David Senra: Podcasts With Billion-Dollar Potential, What Separates Good From Great, and More

i am probably the most optimistic person in terms of like how good biz of a business podcast podcasting can be and i start talking crazy and then i have some friends that i built giant businesses on the backup of podcast i was at dinner with them last week and they literally pulled me to the side and they're like shut the fuck stop telling people all this shit i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to from at all in and like a days on the road alright everyone today's podcast is special the guy's name is david sen he's got a podcast called founders i've listened to dozens and dozens and dozens of episodes he basically breaks down different biographies that he read about business people artists whatever anyone who's you know the one percent of the one percent of their field and on the pod today we talked about the difference between people who are like somewhat successful and the people who are absolute killers and what traits they have and what the commonalities so it's super fascinating to hear from someone who's read literally three or four hundred biographies and studies us for a living he talks about the commonalities of these killers whether that's u sea fighters or billionaires it's really fascinating i think you're gonna dig it my favorite part is when we talk about he has this really cool quote from joe rogan describing john jones who's just like amazing c fighter and the difference between like john and the rest of the people and then somehow david weaves that in with business people i mean lit list out all the business people who he says are the the one percent the one percent the killers of the killers and he talks about what traits they have and what you can learn i think you'll dig it check it out talk soon yeah you know it's i i understand why you live in miami if your family's there that i that's i don't love like new york but i'm eventually gonna move there for family so i the family pre you know super seeds all the other stuff that that's the only reason we say my wife is columbia so seventy percent of miami dade county hispanic all her families here like i've been traveling a lot more for work and like the day i leave my kids wake up her mom is here her grandmother's here so like from my kids perspective like colombian are they with south american general what they do is like they're very i like their multi generational like housing my wife grew up in a house connected to her grandparents house yeah i dig that too oh that's incredible like i had nothing like that when i was a kid and so i was like man i really wanna live in california but i'm just gonna stay here for family and then you know spend my summers in california what you do before founders pod i've done a so a shit ton of businesses like since i was like eighteen years old like think being knew around the same age agent i might be a few years old than you the business i was working on right before actually started founders while i was doing it was a thing called robo db which is a way to track the rigid the true origin points of robo calls to the payment network and it was just like a a business that was like kinda of like a clever hack but i wasn't interested in it the way i was podcasting so like i was obsessed with podcasting for for years i remember my friend eric invited move over to his house one time this like two thousand ten he's like dude you gotta come over and watch this new podcast do you remember the guy from from fear factor and i'm like yeah i watched fear factor when i was like high school and we went to his house and it's like when joe rogan was on like the white couch and he's was on like you stream and then he'd have like there'd be like things falling down he'd had have like you know the cheesy kind of like there'd be stars or sparkle and stuff like that i'm like what is this he's like oh you could also listen to it on your phone anytime you want and that just blew my fucking mind i couldn't not believe that yeah but where this were you successful or were were you kinda like a struggling entrepreneur and then this is like there is this your first like breakout this is the first thing that's gonna make like i'll make a lot more money i was like making like dentist or doctor money for like a long time you know like not struggling but not nearly like you know what a podcast could could do like a successful podcast could do how big the pod now in terms of listeners leadership it fucking crazy right now we a few weeks ago i just cracked over a hundred thousand individual listeners per episode no no overall like so when i sign into like my podcast it says like unique listeners last seven days that's the only i don't i'm not big on metrics like i don't pay attention at all i just try to make what i want and then put it out to the world but the one number i want to see grow is that number because founders is also weird dude like you could discover it now and because the back hell looks evergreen evergreen like i'll talk to people to listen to like the first the latest pre episodes and then they'll go back and listen to shit that i did like six years ago five years ago and it it's just you right like because you're part of what colossal is that it that's colossus colossus sorry mh and so they like sell your ads and they take a cut and so yep is it just you and a producer or what nothing just me so patch i i love we were talking a little bit about this yesterday like the one thing i love about podcast podcasting industry is how positive some everybody is so i listen to pat podcast patch podcast for years like i was taking those of this podcast i went back and look since like two thousand nineteen and last year in may my podcast is a subscription podcast right you could listen to the first thirty minutes you gonna listen to all of it for the first six years of it in its existence you had to pay to upgrade right i had no yeah what you wait oh i don't know you so you've been doing this for six years yeah starting in two thousand sixteen oh wow that's crazy i to to me like you just got on my radar like a year ago maybe everybody it was like that so patrick played played a big role in that the david and bad required they played a big role that was just under your part europe podcast but what happened was patrick just randomly tweeted it out you know he's got you know massive very valuable audience like can size in terms of size and then average net worth like he's got one of the most i would argue he's got the most valuable business podcast audience of the world right if you found if you keep if you like the fact the the average net worth of his audience is stream and he just randomly tweeted out like last may hey i never find new podcast podcasts to listen to i think david sent as founders podcast is excellent you should listen and i was like what the like i know you dude like i watch listen to your podcast like this is crazy and so i become friends with this guy named sam hi sam hi he's is the former general manager that's filled philadelphia seventy six now he's an investor in silicon alley and i knew he knew patrick and so i screenshot it that i was oh shit look what your friend patrick said and then sam immediately put me had a group chat with patrick and he's like too know each other and so patrick we the first time we talk we talked to like an hour and a half we had like the same interest for addicted podcast addicted the history addicted entrepreneurship also stuff and so we were just friends for a long time and then i had several people rob moore being one of them we should probably talk about yeah david had been before rob's been hooking me up constantly like i'll talk to him and well email back and forth he's always helping me okay so this is a positive some nature of podcasting i'm sorry those who don't know rob more rob moore and andrew hub men our partner our partners on the pod rob rob is the c cofounder of the human pocket so okay there is this is the interesting thing one of my favorite quotes i've read every single thing i could find on steve jobs right and one of my favorite quotes that really describe steve's one of his super superpower was that steve but was gifted at finding markets full of second rate products and what you what you guys realize i think as well it's like people all people have essentially like when you're inside podcasting the perception inside of is completely different than when it's outside it like everybody like there's too many of them it's too late to get in and like you need to start a long time ago and what happens is like everybody starts podcast guest quits right and when you get in there podcast in general are full of secondary products rob moore andrew hub and i put david and ben here as was like their first they have first class products and a first class approach to building their business so mh rob i've never talked to rob less than two hours every single time we talk he he look happened my desk like what's that oh rob that tweet yeah it's rob and andrew had been so relentless with supporting me for nope like they have no benefit right they just they keep like every time andrew tweets about me the fact that he was one of his favorite is founders he says we have the church just from his tweets and crazy right rob's like hey we had this new studio next time you're in california next time of california come out and like i'd love to give you tour and our mutual for andrew wilkinson headed invited me to victoria so i was i'm actually flying to victoria like next week that's a pain the ass to get you remind me i'll just stop in california for a few days to see you we i meet up with rob we talked robin la is robin la yeah yeah rob's malibu i met up with rob we talked pie podcasting for seven straight hours that's crazy literally we lead up to have lunch we stayed at the same spot they're like it's dinner and now we're like let's have dinner and then we stayed through the whole time and then he's like let's go to studio they are like to me i think not only least he in the size of his audience it's crazy if you break down and how they think about the quality of the product how they think what's quality of the business model like there's ideas i got from rob that i told andrew or i told ben and david that they're now using that's gonna wanna making them millions of dollars like the the way they set up their business their ads everything they're just fucking in first cost dudes are you i see that you're always tweeting out it looks like a screenshot from kindle how many books a month are you reading to to pull this off okay so i think this is being you were talking about the advantage i think you have at hampton which is really fucking special and it it's an echo of what bloomberg used to build his very unique business like your business is going to produce a lot of proprietary information extremely valuable to other founders and then you can repurpose them do you know what fucking people have had dinner with that tell me about the hampton blog and you guys just just launched oh really we i think just we just we just like i i threw it together like i think two weeks ago i heard about some guy doing concrete or some shit or or something he was like searching they told me he was like searching through like like war dogs yeah yeah like looking for the look through a database of government contracts and seeing him what he can fulfill yeah so what i realized is when i text you that or yesterday was i'm doing similar thing so i realized what and it this is the the magic of you said something was really smart where like rich people read a lot and it's very true our mutual for an wilkins just tweeted out like i wish i short entrepreneurs that don't read and that's what i found as well it's like not only if the people i studied like they had they were so good at what they did that somebody wrote a book about them like it's fucking crazy right and then you read their books and their constantly reading biography studying great work that came before them and so the bloomberg idea was like he his business is fundamentally it's like i wanna sell you like a twenty seven thousand dollar year