Getting Rich Quick Sucks - Andrew Wilkinson Teaches You How to Get Rich Slow

and we did it and he tweeted it out and he went from twenty thousand followers to i think close to a hundred thousand followers at this point in twenty four hours andrew what's going on the return of andrew we promised back we promised that you would come back and sometimes that's just something we say we're like oh we gotta do this again sometime but this was a real one so we're like alright when when do you wanna do it yeah feel like we we had like what like twenty things to get through we gotta do like four so what you gonna say we also bullshit around this time and not not address half of the topics again and set it up for a third party i i wanna i do wanna bullshit one thing and this kind maybe andrew you'll know a little bit about this but listen let me tell you guys like a story really quick andrew do you know a guy named chris pro no he is a hockey player he played in the nhl for like twenty years or something he it's from canada i think ontario and he played it saint louis blues he's like the fifth or six or seventh heights highest paid player of all time so for some reason he reached out to me on twitter and i started talking to him and then we went and got dinner and he wanted to he's like hey tell me how this twitter thing works like it looks cool like should i try this i was like yeah dude here's what we're gonna do tomorrow call me on zoom and the day before you call me send me five titles of what you think a tweet could be and we'll just sit and i'll just kinda like write while you talk and i'll just find the interesting stuff that you that you're saying and we'll go from there and we did it and he tweeted it out and he went from twenty thousand followers to i think close to a hundred thousand followers at this point in twenty four hours and the tweet was read by ten million people and got thirty something thousand likes and this is the fifth time i've done this so i did this with my friend ramon to and he got featured in all this he got he got on the how i built this podcast and business center because of that i did it my friend val who had same thing we did it with i helped to do it with my friend anthony who talked do you guys see the tweet thread about him living in africa and eating like only meet with like his the tribe he was staying with anyway this is this is crazy if you just take interesting people and it not like i did any of the work they were just talking them the story i help him write it it it's pretty wild how how the this game works and what were the stories what what did you share hit chris was easy it was just let me let me tell you one because let me tell let me tell you one of them because it got picked up by bro bible so the bro bible headline did it really x nhl star chris parker x nhl star chris parker shares traps that pro athletes fall into including spending one million at a strip club and so what why do you how did it get so many like so much traffic right away i think because the story got picked up by bigger outlets like blow bible too so that adds a lot of fuel to the fire it's hilarious yeah and and i retweeted it early on and but i think it's just like a he's already somewhat famous and cool and like but i think sometimes they like i'm not trying to say this to brag because the reality is is like it's not that hard because the guy are already like a big deal and has an interesting life and like you who's if you earned a hard five dude he's not that big of a deal well but what i mean is not that many people know chris pro but what i mean is if you earn a hundred million dollars in as a professional athlete you have like one you have there's only a thousand there's only a hundred people who have that insight that you have so right like the insights that are i wonder what you like if you think about the value you think about the value of what you did for him that's insane like if you went someone and said hey i'm gonna get you ten million impressions on a tweet or i'm gonna get you a hundred thousand followers what's that worth people pay like that's like honestly i'd say it's like a million dollar tweet or something that you gave him well yeah but you can't guarantee that right so it's like a hard services to sell oh dude you should do it right here right now you should say i will write i will write tweets for you but depending on the outcome and the number of followers you have to pay me a certain amount so it's totally variable yeah that would actually be worth your time so andrew i i i had a right before this i was on a a twitter spaces with logan paul i was talking to logan paul this on no so only the second most famous person i've talked to this morning yeah only a little bit more famous holy crap that's crazy what you do these days he just launched a like a marketplace like a fractional ownership you're n things so he basically created this thing called liquid marketplace where we're like i don't know if you've seen but he's really into pokemon cards like charizard cards and stuff like that like that's been his thing over the last few years is like these collectible either sports cards or pokemon cards and so what he did today was he launched a a fractional like a rally roads style marketplace where he would put up like you know his charizard card and you could just buy like a share of it rather than he bought the thing for two million and you could buy you know a piece of the a piece of the the pie there so that's what he launched today so that's why he was kinda doing like our promotional thing and i i was like i'll shoot my shot and so i just like you know to raise my hand or whatever and went and talk to him we that it's crazy the power of a the mode of a personal brand and a following right like those guys they can build they could build a hundred businesses off of their following and that chris p guy the reason that's so valuable is he can now start his own business doing whatever he wants selling shirts selling n t's starting a consulting business managing money for other hockey players you know whatever off of that hundred thousand people the optional of it is insane obviously the downside of it is if you're logan paul your logan paul and you've ultimately gotta be the face did you yeah did you just station i was keep telling him go ahead sorry got a little delay yeah i was i was just telling andrew i talked to a little paul this morning that's the that was the on the phone or in front of people on the door in in front of on a twitter spaces just randomly i saw that i was listening but i i didn't his name on twitter is not i think it had a nickname on it so i couldn't tell if it was logan was he cool yeah he was cool i mean he's like promoting this thing which is you know he was so he that's why he was he was on there like because he launched a new like rally road competitor basically and and so i was just joking around with them basically that i know you guys covered it in they'll more things we but the that personal brand thing andrew you kinda got that early on because you built your personal brand back i think before a lot of people were doing it because you kinda built it i would say pre twitter even was that right like did did you kinda have a blog following before twitter or was it all on twitter yeah i had a blog and stuff but honestly like we're pretty quiet until covid and then drink covid i was bored and lonely and wanted to talk to people and so going on podcast was like a a way to socialize and then i realized the power of it like once i started getting a you know thirty thousand forty thousand twitter followers i realized that when i talked about a business i was inc i had our first thousand customers in a split second and so from my perspective you know i talked the last time about being like a dust bowl farmer mindset of what if you lose everything there's such power in that you could literally go bankrupt you could lose all your businesses you could reboot in two days with a business idea if you have a twitter falling and no one can take your twitter falling away obviously dude you were not low before twitter you were famous before that yeah yeah thank you exactly well no no i'm saying like i i i was i was i was never i was on a single major podcast and i was i was well known like when i was south by southwest there'd be people all the time recognizing me from twitter but that was a very small nerdy community or whatever so i would i was well known within like the design community but that was it alright or whatever you say i feel like before covid we had you on the podcast and it was already one of the more popular podcast because you were on it and people were like people already knew your story so i i don't know i feel like you might be the the timeline in your head might be a little bit different than then kind of at least the way i pursued was you were famous you were famous when we started the podcast yeah and we started the podcast before covid so that's weird yeah my perception is like all of it has just been the last three years or whatever can i give you guys saying is true that like you you your personal brand does like kinda give you it's a door that opens more doors but the downside is you have to say you're you have to say to yourself i'm building my personal brand which is one of the lame statements you could say so you know if you can live with that if you could sleep with that at night then it that it works out for you i don't know that it it's hard for me and sam to to do that can we give that's that's kinda why i haven't started my own podcast or consistently tweeted or anything right i like i to be honest like i'm hacking your audience right i'll come on here once in a while when i have things to say but i don't wanna have to always come on and always