Big Fish In A Small Pond, LIV Golf, And Financial Freedom

have you heard of this thing called live golf i thanks i'll live i don't know how you pronounce to l live nah what's live golf live golf okay so you know about the pga tour it's like the the main it's like the nfl ten right no golf so so live golf is a competitor to the pga that just a the saudi arabia effect exactly saudi backed rival and these guys are basically trying to it's like they're trying to spin up a new league by a brute force they're investing hundreds of military i think they pledged yeah yeah me too big big swing so this is not this is the opposite of sbs right so this is bd yeah so so basically they they they put the the saudi public investment fund put in they pledge four hundred million dollars just i think they've even committed more than that i thought they offer tiger woods like five hundred million or something crazy news came out yeah they offered him eight hundred million dollars and he said no which is like just kind of an insane thing so start but they have signed other huge stars so phil mick you know dustin johnson this guy you know brooks ke or whatever who who recently won the the he he won like four majors or whatever cameron smith who's was like this is a young he signed a hundred million dollar deal dustin johnson a hundred and twenty five million dollar deal phil mick two hundred million dollar deal they offered tiger and didn't get him yet da alright what's going on dude how are you fantastic so i have something that i've been thinking about that i've been wanting to talk to you about i started have you ever seen that video of ado off hitler at the berlin at the german olympics in nineteen thirty six when he's watching the olympics and he's like rocking back and forth have you ever seen that bro you can't be blonde haired blue eyed and coming on here starting off saying have you ever seen my favorite video of hitler know no no have you ever up the charts bro we're trying to go up have you ever seen that video of him like he's like basically he there's this video that i saw a couple weeks ago where he's at the olympics and he's rocking back and forth and he's very clearly on drugs like some type of coke or something like he's on drugs and i started so getting curious about it and i started looking into this and someone in the comment said that there's this really good book called blitz so i bought it it's right here it's called blitz and basically it's a it's called blitz drugs in the third right so basically after reading it hitler and a ton of the nazis as well as just a ton of germany starting in the nineteen thirties like morphine heroin and meth was invented and they used to think that it was like a miracle drug doctors were like take this meth it makes you feel great it's like this it's like a it's like a it's like a miracle drug like get you get euphoria you you wanna stay up all the time you'll eat less it's this wonderful drug and like it was a legal drug that bayer you know b a y e r the drug company now they were like selling the shit and they would even put it in chocolates and there was like a chocolate that you would eat that had a little meth in it and it was like always satisfied or something like that and like it was so common and turns out hitler was a junkie he was getting injected with meth for years and that's one of the reasons why you know like when they were getting bombed the very last minute he was like oh no we're doing great because he had like these like you know he was like hall you know he had like with thoughts of grandeur the typical met shit and i started thinking about this what other stuff in history was supposed to be one way and be happening like one time but turns out it was for a totally other reason and i started looking into so for example henry the eighth he was have you know what protestants are no that's a heard that word of thousand times i knew do product sickness no so like there's like the catholics and then there's the the protestants it's basically like if you're like an evangelical christian if you're a baptist if you're like all these other different types of christian religions you're probably a protestants maybe by definition you are anyway someone came up with it like martin luther came up with it and and and in the fifteen hundreds the king of england he basically like had like eight divorce because he couldn't have a kid like but it was it was him he was infer and the pope was like hey you can't have these divorce anymore this is bullshit and he's like no i fuck that then we're gonna switch to protestant because that allows like you know me to get a divorce and i can have all these kids and so now like there's a billion protestants in the world because he just turns out like wanna a divorce and then like there's this like there's this like story that you're you you don't you ever know how barcelona people say barcelona really funny like barcelona list yeah yeah yeah there's like this urban myth that the king of spain had a list and someone's like hey you know it's pronounced barcelona and he goes no from now on it's barcelona because you know that's just how i say it that's just my first million yeah yeah it's like you don't mike tyson rule the world and was thinking about like what other stuff did we think that was gonna be like you know was for this like grand reason but it was really just like you know like the guy's dad said something like like george bush invading like you know looking for weapons of mass destruction because like his dad was like you know you're not strong like your brother and like you or you know because he couldn't find the remote one time yeah get this complex oh we this like leftover over like mission accomplished banners like well gotta do something with it you know like what else like what else in history has been done just for like totally the opposite reason i don't know but i bet there's so much like i think about this with food all the time when i see oh you know you you know people like oh you know that the active ingredient in advil or aspirin comes from this like oak tree and like blah blah