Did the creator of Bitcoin just get unmasked?

okay so maybe they found satoshi na which is exciting one of my favorite mysteries i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to put at all in in like a days off on a it's a into story and i you're talking about the new hbo documentary i didn't watch it yet but like the headlines make it like amazing out to watch it what's the what's the gist so the doctor is not amazing i'm i'm start with that it's good it's good but not amazing yeah or it's interesting because the guy thinks he found that's the only interesting part to be honest the documentaries kinda poorly made like the director makes himself a pretty big character and he also says stuff that feels like unprofessional like he'll be talking about like and then you know they made n t's whatever the hell those are and it's like whoa like why is the narrator like so opinionated it's kinda crazy but what's interesting to me is look i'm i'm i'm into any theory of whose satoshi is i think it i think it is amazing that's something like bitcoin even happened it's straight out of a movie yeah tell me the story okay though the whole story is this two thousand and eight really there's a white pay the big bitcoin bitcoin white paper gets released where some guy post on a forum and post in there that hey he thinks he solved the double spend problem which was a lot of people in the past that tried to make a virtual currency a digital gold there was e there was hash cash there was all these different things that were tried and they all filled for different reasons so for example e gold started to get really popular i had like two billion dollars in volume but the guy who created it created as a company it was a founder a ceo of a company called eagle and he lived in wherever canada or something like that and as it hits two billion in transaction volume and and on the website it says this is a digital currency backed by actual gold and it says we'll be around you know today tomorrow and forever and actually instead knock knock government knocks on his door comes in raids and puts in jail and so problem one with digital currencies was you can't be the guy behind it because as soon as this think it's popular you have too much power the nation states who could who today control the currency supply they're not gonna like you or that or they're just gonna do character attacks on you with to discredit the currency okay so satoshi solved that problem launching it under this pseudo satoshi na nobody knows who it is and not you know the anonymity of the whole thing and then he disappears okay so the second thing was other people tried to do it with hash cash and other things but to get the actual crypto talk to work to get the currency to work you had to make sure that nobody could double spend the money right so like one of the reasons when you swipe your credit card today that transaction goes to a bank the bank says yes this person's got the money and the that money's not already been spent it sends that message back to the register the register says approved that lets you go by the thing right so the bank takes its three percent fee because it's verifying that yes this person has the money that this person's card is not doesn't appear to be stolen and that that money has not already been spent in another shop ten minutes ago so what bitcoin did was or was satoshi we've released his white paper saying i think i've solved that problem i think i've actually created a decentralized way to make money meaning money that can be trusted even though there's no central party like a bank or a government that is verifying all the transactions okay so that's the breakthrough that happens two thousand eight they're discussing it two thousand and nine the first bitcoin block habits and did this person like actually code something you you use the phrase white paper which it as a white paper which is just an explanation of a system it's an idea it's an idea of written out like a business plan but the technical variant of right here's the here's the technical plan of how we could create a currency that's des decentralized that that trust alright great but it's not coded yet then he codes it and by the way people when they've looked at the code they're like this is not done by like a super sophisticated programmer like there's things that when you look at the code you could sorta of see the elegance of it the this styling of it all that the level of technical proficiency and peep when they when you look at that they don't think that it's done by somebody who's a super well a a a super senior programmer so they think either one of two things one it might be an academic type of person so somebody who's technical enough but really it's the theory this the the conceptual leap that was the big leap or that it might be somebody young they're like it works but it's just like the wires are messy exactly and by the way the the sort of sequence of events and i'm doing this off top of my head so i might get some dates on so two thousand and nine so after the eight financial crisis which was like what people believe was the stimulus for why satoshi felt this needed happen because the banks got super greedy le and brothers fails and other banks start to fail the us government steps in and buy seven hundred billion dollars worth of bad debt basically bail out the banks prints more money tries to basically paper over the problems right and so people who a want a currency that's like a hard currency meaning something that you can't he had just print a whole bunch more and dev value my currency because some other people made big mistakes they didn't like that and in general this idea that it's too big to fail and the government controls it people didn't like that and you know that he feels this way because he's blogging every day it's written in the there's there's references to why there's a need for this in the white paper there's his forum posts and this is all happening on message board forms which message board form originally it was just that the sort of crypto cinematographer like mailing list but then he created a a forum of his own called bitcoin talk so so satoshi creates bitcoin talk his username is called to which is a very important point for how this guy thinks he found him in the end so on january third the there's a message embedded in the first ever bitcoin block which says the times o three jan two thousand nine chancellor on the brink of second bailout for banks so in the very first block satoshi who mind that block the genesis block of the whole thing is basically putting in an like a statement there which is chances on the bank of on the the chancellor on the brink of a second bailout for the banks pointing out why we need something like this in the first place right is this this is so like you know like in high school where you read literature and they want you to dive deep and they're like you notice on you know page two hundred he killed someone one but you noticed on page fifty he alluded to like he was gonna do that like he said he loved red do you know wanna be like this is like what the has big aim away message energy it definitely has when i'm in the bathroom and i sean was here he is always here like what why would he mean who was trying to get poetic in the bathroom stall like that was satoshi on the first block alright so he posts there now let's fast forward a few years so they're and bitcoins like at like you know one cent thirty cents it's like not a not like what bitcoin is today at all anywhere close to it right and but the the community is interested in it and