Four Ideas For AI, Twitter Empires, and Billion $ Thiel Fellowship Success Stories

i think this is one of the multi billion dollar trends that like you could be on right now and i don't say that for hyper like literally this is the window the tech is just now finally good enough it's not quite there but you need to start now and you could disrupt all of these marketplaces alright i went out with hassan last night for dinner can i tell you about it really quick do it it was awesome so you he like admire you a lot do you know that i admire him a lot so you pronounce the name min h or min min h right with that him i think i think his name has actually pronounced hassan min and calls him hassan hassan mano because it sounds awesome and it's like nicki mina nikki so you know whatever i i don't know what the don't know how how tricky is on that well we so basically the story of this is sean interviewed him last year i thought i saw on the street and i ran up and like went and said hey and it actually wasn't him and i looked like an idiot and i tweeted about it and a tech me i guess he got my number from you and he texted me and we went un hung out so this guy is like this you know pretty big deal comedian he is so smart he's so much smarter than i am and that's what i i learned that and number two i was so intimidated to be around him because i didn't know if like if i i was like can i make him laugh if i can make him laugh i'm like this is a weird and i i really didn't i didn't make him laugh i failed i i did not i cannot make him laugh and he like showed me these books that he's reading and i wanted to google like i wanted to tweak this out but i was too embarrassed so maybe you could tell me but i like like googled like books on how to be funny because after i hung up after i hung out with him i was like dude this guy's got me in a tran he could tell me about anything he's so funny and good at storytelling like i'm so into it and i was like i wanna figure out how to be funny and i went on amazon and i googled like how to be funny or like how to be clever and do you remember years ago when i wrote that article about this guy who games the amazon kindle system to rank really high and it's like for shit books but you like buys reviews dude it's like six of the top ten on page one we're all him it's all this guy i know the author i know the guy's safe so it's all bullshit what is there are there good books that i can read you think on how to be funny or how to be clever like i felt like such a nerd like i was gonna tweet this out but i'm gonna look like the biggest virgin on earth just like how do i like be clever in a conversation yeah i don't know dude that i feel like this is a but like it's like a it's like a skill that's only passed down like you know by hand and you can it's only like trial by fire like you have to like learn this when you're twelve and get good at like busting people's balls and like saying the funny thing in class like the theo vaughn has this like hilarious i know you like the too so here's this hilarious story he tells he goes dude i was in my like freshman i remember the first time i realized i was funny as a community he's like i was a as my freshman year at college and i was going to school in louisiana or whatever he's like and my professor said to our class he was like you know looked to your left looked to your right you know statistics will say that you know one one of the one of the three of you one out of every three people are going to end up being like a child whatever blessed or something like that he goes and i stood up and i just go not it he's getting killed and then he's like he's like that was the moment and first of all this is the hilarious story and secondly i think there's some truth to like you have these little moments where you get rewarded for being funny early on in life and you're like oh more that more of that alright how do i get more that last i i want more of and then you just keep doing it talent real but i think it's a i think just like anything like you know some people will never be able to dunk but you definitely can improve you can learn how to dr better than before for sure like there's gonna be a a skill there there's definitely a skill here you know i think like the best are definitely just born better but i can be good i can be good at there's a youtube video that you should watch so i've gone down this rabbit hole probably also after i met and and i was like shit he would tell me a story on the pod where he'd be talking and i'm so into the story i'm like you know he what does it eaten out at the palm of his hand and then he would ask me a question mid story and i just i'm like nodding like i'm still listening like it's a tv show and then i didn't realize that he said something to like he said he was selling some stories like everybody's got that kid growing up like you had that kid who who was it for you and i was so like ent by the story that i was just like yes and i realized i was like oh he asked me for a name and then i thought about who that would be and because i said and now and said yes that there is a kid and he's like who was it and i was like i can't remember any names growing i'm so into you that i've like forgotten who i am and my entire past and so you know that was what was happening when he was selling stores but he i asked him afterwards and i think he gave me a youtube video that was fun that they he he's like this is kinda interesting so it's called mark norman how to write a joke and i think it's like an hour long podcast so it's the the thing is called writing a joke with mark norman and mark norman is a good joke writer he's a funny comedian yeah he's great in this one hour thing he like kind of breaks down some of the to like mechanics of what makes something funny and it's not like follow this these three easy stops and youtube can be funny but it is like oh okay i could see how this like if i cons if i consistently practice these mechanics i can take something that's like not so funny and make it funnier or repeatedly and then like from there there's more their storytelling and their setups and there's like tagging jokes and there's other like things that you gotta learn obviously if you wanna do as well but i think that video is pretty good i wow like thousand views there's these guys who have this youtube channel called charisma on command and it's a beautiful name they've been doing it forever have you seen these guys yeah i remember for like maybe five seven years ago i was watching those videos yeah and they're cool there it could be a little lame because it's a it's a little bit more and like nerdy guys how to meet women which is cool and fine whatever but like you know i was not trying to i was dating my wife at the time so i was like just wanna learn how to be like more charismatic and i i remember their name and they like taught a course on it and like they had all this stuff like that's a beautiful name charisma on command i watched that mark norman joke but anyway hung out with this dude last night it was dope he paid for dinner so good first day it was awesome did you try to pay did you do the thing no for sure a lot me but i you know what what's funny is when i go he like liked this we went to gram tavern and he likes that place which is i guess is like a fancy or kind of fancy place i was like dude you come here he goes yeah i love i go i'm not even gonna look at a menu whatever you wanna order for me just you just do it all and that's that's how i love i love going to restaurants like that i do that all the i'm like i i don't care i eat meat vegetables get whatever so i was then after they order then you complain you got after there that's the the true bag move but you know one think people liked from the last pod or maybe a couple months ago i got a bunch of dms about this they were like dude i love the homie move that you said i was i didn't even remember what he's talking about he's like he's like remember the homie move that's like one of the top ten things you've shared on the which was you were like dude guess how many blah blah blah and like when you say that obviously it's something impressive but i kinda guess low so that you can have your your punchline line where you're like a hundred million and i'm like oh i only said ten because i kinda knew it's more than ten but let me give you this moment people love that that's those hilarious yeah i saw the comments people did dig that on youtube right so i made a little vow to myself to bring more specific ideas and stories to the pod because i personally love the free flowing just like whatever wherever our conversation goes it goes but i wanna make sure that you know we have the ent entree not just tapas it's not just the appetizers i wanna have the answers so let's jump into a couple ideas i got a few too or i got one big one i'm gonna go one and then you go one alright so we've talked about this a little bit in the past dolly and like how much ai is advancing and i don't know if it's just like my tiktok feed keeps feeding me these but every day i see a new incredible thing that ai can do you have to that help blown way what's that you have to explain what dolly is oh dolly is a program it's a artificial intelligence program dolly two i think is the current name of it that basically you just type in any word and it generates images on that so you could be like sam you know fishing and it will just generate images that like look like they're either hand drawn or like a stock photo that are sand fishing even though no such image exists let's say it will create the image so it like flips the whole idea of like creating art or taking photos or or painting something and it kinda like flips it on onset it's like no computers and robots can now do that almost as good if not in some cases better than what would be you know the real thing or humans human stuff and so you see that you see deep fakes like there's videos where you'll see the mona lisa and then they're like watch this and they push a button and also a sudden the mona lisa starts turning her head and she starts wrapping like