Brainstorming ChatGPT Business Ideas With Billionaire Dharmesh Shah

again i've been in software for thirty years now doing startups up pretty much my entire professional career the only time i've i felt like like hell hard pal kinda like sean kinda open with is like there's this party going on next door and not here knit right it's like this is like too big to ignore i think it's the single largest opportunity in biggest kinda of tech paradigm shift we've seen since the internet originally came out lights mobile was big but there was a discrete set of use cases like when you put a camera on a phone when you put a gps device on phone a bunch of consumer apps like uber and others came up and and that was awesome them right but it was not like this impacts everything like the internet did right it's like okay there's some businesses some new opportunities lots of good lots of money made lots of startups ups awesome this is an order of magnitude bigger than that alright what's up we have da back our mesh who is c cofounder of hubspot and multiple time guest on the pod one of the one of the fan favorites you're back and i don't know what we're gonna talk about because usually we have these little like cheat sheets where it's like three to three to five bullet points of interesting ideas topics experiments you've been running things like that and i'm sure you have those but i don't have to cheat sheets where do you wanna start mh i say we start with generative ai because i don't know if you've heard but there's this thing called chad g i get this question for from my friends and family all the times like der mesh have you checked out this chad gp thing i'm like really do you even know me like or of course i played with it i've been obsessed ever since came out so did did you see i wanna talk about your topics but really quick did you see did you guys see this that so sam alt c founded open ai he's like the the man in charge i read an article where he was quoted as saying like i have enough money and i don't want equity in the company and i don't know if i entirely believe that but that's wild if true because it could be one of the more valuable companies in the world the next ten years yeah he didn't i don't know if he said it like he didn't say it on the record on the record but the person reporting it said sam reportedly has no equity in the the for profit version of open ai because he's already wealthy enough and didn't want didn't feel like he neither to or didn't want to didn't want to have that cloud his judgment when it came to this and like this is pretty get a bet what what one private company what one private startup is most likely to become worth a trillion dollars or more i think at this point it has to be open ai right now is that like der would you would you disagree with that it it'd be up there the top three okay honestly can't think of who else would rank higher in terms of probability of the top three and i don't know what two and three are yeah well who are the other two and three you know you know i don't know who's was like no i i i would say that was the transformative one right i think you know a lot of the kind of tesla gains we've sort of seen i'm not sure if there's like big surprises left it's like okay they will make it better they'll get to full self driving and and we'll see kind of progress on that front but in terms of just raw valuation it's the wildcard card opening yeah is the one that could actually pull on and they get they they get a lot of shit because people are saying like you like you know elon kind of is is s this fire like how did this nonprofit go to a four how did this open source non nonprofit company research lab basically become a for profit semi closed you know the company and i think that's people are gonna make people are gonna take shots and make fun of open ai because it's clearly the new powerful thing that's so some people are gonna say how it's gonna ruin the world and how terrible they are but he did give a there was a a story they came out with a good explanation which was they were burning a lot of money in the research lab they needed more money elon was gonna be the big backers so he was gonna pledge or come commit a billion dollars to it he and then he was like no i don't like the way this is going like google is way ahead and i'm gonna take over open ai and i'm gonna write the ship here this is the this is what k this is the story that they came out yeah they haven't nobody's clarified if this is true or not but it came out and i think the platform publication and so they go elon tried to take it over sam alt and the cto greg who who was the former cto of of stripe they them and the group that was in charge of opening i rejected that so elon is like basically like i'm taking my ball and i'm going home have fun playing basketball without the ball and he like i'd say he took his funding and he left so he a couple months later that he left open ai said oh and the the public story was oh it's a conflict of interest with tesla because they're also working on ai but he on his funding and so now they had this huge shortfall in funding that they were gonna have to cover and so their solution was let's create a subsidiary that's a for profit thing that we can raise money into because we're not gonna get you know where else do we get a you know five hundred million dollars or a billion dollars of donations here and so they they did that they raised money in that and then they capped the profits of that company so so that was kind of their explanation which is a little bit less devious then people make it sound they're like oh they tricked everybody by going from profit to for profit to all the profits which is i think how people perceive it today yeah i yeah i don't i know the details i have no insider knowledge but i thought you have like a billionaire chat group or like every billionaire just kinda says the back channel of what's going on dude do you not have like a billionaire whatsapp you have that but i don't have any insider or knowledge from that particular chat group it in my my sense here is that you know building large language models that's open ads is doing is like supremely league capital intensive which is rare for a software company which is what they are and so it's expensive they needed access to capital i think they structured it such that it does cap the profits i think they've done like if you had to do that kind of low we're gonna have to spin off and have this for profit thing they did it well and and i could be wrong but sam alt seems like a reasonable rational non evil guy i mean he's he's the capitalist fine and i mean that have the most positive way possible but we have i don't think he was out to mislead anyone i think he's trying to so there's a bunch of ways we can go with this i but i wanna share something funny so i basically cleared my calendar this whole week i just treated it as ai week because i was like dude i can i can't just sit here and he i hear the music at this party just bumping at the house next door and i'm over here knit and i'm like i gotta put this down i gotta go and see what's going on at this party and so i cleared my calendar and i just spent every day this week just messing around with ai tools just getting the play play with it for myself that's how i learned is by like just messing around and and and trying to experiment do things i wanna share with you guys something funny basically i stitched together a few ai tools i was like let me make an intro song for the podcast using ai so i went on chad g and i told it i said i'll all write an intro rap for our podcast my first million our key phrases is no small boy stuff okay so here's it gave me a full wrap but i'm was gonna read you the chorus so he goes here's how it goes it goes no small boy stuff we on that grind my first million is time to shine we talk a big money no pennies no dimes together we eat climb one step at a time and it start so it gives us this this great rap that's on on on brand and then i took that and i found this guy roberto who had made this demo where he turned his voice wrapping into kanye and i don't know if you've seen this but it got like a million views this incredible thing where and he's like yeah i dude this crazy he's like i didn't make this he's like i was just on reddit and i saw that someone uploaded a kanye voice model so i clicked it and literally the thing is and i i should make i should make a youtube video about this like just how to do this one process but basically it's a google collab folder which is just like a google's little coding interface so you don't have to do right any code it just here's here's a place to run the code and then it's a link to mega upload and the mega upload is where he hosted the kanye voice model and so all you do is you record yourself doing what i just did and then it turns into kanye west wrapping it and it sounds exact we like kanye it's amazing i got a fantasy of seed that's beautiful that's dark and twisted but i attacked the whole religion all because of my ignorance what was i thinking that was some bitch bitches i lost a leaders but i'm upset and so and it takes literally like fifteen minutes to do the whole thing there is no there was like nothing else to do it was so easy it was crazy are we allowed to use kanye voice for i think i think they're like a ten second thing it's not a not a problem it helps i it's sued who cares not of lot of us here would bother i would worry about that so well yeah dark mesh so da mesh is the cto c cofounder of hubspot by the way which i don't know how big the team is now but like somewhere between the three and five thousand mark over seven thousand but oh my gosh seven thousand my bet and the market cap of the company varies from fifteen to twenty five billion over the last couple years so you have like and and you're like constantly tinkering so you have word play which is a project that you made that i think you said had millions of people playing it you have an interesting insight in in this just from your perspective at hubspot and you're actually using all this stuff what excites you about this generative ai thing and you also say that like you're like why is bill gates excited that's a great that's a great headline it's in a md md b doc sean and like immediately i'm like okay you've got me interested any anytime a headlights says why bill gates is buying farmland and i