He Turned $300/mo Into $3,750,000/mo From GARDENING

alright what's happening to everyone today's podcast is with kevin asp so kevin has his company called epic gardening epic gardening started as a blog where kevin would just blog about his hobby as a gardener he started it in two thousand sixteenth and in this podcast he's gonna tell us the revenue for every year that he's been doing it but this year they're gonna do something like forty five million dollars a year in revenue and kevin walks through how they got traffic how he's built the company how he bought other companies to make epic gardening a big business it's incredibly fascinating he's super transparent with all the numbers so he goes through deal by deal all the companies that they bought how much they paid for how they found the company how they found other companies that they didn't end up buying and why they didn't buy it it's a really fascinating story this guy really really cool i think in about five years this guy is gonna be a really really big deal he's already a pretty big deal but i think at five years he's gonna be like chip joanna you guys have to listen to those podcast he's a really fascinating guy let me know what you think alright check it out i feel like i could rule where i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a day's off on a road less travel never dude so it's finally nice to talk to you you i didn't know who you were and then on the podcast sean like told your story and i'm like oh i recognize this guy from everywhere and i didn't realize how big of a business that you'd built so congratulations that's insane right yeah yeah i know it's been a it's been a crazy ride it's been a crazy ride i just watched one of your youtube videos where one of your videos had just gotten i i think you said seventy million views and it's just like you knee on a like a little mailing like device so you can guard in on your knees more easily and you're like i've been getting noticed in the streets because of the silly knee video yeah that video might haunt me i i think it's the most viral thing i've ever made it's a short form video so i'd seen this little knee device it was like a instagram reel of a german trade show and it was just this little nailing device where you kinda popped down i think it's made for brick layers so i saw it i was like you know what i kinda wanna try it out just to see and so i i had my team grab one there was like one in san diego where i live and i made that piece of content in like maybe maybe ten minutes maximum and and then edited it up toss it out put it on and i think tiktok first and it just started ripping so i i was like okay i know this thing it has some legs so then i threw it on instagram and facebook and threw it on youtube i think it's until like a hundred and fifty million views across platform and the whole logic of doing it was let me put this product in front of our gardening audience and see if they like it so then we can either hit up the manufacture and carry it on our store or we can maybe make some modifications to it that make it a little better suited for gardening and then that it's basically just market validation right by by the time we went that viral we hit up the manufacturer which is a german company and they're like we would love to sell you some but our entire stock in america is gone so every distributor we already have has sold out so we can't we can't get it to you how much rev missed revenue was that i have no idea yeah what's your guess over or under ten million oh it's gotta i think it's under for sure because i think these things are like fifty bucks maybe i don't know how many we would've have sold but i don't think there was some crazy supply in the us but yeah it's kinda it was kind of a bummer so the only the only thing ever gotten out of it is just being meme to to death about it dude so you the reason you're sort of interesting to me is did you start with like an internet marketing background because i know that you're interested in search and seo and stuff was it like to be an agency and then i mean were you even into gardening and plants and all that stuff or did you or were you like i'm the plant daddy now because i've got this website and so like which came first what came first was yeah i guess i guess designing websites did come first because i came out of college with an accounting degree but i played online poker to pay for school and so that kinda like put me off the path of wanting to be an accountant right out of the gate and you were making money yeah i made like two hundred two hundred fifty thousand dollars probably playing poker in college so i i used that to pay for school and then i had some money to like sit on was it all online yeah was all online i hated playing in person because it's so slow because when you're playing online you're playing faster but you're also playing like more tables what makes a good online poker player because i would think i don't play poker really i've only played like ten or twenty times it's just like it seems like reading body language and things like that is part of the game but what makes a good online player just straight math straight math is a big part of it so like understanding probability theory and understanding the types of hands that someone could or couldn't have in a particular situation but you're you're kinda right like eventually when you play enough online poker it gets down to the point where you know the people's screen names you're playing with and you probably have played with these people like over days weeks or months depending on how often they play and you can even get down to the point where you know in this particular position like i'm sitting on the button they're sitting in this position and they they wait three seconds longer than they normally do and it's this person's screen name a lot of the times you can develop some sort of weird six cents and you know you're like i'm i'm like nearly sure that's a bluff and you'll call them and you made two hundred and fifty thousand dollars over four years doing that it's so something like that i didn't track it super was two hundred and two hundred and fifty thousand that's insane that is insane yeah yeah so threw me off the path of wanting to be an accountant for sure and then when i got out of school i play poker for like six more months or something and then quit but i had nothing to to do so i started playing video games and then i was designing websites to just pay some bills and then i got into the marketing thing because i like once you sell a website it's sold so you make your fifteen hundred bucks or two grand or whatever that hell i was charging at that time so then i got into seo stuff and i built the gardening blog at the same time because i was getting into gardening i doing it with my brother over a summer and i was like i need i need like a digital business card like need a little calling card so i built the gardening blog as a way to show the website design clients like hey look look what i can build what year was at that would have been twenty thirteen dude i think in the same year i did the same thing as you were you reading like smart passive income yeah yeah mh okay so pat for those young listeners i think you and i were on the young side probably at the time of his blog i i think you and are the same age i'm thirty four thirty six and smart passive income was like one this guy pat flynn who's still quite popular he's one of the early bloggers of like making money on the internet and he had a what did he do he did like a he wrote like a blog in an ebook on how to like get your building like green or lead certified or something like that and he was making money doing it and he would display all of his income and revenue online which at the time was like insane and then he did like a food truck a food truck like a book on how to create a food truck or something like that and like was like i'm gonna rank high on search and i'm gonna blog throughout the way so you guys can see how i did do it i read that and i carried a po poison ivy like how to treat poison ivy website at the same time and it was making like a thousand dollars a day and i was like copying everything he was doing and i have a feeling that you were reading that same at the same time i have an even more cringe story around that time so i was reading pat like crazy yeah it's call me cringe i mean we all that that first site that you make it's always kinda weird like come out voice yes stupid good i have one worst than that for sure so pat to me was like a god back in the day because he's a half filipino half white guy living in san diego building businesses are you half filipino i'm a half filipino halfway and we've become a good friends now which is awesome but when i read it i was like okay cool i see the blueprint pat's got this like green certification thing and so my choice was to i created a a website called cocoa butter cream dot org and so i go coke cream dot gore i start