they're talking about it and it exists now a couple fast forward a couple years something happens where satoshi posts one day then the wikileaks leak happens satoshi post and says they've i i'm afraid that this is they've kicked the hornets nest and this is gonna cause a lot of unwanted you know attention it's too young it's too young to deal with the government coming after us to try to shut this down because wikileaks is saying oh we can use bitcoin and the government hates wikileaks therefore they're gonna try to cut like choke wikileaks by by killing the bitcoin system i'm so in that isn't that an into thing you're just like do around on a message board in your in your playing with concepts of like the government is after us or like this big national security threat is bad news for us because like you know what i mean it's like by the way there's references to the so early on when nobody like you know bitcoin might have had i don't know two hundred eyeballs on it at the time like two hundred people on earth knew about bitcoin but the foresight to say i'm gonna be satoshi i'm gonna keep this all the second thing to say what there's there's people like health any who go in there and the very early replies i'm like well if this actually became you know adopted as well you the world's reserve currency that would make every bitcoin worth like you know two million dollars or something like that it's like bitcoin is worth not even one dollar yeah that's just like a ridiculous thing to type out exactly is is absolutely ridiculous but this is like sort of the the foresight the visionary sense that but by the way that that guy hal a lot of people think hal is the how is because the case for hal is brilliant you know crypto mind he was the first recipient of bitcoin so the first transaction was satoshi sending to hal which if your programmer it's like did you send to yourself that's yeah usually that's how programmers start things that might also be the case against because if this guy's kinda trying to cover his tracks he would definitely not send to himself as the first transaction right and then hal gets luke ge disease and die dies it disappear basically he dies the same time satoshi last messages work right so and and if the fact that this person has resisted the temptation to move to like either claim credit or touch their you know seven hundred billion dollar fortune that's sitting there not a single coin has ever been used from that that that fortune maybe it's because the guy's dead right that's is the only way to explain somebody who has the the the resistance to it so that's also is related to the case which is also related to this current suspect case yeah exactly so let's carry on so people think it's how finicky people think it might be this guy adam back who who created hash cash and definitely traded emails early on with satoshi and you know he runs block a company associated with bitcoin so people don't know who it is they think it might be this this mysterious asian guy wade die he's like this brilliant crypto photographer for two nobody does it there's no photos of the this guy in the internet he claims so they're like maybe that's satoshi people don't know another person who like kinda came to the mix have you read the book about paul la i think is the book is called it's about it's called mastermind and people all and reddit it but you you told me about oh my god into story and like he was thrown in the mix so there's like all these people who thrown thrown in the mix i think it's elon is whoever and it's like yeah we get sort of far fetched that's sort of the fun of it by the way yeah is like you know the the mystery i i genuinely think we are all better off not knowing in fact i'm sorta of i'll spoil this for a second the documentary comes out it makes a case as to who they think it is the reaction on twitter is like oh my god that's no way that's bs s you know that that's weak proof i don't know i'm maybe it's because that was the reacted the versa like no way no chance no don't have no chance in hell i'm like i don't know the the evidence is sort of the evidence is sort of interesting yeah it's a picture of the person are shaken okay so let's start let's continue on so the wikileaks things at wikileaks thing happens i think something like two thousand eleven two thousand twelve satoshi post three days later he makes his last post so he posts wikileaks happens two days later three days later last post disappears never to be heard from again okay so that's the the the mystery kind of like sits there or actually i think he did come back and post something in like two thousand fourteen two thousand fifteen and by the way he didn't disappear as nobody heard from he at some point even said i'm gonna move on i'm gonna stop talking about i'm gonna stop contributing to this like it's it's on its way and and i i'm gonna move on i'm gonna stop talking about this so then into fourteenth of july fifteenth there's a big debate in bitcoin about like the transaction speeds too slow some people say hey we gotta make the block size bigger that'll let more transactions go through some people say no no you can't change something as fundamental as the block size we should do this other more complicated thing that will take years but the reason we should do that is because if we change anything about the bitcoin protocol it undermine it's like oh if you can change that then can't you change the twenty one million supply like he lose the core credibility yeah there's two sides of this debate and on one side of the debate is this guy roger who calls himself bitcoin jesus he he made a huge bet on bitcoin early on millions of dollars and became a billionaire off of it and there's other people who are saying look we need to get this thing adopted now we need the quick and dirty solution just double the block size and shut up about it alright you know people wanna use this thing and they can't use it today they got we gotta do the fast solution let's go go go they end up actually on the wrong side of the history the community goes against them they create their own thing called bitcoin cash kind of just thing that has low reputation the people who said no we gotta stay true to touch his vision were adam back it's got peter todd and like you know a handful of others who said no don't no the thing with bitcoin is it's gotta be pristine you can't it can't be where like the government government printing money we can't just suddenly arbitrarily change the rules it's like people who would followed the constitution which is like it's all like it's like a pretty funny thing that the constitution which just like a group of like twenty and thirty year olds who like came up with idea and now billions of people and two hundred and fifty years have passed and we've all just kinda bought into this idea that this is the way things are and no matter how the world changes where we don't break it we don't change it because even if you think you could a second amendment do we need that is that exactly right it's like once you change the amendments now everything's up for grabs and so it's actually sort of better for the collective of that which is like a ridiculous concept to think about and you can also say the same is true for like religion in like holy text where you're like someone wrote this and tens or hundreds of billions of people have dedicate their lives to it right like it is like that's really fascinating concept but and and that's what's happening or that is what you're referring to it becomes very much like a religion and the people who follow it are very like