subscription or whatever it is my biz his business collects a bunch of unique information and he made like a bunch of atomic piece of content sort a media company as a way to get his brand and so ninety percent of the people that read his media will never buy subscription but his media is spread around everywhere just like there's a ton of people that i gotta read your hampton blog you know obviously they think you should do a podcast if you do fucking short form whatever it's like that's gonna be spread out like that and then you know one percent five percent of those are gonna convert to members and like the more members you have the more data you have the more data you have the more members you have and just keeps going so change answer your question i just hit episode three hundred i've read over three hundred biographies of entrepreneurs far i have that's over a hundred thousand pages what i realized is like over time i had input all my highlights into this app called breed wise and so everything you see externally are just there essentially highlights that i like the one i i i posted yesterday we were talking about bloomberg bird and i was oh fuck let me go and read back through my highlights on blue bird and i found one where he said that like you know if you you should try to love what you do because you love what you do you do a lot and then you know that compounds everything and i put that out like immediately these hit and then people discover the podcast and they start listening it so me and you and bloomberg are kinda running the same idea but in you know different different industries or different like dude i use up until like i so two years ago up until two years ago i was reading a ton and then i so i like to listen to books i i like to listen i'll i'll listen i have one that i'm listening to and one of i read at night and i like to listen while i'm on walks and there's just one narrator who i love have you ever listened to titan or yeah van builds book ty he yep done narrator is awesome and so i was like i love this narrator he's so good so i went and found books just by that narrator and i started scrolling through and i'm like oh my god this guy's done fifteen hundred books or something like that that he's narrated and it's like how to win friends and influence and like all these like businesses self healthy books and then i go and look at as linkedin and i'm like he's reading all these books why is any more successful and i'm like i'm like that i done worse so i got angry so now i i now i i read mostly for fun and if i don't like something i i i i brush it off i put it away and so i i quit reading non fiction books now i strictly read biographies or history so your friend ryan holiday has a great post where he shared like his top twenty five biography affirmations and his the the the intro to that post is excellent because he's was like listen you go to the most successful people in the world look at their books shows they they read a lot of shit they all read biographies at all of them they're without exception it's like some of the most high value reading you can do you noticed that as you read through the biographies like they're all doing this now here's the thing this this actually clicked for me the other day you know eric jorge right yeah yeah yeah he helped neville evolve write the thing yep so he gave me this fantastic growth recommendation i had missed this why was getting peter bevel and he kinda it's book on buffett and mon it's called it's just all i wanna knows where die so i don't go there and there is something that buffett and mu are saying in that book that really click for me they kept saying like listen we're gonna share everything we know with you guys we know that most of you are just gonna listen or read it and never do it and what i thought about that for a long time i was oh so learning is not memorizing information like the guy you were just describing learning is changing your behavior if you don't change your behavior that you didn't actually learn and so therefore i'm not applying lessons as i'm learning in this book for my own business then that means i'm just wasting my whole fucking life because i'm i'm working on the seven days a week like i'm giving a lot of my better sheet to this and i think that's the important part it's like not just these people didn't just fucking read they took this idea like okay how can i apply it to my business and then they actually changed their fucking behavior which is like the key no i and i've done that a ton i mean i'll what my the reason i read biographies is i look for patterns that i say what mistake did this person make and how do avoid it and where did they win and how do i like lean in on that and then like the way that i kinda this sounds really lame but we make a joke that i'm i call myself a manifest cowboy because i'm a love the redneck neck but the reason being is i'm pretty good at like setting five year and ten year goals and staying focused and working backwards to achieve it and like i can like there's just one book but called how to get rich by felix dennis love them and like i i like list i was like alright what and he and he was he had cancer i believe or i don't know if he had a cancer when he wrote it but he died soon after and he was like if i could do it all over again i would try to be financially secured by age thirty five and then just cuts around and i was like okay let's do that and so like just work backwards to like how do you just like have like the bills handled and then everything else is just you know icing on the cake and so i'm pretty good at that but i when the last time you read it i read it all the time i i i would use it like a textbook so okay like when i think about like equity and how much to pay people i go and read the sections that he talks about so i have it if you just google how to get rich free pdf there's like a website that has it so i bought many copies and i have a bunch of his biographies but i'll just like refer to that all the constantly i'm like alright what did he say about this and he gives like pretty practical advice like on company credit cards like how do you your company credit cards like office space and so i refer back to it constantly andrew wilkinson said gave me advice he's like what he did he's like i read the book before i got rich and then you read it after you get really rich yeah i yeah i thought that was really great advice we so you and i are both fans yeah and i was asking you i was like what should we talk about and i was like i wanna talk about the difference between the people who are pretty good and absolute killers yeah and you were like oh that's just like in a u that's kind of the same way but i because i'm fascinated with like i listened to your i think i named sam bro the guy who started sea grounds which eventually turned into like all these other things and then i listen fucking savage he's a savage you know like he almost reminded me of myself not in the savage sense but he he did a few funny things he he was like a hermit and he like didn't go anywhere unless his wife went with them and i'm the same way i'm like i don't go out unless my wife comes up me because i have like some social anxiety a little bit and like but when it came to business he was like pretty bras and like told people exactly what he thought except like when it came to social situations he was like super not confrontational if i go to the grocery store and i don't see what i'm looking for i leave i don't ask you know what mean like i'm like dude i i i just don't even wanna ask for help i because it bothers me but anyway i listened to him and then i listened to napoleon that one was really good oh look at this book sorry sam alt said the best book he's read in the last few years is this one it's really hard to find it's first published nineteen fifty five is that a concise history one i can't see no no no i'm about i'm gonna do this in like two two probably two up episodes it's called the mind in napoleon and it's it's napoleon's is old fucking words and that's cool yeah so because you're gonna say everybody's up upset to the same open right now because of i didn't mean to interrupt you but napoleon's well napoleon had this amazing saying i forget heard it from you or or ben wilson but it was something like you he he was talking to someone he goes you and i are not the same i am born of a people of conqueror or something like that like he had this like like this he felt like he was just like i'm here to conquer get out of my way and he had that at a young age and i thought that was really insightful there is something that you picked up on where people it's it's fascinating how like you'll listen to founders you read a bunch biographies and you realize like the most successful people in the world you're like i don't i i don't want their life and that's the way i feel like sure out of like i i exact first all you said something is really part it's like people disc like manifestation or visualization and they think it's like like willie p nonsense okay that's fine i can just tell you pops up in the books over and over and over again i told you yesterday i'm reading this fucking insane biography tiger woods this dude is like eight years old listening to motivational tapes writing it out and on his wall it's like i am powerful i will cheat my goals like over and over and over again and you see this from edwin steve jobs est lau bob no founder of intel arnold shore have you read the education i wanna send you i was gonna ask you for your address to send you a book but i said he might have already read it did you ever read the education of a body builder i've heard about it i've never read it it the first hundred and thirteen pages is it functions as a as a auto of art when he's thirty and like the visualization thing seeing things and it like he said he's like he would lay in bed at night and just picture himself on the stage holding the trophy of the mister universe or whatever in his hand everybody's like essentially like bow downtown him he's a conqueror to use like that example what i find is that a lot of the people that they can felix dennis man i think his the advice he gave was wise like that guy had a hole in his heart that could never fill he spent a hundred million dollars in a decade ten million a year on cocaine alcohol prostitutes yeah you know like that's a fucking crazy story in that book and what i love about much first usually they write him and they're like they don't hide shit they're like i was fucked up i was a bad father i cheated on my wife i whatever you know so the the the tie this into like the u thing and and the like the conquering is that quote i like i am of the race that found empires is what it is so i i wanna read this quote that you and i i were discussing where i think joe rogan is obviously like the world the world's leading expert on you know mma like the stuff i wish i could talk to that guy just i hope i get got doc i hope i get a chance just to ask them i wouldn't i just wanna talk about m mma and all the shit in brain and i was very curious what was gonna happen with this john jones through to real gain fight right so for those who don't know john jones is this very controversial character at age like twenty two twenty three he was like the first fight sponsored by nike he was the golden boy he was the champion when he was twenty or something and he's just a killer never lost but he you know has hit his girlfriend before he's gotten arrested for drinking and driving he's a mess he's a killer on and off the field did you ever see the video of him where remember like during the the pandemic people were like lighting shit on fire there's all he's rights and they did it in albuquerque where he's at and he stopped him two yeah you saw that could you imagine if those two guys there's was two small guys like young kids like straight painting and van shit and john is just walking around of the give me the can give you the can give me the can like dude if you know who that is you'll give him the can something like continual john so is like six two probably well now he weighs two hundred sixty pounds i mean he's likes spent one of the scarier people