Business Breakdown Duel & The Story of Nike's Sonny Vaccaro

i'm gonna blow your mind ready so scotland you know scotland you've heard of that country scotland right you've heard of that place familiar land of k and sheep but also red heads but okay and red heads but it's also home to one of the coolest saas businesses that i've ever heard of so it's called petroleum exports they it's known as pet tags i feel like i could rude where to i know i could be what i want to all like days let's jump it we got a bunch of stuff today we're gonna do what's called a business breakdown dual sean and i and that us do is that a western deal i guess is we both did a business breakdown and we didn't know that the other one was gonna do it and so now we're gonna compare i'm gonna go first which gives you the advantage because the person who goes last always usually wins in rat battles because that's it's always like when you you know like when they do you know when they do the applause or like person a person b for the b always wins i get to hear you say your thing and then i can make fun of what you said yeah so anyway you're gonna you get the advantage but that's okay so i'll go first okay but before i go first i gotta give a shout to andrew lynch from net income it's a subs stack it's where i i found this particular business and i'm and i'm stealing a lot of his numbers but i'm gonna blow your mind ready so scotland you know scotland you've heard of that country scotland right you've heard of that place familiar land of k and sheep but also i think there's sheep there i don't actually know that's how little i know about scotland but also red heads but okay and red heads but it's also home to one of the coolest saas businesses that i've ever heard of so it's called petroleum exports they it's known as pet tax pat tax it's a challenging name i know and it's a highly technical specialist software crucial for oil and gas operations you can go to p t e x dot com to check it out so pull that up but pet pet it's a highly technical specialist software that's the backbone of some of the most important operations in the oil and gas industry and it sounds boring and that's because it is however they last year they made seventy eight million pounds in revenue which is about a hundred million dollars usd and on that hundred million dollars in revenue about sixty seven million of it was profit and of that of that profit they basically took out all the money so they paid a dividend of forty one million pounds which is about sixty million dollars and that was paid to the owner and it wasn't even retained to the company which means for every dollar they took about fifty two dollars went directly to the or fifty two cents went directly to the owners pocket now here's the cool part none of this is rumors this isn't hearsay i'm not like telling you i heard a story because in the uk if you're a privately held company that hits a certain threshold in revenue you have to submit your reports and you could just log in it's called companies house so you can just go there and you could log in and you could see all this information and so i went and looked at many many many years of their data and i'm gonna tell you a story about how this company came to be so it was started by this guy named we're gonna call him a his name's abe his name he's he's a muslim guy it was very very very challenging first and last name can you see his name can you tell me how to pronounce that do you how to pronounce that a abdul ham is the first name and the last name but it's very challenging there's a d and there's a j together that's a very challenging oh so you are calling him abe or he goes by abe i'm calling him abe his last name is if you're look at it i've met many muslim abe but we're gonna call me his last name has a d and a j next to each other i don't even know how to pronounce that sound so i'm sorry hey what he's it's a very challenging name to pronounce so he started the company in nineteen ninety it was based in a a aberdeen scotland which basically like a hover oil industry it's kind of like similar to what houston in america is and the company originally served as a petroleum consultants for in a consultant to the control petroleum industry as well as retailers and they would create these mathematical models to help people in the in the oil and gas industry manage their projects and so today they've kind of pivoted from consulting to providing software they only have four hundred and twenty customers in their core product is composed of complex complex products which are complex features that with descriptions like a multi phase network modeling and optimization and thorough thermodynamics fluid characterization package so pretty complicated stuff so as i said they started as a consulting business and they did have done seventy eight million pounds in revenue last year which is about a hundred million usd fifty eight million usd in profit and fifty million in dividends meaning the company doesn't require much capital act so they made all this profit and most all of it fifty eight million profit fifty million came out of the business and went directly to the owner's pockets and he's been doing this for years and years and years their biggest expense is employees so because they're based on the uk they pay uk software engineer salaries which are lower than the us making their average all in costs per each employee which they have eighty six of them only a hundred and one thousand pounds per year so the which means that they are doing nine hundred and eleven pounds nine hundred nine hundred eleven thousand pounds in revenue per employee so nine x nine x basically roi per per person that they hire so yeah this company absolutely kills it and i wanna tell you when i was analyzing this company and if you look up andrew lynch his subs stack he does a really good job of explaining the technical details of the company wanna explain some of the entrepreneurial takeaways that i had so if you go to the top link sean in na doc right at the beginning of the story you'll see the subs stack where you can it's his andrew lynch has a thing called net income and that's where i discovered this so i wanna tell you some of my takeaways takeaway one focus plus time that's what this guy did so everyone talks about focus but what does focus means you basically in my opinion need to focus enough to turn your idea into a machine and then after that i think you can deviate some attention away from that if you want but the company needs focus and that focus took takes time so i went back and i looked at a lot of their revenue and so did andrew so if you score down sean you'll see a graph of the revenue and what you'll notice is that it took them fifteen years to get to ten million dollars in revenue ten million pounds right remember i'm gonna call it dollars of ten million dollars in revenue and i know a lot of people i think maybe you have done this with one of your businesses got to close to ten million in revenue and like one point five or one or two years actually and so fifteen years particularly in like the tech internet space it feels horribly long but i think that's okay that's the right feeling and so what i try to do something i've been thinking about for a while is i ask myself in ten or twenty years will why i'd be happy if i started this today and that's a really good quote but that answer is incredibly murky more often than not sometimes it's like a i think yes it's a very murky thing and there's this famous story about jeff bezos when he start amazon he has this thing called the regret mineral framework where grace says this story about he's like well even though we had this good job i decided to start amazon because in eighty years when i made or when i'm eighty years old well i be proud that i started it today the answer was yes but in that same story he also said that he thought at most amazon could make is a hundred million dollars a year so he he not like he had the full picture so it was like yeah i think this can work and so went talked to da who's the founder da shah the founder of hubspot i also talked to kip who is the cmo and kip joined hubspot in year five i asked kip how big do you think hubspot could be what he joined you know how big did he thinks so hubspot today is worth twenty five billion dollars when i asked him he said i thought it could hit a billion dollars in in valuation is a little bit of a stretch but i thought we could do a billion dollars in valuation