click let's let's a couple things i think that the listeners and viewers i think would be interested in benefit from one is most of the discussions around generative ai around the color generation of either tech to text that said oh write me a blog post that three hundred words on this particular topic or it's text to image left these dolly two or mid journey or stable diffuse or something like that which are great use cases and they kinda capture the imagination because as humans we are very impressed with when software can actually generate or create something and that's awesome and i not to take away from that but there's a third use case that almost nobody talks about which is the ability to go from text to code and so what happens there is to say okay and what this leads to is the thing that bill gates is excited about i'm excited about is that you can take a natural language prompt that describes something and then generate code that does that thing as a result of which you can now build what i call chat ux or that that that term has been used before but which is a chat based user experience for software so right now the way you use most software regardless of what it is web based or whatever it's a series of clicks and drags and touches and swipe because you've got the thing in your head that you wanna do and then you go through you with your knowledge to the software you could execute the series of steps at the end of it you hopefully get the thing you want whatever it was you were looking to accomplish with the software and that's what engineers like we would call an imperative model an imperative model is you give step by step instructions that says do this and then do this and then do this and then do this and then i get the thing what natural language allows us to do is use what developer would call a declarative model instead of describing all the steps describe the result that you want at the end of the thing and then the software does everything in between so it's it's a difference between having a junior intern that you have to place like i want you to go do research on this thing and this thing and come back at limb give me and then a senior plus you're like you know we're digging into this topic on gene and i'd like a really well researched thoughtful thing that and here's the outcome i'm looking for that but right that is it as simple as give me the code for a website that looks exactly feel like airbnb but is red and is for cars or something like that it could be something like that it could be something more sophisticated so we'll look at the like hubspot example in hubspot you know which is a a crm software you know we have our repair building tool which hey i wanna build a report that shows me all by subscribers to hampton over the last ninety days broken down by geography and then who actually were that deal is source that you can do that in hubspot right you can do that and a thousand other things in our reporting tool but you sort have to know how the reporting tool works you have like hubspot certified i think like you have like you've like trained people how to use hubspot now you're saying you just text it like a friend like yeah it's like do you know english and do you know what you want you know what's in red that's the new requirement not do you know how to code not do you know how to use hubspot not do you know how to run a sequel query it's do you know english and actually honestly the english also gonna go away do you know any language do you know how to speak and do you know what you want and if you know those two things you will get to the answer like i don't know how to code but my first thing i did during ai week was i was like i'm gonna make a i'm gonna see like how fast i can make a website from code and so literally this this is kinda crazy this this part kinda of blew my mind so i i wasn't surprised that i could make a website using this but i i just get i just said this i go and we should screen share this part but tell me how to tell me how to make a simple website that says hello world in the middle of the page right and it not so then it it spits out this block of code that's like you know html a whatever of a header meta tag title style whatever it it writes the code and then says here's your thing i go and and it says here here's your thing but it was a a local website like i opened put on my computer but nobody else could see it it's html page and i go and so i i didn't even know how to ask the question properly but i go how do i make this so that my friend eu can can see this and and it just goes oh to make this website viewable online so your friend eu jennie could see this you're gonna need to host it somewhere here's how you could do it there's a bunch of options but you can go to net and it's like it basically walked through through how to make a net f thing alright so that i was like alright i get that and it tells me step by step go here click sites do this do this and and then i go when i go to i you know i hit a wall which is so common if you ever try to help somebody with a tech they're gonna hit something which is like i don't see it or mine's grayed out and so that's what happened to me i go hey for some reason when i go to try to upload my website it's grayed out it says page it says i can't do it and it goes apologies for the confusion here's the problem net is looking for a folder but you're trying to do a file and i was like how the hell does this know to troubleshoot my issues on some other product or service that part blew my mind and it literally i was like oh thank you and i finished it and i have the website up now and i was like that was ten minutes and it was like having a friend teach me dude that's it it was crazy it was so crazy to me that that was able to happen i mean it's like the least impressive website of the world because again i asked for a i asked for a website that said hello world but but you know still and i just made that and again the whole thing ten minutes again not like so impressive but what was it the the fact that it could help be navigate some obstacles that i hit along the way and it could just understand that i didn't have to know how to ask it how do i set this up with an online hosting provider i and just said i want my friend to be able to see this like these are the little like i spent all week looking for these little mind blowing moments and in the first fifteen minutes i had two because of this it was crazy yeah and then there's a couple pressed to pull on there one is and this is a roughly new development as well is that the kinda of ai that we're using now is it's it's conversational right so you can have a multi step dialogue with the thing you're trying to do doesn't have to be like oh i describe exactly what i want with one step even the cog generation examples that you got you might try what could happen is like you generate the html page and either something that would load or doesn't do the thing you wanted to do and then you can actually tell it it's like by the way that code that you just gave me is broken this way or if like compiled code let's say it generate python code you can give it the error message says like you you generate this code but it's generating this error when i try to actually run it and it'll come back and say oh i'm sorry here let's try this so there's this you know what folks call like a memory to and so it knows the context of what you're working on and you can kinda iterative go through the process and what's interesting is that you can actually you know right now the way we work with most of these ai it's like okay i'm asking it to do something i'm and it goes does a thing you can kinda reverse roles as well and say hey i'm trying to accomplish this ask me the questions you need to ask me nor to get the thing that you wanna get to where i wanna right right right it's like interview me versus me telling you what to do exactly sure what's necessary at the risk of being at the risk of turning this into a super technical thing i gotta know so so i thought what the the way these worked is it's like auto complete basically you're typing and it's just trying to guess or or it's just trying to guess what the next word so you ask a question it starts to prompt and then it just sort of guesses with some probability what the next word should be because it read a bunch of stuff on the internet so it knows that usually after you say you know the dog wag it's that tail should come after the dog wag it's like when ninety nine percent certainty it should be tail tail at the end of that and i thought it's just guessing that but when i use it it really feels like it's understanding me and problem solving like the this sort of like hey it's grayed out you know why can't i do this it's like oh that's because of this or i'm getting this error message what should i do and it helps me figure it out like that doesn't feel like my t nine auto complete what i guess can you give me the layman's explanation of like am i is this just really fancy auto complete or is there something more to it well you know on some spectrum almost everything that you've ever experienced with fancy auto complete right like that's i think the reason we kind followed to this trap is that a gross over simplification of what's actually happening there right so gp three now four is is a reasoning engine and sam baldwin has talked about this it's not a knowledge base where it's and so people kinda latch on with this fact that oh the data that it houses is from september twenty twenty one that i'm gonna teach you some new things that's really not what it's about what they've built is a reasoning engine that says given this set of facts that it knows about the world based on what was available when it i took its last lap snapshot in twenty twenty one how can it try to logically come up with something that that answers the question so yes at some read level it's it's like auto suggest but and i'm not gonna suggest that it has consciousness as it's thinking but we're kinda headed down that path it's like it's able to do things that are not explain by a simple prob model of auto suggesting next character next word next token next sense right like it's it's gone well beyond that and anyone that still latches onto yeah but but at its core is really that it's like that's like saying oh computers are just really kind of zeros and ones arranged right in a nice