you could ever see and he's athletic the guy's are freak he's a freak and but he comes off this is why this is interesting he he he tries to come off like a nice guy a lot of times in interviews and he and when you listen to him talk you think alright at least i think this is learned behavior and you are actually a little more soc than you are not and you will kill someone easily and sleep like a baby at night hundred so this is the the fascinating they was sitting history so this is what joe said about john which i think is gonna it reminds me like a young go gay which we can talk about he says joe joe like listen there's human beings to have a ruthless competitive drive that is terrifying to the ordinary person john jones is a bad guy who is trying to be a good guy if he were living a thousand years ago he'd be on a horse with a battle chopping the heads off of everyone and everyone would be running these dom have always existed he's is a fucking conquer that is the thing that's inside him that leads him to be the go greatest of all time without that you don't get there there's a thing inside of some people there's a driving force that allows them to overcome the greatest people around them when i heard that i was a thing about john jones was thinking like that's michael jordan that's jeff bezos that's a young bill gates that's edward land that's aren't john rockefeller that's carnegie that's all of them they had they have this ruthless competitive drive to me they're are different species than an average person and so the example of that is like i did this this excellent biography of a young gates right in my opinion the perfect biography it's like i don't need to know what their great grandfather living right it's like tell me the struggle the reason we're alert like give me a little background to what family they're born into then tell me the struggle and then once they're rich and the book and so there's a book called hard drive bill gates and the making and like stuff at empire that covers the first thirty five years of bill beats life right so ends right after the the microsoft ipo and i'm obsessed the reason i a solo podcast is because my podcast idol is dan carlin hardcore history right and is he by himself hundred percent he's got a giant audience we should actually talk about podcasting if you're interested in that he he a lot of people share numbers he had said it don't want me forget the threat i on the gates other the way he had said the latest episode this is like two years ago that got published he got nineteen million downloads on and then he said oh wait that he said oh wait it turns out some of them were double counted so it in any case cut it in half is nine he's out oh no it's a probably ten million people that listen to him that one of the biggest episodes of the year for most every podcast yes you know the big dogs get a million or one point five per episode but rarely you know joe ro if he interviewed like burn when he interviewed bernie sanders or someone like that that maybe got five or or eight or something like that so joe joe's audience and joe has more data than anybody else also an all of spotify exclusive host more data and anybody else says he said remember when they try to cancel him this is also the magic podcasting man which i know we don't like we we had to be careful because we talked about it forever the problem is like you you have people that don't if you listen to joe or you listen like listened to you and fucking sean forever i know even before we i like i know who you guys are no manifest cowboy i know the fucking terminology we have an idea of who you are like the person before you meet them right that's the magic podcasting it's like we're not creating content we're creating relationships at scale which is very fucking comparable and still on people most people don't they they underestimate me how powerful it is and so what happens like you have you know people saying joe racist you know they they they cut the clip and then you know he's backs everything else and so they try to cancel them and then somebody who listen to him for fucking ten years and listens to him ten hours a week because like you're not gonna tell me think about joe i don't know and so what happens is he said his audience added two million people i think we're from twelve million subscribers to fourteen million subscribers on spotify those are those numbers i've heard yeah and it speaks to like this he's still the biggest by far because even like the top you know humans everybody else like yours one point five without youtube and everything else so they're still just crazy how big and successful joe show is what about bill the like the bill so bill gates is i was doing an episode on him and i just been listening to dan carlin wrath of the con series on gang of khan for like the fifteenth time and doug gates not who you think he is like this is gang khan in a mister rogers costume he's in in disguise and he is unbelievably relentless so this is guy and name named michael morris who was now he's a billionaire he's one of the guys that helps scale sequoia but at this time he's just a journalist and it's a perfect example he's giving he's just a journalist think he's we're ready for time magazine and he's meeting bill you know bill's probably made twenty eight something like that they do an interview bill's was like hey i'll give you right to the airport they get in bill's car and michael was like oh shit somebody broke into your car what happened here he's like what do you tell me i goes your radio it's like somebody stole your radio hey he's like no i i ripped it out he said why would you do that he's like from my house to microsoft off office is seven minutes that's fourteen minutes a day from microsoft's office to the airport i go there three times a week that's fifteen minutes round trip you know thirty thirty minute or fifteen minutes away thirty minutes round trip he has this up so it's like two hours in the car and if i have a radio then i'd listened to it and then i'm spending two hours not thinking about myself and there's all these fucking crazy stories because somebody asked the other day like what's the largest bootstrap business of all time and paul graham answered microsoft and people were like oh they took vc no no they were printing money and they sold a million shares of microsoft for million dollars to a vc they did not need the money right before they went public to get expertise that was a bootstrap business the year before this is a nineteen eighty money the year reform microsoft ipo they did a hundred and forty million in revenue and thirty eight million profit that's saying right he it and then so this extreme john jones the serial game thing when you hear about how he thinks about his fucking competitors it's not just enough that he needs to win he's like have to fucking destroy you so there's a this spooky fucking the spooky story that's in what bill gates biography i've bread of them and bill would be able to tell you like in the software industry he's like i know the ceo of every single software company i know what the revenue was i know what their where the product is right now i know everything about them and so they they he had a bunch of like friend of he's like i wanted destroy you but he would talk to you and a lot of them were getting customers at these in early days of like these these software conventions which is very like very new and so the guy philippe khan that he was trying to book destroy he he literally wants to put out a business because he's he told his employees he's like if i if we lose a fifty thousand dollar contract that's not fifty thousand that's a hundred thousand because we lost fifty and our fucking enemy got a hun got fifty so you just called me a hundred thousand she was like that psychotic about it and so goes over sees bill sitting by himself in like a foldable chair just looking at something philippe blocks up to him and he goes say hi to bill and he realizes what bill's looking at he's looking at a picture of philippe khan he's in public in a fucking corner of a convention center staring at a fucking picture of his enemy like the what joe said about john a thousand years ago we lived at a zero sum if you wanna build wealth would you do like you you took their land or took their refill somebody else congress yeah so a thousand years ago that personality type bill gates would have been leak you would have been in a hole he would have been leading an army it just so happens that this same personality type that has that exists today has existed forever will exist for forever in the future can run companies and build wells and when you when you study the personalities of these people it's like they're all like that thank god we are living a free market economy earl else there'd be they'd be pill and raping and and doing everything else well that's why my favorite era of american history is like eighteen ninety so that's thirty or twenty years after the civil war so we're america's kinda getting back to it up until like nineteen twenty because in nineteen twenty like the sherman act which was the anti monopoly act started coming about and then the scc was invented and so between like eighteen ninety and nineteen twenty america was really the wild west where we had some technology you know we had cars we had i think phones were coming about telegraph so we could railroads we could and the stock market what existed so we could like make wealth but there was a few things that you could do so for example andrew carnegie and who's his partner f like henry clay f yeah like when people would when the union workers would boycott and protest they killed them like they they hired a a private police team and they went a private arm and and they literally beat like ten of them to death and i don't think anything happened i don't know if anything happened no because they also own the politicians yeah and it was wild and then like there was a time where jpmorgan loaned the us government money and and then there was a time a lot of people don't know this but jfk john john kennedy the president his father joe kennedy was like the seventh richest man in america at one point he got rich from insider trading then after he was already rich he created or he was the first head of the sec that made insider trading illegal like it was like hardcore cro capitalism that's one of the reasons why i like reading about john rockefeller is because of all the things he did he was dishonest once or twice but for the most part he was a ruthless competitor and he didn't lie and he was honest other than one big time he lied but besides that he was pretty straight and how crazy was it that his employees never he they like he never we never heard him raise his voice and he never said an un kind word to us now these competitors different story he's completely boosts us with them but inside of his you're not gonna find anybody that worked inside of standard oil and then obviously they they hid all the things they owned there's is actually an idea i stole from rock by the way his competitors he wasn't really i mean he was ruthless but he would go to them he goes hey i'd like to buy you this is a very fair price come and join me and i'll make you rich of which many did and they got rich and he said if you don't join me i'm gonna destroy you so let me know if and so to me that's like he's like look we can work together or i'm gonna end you you can pick but he wasn't like necessarily like rude about it yeah so i the one thing he said was so badass he was trying to buy somebody out there they were resisted he's like i have ways to make money that you know nothing about he was bet i always say like there's a there's a very common theme that common themes are repair in his entrepreneurship and so i have maxim for a bunch of these like my favorite one is is cra to take pain it's just like you're not gonna achieve large success without being able to tolerate paint for extended periods of time right another one is bad boys moving in silence like they find an advantage and they shut up about it this is what steve jobs realized when he was built trying to build pixar he's just like we can't get