tweet and when i was tweeting consistently i was driving myself crazy because i was constantly going like okay what's my big tweet today can we let me give you well let me give you guys an update on the pod i don't know if i told you this sean or you andrew so and then we'll get into andrew stuff when we first started i think i told sean or he told me i was like let's just get to a hundred thousand downloads in episode and i bet we can do that so sean we are now not consistently for all episodes but they just told me that a lot of or a couple of our episodes are now getting over a hundred thousand downloads which is like pretty it's pretty good wow that's the that's been the goal for all of like a while like i feel like i've been that's been the north star of what would it mean to like kinda make it in podcasting it was like if we could do it we're a hundred thousand downloads per episode because everybody else bullshit like and we do this too like we get this many million downloads a month but it's like yeah you just pump out volume and like you know great the only test that really matters for pocket is how many listens per episode do you get that's like the best metric you can get and i remember we we were saying the hundred thousand number back when we had like under i feel like a slightly under ten thousand per episode at that time that's when i first kinda put that out there and then it's just been like climbing sense that's kinda crazy that it even happened without us like it's kinda like when i looked away from it and stop paying attention to it like sure enough compounding just worked to end it like got there you know without saying you have to stress it in december or no january one of the one of the last couple months we crossed two million downloads per month that year prior that same time i think was five hundred thousand and so i my prediction is i think we can get hit three million by december i've got no math or anything behind that but i think that seems like it could happen so anyway just wanna give you another the biggest podcast do what's like a what's the what's like tim ferris do per episode do you know i have to imagine these in the five hundred thousand to million range i i think he's probably even a little bit higher than that i know that bill simmons or joe rogan i forgot which one it was i was looking to at the time they're they're two of the biggest i remember they were getting like three or four million downloads per episode i think it was bill simmons at the time three or four million downloads per episode is what he was getting and he was like consistently the top five possibly do you should track though think about like so tim ferris has been podcasting for what eight or nine years or whatever and that's how long it took him to catch to that scale you guys might actually be growing faster than tim ferris if you chart it out well i'm already six over six feet so i did outgrow him a while back god you are dad that dad alright let's do one of the let's do some of these topics you got a bunch on here i'm just gonna say them out loud and i got i have no idea what these mean but i'll just pick the ones that sounds most interesting tweet we were we were having a text thread we're kind of talk texting about the idea of getting rich fast versus getting rich slow taking a big swing versus doing something boring do i slow i thought that was like a podcast that because no that was a text message we should do that andrew can you frame it because i think you had you had a good take and i'm also gonna give you the advantage of framing the frame the debate a little bit as what is the debate here so i think i think anyone who's in the tech world generally you read headlines about people who swung big and they they won big like jeff bezos and i always say for every jeff bezos there's a hundred jeff bezos right so the guys that tried they failed they they didn't raise the convertible debt in nineteen ninety nine that allowed amazon to survive or you know they timed it slightly wrong or they're were in the wrong market or whatever it is and so if you think about it you know on one hand startups are like a house like would you would you buy a house that had an eighty percent chance of being worth zero a ten percent chance of making your money back and had a ten percent chance of making you rich right and then let's say there's another house and that hosts there's an eighty percent chance of giving you a pretty solid return ten percent chance of zero and a ten percent chance of a poor return which of those houses are you gonna buy and if you think about it you know when you start a business you're really saying i'm gonna put five to fifteen years of my time into this right so i am i've certainly chosen you know the boring house the eighty percent chance of solid return ten percent chance of zero ten percent chance of poor return i'd be curious to know you know how you guys think about it sam you wanna go first so i think your numbers are are i think your idea is right the problem that i had when we talked about this was i think your numbers are wrong like the whole eighty percent ten percent now i i'm gonna let you talk about any numbers that you wanna talk about with your life if you don't wanna talk about anything then don't even bring it up but let's just say that so everything i'm right now is just made up let's just say that you you want a business that makes ten million dollars a year okay or no let's say that you wanna get a net worth of fifty million dollars that time you're fifty how much do you think that you would need to make a pro profit to get a fifty million dollar liquid net worth how much profit do you think that you would need if you started that business at thirty i would think that you would need a profit i actually go i did the math on this actually before i wrote it down so if you have a million dollars at age thirty and you can invest you can produce profits of maybe three hundred to five hundred k year at between ten to twelve percent you can have a hundred million dollars by sixty with compounding so okay so break million again million dollar network worth is your start so let's say you have a million dollars let's say you have a million dollars at age thirty and you start a business and that business produces five hundred k year and you just take that five hundred k year and you reinvest it and you managed to re to invest it at about ten percent which is a little above historical market returns so let's say that you're a good investor you're a nick hub you're gonna just put it in steady at real estate that outperform a little bit or something but there's a hundred million dollars by sixty yeah but there's a flaw here which is do you have you're assuming that you have zero living expenses sure yeah i'm not talking i'm not really addressing that for you're just talking about i guess the point three hundred the number you need the number you need the number you need to start with does it's doesn't need to be that big like a small number can compound into something staggering for if you have a long enough time horizon and especially if you're outperforming ten percent i think is quite low compared to what you can and it with skills so let's go backwards so you said a hundred million by sixty and if i think the trick with most compounding is it all kinda comes to you at the end of the last two cycles three cycles is where you make all the money so the so backtrack what do you add at fifty and forty in that world i know we don't get public math i just did the headline wow like your calculator you can you you you can kinda guess if you're at a hundred at sixty you're probably in the range of fifty at fifty so yeah know you basically double every seven years right at that pace so you're at seven seven percent doubles over ten years two million ish which is sick that's right that's sick okay cool here's here's the question so you know everyone loves to point at people who are sitting on massive paper gains like let's say let's say that sam started a startup up and vcs invested at a five billion dollar valuation in reality that doesn't mean sam sam's a billionaire on paper but he's not gonna realize that until the company ipo maybe he takes a small secondary maybe he's got a ten million twenty million dollar liquid net worth but he's really not a liquid billionaire until that company ipo sells to somebody and typically the timeline even in a text startup up is fifteen years right and so my argument is you know you can take a big swing with a venture bet but i mean statistically you can argue all you want but most venture businesses fail right at at least an eighty percent failure rate and maybe five at five percent at most go on to be something at scale and and large right so i think what i advocate isn't go uber conservative and go get a salary or go by a dry cleaner and work there for the rest of your life it's more what's in the middle what's the third door and i like to look at somebody like nick hub who found a niche and he said look i i'm gonna go buy a bunch of self storage businesses these are businesses that have been around for a hundred years i have a very specific view on how to make them more profitable and he knows he can earn between fifteen percent and forty percent buying a bunch of those he just does that for the next ten years he's gonna be worth hundreds millions of dollars yeah i i'm actually with you i think i i didn't just rant on the podcast that nobody liked which was that you're an idiot if you go for the olympics like going for the olympics is a trap that you know society has tricked you into giving up your entire life to like turn yourself into a human tool that can just you know bobs bobs led at one tenth of a second faster than anybody else and you know people didn't