dude of our best ideas how many of them have come while we're were at this taco shop because there's something in the creative process to like the bounce as they used to call the pickup artist game that in in in the book the game they talk about this technique called the bounce like you're at the club or bar you meet someone if you really wanna like accelerate your connection with that person don't just stay there for another hour with them just be like hey let's go grab a bite to eat i know a great place and if you leave if you do the same the same hour with that person but in two different places connection goes up well there's just something like that with creativity where we're working on a problem here we end up getting you know like slightly stuck or we come up with what we think is a solution but in our gut we're like it doesn't seem great let's take a break let's go for a walk so we walk her bike to a taco place at the taco place it's always that's where the idea comes once we've taken our mind off once we've changed the the environment and i was like dude notice how many how often that happens if we were just remote none of that would have happened because i would have gotten off the zoom with you then i would have gone to take break you would gone take a break i wouldn't be like hey let's just leave our phones on like it would would've have just been like a little bit weird to do that and we would not have had you know that those next ideas and if you're in a creative line of work those ideas are goal those ideas is what you're in it for right right like unless you're in a like factory type of work where it's all about productivity you know for us creativity is the pro is productivity it is the new productivity and so we need to set up a situation that lets us be more creative which being a person was was pretty massive for that yeah it's funny we're both craving the same stuff and i think that a lot of people are and i yeah and so like why went and looked at apartments this weekend and i we have our i think my lease starts may one and so i'm going all in on this this in real life stuff like i need to know or you're gonna like split i don't know yet i'm still working at logistics i went and looked at this apartment building do have you ever been to like i don't know if this is happening in san francisco so the new thing in new york is that there's these apartment buildings and it took me a long time to realize what they are but i i've nailed it they're cruise ships and so basically what they are is they're really cheap i mean they're super expensive but the build quality is like kinda crap like all like basic builder quality apartment units but then the actual lobby has a bowling alley oh like the amenities are amazing yeah yeah like a rock climbing gym and it's like all like in the basement and then it has like the best gym you've ever seen in the world and then it has like a play room a golf simulator it's basically built to be sort of like a mall where like it's built for like the thirty five year old three two kid all under eight type of like families and so i went and looked at like an apartment like that and i was like sitting in that apartment building and i'm like i don't know i could to bed here at night in these like tight walls like hearing like honking in the city and so i haven't decided if i can like put up with that and i'd rather commute but potentially i would move to the city i like here's what i did i sat down and i was like what's my dream day well my dream days i get up at seven i go and work out and then i get coffee with like austin reef who lives next to my in laws or i'd get coffee in my in laws and then i'd go to work at nine thirty and then my wife would like show up at the office to do some work and then we're both home at five to have dinner and that's like and then maybe at like seven or eight after the kids go to bed i would go for a walk outside i'm like that's the perfect day alright how can i create that and so i'm still working backwards on how how could how could i create that the problem is is i forgot about going to bed at night and how i need a huge ceiling because i get cost pho and that's gonna cost sixty thousand dollars a month because new york city is like the craziest place in the world when it comes to renting an apartment and so i'm still trying to figure out you know some of those logistical details on how earth like i could pull off this it was like super relatable with like walking and do whatever until you're like but i need sixteen foot ceilings to sleep no i just like yeah at your house like you're like a lot of apartment ceilings are eight feet tall and like i know you feel like claustrophobic dude the rent in new york city is outlandish so when we were younger jury remember like the idea when we were twenty five i think i spent like eight hundred dollars a month apartment a ten thousand dollar month apartment nowadays in new york city it's not nice it's like a shit two bedroom it's crazy how expensive manhattan is and so yeah that's wild i gotta like figure out all the logistics but that's my spiel i'm going all in and i'm gonna go all in on in real life i need my soul is aching akin how much were you working on hampton anyways hours a week forty hours a week like it was like