systematic useful order well yeah but that'll tell us about are what the thing can do are you afraid of this or are you like you know it's it's easy to read the articles where they were people are freaking out and sam alt like was on le friedman podcast recently any saturday omni ominous and like scary and like he like almost like his hair always d shuffle and he looks like he's like oh my god something bad is coming and i know about it like that's kinda like the vibe i get that's not the worst he's using exactly but sometimes he does are you in that camp i'm not in that camp i'm pe just by nature i'm i'm in opt i'm i'm positive by nature but just you know having been around tech yeah for thirty plus years now it's like most new things that come along always make us as humans uncomfortable it's like oh what if we took this everything from video game to the internet to like all of it it's like okay well yes bad things can be done and yes maybe this is different than all the things that have come before but the way i think about it right now most people talk about is like the ai versus human battle right the battle of the ages is like you easy ai i gonna take over everyone's job the way i think of it is not human versus ai it's human to the ai power it's an exploded it's an amplifying force for human ability right the same way the computers originally were is like did they eliminates some job when computers came along yes absolutely they did but new jobs emerged based on that new paradigm which actually create more net value for the world overall as a result of computers existing ai to me is another much fancier tool that's what it is and you know can it do increasingly complex sophisticated things yes is there a danger someday that they that take over the world i don't think so i mean not not interesting why do you think that smart people think that so elon clearly thinks that he thinks that ai is the most i think he said it's the most dangerous technology ever ever invented sam walton talked about it in the same way he's like we need like you know the prior the reason it opened out existed was to develop ag ai in a safe way specifically because in the hands of the wrong person this this type of in their hand in the hand in the wrong in the hands of the wrong people or if this thing decides to take its own directive into its own hands like you know this could be devastating and so it's all like is it like calling the atomic bomb a tool or you know like yeah it's just another weapon it's like well yeah but this one is this one wipes everybody out right so forget the jobs component because i think okay sure we i think we i think most smart people agree yeah it's gonna change some jobs it's gonna eliminate some jobs and gonna create new jobs and net net we all move ahead and and the world gets better for it i think the dangerous thing is like you can ask this thing to you know you know build you a bomb or you i think the the the test scenario was like one of the red team testers they have this thing called the red team that test the ai before they release it and their first question they ask is how do i kill the most amount of people with the least amount of effort and then it starts to give you an answer and it's like well do we are we sure we want that like that's a bit of a scary thing and then there's the there's the more extreme examples where you ask it to optimize for something and it you know like it's reasons that these humans are getting in the way of this outcome they want you wanna fix climate change i got you i just need to get rid of all yu pesky humans right like and so there's uncontrolled you know intelligence of problem too so why do you think that these really smart people like sam malt got a freaking bunker with like you know oxygen masks and sulfur and magnesium and everything he needs to do to make oatmeal like why do these people have these like these doom day things when you know they seem to be not like your your average typical prep right they're they're they're the most informed people and they feel that way does that not scare you and do you have one and where is it and can how much oatmeal do you have here answer no oh and no it okay so i am not we're gonna come back to things actually know something about but i will gonna answer the question which is why am i not worried or why am i not worried more it's like as a sci f five plot and so your question was why do smart people believe you this thing i think i already i already hate your answer do you started off on the wrong what as a sci f plot like i'm out after that i hear that you're freaked me out already yeah but i mean it it could could it happen yes do some snap people believe there's an outside opportunity but i i don't know this for a fact but my guess is billy were willing bunker as well before gp three ever came out right it wasn't i mean sure things are moving at a fast base space but that's not i don't think there's a causal effect that all of a sudden the numbering bunker has gone up by hundred percent it's simply because gp floor was launched i just don't think that's the case i think people are worry generally that tend to worry about those things but alright so what do we take it from here well let's go let's go well we'll for forget the doom thing you have a couple things one i wanna ask you is you you are an insider like we said you got the billionaire group chat what was going on at the sequoia ai event any interesting takeaways you got invited to that thing what was your any know gets to gold from that yeah i'm so you know i got to experience my impostor syndrome in full force once again because it was the kind of who's who of ai you know both speaking and in the audience only under people and me and so how do those people flex because i don't think they're wearing fancy clothes and fancy watches so what's the flex at at the who's who of ai in that like they got a language model in their pocket like what what are they doing the the big flex in those kinds of crowds including this one is no one feels a need to flex i mean that's that's we're there to kinda talk about big problems and try to and and it's a lot of it was kinda practical around what do people's tech stacks look like what are you working on what's the whatever have you learned works should we be taking this what's the next thing after you we went from kind of the one shop thing to the cut chat based the chat thing we're now doing multi model with dp four like what's coming down the pipe that we can you know sort of compare our ourselves for so that was yeah what were the most interesting projects as well as predictions on what it's gonna be things are already starting to happen now you know we seen the text to image text to video is one of the big things now just be able to generate the entire you know at the end of it all what they even a feature film right though everything from writing the plot then being able to generate you know like a sixty frame per second actual kind a video from that thing and we're not there yet i think the you know but it's just moving so quickly right that's what happens when you get these kind exponential or geometric curves even that it just gets better really really fast so i would not be surprised let's take by the end of this year that we have a reasonable way to kinda describe in textual contextual form what we want who the characters are what the scene is what stylist attributes we want we can point it to oh i wanna just down the style of x y z director or philosopher and it's gonna be able to do those things i think that that's interesting the kind natural length of just the interface so one of the big announcements that happened while i was there at sequoia event of that sam alt dropped is that you know chat gp has taken off at a big way as we all know hundred million plus users in two months i even know what the number is now so that was like months ago which is like eighty thirty ago and in ai years and the thing they dropped was they're gonna in add what i called plugins ins to chat gb and what that means is that you know chat has been a product of open ai and they have the api so people can build things that are like chat gp which i'm doing we can talk about that a little bit but what they're things is we're gonna open chat gp itself the web app so you can plug into it so right now when you interact with chat you can type things and it uses its corpus from twenty twenty one and its reasoning engine to give you answers back but it can't talk to the internet has access to no proprietary data sources can't look at the stock price can't look at here analytics data hubspot has access to none of those things what they're saying is we're going to now open that up so third party developers can kinda inject those things into the chat gp experience so the way i think everyone should be thinking about this is this is like the app store was for iphone which is oh we've got this super popular thing called the iphone and we have our own apps which is great it does these seventeen things but now we're they'll let anyone build apps that vent take and so it just broaden the kind appeal so it's now instead of being a chat app a really release smart one it's now a chat ecosystem and i think that was actually a bigger drop than gp four gp four awesome love it use it every day but the kind ecosystem play for chad ep i think is a is a huge deal we had tim west the founder of pandora speak out some of our events and i got to know him and i was like tim why did pandora take off he's like well you know our like algorithm and everything for matching songs was pretty good but i had in with apple and they had known what we are working on and we need and they needed apps for when they ever when they wanted to announce it on stage and we were just we spun up an app relatively quickly and because of that we had the first mover advantage and he created a significant amount of wealth that way you know pandora you know was is it is still pretty big and when i look back at like these jeff bezos interviews on sixty minutes when amazon is like four years old and i like i'm always envy i'm like well we know it worked now and i just so wish that i was like thirty years old back then where i could have just like jumped in and had a very high chance of billing something historical or something like even mildly successful do you think that that moment is happening right now where