like that because everybody likes the olympics and we're supposed to honor our athletes and blah blah blah but basically venture like venture back startups is the same thing it's the olympics of business where you're basically saying okay i am going to swing for this billion dollar prize which only point one percent of the the startups are gonna be able to you know like to achieve this type of outcome and if i miss i get essentially zero that's kind of change nowadays because you get to maybe take second along the way if you if you make progress but like a lot of times i would say the average you know the the median result is essentially zero or you know you've underpaid yourself by fifty to seventy five percent of market salary during those you know seven years that you use seven to ten years you spent trying to do it and you worked way harder and you had a worse lifestyle the whole time so you know like the venture the venture thing is like the olympics thing you sacrifice your your lifestyle for this very rare and often like you know like at least in the olympics case sort of a trivial you know here's here's a piece of metal you know at least in at least with sort of if you if you hit big you you do become a billionaire so so that that that does pay off but i'm i kinda think that the venture path is that and you really only do it for ego is my like the my current understanding of it which is like either you do it because it's your calling meaning you stumbled into a business opportunity or problem you try to solve it just so happens to be that the way this looks is gonna be like a winner or take all massive massive business if you do it right or you are like i wanna play the ego olympics and i want to prove that i am the toughest smartest you know entrepreneur in the world and so i'm gonna go down this path and like everybody will cheer you on the media will cheer you on because hey what's it to them you sacrifice yourself for their their pleasure the investors will all cheer you on and call you a hero because it to them they get to go home every day at four pm and you know to their house in at they don't they don't care you know how many hours it takes you for your like low probability of success they have a portfolio you know so really it's the entrepreneur who in some ways i feel gets tricked into it i say that as somebody who who in in many ways was tricked into it not by anybody's evil just by the way that the game is set up and now i've come to the realization that like more nimble small lightweight businesses that provide like a lot of cash flow or businesses that you just buy instead of trying to start a new genius idea from scratch is definitely the way to go from a logical rational perspective you could still choose to do the other one because you want to do it we're fun to you but the logic and reasoning is so far on the side of going for a cash flow you know cash flow business that promotes like you know it gives you an awesome lifestyle from essentially year one or buying a business that's already working and just using your intelligence to grow it is like a far better path on paper than it than the venture path and say that as somebody who kind of and my natural inkling is to go towards that venture path because it's so sexy well and also i mean it can all go away on the venture path it can all go away so fast right and i think the reason why it's not done as often is people are attracted to get rich quick right nobody wants to get rich slow and like sean said the only way to get rich right now is like someone is in crypto and they're liquid and they have a massive gain but those stories are so few in far between if you wanna get rich by building a business even if on paper you're a billionaire in year two my argument is you're not liquid until ten years fifteen years anyway right it's very rare that you start a business on year one and in year five you're a liquid billionaire and to me ultimately liquidity is what matters so often in these things right either you have cash flow or you can sell your stock or you can use it in some way have you met michael act smith you've heard his name he's the cofounder of calm but before that he had what was the name of his brain mo monsters i think it is is that it's it's either middle monster i it's monsters so he was in the uk and he created essentially like a pokemon type of phenomenon so like i think moshe it it was in the uk it was like this children's kind of like there was like these characters and then you would like i don't you were like it was like a game or something like that like this online little world you would go into do this and that turned into many things it was a brand turning of anything things they put it they slap those characters on shampoo had started selling it over there and he dreamed of having a theme park and you know he's a really like big dream big thinker type of guy super creative you know you wouldn't you wouldn't have created that in the first place this like phenomenon like a like a pokemon or a dig wan or you know these like these brands are just catch fire i think at one point like one in three kids in the uk were playing it so it was like you know just an insane like cultural phenomenon and it was valued over a billion dollars and he was the fucking man and he was you know he looks like russell brand if you see him like he's just like this like kinda like you good looking like wait does this guy have sex in public he seems like a guy who was sex in public and it's like you know he's got this free love energy and he if you meet him here like yeah exactly he's got like you know he's got scars he's you know maximum two buttons up on a colored shirt so like you know the guy the guy walking around with two buttons right so he's just living his best life and so he had the persona and then he had the the the movement to back it up and it just seemed like this is a this is the type of guy who creates he's like a walt disney type of guy who creates this type of phenomenon and you know rick you know rich branson who loves and everybody loves it and then sure enough you know they kinda got ahead of their skis and all of a sudden you know like whatever third grade came around for those second graders and they were like you know what i don't care about monsters anymore i have moved on to the next thing and there's like overnight the business starts losing relevancy the character start losing relevancy and like nobody's blind nobody's buying the plush toys and the tv show doesn't wanna get made anymore whatever they they started to unwind essentially it was very hard for them to like reverse that cycle because you know like as fast as you can climb as a like fad phenomenon that's as fast as it can unwind and so i i don't know exactly what his net worth was but i'm you know he was the main guy it was the company was worth over a billion dollars i'm sure he was worth hundreds of millions of dollars on paper but never got to realize it and then it basically had to start back over from scratch as like you know just a guy and is you know just a guy who who's like went through this went through this like roller coaster but what like didn't have the money to show for it which makes it even more amazing that they you know he went and and helped seed calm like c found calm and then join calm and help grow calm into like a multi billion dollar brand so he's kinda done it again and i just think that's amazing i had the original agency and in the early days the agency barely made any me money but it was a couple hundred thousand dollars and i read about the base camp guys you know doing these saas products and stuff and i was like man i wanna make money when i sleep that sounds amazing and so i started just taking most of my profits and starting you know saas software companies by the way set up ninety ten right you put ninety percent back into the business into new stuff or whatever and totally percent you lived in the early days it was probably eighty twenty but then over time i ramped it up so basically i was taking the majority of the profits anything i didn't need to live on was almost all going into inc businesses i inc a bunch and you know some of those businesses ended up being worth you know one i sold for seven million bucks and was producing six hundred seven hundred k year of profit or something like that so i would i made a lot of bets with that money and i ended up compounding into something significant but then i ended up continuing to take that money and just do the eighty twenty ninety ten strategy of always investing and i really started making a lot more money when i went from starting businesses to buying businesses and investing which i started about seven years ago hold on those numbers don't make sense yeah tell you sounds like twenty two two hundred percent net income yeah well no mean no so so it's like you know let's say let's say let's say metal revenue is a million dollars we made five hundred k of profit and so that's what's left over at the end after we pay taxes and stuff i take eighty percent of that five hundred k and i'd use it to start more businesses right and i would just do this on a monthly basis whatever was left over in the bank account that i didn't need to run the business i would go and i'd use it to start yet another business and i you i've been doing that for fifteen years now and we're i think you know all of our businesses together worth over a billion dollars did you do you know how much you were compounding so for example you took the money and you either started a business or bought like controlling share in an existing business versus just saying i'm gonna put this into real estate or the stock market or angel invest or whatever how how much additional lift do you think you've got some meaning like