any fucking data on how profitable he's just are transitioning for selling hardware to just pure animate like trying to build the first computer animated movie and steve jobs like i don't get why like we can't get any information on this and then he realized he's like oh the reason that you can't go to library and check out a book that says like the business model of animation is because there's only one company ever did it well and it's disney and they don't want anybody else to know how lucrative it is and so he realized that because they had they made like snow white like sixty years before and writing when he's doing negotiations with pixar and disney they re released it and we're selling like v dhs tapes and i think that they might have had dvds at this point and they're like wait a minute you sold twenty eight million copies of a movie you made sixty years ago that's all profit and they made two a said they made a quarter billion of profit on that one movie releasing it for the new technology and so i actually took an idea from johnny rockefeller rob moore plays a role in this is like what what rockefeller would do is like he had the secret allies right and so he entered into an industry where he thought was very disorganized and so he wind up building relationships and allies with all all the people in the oil remember the oil business when he jumps in not what we think soil he he was like he was a fire he was selling ke for fucking like lighting and stuff he he made he we actually made more money in retirement because after he retired he still owned a shit ton of equity go back felix dennis and then the of the core and so now like oh this this my my stocks even worth more but what he you do is he'd go around and he'd organize all the other people in the industry so like i did this with bunch podcast broadcasters like me and you just start doing this like texting about this it's just like you just share information like you build secret allies and you just say hey this guy figured out this for your podcast you should use it and like everybody in the podcast industry is extremely positive some i listened to your your interview with brandon shaw he said the same thing about he's like joe told us we have an obligation to help each other out and so for business podcast is like they're all kinda like satellites and like loosely defined and so me and patrick have been going around building relationships to people and just sharing information like oh i was at to acquire guy's house it's san francisco weeks together other they're like we get patrick they have one of the most profitable the ben and david who are fantastic i'm actually wearing their merch right now they have one of the most profitable podcasts and compared to audience sites so how much they make and they're like well patrick told us that we weren't charging enough so we tripled our prices then we and then we still sold ads and then we tripled them again and then it's like holy shit he was right and so that idea is was like we're no gate keeping just share information and try to help people as much as possible that's an idea for rockefeller when you read about some of these killers do you think they are different than me or do you start becoming that like do you think that just surrounding yourself with them is gonna change your behavior or is it just like aliens exist and i am not them no here's the thing we i don't know if we recording i i like how you guys should jump right in by the way so i don't i think most part our discussion was caught on the recording but i am very glad that i have a wife and two kids up and down like here's here's my thing it's like the the thing that i don't like in it's very present all these books is like if you're an adult your job to figure it out and like that let people take a advantage of right so if like john rockefeller gives you a bad price and for your business you accept that's on you what i'm you hear us on the podcast like i'm induced the state of rage when people fuck with kids i can't stand and so up and down my family tree like i a person to graduate high school and my family much less college i'm the first male in my three generations not to go to jail right and so like up and down both sides of my family tree i just see a lot of like like terrible parenting and this is not necessarily my parents they did the best they can because consider both sets of their parents for shitty people but like i saw drug boot abuse i saw sexual abuse i saw people going to jail cocaine all this crazy shit right and so i was like if i'm gonna have kids i'm not gonna be a shit father and i think the fact that i have a kid and a wife that like when we get along really well it saves me from not i think if i didn't have that i would literally work from the time i eyes open in the morning till the time they close and i would just fucking like i think the scary part is like i and try to compare myself to you know you can't compare myself to rock frozen but like i have a little bit that in me too and i think i hear from a ton of people listen they're like i think like that too the whole thing is like learning from their experience like hey but they get to in their life they're not necessarily happy you know like so i don't want that i don't wanna destroy everything around me because it i chased professional success but i think men in general you know type a aggressive men like that's what successful people super people are chris like they're not normal humans and it's probably one to five percent the population that are borderline soc homeopathic you know nothing motor people that's that's a little extreme but like they're willing to do whatever they can if you get in their way and so i i'm i've been lucky that as we've it it's it's funny that i as we've i've got more popular for like content and business shit a lot of people in different fields who i previously looked up to like for example lance i'm armstrong or someone like that they'll like message me and i'll get an opportunity to hang out with them and this isn't about lance but this is i've been lucky that it's been a bunch of different people and i'll go and hang out with them a couple of times and then i think i don't wanna be around you ever again like and so like i i don't enjoy being around them and so i've had a bunch of people who if you told me when i was twelve that these people wanna talk to me i'd be like that is sick now i just i'm just like i don't like being around you it's actually not enjoyable being around some of these people because it feels like well i don't know exactly how it feels like like it feels like we we're in a pissing match when we're when we're with each other yeah i simply don't enjoy it and so now i've have i have a rule in my household which is no new friends so i default whenever i talk to someone i default too i'm not gonna be friends until it's like alright maybe after a while we we can we can we can cross the threshold but by default it's i don't trust you and i'm not gonna let you in whereas before it was like oh anyone who wants to holler at me yeah i'm in and then i go and hang out with some of these baller and these killers and i think oh this is this is a very enjoyable hang you know there's a bunch of people who maybe ben might know who we're talking about but there's like a couple people that are like some of the most famous and successful people in the world and we've been lucky to hang out with and then we'll go hang with them after the pod and i'm like oh this is just miserable i don't wanna be around you at all and so my point being is for the to to what what you said about the most successful people being crazy not only are they crazy i don't wanna be around it's not fun they're not fun to be around and so you really see that there's a price to pay which is you are in the one percentile or ninety nine percentile of this of these other traits which usually not always means you're gonna be lacking in a handful of other traits and sometimes that's like whatever the traits are of you wanted to be near someone i guess like physically and hanging out with someone that that's why the everybody's like okay like are you doing it all this or you you wanna run like the next apple like what are you doing this for and i'm like no like adam the three hundred people that i've study the the person that i wanna be the most like is the the closest person that i've studied and read about that has kind of mastering life is gonna at door right and so it's a p this this is a fucking crazy story so it's substitute episode two twenty two and the crazy thing is like usually that's episode title is just the book i read right this says my personal blueprint right and because what he did is like first all he's et is one he was a guy that made the first quantitative hedge fund right the reason i liked him is because what i think you were talking about earlier like you have buried interests right where you need a balance because i've also heard you speak enough where i'm like okay he's clearly type a and driven and like if you didn't have your wife or you didn't have these other things i could also see you go and not so traumatic but like you know no limit to kinda empire you wanna build you have a chip on her shoulders it's like all of them i do too so i see that at thor essentially like what he did is like he made a ton of money as a quantitative investor right but once he had more money like he didn't need to worry about money anymore he refused to trade time to make more money because he understood he's like more money not gonna make me happy but by time is limit he was a good father he was a good husband he was he followed his own intellectual interests like he he had fun he there tim ferris just interviewed him and i would highly recommend going to youtube but just type in tim ferris at door look at that guy's picture and tell me how old you think he is i've done this a bunch i did with my wife like how do you think he she's said i don't no sixty five he's fucking ninety because he learned when he was really young that physical fitness was really important and so he gave me the best heuristic for health he goes i view every hour in the gym as one less day i'll spend in the hospital at the end of my life and the guy still do like c he looks fucking fantastic right he's like no i he's it might be like ninety two and so this whole balance of like your friend ryan holiday actually i i learned this from him his content was like what it means to be a competitive human we've known that forever we just get distracted it's like you want work that has meaning you want good relationships you wanna have fun and you wanna make sure that your body's healthy you should feel good that's it there isn't anything else i love what you just said because the same thing when you have a successful podcast you get hit up on all kinds of fucking crazy experiences which is actually you know huge benefit but it's like man i'm not gonna build a thousand relationships that are like an inch deep i just talked to the same people over and over and over and over again it's like you have a limited amount of people you could actually be friends with and yet we're all connected so like we're hugely distracted was like okay i'm not smart as a door he's me so i'll just fucking copy blueprint i'll write that down i'll be a good father i'll be a good husband i'll take care of my health i'll have work that i'm really fucking obsessed with but i put guard rules on right and like i'm not going to keep trading money or time which i'm we're gonna run out of for more money when i'm i'm not even spending the money i have i wanna i wanna ask you some more questions about history but a story really quick i i have a friend who's forty low forty worth a billion dollars has a publicly traded company and he was telling me the story about how he was had this phrase called it's never enough and he was telling me a story about how he went to one guy's home who was worth fifty million and the guy complaining about how he lives in this fancy neighborhood and he can't his home is his six million dollar home is less good than or is worse than the other people in the neighborhood then he's like went to another