reviewing every cocoa butter cream that's on amazon and i was using an alias and like come on like i was like early twenties i doing some dumb stuff and i i was susie michael's a mother of two who was like reviewing how all these different cocoa butters worked on me and and then i you know you hook to amazon affiliates and i remember it took me like a month i made like two bucks on that site and i was like oh my god i made money in a way and it's not like someone just paying me you know and it kinda of blew my mind like the the whole saying like everyone remembers your first dollar in the internet i wish it wasn't cocoa butter cream but and then and and and that's when you got into like internet marketing but then she'd do like a kendrick lamar website too yeah that was that was man that was probably like a couple years later so the story on that one is my cousin was losing my cousin at the time here's like a bio mechanic engineer and i'm over here doing all this weird stuff on the internet like building sites and stuff and he's kinda getting intrigued by it and a friend hits me up and he was like hey i have all these blogs that i need to sell i just need some money i have kendrick lamar rita or school boy q like all these sort of up and coming artists and this would have been like twenty fourteen i think here's you wanna buy one and i go i'm kinda doing my own thing but maybe i'll have my cousin buy it and we'll do it together so my cousin johnny actually puts up the money for it and i think i had like ten percent equity in this kendrick lamar website and we start like scouring the internet we actually become like the biggest source of kendrick lamar news on the internet before he drops his first album good kid mad city and so no one really knows kendrick like only super fans know him and there was a point where like i think kendrick manager even called up my cousin was like like we really appreciate what you're doing for kendrick like you put it his name out there dah and the way we monetized that is we were just selling shirts just like print on demand shirts i think we probably made like thirty year forty grand doing that and then after the album dropped and he blew up all of a sudden he like trademarked his name and we had to shut the site down and stuff but that was another like weirdo internet thing that we did what was the main thing though was it the gardening like gardening websites the whole time no the the gardening thing didn't really start until for real like it was a hobby that i love doing and i've i've done it every every year in my life since twenty thirteen but it was just like a a hobby blog until twenty sixteen when i went full time it and hobby blog and that you were actually like into gardening and you're like i'm just gonna i'm just gonna create content around but did you see any numbers where you're like this could be a big company or was it straight join no no i mean it was a mix right like i was gardening for fun and then i just document whatever whatever i was doing and like make a youtube video or make a blog post and i would try to monetize it like i'd make some ad revenue where i'd make some affiliate revenue but i never thought it could be huge like i remember talking to friends that we're all kinda doing the same thing at the time and i was and if this thing could just make two grand a month or if it could make five grand a month like that'd be amazing then i wouldn't have to go get a job because i think my mind didn't understand the scale that any any business could really become at that point in time so yeah it took it took a while for it me to realize the potential of it and then you you kind of like had this it's a it's a it's not like a cliche to most people but for the media world it's like a cliche at this point but at the time when you're doing it it was like content and commerce was actually like a pretty innovative idea which is i'm gonna build this huge blog and instead of just making money on advertising i'm going to sell my own products which is like it sounds silly that that i'm calling that innovative but like when you were getting going that was a thing i mean i had a and i like i don't think that you can like sell your own products i'd rather just stick to like what i know which is content and ads and yeah i was like totally against selling stuff but you made the right decision for sure it's a significantly better business because so it's a way better business and yeah the the brief story that is twenty sixteen i i go full time on epic gardening i was at scribe media or book in a box it was called before that was like second employee there so i quit that go full time on epic it was just a blog in youtube channel did you have any revenue when you quit yeah i was making four hundred fifty dollars a month i have this spreadsheet of like what it was making at the time so at that time i actually thought i was going to farm like lit legit farm in people's front yards and like aggregate all their square footage and like sell that produce to restaurants and stuff like that right i mean that sounds like really hard yeah it's it's a really hard way to make a small issue amount of money which there's people that do it and actually respect it a lot but it's cool it's cool yeah it's just not scale so so i go okay how would i just make this blog make a couple grand a month because was making four fifty so if i could make four fifty i could probably make two if i could make two i can make five and so i started growing it and i think that year the blog made seventeen grand total about six months of the year and then the next year it was seventy two thousand revenue and this is all media because i haven't done any product yet right twenty eighteen it was two hundred and twenty five and then twenty nineteen is where i had that realization that you mentioned where i was like wait why am i just making money from ads and like brand sponsorships like what do the brands want for me you when they do a brand deal they wanna access to your audience well i have complete access to my own audience so why don't i just be the brand selling to my own my own audience and so what i did is i realized like well every piece of content i put out is basically a search for validating demand for whatever's is in that content and so in all these photos i'm putting now because i'm i'm at this point i'm gardening in hill crest san diego in like a very small front yard in in a pretty urban part of downtown san diego and so i'm like filming my content there i have these little raised beds in the front yard which is just a way to grow plants and they're made out of metal and every time i took a photo of these everyone's like what are those what what are those things in the photo like where'd you get those so i was like i actually don't know like a brand just sent these to me and i put them in the front yard and so i started emailing this company they're from australia i email them like maybe once or twice a quarter for like a year saying like hey can i get these can i just like somehow get these to america and sell them and they're like no we were we have someone we're working with like we don't need to do that and then the beginning of twenty nineteen they emailed back and said like hey are you are you still interested in in carrying our products we like a distributor just isn't working with us anymore i'm like yeah sure let's do it and i think i probably had like seventy eighty grand in the business bank account at that point in time alright so it's like it's like promising you're not rolling in it yet but it's media so it's mostly profit yeah it's mostly profit and it's a small business with with nearly zero employees so to me i'm like i'm making like a like a mid level doctor's salary out of this business now you know so i'm i'm chilling i'm i'm gardening i'm liking my life so i hit these guys up and they're like yeah sure like here's how it works and i'm like holy shit i don't know how buying product works because i'm i'm used to media and so much like like the sort of cringe early days the way i tried to do it was sort of sort of new like i was like okay how do i buy the product they're like well you have to pay us you know here's all these different like shipping terms so i bought a twenty foot container of these raised beds for i think thirty five thousand dollars which was like half the money that i had and i go okay well what what what happens when they i get to america like what am i supposed to do like well you gotta receive it at the port and then you that container has to like go somewhere and then you have to unpack it and then you have to ship it and i'm like okay cool like thanks for that information so what i tried to do is i tried to rent a storage facility out of a costco and like just one of the ones that you like go to if you're gonna move for a year you know and you put all the furniture there so i tried to do that and i was like trying to figure out how to get it for the port to the storage facility and then i