at what percent were you compounding by doing the extra work of like identifying and buying businesses and owning them versus like if you had done a more kind of like hands off strategy which maybe let's say i think somebody like you could have got ten to fifteen percent consistently i think i could've if i was passive i could have got eight to twelve percent right putting it in real estate stocks that kind of stuff by buying businesses you know there's a lot of advantage in that we could use a little bit of debt because we controlled the whole business right so you can get the bank to give you twenty or thirty percent of it which adds a lot of lift on your return and then we were buying these businesses anywhere from three to ten times earnings and then we would usually within the first two years we would find ways to double the business within one to two years so you start think about it and you go okay well that's a a kind of two to five year payback depending on what's happening that's based on cash and then the actual value of the business as you grow the earnings increases over time right the numbers start getting very big very quickly especially when you've done that you know twenty times so what do you think was the like what do you think was the compounded rate well i don't know how long the last but it goes back to to at the end of the day you know when i started i was making you know two hundred k a hundred k a year and today our businesses make you know over fifty million dollars of profit across everything so so what what what percent rate do you think you you were able to generate you think you're were compounding at like forty percent i think probably in the end it's it's something or we did the math a couple years ago because we raised a fund and i think it was like forty forty some percent now keep in mind you know that was at a time we're not that many people were doing what we were doing so you know it's gotten more competitive over time and those are small deals it's really easy to compound at high rates when you're doing small deals as you do bigger ones i think we'll probably slow down on that but it's not a number i think about i i i you know i never was like i wanna compound at forty four percent i was like i just wanna make my money back in a reasonably safe way i wanna buy great businesses and i wanna feel good about what i do that's crazy to me because you're andy mu you you know the whole buffet mu like philosophy is based on compounding over a long period of time and the number one variable i guess is time how long you're gonna do it for and what's the rate right that's like the two totally key things but even if you jump rate you know okay let's drop that a rate down to fifteen percent or ten percent it's still hundreds of millions of dollars right that's what's crazy about compounding is you don't need to outperform massively you just need to do you know a little better than everybody else and if you do as well as everyone else you're still good and alright let me just ask this question which was two things of your businesses how many of them do you actually think in last twenty thirty forty years and also if you can buy any company right now internet related business what are a handful that you like that you like you know just to give an example to me sean the the listener of like things that you would look for you know not actually something you can buy but something that like this is what i want and name a very specific one yeah so you know think of about accenture right so accenture i forget it was part of one of the big five consult and then i got spun out but it basically they help people do like consulting strategy digital transformation that kind of stuff that business will definitely exist for the next thirty years you know i don't know why it i wouldn't and in the same vein i think like meta lab and our agency services businesses you know we're really early in every business turning into a tech company right over the next twenty years more and more companies will have to build software and go digital and i think there's all only so much talent so i think those are tremendous businesses for the next twenty years i don't know how to predict over very long times aero press is a business i think will exist in fifty years you know i don't see any reason why it wouldn't will it have the same competitive advantages as it does today will it get a bunch of copycat hats probably but you know k still exists and it's a hundred years later right so i don't know i mean we also own i own like a bunch of restaurants in a bakery and you know if people still like their food as they have for the last thirty years those will probably exist in thirty years but we do own businesses that their you know platform dependent or you know technology dependent where the c's can change and there's no way to predict how long they can go but i've been surprised how long some of our businesses have persisted and grown it just goes back to like you know not not underestimating anything and andrew i'm gonna give you one of the the like the devil's advocate to the don't go for the big big home run strategy which is something else i believe is true i believe it's true that kinda like lifestyle business and a big biz like you know a lifestyle business and a moonshot business will both basic take up all of your time so might as well go big that's another way of looking at it right so for example i've i've run a restaurant i've started a tech company in both cases it was on my mind all the time i was working on it you know we five six days a week you know at minimum as many hours as i could i was trying to do it to make it successful a restaurant was gonna be able to spit off you know a hundred fifty to two hundred thousand dollars of profit off that location and you know a tech company could be worth a hundred million dollars in two years and so like those are just different size of the prize for the same level of effort probability of success i would say you know you can do better restaurants not a great example because they fail a lot but like let's say dental clinic or something yeah yeah dental you a dental clinic you'd probably do great but you'd have agency or whatever this so probably is that's different but also with a bigger more ambitious project you also every day you get to be more excited about it you get to recruit better people because their great talent is really excited about it versus like i know like for example my online course business i know i could do better for hire people but like not everybody wants to come work on that project for you know and then i'm gonna get somebody who wants just that with is willing to accept a salary that i can afford and that's usually not the a plus person i like to work with so you know you get stuck in that middle middle zone yeah i don't i'm not advocating for some tim ferris lifestyle work for hour work week kind thing i think you know warren buffett is not a lifestyle he doesn't have a lifestyle business he has a business he loves to run and he does exactly what he wants to do but personally you know i like inc integrating businesses starting new businesses getting excited about stuff i just go i do that off the side of my desk right so it's twenty percent of my time thirty percent of my time i also like buying great businesses and letting them run and choosing ceos and doing the buffet thing but i need excitement and you know all the other stuff but i'm in no way saying it's any less challenging i'm just saying your odds of success are higher and let's be real if you go to the gym and you try and lift you know eight hundred pounds on your bench on day one you probably will fail that doesn't feel very good but if i give you an eighty pound bench and you lift it you're gonna feel really good about yourself right and so i just wanna jump over the one foot hurdles right i wanna feel a sense of success and i think when people start out in tech and they do a start up and they fail and it's brutal a lot of those people turn around and say well i'm never doing that again when they might have been great entrepreneurs in some other format right i just think it's the hardest lift it's the olympics as you said let's do one of these other topics alright so well i'm gonna name it and you give us your r on it so doing it wrong before you do it right what's that yeah so i am i finally put my finger on this because i people always criticize me because i will hire i'll hire the wrong person right i will i'm a big advocate if i an idea and i just wanna get moving i will just go and i'll hire whoever's in front of me and i'll say hey let's go do this and that does not work that well obviously but what it does do is it forces you to make it real right so you know for example when i knew i wanna go direction i will do this so i've always loved food and restaurants i always dreamed of starting my own restaurant i did i started my own restaurant i went and i signed a lease i shouldn't have i hired the wrong manager and i lost eight hundred grand right total learning experience here's what it did though it forced me into that industry it made me learn it it made me make a lot of mistakes and then i found the good people through that so actually via because i was in that restaurant that failed i met the guy next door who ran a very successful restaurant and when he wanted it when his partner wanted to sell this the stake i ended up buying it and now i own this wonderful restaurant and i know it's good because i've owned a bad restaurant right so directional moving into something and i i think people are way too pre precious with their hiring like they just need to do it and then let people go and it doesn't work out so that's kinda what i mean by that too many people think they're measuring