From Coder to Cartel Boss - The Jeff Bezos of Organized Crime

alright let's do some topics what do you got i got i got a couple well wait i got a bunch of good stuff like let's pick one of years let let's do the satoshi and the paul the thing because they're both really interesting do you know let's do let's do which one do you wanna do first i don't know who paul i you don't know who paul is okay fucking great name though dude listen this how much more would i be worth if i was sean on the roof and right and more back what i get he's also african he's from south africa i think so ben you're nodding a little bit like you know who this is is that true yeah i know paul ru is he's kinda like who's the guy we were talking about that you knew he's kinda like if if ross had been as crazy as everyone thought but actually like ten times crazier that's paul ro paul whoa yeah yeah i i don't let me know man who's is this right so he's space alright so paul he's says big old fat disgusting guy he's like like imagine like jump the yeah imagine like have you seen south park where they're like playing video games and there's that fact guy i think computer who's like eating cheetos and like like yeah he kinda looks like that he's just a total s but he's this computer whiz yeah google he's like disgusting and it that kinda of fits the personality of of of the whole story and there's a great book that i'm reading is called mastermind it's about him and basically this guy always like kinda wanna take over the world and in around like two thousand two thousand three thousand four he started this company called rx limited which basically sold viagra ag and a couple other like schedule two drugs so like no like he was able to sell some opioids but not like the famous ones things that are considered schedule two which is just one below between schedule one and he created this company called rx limited and then like three or four years it netted him hundreds of millions of dollars in profit and the do you remember years ago when you would get an email and it said like hey we sell prescriptions click here do you remember that like years and years ago when you're in high school in grade school not really but go on let's just to say let me say yes go ahead well basically and then like maybe you remember like going like these websites where like just showed tons of drugs and like you'd get texas says like buy drugs online well basically he created this website rx limited and then eventually he started like creating so many domain names that he created his his own domain registration system and then eventually his network got so big he created its own email system because he didn't want anyone to hack into his stuff and at one point he had like two or three thousand employees working at this place mostly filipinos mostly working call centers and he had in philippines and in israel because he said the israeli guys were the hardest working were the cheapest you know the cheap the the for the cheap rate and he it was it was wild and he and he had basically hundreds of different stores selling drugs and the way it worked is he would somehow convince a doctor that he was like doing everything by the book and technically he kinda was doing everything by the book but it really quickly warp and did not but basically he had all these doctors in america in like minnesota kentucky florida like these relatively small doctors and like hey we're a telemedicine service can you fill some of the prescriptions that we're doing it's all legal and we'll just send you the the prescriptions that we need and you just sign off and we're gonna send it to a pharmacy so we would send it to a pharmacy and these local mom pop pharmacies would be like okay doctor x is just bought call in this prescription i'm gonna ship it to the patient no big deal and so both the doctors and the patient doctors and the pharmacist they all thought that they were mostly following the law they're like this is kinda weird that i'm now shipping out i'm like a mom pop pharmacist and i'm shipping out like two thousand orders a week like that's weird but i have no reason to believe this is illegal and eventually it did become highly illegal where like he it was just like you you didn't need to see any doctor to get any these prescriptions and at one point he was selling like eighty percent of all online drugs in america it was something large bet ben am i missing anything and throughout doing this this is where things get even crazier so like this story in itself is already interesting literally it made i believe four hundred million dollars in profit in four years one employee went to his apartment in manila in the philippines and he said that he saw a hundred million dollars in cash in the house and he this guy like i didn't want the irs to see anything so he would just transfer it into gold because this was before bitcoin was really around he lived to the philippines he was an african guy so i believe he was born in like cambodia and then moved to south africa and then moved to the philippines or maybe he was like zimbabwe something like that but this guy had this like grand thinking where he would thought that he like he's like i owe it to the world to run the world very grand thinking and so he hires these ex israeli guys to run the call centers eventually he hires these ex israeli army guys to be his bodyguard guards and in doing that he starts learning a little bit about like arms dealing and so eventually he buys thousands of acres of land in zimbabwe and somalia and he was like i'm gonna raid an african nation and i'm gonna set up like a country and i'm gonna have my own i'm gonna be the leader of of of small african nation and hopefully eventually a much larger nation like some crazy shit and it it expands to the point where he's now an arms dealer so he's selling guns to different parts of africa he gets in trouble for selling missiles to iran like he this guy gets into some crazy stuff he's killing people along the way he makes relationships with the columbia drug lords and trades drugs pills for cocaine and he starts selling a hundred millions of dollars worth of cocaine that and he was doing all of it almost almost all of it behind a computer and eventually he gets caught now he's got he recently in like three or four years ago was sentenced to twenty five years in prison and that doesn't include what he's convicted for in the philippines so after he gets out if he gets he's gonna go straight to philippines in the us or he he's in the us but because he's like basically a drug lord they won't say where he is and so you could own online you can barely find any pictures of him other than one picture of his mug shot and that's the only pictures that you the one where looks like really big that's his mugs shot that's the only picture that i've really seen of him recently and the guy it it it's just this is it's one of the craziest books i've ever read and what i i start talking to you about sit satoshi because a lot of people think they're like well we don't i don't i don't really there's not a ton of evidence those that he invented bitcoin but he was talking about like creating a digital currency early on when he was arrested satoshi quit blogging and you could read a lot of this guy's emails and that's really interesting and that's kinda how i got the other topic of satoshi where you can like read all his old blog post but this guy it's incredibly fascinating and he would've have been an awesome business person had it not been for you know going the wrong route but it's a crazy book what was in the emails you just see him commenting with people so he was actually like a really good writer for a little while and he even this guy is so interesting he wrote guest post i believe for the washington post under a pseudo talking about like the future of money and like all these weird economic stuff but he he was somewhat el and but in person he was b he was an asshole he was disgusting he was just would go to mcdonald's and he wouldn't even talk to his employees he would kinda tell to f off he wasn't very pleasant to be around and but in emails he wrote pretty pretty nicely actually what do you gonna say ben they found five hundred pounds of cocaine on his yacht when it crashed which was worth like a hundred million dollars and he also owned a logging business in somalia at one point he was like i'm gonna create a business that will fend off so basically all the western countries driving through somalia if they want the pirates not to talk to them i'm gonna be the go between and