what's gonna change your ceo now well i can't like come like before it was like well how can i convince this person that my idea is the right way or how do i respect the boundaries you know like it i was a very respectful boss i felt like and it was like but now it's like i don't don't really gotta be respectful i'm just gonna say like this is what i want to make i need you guys to help me make this type of energy versus before i think i was a little bit more hands off and i was thinking a lot now i'm actually operating yeah what oh no they just funny like i i feel like i was just reflecting like you know you i think andrew has a good gift to this i do this too which is like we tell these great stories you're like you know i was reading this article about palmer lucky and he said this beautiful quote and you have this quote you're like i decided i too need to commit and choose a path but it's like and it's a great way to frame a story like this it's like the truth i think i'm gonna speak for a second but i think the truth is in a lot of these situations this is just like it's irritating to be out of like to not have your hands on and not control it's like i just like to be in control do things by way but like wow that's a less fun story to say it's like you know what i just really feel like we all chase optional and it's we we we're better off to commit and really just is the truth it's like i think it's the truth but i don't think that's why you're the ceo now no usually usually discovery this palmer like quote no usually discovery for me and i bet it's for you and and for many of the people is you feel a certain way and you're like this freaking sucks and words on it and then someone puts words on it and you're like oh that's like normal to feel or this person said this i guess what i'm was saying is you weren't choosing multiple options you just weren't in control the quote that palmer look you should've have said is like if you're the founder put your fucking dna in the company and just go like be hands off be a micro manager but go in there do i was going easy i was in like the dad phase so like it was like like i wanted to be available at like noon now now i'm more so like look i can be there in the morning to and in the evening and i think that's i'm still being a good dad before it was like i had to have x amount of hours of facetime now i'm out of the honeymoon phase of being a dad and i'm like look i could like be with you for breakfast and be with you for dinner and i think i could still be a good father and so that was partial it partially it gotcha yeah i i was talking to somebody and recently and they were like you know i just wanna like i'm working i'm working hard on this they're like chasing some projects some deal and i was like why are you doing this you're so like you've done so many deals you're you're post economic you made so much money why it goes so hard at this and they were like i just really want my kids to see what the you know their dad working and i was like i don't i i don't even think he was lying i think he genuinely believes that but i'm like dude you're doing this deal because you like doing deals it's all you've you you've done deals for thirty years you're amazing at doing deals it's a rush to do a great deal it's fun to win it's fun to dunk the basketball and you're trying to dunk and you don't have to be like i just want my kids to see a hard work dad like dude did just sit on your laptop send an emails like this not like they see your their dad you know sweat it out in the store wood dude yeah i was like but people tell them a all kinds of stories and i just find it hilarious because of course i do the same thing but when you see in other people it's so much more easy to spot like oh you've told yourself a story that's cool like that make it's fine whatever whatever gets you to do the things you wanna do is fine would you want your children to work with you is that even in your once i would i would think that would be really fun or cool to do i worked with my dad for about a year and there's actually a lot of fun much more fun like my working with my dad was more fun than just like hanging out with my dad and not working you know what i mean like it was actually like a a better dynamic it was a cooler dynamic i learned more that way and i saw him differently and he acted differently in the work mode versus he did in home mode so it was kinda cool so i think it would be really fun but it's not something i'm like trying to gear up you know i i i think i've told you this before like my new sort of dad ideal is ben's dad so ben's dad andy he he he did a very simple thing that's gonna sound like it's gonna sound like nothing but i personally think it was quite profound which is the way i initially was trying to be a dad and how other people are dads is you have things that you're into i love basketball and i keep trying to buy basketball and like put him near my son and buy the hoop and i like take him to a class i like really trying to get him into basketball because like oh man i really just want him to like love the things that i love and then we could share that we could bond over that whereas his dad was like little he's like what was that type of blood that's like it's the universal donor and