guy who's worth like half a billion and he was saying like yeah but you know what i don't have a super yacht and then there was another guy who had like one or two billion and this guy was complaining he's like can't get a sports team though it's it's not enough and so yeah i don't wanna be people i i think you hit it don't be like i don't wanna be own people like that it's never enough and that's what i've also learned because like i've thought that when i've hit certain points i'm like well i won't want anymore it's you always want more and it's a very challenging thing it doesn't have to be that way though i had the advantage because like this is the crazy thing about my podcast podcasts you just said like you never know who's listening sitting so i got invited to have to hour lunch with sam z right and that's fucking crazy it came inbound sam had listened to the podcast i made on his and he's like i wanna meet that guy so sam sam sells is a real estate guy he's got a great book called am i being loud enough or am being subtle alright am i being subtle off yeah am being subtle enough he's he's probably close to ninety now he's kinda one he's kinda got this blue collar ish vibe about them but he's worth probably five or ten billion dollars something like that he owned all these real estate things he created the reit i think then he like owned sc bicycles he owned the la times i think or the tribune and something like that he he's he's like a a ty he so you're and you'd fucking love them so he's eighty one years old he sold his his real estate company for thirty billion to black ro or blacks stone i don't fucking know you know they're all being the same and so you know who the fuck how how often do you get to meet somebody that sells are coming for forty billion dollars and i couldn't believe it's was gonna happen i thought i was like like this doesn't really gonna happened i like it's gonna be like a launch of i'm invited to and it's was like like twenty people there like go he sat eye to eye for two fucking hours and he's not like that you want the reason i i got back after that lunch and i told my wife i go i want that i want that i wanna be eighty one years old completely still unbelievably curious about the world around him still doing deals doesn't give a fuck he's not one of these like media trade guys right the only wears is blue jeans i think he invented he he takes stuff it addicted credits like i invented vicious casual i'm like sam i don't know if you invented this schedule was fucking of layers that you would say that you invented business casual will not wear us to still ride a motorcycle still i think smokes weed let's he's fucking crazy but the thing the the advice that he gave me he's like david he's like the richard you get you what you realize is one he goes you'd be shocked to how many rich guys i know that aren't having fun is describing exactly what you're saying you go to their house and they're talking about other people or what other people i have i'd run the other fucking way sam didn't talk about goes was listen he goes money he's like there's very few true lux and like the richer he got he's like then i just kept just buying nicer of the same shit so i'd buy house and i gave richard buy no house like this is fucking stupid so he's like i basically own nothing he has a place in chicago and he has a compound in malibu that's his words by the way because he's like i have compound of malibu he's like just he's like the advice gave me over and everything he said five or six times over two hours it's like optimized for freedom if you get freedom you get to choose what you do and then you have fun and if you have fun you'd be really good at and the money will come but do not give up your freedom for money which so many rich dudes do it's fucking crazy and then he goes one thing he's like none of the shit matters i could buy everything i want he goes i rent a bunch of shit which reminded me of you because i know you fucking hate owning a house and like renting yeah he's like don't own a bunch of shit just rent it when you need it like and like because if you own it you got to take care but this is advice from fucking the guy that you know obviously on assets he was by he's still buying a ton of businesses the day before i saw him he he's like he dude he's was eighty when he's just his eyes little he's like i just spent three hundred million dollars buying seventy five percent of this company makes fifty million a year or some shit like he just loves the deal he's like i'm gonna be doing deals so i die just because he likes the game he's like he treats it like a game but he's like there's only one true luxury in life he goes try to get the private jet money really what the other what was it like meeting charlie mu so that was fucking crazy too and again because like andrew and his partner chris it was fascinating because i heard your podcast where you guys had met chris and spent time with them and i got to have the the the the few hours before we had dinner trailer among i had like a super long lunch one on one with chris and that dude is fascinating i wonder if he'd ever come on your podcast are you gonna hang with tonight i wanna be with them tonight okay yeah like you should yeah i know he's more private he's another guy where i think he knows like one of the things i love about chris he's wicked smart but one of the things i thought was so cool is like he showed me his calendar when we had lunch he's like look at my calendars like every day at three o'clock i'm picking my i think it's a son his son up from school like he's not going to be you know he's like obviously rich successful we'll continue to be more rich and more successful as he he carries on but he's not doing it at the detriment of being a shitty dad which like i admire a lot i fucking hate shitty ads so what was mu like he he was he was present so mu was he has this line where he's like oh i didn't succeed in life because of intelligence to succeeded because of a long contentious fan definitely has a long attention van but that dude has way smarter me like if anybody even even at ninety eight or what hell is he ninety five so he's ninety nine anybody is gonna have some level of cognitive the client at ninety nine and so all i could think about is like if that is who it is at ninety nine imagine trying to compete with that dude thirty years ago what was this house i i had to be careful because i got into a little bit of like they want me to keep some of this up private so like i can't answer that question was it fancy was it what was it as you'd expect which is no he very very very nice no he lit he's very authentic he if you read mu and talk about mu he's like hey don't have a lot of silly needs in your life his whole thing is like i i truly believe that he just wanted to show what he could do with his a brain so he could make a ton of money with his mind because he's really smart he like where's like you know he flannel in your in your picture i think like channel from amazon so the costco like his one of say entrepreneurs jim senegal lot i love a lot too and one of say companies jim s are it's costco because of that costco could've have made more money but pass the the benefit of their group buying onto the customer and so charlie is who he says he is it's like he's not doesn't fancy watch doesn't fancy clothes he just buys books as far as i can tell and talks interesting people and makes a ton of money but he's not in it for the money he just wanna he's in he says he's like i didn't don't want the ferraris i one the independents who all that you've so besides ed thor who all have you who have you listened to or spoken about that you think is like in your top five people of like they will conquer the world if given the chance like they are they are the the the the top they are the one percent of the one percent i mean i i think the selection here is that every single person is in the top know point zero zero or one percent because you're only the only to get on founders you have to live somewhere most somebody would've to book about it what i would say is like i just got done reading james dyson auto for the fourth time and it is my number one book recognition by far for french entrepreneurs mirrors and he's ridden two auto the second one is fine there's nothing wrong with that hey i'm with the first one because the first one he writes after fourteen years of struggle like what i admire so much about this guy is like he's not necessarily like conquer in the sense like he's gonna go around i know that he'd be like an napoleon in other times but what i love is like my favorite reduction nurse or very adamant about what they wanna do a life and how they wanna run their business it's not formulaic me they're not going around asking people to advice like do you think i should do what is my product look like what is how the business like no i have a very set mindset of like how i wanna build the product how i wanna build my business how i to to like spend my time you know what want that i i call that they bend reality to their to their will you know they kick their dent in the universe that's what i always call that i'm like they know what they want and they bent reality to fit what they wanted re read that did you read his auto in a weekend it'll fucking blow your mind because it's like why is this guy not quitting well what is what is happening here he's barring he's got two mortgages on every single house he's got these crying at the end of night everything is gonna be successful and he just won't quit and what happens is like you fast forward now james dyson is seventy five years old he owns a hundred percent of dyson company he's like you know one that company probably worth twenty billion dollars it makes supposedly you know a couple billion a year for profit for his family that like they take out of the company what i love is he the the company he owned before dyson vacuum him so it was this thing called a ball which looks like wheelbarrow with a a ball at the front and he goes and rents does a photo shoot for the ball at this like massive mistake that has been in in england for like three hundred years twenty five years later or you buy it it's like this is my shit now i think like i i've talked to a lot of people who love that book one thing that one thing so i remember like when i've just got started in my career i was like firmly in the in the field of like i'm gonna pull myself up from my bootstrap and i'm gonna i'm gonna make this into existence and then i remember when we were selling our company and everything got done and that was the first time in my life where i thought luck is so important and even though i i think i'm a badass ass and that i would and and i think that i could will myself to a very i think i could will myself to a really nice amount of success but in order to have the uber success which we'll describe as like liquid hundreds of millions of dollars there's lots of people who are these types of killers who do have these attribute attributes but one or two things both in their control and out of their control went wrong or right and that can absolutely change things like it could be like like you know john rockefeller didn't know that a car was gonna be invented or like with with zuckerberg like he would have kicked ass no matter what but it just so happened that like the phone came out and that like has helped a ton or you know someone like with you know i'm sure we've seen a lot of fortunes get traded during a pandemic like luck is real like when we sold our company and that was my first big win the ceo brian got into a nearly fatal accident afterwards and i'm like dude if that happens like four weeks prior i don't know if this would have gone through and i still think i will be very successful but imagine if i was selling my company for a billion or two billion dollars and the ceo of the buyer got killed or quit do you think that with these guys luck is real of course you you said something great on the acquired podcast you're like i've met a lot of these guys is like they're twenty times richard but they're not twenty times smarter yeah and a lot of you rockefeller is great example right