you know notorious b g and it looks like the mouth is like in sync with the lyrics and the thing looks real it's like yeah they just took they can take an image and they could turn it into a video using ai like ai can basically say oh if i have this image i know where the eyes and those and met lips are i have been trained on what talking looks like what singing looks like what looking around and acting natural looks like and i could turn any image into that and it's really good it's it's really good they could take barack obama and they can make him like this happened now with you ukraine they took the the russian president like in the the way that people can photoshop an image to make it look real you could take barack obama and you can make it sound and look like he is saying something you know completely racist or whatever so yeah because i think been i can't trust videos well i heard a podcast about that particular one i think someone made one of these things to show how amazing it is and then they also showed but here's a downfall and they made obama i think he said the n word or something like crazy like not cool and they're like he said that isn't that amazing obviously he didn't but like it seems exactly like he said this is where it's gonna get it's gonna get dangerous totally and let me so so just keep going some random examples so there's another one where you you can draw like a very basic smiley face on on your ipad on this app could pro create and then you can it's basically just like eyes nose mouth and you're just like pencil drawing it then you change the brush to the ai paintbrush and you just kind of like shade in like you know like in a kid would like i saw end a shape and it like colors in as if you like painted this in find detail with the shadows and the colors the and all you're doing is literally is moving your hand like a fool and it's like it knows already what like high quality art looks like and it just turns your crappy art into high quality art it there it's amazing and so every day there's all these little amazing magic tricks and they're not like full proof yet but the demo is getting ridiculously impressive at i use it to up with the logo for a business i'm thinking about starting i use it to come up with a logo and it was awesome oh i do that all time yeah if you just google ai logo generator a brand generator there's like four websites that you can use and you just say like i you know it's a legal legal startup up the mood is serious but still sophisticated go and it'll spit out like an infinite number of logo variation that you could then and you could be like cool print this on business card that's i how they make money is like print this on a business card or like give me the high photo you actually use it like like i used it i used it yeah normally what i do is i go to ninety nine designs and i have like you ninety nine designs is amazing because you can get like thirty graphic designers to like make up a landing page and you'd can be like i like details from number one number eight and number fourteen and then someone combines all of them and they give me the one that i want whereas when you work with just one designer you gotta like a kinda be nice to them and be like no this this is you know this is okay but can you kinda change it like this and instead i could be like you know this sucks do this but also b you can see all different combinations and with dolly i'm excited to use it in that way and so let me give you like a couple ideas that i've had based off of what i've seen so here here's what i i i think these can be very big ideas now the problem with these i'll i'll tell the problem also is that i think it's so easy to do that you're gonna have a bunch of competition so you know you have to find a way to be defense but here are here we go four ideas that you can do with ai like right now okay so number one is which one i wanna start okay so number one is gonna be fake speech so i'm investing in this company called unreal speech i don't know if you've heard this but check this out this guy sends me hey deep fake audio of somebody of gary v and jordan peterson reading the milk road so i'm gonna just play one of these i think you can hear it let me just is the milk road the newsletter that brings you so much entertainment news and loves it should be illegal yeah no hypothetically speaking of course here's what's happening around crypto dude it sounds nice so that's like jordan peterson because just like jordan peterson here's gary v is the milk rope the newsletter that brings you so much entertainment news and labs it should be illegal y'all no hypothetically speaking of course you can see a message up sometimes it's happening around crypto the new stable coin on the block so so you that's amazing that is so good this is awful like that available very little this very little training data and literally just like takes my thing and you could see the the places where my my written stuff is like kind of like casual like you know blah blah blah is like it doesn't do that part very well but the other parts it does like pretty dang well what's a small amount of training unreal speech is it available to everyone yeah so well it's like it's like brand new so and so he was like hey yeah sean you wanna never do an ad read again he's like you know you have hundreds of hours of audio you and sam's voice that's on the podcast like all you need to do is just say the word and i i can make it so that you'll never have to do an ad read again did you do it i can make you i can make it so that the milk road it'll auto add a companion audio like if somebody wants to listen to the newsletter are on the go like it'll do it in your voice like i can just do that now and i was like wow this is incredible he's like yeah the and the way we're doing it is cheaper faster and like more accurate than like the the kind of the other models that are out there on like amazon or whatever so it's it's like you know dramatically cheaper to do because this is a little bit expensive whenever you do this because it's like machine learning but the cost just keeps falling every year and then there's techniques to make it even smaller and so think about this like language translation so for example there's a world where we do this podcast and unreal speech could translate this into another language in our voices with our tones right but just speaking another languages and so now all of us sudden our podcast is in you know is being you know done in spanish and in french and all these other languages and so we could grow without having to actually do extra work ourselves damn dude that's easy all ad reads stuff like that so i think that's a that's a great business there's also yeah there's there's other kinda like use cases for it but i'll i'll i'll leave it at that okay here's another one student essays so i told you about that guy who made a thing called right like sean dot com and it like i like mentioned it in my email and it like blew up but like caused him to have like a thousand dollar bill and a service and he he was like you know oh shit like you know the side project now is like a financial burden for me but basically this guy trained ai to write like i do and it was pretty damn good and i shared an example last time but this is not like has other do with me it's just you could take any corpus of text data in this case he just used my twitter feed as like the the corpus of text they could train it to write like that well there's one of the big things like you know i don't you remember growing up but like you get assigned you have to write an essay in school and you know some people would pay other people to do it for them some people would go find one online and try to pla it well this is gonna basically screw that whole thing up because i'm gonna be able to go on there and say hey write an essay about world war two and germany's role in it in the sophistication of a tenth grader and it's just going to spit out a full essay or like a thousand versions of an essay and i could just pick the one i like and i could just edit it in like maybe five minutes to like get rid of any like crappy computer mess yeah this is now a while you remember turned it in did you have turnitin it in dot com like it would help you like if you submitted what have to submit an essay in high school it happened so i used to like i thought i had this website that like would give you free essays and i would use them all the time you know and like most well i don't know if most people do it but you know a lot of people do it out there will think okay person and person did it and it it was awesome and i you like rewrite it a little bit but then they came up with turnitin dot com which ended up becoming like a huge company and sold for billions of dollars i believe where you would turn in your paper essay but then you also had to submit a an electronic copy and it did a pretty good job of finding out if it was pla frankly i have no idea how it did it and i don't actually think it's that sophisticated of technology but they just sold the schools and they like trusted that it was legitimate because like if you just google a phrase in quotations you could see like where you know what i mean like not like that sophisticated of a of a thing but like it would alert teachers like okay like ninety eight percent of this is copied from somewhere else right but yeah we ended the teacher doesn't wanna like google the teachers doesn't wanna google everybody's thinks so yeah that makes that makes total sense and that's that's exactly the case i think you're gonna have the creation of stuff of content on the ai auto generated content and then you're gonna have the fact checking side the detection businesses also both are gonna boom you're gonna have things that's that take a video and say is this a deep fake or is this a real video you're gonna have another one that's like is this a auto generated content or did a human write this like it's like the opposite of cap you know when you go to a website and it says prove that you're a human it's gonna basically be like prove