meaning like what's that eighty million in revenue i i don't know how that something like and then i asked da mesh i go how big do you think he could get he goes really i didn't have any idea but i knew that all i wanted was a thousand customers who would each pay two hundred fifty dollars which by the way this is only three million dollars year in revenue and i thought that would be a pretty cool milestone and so the reason isn't all we or the outcome isn't always clear up is this worth it now the reason this is important is because the biggest pain in business is not just failing but it's failing slowly and spending like a decade working on something and wasting your the most non renewable resource there is time wasting that time and i mean it's significantly worse i think than losing millions of dollars a year in one or two years that i'm quitting and so that's where the it's kind of an art it's a skill it's an into issue it's talent that's where all this stuff comes the plates so tactically what does this mean ben franklin said a small leak will sink a great ship warren buffett said so you'll find yourself in a chronically leaky boat energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks so the point being only work on shit as long as your boat ain't leaking as long as you don't got any holes in that boat but here's the thing every early stage company yeah everything's leaky at first so i went back to da mesh and back to kit and i go guys tell me about this hubspot right now your guys net revenue retention i don't know what it is exactly but i think it's like a hundred and five percent meaning for every dollar that someone spends at hubspot now the next year they're gonna spend a dollar and five cents and he said a in chip and kip they they said a few things so i'm gonna mix it up a little bit but or i'm gonna kinda interchange with what what they said but i believe it was kip who said our churn at first was terrible it was beyond bad at one point we are losing thirty percent of customers on an annual base on an annual basis and then ask da mesh i go was your guys churn really that bad he goes yeah it it it was definitely really bad it it took about five years in order to like get it to where it was a good place and i said well what did you do to fix that and he said our goal was not to make customers happy was to make happy customers meaning everything from our branding pitch marketing sales service everything should be thought out in a process where the outcome was a happy customer and that meant was everyone's job marketing needs to be reaching better fit customers who are less likely to churn sales need did not sales shouldn't overs sell and make sure they only qualify that these customers will likely succeed which helps reduces churn products needs to make sure they don't just build new features but build a feature that reduces churn and have to make these features make sure these features get adopted and churn is churn reduction is a team sport you also have to remember there's a power law which is ninety percent of stickiness will be driven by ten percent of the product and company features and not to add a hundred features and and instead just find ones that work and double down on those so the point being all ships are leaky at first but hopefully you could figure out a way to do it and last but not least my takeaway ten dollars a month it's rarely gonna feed a bunch of hungry mouths so our listeners including you and i sometimes i do this as well i had a twenty five dollar a month product a lot of times what we do is we look for arbitrage or we look for like small little hacks that's neat that's all cool and all every once in a while it gives you that dopamine hit but this company the reason i like it is you know how much they charge per year three hundred thousand dollars a year for a license to their company they only have four hundred fifty clients and andrew in his subs sec article he says something great he was imagine you're running an oil rig that attracts hundreds of thousands a barrels of oil per day brent crude is currently crude is generally trading at seventy five dollars per barrel so every hundred barrel is seventy five dollar seventy five hundred dollars in revenue your it guy comes up you and says boss tax just raised their prices by ten percent i think we could save three thousand dollars annual if we switch switched thought software providers to another thorough dynamic fluid characterization package instead you tell him to piss off don't touch a thing just make sure nothing breaks a easily three thousand dollars is nothing in the grand scheme of a huge capital intense business so they put their price up ten percent and everyone movies moves on and and goes on before because look it helps them solve their business so or it helps them solve problems in their business that makes their business better so this is my breakdown of this company i love it i love this company i love these scottish guys jonathan giving me a clap do you think about this one yeah jonathan if you like that one yeah that was you you kinda touched it all you got the opening story it was impacted and then the three big takeaways at the end and that like q and a with kids and dark mesh was a nice touch yeah that was that was a good touch i like how you brett that in the there was a a bit of a spelling and pronunciation challenge at the beginning but you overcame that and i'm proud of you for doing that you know what i say i so i went a speech class when i was a kid by the way and i always used to tell people i just got a big tongue my tongue real thick i got think a tongue so people hard big tongue yeah i got i got fat thug a pad see i give it a a fat tongue it's just it's like a it's like a it's like a snail in there it's like a a slug i got a slug of a of a tongue and i got molasses in my mouth i don't know what to say it's hard for me to say some words sometimes it's like to further away from saint louis a person gets or a company gets like the harder it is to explain them that's interesting you know i i guess two these on mine right now i bet there's opportunity to create like another pet basically which is with machine learning and ai you could go into these kind of like old school big dollar type companies and be like hey look we have the ability to process your data or to give you insights that's gonna save you money like yeah a ten percent efficiency gain twenty percent efficiency gains and i bet that these opportunities you know have existed but the the more powerful ml and a get the more of those opportunities open up and the bottleneck is people who even understand what problems exist inside of you know some shale gas company or inside of exxon mob and then being able to go sell into them there was a guy who i met verily on when i was doing my startup didn't really know any other entrepreneurs because was one guy who also went to duke and i wonder what happened to him i haven't kept in touch but i think his name was evan anderson and he was building a company that was selling to i was thought oz yeah this this is exactly right let's see what happened with this company so it was selling to companies that were in oklahoma so i was like well we you you moved to oklahoma and he was like yeah this where my customers are and i was who's your customers and it was like all the oil and gas companies that that are in america and what he was doing at that time was basically quote unquote big data big data for oil and gas and i was like that's a great idea looking at it now he's still there see fourteen years later so i've got this company been been pretty successful and i was like i would check it with him be like you know what's the challenge at this time i'm working on a sushi restaurant chain and he's like you know i'll spend six months just court the right guy the right suit at this at this company i gotta take him to you know a football game i gotta invite his family over we gotta get to know we gotta get them comfortable with this you know the software but once i get once i close that deal these deals are gonna be worth millions and millions of dollars over time they're never gonna rip us out once we get in and so i i'm curious how this company is doing today but i know that you know fifteen years ago i was like this is a great idea and i just i i intuitively knew it because i was like the same effort it's taking me to do this silly sushi restaurant thing he's spending the same amount of time he's just working for a