i'm gonna get money from them and i'm gonna pay the pirates off and take a little bit of profit he owned he owned that business he also was in the mining this guy did like at one point the da the district attorney of i believe new york said we think this is the most dangerous and powerful man in the world and all of it was done on computer and he he his his he was very early in all this like he's very kinda in the same ballpark as a lot of the crypto guys and like some of those his ideas even though he was a criminal were like totally on point with the bitcoin stuff so it's super fascinating yeah there there's an article that says how the case for why he might be satoshi i haven't read yet but i when you're talking i just pulled it up you say he did it all behind a computer but and my research on this is old i i i was looking at the story like a year ago but didn't don't don't i remember a story about him like throwing someone off his yacht and having people shoot them in the water or something like that yeah but in that particular story he wasn't there but he did kill a lot of people think that he did kill one so throughout the sean he had his he had that are now arrested and they like kinda spilling the beans he had that would kill people and there are a few occasions where they think he actually is the one who fired the bullet so he and he did travel so he would go to africa he would go here but he the guy had like three thousand employees and most of the employees had no idea who he was and even there'd be times where he'd be managing so basically he had two israeli brothers running this call center in israel with like three hundred employees and they had never met paul and paul would talk to them via email you know as employees and it's kinda like interesting because like anonymous work is something we've talked about but that's pretty much how it was so some of his employees had no idea who he was so in a sense it wasn't all behind a computer but a lot of it was behind a computer this this article i pulled up about it it says he's the jeff bezos of of organized crime and it says he's the he's the digital el chap because he was moving so much weight he was he was given up for adoption by his birth parents that rejection haunted him and then it says he was you know transformed us himself to a programming genius who developed encryption software like e four in the nineties he found an rx limited which was the black market for pharmaceuticals he was raking in two fifty million dollars a year selling drugs weapons and murder for hire on the dark web yeah well the i think that act the dark web thing is actually confusing because a lot of the stuff that he was doing was before tore was even around so a lot of stuff he would do it wasn't even on the dark web and like this whole thing about spamming email he was actually one of the origin of that and so he somehow hacked into a farm a pharmaceutical company and stole something like hundreds of millions of email addresses and he would spam these guys like crazy the reason why he bought all these domain names is a domain would get banned then he would switch a domain so it was a incredibly complex what he did and he before he turned to the dark side he founded a or he built like a small open source product that helped encrypt things and it eventually turned this thing called true crib which i actually think that thing is big but so like the guy was pretty genius he he was amazing it says his first murder was hey took his head of security he said hey kona to my house in the philippines and dig a hole i'm gonna bury a safe filled with millions of dollars and then the guy dug the hole and then he shot him the machine gun right after that that was the first his first taste of murder and then there's another there's another story where they they took a guy out into the ocean and they go ready let's have a talk on our yacht and they throw the guy in the ocean and they drive away so he gets he freaks out and then he comes back and he shoots all next to the guy and and he goes oh no just so you know i didn't miss i'm just trying to keep the sharks away because i wanna talk to you and i need to know are you stealing for me and if you tell me quickly i'll kill you now if you don't tell me i'm just gonna shoot you in your leg and i'm gonna drive off and so like you the guy was really hardcore yeah he makes you know whatever the wolf of wall street look like a a small puppy this guy guy's insane okay wow never heard of this i either how'd you hear about it how'd you how'd you find out it so when i i tweeted out that i love like crime books and i i think i i had just finished i forget what i just finished but someone suggested this book called mastermind buying and it's by this journalist that worked at wired magazine and i've been reading this book and it's freaking crazy and even though this guy what he did was wrong it does like actually inspire me to like live a more adventurous life well i'm like reading this and i'm like why i'm the same way i'm like why am i so fascinated by this like this is why i don't like watching waffle wall street i'm like why does this excite me so much like i i'm beginning to normalize this in my head and i think this is okay i can't watch this anymore but i do think that there is a thing where like i can i need to have a little bit more adventure you you know you could use it for good but you know i'd read it and i'm like intoxicated by it do you that way yeah i think that's why people love movies about you know prison you know prison breaks or they love it about bite bank heist and like why people play at you know video games that have violence and them it's like there's definitely like a part of us that you know this stuff appeals to and like you know if you can get that outlet by just reading the book or watching the movie you're playing a video game like good because you know you didn't trade didn't translate in that that's kind of deep rooted desire for like you know either adventure thrill power you know you know whatever it is doesn't have to like spill into your your normal life then yeah and it it it like inspires me a little bit in the sense of like man living life on the edge it's crazy i wanna go to prison but you should just add that to your bio you got top inspiration pablo basketball escobar palm we're russell alright yeah so but in your heroes and one of the reasons why it's interesting is the the the cool thing about criminals online is that you can read their correspondence so like they got they when they arrested them he had his computer open and so they were able to like see a bunch of stuff and that's i really love that this era about criminals and how you can like see it happening and that got me interested in the satoshi posts so basically if you go to like if you just google like satoshi you know the guys created a bitcoin if you go to satoshi blog posts you can i i was reading all his blog posts and the what what what i found to be really fun is you go to his first blog post where he talks about introducing bitcoin and you can go to the the form is still up and you i i spent about an hour looking at all the people commenting on it and googling all of them and seeing what they're doing and what they're up to and you could see them like reply like pay satoshi you know this is actually a really good idea i've been tinkering with this i went ahead and purchased five hundred bitcoins just to try it out you know what i mean it it's really fascinating the first few comments i think weren't like i think if i remember correctly the original comments like it's not like this thread blew up and people were instantly like genius you know this is a breakthrough this of genius idea right like that's not what no it was like this is cute right and so like like literally the first comment so so so you there's you know seth he says great stuff this is the first real innovation so this i recognize recognized it for what it is this is the first real innovation in money since the bank of an england sergeant issue promissory notes for gold and the which became banknote notes i believe in open search currency has great potential a bit like google has become the default search engine for many of us and then like then there's some people who are like and have questions about how it works and then there's like how finn who i think how fin got the first transaction like satoshi sent it to him and i think he had the most questions about it which is why some people think how fitting was satoshi na and i think he was also the first one to like