twice but cutting once and they just never cut they just measure forever so but do you just have to fire people all the time no not all the time i mean like i've gone really lucky with lots of these it's like fifty fifty right the pattern that i've seen the best thing to do when you're going to a new industry is look for somebody who's actually succeeded within it the problem is that when you're when you're the rub at the table when you're the newbie to the industry even i'm moron on looks like a genius so that's that's the hard part right and i've certainly i've certainly made that mistake before and you got this new business called mailman right mailman the gmail plug it's i've had that i've actually had that for a couple years but yeah basically yeah it basically it bake it so that you only get an email a couple times a day so you're not putting your inbox all day it it's picking up steam it feels like right now and you met a guy on twitter who you got to run it right like and that's an example if you just like yeah whatever you're you're you're an engineer you seem like you might be able to do this is do it a hundred percent i i'll do this all the time so i literally that same year i did it twice i i tweeted out i said hey i've got this idea for a gmail plugin i need someone to build it who wants to build it this guy mo hit in india messaged me sent me a great email and he said tell me what you wanted to do and i'll have it two and forty eight hours and he did and over and over again he just kept delivering there is another business idea i had where i went to the guy i did the exact same thing and he just didn't make any progress and so i said hey after three months it's not working out and went a different direction but you know fifty percent of the time it works really well and now we not only have mailman but we actually started a company a holding company in india and we're looking at acquisitions and we've got him managing some of our businesses so it's been it's been awesome that's crazy and this kinda like it feeds into this idea like i wrote it down here but taking chances on people which is the most satisfying thing like i don't know for you guys like when i was like fifteen i always had this feeling of like someone just needs to give me a chance like i'm a dog to a bone i just need the opportunity and no one ever gave me that chance no one ever saw that in me so i had to start my own business and i had i've had this experience a few times where i've taken a crazy chance on someone like have i told you guys about how i met my business partner chris no so maybe like two years into business i am a bank balance accountant so like you sean i don't do bookkeeping i don't understand what's going on i don't know how to pay taxes i would just look at the bank count and if the bank account was bigger on day thirty than it was on day one i thought i was winning and one day i go into the bank and i'm trying to get a corporate credit card and the teller says oh you need to go talk to mister spa he'll fill out of the forms for you and so i go into the back of the bank and i get welcomed into this nice office and mister spa looks like the son of mister spa he's like this little skinny twenty three year old and we start chatting and immediately just hit it off with this guy we're joking around and talking about our days and our lives and stuff and after i was done doing this i go like hey what's your deal like what you know do you wanna stay at the bank like what what are what you doing and he goes well i'm thinking about getting my accounting designation or something like that i don't really know and i just blur out do you wanna be my cfo and he's kinda taken aback and he's like hey like let's you know let's go get a coffee tomorrow we'll talk about it and i convinced him to come and be my cfo he has almost no accounting experience he worked at a bank on paper he's like the wrong guy to be a cfo of a business not the time we're doing over a million dollars i think and he just shows up on day one and i trust him i give him my social security number all my information banking wires everything and chris is now my business partner of twelve years he's responsible for a significant amount of everything good that's happened in my career and he's an incredible person now fe every story like that i have you know someone who is terrible and incompetent ranging from that to fraudulent but when you do take a chance on someone one in ten times it pays off big and so what i've struggled with is not knowing you know you obviously don't wanna take that level of risk still but i gotta figure out a way to give people chances i have do you think that a large great story on that i guess i tell a story of same thing same thing that they just have i'll give you a good and a bad because they both hit yesterday and so i'll give you the bad one first so the bad one i took a chance on a person who honestly i still think this guy's is a good guy i like this guy he was a i met him work working out so he was a he trained with my trainers like i work workout partner basically he came over to our house and worked out with this one day randomly nice guy young guy and he was like an a apprentice plumber at the time so he's a plumber in training and with and like we had a issue with our three p for our e commerce business which was like we had a theft issue at our at the warehouse that we were working with and then the owner was kind like yeah i don't know i keep you can't prove that we stole it i'm like dude you have the goods and now they're gone like who else who else stole it except for someone at the warehouse he's like oh let's check the cameras oh don't keep the footage sorry and so i just got so pissed i was like we're leaving like fucking tomorrow i and so i was like alright we're we're not using this three billion anymore we're gonna just do our own warehouse warehousing i didn't know the first thing about warehouse warehousing but i was like okay whatever i know we'll figure it out so we i i has to sign a lease of this like eight thousand square foot warehouse near us and i was like alright i definitely don't wanna run this warehouse but it's like the stuff is coming tomorrow so we need to find somebody so i i'm working out that day and i'm like hey you wanna you gotta run a warehouse else you say what and i was like you know you're kind of like a hardworking working blue collar guy like you wanna try this well never really anything like this i was like don't worry like i'll take a shout on you and like you're gonna make a bunch of mistakes that's okay i understand because you've never done this before i've also never done it before let's figure it out together and like you know you'll learn from this and who knows like this might lead to a future you want we had talked about what he might want in the future like he wanted a one day own real estate on his own business and i go you know this could become that like if we open up a second warehouse like we'll buy that one and you know you could be a part owner in it you could run basically at your our our own in house three p like you could fulfill not just our brand but other brands too so i had kinda laid out this vision he was super excited about it and in my head i'm already i do this thing all the time samuel you'll appreciate i always imagined the hustle con talk this is like a phrase i use all the time ago alright imagine two years from now you're on stage talking about how we growth hacked our way to success what are the stories we're gonna tell or like how we survived chaos and like absolute like you know disasters but still made it so i always work backwards from like i imagine telling the story on stage and it just gets me more excited about the current moment and like so i was already imagining like this plumber there's like a apprentice plumber that we hired that now but is this amazing guy and i'm like imagining all these great things and it started off good it was going good but then like you know here we are you know a year later or nine months later or something like that and you know all of a sudden ball's being dropped on a couple things and not really growing at the rate we wanna grow in terms of his growth as a leader of that part of the business but i'm still holding that hope and then i find out he's kinda like scamming like trying like start his own thing he like sees us growing like trying to start his own version of it and like you know what like it's okay to be you wanna be an entrepreneur to start your own but like if you do it board i'm cool with it if you're kind of her on the company time company dime like trying to steal our idea like that's not cool to me so so anyways how this like kind of that all came to head yesterday i was like look this is not working i guess you like my bet was a wrong here this like hope that we could help this plumber guy become like this like star like throw that hustle talk away that's not happening and i'm feeling kinda bad and then the afternoon and i get a call from this guy johnny and johnny's is a kid who i hired it i think aged thirteen or fourteen he called me one day at the office and he goes hey is this sean i was like yeah how'd do you get this number who is this he goes my name is johnny i met pete who works at your office at the at the dog park i go okay and he is everything okay with pete he's like yeah yeah he said that you know i'm in eighth grade i'm a programmer and he goes and i don't know any other programmers it's sub i thought to be summer and like i just wanna hang out around other programmers i have never met one can i come hang out at your office this summer and i was like how can say be this winter i'm like sweater i'm like okay this cold call is a yes so he shows up and like the idea was he'll just like he's