much bigger prize with much more def and a much clearer value where he's going into an industry that's like never had you know doesn't have this this sort of software capability he's like i will sit here until i understand your problems and then i will build solutions for this and i just love that approach i think that's a like if people are willing to kinda like eat it and go outside of their like kinda comfort zone of problem areas they understand there's pretty big opportunities yeah and it's cool did you see this graph for andrew lynch of this company's revenue yeah it be just like a perfect hockey stick but over a long period of time over a really long period of time i mean that's something you talk about like this fifteen years to get to ten million you know respect for continuing and making it all work that's not for me what what's the boys quote why does everyone make fun of getting rich quick that's the best way to get rich and i'm gonna tell you about a company the second here that said in their first week they did a million dollars of sales and never went less than that from there and you think that that's not true correct i think it's i think it's a lie but i love a good lie i love a good lie tell me about this give me a good underestimate how much of startup up stories or just lies okay so here's my here's why my big business breakdown i see your duel and i erase you in in my head by the way we were doing an old fashioned western duel but now i decided it's american gladiators and your laser and i'm blazer and we're going at it on the jo and so this morning i was thinking about who's lying out there who's lying men's problems slows let's explain with those famous that way okay so most people have heard you got a little you got a little situation is that the issue you got a little no no no no that's not how we got actually here's the here's the actual train of thought i was thinking about these t shirt company a little segue here to tell you how my brain works i think about these t shirt companies i don't know if you've seen this but basically in the last kinda like four years there's been a bunch of companies start started that succeeded that did the most obvious thing and i've seen this happen again and again that there's these windows of time where big ideas are just hidden in plain sight and so basically in the last four years a bunch of companies have started that do such a simple thing they just sell basic plain men's t shirts and these were the big d ideas so like anybody who wanted to do e commerce or drop shipping or d build a brand the opportunity was sitting right in front everybody it was just men's t shirts so you have cuts fresh clean teas true classic teas built basics all of these companies that in the last sort of four year window have built hundred million dollar plus companies so some of them do about fifty million a year in sales some of them do a hundred or a hundred fifty million dollars year in sales this kinda range but to go in into like a three year period to get to a hundred fifty million in sales that's what true classic teas did is just bananas to be honest and so i'll tell you the the numbers for true classic so year one let's see where they do so we're my think go okay you're one fifteen million year two ninety million year three a hundred fifty million in top line revenue and and they did it all through facebook ads selling plain you know white black blue men's t shirts and that's the same thing i think fresh ts is somewhere like fifty million north of fifty million in revenue i think cuts is over a hundred million it's crazy that these companies all scaled so fast doing this such an obvious thing where the learned that there was no massive innovation and so i was thinking about this i was like man there's these windows of time and then i thought about what what are other windows that i've seen like this and i stayed in the ecommerce world and i thought about oh back in twenty seventeen both roman and him launched doing basically the same thing and they launched within like a couple months of each other basically people had the same idea at the same time and both of them became billion dollar plus companies doing the same thing what they did was you know i guess the summary is they took advantage of a what do we call it an inflection sam was this inflection in this case well was regulation inflection this was a regulatory and so what happened was there was proven market demand for drugs like viagra or prop ro gain and so hair loss or e rectify dysfunction there was a proven like business there and they started like in the early nineties and so by twenty seventeen the patents expired for those and when the patents expired have ever taken to viagra or anything like that haven't it have you no but it's entire eye if someone's if someone told me it's awesome i would but i've never hard wrong it's awesome go so so the patents expired and basically now there was like generic versions of these and so what and at the same time there's another regulatory which was that telemedicine was becoming more and more things were getting opened up for telemedicine meaning you could prescribe drugs without going to the doc so drugs without a dock was the key kinda like just you know frame framework for for this type of business and so they both launched and the him guy says this guy andrew dud he goes we launched and in our first week we did a million dollars of sales and we've never done less than a million since then i was like wow that is incredible and it is true that him scaled really quickly so their revenue a million a week so he said he never did he said never did less than a million a week after his watching yes oh is that yeah and i was like that's insane i was thinking about that because i was like i've launched many things the first week is you're talking about patching holes on a boat that's how the first week is it's like you don't even have inventory you don't have you don't have a million dollars of inventory you don't have like to do a million dollars how much are you spending an ad did you did you just blast like half a million dollars of ads in in your first week at facebook ads doesn't even let you ramp up that quickly thought i was a little bit suspicious of this and the revenue did ramp quickly so they launched the very end of twenty seventeen twenty eighteen the full year they did twenty seven million dollars in revenue with twenty seven million dollars in ad spend so they spent a hundred percent of revenue on ads so they burned a bunch of money twenty nineteen they did they went from twenty seven million to eighty three million and they spent fifty million on ads twenty twenty they were forecasting about a hundred forty million and then i have the actual so that look check out this revenue goes that's pretty insane twenty twenty one they did two seventy twenty twenty two they did five forty twenty twenty three they're projecting to finish at eight hundred million in revenue so this is a pretty crazy run in what six years to ramp up to eight hundred million and in revenue so they could get pretty a billion in revenue in seven years exactly the burning money this whole time even now even at five hundred million last year they only have two percent eb margin and that's the adjusted eb the real the they actually burned ten million but the the adjusted is that they you know they they they made a a a small two percent margin and so super capital intensive they raise like two hundred something million dollars before going public and then then going public another two three hundred million dollars went into the business i think and so it's taken them a lot of capital to get here so i would say three things amazing story just in general like props to them for pulling this off like they they built us out of an incubator i ran an incubator for six years couldn't get one thing like even ten million in revenue and they this was like a big hit that came out of a a incubator which is very very rare row oh roman which now rebranded row also came out of an incubator at the same time so they're the two biggest incubator hits were were sort of the these two companies and did the same thing essentially one did it for hair i think him did it for hair hair loss and road did it for ed and then they both just added the other product as they went so impressive in that way the revenue growth impressive the ad spend and the money burned incredible so i now question isn't this even a good business so like