was trying to look up like well how do you get internet in the storage facility so you can so i can print the labels oh and you were gonna literally mail these things out yourself because i didn't know anything about commerce so i didn't know you could like send it to a three p or you could send your warehouse how many like units of stuff did you have i think it was five hundred and fifty beds at that okay so like that's a that's a ton but it's like alright i'm just gonna go to the post office four times a week and does i'll figure it out i mean that's a lot of work but i guess kind of reasonable i i thought it was reasonable and the reason why it was trying to do it like that is because when i when i ordered it and they packed the container in australia i was like okay cool guys like to my audience i was like hey you guys asked where these things were from i figured it out i put up a really crappy shopify store and i was like here they are and then i sold them out in like four or five days oh no well they were still getting to america so i knew i i knew it was working right and so then what i did is i used that money to buy another container and then that was on the way and then that sold out and then i was like oh my god like i think there's something really going on here so what was your revenue in nineteen the year you started selling stuff so nineteen was like five fifty and half of it was the product so in the year one like immediately half was was product so i was like oh my god i think what i've been building this whole time is the top of a business and not the bottom of it like i thought media was the whole thing was like media is right here and it monetize this but the bottom is actually where where the was the weird innovative idea i remember so like my friend nathan barry has this awesome blog post called like billion dollar blogs and it's like basically the story of a handful of people who started out blogging and then built companies around the blogs and the most famous examples are probably gloss or i think that's what it's called gloss it's the the women's makeup brand that started as emily weiss i think her name is she had like a fashion blog and then she was like oh this selling stuff is way better than selling ads and it became a a billion dollar company and he has a few more examples of that and that that's when i first read about that idea but i still thought this is way too intimidating in like too challenging and particularly for me at the time i ran a business website and i was like i can't what am gonna possibly sell yeah like what product yeah so like it didn't really make sense for me but even still i was like this is too intimidating but you were living it and doing it which is pretty cool yeah i mean that frankly like it was quite intimidating to me but i just was too either dumb or smart to like realize that and just went ahead and did it but anyways like the to wrap that up like i ended up talking to a friend of mine who was in commerce and he's was like what the hell are you doing to dude just get like a three p and get a freight forward and send the container to there hook the shopify to their area and then they'll ship it all out for you and that's what i ended up doing and so that that was kind of the genesis of selling products at epi gardening and didn't you grow that to like seven million in revenue with like four people yeah so yeah i mean i think twenty twenty would have been two point eight in revenue so almost a six year on year and then twenty twenty one was seven point three seven point four or so and most of it was product at that point in time and that would have been on a team of me my garden assistant my actual assistant a video editor and and a writer and that was it that's all we had on seven point three in revenue what could your profit be oh man it was probably like fifty percent or something like that so you're rolling in it yeah yeah well because because the thing about it is you if you run it like that and that was with zero dollars or paid spent right and so i have no acquisition cost my acquisition cost is equal to my media because that's the only way i was getting the word out but my media is not a cost it's a it's a profit driver and so it's that term negative c like i had negative c on the business why raise money i know you you raised i think seventeen million dollars why because if you the cool thing about bootstrapping a companies is you could do whatever the hell you want yeah and there's like freedom in that and that's frankly my favorite part of our business is like the freedom of like you're creating your own empire you could do whatever hell you want if you wanna grow it you can if you don't wanna grow it you don't have to you get all the money you don't have to answer to anyone i assume at this point you own you still own one hundred percent of the company at least if i'm you i'm not giving equity to my employees because it's like i've been doing this by myself for a long time i'll i'll rather just pay you a high salary why even take seventeen million dollars yeah i wrestled with it for a long time like maybe that deal took like six months to close i would say and at least for the trainer group it's not some massive deal for them like that's not that's not a ton of money for them it's it was huge amount for me the the logic ended up being i was like do i know what i'm gonna do in the next couple years like do i under stand the complexity of the business i i had built because it's a that's a really lean team to be at seven point three with like commerce business shipping product yeah there's like a bunch of redundancy issues like at that around like anything north five million and it's like alright we've got something here we've got a seed of something working here it potentially could be huge like i should have some i should actually like shift to being a proper ceo and like with be being a proper ceo is like hiring extra employees even if like you know like at that point it's like with with the size that you or everyone was working a hundred and ten percent and at that point it's you kinda like almost purposely become a slightly more inefficient because you're like if i get seventy percent of effort from ten people that's better than a hundred and ten percent effort of five people and i'll have some redundancy so people can like chill a little bit or someone gets sick or quits like there's actually like some proper ceo work you have to do at that stage i would think oh yeah oh yeah totally i mean and the operational side like the hiring etcetera side like i had no clue because i was on a team with me and and four contractors like i didn't i didn't really have ira experience and then on the commerce side it's not like we got to seven point three selling like an online course which would be a lot simpler to fulfill like there's there's inventory planning there's like sales tax nexus that you hit in all these different states that you have to file for so there was a lot of complexity i was like staring down the barrel of that i i knew that i didn't know about i was at least smart enough to know i didn't know what was coming and then frankly like that was just a crazy period in the market like two thousand twenty one was probably still the last best time to do any kind of raising and and then at the same time i was like look i'm already ahead in in my space like no one no creator in gardening is is doing what i'm doing and so why don't i just make sure that i stay ahead and partner with people who actually understand how these media to commerce businesses your built and that's what ended up making me do the deal were you able to take any money off the table or did the seventeen go straight to the balance sheet i was able to take some off which was great yeah that's a life changing right yeah it was it was life changing and then like i had bought a warehouse to to start fulfilling because eventually like i moved off the three p i was like you know what i'm paying these guys like thirty forty k a month in fulfillment fees why don't i just like start a separate company by a warehouse and then become my own tenant and the like build equity in the real estate side and so when we raised i i actually didn't that that warehouse didn't go with it so i i had the warehouse too so like the way the whole personal financial math worked out i was like the way i live i'm good now and i can just like fully focus on trying to win this space so that was another part of it gail family yeah i a i have a girlfriend yeah and a lot of my family lives in san diego what's it feel like to be i don't know if you're single at the time or not but what's it feel like to be a young guy and you're like i'm good i'm good for potentially forever yeah i mean it's kind of under wyoming i guess i don't know was it like of you i don't know for for me had i'd already made quite a bit of money running up through two thousand twenty one just sort of solo and so it was a huge change but it wasn't it wasn't like