like so the best way i described is like moderate level success like you know you could probably get to tens of millions of dollars in net worth that's like playing poker right so was like that's a skill said you can get but like two like jeff bezos like the funny thing i had dinner last night with two founders so it's like do you guys know the jeff bezos is private jet has a private jet like he takes off and there's another one like that level of shit like there's so many things that gotta break the idea like he knew he's gonna have a second private jet i'd love to ask them i don't know like so you know how that this is like people track private jets now some youtuber made a video and they noticed that every time just plain maybe it's like to people put it as one on his plane i don't look know well like there's a jet that follows his other jet around and like it's somebody put all this together from public information so that level of success like he knew okay the internet growing we the everything store was a code name in the hedge fund he for amazon they they were gonna activate it in the hedge he he's working for david shaw a billionaire hedge guy in new york so what you news is like we can sell books and then he also knew we can sell all those things look likely but he didn't know like he could aws like there was no like all that stuff that happens rockefeller is a great example bezos when he pitched the first investors he goes i think this gonna make a hundred million dollars a year for lucky yeah he he he he took him fifty meetings for venture capitalists to get his first million dollars and he said the most common question was asked is what is the internet dude yeah he's he's a fuck he is the closest to me bezos reminds me so much color like if you read bezos his shareholder letters are excellent because he's he's telling you what do he just like the the arnold books that i recommend earlier arnold says this is my blueprint this is when we're do he calls a shot and then he goes and does it bezos is the same thing but the rockefeller the twenty times richard but not twenty times smarter thing i think it's obviously you're talking about randomness you're talking about luck rockefeller was gonna be sick up no matter what like the the business he was in as you know it's like he was they were wholesale like produce and other stuff right were just traders and one thing that he did that think goes really smart is like he's work he's like nineteen his old working for two founders he's he's just an employee he goes back and read all of their books goes back in studies their entire company history memorize all the finances everything and then knew more about the business and the founder study like that kind of personality is gonna win wherever he's gonna go now he could stayed in that business and made millions of dollars is he gonna build the arguably the most successful company of all time if it wasn't for the the random discovery of oil no like he didn't control the fact that he was in the what i was say in the podcast is it's like you find these people at the right right person rights set of skills at the right place at right time if you're missing any of those you're not gonna build you know trillion dollar company or you know two hundred billion dollar or two hundred billion dollar network you need things to break for you that are outside of your what do you think you're gonna do next like where you know where what's your blueprint for ten years okay so this is where i start talking reckless because i am probably the most optimistic person in terms of like how good biz of a business podcast podcasting can be and i start talking crazy and then i have some friends that i built giant businesses on the backup of podcast i was at dinner with them last week and they literally pulled me to the side they're like shut the fuck stop telling people all the shit so what's an example of a great business box on the back of a box i'll tell you i can i'll tell you off i can't like there's a there's okay there's there's one that i don't have any to knowledge on i can give you an example of that because there's some that have intimate knowledge so i i'm not sure what i know like to be public and i don't but like butcher box bootstrap five hundred million dollars of revenue largely expanded from podcasting and there's a ton of those industry they're new buying podcast ads yes got it yes and then look at this is something i actually learned on your podcast which i think you guys did an excellent job with was when you guys were talking about how unilever lover came and bought on it right yeah yeah i didn't i didn't know that happened i knew about on it and knew about joe i i knew he owned like thirty percent rumored to be owned thirty percent of the company but think about like joe has a ton of ad slots just that one ad slot that he randomly put in he probably added just on the ad slot don't know seventy five million dollars like depending on what the actual purchase price was joke so this idea is like i start talking shit where like people like everybody knows because of mister beast saying like oh yeah there's gonna be i could see why there's gonna be like some billionaire youtubers right like that i think that is obvious now given where mister beast highly likely that dude unless he dies he's gonna hit that point is it's like that's the the the the the deep relationship people have a podcast is not comparable to the relationship that with youtubers is not at all comparable and this is not at all new what like what anything that what are you mean doing people are deeply are more my they they like podcast podcasts there's more like there's more affinity it's so do you know blake robbins from he's a benchmark no he has okay so he'd be actually interested something interested doctor he's the one that getting the spectrum idea he's helped bay i what's the what's the professional call duty team hundred thieves or forty thieves oh yeah yeah yeah i know i know you they went from zero to like eighty million of revenue i think like eighteen months or some shit like this so hr was developed an audience on you know twitch streaming and so so blake has a spectrum and this comes to you like there's people out there that have heard you and sean talk way more than they've heard their best friend's voice there's a time yeah because when they when they put the headphones in it's just us and them and it's usually for fifty or an hour minutes you know sixty minutes at a time whereas a youtube video it's you maybe eight i've heard you talk for a hundred hours like so like we've text exchange investors line but never talk at person i was like oh i know no same like i know what he's into we have the same interest like i think we'll be able to talk about a shit a bunch shit right so his whole point is like on the spectrum was like how much do pete how much time do people spend with you he's like on the bar end all these are left is like tiktok dancers answers right tiktok dancers answers you know they may have millions of millions of followers but they spent thirty seconds and if they try to like sell tickets they can't even fill a room with like three thousand people even if there's dow you know millions followers on the far end of the spectrum all these to the right is twitch streamers people spend literally forty hours a week with their favorite trish streamer right or thirty hours week or twenty hours he goes david podcast podcasts you you're just one one one step towards left because there's gonna be people who have listened to you speed for hundreds of hours right and that para social relationship is unbelievably deep and comprehensive to like you saw that i saw them people had said that you're doing a public meetup up i think in austin right and or a show and there's people flying in from fucking dubai yeah it's crazy right okay so so think about that like they're not flying in into dubai to watch like a tiktok dance answer they're not flying in and your podcast is technically here business you have all this other stuff you could do was like how many brands do people identify so much at the file across the world i just did this i'm introverted as fuck right yeah you see mike it yeah so yeah right you seem like it one one yeah but on one zero one but with groups i hate it so shane paris from knowledge project sheet was in miami he's like dude let's do a public meetup up i'm like oh fuck and i agree just because he's did it how many people came like seventy like i think it runs like seventy people came it's awkward right it's not awkward i i don't think i do it again but like this is the thing like i the only thing i did to promote it shane was supposed to set it out to his newsletter i never did thanks shane but i just made like this one minute i i was like in like five days for the vendor or something i i uploaded to my podcast i was hey you have to be miami area we're gonna do this here's where we're gonna be and like i'm like alright there's no like my audience is in like you know california new york there's like miami not like the spot for it people flew out from new york washington dc drove for hours and i'm like what do you in tell for like this i'm like why what what are you talking about and so it's this deep level relationship so here's your question like my ten year plan is just like i'm gonna be making podcasts till i fucking die i love doing it it's the best job in the world i think sean tweeted out something that he's like podcasting is the best job in the world like you get to be curious to learn all the time and then you package up what you learn and you send it out to the world in all this good benefit comes back to you you know relationships and investment opportunities businesses you can launch whatever cases is and so i'm just gonna run the same playbook that like rockefeller is like right now you scale with ads people pay a very hard dollar amount because your audience is valuable yeah and thank you for for promoting hampton on your part of that that was more than my first car buddy for free i what i appreciate not hey i look hopefully you get more hopefully you get more than enough value no that's that's that's a perfect example i did it you wouldn't you didn't have to ask me to do that because i got so much value from you the weird thing that you probably experienced too that pete this is people do the you have a podcast you can't if you're not on this side you don't understand a listener does not understand the shit that like why every single person you talked to that podcast has successful podcast is like i'm never fucking not gonna quit like i'm never not gonna do this thing is it's like magic and so when what else i do i think hampton first all is a great idea because entrepreneurs have to be around other entrepreneurs like we do not think like anybody else you go up you're gonna have i you said you're you're gonna have a family once you started having kids you go to these birthday parties and then you're back into your outside of your bubble and now you're in like random distribution of people and every time i'm like where's the where's the screen in the room and it's on untreated i gotta leave like you have to be around them program has that great line he's like ambitious people are starve to be around other ambitious people if you put them together they bloom like dying plants with water which is exactly what you doing with hampton the funny thing is like oh thanks for i like no thank you for making your fucking podcast i sit every day i get messages like thank you for doing i was like dude if you didn't listen like i get to read books for a living i need to be thanking you so that's the power podcast so the answer your question is like i'm gonna vertically integrate well what what's does that mean like product by by next year at this time like you're not gonna be no one's gonna be able buy an add adult downer right so and this is the the crazy thing about having a podcast so like you have all you you hit on it you're like super successful people will read all the time they also listen to business podcast all the time and you were able to build a relationships with them we're like i just met like you when you said when