this isn't a robot is basically what you're gonna have to do in order to trust that this person like did the work that it's that's required for this so i think that that's gonna be like on both sides there's gonna be businesses i'll give you another area that's gonna get totally disrupted print and patterns so people talk about like using ai for stock photos using ai for lange be like auto generated music that's all gonna happen too but here's what i think is like more more low key like when when patrick came on he was talking about quilt businesses so there's a huge market of just pattern making so this is for all like clothing you know blankets you know curtains whatever basically patterns and prints are everywhere you know in apparel and fashion and so if you wanna go and actually like make clothing you will often use like websites that have large libraries of patterns and prints what happens is today somebody handles draws each one of those like oh this floral pattern or this you know repeating pattern of you know whatever it could be like fire trucks for like you know some kid thing or whatever and then that person gets paid when you go buy that by that pattern you buy it for whatever a hundred dollars and now they get that as their like royalty stream well this is all gonna go ai in my opinion and somebody can compete with these because the sites that do this there worth hundreds of millions of dollars these marketplaces that have the creators and they have the we talked about one of them i forget what it was called i think i think it had gotten acquired by flower for like four hundred million yeah flower or something yeah not some flower classic or something they what that's gonna turn into is i'm gonna go on there i'm gonna be like cool i'm making a you know galaxy the i wanna a galaxy themes repeating pattern so i'm just gonna write galaxy themed repeating pattern and it's going to generate galaxy theme patterns and then they will be able to charge one tenth of what the other side's do because there's no human involved and they'll just keep all of that revenue for themselves so they will become the supply side of the market so this is like you can build a billion dollar marketplace because you now don't have to worry about supply it's what uber trying to do with self driving cars right it's like hey we can make these rides way cheaper and we can like you know make this whole system more efficient we just gotta get to self driving and tesla trying to do the same with the robo taxi it's like the big idea in in transportation is getting rid of the driver the same thing is gonna be the case with artists it's like we're gonna get rid of the artist we're gonna not need somebody to do the photography the videography the music the pattern making you know the voice over work that's what unreal speech is right voice over work the the the essay writing the ninety nine designs every single one of those they're either gonna have to release this and kill their own supply side or someone is gonna come and do it and eat their lunch i think this is one of the multi billion dollar trends that like you could be on right now and i don't say that for hyper like literally this is the window the tech is just now finally good enough it's not quite there but you need to start now and you could disrupt all of these marketplaces do you ever recognize stock image models on different websites yeah there's this guy who's in the bachelor who's a stock image and he's like in like a bunch of like funny like whatever random like kids halloween costumes it's like there's that guy and do you see him begin on this like hot sauce commercial like there's that guy it is this just like this generic smiling black guy and it's like they just reuse them everywhere i saw like the lady that was on the google analytics page it was two ladies and i saw one of them in public and i went up and got a picture with there and and like i saw her and i recognize there and then there's this other lady that was on the google analytics page it's like it's always it's like a lot of times the same person it's like a racially ambiguous woman with like curly hair it's like you know who could be a talia she gonna be black could be jewish white who knows like it just represents everyone and i see this woman everywhere on all different websites i used her a couple times i love this lady and i get sick of using the same pictures though all the time so for some of my projects i've been using if you you can use dolly and you can use a couple other services and they'll give you fake people so i have a couple of websites that have like testimonials and the real testimonials but i don't wanna use the people's face because i didn't exactly ask them for it was like a email that they like wrote me you know what mean i wanna use like their face because they didn't give me permission but like it's who cares just a sentence i i can use that and i'll use i google ai sample faces and you can get all types of faces and you could say like make this person this race make this person happy make them serious you can change it and you can make them all the types of stuff and i've been using that for sample images because when we running the hustle once wrong we would like do it the right way where we would like use an image that was for commercial use but sometimes it would get categorized wrong and we would we'd get like a what they call it like a i forget what it via notice yeah that's right and they say like you we're you have to in multiple times we've had to pay five grand you know you just like fuck these you guys like they're gonna cause that issue just got paying five thousand dollars and they're gonna go away but this is we just we're gonna get you know we're getting screwed here but whatever we're gotta do it i've been using them for stock images so i don't have to worry about getting sued or get one of these seasoned desist letters totally it's gonna be the case with stock images you know like designers always use these libraries of like icons and illustrations and there's like websites like the noun project and other things like that what so what dolly did was basically they just read all of the text on the internet and then they used it to create new stuff and some people like dude that's messed up like github is doing this too github basically read all of the code that was on github they had a crawl are basically index all of that learn they fed all of that that user data and they you've fed into machine learning and now they have this thing called github c copilot which is i think like i don't know how much it is like a hundred dollars a month or something like that but it basically it's like you know if you're a programmer we will this github help c copilot can basically help you write your code you're like typing your code and it'll just auto fill like auto complete line code so it's like oh dude that makes you know this two hundred or fifty thousand dollar a year software developer more efficient and more effective and less bugs and less mistakes and less thinking it lets a less talented person sort of create these functions and and write code and it's like a no brainer like github c copilot is gonna generate like hundreds of millions of dollars for github that's crazy create this product flip to switch it's gonna be a multi billion dollar product line just because it's generating so much revenue wow and some people are mad about it because they're like dude you read my code use my code as the training data and i get nothing from this like that's crazy you're gonna basically put me out of a job by using my own data as the training data for this and that's the same thing that's gonna happen what these like these websites by the way ben found spoon flower what's the name of the the pattern so all you have to do if you're doing this is like you're gonna go and you're gonna scrape and crawl spoon flower you're gonna ingest all of the patterns with all of the tags and then you're gonna basically train it train a dataset so that says okay cool the this is what a pattern with x y and z keyword looks like great now you give me that keyword again i can generate five hundred new patterns from scratch and boot bars is basically going to create its destroyer in that sense like it is gonna the data from these from stuff that's already on the internet is what's gonna destroy those those services and i say it kind of hard like you know in a in a violent way like destroy and all that stuff but it is true like these are gonna be very competitive very quickly and it's gonna be like the same way that the chess programs like got really good really fast and all of a sudden it's like oh yeah know the human cannot be gonna be like the chips or the giving is top graphic design yeah exactly join join to like enslave and pill you know it's gonna go to your village it's gonna kill the men it's gonna marry all the women and it's gonna put the children to work like that's what's gonna happen with this these ai marketplaces that's my my prediction so ben go to this website i i sent you the chat can you share this sam i think you've used this before too but it's a cool one for people who don't know it's this person does not exist dot that's what i used and so like look at this that looks like you bed kinda of mean it just looks like a basic light dude this guy sounds like a on control it takes a quick picture of you from your webcam and it just makes someone like you this is a dude that this person does designs exists that's a ai composite of a face so you can use this face anywhere in your website copyright for you because nobody's gonna be like hey dude that's me this is like such a useful funny website and it shows you in the bottom right it'll tell you exactly how the image is created it's like it was imagine by a gan which is a type of machine learning thing or whatever here's how it works you can use it yourself you know blah blah and watch this you can use it for cats and horses and chemicals it's like this camp this cat does not exist and you can like click a cat and it'll like ai generate a cat yeah this is amazing