just gonna be over there in the corner he just wanted like shadow the environment or like whatever first day i was like we're in a meeting i was like oh you know what we should do we should do this like viral a little quiz we don't have enough people to do it i was like hey johnny get in here johnny can you build a website he's was like yeah like you didn't know how to but he's just like yeah i think i could and i was like alright i build this today and he like literally stayed there till midnight that day and like had a version of it working by that night probably was under like such an immense amount of pressure now that i looked back and i probably poor guy like you know aged the guy for probably five years and so anyways he he just joins us full time as an eighth grader by tenth grade he it's like johnny needs to be here full time johnny is the man johnny is the fucking man and he's like hanging out with a bunch of like old neck beards like us and and and he's like and i wanna drop out of high school and just wanna do this and his mom is so worried about him dropping out and i like go and i meet with his mom and i'm like man he's not dropping out he's going pro like when lebron james he skipped college because he was going pro he was just that advance and like she was like okay if you put it that way that sounds good like i don't feel bad about my kid anymore you know like okay if you say so and so and then he became when we got acquired became the youngest amazon employee i think in the in all of amazon at that during the acquisition and now he's like starting his own now he's i don't know nineteen or something like that and he was kid's name give jump johnny dallas johnny dallas i don't know i'll pull up his talk somehow so he has his own start now and it's like he just called me yesterday he's like yeah it's going pretty good like we just got a term sheet from you know i i guess i probably shouldn't say the firm but it's like the best vc firm sorry he's it's like the best vc firm just gave us a term sheet you know thirty eight million dollar post valuation i was like johnny you know have you had puberty yet what's going on dude like this is crazy to be but that was and i told him i go dude he goes thanks for just making the time i go bro you know don't understand this is the best feeling i can get it's like i feel like i bet on you you were my personal angel investment and like we became friends and then you're actually doing the thing you like actually did the thing that i always hope somebody does which is like take the opportunity and just fucking run with it and become a superstar and like when it happens it's so worth it and you're like alright i'll do this ten more times even if i whip nine more times if there's another johnny in there like this is this is gold for me totally there's nothing better than when it does work but it's so painful and it doesn't because you're just going like dude don't you see this right like that guy you gave the opportunity to you know he could owned the business with you and done the real estate and all the other stuff one question what was what were the warning signs that that guy wasn't gonna be the guy because chris has this thing about he calls gum it's like yeah if you say to them hey balls in your court do they follow up within twenty four hours do they move the ball forward are they do bad it if before you even gave me that example you go over the red flags or the bad signs it was exactly this during one of the workouts after we brought them on board we're still working out together and i go i go dude here's my vision for you like what what's the dream he gave me this idea like i own real estate it's like do you have at the moment you have no pathway to real estate you like you're just making enough to live let alone and you don't know anything about real estate so like you know he didn't really know his path and i told him i said here's the plan we're gonna open up another warehouse i wanna own real estate let's buy it i'll give you a piece and you run it you you and we turn this into a business where you actually are running your own business inside that real estate as our own three p because i know this that e commerce booming is a good idea and i didn't hear from him like he was in the moment he was like oh wow that's awesome yeah that's great and then there was no follow up for three months and then i met up with him and he was and he was in the other boat he goes yeah like i wanted to like talk more about that but i didn't hear from you and i was like didn't hear from me he's like know i thought maybe maybe you would like you know i really been excited about that i've been thinking about it i i've been i know i was research i was googling some places i go bro if that was me and some of these late and somebody gives me a window into a life i want i'm like knock knock knock hey but that thing he said but you know here's exactly what i'm planning to do to move the ball forward hey here's a couple links hey i put together a spreadsheet hey i'm making a checklist of like we can do this if i hit these goals and like you gotta do the work at that point and so the biggest red flag was that he didn't follow up on that opportunity and he is not that he didn't want to he just didn't know that that's what you're supposed to doing it wasn't his natural inclination to like to do that and i noticed that with johnny it's the opposite it's like tell johnny something he'll if you give an she'll take a mile type a guy they'll tell he'll text you at nine o'clock a night and say hey check this out check out the website i'm working on this guy that i i gave the other opportunity to obviously i won't share any details about it but he he i emailed them and said dude haven't heard from you in two months what's going on and he goes yeah i've i redesigned the website take a look and i was like you should sent me this on day one when he had a a design show me there's momentum instead we've lost all this momentum and yeah it's it's crazy but there's no better high i i just found another guy like this and i'll tell you the signs that i i i will bet right now this guy's is gonna be a winner so this guy's i didn't know this until i hired him he's just graduated from college he's got like a dot edu email address and but he had emailed me being like hey heard you on the pod talk about something like you know you wanna give you wanna be doing something philanthropist he because goes here's a better idea let's create a micro grant where you give out like whatever it is someone out of money that that's you're cool with and like write a grant for people who who do something i know you're all about action and making shit happen so like give it away to people who are gonna make shit happen that's better than charity it'll feel better for you so the guy like knows me he reached out intelligently he says he's doing things he doesn't pitch his company which by the way is meant to be who's trying to start like a micro like angel is for grants instead of like startups it's like a way to quickly spin up like a grant program and i was like you got my attention but i know i was like yeah i'm make sure that sounds like you're great idea let's what whatever and then he followed up like ten times in the next like twelve days he was like hey here's three ideas for what your grant could be tell me which are those three you like just send back the number one two or three then he's like hey i saw your tweet about this other thing remember the grant thing you should do this instead of that right and he just kept following up intelligently each time so i was like already like this guy's a winner and i told him i go hey dude i don't have a ton of time for this grant thing but like you're awesome if you ever wanna like do something like and he was like no i wanna try this grand thing anyways long story short like six months goes by he ends up graduating he takes a job at like a i don't wanna say which place but like takes a job at like kind of like a a hot startup up that we know of and i get an email out of the blue three days ago subject line i've made an irreversible decision so another great sign is like his copywriting is good for like a twenty one year old he knows how to like frame it he goes i made an irreversible decision i quit my job yesterday even though it was a great job and they they they offer me whatever because i've decided that i wanna come work for you and make x y z happen he goes wow he goes you know i have a couple other ideas of what i might do but you're the top of the list and anyway it makes you feel good does the flattery thing says exactly what he would do he goes i have two ideas for how i would make the mill road better let me know if you're down to hear them then i'll send them over alright so he beats me like you course send the ideas send you the ideas and i just reply i go i honestly i didn't care about your ideas i just wanna hire you and now he's working with me and he's already awesome and this we're on three so i'm i could tell you this guy his name name's s juan south juan is gonna be a winner and i bet you like six months from now i'm gonna be talking about how amazing this guy is see the problem that's awesome my problem with with all this though is all three of us i get so much inbound and i'm like i don't wanna i'm not in the mood to figure out who's legit and who's not and also i don't wanna have to train someone i don't wanna have to manage someone at the moment so are you guys getting exhausted managing people are you getting worn out like having to talk to people a time and tell them what to do or give get feedback sean sean i would love to know how you do this you've kind of alluded to it a few times that you have a team helping you kinda manage channels or at least looking