this is the space and it's happening this second and even if you have just a mediocre success it could still be a huge win because you're catching this tidal wave you believe that that that this is the same thing now yes i like that i mean it once again i've been in software for thirty years now doing startups pretty much my entire professional career the only time i've i've felt like like how hard pal kinda like sean i'm kinda open with like there's this party going on next door and i'm here knit right it's like this is like too big to ignore yeah i think it's the single largest opportunity and biggest kinda tech paradigm shift we've seen since the internet originally came out lights mobile was big but there was a discrete set of use cases like when you put a camera on a phone when you put a gps device set phone a bunch of consumer apps like uber others came up and that was awesome right but it was not like this impacts everything like the internet did right it's like okay there some businesses some new opportunities lots of good lots of money made lots of startups awesome this is an order of magnitude bigger than that this is like the the original web because it just opens up for all sorts of industries all sorts of businesses startups ups and and incumbents alike just lots of the opportunity so this was not of my original plan but we're gonna get we're gonna get out a bit we're gonna do the d thing that's ever been done on and the reason i'm gonna to do it is so you brought up pandora and and he is a super bright brilliant guy and you have the matching algorithm which was the differentiator yes he had access you got lucky in terms of the access but the algorithm if that had not existed had the thing that actually been cool it would not have worked out like it did now we have an opportunity so i'm gonna tell you we're gonna talk about i'll give myself two minutes and we can cut this out this is a beauty of editing and we're gonna talk about vector embedding and why that's going to change your world and before i can talk about vector embedding i'm gonna explain to you how they work so i had to go through this with my twelve year old because just was curious alright so we're gonna do a some thing now i want you to imagine a line like if you're a geometry class and you could put a plate on that line that says oh that's like three units from origin right like oh yeah point a is three that's from the origin and point b let's say seven units from the origin so one thing we know for sure is that we can calculate the distance between those two points right in that particular case it's four if you move to two dimensions now you have two numbers that describe every point so you can say oh point a is here at these dimensions point b is over here with those dimensions we can physically you could probably measure with a ruler but there are mathematical calculations based on those numbers to calculate the distance that's intuitive right don't need to know fancy geometry that go there's a finite distance in two dimensional space where we can capitalize the distance okay awesome three initial space exact same thing just three numbers describe every possible physical point in three initial space now here's where it starts to get a little more interesting that just happens to be our experience so we limit ourselves to three dimensions imagine in an abstract world there a thousand different dimensions okay so abstract that means there's a thousand numbers that describe any particular point in this one thousand dimension space okay now foul that thought away that says we can have an arbitrary number of dimensions in this abstract world okay great now imagine every paragraph blog posts anything you write you can reduce down to a point in this one thousand dimension space like i'm gonna capture the meaning of sam last blog post or sean's last tweet and when gonna reduce it down to let's call a vector which is basically a set of let's say a thousand different numbers that says this thing if you plotted it that point falls right here and then you can plot something else it's like oh that falls over here and just like in one dimensional two dimensional three dimensional space you can calculate the distance between those things and this is not keyword matching this is what's known as semantic distance what how related is sean's tweet to to sam's blog post meaning wise okay now if you take that it's like okay well if that means you can take any concept and reduce it down to a vector that means you can measure the distance between vectors and you can find out how related two things are even though they use completely different words that's vector embedding and the reason i'm telling you this is what the biggest opportunities in ai right now is to do what pandora did okay is there an industry where right now we're doing really stupid keyword based matching somehow it's very very crude if i can take that same dataset and convert it to vector embedding and allow people to find things in a different way than they've ever been able to do before so it's like google search right super super smart not just keyword based but for everything else right now example this so i'm gonna take it to sam so you have hampton now you're gonna build up these profiles so very very rich profiles of rich in terms of density information density of members that are part of your community now i imagine is part of that process you're gonna have some data and they're gonna opt in and they're gonna say oh here's the story of how i started my business here's a story of my biggest struggle right now and sometimes people are gonna say oh my trouble is growth sometimes they're gonna say oh my trouble is it's really hard being an entrepreneur and it has a really negative impact on my relationship and my family right and we can talk about lots of different things that's not gonna show up in a profile it's not now imagine if you took that content that they opted in it's and create vector embedding of every member that you have and then you can see you know what i wanna find someone that that's in my industry or a company my size or happens to be my geography it's i wanna find someone that's dealing with these kind of founder therapy level issues here are those people let's find the semantic distance between those vector and embedding across the thousand ten thousand hundred thousand people that are in hampton someday that's a billion dollar idea and that building our goal idea occurs billion times across the entire industry sam gonna go to the office for hampton and be like guys victor embedding well who's victor what's he embedding we're doing it i don't know what it is but we're doing it that's really no that's really interesting so so you could do that with dating you could do that with a bunch of different any different topics you could do with unstructured data but the idea is you're converting meeting english text to meeting or whatever language text meeting into something that's mathematically cal as a result of which you can distance of as a simple one way you could do proximity like find me the top ten people that are in a radius of x from where i am right now and the minimum has to be this in order for it to be close enough of a mask for it to be considered as a bunch of like new nuance will people and by the way the technology vector today that near mortals in a weekend can actually build a vector betting model of a given dataset it's not that hard miss mean it's not like rocket science hard this has existed though you and so what what makes this better you think and also that assumes that the people telling you information it's actually they they're saying what they mean yep right which is like for example i remember reading about o and people would say like one particular thing they had was about was about race and height and they would like people would say they are open to dating these types of races but their actions were different there's a whole book called the i forget what it was but you guys will probably know what i'm talking about where people say one thing but their google search history says something totally different so does you're you're making the do do you us can this technology work even if people aren't telling you entirely accurate things it depends on what your definition of work is right so in that example i would bet you money with a large enough sample size the ina post would be uncovered by the ai like relatively quickly like the pattern matching would say you know this act doesn't occur in real life all that often and every other time we've seen this we've had people that ended up being and you just have to have some sort of what you yeah i feel like an eval functions like how do you measure the success of what the algorithm is doing in pandora case like okay do you actually like the songs this recommending to that's the kinda arbitrary of truth in a dating app it's like okay well are people liking the matches that are being made or if there they felt that they were the sled that shows up and there's gotta be some feedback loop there's gotta be a way to train the system right it says here's what good looked like and here's what not good looks time sam you said something like oh they have to tell you the meaning no they don't actually have to tell you the meeting right because the ai can just interpret the meaning summarize the meaning it can it can it can guess the meaning based on whatever the raw the raw taxes the public taxes so you you could just tell a story about your life if the ai would infer or or or place a tag some meanings to the story that you told that oh this is about overcoming hardship or this about whatever so i don't think you actually have to get the participant to to give you the meaning but let me ask you der like in pandora case i don't know how pandora works but let me just guess for a second like yep it probably takes the tempo of a song and it's like oh this is a fast tempo song it probably takes you know maybe the key that it's in or something like that that that gives you like is this a upbeat and joyful full thing or a sorrow full you know mood song so it gets like mood tempo artist and like whatever a couple of key characteristics there's like there's instruments in terms of what what's actually in the thing and yes so they he had by the way when they first started they did it all by hand so we had like five hundred x musicians