i usually just take screenshot of those and i use those on like different websites and so so yeah those are three three ideas i think i said student sa generation unreal voices for voice overs and never you know never having to you're basically turning your voice into a programmable asset and then patterns and prints and that's just like that's not even saying some of the obvious ones that i the other ones i mentioned like stocks this is great million dollars isn't cool you know what's it's cool a billion dollars alright i have something for you have you heard of john stein is he like i who did cheddar yeah so let listen to the story and and i'm gonna there's a reason why i'm telling you but let tell you the story so basically john stein was the coo of buzzfeed for a long time i i think when he joined the buzzfeed it was like twenty people so he wasn't quite the cofounder but he was he worked his way up to be coo and he was like the ad sales guy he became coo and he kinda was like pushing it hard and was almost like a cofounder a buzzfeed and he's incredibly aggressive very aggressive and he started this thing years ago like eight years ago or maybe six years ago called cheddar and the whole stick was that it was gonna be alive it's tv station for facebook live and when he launched it we were just getting started and he like messaged me he was have we met yet which was just an alpha like the such an alpha way to like hey i forgot your name we have written you message yeah he was like hey dave i was like dude it's it says sam we're on facebook you i know you're sorry a bad of names and faces yeah what he goes have we met yet we should meet that's what he said and i like go okay cool he goes i'm in san francisco what's your office i'll come tomorrow that's what he said and i was like i yeah so he i i hang out them nice nice guy incredibly aggressive basically told me that like buzzfeed was great but he wanted to sell or something or i don't know if he said this right right about it but like he wanted an exit and it didn't happen so like he was like i'm just gonna build this thing and i'm gonna have an and he's told me he was what's gonna happen is i'm gonna raise a little bit of money like thirty million dollars it's gonna do pretty good and then a big cable company is gonna buy us because it's just gonna be cheaper for them to buy us and to go make one of these cable like a like a twenty four hour news network on their own and there's gonna bias us for like two hundred or three hundred million dollars and at the time and even at the time they got bought no one watched this thing you'd would go into the facebook live and like there'd be like twenty people watching it in and given point it was all on facebook and like no one watched it and i remember thinking like this guy's is crazy this is not gonna to work no one watched this is this is nonsense this is a bad business is a bad company and two years in he told me he goes in year two or three we're gonna get acquired for a couple hundred million bucks in year three i think he sold the business for two hundred fifty million dollars one hundred percent called his shot if you google a cheddar cable company also to a cable company to like an australian cable company that i never heard of i think they're popular new york think they have like got a thing in new york too and he sold it and he totally pulled it off and he completely disappeared he fell off the map before he was like speaking to all these conferences but he called this shot and he nailed it and i remember talking to other guys who worked in the media industry and they're like yeah he told me the exact same thing and he absolutely called this shot and this guy is so aggressive man he's a shark not in a bad way but like he just bull us through this it just put so much intensity and energy and he pulled it off but the reason i'm bringing this up he did it and another woman who were friends with rebecca did i asked her how she got popular on youtube she's i just quit my job and i like worked fifty hours a week and i like i got up at nine and i like worked till seven and like i studied the data and i just treated it like a business and it like became popular and now i make you know seven or eight figures whatever she makes a year and i'm rich and famous and whatever it worked because i was talented and i worked hard and i treated like a job what i think is gonna happen and we this is a little circle jerky because both you and i like twitter i think that very few people take twitter seriously enough to do that you know like five or eight years ago we'd be like mister beast you're gonna like dedicate your life to youtube that's a stupidest thing ever that won't work like what are you doing is just a hobby this is a joke now it's not it's not funny like we all know that like that's real you can become a youtuber and you know you could be like a speech and make hundreds of millions of dollars a year you become a tiktok and become like some of these other famous people and do all this crazy stuff no one takes that seriously about twitter where they think like well you know if you're just like quit and like take this seriously and like build a following and like write interesting stuff and i think in the next two or three years we might see like a few empires be built on top of twitter and it sounds kinda silly now because like oh just these like stupid like you know twitter threads of guys talking about x y and z and summarizing wikipedia and they're kinda right but i think that there's gonna be someone on twitter that treats it kinda like cheddar did it's kinda like mister beast and they take it really seriously and i think there's actually a huge opening and a huge gap in the market right now where very few people are taking it seriously and it's incredibly easy to capitalize on this second right now this is one of the more interesting things i feel like you said this is i i actually i don't even think you normally think like this i feel like this is a like this is not your you say a lot of interesting stuff but it's you're you you usually fall into i found this really interesting diamond in the rough you're amazing at that another is i see what these people are doing and let me break it down in simple terms like all they're doing is ex and sometimes you're like you know this is a trend or an industry i see this is different this is like this is something something different i like i like that you're bringing this up let's break this down so every agree with me at first when you i think you tweeted this out and i was like i don't really understand what he's talking i didn't really understand it then you just explained it and it's i'm starting to come around on it i'm like oh wait he's kinda right every big social media platform has like native stars so yes if you're you know whatever you're the president and you go on twitter you're gonna get a bunch of followers that's one thing but basically if you take every medium so podcasting you have joe rogan you have like then the people like joe rogan you have to call her daddy's and you have like other tip ferris you have other people who like they become stars on that platform and they use that to build a pretty big empire you know tens of millions if not hundreds of millions that they can make off it youtube obviously there's youtubers tiktok has tiktok stars people who were not famous on youtube but got famous on tiktok instagram also right there's instagram models and instagram like influencers that they were nobody and they became big on instagram multi billion dollar companies we're talking kardashians rihanna like these like huge things well i i think they were rihanna they were a big off of instagram they were big without it like instagram also in instagram had turbo charge to them but like there are other people that are you know just instagram like instagram made them famous like dan bi area and it's a good example like he's not famous without instagram then with instagram he becomes famous and then now he does multiple platforms right but by the end everybody does multiple platforms but you kind of you're really good at the medium so like for example dan aaron takes photos of himself blowing up cars with hot girls like in bikini guess what instagram is a visual like you know put one killer image on there and they're amazing at it and so that worked really well there you're kinda right who is that on twitter who is who is a twitter native star i don't even know what that would be like is there so who who is i mean there's a there's a few like i would say i'm on twitter ten times a day like do i not know this like you and i are like very miniature versions but we haven't really like i'm talking in like saw hills is a bigger version so our friend saw bloom trunk who used to work for me he is kinda like that but you know we're still talking like five hundred thousand followers no one has really pushed it to where it's like how do i get ten or twenty million you know how do i become like how do i build a proper empire as opposed to a niche now the difference is basically between everything you mentioned in twitter is twitter is copy based text base whereas the other ones are visual based so i think there's one of two routes that's gonna happen you figure out how to add visuals to your thing and videos don't usually do that well twitter but pictures do or you just get really good at writing and i was like well writings at that port but i'm like wait no i'm an idiot like you know who danielle steele or james patterson is yeah yeah yeah course these people have sold literally like i i believe danielle steele has sold like a hundred million plus books i don't know if you know this but in san francisco she's got like the biggest mansion in san at house yeah the big row her house is like the big fortress yeah and then you got james patterson i bet you he's a billionaire there too james patterson basically writes like fifty books a year i don't even know if he writes a lot of them if he just max his logo on it but like know i was thinking it like that sounds outrageous just put okay i i forget