write out the like the total addressable market for it i remember reading that one time where he's like well if this got adopted like you know each one of these coins is gonna be worth like over a million dollars right and he like broke down why which is like you know to hard even discussing now today that sounds weird imagine two thousand nine you're on a forum and you know somebody posts this thing about how they're creating you know the new world money and you're like well you know that means this little the random thing that i can go mind on my computer you could just send me five thousand of these right now like yeah that each one of those could be worth a million dollars and to me that was really impressive the people who saw it for what it is which is like a you know a true innovation something that's great something that could catch on i'm pretty blown away by that me too i think it's amazing when i read it i i feel inspired and i think that's why i got obsessed a little bit with paul la is like just these people who just have the self belief and vision even if it's like a horrible vision and go out and like do it it's and they're in the depths of the internet it's really interesting in this and and i've been reading all of the like satoshi forum posts they're just seeing these just like you can click and see these guys profiles like they're wearing fedora and like crocodile dudley hats like they're the nerd the nerdy the nerd the guys who like i would dismiss and be like oh what are you like okay nerd like you're you're smart but like you're just outlandish i can't believe anything that you're doing you read this and they're incredibly thoughtful and they like are taking it seriously right off the bat and i admire that and it's a really really fun thing to read yeah i think it's on the you know who i think it was like a forum it it was called the p foundation or something like that was the the original forum that this was on it was like a ming forum or something like that and so you know the people who hang out in these types of forum right they're obviously like pretty hardcore either into peer to peer into crypto into they these different subjects and so you know hanging out at the fringes hanging out i gave a talk recently for a bunch of people in the midwest they like zoom me in and they were like we just want you to talk to our group and one of them asked they go you know you said something about like surrounding yourself with you know like interested people how do you do that like what do you actually do to do that and i basically told him i go i'm a pretty like normal person like i like catchy songs by katy perry right i don't have like great music dates i like if something's in the top four it like go pretty good you know like i i not like i have this like this nose for the next big thing but there are people who who have that that's their superpower and so i used to make fun of those people because every time they would do something weird would be like weird and then i'd point out how weird it is and i'm kinda laugh at it and then didn't really care because they weren't trying to be cool with anyways like i remember my in college the guy who lived next door to me it's got he was i walked in and he's like playing a video against like star after or something like that and think i turned to talk to me and the game kept going and i was like are you even playing like he just he just this is a computer and he was like he's was yeah just he's like no i'm watching the match from last night in korea i'm like what you watching somebody else play video games is back in you know what's must've been two thousand and six or something like that he's like yeah i'm much a recording of this game this max that happened in the korean server and i'm like dude say five more lame things and like yeah than that like i talking you a hundred dollars if we could say six tell me you're virgin without telling me you're virgin exactly i was like oh okay like never coming in this room again and then later like you know fast forward ten years or whatever sell sell our our company gets acquired by twitch and all of a sudden my titles like director of esports or something like that and he calls me he's like you motherfucker and he's like oh mister esports now and i was just like yeah dude it's a big thing you know yeah you you were on top of it and like i sort of you know it embarrassed because like it was so true i was making fun of that behavior then sure enough that becomes like such a you know like a billion it was a multi billion dollar i was watching other poo play video games and so i i've kinda learned the hard way many times of making my making a fool lot of myself on that or like now when i hear something weird i'm just immediately to like let me pull up a chair so tell me like why do you do this do other people do this how often you do do you do this like and the weirder it is the more i wanna lean into that phenomenon because i know like it's just a matter of time until i discover that this is a like a totally normal behavior it's like oh you only drink soy for all your meals like oh interesting are there is there a community people who do this yeah we're called you know whatever bio there's a subreddit with like tens of thousands of us like oh interesting you know you could start to see that the you know the future is is already here it's just not everywhere and like how do you how do you get closer to the future you just find people who already live in the future do weird stuff and then you don't judge them in fact you just like complete have the opposite reaction i used to have and this exercise of reading the old blog posts and all the comment is i think you just kinda put it in a little more elegant el way but that's exactly what's happening is like you're seeing like i'm trying to pattern recognition is kind of a stupid buzz word but like you're trying to like see like well i know for sure that a this sounds silly at first and b it worked so like what does this like pattern of like people just dismissing and like coming up with like like and how do i not make that same mistake the guy that you talked about what was the form called a peep peep patient yeah i i so i on the very bottom of the forum it says like about and you could like read who the owner is and he just a professor in berlin or something like he's just a guy and it's pretty fascinating i'm like man like all these people were it's it's it's like you know they they they this kind of weird to say but they're like they they were around when jesus was around like you know like they like stalled this like thing that like potentially changes want the next thousand years over the next five hundred years of history and they like saw it and i think that's really fascinating so dude i put this in the mil road i don't know if you saw this thing about like so peter so the big bitcoin conference just happened in miami app yeah that was a really that was really good on friday you did that right yeah i did that one on friday that was that was that rated one yeah that killed it that was so good but did you i don't know if you saw the clip i think i linked to the clip in there of so peter t goes he gives us talk at the bitcoin conference in twenty twenty two just happened and he it the before he comes out they played on the on the big screen this video that i had seen before i think i even talked about on here once but there's this video i i've watched a ton of old peter t video so a video of him giving a talk in nineteen ninety nine and he's talking about the idea of a currency not owned by by the government and basically it's like this two minute clip but peter t basically describing bitcoin without saying the word bitcoin and he didn't know how it would work but he's like you know the world needs a currency that's not controlled by you know the central banks of different countries blah blah blah and i think paypal originally that was their vision was to create they used to have shirts that said one currency to rule them all or something like that it was like this original idea of paypal was to create one global virtual currency and they shifted away from that later like and he he at this talk he goes yeah we went to somebody that was more practical and it kinda worked but like it was less ambitious and like you could tell you can regretted it which is like we before we wanted to create our own financial system and then like we settled really hard and we settled on auto paypal it's a payments network that like it works with your existing bank with the