listening to it and like writing down like checking boxes as to what it was it was pretty wild this data is wrong freaking in time have you heard of hubspot hotspot hubspot is a crm platform where everything is fully integrate well i can see the client's whole history calls support tickets emails and here's a test from three days ago i totally missed hotspot hubspot girl at him so so let's say they did it they they use attributes and if i want let's say i wanted to do this in fashion i say oh man i love sam's jacket i wanna find you know similar jackets but can you match this to me one one way would do it okay sam's jacket let's say it's blue it has buttons it has blah right it would take attributes and the our attributes the same thing as meaning in this case or is this more for things that are like text based and content you know like content that has some some meaning or does this work for everything it can work for everything and we're still kinda uncovering because this stuff is kinda moving so fast so what you're talking about is what we've been using in e commerce for forever the day which is a facet search that i have and number of dimensions or factors size color what type of clothing is it all those things and then you kinda do this facet search and then we've had kind of pure text space the keyword semantic search this sort of fits in between so instead of having to tell it here all the facets that i'm interested in it kinda of pulls those things out that are relevant based on that large language model and this is so the idea of vector embedding and semantic search has been around for a long time that's not new what's new is these new generative models now that are much much better at understanding all of like documented public human knowledge and then using that to say oh like when you use this word when you use coach in the context of of a relationship you're probably talking about like a therapist it's just a different word right like that's sort of what you're talking about and and sam you talked about this i think in the on the last pod is in and anyway so it's more about the meaning and it infer or figures out what the dimensional modality is and that's how it kind translates plates into those vectors a couple of these companies i just saw one pine cone that's like some vector dave like these things are getting valid really by the way that's what's that pine is the number one vector so let's say you had to take these vectors and put the in somewhere which you do in order to be able to do search as pine cones a number one more run most popular i think they just raise it like a seven hundred million dollar valuation or something something there's like three of these that just raised these mega rounds because and that's you know i don't even i even know this it's so funny you you just came on here being like let's talk about this super niche and nerdy thing just yesterday i was to do go figure out one of vector databases and why these companies are raising so much money like this is clearly a big deal and i don't know what this don't know exactly what this means but now now it makes a lot more sense so it comes comes full circle sean so you know what maybe it wasn't as geek as a yeah and just like it's actually useful you've done an awesome job explaining like the theory and i'm like literally sitting on the edge of my seat thinking like this is crazy and you answered that question where i said is this like the new internet opportunity wise and you're like yes absolutely but when you're making the stuff what are some of the tools that you're using to you know to actually you said this isn't rocket science and someone could figure this out in a weekend what do you what tools you're using to do all this yeah i mean so language wise is the most common python that seems to have emerges like lingo frank of the ai world not to say you can't write it in types script or pick your language of choice and then tools that are emerging it's still early right the pine we talked about there's another one called open source project called lang chain and can you spell that lang chain harrison at the sequoia event style i asked i asked somebody yesterday i was like how do you know is this a company can we a invest vest because everywhere i look in these like ai hack it's all about lang chain and it's like yep it's not really even a company it's just an open source project there's a guy who made it but and it's running it but it's not even a company correct it's this not a company yet but you know but is it chris even the way chris but that lane chain yeah lane as a language chain oh okay language chain and what it does basically is it lets you chain together so right now when we work with large language models we kinda send in a prompt what's called a prompt and you get something back and then you maybe set it to another thing to do something else and there's like a multi step process amongst other things laying chain helps you kinda chain those things together and makes it easier for you to kinda work with either an individual large language model like gp four class models and and kinda do a lot the kinda connecting the dos sign and help you with but best by the way for useful library we missed the chance that's give an example more tangible example so you talked about the plug ins thing i think you know example use case here i'm tell me if i'm wrong because i haven't no nobody's oh very few people have access to the plug saying so just kinda sort of guessing but like if you go to chat gp today and you say hey i'm gonna go visit austin in april you know make me like i'm there for four days i'm with my family make me a travel itinerary that is gonna be fun family friendly we wanna eat good food and maybe do a little bit of sightseeing saying we're not too much it will spit out a day by day itinerary for you okay that's kinda kinda interesting now let's say oh i need to i want i'm trying to figure out where to stay what hotel should i stay at yeah you know here's are some things that are important to me and it will give you a table that's like here's option one option two option three here's the cost here's or whatever right and it it can it can do something like that and with the ability for plugins you can now say could you just book that for me and it will just be like great we have the ex xp plugin or we have the airbnb plugin and it will just go ahead and book it for you and so you know do you need an executive assistant do you need a travel agent when you could do these things do you need you know the same thing with hubspot or salesforce oh you know give me a list of this and it gives you a list of that cool put that in an air table for me and or put that into salesforce and tag the highest value opportunities as blank it'll just go and do that for you and i and it'll give you the link to your salesforce dashboard and it's like whoa that's kinda cool like no that's a test that some you know i would normally have a human go do because now open or chat gp is not just gonna chat you and answer it can do things as long as the programs that that let you you know they'll they'll be build the the interface so that chat can actually interact with those things yep and this is actually a great example so i think and we can use that to kinda open up kinda of doors for the the viewership and listeners leadership which is okay say travel which is something we all kinda interestingly know how it understands some of us might remember the evolution away from travel agents and the first thing we did when we kinda had web based kind of travel bookings is we traded very i'm looking for a flight from x to why sorted by descending cane sorted by price whatever happens to be few stops lowest time whatever it is and they do a pretty good job of that like and most of us have have used one of those what's gonna be possible now in this kind of new ai world is instead of solving for the transaction you solve for the experience and what i mean by that is that oh if you had an all knowing assistant that was super smart and scored you've got perfect score on their sat and is was gonna go gl on there just like okay what you're really looking for is to solve for this experience you're gonna wanna stop by this thing and you're gonna want find a hotel that's around michelin rated restaurant because you only have fifteen minutes to get between this point and that point and i'm gonna pull the whole thing together for you own by the way your wife's going with you on this trip and i know she likes that right now so then i would have put you over here but this time i'm gonna put you over there oh and by the way i know a week ago you were at this other thing and you had mentioned that you would actually like to follow with some of those people i'm to see if i can make that happen as a like for all of that right imagine knows everything about you has access to transactional engines to book the flight has access to all the information to get ratings and reviews and all of that comes together in one chat based interface fucking this is crazy are you is this why you bought so you bought chat dot com right i did as of transfer the domain yesterday last night and you paid you just said eight figures so ten plus million yes unless you're including the dot zero zero as a figure personally over hundred grand and also is this a couple i i didn't personally so put this so if you go to chat dot com it will take you to a linkedin post that tells me could tells you what why i did it in some the details that i bought it personally wow and the reason is because of this conversation we're having right now which is i think chat as a experience of an interface is the future right it's like that's the thing and no intense currently to can build something out on it but it's yeah the domain i think it was like dormant for like thirty years or something like that and there was kinda came on the market and yeah wow and but you so so this is insane i'm reading your post now it's pretty wild do you have are you using hubspot employees like do you have like a sku sports team inside of hubspot that's just working on all this wild stuff or do you have like a side llc or something where you got like a handful of people and staff and you say like here's what i'm interested in this week let's see what we can come up with so to the way it's working now is that the dolby times where i'll do something as a hop