but it's maybe one it's like one a month it'll say like you know what he does is like it'll be like written by james patterson and bill clinton and then it says like and also this other name and it's like a duo about them it's like a a story written about like the white house or something like that and he like partners it's like this weird thing that he does he writes a ton he's prolific and a lot of like like real quote authors like these like artist folks are like oh that's just garbage but he's like dude i don't care i'm pumping this shit out anyway like authors like definitely crush it still and the power of the written word is very powerful enough to like you know get these people to buy all these books and i still think that's possible but i i i do think that we're gonna see like an empire built on top of twitter arguably you and i have created we've easily created seven figures of personal income through twitter maybe you could say even i have to add it up maybe eight figures but a lot i think though that there's gonna be literally billionaires created on twitter and it hasn't happened yet though wow yeah what's we can't call ours empires like what's this what's a very very small like a lego like a convenience store yeah like we we did like a quickie part yeah we own like four burger kings you know what i mean you're right that saw hill and t are good examples of like they actually try so like they like religiously write content they schedule it they research it they like published they like try to amplify it they have covid it works at the bottom and it works and i've seen them crawl from zero to saw hills at like half a million maybe more i don't know dude a lot of people even know that trunk so trunk worked at the hustle he wrote the daily email we found him when he was working at like a as a financial analyst analyst not it like it was all internal reports we like he signed up for twitter while he worked at my company and we all like shared each other in this like silly circle jerk circle and now he's got six hundred thousand followers and he's like a personality and like people know him like they talk about him and now how he's funny and all this stuff and i think it's gonna happen and like when i tweeted out that event thing a thousand people signed up and i'm like oh my god like why aren't you actually see instagram like you'll see like the logan the jake paul's and the logan paul they'll like say like i'm gonna be they were starting on youtube they're like we're gonna be at this location come and they film all these crazy videos of all these people around us no one's doing that shit for twitter and and i think that someone needs to just take the youtuber playbook and just deploy it here and take it full time and seriously and they could create tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of wealth and so what would you do because like i think well the guys we talked about the you know saw hill basically does like kind of like mental model intellectual like stuff it's like oh you know either like kind of what i'll call like the generic life advice generic business advice or like you know hey let me tell you about this phenomenon in psychology about cognitive biases and here's thirty cognitive biases you you you wanna be aware of and like i don't know why these do so well they do incredibly well there's not mike cup tea but it's definitely other people's cup tea for that here's what they need to do here's how you cross the chasm here's how you cross this threshold so basically these guys are popular on this twitter medium and twitter is all it feels like a one to one a little bit or maybe like a one to ten it's like me and my ten friends like consume this and we'll joke about it but i'm not talking to a guy on the train or i'm not like talk telling a family member like hey you know did you guys see x y and z like we're not talking about that so what they need to do is two things number one they need a meet up with like mainstream celebrity people or like mainstream people and take pictures with them and show it and it's like oh man this guy's is like bigger than just my little audience look at this like these people like arnold sc likes this person and pick a photo with them that's amazing the second thing that they need to do is they need to get off of twitter and into real life so for example in the early two thousand tens when the casper of the world are coming out subways in manhattan were under price in for the billboards and a couple of these companies like subway oscar they go let's advertise on these billboards down in the subway and then we'll actually buy real and people are like why would you do that like we could track all this on the internet and they're like well because if we get it out off of the internet it's gonna see more than just an online thing and it's gonna feel more like a real tangible thing you know you're gonna see like this ad next to like you know a ford ad then next to this thing it's gonna feel like this is actually a little bit more legitimate and so what they need to figure out is how to do that so you do that by having real life events you do that by like getting a book that you publish you get that by getting a cameo on a tv show and you like get everyone in on the joke because like hey you everyone check this out they asked me to be a background on friends like here like you could see my head in that hilarious like you do these things like that where like real life and like bigger than just this one to ten thing and if people start taking you seriously and realize that it creates fo and it creates social proof and you start becoming actually culturally relevant you know what i mean and that's how you should do it so you just like take pictures with you and celebrities and then try to get in more in person stuff so you're off of the internet and i think that would worked yeah i think i think that's good at advice like people will believe about you what you believe about yourself and and also people will believe about you what they think others believe by you so if i see you hanging out you know if i see this why youtube works right like people on youtube will have like you know or instagram they'll have like they're taking a but it's actually the background that's the picture it's like i'm just trying to show you that i'm sitting in this car or at this place or with these people and there's like everything that said is actually in the background the foreground is just kinda like you're excuse to to say it or when casey neistat sat like walking through new york and he's has kids coming up to him and goes hey what's up kids say hi to the you're on the vlog like you what i mean it's like oh wow like in new york casey gets recognized everywhere he's more than just what i see on my screen and like celebrities do this they like when they like tip off you know the paparazzi to come like take pictures of them and they they're like they like for time pretend like they're trying to not be seen but then like they actually it's like a deal like hey i'm gonna be here come come show up and take my photo and then we're gonna use that photo for this or they're like you know do something like that so so i think that's a thing like i a buddy who created a he's got like an online e ecommerce brand they open up their first store the store not gonna do that many sales but just showing that hey we opened our first store in new york it's like kind of like you know wherever in new york i'm like small place and it's like just that makes it feel like this brand is more trustworthy it's more established it's more legit and then they had a bunch of friends like fifteen friends show up and they were like doing a ribbon ribbon cutting ceremony and the friends are all like hey well yeah yeah hey what question for you like you know like trying to pretend like they're the media and and and and like if you zoomed out it's like ten people standing in a small register but like from the right angle it looked like a mob was at the store and again it's like per this perception creates some version of reality so i definitely think that helps i don't think that's enough to build the empire i think you gotta do two things one be in it for like the next seven years like mister beast all these guys they didn't start with like you know as big as they are it takes like five to seven years to build something like really a truly massive the second is i would stop trying to jump off twitter and go to other places and be like this is where the good shit is i'm gonna master this medium and this medium totally i'm gonna make it work here the third is i would do some of the stuff that just helps build fame in the first place so i think having your lane or your niche helps because it'll attract people who are interested in that second controversy or collab with others i think it's gonna work you know and people don't do controversial stuff really on twitter right now but it should be like oh my god i called in to like this show and i got you know how people just calling howard stern and like get him to like say this crazy like check this out got them you know what i mean well some people do it that and and it works like there's a guy who's doing this as zach weinberg or something like that he love that guy built and sold like i don't know two billion dollar company in like the biotech space or some shit like that but why does everybody know because he's the guy who just will consistently shit on crypto he just is challenging people to fights about crypto and he's just trying to debate them in public and embarrass them that is this whole stick and he's getting so much fame for dunkin on people in crypto and because there's a set of audience that likes to a watch a fight and b that likes to that his anti crypto has some anti crypto feelings and they're like he is their champion you go debate people because i don't know if i'd be able to and so that's a shapiro got famous too by the way and on top of that then you have like keith boy or whenever people who were just like a dick to other people like he'll just like respond to somebody