he's looked like oh negative or something like that he's so negative so he's like he's got one son who's into stand of comedy so he's like great i'm now into stand up comedy yesterday i knew nothing didn't care today everything i do is eat sleeping and bring sand comedy bought books watch videos goes to shows by himself starts practicing himself starts giving his son feedback on every single thing that he's doing in a helpful supportive way making connections whatever whatever he could do he's like i'll meet you where you're at and ben loves the phoenix suns guess what andy now watches every phoenix suns game is a hardcore fan is always talking about the suns because he's like i'll meet you where you're at if that's what you're into i will get so into it that we can bond over that and i just thought that was like a really selfless kind of amazing thing he did and i just hadn't seen a lot of dads do that i think my instinct and many dad's instinct is just to try to get them to like the shit we like and then they don't and they were like alright like i support you but like at an arm length and i just thought it was much cooler to go all than and what your kids are into so i hope i'll expose my kids to like business i'm like i'll be totally open them working with me but i really wanna do the andy thing which is if they're into whatever musicals then del me you know what i mean that's awesome that that almost makes the emotional here about benz what a what a great dude if he really is do you wanna in there or do you wanna keep going i have i one quick one this is actually kinda cool this guy josh on twitter so joshua o oh gun tweeted this out cool fine so she tweeted out about this company called shots c have you ever heard of shots to app no yeah didn't me talk about shots no so shots is an app for tracking your oz injections oh that is funny and it just crossed a million in arr and all it does is it basically it's a it's a shot tracker so you know it's i guess i i don't know maybe you can tell me like i guess it's somewhat cumbersome to keep track of maybe i don't know if it's when you did it or how much your dosages is a reminder it's time for your next shot by the way how about that little chap of i don't know maybe you could tell me like how do people use this there talk about you dog joking with those you have to increase the dosage a lot so let's say you start with like five ml after two weeks you have to go to seven and then you have to go to like ten and it's not like incremental so you so when you hear this idea were you like yeah that was a pain point or for you was it like nah i don't know i didn't take it enough to be a pain point but it's very clear it's just sort of like imagine taking vitamins and like you have to add a pill every two to three to four months and like it just it is easier to track if you wanna follow it by the book i'm more of a like eyeball i bought and see how i feel to type a guy look in the mirror you know like do we wanna a party today or not that's like you you know that that's kinda they call it vibe coating i was a vibe epic guy it was just how do i feel that they yeah so the at the woman who made this i think name's aj she she was a engineer at the athletic like a software engineer at the at the media company the athletic and i guess on the side she just built this like for her own pain point and then i think it took off in like the reddit communities and just off of reddit and then some talks about it it's gotten down there like a hundred thousand times got this paid subscription across a million in arr what niches and riches man like this is and niches this is like just such a simple just problem solution app right that that that somebody realized okay if if oz zen mozambique is the next big thing right if these gl ones are the next big thing i don't know how many people take them i think it's like forty million people or some like really big number of people who now all are on some schedule and realizing that you could build an app just for that population is a a smart idea have you seen like the oscars and the grammy and things like that like everyone looks great it it's losing weight quickly is is it is are they illegal in sports i don't think so now oh i mean it's kind of a kind of like a it definitely is a lose like muscle mass right so i don't think athletes would really care too much about this you cannot loop you i'm not a scientist but you obviously you can if you eat it up protein and you lift weights i think you can maintain it basically just makes you not eat so if you can say like yeah but i'm going to eat and i'm going to hit my protein and i'm going to lift weights even though i don't wanna eat today yeah you could you could keep protein it's just you don't want to eat you're full let me see let me see you a random question i was watching this video today about somebody was speculating that lebron lebron does like what people nancy tries saw the lance i'm armstrong thing about it so lance armstrong was talking about it chill sun and has talked about it chills like yeah we have the same drug guy i know i know what he's taken i'm not gonna say but i always take the chills is also like a professional troll so you don't know when he's being but also full as a drug cheat yeah but also did use