religious about it and so anyways he weighs in one last time there saying small block size is what we should do and it goes the way of adam back peter todd and these other guys okay cool that's the last we heard of and they tried to find him don't know how to find it so this is yeah who's the guy that documentary goes through and he basically under the premise of he goes to all the or og g bitcoin and he tells them i'm doing this documentary he doesn't tell them he's trying to find satoshi what he tells them is more along the lines of i wanna tell the bitcoin story i'm i don't know if he tells him it's gonna be on hbo but like this is good for things so a lot of them agree to do this which is pretty rare for them to agree to sit down and do these like taped interviews and along the way as he's to build make this documentary he's slipping in questions about satoshi who is are you satoshi why do people think that you are what's your claim to not be right hey people think that guy is do you think that well what makes that credible so he's slipping and then the documentaries is basically he kind of filters out eighty percent and ninety percent of their conversations probably and kept the ten percent and that was about like trying to figure out the satoshi stuff okay so in the end he he puts it on this guy peter todd ed peter todd seems like an unlikely character for a bunch of reasons number one when bitcoin when the bitcoin paper was released peter todd would have only been something like twenty three years old he was like kind of like a kid number two he's he's come out and joked around like yeah i am satoshi which like you know you the the real satoshi is probably pretty paranoid on the other hand some people say no the meta would be you joking say that you are our satoshi that's the throw suspicion off you right that sort of thing there's not a lot of evidence that ties him to this so they're like okay i guess it could be peter todd but like why not how anything think guy who got the first transaction why not adam back who was one of first people ever to talk to satoshi never has never has released those emails between him and satoshi and was the inventor of hash cash like that guy seems more sophisticated to be able to do this why is it not a group why is it not the fbi like the case against him isn't he can't be it's more of why ham there's so many other more likely people and again the biggest case against him is he was really young and that he he kind of trolls and jokes around with this and he's also very opinionated about other things so like he's very opinionated about like russia and ukraine like a bunch of shit like that and so people don't like him in general he's not a very well liked figure so it kind of doesn't jive with the bitcoin community that this is our fearless leader it's like wait we kind of think this guy's kind of a prick because satoshi kinda has this stoic mentality this writing that is like us versus the world like very much like visionary attitude and and you're describing someone that may not have like george washington vibes you know well look look the funniest tweet i saw on this because i trying to see the community's reaction the funniest is tweet i think is under underrated how people will feel about this the guy goes peter todd this it goes peter todd that's the most average ass name i've ever heard this guy this guy looks like the most average ass guy i've ever seen i'm looking at it i mean this guy disappointed like if that was satoshi i would be disappointed right like oh it's just this guy this is this white dude who like you know has all these like other opinions that i kinda with like that kind of the v of satoshi goes away so whereas if you google health fin he he looks like a person that just studies all day yeah how was this beloved guy and then he dies tragically and it's sort of like he he went down with ship the captain went down with the ship he never revealed and the other thing about hal is he cryo froze his head and so like if a thousand years from now cryo are a thing and you can un freeze they're like he's got the private key in his head and he'll come out of his satoshi he's like whatever okay so it's kind of like that has that sort of aura okay now let me give you the evidence why does this documentary guy claim that it's peter todd okay so the the evidence is basically this back right when that thing happened remember i said there was a post the wikileaks things happened and he disappeared everybody thinks that it's because of the wikileaks thing that he got paranoid and he decided to bounce there was one other thing that happened after that post that first post that was not to do with wikileaks weeks at all the that thing that happened was satoshi posted about how the transaction like mechanism works and then the first reply underneath an hour and a half later is from peter todd but it looks like a continuation of the thought so he says in the original post he says you know the inputs and the outputs would match and then he and then the peter todd reply comes in it just says to be specific the inputs and the outputs wouldn't exactly match it would be whatever now some people would say that's just a snarky internet forum like kinda rude comment like you didn't even there's no formality there's no like there's no there's no understand you're just like immediately trying like correct something from somebody's post that happens all the time of the other event another lens you could look at that same thing is satoshi writes this thing comes back to clarify forgets to switch back to his alt account and that post has been up there and it's been left up there for a very long time so the guy the documentary guy is reading that he's like dude are we how have we missed this doesn't this look like it's a continuation of the thought it's a clarification of thought and for this guy who's claims to have not been interested in bitcoin until years later and claims to be have been busy in school for him to come in at one thirty in the morning and make a super specific clarification as to how the bitcoin mechanism works that doesn't really line up with this guy who was an interested and didn't follow it and was just a kid at the time by the way this is how they caught ross z the creator of silk road he just he he posted on a forum logged into the wrong username or he left his email like like it was like a a clerical player the by the way this is how they got timothy big bay from oklahoma city bombing he one of his tail lights was out like there's like lots of examples of big shot criminals being busted over minor things of one this and but you know this is and but in the in right now on twitter people are saying you think sit satoshi who's been like flawless with his ops upset security of how he did this you think he would just stupidly the log in the wrong account yeah leave the message there and it's like yeah actually that happened all the time that's actually a a pretty common pattern in fact if i said what's the most likely way we find them it's either that or like you know maybe the email he registered his satoshi email with gets leaked somewhat some all the way it's like krishna it's it's a stereotype type of like when you think of like the brilliant scientist you think of albert einstein with like mismatched socks you what mean like the and this is like this is the internet equivalent of that so that's the first piece then then there's like some other there's like a few secondary things so there's like the language like he writes like cole with o r he writes like in the canadian english spelling this guy was