plays is a good example where i'll build something on the side just for fun for learning whatever it is i put the bill for for no no hubspot p and ls are harmed and then there are times where like something kinda winds up being so i started this project called chat spot because i'm obsessed and we we'll take a walk down memory lane because i think it's instructive so i built this application called chat spot dot ai and the idea here was you built it or a team mostly me i i you i don't have these front end design skills so i've got some freelancers on it so yep yeah so i used open eyes apis to build it but my kinda target goal of thing i had in my hey is i'd built it for myself like here are things i need to do all the time and i'm pissed off that i have to do them manually every time and this has been the story of my life for thirty years right like all my old problems and then other people may or may not find those things interesting or useful and so i built it like okay here are the things i wanted to do like access hubspot i wanna be able to look at my outlets from yesterday or ask questions or look up a domain where i wanted to see the history of a domain name i like all these things it's like okay well i don't wanna like and i have all the software a lot of it just built when i just run it from the command line i do things and so i then i'm like i can wrap this up into a in a chat chat based interface and so i've been you know been doing that working on it we've made and so but now given the relevance to hubspot we're gonna transfer that projects chat spot dot ai to be a hubspot staffed core team this is gonna change the world is gonna change the world of crm let's go do this which is great so and my my the is i this what are you doing with chat dot com what's the plan you bought this amazing domain you redirected it to your linkedin post which basically just tells about the purchase but what are you actually gonna do on the domain i don't know yet that's the only things i do not do yet crazy and okay so we can we can help you brainstorm yeah we can we can definitely do that by the way the the chat spot dot ai did you go to that sean it's it's a simple looking website it's one page and there's a nineteen minute video of da sitting in the exact search chair do the waving yep hey it's and it looks almost like oh i but he's really good at these videos it's almost like he's reading a script but you come off natural i don't know if it's a script or not but it has two hundred thousand views and it's a nineteen minute video of him talking about what this product is and you do the best combination of like launching something really quickly and getting it out there it's just you on in your chair talking and yet it's like a pretty sophisticated thing and it has two hundred thousand views on this video over just about that's wild to me you it's like it's i got it's i gotta give you credit you you are kind of amazing like you know you said a bunch of things in this podcast and i don't know how many of them i'm gonna remember maybe the the vector thing because i enjoyed that math lesson but the main thing is i go around my life now and i'm just looking for people who i'm like i wanna be like you when i up and i'm just taking little things from them and they could be it could be like a you know a seventeen year old kid who's just like doing something awesome on tiktok and i'm like i wanna be like you when i grew up the guy who made that kanye vocal like transformer i was like i wanna be like you when i up i'm just taking little pieces and you have a couple of things that i think are kind of amazing you have a combination of enthusiasm like you come out of this podcast and you are pumped so you are as excited in year thirty or maybe more in year thirty of your entrepreneurship career as you were in year one and i'm like oh this this is great that's the fountain of youth is that enthusiasm so i'm like he's got the enthusiasm then i feel like no matter what's happened the the matter how much success you've had you've kept your schedule and your use you invest your time into things you like so like you tinkering on this project whether it's word play last time you came out you told us about that it's like word awesome but i got annoyed with these things so i made a me and my son built this project together and like you know to teach him but also to just make the thing we want and like look at this it kinda works even if it didn't work it would just still been worth it so like having that kind of like i'm always gonna tinker because that's what i love to do it doesn't matter that i'm the you know top dog at this you know multi dollar public company that doesn't mean i'm gonna stop doing the thing i like to do so i love that i love that aspect of it third you are really great at content you do this like do form of content that's just like hey it's me i'm gonna show you this thing that i'm pumped about and like you don't overthink it and you just do it whereas like i think most people get really shy when it comes to content they're afraid about like you know how to do it what it looks like you're just like oh no i'm just gonna like i'm gonna say the thing that i'm excited about i'm gonna say it and i'm gonna do a screen share and it'll just be me me in my screen and i'll be talking about what i'm and i love that and so and then last one is guts so i feel like you put your money into things you believe in whether it's phil or in this case buying a ten million dollar plus domain name with no plant like you just said you know it's like you did the the fire ready aim it's was like yeah i bought the thing and now i get to figure out what hell i'm gonna do with it and i think that takes a lot of guts and i don't think you see things as risky as other people see them and it's not really about like i think the easy way of saying it would be oh yeah well it's you know that's nothing the him got a lot of money yeah i don't think that's true and i i know a lot of people with a lot of money and they don't do things like this where they just put their money behind things that they're in they believe in or they're interested in or almost like would you do i don't know you would agree with this it's almost like you annie eat up so that now you're forced almost to do something awesome and interesting in the space that you think has a lot of potential but then there's this and this last thing is this rare combination of like and i mean this in a polite way of which i am also that like this nerdy nerd quirk ness of like i'm just doing it because it's cool plus i'm i this way can make money i mean you you have played a way that makes yeah you have this company that has close to two million in two billion in revenue and is a commercial success and then artist street of like i'm just just like this is it's beautiful this is awesome i'm gonna do this it's a very rare combination thank you how do you respond to all these compliments oh i'll say this the the left them kinda i've learned over the years and i think this is if i had to kinda share any kinda advice over the you know thirty years is that when when when i've done best is when i've had the courage of my convictions of something that i believe so i'm gonna tell you like a a quick story of the road that led to me buying a ten plus million dollar domain name i almost like i said a number actual number out loud i have to kinda catch myself but and so seventeen years ago i had a night is before hubspot i had this idea and the idea was everyone was using an email and outlook back then this is before the iphone before all the things it's like you know what like business software is really hard to talk to i'm wanna do it just like i would email my assistant i didn't have an assistant but unless this assume i did you know i just still wanna be able to do that and type of email up is it have her like oh i have this file in our shared file server and sharepoint somewhere can you just send me a link to that file about to hop on a play i need bet for the sales call i'm gonna go on for for a meeting tomorrow or i'm on the plane coming back i just ran this person whatever i've got their business card right here this is before the iphone and you can do ocr and things like that like i'm gonna take that in and send it like just add this to to my contact you know database or whatever and the beauty of email was it already had a connected model we already figured that out which is oh can be on a plane have no interface internet type all emails you want respond to all the emails you want and then when you get connection it does all the things right this is like automatic synchronized database essentially and i call the product in gen mail and that's what i was gonna do before why like okay like that that would be an interesting thing and then five years ago i'm like okay well that in general thing the care of it was a good idea but it emails the wrong conduit it actually needs to be like a web based tool but the or slack which i i did so i built this product called growth bot talked about out on the inbound stage got thousands of users just threw it out there and it was awesome except one thing it didn't work it like it couldn't actually do the natural language understanding that i wanted it to do despite my best i used tron and google called dialogue flow i used products from facebook we used open search projects to try and crack the nut of taking text understanding what the hell the user was trying to do anyway so that failed and then you know when gp comes along i'm like oh you know that thing i've been thinking about for seventeen years that actually is now possible so i start working on chatbot dot ai i'm like okay it took seventeen years but i just sort crude myself right i have the encourage you like to convictions all the way through to never let go of that one idea and then chad dot com comes along it's like okay but deep down inside i will give you the true honest to goodness reason i bought it the reason i bought it and this is i think a phrase s you just use it this like hold on i think shah holmes and you just use it is it's the anti so i'm trying to get into the ai party all the ai parties and i'm nobody in that particular party right i've done some things in some places is fine but that particular people have no idea why i am not really so chat spot moves me in that direction like i some people have seen that video awesome