existing dollar currency and with your to send to somebody else's existing bank so we're just like a funnel to like funnel the money through and like yeah that was cool but like man this other thing was the big idea and bitcoin kinda proves that that was the big idea you know later on but him giving that talk in nineteen ninety nine to me is so crazy like that's one of the greatest like calls i've ever seen of just calling it with what's gonna happen and why it's gonna happen and in that talk he's like he's like you know the this currency will live on your cell phone outside of a bank you know smartphones are gonna be a thing i know you think about it it's like nineteen ninety nine man iphone came out in two thousand seven so he's predicting smartphone he's like we're already seeing the adoption of smartphones in finland and he man he gave a five year term and you're like he it was ten but he got it right yeah he's like ability he's like there will be a billion smartphone devices in the next five years it took ten years but like a billion device like there was never a there was never a billion user product like there weren't a billion people who had computers ever there weren't a billion people i don't even think that use televisions but i think the cell phone was the first thing where it was like a smartphone was like the first thing where a billion people had this product so of if you launch an app that works your addressable market is a billion people who could download your app like right immediately like it's kind of an overlooked fact about why mobile was so big it's just like well there wasn't ever a billion people who could have used your product before this like their restaurant could never serve a billion people your store could never serve a billion people like mcdonald's couldn't even serve a billion people no matter how many locations they opened like the cell phone was the really the first thing that was able to do that you know that quickly and and so he's you know when he was talking about like smartphone adoption is rising in finland i'm like who even pays attention to what's going on in finland dude like if i asked him right if i said point to finland on a map could do you think he can point to finland on a map right now like if me neither either and something like finland denmark and like holland and sweden are all the same thing yes like i i don't know dude it's like that's where we include you're nice i get it like it's and so like i thought about i'm like oh no wonder the people who were hanging out with peter till went on to do like sweet pretty hold on what hey m sorry some r my bad there's some like random guy like knocking on my window art sorry go ahead so i'll say that you know the it's no wonder that people hanging out with peter teal ended up going on to do amazing things right like if you've ever heard of the paypal mafia it's like yeah like people who worked at paypal went on to create youtube and linkedin and tesla and spacex and yelp and affirm and like i think there's like over ten billion dollar companies that came out of the paypal mafia and like k like one of the best nonprofit came out of that and so it's like dude why is that because you're hanging out with a bunch of people who are already thinking about the future and living in the future they're all weird nerds and i remember the the one of the founders of paypal max left and he had this thing where he's like he was interviewing somebody and the guy started like talking about how like he's like yeah i to play pick up hoops he's like we're not hiring this guy he's like why he oh my god he's like he's like no no great program i know please pick up basketball you saw dude that's what we said about the guys who were doing ico is we're like dude if your teeth are really white and you got abs and if you have a ferrari and if your last name is also a first name that's four out of four you out like like if your last name is british share or john like you're out like no saint john's exactly and so you know these things like i mean you get cancel today for me like i'm not gonna hire someone who plays pick hoops four but like and and i think they even sent something back then they go your goal as a startup is to basically build a cult and they're like the more cult like you can make your company the better and like that's not popular i think they've all they don't say that stuff in public anymore because now they're like you know bigger public figures but like i think that startup is actually fantastic startup advice now the cult doesn't need to be all people the same race or gender or anything like that it's like people who are all believe like religiously in the mission and then people who kinda boat behave in a way that's it's like they're willing to work way harder or sleep in the office like you know they're they're willing to go to bat for this thing because you know they're like members of a cult they have lost them their own personal identity to the greater identity of the group that is like a pretty hard force to bet against and beat dude this gets me inspired how how do you think this was actually a a third topic i gonna ask you how do you think guys like peter t who i i don't know his background but i think it was pretty modest how do people like him how are they write so often or i mean i do they just make a ton of guesses and they're only read a couple times but i i don't understand like that idea of big i think i think big and then i like talk to or listen to him i'm like oh i'm like i'm i'm nobody yeah do you when you hear him talk it's like when you're in a plane that takes off and all of a sudden the houses start to look like little toys and the people start to look like amp the cars look like you know a little flex it's like that's all that's how my brain feels when i hear peter teal taco i'm like oh i am a small simple tin you know i'm a single cell organism compared to this guy in terms of just like whip where my brain goes how how much conviction i have around my own original thoughts because like that's his thing right like he's all about being a contra and you know i think jeff bezos said this about peter till he goes that's the thing about contra it's they're usually wrong you know and somebody else said like know peter's constantly predicting sort of like the end of the world in the market crash and like you just remember it at the two times he was right in the twenty years and like the four times he was wrong it just seemed like he was a little bit late on his prediction and so so i think there's definitely something to like you know being wrong a bunch but it's like when you're it's more like when you're right you're right in a major major way and i think he was right of my paypal in a major way i think he was right about facebook in a major way right he was the first investor facebook he bought a five hundred about a ten percent stake in facebook for five hundred grand alright so like that was the best investment of the decade i think you know like at at that time and so you know he was right in a major way about that you know the last time he kinda went on tour he was right about two very country and things one was trump where all of a sudden like he was the only guy in silicon valley that was like publicly supporting trump went spoke at the at the convention was like we need donald trump to be president and at the time was sort of like donald trump was the under underdog he was not supposed to win and like peter picked that horse pretty early like that's that was kind of impressive and like also he gets off on being country and you could tell and then the the the other one that he was right about was when he created the teal fellowship so he basically went on which was he had which was laughable at first and he had he had this talk where he goes and he goes university you know college education is a bubble it's the greatest bubble since the housing crisis this is right after the the housing bubble one popped he's like the next bubble is college education and people like who goes against education like go ask a hundred out of a hundred politicians parents anybody who's not pro education and like he was the first guy to be like college education is a complete bubble and he explained why it was a bubble that like you know people go for basically this like certificate this he goes it's he goes it's an insurance product partially he goes you know it's an insurance for you know parents buy for their kids so that they don't fall through the cracks of society he said it's like a us a certification