at opportunities and stuff how does that work because i have that same problem where people email me ideas all the time and there's nowhere for it to go there's no one to help yeah then that's okay that's my design it's like it's meant to be a bottomless pit of like no reply but then we like cherry pick interesting things and just like pull it out of that that that that well dripping wet we're like oh you know maybe we should reply to this but basically my version of of chris right your business purchase chris mine is ben and basically ben has the keys he has my email and he has my twitter and that's the two biggest forms of inbound and basically he's the wall and it's like if you can climb the ben wall then like you've made it and like ben knows what's interesting and what's not and so like and that's like one of his main things is like he likes he gets energy from that whereas i kind of like i lose energy doing it like you saying like i kind of i don't enjoy doing it whereas he's like yeah this guy sent me this thing so i checked it out and then i chatted with him i'm like dude i would never check it out or chat with them he's like yeah that's what i i like checking things out out then if it's cool then i like to chat with them and i'm like yeah you make it sound normal but like dude i fucking hate doing that and so and then he just replies basically as me to them and they sets up the call and then don't half the time i don't show up on the call just like they're like sean coming and then it's like ben's like nah it's just me go and like i it's a good job too because like because like if they're like you know offended by that or whatever it's probably not gonna work because i don't have enough time to dedicate to each individual person if you're he's if you're just trying meet me that's one thing versus if you're trying to like advance your cause your mission your project or whatever then like you'll take help from banner or anybody right like you shouldn't be like on your high horse about so to me the answer the secret answer is like basically ben and a ben knows the tight filter of like what's interesting and what's not because we are like so in sync with each right talk all the time about like but little nuggets or hooks that are interesting and if if he you find something he'll hang it on that hook sam if you never explored del your email yeah yeah i've explored it for some reason i not pounce on it like i should but i probably should do that shouldn't i i mean i missed so emails i just don't read chris and i did it about six months ago we we started using front and so our our assistant actually reads all the emails and it goes into her inbox first and then she chooses what we need to respond to so it's like oh here's a doc sign that goes to the general counsel here's a venture deal goes to the rolling fund yeah so i don't actually see any of it and it's really reduced my email by you know even though the volume the same but for me it's reduced it by seventy percent because in the end of yeah every single email you have to even archive is like mentally taxing my thing is that once after i sold the business i didn't have a biz i didn't have a business so i was like i'm not i wanna justify i couldn't justify having someone you know doing stuff i didn't wanna have like a higher burn just for personal reasons now that i do have some things brewing maybe maybe i could actually have cash flow coming in from of a business then i think yeah it's worth justifying it which is crazy because don't understand sean how you set all your stuff up because you got like it seems like a lot of different things coming in so your accounting must be horrendous i mean it must be a huge headache huge mess yeah you gotta go to the bank and find your cfo yeah but by the way that little thing you said that's so true i i always say this hire your favorite vendors and your favorite salespeople so like anytime you have an amazing account like experience an account manager or a banker like i this one woman who help you with my mortgage and i was like hey if you ever wanna like switch careers like you're amazing and like same thing with you know my trainer are different people like you know you have this like great way with people or like the guy who manages our rolling fund he's like he works at but this motherfucker handles like such a shit we'll send up we'll be like hey we're doing this deal we don't know like half the terms and it's gonna we we have to sign now and why are the money in three months is it connor yeah connor he's amazing know he's amazing i don't i don't know how he trapped all this yeah we the same thing we'll be like dude hundred k into this and then like he handles everything and i'm just like this isn't insane connor is a absolute magician i'm so funny that you have the same guy because he's he is so on top of it and i'm just like connor you are like like i need to basically it like as soon as i have enough operational shit to deal with i'm like connor the first call because this guy yeah handles the messi most disorganized thing and he's just like yep got it never makes me feel bad about it he just like solves the problem and if he needs something he tells me then i give it to him like it's so nice would you find something like ultra competent like that it's four seasons service right i don't know if you guys are kind of the you go to a four seasons and you you know you say oh like i really you say saying fuss like oh i want you know dinner blanket and at some hotels they gru and there they just say oh yes we would we would love to sir and i feel like and then they'll never complain anything and i feel like connor is one of those people and my assistant is one of those people those people are just they're they're amazing when you find one you just gotta i'll tell you one more signal somebody who thinks bigger than you especially if they aren't the one in charge of the company this is super rare it just happened south did this so i brought him in to work on the milk road n projects like we're gonna launch an n as part of milk road we're brainstorming what it could be we don't wanna just do some bullshit thing we want it to be like really great and he was like is like his first or second day he just goes you know just a thought like right now we kinda think of this as like some sub little project like a like a cool add on to the mo he's like but there's no reason this shouldn't be like as big as board api club or anything else like this could be one of the biggest best n nfc projects around i just wanna sit say that out loud because like i don't wanna limit that and and i was just like you know if you can make me feel like a little bitch then like you are my favorite employee right because i'm like oh yeah i if i'm not thinking sufficiently large enough or aggressive enough about either a timeline or a size of the prize that's the you know that's my favorite type of person to work with is somebody who pushes my thinking on like couldn't we do this faster or couldn't we do this bigger because that's normally like they normally people will just accept whatever the leader sets the frame they'll just set that as this invisible walls around how good or how big or how fast something can be and somebody who breaks those walls is like a winner dude sean how much more hyped are you around milk road than some of your other things it seems like this is the most hype do you like you it it feels good so you're thirty three it it's taken you of of thirty three years to finally find the thing where it it's like this is this is what i should be doing like the the it's you know e guy it's like what you're good at what the world wants what the world's going to pay for and like what you're passionate about right in the middle you've you've seen like you've found that whereas before you found things that made money but it was like it's kind of interesting and then you found things that you're passionate it didn't really make money now you've got you're you're in the center yeah i think that's true maybe the podcast is also a good example of that but yeah i one on that note you have this thing called five pillars of happiness what do are yeah what are the five pillars chris chris funny so chris chris has all these all these sticks and stuff but one of them one of them is spa five pillars of happiness and i is it's very simple but i think it's really it's really apt at the bay and he counts them out for you so he'll say see family every day right obviously see friends and loved ones multiple times a week be in nature once a week new and novel experiences once a month and then feel like a man or woman go with your buddies go hunting sports whatever makes you feel tough and gritty and ticks that box for your caveman brain once a quarter right and it's like kind of this very simple model i we we built this little circle of it where you can rank yourself on it but i was like this is actually like kind of a thing i i i feel like we've more people should should use this system sam does in the reverse he sees his family once a quarter and every day he does is caveman man shit you guys you're doing really i do think that that that that's it's kind of interesting sean do you do any caveman stuff yeah for sure the workout is that i play sports i'll put basketball like compete i think that's kind of like the version of that and then sometimes i'll just do like manual labor i'll just like be like okay i'm gonna fucking assemble this thing that's been sitting here like it's not the most manly thing but it's like right you it's something i don't really need to do and i'm just gonna like just put my full focus into using my hands and like trying to like make something or build something or do something that's that's more rare it's so weird like i have i have a