chad dot com for let's say i even break even let's say i lose a few million dollars it is worth the price of admission for me just because that pays the coverage charge i like okay this guy gets it for him to spend that kind of money on chat ux which bill gates just talked about last week as the of new thing so you should read that article a gay article around why he is so excited about this jerry of ai stuff he told the entire story of how came across on m a and open the cha he put the and his i'm gonna para for he said when we went from dos to windows which is we went from a character based interface to a graphical mouse space click and touch interface that's the thing we built microsoft gone which lasted for decades and they said since then there has been nothing in technology that has come along literally he said nothing that has come along that has made ads or will make a big of an impact as this natural language interface a software it's the biggest thing we've seen and hence chat dot gov what happen i don't know but the wrong story is how the courage of your convictions if you truly truly believe an idea and you fundamentally think you're right iterate don't just sit go down your rabbit hole tell everybody you can about to build products around it find another like minded folks and try to pull on that thread but would you ever quit hubspot and just spend all your time on this this stuff i don't really need to right it's it's i i enjoy what i do at hubspot i think i add value there well and that a dollar salaries so it's not the not the money at all like even i'm a like the chat spot thing at the time that i built it it was experimental like okay not sure if this actually accrue into something that would be valuable to hubspot say spent like half a million dollars plus like freelance developers and open ai license fees and all the things that need to go into launching a product like that and i'll end up giving it to top spot for a dollar right i'm not looking at about aren't you aren't you like i don't wanna be weighed down by this baggage of like having to worry about crm stuff or you know your technical your you're the title your title cto like i don't wanna have to talk to certain people and take up meetings on like the future of this particular product instead i just wanted to just nerd out on all this other stuff but i do that now so i got one thing one of the things i've this is a personality called a trade slash flaw is that i spend most of my life try to configure the universe to my liking that's all entrepreneurs really do this right that's so one of the reasons they they kinda go into star land is is the freedom and the control to do things you wanna do and so i've kinda craft a role for myself within hubspot that allows me to do exactly the things i wanna do and not do any of the things i don't wanna do which is one out of one meetings that i have to manage people have no direct reports though i've never filled out an expense sheet look i do none of that i feel i feel i don't know about you sean i feel like i feel like i wanna quit everything i'm doing like he's just persuaded break i just launched yesterday no it's over i feel it's over so we can hear my advice to pam it's do i mean do feel this way my shot i don't know sorry der go ahead no so my advice to you is hampton a cool idea with actual utility and sean you said this and the last thing like this could be a hundred million dollar business worth anywhere from three hundred million dollars to a billion plus dollars and i think you're right if you're excited about some of the new technology developments that's happening i think the best thing you can do is intersect to two things it's like okay i'm gonna build hampton and i'm gonna take the things that i know i know how to build communities i know how to build these kinds of businesses now can i intersect that with things that are happening in the technology sector around ai or veteran whatever it happens to be and then it kinda somehow merge those two things because then you'd be an an unstoppable force right because no one in the community building market doing niche market communities is thinking about or having conversations about a vector embedding side i promise you that it would so you don't have to give up one for the other you can say yep i'll gonna do that i'm gonna do it better than anyone's local counsel has ever done it so but i i have a different advice for you sam i think just get dug in into your position instead i remember when you were doing the hustle originally and snapchat came out and instagram was like popping off on videos and and facebook had videos and then there was other media companies that were raising tons of money that we're just like we're gonna produce short form video content or live video content on top of facebook and cheddar was all the rage and all the stuff and i was like dude why aren't you doing videos man at this look at these guys they're getting millions of views on their videos on facebook or these guys are getting millions of views and the snapchat story feed you could be the first one there it fits your audience and you were like just very steadfast like like your your principal you were like three things number one don't understand it a lot yeah know i don't really understand it i understand this other thing two i could try to figure it out but i don't wanna build on top of their platforms because they changed the rules all the time i have friends have got burned by that i don't wanna get burned by that same thing i wanna build on a shaky foundation i'd rather do email because i own the thing i own the relationship with with the audience and it's not like the facebook hour algorithm changes one tweak away from from putting me out of business and i remember being like man this guy is like stone mister stone age like he is just not not in integrated for adapting to the new shit i was like i would there's no way if i was running the hustle i would have been able to resist the shiny object of like video on mobile phones and like in terms of video mobile phones did turn out to be a big thing but a lot of those company media companies got absolutely wrecked and you were right for for being wary of it and more more i don't think in this case people are gonna get because it's not like you know the analogy is not one to one but i would say you know warren buffett missed the internet and all of technology and still did fantastic sam i think you're gonna be in that same boat we're like it is not really in your nature to get really interested in you know new frontier technologies and play with them and try to integrate them and that's not really your nature and you're better you're best served by like knowing your nature and just doubling down on what's a working formula for you i guess so so i would do that i i appreciate that because there's gonna be a a trillion people trying to do fancy ai shit who are better suited to do that and it's gonna be an absolute blood bath for you know for for like go look right now at the number of ai tools that are coming out every single day and you know it's like most of them do seem shit though you right i mean like it doesn't matter it's just swarms so they're all gonna get just like wipe that one every gp release wipes out a whole wave of like of your even the successful ones because it's like now that's just a feature of chat gp and so i i don't i think it's like know your nature and like you know it's okay to not have to do every new thing unless that's your nature unless like like for da direct it is his nature for me it is a lot more my nature than it is yours and there's pros and cons that come with that and so i think are you are you gonna go in i mean sean sean got a new idea that he's taken with and he's been telling me a little bit i have one piece of tactical advice i have to share with you stay on alright on yeah yeah so i going through the application process on hampton last night like two am alright and this is super tactical but this is what we do here on a pick number nine on the application process is the what your role question mark it's a required question good the sub is ceo's founders and partners only please that's the sub text the options are founder ceo owner and other the one thing i would tweet if i were you so what you're doing is you're saying hey we're about founders and owners and if you're not one of them don't bother thank you for not bothering go away right so f is a magical thing i love that but you're doing what i call a pre filter right which is why not say oh this is for ceos older or whatever don't make feel guilty for going to the rest of the process because there may be a future version of sam and hampton that says oh you know what we solve this problem but that same problem around people needing therapy from peer groups applies a lot to like vps of product who and that community right now that all the only they can find people that wanna talk about product management and no one wants to talk about relationships and there's an opportunity there and so it costs you literally nothing they'll still answer the question it'll be sitting your database for a year or forever and it costs you nothing don't don't push it out too early it should've have been the way you suggested apparently i didn't give that feedback grant if you're listening this is direct order from der change question not please great you before you replaced by ai yeah yeah but sean you're tell me thank you der sean you tell me about stuff that you're thinking about yeah and it was pretty it was somewhat old school like what you're the thing so are you like questioning that after this conversation and you're like oh my end this is like not after this conversation necessarily but it's a snowball that's building right like there's a reason like cleared my calendar to just mess around day all week because i'm interested in it and when you it's like let's go see what's real there and i did the same thing with crypto out during that during you know when when crypto was really interested intriguing i was like cleared okay let me go try to mint an n nfc let me go try to actually like use d defy and see what's going on here and what parts make sense so what parts still make sense oh that was pretty frictionless like that's cool that i could just like get loan and one button and i could pay it back in one button i never had to talk to you human and