product you know you don't go there to learn you go there to get your certificate and so he's he's was calling out college and then he created the peel fellowship which was kind of a genius move because he put up i think at the beginning two million dollars but that two million dollars was like two hundred million dollars of free publicity for himself because he he made it bold where he's like not just like here's an alternative to college for people who don't wanna go he's like like is it was he came out he goes i will pay you a hundred thousand dollars to drop out of college and it's like oh shit you know like keep this mad away from my children like you know it was like a seem like a not good thing to do and then he explained why he he's like college just is you know a complete bubble but then how do you we get his money back from that again i think he invested in the projects i'm not sure well for example ethereum came out of that which is a three hundred billion dollar product which kind of ironic it because he doesn't he never claims victor victory on it and in fact at the bitcoin conference he kinda shit on ethereum which is bit weird so you know i i don't know why he's i i i would think he'd be taking a victory lap because like metallic being a a teal fellow was like the total validation of the the teal fellowship but i think fig owner dot com you know owner dot com see that company know about it yeah he's a he's one of those guys i and and about two or three more i've invested in about three of them maybe yeah yeah i heard kinda mixed things about the product the the program itself but like there's no doubt like good stuff came of it like if if just fig came out of it the program was like a win you know like that's a ten billion dollars came out of it yeah damn dude and so you know and there's many others this is a bunch of other winners that have come out of it too but like so so this guy like been you know contra and write many many times it's very impressive to me it's more impressive to me than people like obviously he's very successful so it's not even like that or success but if you just showed me one person who's very successful and then the another person who is like an original thinker who's right when they go against the grain damn i'm more i have a lot more respect in admiration for the person who was when it gets a grain and had an original thought that was right yeah and it it's inspiring i am i was reading today and it said that this is like kind of a weird a weird tangent but jared kushner or you know jared kushner yeah so so who is he he's he's married to to the trevor brother's married to the trump so there's jared to josh josh is the younger one i think he's like thirty five he's married to a model and he runs thrive which is a vc thing that's like immensely successful his brother is jared who i forget his title in the white house but he was like trump's right hand man and he's married pure vodka right yeah and like a lot of people think he's evil he probably is a little bit he kinda has like a skeleton vibe to him like a skeleton the the villain and hem man or whatever it was so he's like kinda has like a a vibe to him but he just announced that like a few months after leaving the white house he he he founded a three billion dollar private equity fund and like regardless you put politics aside like it crazy that that's just like your thing like you you added that you you ended what like like when i end a job i'd take like a a lot of people take like a three week vacation and then they go start another job that's like twenty percent higher in salary and a little bit better title and like he just like was like oh you know i'm like i've got some free time now i'm gonna like you know beep up boop just do this thing it's a three billion dollar fund and like i find that to be what it's the same thing of like i feel like an aunt and you are not that you know what i mean yeah exactly i i know exactly wish me it does beg the question of like you know why why do i not go bigger and also you know is there a reason that i don't go bigger like is there a reason sam that you don't go create a three billion dollar private equity fund there's there's two reasons the first is fear so like it is scary to do that to like raise up like for to raise outside failure yeah to raise outside money and fuck it up that's bad but number two i do think that there is i don't know if peter till has this but elon musk for sure has this did you read that article and the new yorker or new york times where he describes his life he's like basically he was talking to the interviewer and he was starting to cry in the interview and he's like he's like he don't wanna be me yeah he basically said he's like i missed my brother's wedding i or he was like i was about to miss it by i flew at the last minute i saw it immediately got on the plane he was like there was like a time a few weeks ago where for five days i didn't leave the factory i didn't see the sunshine i don't see my children i had a birthday but no friends came and said happy birthday to me because i was running around the factory and like i'm lonely and i'm pretty sad to be honest and frankly death i look forward to it as a way of relief that's like what he's said he said on that yes and right like he want the the whole death they might have broke yeah take it nap try it advice little brother to another well and it's like so i think there's one aspect where it's like well i don't wanna like be this like the slave to this computer in the machine like f that and i wanna live life but i do think that they're and i i i haven't formulated this entire this thought entirely i do think there's a world where you can go big and have some work like bounce so actually so do you think that's true yeah of course and of course it's true you just gotta decide your terms right like and as soon as you decide those terms watch you'll figure out a way to make it happen or you'll find people who make it happen i i am so anti there's one way to win or there's even one definition of winning like doesn't if i if i could just be more the anti one thing that's the thing i'd be most anti because i used to fall in a trip i see somebody doing something one way or i hear advice that makes sense and then i'd kinda like and this like later in life i found the counter factual it's like wait but this guy has do that wait this this this that lady did both right like so hold on if both is an option then i'm taking both every day of the week it's only when i accept that both is not an option i fall into this of misery around around picking one or the other right of like lifestyle and and and like you know ambition so so i definitely think you do both i play this game though so i have two games that i play about any project that i'm doing this is kind of like my i kind of exec coach myself and i really always ask two questions i go i go for the first question is if and i asked this other founders too which is if i was to meet up with you you know if we hung out twelve months from now we're grab a beer and i'm like hey what happened with that thing man what happened with trends that was such cool idea like what went wrong what do you think is the most likely thing you're gonna say at that moment where were like a dude here's what you know here's where we've we messed up or here's what was we turned out here's what we thought that we turned out we were turns out was wrong so it helps you identify the risky is part of your business either the risky assumption you're making the thing you need to go validate or the risky path that you're going on where you're cutting off other options so you're not you know you're really leaving yourself you know one move away from failure so i always ask that question and the way i don't know why like if you just ask somebody straight up like what's the biggest risk in your business they answer it one way it's like but this other way with i think people were can relate to which it's is like if i see a year from now we're just grabbing a beer hanging out it's like i just let's just presume already it's gone wrong what was the cause of death you know like what what do you think was the reason that so that's one the second one the game we played yesterday with the milk road it was it's called the the why the fuck aren't you game and it's basically it's like like either why the fuck are you or aren't you which is like what part if i was just an objective person looking at what we're doing would i say why the fuck are you guys doing this like why aren't you hiring somebody