they basically showed that their their c so their cost to acquire customers is really high like their cost to acquire customers is basically what i have it here it's like hundred plus dollars to acquire a customer let me grab it i think it's like a hundred fifty dollars on average to to acquire a customer the lowest it's been is like a hundred dollars to acquire a customer and they basically think they think they 3x x their money in three years which is actually not very good for e comm like my e comm business which is nowhere near the scale of this is way more efficient than this like they're trying to pay back essentially you know a little over a year you know we try to pay back in in two months and so like you know it's amazing what just pure aggression they approach this business with they were just like yeah we're gonna scale this thing and we're gonna pour a bunch of money in we're gonna burn a bunch of money but we're gonna ramp up and like we're gonna try to thread the needle to get this business to work when it's at the billions in in in scale and they kind of pulled it off because they went public with via back and they got liquid before the business really work this week i had to chop down a tree at my farm and i didn't have an axe so i just used a sled hammer instead and some my wife was like do you you you chopped down that tree i was like i i kinda smashed it down and i just sludge ham hammered it down and that's kinda what these guys did they just kinda sludge hammer their way into into the market have you seen this guy that's on tiktok that just chops the tree and all like it gets like a million views and it's all there's like hundreds of thousands of women commenting like like just like gasp like i need him is he hot was shirtless no the shirtless and hot he's shirtless and he just chops the street perfectly like it's like it takes him like ten strokes to crack down this is giant tree is that you endo for sex or something literally like i'm watching this thing i'm like i don't even know why i'm watching this this is like just from a purely objective level this is very attractive this is i'm just gonna say this this is very backwards that he just wears like suspend he looks like a lumber jack but he's like g out so he's he's like a groomed lumber jack that's super like with a crossfit body that chops down trees and instead stuff go to the gym since he's incredible so you're current like that you're like that but like you know not he's i'm like i'm i'm like store brand that yeah you're feel like in the in the in the zip code of that so that's basically what these guys said they're gonna brute force their way but why don't you think this is a good business well i think that the i mean just the amount of capital it took to to get to this business value so it's worth one point eight billion on paper and they've taken five hundred million to get here so like if you just zoom out it's like we three and a half extra money like that's not the most impressive thing but like when you frame it the other way which is like we're gonna hit a billion dollars in sales and we've done this in seven years and like you know we've built the largest telemedicine health company for men and women and you could frame it one way or you can just kinda look at it like now here's a business where if i have to pay a hundred fifty dollars to acquire a customer and give takes two years to pay it back if if that we'll see how it all projects out it's super sensitive to like you know they they pour so much money into marketing and what if you know facebook cost change like how is that gonna affect them like there's all these factors i'm not saying it's a bad business but like compared to that pe company that does a hundred million in sales a dividends out fifty million to the owner i know which business i would want to own right i the business that didn't need a spa to to to succeed as the business i would wanna the one that's dividend out like a mega yacht every year to this guy like that's sick and it has like you know one one millionth of the notoriety of a brand like it some others you say about the yeah tell me the that other interesting so so other cool so so seriously are some notable things on the i wanna put these on the screen i put the put the images on screen on youtube if you're listen to the podcast just pause go to youtube because you gotta see these so if you go back to their history first take a look at this thing i have on page what is this page like three or something of this the p and l do you see this p and l this was in their s one to go public it's literally it just says revenue twenty seven gross profit eight adjusted eb minus sixty eight that's the p they shared in their investor presentation i was like what kind kindergarten level of detail is this what kind of prey on p and l or are you're doing like this is fucking ridiculous and i was like this is why specs this is why specs went to shit because it's like half the p and l is just projections what you can't do if you go public the traditional way but in spa you can do these like forward looking projections and that's how all these guys got away with it it's like we got a shitty business now but like five years from now we are crushing and that's like you know they they were able to tell that story whereas you can't make forward looking statements in the traditional way of going public and then i was like this is some absolute basic beginner looking thing i i was just stunned at this this is like on the sec website that's a that's an embarrassment alright it's second thing you can go to their website and you can find in the web archive their landing page from the beginning so check this out this is their first landing page this is like the month that they launched it just said guy i could staggering odds two things happen one the universe two you you let's walk at our full height honor our fore bearer have a smile and for god's sakes floss shop now and then it just goes it it spills down and it just says sex this is this is simple you need directions when you want them and not when it's convenient for your penis and there's eggplant emoji it says shop sex and there was another one for hair like that was like the same was like she needs to run her fingers through your hair lot and then it just says our best sellers and there's just a very basic bottle that says fin and that's like the the generic name for prop or like you know for for like the hair the male pattern bald like drug or whatever and they were just selling it for twenty eight dollars and then there was they're only a two skews fin and vitamins not even like vitamin c is is ice hear some vitamins and so incredible to go see i love love love looking at successful businesses early landing pages just to see like how did they get their business out the door one thing that's interesting is from the beginning they actually had a pretty strong like branding and brand identity so if you go do this with like snapchat or uber the first websites are just absolutely funky like i have this blog post on the internet that's called like user just search john early startup landing pages medium ten it's until ten throwback startup up home pages when did you write that article i wrote this in two thousand fifteen so this was month what month june oh you beat me an october twelfth two thousand fifteen i wrote an article proof that your favorite start up started out awful and it's a list of ten landing pages yeah you copy any startup i think we knew each other then so you can go look at airbnb it's like literally plain black and white and it's just says forget hotels stay on the local uber it looks like a you know jan thing everyone's private driver but it looks like a old school car service snapchat it's got one of these like yellow bubbles that's like they're like buy now you know like you know half by two get one and it just says free download inside and it says in introducing snapchat real time picture chatting for iphone and it's two girls in their like bikini and it just says seven seconds on the screen and like you know a self distracting photo so you can see what early start landing pages look like what's interesting that was unique in the him case is that they actually had their branding from day one which i think was a smart move by them and they specifically branded it the opposite colors as every other male wellness products every other male owner's product is essentially blue and they were like no we'll go all