you know one million to two hundred million dollar net worth or something like that like the the way i live i just don't i just don't need it i guess and so all it did was eliminate worry about like i don't know what if something medical goes wrong or i couldn't even figure out if i wanted to buy anything for a while i didn't didn't buy anything like fancy to celebrate or whatever not having money is the the period of my life where i didn't have as money was more stressful than the periods of my life where i did have breathing room that that i completely agree with that i i always think like it mitigate all your downsides but it doesn't at least i haven't found that it makes you some massively happier person yeah yeah yeah but you remember that that study where it was like seventy thousand dollars a year right that's bullshit that is absolutely i agree is bullshit that why why do you agree that bullshit okay so first of all i think inflation adjusted isn't it like a hundred sixty k now or something like that yeah even i think that numbers might be bullshit till to yeah a hundred and sixty grand in in and one of the top five cities shockingly doesn't go very far it doesn't go far yeah i think i think that's bullshit because the things let's say you're making like two hundred a year you can get like you can have someone come and clean the house or you can have like meal support or these sorts of things that that help you free your time up from things you like genuinely don't like to do there's things like i love to do that of course i could pay for like i obviously i grow my own food and i like cook meals and and bake my own bread and stuff like that i i don't have to do that but like i i don't clean my house anymore right and so like things like that i think give me i don't know if like positive joy would be the way i would phrase it though it's just like i don't have to do an annoying thing is the way i think about it yeah it's like you remember that book like the five languages of of love and it's like oh your girlfriend's like an active service woman so like if i do something nice for she'll feel loved yeah there's like the five languages of love but for money where it's like for me it's not nice things but for some people it could be they love cars for me it's the same thing where i've got a cleaner who comes often and i just like genuinely feel happier not having to do my laundry and clean yeah and so in those like small things which frankly aren't expensive it it it it definitely makes you happier like the those little small things i wanted it all from ram same skyler that all from ram remit is is just he has like a surgical team on every single part of his life that he hates to do and i was like you know what that's actually pretty smart and so and he spends big on stuff i with ram me on saturday he he like always asked these like crazy questions where sometimes i'm i'm just wanting to chill and have fun and he's like saying let me ask you a question what what's what's your rich life and i'm like i don't know man like let's just drink our coffee he's like no tell me a rich life and i'm like okay it's not stuff it's services he goes what would happen if you ten your spending on your services and i was like a coffee with it and we had the same conversation ax accent he goes he goes he goes how how how big would your staff be if it could be as big as you wanted it to be for your house and i was like i don't know like i i think guy have like a cleaner and maybe like a cook every so often or something he's like oh man like what kind of cook you know he gets into the details he gets into the details he loves it he loves it and when he asked those questions frankly it does make me start thinking a like maybe i should do this and b like am i thinking too small like if i love something why don't i you like get ten x more of of that thing and so it is like cool to think about he he does do a good job with that of like make of like pressuring me to think beyond like how i'm thinking and and ram remit stuff has actually been life changing for me say how big a business now can you say yeah yeah we're we're about ninety ish people and we're hoping to hit somewhere we're like forty forty five million dollars this shared revenue that's insane right did you ever think that and are you doing it prop profit still not even though you raised money yeah we're we're profitable we're profitable well the first year after i think we were not because you know we hired quite a bit ahead of of growth because we were like way under hired with me and four contractors and then this year this year we are you think how big how big you think it's gonna get in like five years i mean i think it's like a fore on conclusion to get above a hundred million because we have we've made a couple acquisitions we made two small ones in one large one and even just sort of growing those i think has a shot at at getting us past a hundred i don't know how much bigger than that why acquire something instead of building it on your own it's really just speed and if you have the competency internally to do it did you i mean you you you studied the accounting but did you know anything about acquiring a company or did turn and kinda hold your hand so the big the big acquisition where we bought the seed company that was churn and led a lot of the diligence on that because it's like way too complex a thirty year old business like i there's no way i could do the the diligence on that but the two small acquisitions i led those and they sort of just helped with the legal of of getting it all done so the very first one was a seed tray so like when you when you're gardening you usually start seeds in like a little tray and a lot of these trays are made out of pretty flimsy plastic and they're just like throw away things and so a friend of mine who is in the space on the media side of gardening so like an educator he he was developing these trays and he hit me up and he's like hey can i come down to the house and just show you this new tray that i made to start seeds in and this was early two thousand twenty one i was like sure come on down he comes down he shows me this tray and it's like this very super sturdy durable tray to start seeds in which solves like some of the problems of them being flimsy then he had like cut all these little slit in it there's like a big hole in the bottom which if you're a ga you know it's like that makes it easier like pop the seed out and put it out in the garden so i hold the tray and the second i hold it because i'd be gardening for like eight years now i'm like holy shit this is like the best seat starting tray i've ever seen in my life like for sure and he's like you can stand on it if you want to so i like i'm like two hundred twenty pounds so i stand on it with one foot it doesn't budge and i'm like okay like that thing's durable and so i go what do you wanna do like i think this is a cool product do you wanna like i can put it on my shopify store and like see if the audience wants it and he's like yeah what do you think like we'll just split the profits fifty fifty you have you have the audience i have the product and and let's go so i started teasing it in like instagram or youtube videos and it's an injection molded pro product so you we can only make so many in a day you have to like press the mold and like accumulate inventory so we we built up like maybe a week or two of inventory or what we thought was and then i just put an of real and i was like hey this is the coolest tray i've ever seen and there's a link in my bio to go grab it and we sold it out like shopify has this live analytics you can look at awesome it's like like it's like just the biggest dopamine rush when you start seeing that in so i remember i i was screen recording at just to see just to kinda of flex and and record the live screen and we sold out like couple inventory like twenty five sec how much revenue is that i was like twenty five or thirty grand i think so now that's a that's an entire line of products we own it's on our shop it's called our our epic tray line so if you go to our shop and you go to seed starting supplies you'll you'll see all the trays there so over the next like over the next like three four weeks we just like builds up inventory dropped it sold it out built up inventory dropped it sold it out and we were just splitting the profits and then i go to him and i was like hey look not only is this working like really well better than i thought but there's definitely more trades that we could make there's like different form factors and different ideas and like little domes you could put on top to keep humidity in or whatever and i was like but i can't make them because that's what you do and i'm like ninety five percent of your sales so what if you just joined epic you know way to raise some money i was like you could be our product lead we'll we'll i can't really like buy the business based on revenue because that that is we are your revenue right and so