i'm like you know how do we figure that out like who was just knowing on trees i was like you know this one i had a headache earlier and now i don't have it anymore right like all foods what's like oh this one kills you this one's good for you it's like okay but like you know who are the testers who was figuring this out along the way i actually think that was probably like what's the most fun time to be alive was then when nothing when no knew anything about anything like you didn't know what was food and what was not food like how much just random soil has been eaten by somebody being like this has to be food and then somebody else is like you know sees a chicken running by like no i think under that fed under those feathers there's something there there dude there's all i think like that toys like that and i never research it so like have you heard about like the invention of lsd no the guy he was it was a european doctor he was trying to like a doctor right yeah he was just trying to make like i forget what it was but sometimes type of antibiotic like just something normal and he got a little bit of the shit in his skin like he like touched it funny and he was like oh my this is awesome and then he like starts tinkering with it even more and he goes alright let's try this and he gives himself a huge dose and he starts running home on his bicycle he's like the nothing's happening like this didn't work and then all of a sudden hits him and he like has the biggest trip of his life and then like you know it changes everything yeah i feel like pen there's a whole bunch of drugs that were discovered by by accident for sure yeah it's it's i i mean i don't know where you wanna go with this topic but i don't wanna go anywhere i just thought i have interesting topic this book like i just been reading this book about drugs in like the nazis and i was like it's crazy like the book says that they at the time and then thirties and forties when world war two is happening that something like sixty percent of german doctors were addicted to morphine and they are the ones like you know voting on what the laws we're gonna be around you know how these controlled substances are handled it it it's it's it's crazy it it it changed my gets and change my perspective but know what i mean it's just like a an interesting read let me tell you a interesting story have you heard about this math teacher in florida no no these stories can go one of two ways yeah yeah yeah i did dog was he a dog about i i've not i i mean this can go bunch of different ways yeah is there a funny like viral video of him in a seven eleven no so i get this so so so brandon was telling about this this is kind of amazing so there's this guy okay so you know like you know there's like kinda like a school competitions whether it's spelling be or math competitions or whatever so there's this math competition and there's this kind of strange thing going on where one small schools not a private school has won like fifteen out of the last seventeen of these math competitions and people are like god what is going on at like buck holes high school and the story is kind of amazing so there's this guy will frazier he's a he starts as a banker on wall street and he's doing like bond training or something like that and the guys you know this is like in the the eighties he's like you this the heyday of of of where you know you've ever read those books like liars poker and things like that it's like the heyday dave of wall street people making a tons of money he retire by twenty seven so he's made a bunch of money he's like dude this is too stressful of a lifestyle how much should he make i don't wanna do this anymore i don't know exactly how much he made but enough to retire a twenty seven so let's assume it's you know like i would say ten million dollars at least okay that's my guess he buys a ferrari he drives down to florida he's like just dreaming of like a slower calmer life he's like you know what i'm just gonna go to florida bought this ferrari i'm gonna just play a bunch of golf play a bunch of basketball and i'm just gonna hang out do ferrari he does that yeah for for a decade he's you know that guy you see on like tuesday at one pm just like hanging out at the park and you're just like how you you don't have a job like what's going on he's that guy he does for ten years no income ten years he's just chilling and he plays a bunch of golf and along the way he's sort of like yeah you know what like feeling a little aim don't have a great you know purpose in my life at this point so he's like he reaches out to a local high school and he's like hey can i teach golf over there they're like asher and he comes over and teaches golf he was like i like teaching actually even on wall street actually i i liked teaching the young guys so he's like what what else can i teach like a finance class you know i'm a former wall street guy made a big retired i teach doug no we don't have finance but you can become a math teacher if you want and he's like alright i'll do it and so he goes and becomes a math and he walks in on day one and he's like listen let me tell you this right now i don't need this job yes guys you guys can be any shit this will be my last day and they're like okay you don't respect and so he it gets one day he's like checking his mailbox as a teacher and he sees this math competition coming up he's like like that's cool let's try this so he enters into the math competition they go there and they get smoked they get fifth out of sixth play so there's the second to last and and he's like dude i couldn't even solve some of these problems like this is hard but like the flip you know the switch got flipped the competitive switch in him gets flipped and he's just like actually i like that competition i missed the competition of wall street where it was just like completely doggy dog and you're were like high intensity and so he decides to do it again and again and again and he and he he he goes and need they get fifth the next time then they get third and the someone on and so forth and he be be basically decides that we are going to