neutral color scheme lowercase like lowercase font for the for the brand name and we're gonna make it subtle because there's a stigma and a taboo around this is it's not something you wanna brag about we don't want bold we want like we wanna be able to give you this package in a discreet way and you know and i know and that's all who needs to know and i thought that was like a smart thing for them to get right from day one all their models are like it's usually like a cool looking black dude or like racially ambiguous us guides it's like some it's like oh i i can see myself at you i'm a y cool guy it's like i wear like cool jeez as well where your parents all of the power rangers why are you all start happened here it's usually like a like a pretty racially ambiguous good looking guy with nice tea yeah yeah the teeth throw was on point versus like a viagra is always like brett far looking guy and then this was one of their early early ads so it's just it just says get hard or get your money back and it's just a guy holding a tiny pill and it's and then what is that guy oh dude his hand is like a gradient in photoshop it's like all all colors are easier so it says eggplant emoji rise to the occasion for that one thing that they did really well was they figured out how do you advertise on facebook with a taboo product so they would do stuff like they would show a picture of a cactus that was limp and then another and and it would be like with him you don't have this problem so like how do you and so they were very clever clever with their marketing they also did stuff where they would create ad inventory so they would go to like stadiums and they'd be alright bunch of guys who are in our demographic are at the stadium we could either spend like four hundred thousand dollars to get on the jumbo tron and along with like you know bmw and a bunch of other big brands or they went to the stadium facility manager and they were like hey how much for the uri space they're like what like yeah we wanna put a little ad on the uri and we'll give you guys like you know x price to be in every uri and they're like yeah i dude we got like thirty seconds of guys focused time while they're touching the thing like you know looking at our ad this is actually kinda of perfect and so they would create new ad inventory that didn't even exist before just trying to figure out how do we spend a hundred million dollars in a way that's gonna be as efficient as possible so they're you know really just like very they're like a very advanced marketing agency essentially and another thing that they did and i did a big breakdown on this one time was so if you google viagra alternative or cheap viagra or buy viagra online they show up number one and what they did was they actually sponsored a ton of twitch people and somehow that like got their links out there and they like they got tons and tons of backlinks really early on so him dot com ranked quite high so they are able to get like it was i think if you i think it's viagra alternative might be like their word i forget which it's one of those pages and that's where they got most of the revenue early on oh wow that's interesting you know there's another cool thing i'll put this graphic on the stream it's this graphic from i don't i've ever read sa by the way i don't know if fancy how you say sad yeah the like the research thing i like it yeah they're pretty cool i only think people know about them but they it's like really good research s a c r a yeah so they had done a thing and they had this great graphic which is basically they were like telemedicine was like this like trend it's like this like there's a lot of opportunity in telemedicine right now and they just showed this picture of like a guy and a girl and it's a diagram and basically it's like you could look from like head to toe literally from head to toe and you just go down the body you're like okay hair there's him there's keeps there's roman okay then you go down to like eyes and it's like there's prescription contact hubble you know it was was a d start doing prescription contacts through a phone app instead of going to the doctor when you go to their buy app it's like t there's a bunch of t companies like home health and and others and then you're like and then you go to you know their abs like weight loss you go to the crotch it's like here's the dysfunction then you go down to the toes like here's toe fungus these got a little put next know it's like hey here's pop it's this insurance for your pet so you have like instead of go to the vet for everything you can use pop and and so it's like and then they need the same thing for women and you could just literally like if you've seen those diagrams that were like there was a big opportunity to un bundle craigslist and they took craigslist homepage and they showed out every little section of craigslist became its own billion dollar startup they did the same thing to your body every part of your body became a billion dollar startup essentially from one d wellness company and we're we're multiple in some in some areas so from skin and hair all of their logos look exactly the same lowercase font pastel colors h i think it's so by the way what one one other little observation a lot of these d successes came from a certain type of founder not all of them but many from nba found like founders who went to like business schools which is funny because like in the startup world business schools kinda like our an easy punching bag because you're like punching up at the institution it's easy to make fun of them like bro you don't learn business with school you learn business by doing business and that's how i feel to be honest with you so i'm like that's true but there is something interesting that a lot of d companies blue apron birch box stitch fix war parker rent the runway hell hello fresh and then this you know this guy who did him he went to war as well so it's like a lot of these big i think there was something about the type of person who would do well in a business school and the types of things you learn in business school where you're like do this market landscape you like figure out the opportunity you're like okay good i just need to be like good at marketing and then good at operations in order to like like put cash in here and get thing out it's not like very software base it's not in you don't have to be the the innovator who's like you know the one inventor of something i think it landed itself to that type of entrepreneur which i that i found pretty interesting too well here's what our listeners need to do they need to either probably in the youtube comments they need to let us know i actually want to do it who won the dual i actually want them to i wanna know if they think him is a good business but who also who won the dual so you'll have to vote my saying our names we'll include us a spotify poll as well so you can just vote in the app and we'll do a spotify poll as well and some guy in the youtube channel said who's this blonde host and why is he so annoying so just over the record the blonde annoying guy that's his someone said in the comment the the blonde annoying guy that was sam i went first it's sean is the brown less annoying guy he went second for him so let us know who the winner here of the of this duel i'm very eager to hear what people gonna say i know which one i would rather own but i think they're both quite interesting for sure for sure you saw this post by mark zuckerberg that he did the mu i tweeted out the picture of it and it got like five million views it kinda took off and i don't know so do you do you know what the mu is i had never heard of the mu until i saw this and then i was like i must do the mu if named after lieutenant murphy i believe context clues leads me to believe that he died in the military and his favorite workout i believe it's one mile run three hundred squats a hundred push ups and a hundred pull ups and then on one mile run all while wearing a twenty pound weighted vest is that the workout that's exactly right run a mile hundred pull ups two hundred push ups three hundred squats run another mile while wait while wearing a twenty pound vest and z basically takes a like bro gym shot i gotta use the blackberry for this he's got the phone down here not smile got the mouth open and just and just snaps it with himself drenched in sweat and he's like just did the mu but he's like me and my daughters did he's got a picture of his daughter's doing like