how do how how do we structure a deal and so the deal we came up with without getting like crazy specifics is we basically paid them for all of the assets like the the the molds themselves and and the research and development time and a premium on that gave him some equity and hired him as our product lead and then we've built that line out to like i think like twelve or fifteen skus going d and wholesale now and it's like i think i think we're like up seven x probably on the acquisition price as far as like revenue after the fact so and and that wasn't like a big acquisition it was sub five hundred thousand so to me i'm like that's why you would that's why you would buy because i yeah and that's a great that's a great deal for everyone involved yeah exactly was a total win win what are the other two so the second biggest one we did was actually a media acquisition so that was a blog so a friend of mine from from like the old seo days had built a gardening blog and we were hiring for a director of editorial like just someone to run our blog and our blog was doing well like maybe like eight ten million sessions a year and that was monetizing off of display ads but then hopefully like people will go through like buy some stuff on our store too all from search or mostly from search he has was like mostly search i said like eighty percent search and so this guy emails me and he's like hey look i saw that that head of editorial position i'm working in seo right now but i've also been building a gardening blog on the side it was called all about gardening dot com which is now redirecting to epic gardening and he's like i'd like the job like i'd like to put my hat in the ring for the job but i kinda have like a competing blog so to me i go look you've built that blog really fast way faster than our we're currently building ours but you kinda can't work for us and run that blog so what if we bought your blog and hired you to run our blog and he goes okay and so what we did is we bought the blog and we migrated his blog into our blog which was like call them both like ten million sessions a year something like that so you'd think like ten plus ten is twenty but our blog from an seo perspective was like super strong so by migrating his into hours our blog went to like we probably got like a twenty thirty percent premium on the traffic so like ten plus ten equals twenty five right so then you're monetizing better off of the display ads there but then we also just made more from the ads themselves and so effectively the acquisition financed itself by the increased revenue of like month one so that was another like sort of weird can you say was that more or less than five hundred it was yeah was it was in between five hundred and a million and the way we structured that one is we paid some up upfront some over a period of time job plus equity so is was post this was post churning this is post churn yeah so the way that one has ended up working out is we have a awesome leader running our blog at a higher level than ours was before our traffic has over doubled and we're monetizing at over doubled the rate on the traffic so you know like like youtube rpm right it's the same with blogs like our our blog rpm doubled after doing the acquisition and so basically we just created like a cash flow that that finances the thing that we bought that created the cash flow did you read a book about this i mean how did you learn about acquisitions like this i mean that's a pretty good one i just thought i don't know i just thought about it i was like if i do that i feel like all these things will happen and then they did i don't know like that my my like you're like like i don't make up the rules i just sync them up and write them down yeah like i i don't know i just i i i i well you know what i i just people say like there needs to be one reit one like core reason to do something like a acquisition or a business move or whatever i i agree with that but to me i the way i mentally under wrote both of those things is i was like well core reason is pretty obvious like i don't have a product now i do or like i don't have the traffic and a leader and now i do but then i just go how many other ways could this benefit us and how many other ways could it hurt us and if the ways they could benefit us outweigh the ways it can hurt us i go like i feel like it'll just feel just work then and this probably holds true for like acquisitions that are smaller where it's maybe a less efficient market or something like that i don't know how it would work if if you have some sort of big big deal what was the third one because you're two for two you're two for two now that sounds pretty good those those ones were those ones have worked out yeah yeah so the the third one was almost like kind of a condition of doing the turn deal in the first place because they're like look like this is this is not a big amount of money for us but we wanna do some follow on and see if we can like purchase a really awesome company in the space and help power up epi gardening i was like okay cool that sounds good which is i think what they did with like meat eater yeah yeah a few others where they bought like they buy the or they invest in the the media company and then immediately they're like let's go acquire a company to sell to the audience yeah yeah exactly and so we were looking ma'am man we looked at so many different companies like maybe a hundred and fifty a hundred and sixty different companies in the space i was like out at a fruit tree farm in missouri at one point in time when you say look at a hundred and fifty does that mean just like put like ideas on paper or does that mean actually contacting a hundred and fifty people oh it's it means contacting more than a hundred fifty it it means like talking or like looking at a deck or inspecting in some way somewhere around a hundred fifty something like that i mean that's a shit ton of work yeah this is why this is why having them has has been helpful or having an investor on your side has been helpful because like i'm out here running the business and i might mention a company and they'll they'll diligence and say like yeah this makes sense this doesn't make sense and then they'll they'll cold email them or cold call them and be like hey who we are i know this is out of the blue but this ever entertain you and then if they say yes and like look why don't you like put together some high level numbers and then send something over and then we could talk about it with our team and then you get some type of like docks or pop you get something and you're like yeah or nay like if could go to the next step let's actually have a real discussion about this that is that how the diligence looks like pretty much yeah yeah pretty much like i i remember we we were looking at like the top six hundred gardening apps at one point in time and so we i got like a sheet from one of the people on the investment team and they were like yeah here were like the seven we think make any sense whatsoever and here's like the five hundred and ninety three that don't make any sense at all so these guys are doing a lot of the work then they're helping you oh yeah they're pulling they're pulling their weight oh i think so yeah absolutely so so anyway so the seed company this is like the big the big acquisition this was a company that without me knowing it it was the first pack of seeds i had ever grown when i first started gardening so i went into some random nursery with my brother and just picked up like a beautiful packet of seeds to cucumber seeds and long behold turns out to be the seed company we end up buying in the store i'm about to share so we go out to colorado it's this company called botanical interests and they they're really well known for having high germ termination rates so the seed sprout really well when you buy them but also the packet is just beautifully designed what are they growing you know i'm a new i'm a total new when it comes to the stuff what are they what's the out output there's six i think we we stock about six hundred fifty varieties of vegetables flowers and herbs so pretty much any anything under the sun anything that you would like reasonably wanna grow we we have it and it's a it's a husband and wife they've been running it for like twenty eight years they were married i think they had divorced like a few years prior to that and they were sort of ready to pan the business off to whoever wants to run it next but it you know it's so it's like one of those like quote boring businesses that people talk about all the time who's who's actually gonna be able to buy and the seed business is actually fairly complex there's a lot that goes into it that you have to understand and so we go out there i meet i meet the guy the husband and he's like hey can i grab a selfie like actually i have a friend who's like a big fan of your youtube it'd be amazing if if i could show over her that we met and immediately i'm like okay i like maybe i've got a little