dominate these competitions that's exactly what's happening dude isn't now that's one we're like fifteen out of seventeen the fifteen or seven isn't and that the best when someone just like sees like a small opportunity and they're like no one takes us as seriously as we're gonna take this let's do it you know what i mean i love that's exactly what just like that cheer leading movie that we watched on netflix that it's like they just like check it yeah they take it to the the the highest discovered yeah the one that you made popular so the so the guy that so people are like dude what's your secret what are you doing differently blah blah he's like oh i just took a different level of intense like it's just insane hard work he goes you know average math teacher gets seventy two hours of classroom time with their students per semester and then they hope that after school some of those kids come and they learn for an hour you know once a week or whatever that's what they're putting in he goes oh i just switched it first i took all the good math kids i put them in the same class kind of like almost like you know the like blended of age but like he's like i put all the best people in the same class that they would compete with each other then we used our class time to start preparing for these competitions then i started creating summer camps where we can get eighty hours in four weeks so the equivalent of a full semester of teaching in this high intensity thing he's like and i just developed a program because they're like are you the best at athletes he's like no i don't even teach the advanced math stuff like one of my former students teaches like the hard stuff i just build the program he's like i put the high school students with the middle school students and that because the middle school students sort of idol the high schoolers and they teach down and then the the the middle school rise up he's like so i built this program where one alumni basically like the older kids teach to the younger kids the younger teach teacher kids gets even your teach the even young younger other kids and we just put in way more time he's like then i started scouting like this is like you know alabama football so he'll go and he'll look at the scores of other schools he'll find the high performing kids and he'll recruit them to his program busy and then the reputation got built where they started winning so now parents are coming inbound and being like please take my kid and he's like we only have so many spots i'm sorry and so he's built this like talent pipeline and not only that they actually the talent pipeline goes even further now companies like mackenzie and the big banks wall street they come recruit from his high school the big schools ivy league interns from his high school because they want his students now so he built like a a a platform for where they can go which helps them recruit even better students and so where'd did you see to happen what's that did you read this it's just like the i think they so he's been in just like the local florida news for while and then i saw something and what were you doing brandon i mean the article who's brandon no he sent this article from the wall street journal or something i was like pay so i only got the first paragraph i'm too cheap to pay for it but i was like oh what's the story and then i found all these local florida papers that they had the the rest and so they said like during covid and they were like you gotta teach remotely and he's just like oh okay yeah we're gonna downgrade the intensity he's like hell no i resign and then he went to a church rented out the church i was like hey if you guys wanna come and train here we could do this and a hundred and forty kids went and train daily in his church during covid when everybody else was low had to lower their in density he ratchet hall is this guy now so now he's like in his sixties and so he's been doing this now for like you know a number of years so he took he was basically twenty seven he took ten years off so he's was closer to forty ten eleven years off and then basically from forty to sixty he's just been dominating this one thing isn't this incredible is incredible this is incredible i think there's a few things one just the intensity number two i think sometimes if you pick like a lot of people including me we wanna move to san francisco new york la and try to become like a medium sized fish and a big pond i think there's so much to be said about being the best or a big fish and a little pond and like you can make a name for yourself and have a way better life like this random dude is having so much more impact by creating a map being like the guy for like this very small math contest versus you know a rich he's probably way more fulfilled than being just like another hundred million dollar banker dude i i wanna get diagnosed with a bad case of sps i want small pawn syndrome and like i i am a huge believer in this dude what i so i lived in houston in high school and houston i went to a big public school five thousand kids and kids from all over houston and basically i my life was basketball i loved basketball and i remember a game in ninth grade varsity coach i was on the ninth three team and i you know the the goal would be to someday be on varsity and the varsity coach watching her game and for some reason i think i scored like i had like two threes to start the game and then all of a sudden the most athletic kid on their team decided like nah this guy's not gonna like see the hoop again and he starts picking me up full court basically like from the moment i can move this guy's is like in my shirt and you know and i i i literally can't get by this guy like i'm trying to go left i'm trying to go right i cannot give by this guy and i don't know what to do and i'm just basically like getting so coach calls time out the the coach y'all time out the varsity coach walks into the hud and i think he's gonna give me this like epic advice maybe like varsity advice how am supposed to get by this guy and he just he goes you will never play varsity ba basketball oh my god i'll say what thanks