push ups and he goes like this year i got it done in thirty nine minutes and fifty eight seconds and i was like i read that and i was like that sounds like really fast if he had just said i did a hundred pull ups today i would have been like man what a day fantastic we're forget for all the rest i was already impressed by hundred pull ups to say you got that done in waited did pull ups to say you got that done in thirty nine minutes i was like that sounds ridiculously fast and sure off all the comments were like that's an insane time for the mu have you ever done this workout i haven't but the world record holder of the mu is this guy named hunter mc who's dm me on twitter and instagram and i've talked to because i i like him a lot where i follow him and i feel like i like him is that what fit guys do they just dm each other yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like a club you know like what you can see the sixth app you start each yeah i'm one of us and to see you and he'd d end me he listens to the pod he's the world record holder and i think his world record is like thirty four minutes and z was thirty nine minutes which means he would have gotten like ten or fifteenth place at there's like a mu games or something like that i mean i had so many thoughts rushed through my head by microsoft first i saw thirty nine minutes and i thought i've taken shits longer than that like that's a that's a crazy fast time then i thought i don't think i can even do a earth get an infinite amount of time i don't think in my life i have done a total of two miles running one hundred pull ups two hundred push ups in three hundred air spots like with a twenty found vest i have just never done it period so my time is currently thirty five years then i thought this mother this guy has he decided y you know what i'll just become one of the richest people in the world one of the most powerful people in the world and the one of the fit guys in the world like he's basically wholesome top point one percent wealth top point one percent you know intelligence top point one percent power and now he's top point stop one point one percent chad also i am blown with all all before the age of forty yeah exactly eddie got two kids or something like that i'm like i mean david go should go to sleep listening to mark zuckerberg videos for motivation this guy is incredible i went and i bought more stock and i bought a plain gray you know cookie cutter t shirt in his honor i was like this is i'm gonna retire this the raft of my office i'm gonna put it on a hang a gray shirt just to honor this man he gets so much shit and man he's really turned his like public persona around like do you remember he was he was the biggest do like not just like oh when he was young like recently he was the biggest do he's he tried to do something cool like he would when he did that like hydro foil thing and he paint this fight his face white like acacia and like guys like and i hit american fire i was just like was like man like you know what keep all your money i don't wanna be you and now he's like you know just got off work did a quick tournament came back you know if fucking i can delete snapchat off the earth i'm like wow this guy is just this guy's making power moves all day he's incredible he's he's a very inspirational dude he's done it scandal free so z is only thirty seven now you know probably fifth or six ricky he's only thirty seven something like that i mean he's illness his thirties how is he thirty nine thirty nine only so he so basically he been married to the same woman been with her since college has two kids seems like his family life on the on the on paper seems awesome there was a time where in like the most scandalous thing that he did was he had a video where he talked about smoking and meats and every year he said you remember that because every year he that's gold no no that's not the most scandalous thing that was just like hilarious that he was a robot trying to be like hello humans i am doing a barbecue with i have flesh on a grill with fire and i was like forever this is the robots the most scandals thing he did was when he was in college and the the his aim messages has got leaked that was like you know a real wonderful day in my household as i like was like hey cancel netflix i have my entertainment for the week i'm reading all of mark zuckerberg a messages for the next week and it wasn't big of a deal what he said was pretty on par with an eighteen year old nineteen year old person like well maybe it was a one part was a little bit like ugh is this what we want like this guy's this is the guy running facebook where he was like big he's like yeah he's like he's like yeah just tell me if you want anyone like you know named do you know date of birth at you know address whatever he's like these dumb fucks just is trust me they just put everything in the in the system and so was like something and year old kid who invented this stuff would say yeah i would say that was the last time i was relatable with mark zuckerberg ever since then he's created a gap he he's out based me from there every year he sets these goals one year it was he only wants to eat food that he killed or grew and i think he did it and then another year he was like i'm gonna learn mandarin because i want facebook to come to china and i think his wife is chinese and he was like i'm learn man to did it and then he goes and he gives a talk i think he does it gives a talk to a chinese universe he he gave me an interview they go he they fly him out there they're like thank you so much mark zuckerberg for coming me are so happy to have you and he's like he's like you know well mitchell he just start speaking chinese and they're like her blown away it's it's like really great man where he's basically fluent and so the guy kills it man he does great and like when he did the e so he got into e foil which is basically surfboard boarding without a wave and he is doing it with an american flag and he has too much sunscreen on his space but that's my guy a guy who's biggest like flaw is that he's goofy it's not i know my guy and then now that i owe you're zag the other way you're saying z bad move relatable too too good no vulnerability no no now he's no longer girl next door hot now he's just super supermodel hot sucks the best man he just he you know our friend nikita to beer has this joke where he says up in like i would never never or i forget why he says them but he says he never ever ever bet against suck how he's just a complete killer and he is wrong sometimes but not the grand scheme and this is further proof well the funny thing is people will hate the segment because i think it's popular to really hate mark zuckerberg because they hate facebook i think because they're like my data or like the russians hacked the election or i'm even sure i'm not even sure what the what the exact reason is for hating zuckerberg at this point i just gotta say like this is i mean he he he is inspiring and that he is excellent and if you appreciate excellence that is kind of inspiring it's kinda like people who hate lebron it's like okay i get it you don't have to like the guy but i mean you gotta respect yeah puts a respect on this guy's name her the store wrong either by the way but the played sometimes yeah exactly yeah my yeah he switched teams when he was a free agent my real estate agent told me the story that she was driving she's like that's mark zuckerberg house in the in the mission kinda like near dolores park type of area and i was he lives here and i was like that's not like i thought he lived in some private gated community and she was like well i mean he has like many houses but this is one this was one and this is like his main one for a while and she's like he made it private i know was what do you mean i don't see any fence and she's like no he bought the houses next door like he just bought all the houses in the area so that like you know whatever and so he he knocked on someone's door himself so somebody opened the door and it was mark zuckerberg outside and he's like hey you know i love this house and i would you sell it to me and they're like no i mean it's not for sale we we love this house so close to the par you know my to commute it's only seven miles like i'll you ten million dollars and they're like okay here's the keys basically he bought the house for ten million it was probably a two million dollar house and then the house next like the house is nearby two and a half