going to school in toronto at the time but a lot of people like you know is this guy brilliant a satoshi you know his he he was so young at the time is this even possible and then they go find a message from him on the on the crypto forums before bitcoin ever came out eight years prior to when bitcoin came out so how old was he at that point fifteen or sixteen years old at the time and he writes he's he's hanging out in this you know cypher you know community and he's he basically says on the forum and he's like he's like yeah hash cash blah blah blah it had the and then he's talking about the mechanism he's like it would have to be something more than proof of work blah blah blah effing double spend problem and that's like the like the snippet from this email chain that he's posted back then which is like okay so you're fifteen sixteen years old you're obviously brilliant and not just like you know some random programmer kid and you're thinking and n about this problem eight years prior his mom taught him about crypto crypto his dad was an economist so it's like the two skills you would need to be satoshi is like you'd need the brilliance on the encryption and crypto side and you would need the ethos and the sort of ideology on you know creating you know what is a currency anyways what is money what is hard money and how does how does the world economics work that's his this is kid's background so i up with that how does he now by the way mid to late thirties this is his age now and he works for block stream and he's like very close to that i guy adam back and adam would have been the you know the people that he would collaborate with after after greatness now the most damning thing is so he the documentary confronts him on like lived and by the way imagine being thirty nine and having this documentary come out about you like accusing you of being the richest person in the world accusing you of inventing this amazing thing like there's one part of there's one side of you that's like oh man i want all the credit i wanna i want all this and the the other part but but then you're like well if i'm not it but should i say i'm it should i believe there's also a very irresponsible part of this let's say this documentary is wrong i mean you just painted it you just ruined the guy's life basically like if people believe that your satoshi your life immediately is in danger people think that you're one of the wealthiest people on earth every age government agency every government you know wants to to sort of take care to the back background and talk to you and and and sometimes worse right so like if he is satoshi i think it's a very bad thing for him i almost feel bad bringing it up but i think you know we gotta talk about i you know i needed to hear your reaction to this and obviously it's out i'm not the one you know putting this out there it's out now so so just watch this video and tell me what you think alright so you reach out to your old buddy out back you say we need to do something about this but we need to pay the devs but you can't join watch because it would look to suspicious okay so i just watched this clip first of all this is definitely editorial like you know very opinionated versus factual right this guy so so basically it's a tall nerdy guy with his hands in his pockets and he's doing exactly what i am accused of doing all the time when i'm nervous which is i rock back and forth fidget i shift shifty the eyes look at immediately look at the friend who you're in on a way with through by the way that guy adam in the back who's his friend who who's the other kinda like c collaborator on this thing silent the entire like frozen because because the director sort of sprung this they they didn't come out here to talk about that right they're they're doing this walk through this like ruins area or whatever supposed to talk about whatever and the director sort of does got you a moment and this is their reaction dude alright so he's got his hand at his pocket and he's rocking back and forth i had to off initiate a wedding last week and sarah was like i could tell you you're a nervous no one else knew you're nervous i knew your nervous and i was like oh she goes you are rocking bath back and forth you kept you kept doing that thing where you rocked back and forth and i do it all the time this guy's doing that exact same thing he's very clearly uncomfortable and he's got a very awkward word smile this is this is it's a so yeah he didn't respond well but you could also say like just chalk that up to every corner yeah this is do so like they can't make contact tags like that's why they're amazing like you can't be this and also have good eye contact that you can kim have both so what do you think is did he is this the guy so i don't know if this is the guy or not but it is probably the it's one of the most compelling things and it it's it's funny as being so discredited by the community so either i'm missing something which is entirely possible or it's sort of wish thinking because like it's much better if he's not satoshi and and i don't think the evidence is super super strong but it's a very compelling theory that's kind of where i've learned it's a compelling theory this guy who clearly at fifteen or sixteen was brilliant and thinking specifically about the double spend problem and then talks and then comes out and it has this this forum post which is the timing is very interesting about right when it happens the way it's written and then the guy disappears and then by the way this guy also disappeared for two years after that in the bitcoin form it doesn't participate and he's like oh i was busy i a student but well i should have been more interested bitcoin i just wasn't and then when he comes back he actually does a thing called replaced by fee which is basically this mechanism where you could pay a little extra to get your transaction done faster and actually he's like one of the useful patches to bitcoin so he comes back and contributes this useful patch to the bitcoin code afterwards and in this thing he's like his nervous answer is basically like what but me oh yeah yeah i'm totally start i mean that's crazy you why you saying that you know you're gonna look really stupid if you release this and it's like those are things i do when i'm trapped the line maybe i'm projecting here do what you alluded to something about the name satoshi na is that did he imply something earlier in his career before satoshi existed that he liked that name or was tied to that name there was no no there's no evidence on that the the evidence was basically the the combination of was that forum post the timing of both of their disappearance it's him you know when he's fifteen sixteen years old on the forums it's his kind of like the his spelling and a kind of his writing style even the way he kind of like pun where it's like the two two spaces after the period the o r things that are a lot of people do but they all they don't they do fit with this guy did hal right like satoshi no they've looked at like how code and then satoshi code but then you don't this is an answer for everything oh he's so brilliant he knew to modify the code into a different style right there's is an answer for everything and so could like all conspiracies it's it's sort of what you choose to believe or what you choose to not believe that's pretty hard like i i actually think that that that that like i because when i used to actually write in fake names like fake blog posts all the time and i remember trying to change how i was writing and i remember doing that and thinking this is really challenging