edge in this in this process like maybe i'm gonna be able to get this company you can go either way it could be like you have an you you have an edge or shit they know that they're that we have money behind us or something like that could be that too yeah it could be that too but we go through the whole like the diligence happens we go in a tour the place where we're talking through pricing and all this sort of stuff and so i told my investors i was like they gave me all this swag they gave me like a hat so i go i'm just gonna wear this hat in every piece of content we make until we either win or don't win this deal because i know the guy watches it right and i know like probably his team watches it too so for the next like this was maybe may for the next six months which is a great time like may that's spring through summer i'm cranking youtube videos out i'm cranking instagram reels out short form whatever hat hats on twenty four seven every single piece of content and we go through the bidding process we win the deal we were not the highest bid by like quite a bit i would say a material amount for the sellers to like not have in their pocket if they went with us and we go out to celebrate and i go hey you know i really appreciate you guys like it's it's truly an honor to be able to carry on the legacy of this company like this is the first seat packet i ever grew and i'm i'm just being very gracious because i i did feel that way and he goes you don't know how much we're that hat helped and i go i knew it got yeah got them not in like a malicious way just sure sure sure i'm using the angle that i have which is why number one one everyone was one one did you what were some of the red flags and and i guess green flags or whatever it is the for that deal along with a few other deals when you're looking through the financials and the business so that the seed companies red flags are that it basically that it is a seed company like that's just a hard it's a difficult business like there's a ton because there's so many different skus tons of different skus there's you have to do like a non gmo certification you have to do germ determination testing you have to do pest or herbicide testing you're you're physically purchasing or contracting a grower two two grow seats that you then receive test rep pack etcetera and so there's just like a lot of it's not like you're you're selling like a rug or something like that and you can just buy rug from china and then sell the rug to other people in america so that was complex but the part that i think was really green about it is it was far and away one of the best brands in the space like i i loved it for ten years and on top of that they were mostly a wholesale business and the online business they they sort hadn't done a whole lot with and i was like okay well we're we're definitely an online first company media and product so why don't we just plug plug those two together and i think the first year after we we did the deal the online part of the business for the seed company is up like seventy eight sixty or seventy percent year over year without really doing much like all we did was move it to shopify and tell people we own the company now and that's pretty much it what what what payback cycle are were you looking for and what type of multiple do businesses like this sell for man i i don't remember off offhand the multiple but i wanna say it was probably six to eight x somewhere like income yeah i think so and how long till you could pay back the acquisition that's a good question i don't know maybe hopefully like hopefully like so i mean i i think that's pretty fast yeah it's like five i would say like five hopefully yeah i mean or i mean if you only if they only sell five to seven times i would think that you'd you'd actually grow it or get that money back significantly fast or i would think because of kind of like the audience that you have the audience and then like just the opportunity because we're were we're we're carried in i was say forty five hundred stores around the country and so to me i'm like well it's just seats that are carried like just our seed brands there because they were a seed company but we're making these trays that i told you about we're making these other new products we now we have a distribution network so why don't we tell all those retailers hey look we're like making better product that your customers will want just stock our product in your store and so that was that was another like big lever i think we're still testing it out and try to prove if if that's right or not but we're like yeah why why wouldn't we just offer a ton of our products now to wholesale in a network that we couldn't have built have you ever been to a chip and joanne anne like like so like they're like it's show for them in twenty twenty like you are on their show i filmed a show for magnolia back then they have it's basically like disneyland for like four year old white chicks it's like you could like buy everything in the world that you're like for your home or living room i i went to it once and like my mother long and her sisters like wanted to go and like take pictures of like they just wanted to like anything with chip and joanne name on it they just wanted to see it and i was like doing math around like how i mean it's like a it's it's like a it's like a campus and so they've got like food and many many different stores and i was doing math and i'm like these guys are gonna be billionaires there like this is gonna yeah this is gonna be the greatest thing ever and that's gonna happen to you because you've got the same stick where you're you're in a good niche of of i imagine it's mostly women and they probably have they probably spend a lot or just for the hobby they spend a lot but b you got the charisma you got the look like like it's gonna happen do do you get crazy like stalker messages or like fans who are obsessed with you it it's definitely happened yeah definitely people make fun of me on this podcast all the time they everyone thinks gay because they're like i comment on like a man all the time yeah but you know i i'm not embarrassed to say you're charismatic good look a dude i i imagine you've got you've got a lot of fans back as you dude the we so everyone thinks i'm gay too actually just just because i'm a guy i think it's because i'm a a younger guy in gardening and gardening is seen as a more feminine hobby people just think i'm a gay guy which it's just it's just an interesting phenomenon to experience on the internet all the time but yeah no i mean i would say it it happens for sure it i i've done the whole like delete all your info from the internet process but it's gonna it's never good enough it's never good enough especially when you film at your home right like my set is my outdoors and so i can't like not show the street etcetera because it's it's just in the shot there's nothing i can really do about it but i've had times for like i took a picture of my house and i didn't think you could see it and then like the next couple days i'll get gifts sent to my home and like people will find it on like street view and i'm like shit and like i'm not a famous person i'm a mildly popular person and a small subset of the internet and so i can't imagine if you're like real famous or if i'm like you and my videos get millions of millions of millions of views yeah yeah i mean look it's it's it hasn't been as bad as i think like legitimate celebrity type people but i've definitely had like i had an experience earlier this year where this woman we're on in the backyard because it's where we film most of the time but there's a garden in the front yard too and i have security cameras on now that record like locally to my house so i can pull up footage of whatever i want and this woman like comes up the front door knocks on it says you and then like looks in the house and then goes out into the front gate walks opens it like kinda messes around with some plants tries to walk around the backyard and my assistant was in the backyard she's like coming around the the back to the front so they kinda like butted it heads and my assistant just freaked out she's was like who is this woman and this woman saw nothing wrong with what she was doing she was oh yeah just wanted to see if you guys were filming like wanted to come say hi and we're like we don't know who you are and she like there's nothing we could to her that would have made her understand her behavior was like completely out of the norm and so every so often it's like the law of large numbers man like if you have an audience of many millions all you need is point o one percent and that's still like fourteen people you know that'll come mess mess with you you were telling ari before about something that i wanted to ask you about and this is something that i've been crazy interested in kind the business i don't really know much about other than listening to like two or three podcasts and reading couple articles but the like licensing