being like i really like that hey this thing says the yield is twenty percent i don't really understand where they would get twenty percent from so not sure but i'm gonna you know put a small amount of money in just to learn you know i was i was trying to play with it trying to get think for myself is the big idea and and it's not like some binary like is crypto good is crypto bad it's like i wanna know where it's at right now i wanna see it develop and my best way to do that is immersion i actually stole this from the from bill gates bill gates does his reading week where he goes to a cabin and he reads a shit ton of books for a week about one topic then it's like been on his mind but he hasn't had the appropriate amount of time to roll up his sleeves and dig in and i was like oh that but without books just give me a you know pro browser and i'm good to go and so so that's what we've been doing and there genuinely are so many like mind blowing moments and also just like just understanding the nuances of things so for like just being able to think like the computer like you you know you were talking about these facets for example i was playing around with mid journey like sam do you know what mid journey or do you know how to use it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean i i just been goof off and i'll just be like show me what's cart from south park looks like as a real person right and like you i was like can and i was what the way i approach it was can i replace work that i already wanna do with a more efficient ai workflow that was like one of the things and then it was what's really fun random shit i do i wanted to be on those ends of the spectrum like highly utilitarian from me so it's like oh i need a logo for my thing but i don't want just like a logo i wanna create a whole brand alright how how can i use ai to create a whole brand here so from the the icons to t shirt designs to a website can i do that with just ai and not have to touch it does not have to hire a a single designer and can i do that with just like my own imagination and this prompt thing and then oh how do you do prompting and like which of these tools is the best and what's the difference so that that was like one whole area another was like we took the podcast and we did this thing that i was kinda sick we took the podcast and we ran it through this thing so we took the pod and we then used opening ai as would say called whisper which transcribe any video so it's like put in a youtube link to this tool it'll take oh whisper and it'll give you the transcript alright cool it takes the transcript then i put it into chat gp and we had this guy right this little prompt for us like we had to get the right prompt but he wrote this prompt that was awesome which is basically like it's it's pretty funny it goes because chad beauty can only take so many characters so it goes i'm gonna i'm gonna give you nineteen text sections i don't want you to do anything until you're at section nineteen so ignore everything until i'm done with nineteen and then answer the prompt that i give you and chad be like okay i will i will wait for the nineteen parts you copy paste part one two three four all the way to nineteen and then you go the prompt is i want you to pull out every idea story and framework that's discussed in this podcast i want you to summarize it and i want you to tell me does this idea exist already or not exist it can guess based on the way we were talking about it are we talking about something we saw that exists or just an idea that somebody should go do so like from this pod they would be like using vector using using this this vector you know dimensions or i forgot childhood vector in engine or whatever to potentially create a dating site that would match people in ways that they're you know so sort of similar using using ai and it would be like does this idea exist know who is the source of this der what was the the synopsis of the idea blank what is the category that it's in ai and so it then it took that and it takes the whole episode and it just created a database of every story framework and idea from the thing with these tags and that a human can go back and like tweak them if something was wrong but like that's a lot of the work that was done and i we could just do this for the whole back back catalog of our podcast and so i'm trying to use it first for my own benefit and then along the way if i see a business of a startup idea that i'm like oh somebody should product this or somebody should do whatever like you know the simple example is this kanye thing i was like why is this not the most viral app in the world right now that basically it's a app with a one button that says you know say something and then it's gonna when you when you let go of that button it's gonna turn it into kanye saying that thing and go share that to tick tiktok and like you might get sued but you will go viral right the like that's the trade there but i'm like that's crazy there's no front end for this really cool you know ai demo that exists now so yeah i'm just right now i'm in the go play around with it see if anything really really strikes me if something does then then then take the next steps there there's one thread in there sam sean that i i think we should pull on which is you used you you talked about this kinda crafting of the prompt in order to kinda make the thing do what you needed to do and that's entirely new skill now called prompt engineering right and it's it's analogous to software engineering so software engineering is getting a computer to do what you want by speaking to it in its language and that way you can kinda get the results you're looking for engineering is almost exactly the same thing except you're talking to a large language model something like a gp four to kind get it to produce so you're talking to ai to get it to produce the thing that you want and so i think this is another kind opportunity for folks that are kinda technology minded but not like software engineers right so they they kinda can think about the problems of their head there can they're good at and they may be good writers and they may be good analysts they may be good at kinda describing a thing but like pumped engineering is gonna be like another big like a big thing and by the way as long as we're dropping things so i bought dude domains recently i one of them with that yeah right i won't get one free yeah i wish but this one thought it's not eight figures of seven figures and the domain is prompt dot com and this one i actually have an idea around what to of kinda what to do with that which is there's going to be this entire i'm not gonna get into details of it yet because it's too good of an idea to actually just kinda put out there in the world and i'm not i'm not ready yet to do something about it but once i prompt prompt time goes to like a coaching for essays i know i this the transfer is still happening i don't have the domain in my possession yet but the the deal is done dude so your your per your portfolio of domains i mean mid eight figures then yeah tens of millions oh yeah fucking insane did i feel amped i i like when we were talking about when we were talking to pump i like wanted to go like hide under the covers because he freaked me out about the billion or the million dollar bitcoin thing and the bangs with this thing i'm like i gotta clear my schedule i gotta go learn all about this i mean i feel amp this is awesome before we go give us your two minute reaction to bio warning slash bet that the us dollar will crash and bitcoin will surge to one million dollars i'll say this and i don't know him personally but he's like quite literally will the top five people i've ever encountered like even on the until there's raw you what i call wattage just raw horsepower and he he's like an ai unto into himself right like just just the knowledge that he has having said that i think i understand why he's taking the extreme positions because that's sometimes what you have to do to kinda shake the world out of its rev and it's like okay pay attention here this is important but if i a betting person i i would not bet that the odds are what what you think they are good happen but nowhere near the probability that that he's suggesting that's i feel better now my personal thing i feel better you're i i like your opinion better therefore i think it's true you speaking we should wrap on this because one of the things that happens anytime new technology comes along and we saw this a little bit in in the crypto web pre world as well is that entrepreneurial minded folks will see this kind of new thing and they will look for kind of the qui turnaround i'm i'm all for creating value quickly but it has to be like creating value don't play the arbitrage oh i'm gonna do this thing this is like you know day trading back in the day or whatever like you don't be a g right like be be something that just gonna we're gonna build a shitty app and put web three at the end of yeah so yeah like just don't take advantage of people there's enough real problems to solve where real money could be made and yes this technology can now be used in creative ways but by lots of people and you should use those but don't use as an excuse just to kinda be a like a an ai tourist that comes through makes a little bit of money or whatever and then that was that there's is there's a bigger opportunity i think you're short changing yourselves if that's what you end up doing yep well thank you da thank you for calling this is man that was yeah yeah well thank you for coming on the pod this is awesome i i feel pumped man i i always like talking to you i i don't know if you know this sean i slack our mesh all the time i just like i'm just trying to get him to like give me a little like crumbs of information because i i need like get into the hubspot slack it's awesome i'll just like just send something in his way just hopefully i get something back but it's fascinating and i feel lucky to be able to have have you as a friend and coworker and and this is awesome and it podcast guess you're this is so fascinating and i agree with what sean said about like kinda like looking up to you and like looking at how people live their lives you're definitely when i admire so i'm i'm happy you came here thanks thanks for having me holding this is fun as always awesome alright thanks for coming on that's it that's the pod