like wrong and they're like well explain like you i'd love to hear your perspective and he's like i don't share my perspective with fucking losers or i know whatever like he's like he'll like he'll sit on you once and then he'll even if you try in good faith to come back he'll be like the data is out there go read a book and like one time he was like one done the best thing goes i've forgotten more about startups and you'll ever even know yeah exactly or he'll be like call me after your sixth unicorn because that's where i am or whatever you like he's like you know obnoxious just like shitting on people and it's hilarious and because of that like the controversy spread some people hate them something people love them and he kinda uses that to to to to grow so anyways i i think controversy is also another underwriting there's is a bunch of things that people need do but i would say the main one is like find your your angle your hook your niche like for case neistat that it's the daily leave vlog for other people it's the explain videos so it's like whatever you gotta find that for you on twitter and then like do it for five to seven years and have faith that like just like it wasn't obvious that being a youtuber was just such a big deal back then i think it's not that obvious you know to your point that you can do this on twitter too yeah i so that's my that's my i'm i'm that's my pitch i think it could be cool alright can i tell you about something that i kinda knew about but has recently blown my mind yeah it's the teal fellowship so you know yeah that's amazing what the teal fellowship is ben i'm curious do you know what the teal fellowship was come come up from mute for bit so i think sam already knows i wanna talk to somebody who's maybe more where the audience is which may you know aware but not familiar yeah so i know the teal fellowship is i'll tell you just my impression of someone who doesn't know a ton about it is just that it's for essentially high schoolers who are super geniuses and peter t is gonna give you a bunch of money in order to not go to college and do something cool instead kind of you're in it's actually i i think it's actually four people in college to leave college for a year so hundred k to basically leave college for a year and work on something interesting and ben if i asked you like hey is it like successful successful do you have any idea no except for that i know what's his name did it the guy who did ethereum metallic yeah exactly metallic yeah yeah so which i still i haven't told my metallic story on air which is i was in amsterdam and i saw him and i couldn't think what to say and he's walking right past me and i just turned him it you're metallic and he didn't like look or say anything he just kept walking but it was him i really have security with him no he's walking all alone on the streets of amsterdam at at eight am in the morning it's just us our software is the worst have you heard of hubspot see most crm are a cobb together mess but hub hubspot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous think i love our new crm our software is the best hubspot grow better yeah i'd we need to protect this man he never has security with him and he's just like wander around random cafes and goes to events and stuff like i'm like dude so yeah i really hope he's got such good security that you just can't see them i'm i'll that's what i'll tell myself so this teal fellowship thing is amazing the teal fellowship was exactly what you said peter t comes out peter t is the kind of a founder of paypal he was the first investor in facebook but five hundred k in facebook early on which became hundreds of millions of dollars not billions of dollars and also you know prolific investor and a bunch of other things including spacex and and other businesses so peter till comes out and he basically says college education is a bubble he says college education is it's sort of a joke he's like you know it hides under this this this like banner like it's teaching you something like you're getting information but really what you're getting is some version of like an insurance policy like i got this degree so i'm not gonna fall through the cracks of society and you're getting like you know some status symbol like i got this stamp on my thing so it's like a luxury it's like a luxury product like wearing a a a nice bag your harvard degree is like your le vuitton bag and and so he talks about colleges he's like it's cost just keep going up and up and up but the value and the the salaries that you make don't go up and so it's just like overpriced bubble just like the housing bubble he says and he says i'm going to offer i'm gonna offer something called the teal fellowship which is a hundred thousand dollars if you drop out of college and feel work on something interesting and a bunch of people criticize them they say dude like you know how dare you you're telling kids like the normal phrases kids stay in school you're like we get it you're contra and you're saying kids don't say go stay in school and you're like trying to get people to drop out like what kind of like you're worse than a vape you know and so you know people didn't like what he was doing yeah other people were just like oh it's cool but like you know who knows that this is gonna work or not like alright you're gonna pay this kid hundred grand to you know do a summer project great so what this thing is amazing it is produced it worked out really well didn't it and nobody talks about it so let me tell you some of the things that come out of this you have like you said ethereum which is like a hundred and seventy billion dollar market cap thing that came from metallic probably like this generation version of facebook is like you know is ethereum so that comes out of this where metallic does the teal fellowship and continues yeah know working on ethereum during that time and and he launched so that's one super super super successful thing also fig which is like a somewhere between five and ten billion dollar closer to company that takes on adobe in the design space and dylan who is you know the founder of fig was in the was in the teal fellowship another one o rooms so this is an india it's like a you know kinda of like a airbnb ish sort of thing it's like a hospitality you know website audio rooms multi billion dollar company tens a billion lu technologies most people don't know this it's a like lidar company that basically the technology you need for self driving cars and this thing i think went public in a spa this guy's is like i don't know twenty one twenty two years old twenty three years old something like that and these worth like a billion dollars it's like one of the world's youngest billionaires if not the youngest billionaire off of this thing that is just alone is crazy also polka dot another crypto protocol valued at you know seven billion dollars like i just told you basically two hundred billion dollars worth of business value that has come from this program and it's there's way more there there's actually like a dozens that are in like the hundred million dollar range i invested in a company that recently raised another round i think it was owner dot com the guy adam he he was a a teal fellow and i believe i mean that that that potentially could be unicorn but it's hundreds of millions for sure and there's like dozens more like that the reason i got reminded of this is because i invest in it metallic and jeremy kai the is the founder of metallic and he was like yeah i was a teal fellow that's how i was like how do we meet eventually he's like i a teal fellow we came to your office and you gave a talk and i thought it was awesome and so that's why we kept in touch and i was like dude was a metallic in the room he's like i don't think he's was like i don't think he was at that event but he's like dude he used to like crash on our couch she's like you know he was part of the program and he's like he's i was like what was he like he's like he's genuinely the weirdest person ever like the weirdest person i've ever met and like he's like yeah in a good way in a bad way nothing like you just nothing like nothing like i've ever seen just different different sort of cat and i it's like this is this is too good i think but i think you should keep using word cat by the way you like how i did that i i've been work shopping right now yeah it looks good on you yeah i i take it out for a spin i take it out of the garage you know you know twice a away gonna i just see do people kinda like flinch when i say that you know it was like flinch tried it with lit and that was i had to put that one back in storage now you're coming back out i put that one on ebay i actually got rid of it yeah no you're yeah you're you're you're you're too much of a gray bush for that one but cat yeah cat was cool i would stick with cat but it is crazy man this the peter taylor i thought it at first it was real it was kinda stupid i'm like dude this is weird like what are these like little eighteen year old nerds like they're not gonna do anything interesting obviously i was wrong i at like i it when i when i when i was like rethinking my opinion on i was like wow i guess just like high iq matters like it these guys they're just they have more power than i do i i always say they're just they're higher you're higher functioning than me you know that's just the only way i can describe you have more horsepower your oven burns hotter and it it actually it it it it it it truly matters and it makes a difference your oven birds otter it's good i gotta love that that you know what i mean they just got that they got that that total heater or furniture that's how i felt when i was at twitch i was like i was like okay let's see what are the like you know i had kinda had opinions from the outside like okay at these big tech companies what are the people like what are the execs like what are the average people like you know how hard do they work how smart are they like you know do they have like all these processes that are way better than the messy stuff i was doing at my start and like you know