of fruits or vegetables or different type of seeds so like i was reading about the history of honey crisp apples and i believe it was started in either i think it was minnesota like university of minnesota what they did was i think they like took two plants and they brought them however that people even do don't even know how you do that but it took like many decades because i guess it takes a year to get a a new play or i guess it takes like ten years to get an apple tree in the first place or five years or something like that and then you screw up a bunch and then so it ultimately will take many years sometimes decades to get like a good apple and then they come up with a really cute name like honey chris or like i think i had one the other day that was called like a cotton a cotton candy apple like he like brand it with some like cute name and then you license it out to other other farmers and you build this massive business that has this moat that will take thirty years to disrupt is that how or is am i do i have that right with pretty much right that's pretty much right so we're gonna go into like garden nerd territory for a sec just so i can explain how it works so when you're making a new tree it's it's really difficult like you mentioned like actually when you're making new varieties of most plants it's it it's super painful to get the variety that you actually want like i met a guy at a far once he'd been working on a potato for like twenty years and what this is a goal outcome for that potato so the goal outcome potatoes are are grown from what are called seed potatoes which is basically just just a potato that you throw on the ground you don't plant like a little seat you could just throw a potato on the ground so this guy was trying to make a potato that you could grow from an actual potato seat because when a potato is in the ground it throws like leaves up and it actually makes a potato flower which produces a potato berry and that berry has seeds in it and if you plant those seeds the problem is that you don't get the potato that you planted you get so his outcome was like a more efficient way for farmer it wasn't necessarily a certain taste yeah it was wasn't it i mean it definitely was a taste but you're right like the idea was instead of buying a ton of potatoes and planting them by hand you could just plant a bunch of seeds that took to that took him twenty years right did he get his out did did it did he do it he got it yeah it's called the clan potato we actually sell it on our our stores and awesome potato did he get wealthy from it i hope so i didn't ask but i hope so i think he did it under a seed company so probably they got wealthy i'm not sure but either anyways interesting guy so with fruit trees though it's kind of the same thing where like you have to you have to keep developing tons and tons of trees and then figure out let's say okay this is the apple out of the hundreds that i grew out that i actually like it's that's my next honey chris right and what you then do is you you have to graph you have to take a piece of that tree and put it on what's called the roots stock of of an apple so like the roots and below because you can't use the seed of that because it'll be a different apple and it will take a long time so let's say you you get this magical new honey chris what you do is you take a bunch of those those little branches off and you put them on other apple roots stock and then grow those out and then those are genetic clones of that new honey and then you do that again and then you do that again and so that's how and is each time one year or how long does it take to grow a tree it's probably like it's it would really depend on the type of fruit but it it it's probably it i'll say that this it'll shorten from growing from seed by like seventy eighty percent it's like way faster than growing it from seed not only that it you you have to do it that way because you won't get the same genetic apple and so what what guys like the honey guy you mentioned or there's there's a guy named floyd zag who's who's sort of known as like the godfather of stone fruit which is like peaches nectar all those types of of up trees what they do is they have tens of thousands i think of trees that they're cross poll growing out graft tasting testing and then when maybe point one percent of those actually become a variety they now have a patent on that because they've developed that what's called a cult they have that cult and then they can license that out for other people that put into production they take like a licensing fee on all those so you're right like once they actually create the next on chris for the next like killer peach they can make a cash flow off of that thing for like who knows how long until the next one comes around i'm looking at this guy floyd so he's ninety four years old it looks like he's he's still doing it i think i think he passed away like a couple years ago but he's like a total legend in the space oh yeah you're right he he passed away but it looked like based off the photos up until like when he passed away it looks like he was still yeah planting or or involved did he build a big what his name of his company was z zag genetics is that right yeah zag genetics and then what what there's a nursery called dave wilson nursery which i think they sell the most fruit trees in the us they use a lot of zag stuff so they'll they'll be the people who grow out a lot of floyd zag actual trees so it's it's a crazy model because you're right like good luck competing you you have to spend like twenty years to even get started does it make does it make is it like a good business or it something that looks awesome but day to day it's quite challenging i mean i don't think it's the easiest business you have to know a lot about plant bot and genetics and all that but like the people who like this type of stuff like there's nothing you could pay them to make them stop doing it is so they might as well have a business based on it you know yeah my parents are in the agriculture industry so my father his first business was a fruit stand on the he started as a stock boy and like the produce section of a grocery store then he opened up a fruit stand and then he created a produce brokerage which is like basically you have relationships with farmers in idaho or bakersfield california and you buy let's say five hundred thousand dollars of onions and then you go and find a trucker to pick it up and then you sell that five hundred thousand dollars of onions to walmart for five five five hundred thousand fifty thousand dollars and you make like ten grand of profit or something like that off organizing that that deal and you have to sell at this point he's sold over a hundred million dollars of of onions over the course of twenty years but the margins are like three percent or like like like you you know it it'll be basically him by himself selling twenty million a year worth of produce and like you make i don't know what you make but like three hundred thousand dollars a year or so good living but like you've gotta sell a shit ton of product in order because the the the margins are so small and so i've grown up talking to some of these farmers and it's it's it's it's more of a vocation than anything because it's just what they know it's you know they've been born and raised doing that and it's like i i am a farmer yeah no matter what and it's not like maybe traditional businesses where it's like i see an opportunity i'm gonna do this it's like no this is just what i was bred to be that's what i've noticed in in our space because there's a lot of like smaller product companies or small seed companies etcetera like no one's no one's trying to get super rich doing it like even even me like back in the earlier days i was like i i just i'm very happy making that two fifty that i made gross revenue and pulling out whatever i made it just so happened that i also like business and so they combined really well can i i'm we're well we'll wrap up here in a second but look i wanna ask you a quick question about diet i'm i'm a little i'm recently moved to a new place just mostly because it was across the street from a farmer's market and i've been obsessed with the idea of buying produce and meat that only comes within like a twenty or fifty mile radius of where i am because like even if you buy food at whole foods i still think like whole foods is supposed to be like some type of standard which i don't think it is a standard anymore but for a long time it was like that was the standard of healthy eating but i still feel crappy after i eat that because i don't you know like i don't even know what organic actually means and i don't actually bind to the height necessarily that that mix that is the right way to do things are you eating all of your own food and do you think that makes you feel different than grocery store food i think i think for sure it does because i don't know that i believe you know that book blue zones remember