everyone's gonna know this is me i used to write fake blog put like i had like pseudo n that i would just like fill my blog with and so that's like a pretty compelling actually piece of evidence if you ask me yeah and like i wanna be super clear i don't know the answer i'm not saying i believe this or i don't believe this i'm saying this is the most interesting theory on this most interesting new theory on satoshi right so there's been over the years has been many theories including the time when like i felt like the new yorker and your post or something like chased down that animation guy and was like it's him dorian and na this is the guy and he's like what he's like didn't know where he was and basically like had his life ruined for like forty eight hours you know there's there's been many theories over the years this might be just another hair brain theory but i would say it's the most interesting one in a few years to me and somebody who i'm just fascinated by the story i badly wanna know but i also i understand that it would be much better to never know for all of us to never know and for whoever it is you know like i think they had a great contribution to the world and you know their wish was to be anonymous i think that should be you know respected and i think whoever is satoshi is an extreme danger once they and once it does get out if it ever does get out it in terms of like the olympics or the hall fame of stories like jfk is like up in there the jfk assassination who did it and i think actually the story is on par with that do you know what i mean yeah exactly like the most you you use the word in talk it's like these rabbit holes that like just kinda make you wonder and you can't you keep going back to them you know aliens the certain assassination and then there's there's there's this one this like it kinda keeps me up at night to be honest and i don't even give a shit about bitcoin but i think that is just like i think that what it's rooted in potentially how one person had such an impact and was so brilliant i think that if you read american king pin about ross z ross had the same exact style where it was very romantic it was very i wanna get behind you like it's us versus the world like we are we were on a path to greatness like this whole that whole concept was ross had the exact same thing and even though he did a lot of really bad stuff you kinda wanna get behind it because you're like yeah that's just like that's just the price that we pay to be james bond like we kill bad guys and so like the steps ross might have been a bad guy you might have been the bad guy he he was like like he did a lot i i think that like you could do good things and bad things but i think he actually did i i think that he should be in jail for a long period of time because he tried to help breaking bad where you're you're rooting for walt even know though you're like wait i think this guy is now would drug king pan who's killing people but yeah our tony sop guy i like it's like tony sop like you wanna like tony but that you're like dude you suck like you're a bad husband and you kill people like the like this because you're funny it doesn't mean i should lick your own amazing person like can i can i make a one minute bitcoin case right now are you back i mean went my back i've been here no you haven't been here you you you haven't been here your interest has ebb been flowed from the topic oh my interest i have to focus there's no new information right like like the conviction has an ebb flows it's like how much new information is there to pay attention to it's and the say same that like i'm not like oh my god the internet is amazing like i i know the internet internet's amazing i made that decision a long time ago and i just used it you know like i just i'm in i'm my i've been in i've in right like versus when it first came out it's like every new thing is is new it wasn't very excited it was a very exciting period but yeah what's your one minute no i mean the one minute is this from the beginning with bitcoin there's always been these like the big risk the big question marks so once you once you sort of accept that there's merit to having a hard currency meaning having a currency that doesn't get inflated the way i'd look at is bitcoin of savings technology so people use people think bitcoin gonna make them rich actually the the true purpose of bitcoin is a store value meaning it's meant to keep you rich said i don't know if you ever seen the charts of like you know your if if you're great grandparent or whatever a hundred years ago had left you a you know a million dollar fortune it would be worth you know only three percent of what they left right it'd be worth thirty grand today and so just in a hundred years a hundred years in the united states at the targeted inflation or the actual inflation your money is going to be cut in half sort of every thirty years yeah if you left it in cash correct correct yeah the the currency itself i'm saying like you just said i i feel safer just with with the you what good old us dollar in the bank account you it's a bowl of ice cream that's melting by yeah sounds because on average roughly three percent a year it gets dev so i and then that's not a conspiracy theory that is the target inflation is two or three percent sometimes it's higher like it's been but like the the goal for them is to inflate it two or three percent a means which means by design two three percent a year means that in thirty years you're gonna have whatever half of what you understood so one generation okay so the if you want you believe that there's merit to just like well i'd rather save it's like i'd rather have a phone whose battery doesn't drain i'd rather save my money in a currency that is not designed to inflate and you might say well there's still a leap of faith which is will this be a thing currency only matters if a bunch of people believe in it whatever that's that's that's the only question space the is bitcoin even a currency of course i mean is a is the definition of a currency liquidity is it is it or not liquidity the ability this the like a lot of people spending it a better way of saying it is it's money so it's a money asset so it's a it's a form of money and it's a so more money has three jobs store value number one meaning i have to believe that if i go out and i work hard every day and i get paid in this thing that this thing is gonna be valuable tomorrow or the next day yeah requires just a collective buy in correct and that's the first stage then after after it's already accepted by many people as valuable like the way gold is accepted by many people as valuable then it can be used as a medium of exchange meaning then i'm willing to trade it back and forth with people because i know they believe it's valuable i believe it's valuable they're gonna believe it's gonna be valuable they know that the next guy they wanna spend with things gonna be valuable so once we all buy into it's valuable then it's usable after that as a medium movie change that part hasn't happened yet and then the final stages is once we're all using as a medium exchange we price things in it that's called the unit of account so those are the three phases of something becoming yeah a true you know useful currency today bitcoin is like is basically it's completing stage one where at this point the whole world agrees that it's valuable you know the bulk of the world and the majority has flipped to believe in that bitcoin is valuable okay you could see that in the price sixty thousand dollars you could see that in who owns it to individuals you know wealthy