for the most part i would say it's kinda like you know i walked out a little cock than i came in and i came in pretty cocky and that's what i was you know it's just sort like okay like you know they don't have some magic you know processes or the people aren't that much better except like two or three people at the company and one one of which was ami who's the founder you know we would sit down and he there would be like you know data science will be presenting some report on like you know some trends and i'm just sitting there trying to like it's a six page memo i'm trying to like stop yawning because it's like i'm just like why do i keep yawning i'm having this like you know reflex i'm reading this thing i'm just trying to understand these charts and like you just hear this little click and it's like someone's pen is down and it's like you you know if you're taking a math that's like who's done with the test already and it would be emma he'd be like pens down he'd be playing hearts stone on his phone and you're like no he like he must have already read this or like and he but he must have skim and then then they're like alright yeah we're ready to start the discussion and he would be like so on page three you know this chart actually i noticed that the axis is a little wrong because you know if this was true then but then this other chart on page seven would show this i'm like what the you know what is happening how is your brain processing this much information this quickly and somehow always getting to like like the heart of the issue it's like we all spent our time and energy like trying to parse up what's important like immediately got to what was what was important and had the conclusion and had like the follow question and also identified why this paper wasn't very good in the first place and once i saw the brain doing that i was like oh okay there's just some cars you know have more horsepower like as you said the oven burns a little hotter and like his oven burns way hotter than mine and i was like oh that's good to know like because i have this thing i always say i like to see what level twelve looks like like what is oh that speaker system a little too loud for me but like i wanna know what volume on twelve even is i wanna feel you know my own chest are like vibrating with the base and it's like okay i i don't wanna be somebody who never sees it i wanna see it what was he like in like real life like outside of work because have you ever seen some of these people interact interaction like normal like life like they like i told you about one friend that's like intense and he literally only owns a t two t shirts one pair of underwear one pair of socks and his laptop that's was like the only thing he owns so he's worth hundreds of millions of dollars and then like i know a bunch of these guys that are like this and like for hobbies they're just all in and like so if they're into like you know like fucking their body or something they've got like every gadget you could ever imagine and they're they they could tell you all about it and or if they're into dieting they've got like their pant like my friend jack he's in a supplements he and he's got literally thirty thousand dollars worth of supplements in a closet and they beg what's this do what's this to what's this do and just like test everything what was he like in like like was he like if he's in into cars could be like tell you every single thing about like a porsche and what year it was from and why it was special yeah yes but before i tell you by him i just read this thing that was like about sergey b like the c founder of google and it's like what is certain like you know because he's in the years because of the his wife and elon and all that stuff and somebody people like what is sergei doing nowadays because he's not i don't think he's at google anymore and it said over the last year or two he's become very into personal fitness in fact he has been trying to master several olympic sports i was like what dude i don't know i looked at this guy he what like what for at pig pong you i don't know like shooting yeah curling yeah the other one is the i said he's currently writing a physics textbook and i was like of course he's writing a physics textbook like it's more like yeah so so anyways that yeah these guys are wired like that where like when they go in they go in like very deep and mean honestly i don't know him super well because i interacted mostly at work and anytime it was outside of work it was it was really cool but it was like you know limited it wasn't like a hung out with them like a hundred times it maybe be more like five times you know something like that over the couple years i was there what i would say is like a couple of little things that stood out one he's like us he's an idea machine in fact i need to get him on the podcast because you've been saying that for three years now i know i know and when i was there i didn't ask him because i was like you know already you know me doing this podcast is not a you know yeah you're like hey you bail at noon and go and record yeah it's not everyone's favorite thing i do yeah you know but but i think now i can do it but he would like like he told this idea he's like tell you about his gym idea no he's like he's like jim's he's like jim's need to be made like video games if i was gonna leave twitch i might start this a gym that structured like a video game so he's like this is how works you show up and you're like the beginning character of a of a game like you show up and we give you kind of like your basic uniform and we have a little little wrist strap that like tracks your level of like fitness and intensity as you work out and you let basically level up and so like every time you come to the gym you're earning points and like as you earn points like we give you like better gear like we'll give you the the like the the more fitted you know clothes that look cooler and so you can visibly see people's different levels as they go to the gym you would be able to like go into certain sections of the gym that were previously locked to you you would be able to get like protein shakes and stuff free and he's like i like i think if you ga fight a gym people would come more and like actually this is kind of played out with peloton peloton is very much organized like this with leader boards and stuff like gamification but i was like this is a crazy idea yeah it'd be like the world of warcraft of gyms like people would grind like years of their life to level up their character to sixty and they would like work to do it he's like i think you could do that with with a gym i was like wow yeah mean people do that with like karate and and you black bell brown belt blue belt type exactly and they stick with it they keep showing up because they're ten plus and he's like you know you don't want the increments to be like a year before you see some progress like every time you come you need to be earning a little bit more and getting a little bit more unlocked you know and see that the next mouse is just within reach so i thought that was interesting the second one he was like he's he was like trying to plug in the computer to like screen share one time with me like like normally these meetings are set up by somebody else but like if it's just you too like hey you gotta do it plug it in and he's like he's fucking cables he's like you know honestly i think i could create like the apple for like accessories for computer accessories he he's like just like the best connecting cables the best cable management the best plugs he's like he's like nobody he's like look at this it's like every office in the world has these and look at how bad they look how ugly they are how poorly they idea how confusing they are like i think they just build like a really nicely designed cables and connectors and accessories company for every office in the country and like you know people would people would pay for it and i was like like why do you think of these things say this is weird and so that's people say you he had a dozen ideas that were like this when was there alright that's one thing that i noticed we'll wrap this up real quick but i there's this famous story so this guy named chris sake was a popular investor and invested in instagram and a bunch of other stuff in uber and he's supposed to be one of the best angel investors of all time he told the story somewhere where he is in tahoe or truck where he has a home and he's with his dad in travis ka right when he was about to start uber came over to just spend the weekend you know family vacation and travis and and chris sack dad mister sac they start playing we tennis and travis is playing and the dads playing and they just like are being casual and travis was like alright you wanna step it so he steps it up and he just crush him and he just beats the guy like so bad and mister sac was like what the hell man and travis goes i've got a surprise to show you and he puts the weed from his left hand into his right hand he goes was playing left handed at the whole time i'm actually right handed let's really play and he goes travis goes alright but i do have to tell you something and they go to the ratings board and he's number two in the whole world at we tennis and chris sa was like right then and there i realized i never wanna compete against this guy because his drive and his hobby is winning and he just proved that like in his free time of starting this company he's just gonna be number one in the world that we tennis just because just because he has to and he just hustle my dad thinking that he was left handed and it worked perfectly this guy is a winner and that's why chris saga said he invested was like i just see his intensity in just walking around did a hundred percent degree peter t the same way like a master or grand master at chess and like the in the paypal mafia which is now like the most successful entrepreneur group ever i think several of them were like very very high level chess players that that that have got gone through that you know that like we're we're in that thing there's like