that one that came out so i think that that that book is awesome but i think it's bullshit like i think you think a good part of it is bullshit yeah you know why it's bullshit so here i'll tell audience i did a little research on it it's like what they all have in common is that like in osaka japan or like they lie about their age and so like they noticed that like wow this in this town there's a shit ton of people born on january first like what's going on and turns out a lot of them lie about their age i guess so they get social security at a certain time or something like that oh wow and so there was a lot like the the the the although maybe he there was some bit of truth in there the commonality between the five blue zones is that they have a huge amount of like age fraud i also saw something about that came imagine like lying to be older i saw something about like it also maps to when we started accurately tracking birth certificates like a lot of these people are old enough that they're from before when we did that and so how can you really know how old they are the thing i do and making that's that's the nicer way to put it when i maybe you said yeah yeah yeah well i think the thing that is somewhat true there is like it does seem to just make logical sense that the fresher food you eat the better off you'll be and so to me i go well it doesn't get fresher than ado own backyard right like we just had a amazing carrot salad we made yesterday i've even grown my own wheat to make my own sourdough bread which is definitely extreme like i don't think that's practical but yeah i mean i think you do feel better and i think the best the next best thing to grow your own food would be going to like a farmer's market as long as you know like the farmer is actually growing things the way that they say they are because now there's like farmers market fraud because down here in san diego people will drive up for mexico with like mono cropped food and just pretend like it's a farmers market what questions do i have to ask them you would have to ask like well where is your farm which they could definitely me about it show me pictures yeah yeah they they should have pictures of it and you could ask like you know do you spray pest or herbicide if fungi side if so like which ones you don't even have to know what their answers mean but if they can't fire the answers off quickly that's your signal that they kinda don't know what they're talking about what do you for me meet i tend to just buy at i'll i'll go to like a whole foods or there's like a local fish market call point seafood down here in san diego i'll try to go to and sometimes so i'm trying to get like some friends to do that like quarter cow thing with me yes so far no one's down so if you're out there caller i've been trying to do that as well you need like a huge garage fridge which is how you know you made it by i having a garage fridge to like store all this meat but i've been doing it too have you seen them it's called the it's called coup but if you google like coop oh yeah yeah we shadow them on our podcast a aj smart farm yeah yeah hey aj is a good buddy on mine aj awesome i what's his url i wanna give him a shout out dot farm coop dot farm so coop it's like it's like they like the tagline that i saw an article was like it's like the tesla for a chicken coop and it's so coop dot farm it's like a smart chicken coop and it looks pretty cool i think i might get one i think it'd be awesome to have your own chickens because that's like a pretty low maintenance way to kinda get into the habit or get a hobby the other thing that i've done for years is bee keeping so i've raised my own b's in order to get honey which is like awesome hobby and bee keeping is a cool thing because it requires like not much maintenance as all at all and from a business perspective you remember that flow high or whatever that went viral at kickstarter and it raised like twenty million dollars i do think that bee keeping like the the supplies could actually be a legitimately good business and you could create like could you can create like a lifestyle brand around it because the content to around that is like inherently quite viral like i used to create these like just videos of me like scraping off the honey or the what's it called the honeycomb comb honey from the comb yeah like scraping the comb off of my my trays or whatever that's in the hive i don't actually know anything about it even though i've had b's for years but like that's how little you have to know about this in order to like successfully do it like i would like scrape off the comb and like make these awesome videos and then just like give it to my friends and they loved it and it it's like such a fun hobbies yeah and so there's really big on that named i think her name is like texas b works i don't know if you've seen her stuff on the internet but she has a like very soft pleasing voice and she'll be like it'll there'll be music and it'll be some crazy scenario where there's a hive and she's like called out and she goes i've i've been called out to take this high out of a manhole to she has a a one point six million subs on youtube oh yeah yeah she's huge and so i i always look because i know what i did with epic and i look at all these other people and i go like don't you realize like you could have a thriving bee keeping like goods company but then you know the the sort of paradox of the whole creator world is that most creators just don't wanna do that and that's why they don't do it did she was on joe rogan i'm looking at it now erica watson she was on joe rogan she goes i did my first podcast and it's it's joe ro it's joe ro she goes i did my first podcast link is in the bio thank you so much joe rogan and team this was such a wonderful experience for me and my b's damn that's a flex right there that's a flex awesome this one this is like this is a gem this woman she's got it yeah bam bee keeping a good is an interesting hobby you you should try it out you like it requires no work and i'm pretty sure it makes your plants way better i noticed that whenever i get beat whenever i get bees you start seeing like all different types of flowers in the backyard that's the last thing i haven't done like i've got the chickens i've got it all the po you know i don't have here yet so i might have to get some b's due it cost like two hundred dollars to start like like my hive are from amazon for two hundred bucks and then you go on craigslist and you find like a b delivery person the lady that i used was just like beautiful like eastern european woman she shows up in her lexus she pops out within an hive she's not wearing any mask she's got like a fancy watch on and like beautiful blonde hair and nice clothes and she just goes like you know i've got your bees and i was like yes ma'am please come put them over here and i paid her two hundred dollars for the bees and the two dollars for the high that i on amazon and that's all you that's all i needed do you know what's right now i recently moved but up until recently yeah i had them on the i had them in san francisco and i had them in texas but in san francisco i had them at my small little house i had a backyard and then i also had them on the roof of my office in downtown san francisco and i had about ten thousand b's and you wouldn't even you could your hive could be like thirty feet away and you wouldn't even know that it's there yeah it's like a pretty self contained thing it's got some got a spot for my hive then i have the perfect spot in my back here for my house yeah and like i think i like i don't even know what i'm talking about and i have them and like i got i got stung i've been stung like twice like it's like not like that big of a deal like it's like people think it's a very intimidating una approachable hobby but i got into it because i like made a list of like i was like i need a hobby that doesn't require a ton of work i it can't cost a ton of money because if it cost a ton of money i'm gonna break rule number three which is i can't turn it into a business to make money and so like i like and i was like what's a good hobby that i saw a burt speed documentary and i was like that's a good hobby let's do it good so it's and a aj a buddy of mine and he got the into d keeping as well yeah yeah i'm excited to see how that coop that's our coop business does it's a really cool design well thanks for doing this dude you're the man you're you you're gonna be fun to watch over the next like five years this gonna be a very exciting journey i am we take pride on having people on before they get like right the beginning of their like take off and even though you're you're already incredibly successful i feeling that this is still gonna be early in your journey and and we're gonna brag about having you on early your career let's awesome did well thanks for having appreciate it yeah alright that's todd i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a days off on a travel never looking back