wealthy folks how many human beings own a one bitcoin or own it's some bitcoin i don't know the number of like active wallets now and the hard part is one person can have multiple wallets but it's like over a hundred million for sure it's like in the hundreds of millions okay well then i think it's a stretch to say that wanted system it's a stretch to say everyone agrees that it's what i mean is obviously not everybody so not eight billion people on earth own this eight ap people also don't own dollars right that that's not that's also not the case but for hundreds of millions of people to have active like have wallets with value in them is okay big that's i mean that's this that's a humongous number so anyways that's how the cursor works so the the the case for big one right now is over time there's always been two big risks so the first risk is the government's just gonna shut this down right the the the the smart guy case was look you might be right that this is better than gold you might be right that it's more secure than gold it's easier to transport than gold that it's it's the more programmable money like i get all that but look the government's not gonna go down without a fight their biggest strangle hold on power is that they own the guns and the money you can't take one of their two big powers away right they you you might they they'll still have the guns but if it's if you they lose their ability to control the money supply no government's gonna allow that and for a while it looked like that china tried to ban it and get try to ban it but bitcoin was pretty resilient and now you have in this election for example both of the candidates are pro crypto donald trump is very pro crypto and kamala has now realized she it is now political make be crazy which is insane it's in it's crazy they're both on the circuit that's why all the way they took you making at the bitcoin conference kamala stop saying she's gonna kill crypto well dude i talk to our we have a mutual friend who owns a a crypto related media business and he was like all these politicians wanna talk to me now it's it insane because they wanna speak at our events they wanna do all the stuff they need us now they they wanna participate they wanna be part of the conversation and i that's insane to me that i mean in a in a good way i think but that's like while that these people want that i mean trump has literally said in very trump fashion maybe maybe we'll maybe we'll do bitcoins and that'll pay the debt right he's like maybe we'll just buy some bitcoins and that'll pay everything off like kind of that odd which by the way honestly if the us government quietly accumulated a stockpile and then put their faith in it after that if they basically like they would be able to pump and dump pump and dump basically bitcoin themselves or at least pump even if they never wanted to dump meaning it would be a very well a very easy way for a legitimate country to get very wealthy by by using its institutional power in the world to validate bitcoin after they've created a stash anyways but besides all that the point is the government is now pro crypto they've now realized it is political suicide to be anti crypto because there's too many americans who have wealth things like forty million americans were actively on the like the petitions and all that shit to say like it's like a take a voter block right and if you say we're gonna either block this or ban this or this that means something to too many americans so now you can't politically be in a we're gonna shut down or kill crypto bitcoin specifically and so that's that's a huge thing that changed from like five eight years ago and i feel like nobody's really giving that nobody's pricing that in properly nobody's giving that enough credit that like one of the biggest risks that the us is never gonna go over this and now they're pro crypto that's that's crazy the second thing is you know there's all these clips of jamie dim and black rock and all these people just shitting on bitcoin and calling in you know the dumbest thing your idiot if you wanna go lose your money go do this and now they're the biggest custodian and the biggest salesman of of of bitcoin dude aren't so full of shit man it's just funny how i guess i mean everyone deserves the right to change their opinion once they get gather new information but there it really this is our very big so here's the consequences of that right like a week ago black rock released this presentation that they're giving about why bitcoin is better than gold and it's literally the same slides that they're like crypto ana we're using ten years ago it's like here's bitcoin compared to gold gold you can't trend you can't carry it easily you can't easily divide it gold not actually that scarcity you we can always find more bitcoin actually a fixed supply and so like all of the old the all arguments they're now on a road roadshow to wealthy people and to financial advisors so they're tracing training financial advisors and their clients that a healthy portfolio has one to five percent bitcoin in it and they're showing all these monte carlo simulations that like hey and if no era we run this over the last you know ten years like some bitcoin allocation no matter when you entered even whether it was peak or trough whatever has outperformed like the eighty twenty stock bond portfolio mix and all these other things so they're recommending it as now like the smart move the wise move to do and so they're on a road roadshow because they make a bunch of money they're incentivized to do this because they make a bunch of money right it's the fastest growing etf product in the world is bitcoin i think the beat bitcoin etfs are now like some insane number like what and what why do you need a bitcoin etf so the bitcoin etf is the one of the other big counter points was this is too complicated my mom my dad is never gonna go download a wallet off this thing and figure out their private key and they're gonna be afraid to lose it okay coinbase that's easier but like by they don't open up new accounts they just invest out their four or one k or whatever so the reason an etf matters is now every body who's got an account with whoever it is morgan stanley or you know fidelity or nationwide is so funny i just googled crypto etf or bitcoin etf and there's a website for fidelity it just says it's it's a it's a ad that fidelity is running to get me to click on and it's about their crypto on a fidelity it looks like life and control funny it's gonna look looks like all funny loving family like hugging and embracing the like our future this is like shit like that this is like walmart buying the supreme brand like do so the this is lame everybody is incentivized to do it meaning the president's are like y if we're pro crypto we unlock crypto donation dollars and this voting block so they're like alright politically we're now incentivized to do this black ro like y how much money can be made with this right there's sixty the the the etf has had like sixty one billion dollars put into management like in the last like you know you illegal for like six months or so pretty lame though right they get a one percent fee of doing it then they sell this as a product as an upsell to people now anybody in their retirement accounts and their stock trader accounts can push one button and own bitcoin without ever having to deal with custodian issues or the private keys or your wallet or losing your hard drive or any of that shit and so yes it's lame because it's not cool anymore meaning it's not cool and edgy and alt but the whole point was i it goes