i talked to chris and andrew i was like you guys can advertise for as long as you want but eventually like what you i think ideally is like find a business so you guys buy businesses for a living you hire managers for a living like we'll partner up on distribution as opposed to like just doing an ad you have people like patrick o's from invest like the best you're like literally saying hey whether we have to buy a company we scale it or we inc incubator a company like basically he's like we need to found we need to find founder version of ts right and what does that mean this is something that i think is public so i don't think we're getting in trouble with for saying this i've heard about this you know don't i can say it so you can you don't get in trouble want got ahead so this is just rumors so here let me tell you the rumors that i heard so this company in and you could let me know so this way you won't get trouble for revealing anything ti is a company where i think what they do is if you wanted to talk to an expert you pay the money and they connect you with an expert but they record all the conversations transcribe him and so instead of paying money to talk to an expert you could just read the transcriptions they had with any other deal experts whatever i heard that they advertised on patrick o's podcast and he saw how good it was going and he goes screw this i want some type of equity and i'll i'll invest a little bit but i wanna add a sweetheart deal and it was a sweetheart deal and he continued setting them tons of customers to the point where his equity whole holding in the company has been worth is worth tens of millions of dollars is that roughly accurate so i don't know the prices i know he he says this publicly he put twenty million into his company he's got a giant fund too my point is like i don't know the valuations i i'm sure if i ask patrick he would tell me but you know it's none of my business my point is that like okay michael el who's a c cofounder of ti the ceo and a fucking savage like he is he is like the guys we study right i was we we talk i was talking to him more time and he was just telling me like oh like what do you do like he decompress like you're in a like he's building an an incredibly valuable company and he's got like and he's completely dedicated to it it him and his brother both ran track brown so like they lost stress by like running like phil knight did in nike and then you ask him and he's like oh so like how much she works he's like oh i take time off like i think saturday mornings off i like that's said oh it's saturday so he's on it i love his intensity but he said he's just like one at one podcast they only advertised they had the their first two customers from like you know word miles of their network but you know the first probably fifty to sixty million dollars of revenue whatever it is like patrick podcast podcasts because of who's in his audience help them scale and as a result like then there's a just a release there's a million that you could so in patrick case he's running a fun like you can do equity i'm not an investor but you said the other day when you're talking to kim grew you were interviewing like you don't like investing in in people's companies like you wanna like build your own shit i'm yeah investing doesn't entirely give me a dopamine me rush like i i'm i'm in the game for adventure and that and i'm searching like like a little bit of a rush and yeah i find it to be very it's so boring you give someone money and you don't hear from them for six years i'm the same way i'm i'm like i'm not interested i get so much deal flow like hey do wanna angel us i'm like no like why i would just like do my own shit and people say i'm stupid i'm doing that and they have to understand like i'm not also running my life to maximize for most dollars mate like that doesn't make any like it we talked about learning is not just memorizing information change behavior how many fucking times you get to these super rich people that do things they don't like for money and then get money and they wonder why they're not happy anymore all that matters is how you spend your time so what's what's gonna be your t though what's gonna be your product know what that that's the thing is like we i was having conversation with two founders about this site the the good thing is is like i we have some ideas obviously like we'll share that when time comes but like i have all these really smart social people that like the podcast that wanna help you know like andrew chris tiny i just met with their e i think they have more than one but i just had a conversation with their e patrick trying to help the guy that connect me with sam z he's got like twenty billion dollars of assets under management he's just like well we can fucking buy company but we can do whatever you want you know he's also has the best to some companies to scale up podcasting so he understands his power and he just likes the product so the point being is like that's where i'm going but i'm not doing it for money i'm doing it because i'm completely obsessed podcasting i think it's a miracle like when i say i start talking to you shit about i guess i'm podcast podcasting it's fucking it's to me it's like the printing press for the spoken word it's like as big a revolution as gut fucking printing press and it's just like it's on demand audio that you can educate yourself anytime you want all over the world that's fucking crazy it didn't exist when you and i were kids it didn't exist i had to fucking i i remember like being obsessed with talk radio and just having to listen to whatever was on the three or four dials at the time it was on and then they go from that to like streaming it in the browser i remember when that happened i was a fucking grown manners was oh this is amazing and then when my friend eric's like oh no you can listen to joe's podcast anytime you wanna like what the fuck did you just say what the fuck did you just say that's crazy and to think about that like if somebody like this is a young kid so mean need you both know michael si who's michael future oh oh our future yeah dude he's in my phone as michael future and i never referred to him as si his last name never i was like who's seeking i don't i look nothing correctly dude he's at my house his he's at my house like twice a week and i just call michael future i it's crazy i love how arrogant had a guy in my wedding and i didn't i barely even knew how to say i didn't even know his last day i just i just call them c russia i love michael's confidence and my point being is like imagine being you know twenty twenty because he he would call dm both me and you and yeah he he's really good at it he sent me dm he's like hey love your podcast it took an idea that i got for your podcast made a video about it and it got ten million views can we talk i go you did what what the fuck it's you talk it's in a possible message not to dude it i always he's out the house all the time and like i'm not old i'm thirty three but he he's twenty three i mean whatever he's first college he'll come yeah young and he'll come over and me and sarah will be like michael just tell me what's what are the young kids doing nowadays and he'll literally just sit there for two hours and just tell sarah and i like all these phrases and words and i'm just i'll just listen don't even say a thing i just say just talk just tell me like what's up with young people and he's like he'll just tell me and and and i'll ask him about his dating life just talk and so i always tried it sounds always weird whenever it is i i always try to sell surround myself with young like younger people and i'm like just tell me just wanna listen just tell me what's going on and he always sells to me he's like you you treat it what time he said i'm like oh are you gonna be doing in ten years ago come i'm i'm gonna landing my helicopter on your lawn or something like i love his confidence because like you at the time said he goes got some really bad news today just got back from the chiropractor they said that the chip on my shoulders permanent this he's booked he actually gave me a really good bit book record she texted me yesterday that i never had found it's like all these like i'm which one the ones that i'm obsessed with the the history of american west and like all that personality type that's like oh no fuck the east coast i'm gonna go across and do this crazy it the one request philip ans sc or ant the guy who owns with the biggest ticketing company in the world or something it's called like a w e whatever it is it's like yeah one that every everyone knows i think they own ticket master i think something like that was makers and the coachella he says i don't know if that's true but it's i don't where the west begins yeah and they own coachella anyway this guy philip up a lot of people don't know this and only has ten reviews on amazon this eighty year old twenty billion dollar guy he has a book about the west yeah and i'm i already ordered it the the reason i brought michael though is because one i think it's smart to be like i i think we have a an epidemic of people that don't believe themselves people think we have an epidemic arrogance i i play the fleet opposite like there's so many more people that can create businesses like a best description of a what a business came from richard branson that i ever heard came from richard branson and he goes a business is just an idea that makes somebody else's life better and if you look at it from there like there's limitless opportunity and so to to have the belief that you can do that something you that pops up these books all times that belief comes before building but society wants you to show me that you're you like show prove that you should have your confidence deserve like no you don't under understand like a the belief comes before you and that's why a lot of people we're like amongst my entrepreneurial friends they watched the billy mc fire festival documentary and they were like yeah he did the wrong things but it almost worked and the reason why like a lot of my entrepreneurial friends were like were like forgiving of him was it's like yeah but i've been there i've faked it until i made it type of vibe and like because i remember i this from my conferences too i would kinda f i tell these fifteen speakers individually the other fourteen had already confirmed which they hadn't and luckily i got them all to confirm and it worked out so it wasn't end it didn't end up being a lie but there's like so many examples where i promised something that wasn't real where i'm like oh shit i got a whole can deliver on these things you know that that happens a lot the the the point i was making with michael though is imagine being his age right and being able to listen to every single episode of my first spelling every single episode of founders or what are how how to take over the world we gotta get ben a shot out because fucking i think what he's doing is incredible and like perfect example like dude you should just make as many minneapolis us as possible because like you have missed you have sam saying your shit is really good right which is fucking incredible and you have mister beast literally the biggest creator on the bucket internet saying only listen to one podcast so i hope that like lights a fire under or ben as well but like just see a built like i would kill i would have fucking killed that's why i think podcasting a miracle i don't wanna to do anything else let's say i never launched any businesses to ensure your tenure plan which i i i i don't see how it's even possible because there's a ton of entrepreneurs i know that like wanna partner on these things but even if i just made podcasts and i just continue to grow the audience and i just made money on ad like whatever i fucking that's that's plenty fine for me that's the the way i like to live my life do you ever read do you ever heard of chuck eager chuck is that think i broke the somber yes so the fucking crazy thing is the the miracle books is like you never know like when you're gonna read some random sentence that you never for everyone loves that guy's book all business people love his book so i