trainer i do power lifting as well and it's so funny like you're basically paying someone to come to your house to have you simulate doing labor doing great yeah and then it it's amazing like i always feel you know my happiest in the hour after my workout or whatever and you just go oh even that that's caveman brain right you would have been building a log cabin or doing something manly and now we're so pathetic that we have to pay other men to have a simulate that as for us in our houses right but yeah and like stuff too so you boxing sam right i got is that for me bj if you ever done ji too it's like yeah wrestling they're like so primal and like such a good feeling when you're done boxing has been awesome i love like fighting i think it's it's awesome it's in a controlled environment it's badass ass and that's awesome and then i'm at this ranch now and i i have been so happy like i'm trying to figure out how to build a fence and i'm not literally gonna build a fence but like i'm like having like move stuff to you know you're doing a little bit of work to like figure out how is this gonna work or you know where we're gonna put a pool and just like shit like that i have found to be so much more rewarding than internet stuff the problem is is that internet stuff is still also awesome and makes so much more money with so little effort compared to like having to construct a pool but so it's i think sean both i feel like you're similar to me in that you're looking for shortcuts you wanna delegate everything you know everything's door dash assistance yeah chef you know all that stuff right i'm the exact same way and i did this thing where i did a i had a psychologist do a three sixty on me i heard about this one of my favorite investors this guy mon did this thing where you hired a psychologist to basically write an operating manual and say here's what you're missing in your life here's the brutal feedback your friends and family have about you here's how you need to improve and so i heard this on a how much of that cost i was driving i i i i think it was ten grand and so he spent like four hours interviewing me we did a whole bunch of testing and then he talked like my six six i think it was three friends and family members and three three people i work with and i got it back and it was absolutely one of the most brutal experiences of my entire life like our brands are not or we're not designed to know what our friends say about us and stuff but one of the key just key things he said to me is he goes you're it's almost like all of your friends have come to you and said andrew on saturday let's mow the lawn together and then afterwards we're we're gonna celebrate and we're gonna have a cold beer so we're all gonna sit in a circle and you know be all sweaty and pop papa corona or whatever and i just say nah it's cool i just got a guy on task grab it and he's gonna do that so i never get the sense of satisfaction of doing the work and i never get the garage work of doing it with anyone and and you're right you're right it is doing real labor doing no i know but it that was the feedback and i was like holy shit that's so true and sean i feel like you're probably similar yeah except as my wife telling me at all time so they go to fucking do the work instead of like hiring a man to come hang you know to like literally like hang a poster on my wall which by the way i dude done and my wife one of our biggest fights over the last couple years was i didn't like wheel the garbage out to the street because we would always be like ten o'clock at day i'd be in my boxer you know and finally i was like oh there's a private garbage service they'll take all of our recycling this is awesome my wife looked at me like i had just like you know she i didn't defend her in a physical fight like or something was like i lost all respect my wife like wouldn't have sex with me for weeks gave me it was it's not good she gave me that jada that jada smith look oh exactly yeah didn't slap anyone i just cow yeah and the that's why those did it i was like oh fuck i this is the moment this is i you can get out of the dog i'm about the trash right now but the worst pain is when you like hire a cleaning lid or something and i sear like try to like move the trash can down the thing and it's like heavy like off fuck i can't come on give gross move i god it it's all good like it's a you gotta feel that guilt fascinating it's so fascinating though to think about like we do so little labor compared to someone seventy five years ago and there's a value if you grew up in a farming family your parents would think you're pathetic if you don't grow your own vegetables right so it's like where do you end where you know what's what's the right amount of labor and what's the wrong amount because i also know people who they're wealthy and yet they spend all their time doing miserable tasks they hate you know cleaning the cat litter box taking out the garbage and i'm like hey just delegate this hire someone and they hate it you know they're fighting with their wife over it you know it's miserable so i think there's a balance dude you didn't need to spend the ten k you could have just asked your cleaning lady nobody knows you better than your cleaning lady and or you're you know a nanny or somebody like that like they cleaning lady cleaning lady doesn't speak english i actually have to i text her in spanish so she doesn't know anything at least that's what i think maybe she's actually is she knows where you leave her underwear on the floor shit like that she is she knows how long that couple sit on your desk before you just finally take it to the sink she knows everything alright bros i gotta a bounce i got someone here but you guys gonna keep talking that we can wrap it's cool shit yeah that's fun it won't be the same without you alright let let's let's wrap it up ben ben what'd you think making me come on camera here on on my sick day but great stuff of always a great episode from andrew i anticipate this is gonna be one of our top down it usually use did we awesome sweet then i said that we crossed a hundred k per episode that was like only for a can or what what's what do you know the numbers are they just like actual average like what's our actual average i don't know the actual sixty but it depends what window you're looking at it's i think most people measure it by a sixty day window yeah i think whatever thirty sixty is fine alright let me just let me just pull up the stats have you guys considered like building in public and having a graph or something or with that to do i it out it starts going down our you talk about it a lot our march numbers i tweeted out it was one point five one one point six million or whatever the number it was something like that that includes youtube though that includes only people who watch full youtube videos as opposed to just the clips if you add in the clips yesterday sean your video about lamar ball or la i don't even know anything they made fun of me all in the comments because i don't know who these people are it got four hundred thousand views and like twenty four hours or something like that four hundred what you dude do you realize what are your videos right now on youtube youtube shorts has like millions of millions of views what yeah bro dude it's got like thousands of comments of people just roasting me and a little bit of you literally it probably tens of millions of views getting fans tens of millions of views sucks does it really tens of millions of views yeah you just get bullied by like fourteen year olds if you yeah and they're all way better looking they all wear vans i i got super excited about our tiktok tiktok videos i was like oh sick a million views they're probably saying how useful and helpful this content was right can you open up the comments thing just like you know like is that nothing good in the comments for us right like you know i'm a very ugly and dumb and you're like you know i don't know i don't know that i know what they say about you just too focus on me what alright you you wanna know the numbers so so i think what you're were talking about is the other day it's for the first time we have youtube videos with we have multiple youtube videos with over two hundred thousand views which is good and these are not like the short tiktok style videos like actual videos with with a couple hundred thousand in terms of just podcast podcasts our top downloaded episode is at seventy thousand and but from what white day all time just all time but if you throw on youtube it crosses a hundred thousand so how much how much of your growth has come from doing all that tiktok stuff where you're like oh we'll give out i figured forget you're giving up money or something like that for the person who take stuff viral it's hard to say yeah yeah it it's like i i mean that definitely worked but we were doing other stuff at the same time so it's hard to say how much of that came from that oh hey when are you guys doing this summit what's the deal with that i i don't know i read you the top three top five comments on that video that has three million views at each youtube this is exact what i'm talking about alright here's comment number one this is what people say when they just read the headlines that comment has six thousand likes number two there's a guy in the nba that alone told us everything he has no clue what he's talking about k fair enough know a lot about the this guy reminds me of myself in college when i was giving a talk about a i'm about a topic the professor taught and i'd only skim reading ten minutes before the class that has two thousand likes please stop covering sports all of this information issues are the wrong or in the wrong series of events okay damn alright alright i gotta go out and talk to you all soon