something to the the oven burns hotter that's like true for some these people it's a combination of intensity and capability that is that is definitely true like another kinda like emmett emit observation that i was like that's weird that doesn't seem normal so i guess two little ones one was i was like what do you for fun like what are you when you hang like what are you doing he's like oh like i love board games he's like he should come for like a board game night and i was like oh okay like what like what what are we playing like you know monopoly like twister what what do we got going here and he's like because this has looked at to be like we only pay like deep strategy games and it was like we only play cat tan on like hard mode or like even cat katana like the beginner when like name two other games i don't even know about that like you know are like this the they're like the board games that are like actually you know like multi level multi hour strategy games and basically it was him and the brothers from stripe hard and like the the founder of reddit and they would just get together and play these games on the weekend that's what they did exactly how we want them to spend their time exactly so i thought that was kinda funny and then the the other one was like we were in a meeting and he we were talking about like i don't know like some policy like oh these you know whatever yes some girls streaming on twitch and like our nipples showing like is that okay but it's like you know she lives in denmark you know what what are the rules around this should we banner her or like what and and there was always these policy questions coming up over and over and over again and it felt like you can't win because whatever twitch did it was like oh dude they're trying to control us censor us like they're inconsistent they should have also changed it over here like it was a no win policy and then you know like he would he would have these like he would have these hobbies which is like reading like old books that nobody would read like no normal person's reading these books and then he'd be able to connect the dots on two like completely unrelated things it's sort of like ben's podcast stuff or it's like oh actually like you know the roth child similarly set this up in a you know set up their will in a weird way because of this maybe you should do this like dude how do you know all this like really specific stuff from history he would be like do you know how the potato farmers governor like you know farms in the netherlands during the potato drought and then like the head of policy which is like no just tell me what he's like actually they had created this governing council that was blah and like the cool thing about this rule of law was blah blah maybe we should you know you should read that like tell me what you think about it and they're like alright like where do i find this like out of print book that you read like randomly and you remember what the potato farmers did and so he would always bring these like really unrelated examples in that was one thing and the other one was you he would debate you over semantics like to death so you would be like you know like it'd be like an exec off he'd be like and somebody people like you know i just feel like we don't own enough like trust on the team and everyone's like nodding like yeah know like you know he's like collaboration is a problem or whatever and he'd be like well is the trusted or collaboration because trust means this and collaboration means this that well you know just like the general like trust collaboration just like working together better he's like but like again define for me what you mean when you say trust i just wanna make sure i have it right and he's not trying to like it's not a gotcha he wants he's like hyper literal person so he's like when you say it's failing i take that to me it's failing is it failing or is it the other thing and people are like just getting lost in the sauce of this like semantic debate but like he really wanted to be hyper literal about it and i've never seen anybody do this in you know there were upside that gave a bad example here but like i think you understand the general premise which is that he really cared about words what they mean and why we're using them and if we're using them correctly to describe what's going on and everybody else was kinda hand wavy about stuff especially like the hire you go open organization you sort of get paid for being sort of high hand waving like a politician and he was the opposite of that so these are some of the things i noticed that now when i invest in founders i'm like like invested in this guy who created company be called sci he's like yeah i'm just like was like what'd you do before this he's like i a professional call duty player like before that i was you know i was a grinding and world of warcraft like it was a waste of time but like yeah was a you know top three in the world or whatever it's like what oh you were like a top three good star craft player like you know in this on the on the east coast server like okay you're a winner and you're obsessive and you are like you find the rules of the game and then you like optimize to win it and sure enough now like with his thing he's this like a wrecking ball with like acquiring customers because he just find this is the new game and he's like finding rules and he's like maximizing his edge and everything that he can do to the point where he's kind of like a nut job dude but like you know it works at the end of episodes like this i'm exhausted i feel like i just exert so much energy both listening and speaking do you have to take a nap at the end of this because you just spoke like with incredibly high energy for we've done this for we're an hour and seventeen minutes in do you get exhausted i i take naps after no not at all i i leave these on a high so do i but then i need to go to always you'd well yeah you never have one i usually drink three drinks while i'm i'm doing these but like i'm exhausted i get exhausted just listening well that's probably my fault so i'm sorry i know you know it's a it's it it's a good exhaust i'm like god i just learned so much and i need to get so much better at this this and this by hearing this story and i was just so intensely listening and ent by this conversation that i need a nap i've gotta go later that it's so i gotta go rest bella went on tim ferris podcast and do like a three hour podcast and i listened to it last night and like literally while it was happening i could feel my brain fat just trying to like digest what this man was saying he's so and by the way you also hear tim tim ferris sound i loved him ferris tim ferris sounds like an absolutely defeated man on these podcast podcasts with bald because ba would be like ana arc you know on one hand you have the woke capitalist on the other hand you have the ana ana you know the ana capitalist do you know what i mean when i say that in tim's of like no tell me and like that happens forty times in the episode he's like are you familiar with the concept of the you know the sc gear window it tim's like no by assuming you could tell and he's like he just does it over and over and over dude what that when he was us he was like he was like you know bitcoin is kind of like battle the bulge and you remember how the germans were doing it i'm like dude i don't i did an analogy for your analogy like you don't please don't reference battle of the bulge would try to explain a complicated topic like right know it's like you know bitcoin kinda like a like neuroscience like you don't have like the chemicals of like this this and this interact this way think about the think of a big one it the coin is the amygdala love of the crypto like well what's the thing i'll dude i don't know yeah that's what that's what what's was happening and i guess i did that to you in this case but no you you're you're what your way dumb i could totally keep up with that it just was a good story you just talk more no i thought it was good that was a compliment i get exhausted because i'm like so into it like i i like i i i love hearing these stories so much we used to do these mastermind like dinners or hangouts where it'd be me sam and like three other guys and we'd meet up every two weeks or or three weeks something like that and it would always be like you know each person gets twenty minutes and you'd sort of say what's going on in your business what's working what and what you want help what you want the other guys to like you know basically help you think through and then and those things last basically if you just do the math it's like six people twenty minutes each but everybody runs ten minutes over and like you know we start ten minutes late it's like this thing is three hours long and we would always started afterwards works so we'd started at like seven it would finish at ten ten thirty we skipped dinner nobody's like gone to the bathroom and basically there was two reactions some people were like fucking exhausted by the end of this and they're like this was great but like man next time let's try to be a little shorter and like i get that logically my reaction and we used to do some of these at your office i remember at the hustle office i don't know if you notice this i would leave your office at ten ten thirty and i would go straight to my office and i would just work four or five straight hours i was i can't do that i was so inspired was like a combination of inspired by the like your guys awesome miss panicked that like oh my god i have so much i need to do that i now realize and like oh fuck i need to do all of this and i'm just gonna try to do as much as i can tonight and like i was it's a combination of like enthusiasm and like feeling overwhelmed by like the amount of potential and ideas and like stuff i could be doing to make our stuff grow more no i could like drink gatorade and pick a power nap like yeah you don't like i yeah you don't feel up i'm better go eat a cliff bar i get more now i'm like my blood sugar's is low i could feel it i guess that's the episode right then