to do that it's taking you five hours a day and like you should totally you could could you not find somebody to do that part or like why aren't you like why aren't you at this bitcoin conference like aren't you build crypto product shouldn't you be at this event like there's just like this series of like why are you or why aren't you and it's like why the f it which kind of dis distilled it down to like what's the obvious good idea or bad idea like good idea we're not doing or bad idea that we are doing that i would criticize about ourselves and we both came up with a list of like three things and it became like oh we just correct those now rather like so then what your answer why aren't you going bigger assuming that you're not going big which it's not a fair a fair assumption but for the sake of the discussion yeah so i i wouldn't say why mind i not going bigger like jared kushner question you mean or the questions i was asking just now the jared kushner question because i wanna have you know enough meaning i wanna have a i wanna be able to know what is enough and i want my vision of success to be bigger than just what's going on in my business so it's like to me if you said paint a picture of what winning looks like it's not just a number in an account right or a number in my sales dashboard it's like like i i talk about this all time it's it's perfect tuesday it's like my normal day is perfect for what i want and that includes like just like right after this i'm gonna go work out with my trainer in my home gym like that's a part of my perfect tuesday and if my business then requires me to not have time to do that and i'm like getting fat whatever or it doesn't provide me enough money to be able to afford that again it's not winning right it's like you know being able to like take my daughter to swim class like things like that like those are part of what winning looks like to me and so i'm just not gonna like deviate from that i'm only gonna the only thing i question is not why don't i go bigger it's is this picture the picture i really want or is this outdated and do i need to update it you know and like that's the thing i find myself be like oh man i haven't updated this picture in a while or there's just like a gap over here where i don't know what i want what would it feel like to know what i want okay let what let me get let me figure that out ben wilson tweeted out it's a power to know what you really want right ben and and that what was that the tweet yeah i i what how did you see her hear that made you tweet that so what i saw is that i i've had a bunch of people reaching out to me recently and the people who are like hey i'd love to connect i get so annoyed with i'm like you just dump something on my plate for me to like figure out which i just don't wanna do whereas the people who are like hey i really love what you do i'm am also a podcast my podcast is this size i wanna get it to this size i i'm am having trouble in these two issue areas and i'd love to talk to you about it i'm like great you know exactly what you want i will i will gladly give you that and just just it applies almost everywhere in life like the guy who comes up to you and he's like hey do you any spare change no i don't have any spare change hey i need two dollars and fifty cents to get a ride home on the bus do you have two dollars and fifty cents alright i guess i two dollars and fifty cents like it's a superpower in every way so so so i like that you said that there's a a tweet that my cousin put out yesterday my cousin he's on twitter ro dude who sure great guy according to twitter he's killing it and i don't would talk to him it forever but like his say it's looking like he's killing it i don't know if i haven't caught up at all i don't i'm not disrespect him at all i'm saying like his like his updates are amazing he just bought like twenty thousand square feet or something like he's on top of the game yeah and actually he did a good job of figuring out what he wants you just called out your cousin you should take that back what i love my because now he's great but i i actually met that as a compliment there's this there's a skilled especially in his blind of business which is real estate there's a skill to putting forward your like putting your either your brain on brain forward like sharing ideas like he put out a thing like how i do diligence on properties there's like a great checklist it's like oh he's putting out great on point information it makes me trust you makes me think this guy knows what he's talking about or if it's like like our friend nick cooper does this too it's like he'll send us a picture of him smoking a s cigar you know playing golf at you know one pm it's like wow this guy must be killed it like you don't you don't get to go out and smoke a cigar and play golf you know one pm regularly unless you're doing really well it makes me more likely to invest in the storage company that i know that he's doing well in life like some people take it as an anti signal like why isn't he working hard to me i'm like no if you're if you're able to like do well in life that means you're doing something right and what your cousin tweet trust so he tweeted us on that he goes i'm looking for like a car like a new suv is like kind of a general vague thing that's what he he and he then he like defined it right afterwards so specifically he goes the you know the the user experience of a tesla the size of an es the it goes with enough room for three car seats in a pair of golf clubs and i was like first of all isn't it just a more fun way to look for a car like just to kind of imagine really what you want and like sink into the vivid of like just having it and not like worrying about the world tesla doesn't make a big car like i said no fuck that i'm not i'm not grounded in reality i'm leaving over here in my reality of what i want he's only he's got one kid i'm like you know three cars seats he's da he's planning ahead like that's good and and i just thought it was a great example of like specificity so so to me a lot of people are vague in general when they should really be being specific and in then the opposite is also true sometimes people are like man i don't know what i want specifically and they get tied up and a i'm knot because of that and my trainer had a great framework for he goes you gotta know when to be general and when to be specific he goes if you like sometimes you will tell you you need be more specific with what you want that means like the type of description my cousin gave about like you know the lifestyle but that that what he described as a car is not just a car it's a lifestyle and and then the second thing is like when do you be would do you be general so so my trainer i was like well what if i don't know what i want right like if he said what you know what's your body goal is his personal trainer i'd be like well i don't really have a picture like i don't if i wanna like i could say oh just wanna have like a twelve pack but i don't even know if that's true right i'm like i don't know exactly what i want exactly cool just imagine satisfaction you he goes just just first get to a place of feeling satisfied about it or you don't str you're not stressed about it anymore he goes he goes you know relief is a very powerful satisfaction is a powerful emotion he goes most people feel relief one time a day and it's when they poop he goes and now people bring their phone in they're not even paying attention they miss it they miss out on the one moment of relief they were gonna have that day you goes so i get good at feeling relief i wanna practice feeling relieved and satisfied because once you get good at feeling relief and satisfied you know what things you want you're you're faster to figure out what things you want that will lead back to that emotion and like you're just better at at being satisfied from a meal or a workout or whatever it is these daily things here your life he goes let's he goes look and so we made a a deal it's like i'm i'm gonna be relieved more times than i pooped today and it's like that's the goal that's the first area the software trainer yeah what a wanna dude by the way to talk about the real what your cousins doing on real estate i've talked to a bunch of these real estate guys so and i'm friends with a lot of them keith was chris fort is that same us four yeah i think so nick cooper moses k your cousins getting in there the strip mall guy so there's like ten of them that are like really popular maybe twenty and i see the returns they're really good and the fees