three billion dollars and he paid ten and just got the house right away dude that person who sold their house to him would be the best dinner guest imagine that story does like to have you on air if that's you we would like to have you come tell that story because obviously i'm reconnecting what i was told by real estate agent i don't know if that's a that's true or that's bullshit so yeah suck amazing let's wrap wrap up with this last thing this nike thing did you watch this movie air i did i thought it was awesome it it was pretty sweet right like not the best movie but like a just a solid base hit on a on a thursday night a friday night you know you just need something that's i don't wanna sit here and browse netflix for the perfect thing alright i'm just gonna go on i think it's on amazon i'm just gonna go watch air and like this just watch the story of how nike signed michael jordan they made and bill might look like a doo yeah why did they do that i didn't understand that they well he does like appearance wise look like a do but they also made him act like a do yeah which i don't think he was like that when i read shoe dog i i didn't get that idea i he he he he's more i think they made him look like when he wrote he he made himself sound cool well i've read a lot i've read a lot of bottom he he they they just kinda made them look like a like a like a dead person like an idiot yeah he's not an idiot but the guy they feature so a couple of things so so first anything stand out from the movie air but then i have i wanna go deep on this guy carr because i think he's actually more interesting who without the main character i remembers name that's that's the main character so that's matt damon matt damon in the movie but yeah know in in in nike in in the air movie i thought one one thing i didn't know was they're they're talking about just do it which is the just do it's the slogan that you know everybody knows this the nike kinda like iconic slogan and they they were talking about like at the time even people internally were like just do it like we got that from the adding to agency widen kennedy and they're like i don't know what what does that what does that mean you like it i like i don't know it's okay i guess and where they weren't like yes this is this is gonna be this like marketing masterpiece and they go what what does that even mean and they go dude it's from an inmate on death row who was about to be sas about to be executed and they were like any last words and he goes just do it so that became that i slow which is honestly kinda genius so i wanna talk about the guy son vac because he's kind of a gangster that i've seen for many many years in the basketball scene and the movie was about him and he this guy is pretty fascinating so what in the movie he's famous because he's working at nike at the time nike is the last player it's was just a running shoe company and they're the smaller shoe company adidas is this global brand that's crushing it they own most of the sneaker market i believe never pronounce yeah adi adidas which has its own interesting story then re ba is like number two and nike is like a distant three but they were doing like twenty seven million a year in sales through their running shoot so good but not like nowhere near the come top tier of a few companies and so sunny meets phil knight and he's like hey i got an idea for a basketball shoe i wanna create like a basketball division like you guys are all running shoes we should create basketball shoes and he's like okay like come on in and you got this little basketball department like go ahead try to make it work and the movie is all about like one breakthrough thing he did which was they had a tiny budget and in the nineteen eighty four draft they decided to sponsor michael jordan and michael jordan was not interested in nike he was gonna go with i think adidas does or somebody like that and he was known as a as a hot prospect he's like number three pick and they were like well we still want and and sonny was convinced we need michael jordan and so the movie about them trying to go get michael jordan on gordon and what ended up what they what the pitch was was basically they put their entire budget on one guy instead of spreading across multiple players he relentlessly pursued jordan and like met his mom and like just like drove out there in north carolina take to meet them and try to build a relationship and then showed jordan's face in the movie which actually was pretty cool and it was basically the whole relationship was how do impress his mom because i know his will have my back she's making the decisions and so they were like well we're gonna pitch him on his own signature shoe from day one and we're gonna name it after him so it will be the air jordan it'll be a whole product line named after him and he ended up negotiating a royalty on every pair of jordan sold and that's how michael jordan became become a billionaire or not through basketball but through his shoes so that's the the movie part okay cool this guy sonny actually did a bunch of other interesting things and i thought were pretty cool so as a marketer i just respect this guy's hustle so here's some of the things he did to make nike win he created so he was like alright we gotta create like a like a kid strategy like how do we get him while they're young and so he created a high school all american game so he was like he called it the the dapper band round ball classic he goes throughout the country he's like i'm inviting you to participate you're gonna compete against you know the it's the twelve best players or whatever of twenty best players in the country you're invited to come do this thing in in in pittsburgh or phil philadelphia or some shit like that and it was like and so he flies them out there and he puts this thing together now he's got the players so then he goes and tells all the college coaches hey if you're scouting you need to come to this round ball class you can see all the best high school players at once and so then college coaches are coming so now players are like oh if i wanna get seen by college coaches i gotta get to the high school american game so he just like created through brute force like a conference essentially that would bring together the kind of the core supply demand and then he could find at that age the best young players and so he that's how he found kobe bryant that's how he found lebron james they were part of his high school all american things in his camp so the second he created a summer camp for only the best players called abc b c and he brand this is when he was with adidas so this guy worked for nike then he worked for adidas then he worked for re box so he just this guy was just a hired assassin that went from company to company and would just try to get them to win in their market using whatever advantages they had and so when nike needed something he was like alright you need to get them all their young work could do this camp but also what we're gonna do is we need to get college players wearing our stuff they all wear adidas and because it's the most popular brand so that's just what they choose by default or they choose converse and so he's like you know why don't we you can't pay college athletes but nobody's saying about coaches and so he just started he would go to the coaches and he'd be like hey i'm gonna give you ten grand and here's twenty six pairs of shoes give him out they happened to be the sizes of like most of your guys they don't have to wear them you get the ten grand either way but we sure do hope you would you know you would go ahead and and you know encourage them to wear these shoes and so he went to jim bay and he went to like you know all the top college coaches and he basically bribe them and it was like in this gray area where it was allowed and in one year he just traveled like he would just fly city to city he would go to the campus he would make the coach and offer and at the time they were buying this equipment for their program they're like our kids made equipment so we gotta buy this the stuff so we turned to cost into revenue for them and gave them free stuff and sure enough all of them sa started wearing nike for free so all of a sudden now nike is being worn by all the best college players and it's on tv and in one year he just did a land grab across the country before the other companies could could react he got all of and i thought this was just like a genius jira strategy he started