didn't know who the fuck he was i kept noticing this this old guy on twitter in a in a pilot suit talking hell a shit like unfiltered and i fucking love these people that like really talk who they are they're authentic and i i read his book i turns out he fucking it sold like five million copies the first year came on the eighties like it's one of the most successful auto log of all time well he was famous back then when he did yeah i he broke the sound barrier is that right or so he broke two or something he was the first pilot to break the sound barrier and i think he was the first pilot to become ace in a day in world war two he's like i love killing nazis he says he's like one of my favorite things to do is kill nazis and so yeah he would there's a great line his book where he's like from this like this is what i also love it's like great can come anywhere he lived in like this rural what's the area in in west virginia it's like a appalachian where there's like a yeah yeah so he lived like the app appalachian completely like isolated right and so he describes the way he described in this book about killing all these nazis he he shot down fight to become an ace on a day at to shoot out five and planes and he goes the nazis came up into the skies and they met a goddamn west virginia bus hall just the way he described himself but he gave me another blueprint let me see if i get a quote exactly right this is a magic having read wise too because i can just think of something and pulled up immediately it's like a giant search engine for everything read and he gave me this idea where it's like it's how you and i should avoid where you just subscribe you you get around all these rich guys they never it's never enough they don't seem to be enjoying life which is what's the point of being rich at that point they it seems to be surprising to them that they're not enjoying life because so they don't actually like what they do day today but they make a ton of money so why the fuck elephant fuck could you take one thirty of your life it's gonna be spent working right you you hate what you do you think how is it possible you think you're gonna get you any of your life like your life is impossible and so he says he goes i wasn't a deep sophisticated person but i live by a basic principle i did only what i enjoy and here's the part he's i wouldn't let anyone derail me by promises of power or money into doing things that weren't interesting to me and so it took me years isn't that funny how that's like business people say pilots say it doesn't matter like people a lot of people who like talk to the they they ask me what my pod is if it's all about business i'm like not really because like i don't give a shit if you're an artist as long as you're like kicking ass and you like defined what successes and you've achieved it i think that's i think that's dope it's all the same personality type just applied to different things like i could show you i don't know if you seen the camera but like this is one of my favorite dudes he's my his name's ernest shack i love reading about polar explorers i like about athletes i like that book i've read it in probably three years endurance yeah yeah it's excellent i love i'm gonna make a sure and i might sell it but i i'll just make it for myself with that fucking picture where he's just like covered in snow and looking like shit and i loved the fact that he came up with this el motto buy endurance we conquer he's just like we're just gonna win because we're never gonna quit and i think that could be applied to everything that you fucking do assuming that you like to do it but yeah i i think chuck yours is smart where like so many people buying to this this i feel prestige is a myth right where they're like i'm gonna go do this i'm gonna do activity x because it'll give me prestige and what prestige is you think other people are thinking about you and no one is thinking about you you like humans are self absorbed that is our human nature like think about the person you i listen to your aerial h hawaii interview your i love you're your a big fan of is how much of your life is spent thinking about you're huge fan you buy all shit so stuff less than two tenths of one million percent of your life right i wish people understood is how few people are thinking about them and therefore you wouldn't chase prestige prestige doesn't like all the matters is like the people around you do they do do they think you're a good person do they approve what you're doing and then your work all that really matters is like your own opinion right the ben texted me the other day about an idea for his podcast and i was like dude because he's like he added music ben do you care if i say this okay so ben added music he's like do think of about and i was like i don't love it and i don't hate it i don't care about it at all i just thought her episode it was fantastic it was excellent i shared it with friends but i was like he's like well the the the reviews are mix so you go i saw it i went to the tweets since like some people like this is great some people like this is bad exactly fucking exactly all the matters is what you like if you like the music and they don't then let me go find another fucking podcast listed did his music though on that first on his on how to think over the world that's the best intro song yeah that that intro song has helped make make his podcast popular the u like that going back to the thing that that connected us too like go like i know you have but like everybody out there needs to go talk about manifest cowboy connor mac mcgregor is that he is literally in the documentary the fact that heath was had somebody film him when he was flat rope living in his moms he owed money to every single fucking agency in ireland and he's like i'm gonna be fucking world champion one day he's like literally manifesting the shit remember when he got the double belts and he's like he joe's interviewer and know and he's like i saw this in my mind he goes oh look at that he's like i dream he's like i literally saw it and i fucking made it real yeah that's why i people like them that documentary is fucking incredible it's a chris he called his shot like this just ruins if i do it he ruins if by doing all the other dumb stuff though but it certainly he's he's he's he's a lot i have he's i have love hate relationship with them where it's like you've got all this amazing stuff i'd admire you so much and i also can't stand some of this other behavior you know what i mean i think that's where your wisdom is he's like okay i i stole my company like i'm rich richest fuck you're still like you have a massive advantage like you can launch businesses you were work working whatever you work on but you're realizing is like but i also like take care of my health i wanna spend time with my wife i wanna have a family i wanna like be able to like have freedom i heard you describe like what's important to you and this is like yeah that's that's high feel too because like it's my issue is like i'm not impressed by somebody successful for year five years ten years it's like i like people that fucking never fucked it up and there's a great line charlie mug it's like it's not getting rich that you have to worry about it's staying sane he's like it's not part in this in a book it's not normal to human nature to have unlimited resources or be so much rich richer and then not fuck it up through he's he he says through ladies leverage and liquor it's usually how rich man go broke does i said yeah well in his book he didn't say it in person but what point of being is like i think there's a sense of wisdom there where it's like okay i already have this how do i keep building on it people like connor and and kanye west is in this example too it's like they're gifted at a young age and then their their superstar success is so dis disoriented that like again it's not getting rich richer you get to worry about staying sane they weren't able to stay sane wanna stay sane dude i'm gonna get to them my life when i trying to make decisions like when i'm eighty years old it my like i knew for a fact part of the reason i i i felt comfortable like jump all in on the podcast even though didn't know if i was gonna make it success or not was that when jeff bezos is like well i was making a ton of money he's his hedge headphone i was thirty years old had apartment on the upper west side best friends with a billionaire who's like mentoring me like he's already set for life right but he's like i knew if i quit now and for go my quarterly bonus and move across the country seattle i'm gotta to sell books on the internet he's just like i feel that the internet is a life changing technology and i wanna play a role in that technology and the thirty year old self you can confuse yourself but like oh it's not as prestigious is working at a hedge fund it i'm gonna miss out on you know couple million dollar bonus whatever it is he's like your eighty five year old self is gonna be like you had a shot to play a little on internet and you did do it that's how i feel about podcasting is this like i believe it's a miracle i wanna play a role and therefore like i wanna get to in my like i know eighty was like and david i'm glad you fucking risked it i'm doing you did that i'm happy you came on here you're you're very fascinating to me i've listened to dozens of your episodes i'm very eager to see what you become i think it's cool i didn't know that you're doing it for six years i know that i've listened to like episode like number ten as well as like three hundred so i guess it should done the math like congratulations on your success it seems like you're kicking ass it seems like you're in the groove and like it's really cool to see someone like it's really fun to see someone like right when it's happening and that's like kind of the cool thing about podcasting and like twitter and all this stuff is like you can catch stuff in the middle not before and not after but as it's happening that's where you are right now and i appreciate you doing this where what do you what do you promote just founders i call founders pod it's a founders podcast founders to twitter your founders just always tweeting good shit i wanna say thank you for having me on like seriously i love your fucking podcast i would just say that one thing that podcast like it's obvious who has the magic and i've been telling people way before i ever fucking message was like you need to watch what sam shot are doing it's clear they have the magic they have insane chemistry i remember listened to you guys were and like i'm only getting sixty thousand downloads an episode which still super impressive and now you guys are fucking blu right past that it's extremely obvious that you guys are really good at it i hope you like do a a ton it i swear and i know you're not might not be interested this but like there's a there's a massive hole in podcasting for like the pat pat mca version of business i agree and i thank you and shaw you and sean like like dude there is going to be a business podcast where you have back if gets paid like thirty million a year by whatever his presenting sponsors is whatever like i forgot what is dan le got that fifty million dollar contract from like draft kings you see spotify gave l alex cooper twenty million a year that the reported number for joe rogan is way bigger that's reported but my point being is like there's a gap in the fucking business podcast space which i think you and sean have the best way to like if you did it every day just like you did like your hour show is a perfect length the research the it feels like you're hanging out with your smart friends and you guys are brainstorming together there's nothing else that's like what you guys are fucking doing hey spotify if you're listening i'm i'm i'm easy to contact you you just dm me on twitter i appreciate you're talk thanks i appreciate you inviting me on was fucking super cool with you i appreciate you doing this and yeah it means a lot and yeah it was awesome that pod that's the pod yeah i feel like i could rule the world i know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a days on on a road less travel never looking back