you know performance drug when he competed and he was basically like he's on and like you know you would if you if you wanted to do what he's doing if you wanted to be doing tomahawk dunk at age forty in the nba like you playing thirty minutes a game and averaging twenty seven points or whatever like you would do this and and i i i actually just we'll think about this in like the world of business is there a pd at business and like how would you feel about people doing that have you ever taken adderall or rita i've never taken it but i know i have several friends i do it too too focused to be more productive i don't do any i don't do any drugs but ten years ago before i got sober i for some reason a doctor gave me a rita prescription i have no idea why i i don't remember how what what happened but i got it and i took it for about four days and on the fifth day i had like a mental breakdown it made me too speedy i was like i get maybe i'm like i'm going crazy this is horrible and i was like i've never taken this crap again but those four days i was on fire i was like laser focus and it i felt it on top of the world and so obviously a lot of people take this and i would not feel bad if my competitor took is that what you're asking i just i don't know like in sports it's definitely seen as i think for most people when they he would hear about an athlete doping or cheating it'd be literally like you're cheating and it's a tainted record right but i think i think those drugs should be legal in sports a little bit do think so so you would you think in in business you i guess there's two questions do you think a lot of people are taking this type of stuff i remember stan bank fried had the like the patch i think like like honestly it dude i think there was a joke on reddit there was a guy who was like i'm naming my daughter vi vance because i love those drugs so much yeah i think there's a yeah i think everyone at i think if you're under the age of thirty i would assume that you're taking it oh wow that's great that's you think it's that popular yeah i think that i am now a very wholesome straight edge person and i think you have always been that way so i think perhaps we don't just naive dude i didn't even like i nobody nobody offered me any i didn't i didn't get any it's not like i'm like i think that superior i just didn't need no i'm not i'm not saying that it's morally superior this way i just think that you and i have never well since i've known new i have never part and you have never part or at least been part of like the drug or alcohol seen really and i do think most people it's like getting weed you know like oh like i can't sleep but the doctor's like gotcha i understand do you wanna be like vaping like right yeah that's how i think it is the closest thing i have to that it's like calling my dog a service animal so i could like you know yeah take her into that place dude it i so when we were younger our parents would like my parents gave me rita because like every boy who couldn't sit still in fourth grade they were like oh you you you haven't an known in this son and we need to keep you from standing up from the chair and like you know you you you have to take this pill and i remember taking the pill in fourth grade and after like a few months i'm like i didn't have like the vocabulary to explain to my mother but i was like this is making me sad like something was going on and so she was like oh this is crazy what are we doing but i remember taking it it changes you and i do think that when i took it as an adult it felt like i was on ep and i was having to do the tour france like again it felt i'm like oh i understand how this is like and a pet did you see how cha wants to come up which i don't really respect a lot what he says but do you see how he said he wanted to have the pe free poker oh yeah yeah he saying like a no adderall poker tournament basically yeah yeah that's that's sort of intriguing that's it i must just be sleeping on this like i i didn't realize this was as i i a couple of friends who i know they were they told me like ali i'm gonna stop doing that i was like oh you've been doing that what is that why for what like you know i didn't even really occur me i guess this i as you guys are saying this i'm realizing that oh i'd probably just been foolish about that yeah it wouldn't surprise me okay so like what do you call the listeners of this pod the yu class like the white collar class or whatever whatever i would bet that thirty percent of the people between the ages of twenty two and thirty five who are in this white color or yep or henry class are on adhd medications that's my pretty thirty percent it's a lot right if you're on that adi in the comments let us know but we're gonna pull the youtube comments right now maddie or add well had friends that would buy in the silk road can you even buy it on online i guess you don't even need to buy it online anymore you just go to your doctor but there's probably like like an adderall toothpaste at this point and if not great idea yeah that's brush in a rush let's go ten out of ten out it's a you nailed that one alright that's it that's a pop i feel like got rude where i know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a days off on go travel never looking back but