through this adoption phase right and that's going more matrix so i think what's the point is i cannot believe if somebody's been watching this thing for like probably at this point literally ten or eleven years but now like it was unfathomable ten years ago to be like not only would bitcoin be sixty thousand dollars of coin that would have already blown my mind ten years ago but on top of that the presidents are gonna be using this in their campaign but they're gonna say this is a good idea they're gonna talk talk about you know having a little bit of on the nation's balance sheet corporations are gonna own this thing black rock and larry fin and jamie diamond they're that's gonna be their hero product it's their hero sku now and that you're just gonna be able click a button and buy it as a as a etf like all of that is unbelievable to me and i feel like people really have not grasped how once you do that you can't unwind it so once everybody owns it in in their etf or their retirement accounts what are they gonna do you can't it's too embedded in the system at that point you can't like you can't rip it out it's tentacles are too deep dude listen to this so i this is kind of like indicative of where bitcoin was going kinda silly i this is a listen at i've mentioned i moved to a small town outside new york city in connecticut and my town is very much what you would picture of connecticut like the other day i went to like this fancy ralph lauren store and they're like where do you live and they're were like and i was like i live where these clothes were designed to be worn like where there's like literally polo fields at like my at like in my hood and there's a rowing club next to my house like you're on the i guess it's a river and you're like rowing like crew which growing at missouri and that's like the richest kid like y bullshit ever right but i was interested in it and i and i go to this rowing club to like see if i could like sign up for lessons and i see a bitcoin book in the lobby of a row club so a row club is basically leaders just i imagine a gym but instead of like just weights there's like areas to row whatever and i see a bitcoin book and i was like wait what the hell why is this bitcoin book here and then i start walking around and i see a cakes full of trophies of high school people who have graduated from the this row club but did well in high school in one championships whatever and there's a picture of these two guys who are eighteen and they're huge strapping looking dudes and i'm like you gotta be kidding me who are why do you have a picture of the wink v twins here and they go oh their father owns this place and when they were young and they were into rowing he built this row club so they could kind of have a place to go to and and i was like that's why you have the bitcoin book they go yeah they like i i i don't remember if they wrote the book or if it was written about them and you know they're the father's proud so he just has like their book and the lobby and i was like that is so funny and so this row club is founded by the wink boss father wink whatever and it's like doesn't it seem like they would totally call their dad father oh yeah yeah for sure i would have demand that my kids called me father because i feel like that's just like already like twenty five prestige points in life dude did i tell my little daughter whenever we facetime grandma i go that that that's your grandmother yeah that's wild that's so funny you you live the most crappy life now yeah you know what embrace it it's kinda fun i'm being honest it's kinda fun so i enjoy it but dude this bitcoin stuff i i i wouldn't say i'm i'm not exactly a hate of it but i love like poking holes in it because i think that's just a fun position to have with with this whole conversation but for this podcast i want it to be back i had so much fun hearing these stories i think it's like the stories in the drama regarding this whole community and this thing is so cool like all time great like just some do invented this shit some nerd in called the cyberpunk invented this thing and now fit fidelity is like you know however many tens of thousands employees and like the most amount of money in the world is all like rallying around this i think that is such an exciting story there's yet to be a great movie around this and i think it's too hard of a story to tell there needs to be like only a couple storylines lines for this movie but i'm really for something like that and frankly i i wanna go and read more books on the topic because every book i've read about bitcoin has been thrilling yeah yeah well it depends if you want the thriller or you want the theory right there's like no no i don't i don't want that no i just want like tell me about somebody who like died or a just sex death and war like you know like rub rebels doing shit that's what i want okay fair enough and you might like this documentary better i don't know we'll see it's actually the best the best one of that is there's a documentary about this business this business called quad did you ever watch this one no what's that it's the best murder mystery crazy like just insane bats shit crazy scam like movie about crypto oh is this the guy who died trust no one the guy was died in india and they're like dude do you fake your death and like the indian doctor the what we already talked about the indian doctor fake the autopsy well they don't know that's a that's a theory right so yeah it's called trust no one the hunt for the crypto king that's probably the most like thriller version of a crypto movie that i've seen dude i just watched this one about these kids from long island who like moved to miami and they came up with like some ico scam and they document this guy as he's telling his story but coincidentally he's also still on trial so you could see them him like going through trial and then eventually getting acquitted and we talked about this particular guy we're like he was posting pictures of his like his ads and his ferrari on his instagram and we're like dude if you have ads and perfect teeth and you're also in the crypto community you can't be trusted and like floyd may weather about these guys like back his shit and we we're like this is this is a a complete scam but he still walked away with potentially tens of millions of dollars and got away with it he didn't go to prison and so did you see that one i didn't see that one no the the the kind of the ico you know kids with lamb version of it i just hate them so much that it's such a turn i can't i can't bring turn off but when it's like this kind of ideological rebel person who you know like more like more for yeah like i need kinda like a maybe evil maybe genius we're it's hard to say is he just misunderstood or actually is he just playing all of us like that's really kind of like sweet spot for me with the crypto crime stuff like crypto basically have its own true crime like index right because there's been so many so many issues i don't like the like eighteen year old like tick tiktok tiktok n nfl yeah because that's just that's right scam and and and that story is so easy he art to that yeah but there's no yeah but like the sand with three free thing is is so interesting because not only is he like an and like it it's like he looks part but then he does doesn't it and he then he they he did something crazy but it's unclear why he did it because he actually had a business that would have made him a billionaire or many times over that was like the scan with f t x wasn't that the demand and the customers were fake he's a man of the customers were real it's