that they charge are crazy high or but like you know who cares that i i'm in mix uber saying it's a a huge fee but like i i'm getting a good returns so i don't care it this is one of the coolest things that's happening on twitter right now is these real estate people are just crushing it all through twitter it's pretty amazing i think someone will share that they bring in like tens of millions of dollars of investor money just off of people who are like i'm a fan of or twitter yes which is like that means if you're in real estate like do what my cousins do do what these you guys are doing like up your twitter game because it is gonna lead to more deals and it's gonna lead to more investors in your fund that you don't have to go knock on doors for it's way easier to just tweet out stuff than it is to go like do one hour calls and seminars webinars and in person meetups trying to like sc for a buck well i have no idea how big nick cooper this is nick cooper from sweaty startup i have no idea how big his portfolio is but i wouldn't actually be surprised if it was over nine figures and i bet you if it is most of it came via twitter yeah yeah i i i don't i don't know if that's i don't know exactly but i agree with where you're where you're headed there and also that that's also the one reason i haven't invested in a lot of these guys is because the fee structure like which might be to my detriment but like one thing i don't fundamentally like about real estate fees is that they all make this like two to three percent like acquisition fee yeah which like you know you buy like a fifty million dollar thing and it's like so you just bank a million dollars in your pocket just for buying the thing which leads you to an incentive which is go buy shit instead of being like really discerning between like a great property and a good property it's like just go accumulate and like i think nick has a little bit of a different strategy because he's got like a kind of like a template now of like he buys the some words thing he cuts out a bunch of the labor he adds it these automations and so he like has a playbook of how to add value that i think not every investor says they have i don't think they really have it i think nick actually does a great job of that but like in general i would say one reason i've shi ways because i dislike this this this incentive mismatch where like you're you're incentivized to take my money and go buy something because you get money today that's guaranteed that doesn't it does not linked to your returns it's only linked to your returns over a long period of time and by then you've already bank these acquisition fees fifteen times over by the time we figure out if these were good deals or not and i have no idea if they're killing it because they skilled although many of the all the people had named i i've talked you they see pure skill but i'm a novice but also they just happen to be in the game like starting six years ago and we're going to like the greatest like boom real estate yeah so like of course they're killing it but the numbers are i mean i i'm investor of nick i see the returns i'm like yeah dude i'll you more of but i didn't know the way if i was thinking i would i do exactly what he's doing i charge the highest fees i can and be like you're still getting on great return correct alright fantastic if you can go beat that return somewhere else i invite you to do it which is like you know he he's not as friend about that but like that's what i would do exactly what he's do i don't knock him for that i think that's a it's what i would do if i was in that position where i know i could generate great returns but like on my side i just i hesitate as an investor and that sort of thing but maybe that's my detriment do do you wanna do more topics or do you wanna save yours for wednesday let's do let's do a couple ideas alright i think people people like ideas if you made it to the end of the episode congratulations alright so let me pitch you two ideas real quick one is called on i'm calling copy my trip okay so i'm booking a vacation right now taking the family on vacation brandon yeah i great man thank came up with it myself yeah even the business idea just with the idea of a family vacation so so i'm like i'm like googling i'm like okay unless i wanna go to hawaii for example i'm like i i'm wanna gonna lie alright which island oh fuck no okay which resort oh god here we go i gotta figure out which resort and like it matters like it's gonna change my experience i got the wrong place to the right place but like and then i'm and then all the details in between like okay so if i take my kids what do i rent a car do i get car seats do i take the shuttle do we go on this activity is that age appropriate and so what i want is by wife follows all these influencers on instagram they're like mommy influencers and when they buy something she's like that's a good thing i'm gonna buy that thing too and like because she's like look we have the same taste and like these people they're not like they the kind of her promoting things that they that are like they have good track record like so she's like bought a couple of the things that look good and they paid off so she's like now is more trusting them i don't get why they can't or maybe they do this i don't know but like i don't get why they're not just saying copy my trip you wanna go to disneyland literally click this and like here's the like full itinerary of like we fly into this airport we take this transportation this hotel because it's great for families for these reasons we buy this thing this thing whatever and like i just get their whole trip that i can copy and that they have basically like a a tiktok or like instagram story version that i could just browse it to be like oh yeah this looks fun i wanna do this like what i went on ex ex and i'm like this is awful experience overwhelming here's an overwhelming list of a hundred options ranked in five different ways that i clicked the fuck thing i don't know if the reviews are real or not i'm looking at the photos they don't have all the photo it's like a it's a static photo from like a fucking an airplane above the resort it's like dude i just wanna see like someone walk into the room and be like oh this is really nice the bed good the you know there's space over here and like oh this is cool they give you breakfast every morning like check this out you know like like a instagram story right so i just think that there should be an a thing called copy my trip that anyone could do it'll create a profession of basically professional travelers like people who they go find the best path of how to have a trip to you know bali or whatever and like send you might follow somebody who's got like a fitness oriented angle right like oh yeah they wanna like go they this person likes b's versus hotels so i like aligned with them and then it's like they went and trained at this gym and got mu thai classes when they went to thailand like that's awesome that's the type of trip i wanna have so i'm gonna just copy their trip yeah more as a springboard we could do it we and do it for trips and weddings whenever i like saw my wife like working so hard this wedding i'm like just find someone else and just do the exact same thing no one will know who cares or her her her younger sisters getting married and i'm like dude just do exactly what we it was great it was an awesome somebody and of course obviously they don't like that but was again just do the exact same thing it was we all had a great time right yeah parties yeah super birthday parties i wanna copy or i wanna copy your work which is like it's pinterest but just like the whole thing shrunk together so and like and you stuff you would just do it where like someone uploads an itinerary and then you and then you people rate it and you pay them money and buy it yeah exactly so so you you don't have to buy the trip like just by doing the those people get paid mad money from affiliates like if i booked that resort because this person said this resort is awesome i'm gonna get a kickback of like all the things that they recommend now as pretty something reverse incentive but like everybody kinda offers a kickback so i think you can basically through affiliates you could monetize as pretty heavily for the for the creator themselves so what which you which is what you could do is you could say it's not about the creator you just recommend what you genuinely recommend we're gonna take the entire pool of affiliate fees and then pay it out based on whose trip got copied