coach tal he's just like if you can't handle this guy you will never like he's because he's like i thought you might be and now i see no as like some motivational thing yeah then he just gave you a while he walked away exactly y'all can merge lord yeah yeah he's exactly like that yeah i like to report a bully yeah yeah now it's is there a check for faculty but but he was right and in in the houston pawn i was nowhere near athletic enough to be whatever now luckily my parents a dad gets a job in in beijing we've moved to china and in the tenth grade i go to china first day i start playing basketball you know that's for honesty these kids don't get protein it over there yeah just don't get protein and everybody sc i'm blowing by everybody varsity coach walks over he's just like hey what's your name i end up being captain of the varsity team you know i got a girlfriend like my life changed for the better like everything got better because i caught sbs i got small small pawn syndrome and i was able to go be a varsity player over their captain of the team captain of the of a football key of a football team in rural alabama with a hundred students they live the life screw the big city live that life you know what i'm saying and there was a part of me a foggy part of my memory that remembered like you ain't shit through the main i wash to wear yeah hey quickly got washed away like i thought it became like you're the shit you're the shit you're this shit and that that that's what you wanna do in life this guy this guy doing it right i actually have this dream too i was like i just wanna retire and coach high school basketball like i think that would just be a lot of fun and and and yeah you know this small po thing i think we're onto to something i i've thought about this for a long time i thought about moving back saint louis for a minute but my wife wasn't down but i was like dude i could just be the man here you know i gave buy a million dollar house and it would make the news you know what i'm saying right a million dollars in san francisco in new york is a studio but i was like it would be it it would be one of the biggest purchases of the quarter i would make the news it would be awesome but then i realize i you know i don't wanna do that yeah i i don't fire do bro what else you got by the i i have straight fire today if you want you want more than i've got fire too i think do see what i have in there no i don't even have the thing open oh well fuck well you could screw give one well okay so i spoke to like a a bunch of different companies this week and they gave me all the revenue all the profit and a few of them are interesting and i could just like bullet point and quickly go through a few of them you wanna do that by the way explain why does somebody you why does somebody just give you all the revenue and give you all the profit as you say because it sounds like a unrealistic ed like you sort of like tricked them but that's not the case i said actually going okay so i've got this like community that i'm running that i'm not gonna talk about yet but it's like a ceo community and when they joined they tell me all types of interesting information so we could place them in the right group and i messaged eight of them and i said hey can i talk about you on the pod and can you answer these questions and am i allowed to reveal all of your information well if am i allowed to reveal the information that you gave me and they said yeah sure so that's how i got it so not nothing like crazy which one you wanna do alright i got a couple of them actually give me the most interesting one first let's do okay well here's one that's actually not i don't even think put it on here but have you ever seen those pedal tavern in like nashville and denver it's like the bars that you like pedal with like a is there they're honestly pretty obnoxious but you don't i'm talked about no pedal what what it's called a pedal tavern so basically it a bus like you never see i guess you don't like leave the suburbs of san francisco but in a lot of other cities denver austin nashville like these like style cities there's these things called pedal tavern they kind of look like imagine a bar in the middle and there's eight people sitting on one side and eight people sitting on the other other side now imagine that being on top of a four wheeled platform and you're pedal that platform while you're drinking booze you've never heard of that but you're outdoors right yeah outdoors on the street yeah yeah so yeah it's like a some party thing yeah gotcha it the guy who created one of the first ones is in the group and his name's pete and his business does he bootstrap it from nothing just out of school it's getting close to eight million a year in revenue and just the pedal tavern do about five million dollars a year in sales quite profitable and they're using the profits to buy the real estate that their pedal tavern stay in overnight that's a pretty interesting business let's see another one is have you heard of let's find another one have you heard of you probably never heard of this so here's an interesting one there's this business called the peak it's ran by this guy named brett so it's a daily newsletter so it's just like the hustle of morning brew whatever mostly bootstrap only in and it's in canada and so every day gives you the news you need to know about canada can't canadian news only a team of ten ninety thousand new newsletter subscribers not that much and doing about three million revenue with it with a million in profit pretty good business a small team of ten ninety thousand subscribers fifty three percent open rate sixty seven thousand monthly podcast listeners the guys were like kind of good writers but not really that good and they just started like writing and cold emailing people and hiring riders and after two or three years it's already at about two or three million in revenue so what are they doing differently because that's more revenue per subscriber than most i think so that right yeah it's pretty good but basically he they just said that with in canada like there's not that many there's