just like he took the customer money and gamble on it you know used it for crazy donations to build power and to put in his hedge fund to like run up the run up the balance on that side who's was just a unnecessary risk and so the fascinating to think about that one is like why why did this guy even do that he didn't need to do that he won he had the real win and he snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in that case how about if i told you it three years ago when spf was still we still thought he was legit that him and did are in prison together like is that the craziest part of a events really like did an sv spf or like have ever told the the s the spf an story with mil road what happen you have they advertised with you and they were late to pay no no they weren't like to pay they we used to do something called deep dives which is basically like if one of our like sort of ad products was if you pay us a ton of money we will do a report on you but the catch was we're gonna do the report we actually wanna do like you don't get to say what we say in the report and with the f x it's like a no brainer they're like the richest player and there's a bunch of good things to say so it seemed like it was gonna be a win win and so they they do the they pay us a bunch of money or they they told us they're gonna pay us a bunch of money and then we go write the report in it in the report you know i'm trying to this was i think i was writing it myself or me and banner writing i don't remember exactly what the case was but i was involved with it and i remember we were thinking about looking like what's the devil's advocate like what doesn't smell right about this because you have to have the counter point and it not even just a rip on that but having a counter point makes acknowledging the counter point honestly makes the point stronger so even if we were trying to say like a positive thing which was that they were super fast growing and that this really like you know aggressive marketing strategy that was working like all that shit we're like what's the counter point and the counter point was like the guy we met who was like the chief security officer who was like twenty four years old our dot security a chief strategy officer who's twenty four years old and we're like wow that's so impressed like how does this kid become like chief strategy officer of this like at that time it's like a twenty billion dollar company yeah really stories going and so we're were we were like yeah actually like a lot of the they're like execs are kinda like young just like the france but okay facebook looked that way too you early on know okay interesting maybe a good thing maybe a bad thing and then we're like yeah it's unclear the like connection between alameda they're like hedge fund and f t and so we wrote that in were like one thing that's not clear is like what is the relationship between these two parties and where is there is there a firewall and there's some speculation that like you know it wasn't that alameda was just like the was just sip the money and giving to and then alameda was gambling and losing it it was that alameda had you know like inside or info and they were front running that's kind of what what people thought so we wrote that in like hey we need you to take that out we're like no we're not gonna take that out and they're like okay then just hold on this and we're like cool but you paid us already so you know do you wanna ever run this and then they just never replied again we're like okay they i think they paid us like half of the amount was it a large item i mean i don't know what it was not that not that large hey like in the grand scheme and not that large but like at the time for us we were startup it was like you know a great to have revenue and so that was awesome and so i remember that just being like checking in every few months like hey what like are you ready for us to release this yet or no and they're like no i'm we're okay didn't think too much of it moved on with my life and then sure enough that hey this connection is sort of unclear and you know there's some potential issues that turned out to be like it's like oh no that's stage four that turned out to be a very very big problem actually and is sb spf like in prison how how's he holding up is they still eating just peanut butter and that his whole thing like he only consumed peanut butter in prison because you twenty five years but i do think there was like there was i think he sent this in twenty five years but i don't i don't think he's gonna serve that whole time i don't know that the whole system works well no if you if you get for federal crimes you know a lot of like the a lot of people say like you get since twenty you know like do ten well for federal crimes i think the max amount it can ever get reduced is ten or fifteen percent i mean maybe ten percent so if you get sentenced to twenty years seven eighteen it's something like that it's like a fucking huge deal like this is like yeah this is not like and i think the prison he's at is like a it's it's it's big boy prison like this is not like particularly a fun thing right like there's this like idea of like a white color i i talked to i know a guy or a guy whose uncle got sentenced to a white collar crime and he served eighteen years and he was like he took he told me who would visit his uncle he was like yeah i mean it was when you say the word white collar crime you kind of think like it's c and like it was kind of that but like it's prison like bad and bad stuff to happen and like you're confined all all the time like get it's it's it's really bad and i don't think spf is is in that type of like prison anyway he's in like a real prison right like a prison for that yeah yeah do you have you ever watched just showed the night of no what's that oh dude amazing show i think it's on showtime time or hbo the night of it's it's an just awesome show and one of the things that really liked about is they showed almost like they showed the actual legal system at work and it's almost like painful to watch the whole legal and prison system as the story plays out but they don't fast forward the way a lot of movies and shows do is they kinda fast it's like there's the crime and then there's like the courtroom where it's like one lawyers giving one dramatic speech and the other lawyer's is giving another drive speech whereas this one it actually shows like the real deal holy field of of well we have the the first first hearing okay the appeal is gonna be in three months and he's back to jail for three months and he's waiting waiting waiting and just going through it and it's just extremely well made an awesome show to she it takes forever this stuff takes forever which like kinda bog my mind a little bit my wife and then and then you could push things for a long time so you remember elizabeth holmes when she got in trouble i think it was like many years after the actual stuff went down that the trial well she went maternity from prison remember she started to having babies and she just had two babies back to back and kept pushing it off that's what happens when you wear ralph lauren and looked like you're live in connecticut you you you could take maternity leave from from prison i think that's what the perks she should take advantage of that privilege we didn't mean to make this the bitcoin episode but an hour is flown by once you said the magic word i was in so i'm happy though it that it became that to be honest alright that's it that's a problem i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on a travel never looking back