doing amazing i how far you can go with brute force this was a sled hammer this was a sled hammer and you can get pretty far with sled hammer then then he did another thing he sued the nc so he went to this guy ed abandoned and he was like hey we should sue the nc they're using your name your face you're like this to market the tournament and all the stuff and you're getting nothing from it and now college players can get paid through this n n rule this name and likeness thing and it's because he won the case with that lawsuit against the nc that was like you know it happened the the lawsuit happened in the last time of a five years or so then the the rule came into effect like a year ago or something and so so i thought that was awesome there were some great quotes about him some guy goes when sunny dies he's gonna sneak his way into heaven and and when he gets through the first thing he's gonna do is he's gonna look for a six nine kid to make a deal with like he's like and and the other thing that said is there's only one man on earth who could tell you who the best sixth grade basketball player in the country is and it's sonny vac and i just love that this guy just like owned his niche and just absolutely like went balls to the wall and really built like i don't know tens of billions of value at least inside of nike plus adidas plus re ba with these athletes and he would have also got so he signed jordan he signed he he got he poached kobe away from adidas and that he would have got lebron too when he was at adidas and lebron was ready to sign he goes we need to offer ten million a year ten years hundred million dollar contract to this eighteen year old kid and bonds ready to sign and then adidas gave them the ten million but they changed the structure last minute they got a little cold feet and they're like well we don't know if this kid's gonna work why don't we make it part of an incentive base for and so they offered him seven million guaranteed and three million a year of incentives and lebron turned it down ends up going nike never looked back and like just a huge blu like basically this guy's whole life he was fighting bureaucracy inside companies and then doing like black market and gray hat shit in the like you know in the streets and every nba player like no sunny their parents no sunny because this guy was just working the streets and like there are certain companies that have had this tinder kinda had this with what's her name the a whitney wolf who started bum she was kinda doing this from college campus to college campus like going into the so houses and the f houses it just brute force onboarding all the guys and girls in one campus so that tinder was useful and then throwing parties and doing stuff like that and like you need these people these are like game changing people for your company i remember when coinbase went public brian armstrong did this long thread he did something you never see somebody do which was company goes public they usually just say generic stuff he actually talked about like what led coin base to be successful and he called out one guy by name that wasn't his c cofounder wasn't his main investor it was just an employee and his guy dan romero and he's like and you know basically special taste to dan romero who like just kinda like brute force built our relationships with banks and he he basically got them their relationships with banking partners and like i think maybe some stuff overseas and it was just kinda like what one of those things like dude i don't know how we're gonna do this i don't know dan that's your mission send them on a mission to go do that and dan basically joined coin ba coinbase as an employee ended up making like a hundred million dollars plus through this process and i knew this guy i met him in college he was in my yeah he didn't you like used to make fun of him coleman to leave i didn't make one of them but in my head i did he was we took a class called computers again i was going through campus looking for the easiest sounding classes i took giving rich i one class i took another guys own computers and in computers they were talking about like that's like a class person class it's computers and they were just talking about like the internet and like internet i remember like just talking about net neutrality a ton i was like i don't know what the hell he's guys were talking about like i couldn't give less of a shit about this and there was one guy that every class had like strong opinions was super informed i was like man who is this like teacher's pet that's just like as he trying to impress him i like no i don't even think he's trying to impress him i think he actually just nerdy about this stuff he just listen motherfucker just loves the internet this guy like wants to make out with the internet i was ever sitting in the back of class like i was like thank you for talking so much dan romero because i don't have to say a word in this class and it's sort of like joe revenge of the urgent way it's like jokes on you like this guy's passion and enthusiasm about the internet technologies what led him early into crypto was led him to pick coin base and ended up you know like his passion that led him to be a key person there this guy made million hundreds million dollars probably is retired and and got to do what he love the whole time and so like you know i i used to make fun of people who were like you know overly enthusiastic and now i preached that you need like enthusiasm massively underrated more people and he's got a super handsome heads shot now in linkedin dan romero does because you can afford a whole you know glow up if if you if you get that coinbase based ipo and early bitcoin money he's got great hair this guy definitely takes him he's a good looking guy howard are him user and he just bought thirteen million dollars worth the a thirteen million dollar property in venice and another one in park city dan juan yeah dan one for sure bet yeah and you could tell that he's ripped too like this guy's definitely has apps dan one good job dan i'm just like you just google and see his face you know this guy's fit i should dm them i'm add you to the group yeah say no i've seen enough to the yeah could tell by his jawline this guy's got over one of those like vs like those out as there's like junk no no n t's just looked up your shirt six i'll tell you that idea it's qualify so dude this guy's sunny sounds awesome i i did see the movie and they made him look like a guy who could just put up with a whole lot of pain that's what they made them look like they made him look like a guy who like he would just get shit on constantly and he always pulled through that's what they made them look like and they also made them look exhausted and they're terribly unhealthy which is kind of true yeah they made them look horrible and if you look at photos of them granted he's like looks like he's he's was born in nineteen thirty eight i think so like you know you are what you are at that point but like he he he definitely looks like he smoked a lot of cigarettes nineteen thirty eight that sounds very old is that i left him up on wikipedia i think it's thirty eight thirty old wow yeah he's eighty three wow son yeah so he he you know he he's alive and and the way the guy's name is actually john paul vincent vac quote change the sunny that goddamn i like you have to have a nickname that everybody in your town knows you buy that's like to me that's like one of the great honors of life it's yeah his name name sean but everybody called him sonny whole life everybody called sunny it's like that's just like such a cool i wish i had a calling card like that that's an italian thing that's like i feel like all the there's always a sunny in the mafia movies that i watch yeah his he operates a monster for sure i like this this is a good find i saw that movie and i thought i don't want that guy's job it sounded like an exhausting exhausted existence it's it sounded very challenging but yeah i did like the movie they made him they made phil knight look a little goofy which i'm a big phil night fan so kinda hurt my feelings but no i thought it was a good movie and this is a good find alright that's it that's the pod let us know who won this the the duel the annoying blonde haired guy who went first or the less annoying brown guy who went second that's the pod yeah i feel like i could rule word i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like the day's on on a travel never looking back