even if that hotel doesn't have to pay you to like know what i i'll do something like that where are you going hawaii oh that's cool and and you haven't found like not a fictional example this is a really example you haven't been able to find a a no i'm like it so first i went on whatever ex media and i was like god miserable don't wanna do this okay what else can do okay i could tweet this out and then i'm gonna get a bunch of recommendations alright that might work but that only works for me because i got a big following alright was like how don't people do this and i was like okay me go to i was let me go look at like you know an instagram person i follow but like they're not gonna happen to post about it that day so like it needs to be saved somewhere like a link of the bio of like or you know one of their instagram story highlights which is like take one of our trips and it's like you know they always do this like they do this with fashion it's called like i like i buy like or some shit like that it's like if you like my outfits you can go here and like you can buy any of the items from my outfit and they get a kickback so i like that for trips and then i went out youtube but i was watching like okay you know watch this like family vlog at a at one of the resorts and i'm like and they're okay when i like this eight minute video and it's just that one aspect it doesn't tell me about all the other shit that i could go do when i'm there and all that stuff so anyway so i i just think the that's bother almost elements of this happening is just somebody should make this like an explicit thing i think i jack smith uses va to do stuff constantly and he he's like at one point he even had some vas going into hotels into different countries and like taking pictures and sending it to him to let him know what it was but on a on a lighter for real on a lighter level i just think i've ever heard it's crazy and on a lighter but if didn't he pay for the big go on vacation like you found a local va yeah like you you'd find a local person he's like hey can you go to these three hotels that take pictures and let me know and then he like show to his wife like alright which ones do you want it was pretty good i'm calling him jack la from now on that's so crazy kinda similar to that jamie he just sent me a picture and it was him and andrew wilkinson said and he's like like i with ada drew and they have their ted talk badge on and so they're clearly at ted together i was like oh funny and yeah and anyway he does this all the time and it's actually really interesting and there's this company called flight fox do you know what flight fox it's is that like where you'll just is it like somebody will book it for it is it a travel agent or is it the one where you're like i just want something give me like the best deal you like it's amazing so i have no idea how they make this work so basically you go to flight fox and you always have to click the button that says you're traveling for business and then a person you select like i wanna go around this i wanna go this day and i wanna come back on this time or you can even say i wanna go around this time and then you like leave like notes like i've got a budget a blank or i only want first class or i have to be back for a wedding so i have to make sure there's backup flights and someone on the other end pops up it goes hey what's going on i'm with whatever i'm here to help you and it's a real person and they go in they find five to ten different flights that fit what you want and then you finally say alright this itinerary looks good or you'll you can even reply it be like this one actually i had to change of plans i've gotta change this this and this and they'll go and find fights for you and they find the cheapest ones and they know what to search for and they only get paid until after you book the flight and they just take a fifty dollar fee i have no idea how they make money and then like when i was in portugal my flight got canceled i just logged on i go hey the flight you book was canceled can you you know address it please and they call for you and they wait on hold for you and then you use paying fifty bucks it's amazing i have no idea how this makes money or how they can make that work yeah get it while lasts it's bucks it's that's amazing that's like i i think i told you about this thing i did once no points more points i it's our it's our butt it's our good buddy ramon good buddy oh yeah yeah yeah yeah this is like one of the best things i did it's like i booked this call with them and so you go to mop mo points dot com just like m mo points dot com and basically it solves a problem of like what credit cards should i get and so you just call this guy and he's like alright look like again you could just google what credit card should i guess what you're gonna get like the most seo optimized blog posts in the world because they they can make so much money off referring credit cards and you don't know if you're really getting the real deal and so i just called this guy i thirty minutes and he's was like alright tell me about what you spend on and tell me what you want do you wanna travel like a baller like he's like look i travel first class worldwide just off this he's like i'm not rich i just but i use points to do it here's how i was like yeah i want that and so he's like cool get the am mx gold he's like you're gonna get four x points on all your facebook ads for your e commerce thing you're gonna get one for you one for your wife so now you're gonna get like two million points or whatever like in the next year is like then to travel you just do this you can't get transfer points like don't book when their points portal because that's what i used to do used to go to my point thing i'd be like rewards flights man i get like half a flight for all my chase points like no you need to transfer to travel partners and then there you need to like check this out you use like k to fly you know here here and here and he's like just call me when you wanna book he's like for now by the school start racking up your points when you wanna book first class worldwide just call me again and i was like dude i feel so taken care of this was like the best money i've ever spent just in terms of the the again the relief of like i'm in good hands right like the real allstate state i'm in good hands is fucking moe from mo points dude i'm i'm a fan these services i and i like the model of these things are typically monetized through affiliates but instead you're just gonna pay and i'll give you a more honest answer i actually i i like that idea a lot yeah exactly meet me too i think it's great and and yeah people should go sign up for that thing because if you spend a significant amount on fact for your business it's like i mean it makes financial sense to like optimize that so you're either gonna get the best cash back like you know i found out oh if i use this bank of america platinum honors cash back card i get two point six percent back cash back which is like way higher than anybody else gets you does that mean it basically adds two percent to your bottom line yeah exactly like i i think twenty six percent yeah yeah so so you know if you're spending you know hundred grand a month on ads which is like very common for e commerce so she is around round number here and you're getting twenty six hundred dollars a month back just straight your bottom line right like that just a sense or you can reinvest that a five thousand person company or like bc g who sends people all around the world do they just have like a bank full of like points i i don't know what they do i actually asked my previous start this although i go what do we do all the points we collect who gets to use those and i i think they say that they just cash them they just do the cap cash back basically or they just convert them to cash which is like not the most efficient way to use it but like you know for simple this still that fair way to do it and they just like you know keep it i was like who keeps it you have where this money i kept i used our points at the hustle and i i flew first class like twice a month it sick and then when i sold the company i didn't have that perk anymore i was like damn i gotta pay for a flight for the first time in four years it sucks yeah so you gotta negotiate that in i like kept them i got to keep all the points we had like a million points but i didn't get to i didn't get future points gotcha alright that's it i'll save my other ideas for the next one and you got a crime baby yeah alright thank you