not as many publications and b to b advertisers soft software companies they don't have that meant money places to advertise and so these guys have just done a really good job of getting the banks the telecommunication companies b software companies all these like high end enterprise companies to advertise with them gotcha that's pretty good okay we'll do one more i wanna tell you about a company find you can go okay great okay i wanna tell you about a company that you may have heard of have you heard of this thing called live golf i think i'll live i know how you pronounce to l live or live wait l i yeah just like not what's live golf live golf okay so you know about the pga tour it's like the the main like nfl ten right no the gulf so so live golf is a competitor to the pga that just a the saudi arabia fact exactly yeah saudi backed rival and these guys are basically trying to it's like they're trying to spin up a new league by brute force they're investing hundreds of millions military i think they pledged yeah yeah me too big big swing so this is not this the opposite of sbs right so this is bd yeah so so basically they that they put the the saudi public investment fund put in they pledge four hundred million dollars to start the link i think they've even committed more than that i thought they offer bigger woods like five hundred million or something crazy news came out yeah they offered him eight hundred million dollars and he said no which is like just kind of an insane thing so but they have signed other huge stars so phil mick you know dustin johnson this guy you know brooks ke or whatever who who recently won the the he he won like four majors or whatever cameron smith who's was like this he a young star he signed a hundred million dollar deal dustin johnson a hundred and twenty five million dollar deal phil mick in two hundred million dollar deal they offered tiger and didn't get him yet but and phil can only be on it can only be on live and not pga exactly so it's a competitive so pga is like there's like i don't know sixty events a year or whatever and then there's like four majors what these guys are doing is like there's eight events and they all matter they're going for more of like the nfl model versus baseball right baseball has hundred you know almost two hundred games a year and you know they don't really matter but this sort of always something on whereas the nfl is like there's like seventeen sundays or eighteen sundays and like they eat each one is gonna matter so that's what these guys are trying to do with the golf model and to like put this into context you know tiger woods you has earned a hundred twenty one million dollars in all of his pga winning like over time you know obviously he makes more through sponsors and and you know other sort like paid events and things like that but just from the pga his lifetime i think earnings here are a hundred twenty one million so live is coming out strong and basically giving these guys like tiger woods lifetime money as a guaranteed contract instead of the way the pga works is it's like there's a prize pool for a tournament there's nine million for every tournament the winner gets three everybody else gets like a a piece to depending on how you finished and they just do that over and over and over again and so they do forty eight events a year and and and so live comes in and they basically get giving guaranteed money away instead of saying you have to win in order to be there and so pga makes like a billion and a half dollars yeah i'm looking now revenue one point five a little over one point five and you know eighty five percent of that is like their their tournaments and the media rights and ads and all that stuff that comes from that they have like a nine year and you're one of a nine year contract and then mister steal your girl comes in and is starting to just take these stars away and and basically is is trying to you know compete with them they also have like price price money as well and so they need you know they would need to generate like a billion dollars as well to sort of like have like a similar economics but what's the play here is do like middle eastern watch a lot of golf is that the stick is like that the i i i i don't know if that's why like maybe like you know there's like that weird thing where like russia really loves like women's basketball i don't know if you know no like if you're a great women's basketball player you play college in the united states then you try to make the w nba and the w nba pays you basically nothing like you know you'll make like seventy eighty k yeah like a shoe salesman salary and then you'll get like three hundred four hundred k for playing the off season in russia yeah and everyone's like why does russia care this was about women's basketball like nobody has questions and like yeah it's a little bit whatever i i don't know exactly what's going on there but but that's like you know they disproportionately like that sport and so maybe there is something in in saudi arabia for this or it's just they have a huge amount of money and they see the business opportunity where pga basically had a monopoly on and if you can create a successful sports league these are worth billions and billions of dollars like we both love the u usc u sold for i think four point two billion dollars which in my opinion is under now like very low undervalued for where it is and that's like you'll see like fringe compared to nba nfl like these major major major league what's more popular and golf or p or or u c golf right golf i think golf is not more popular but it generates more red but what's more lame as it's like sort of the wealthy who beats up who call with their club or a e fighter with his hands i i fucking hate golf i hate golf i cannot just stay golf there's golf got a sports the golf activity it's just honestly obviously how much of your thinking at the end of the day boils down to who could beat up who most most i think that i think is that's like that's like something that we're all like like we're all afraid of like the guy who at the end of the day is like oh i can kill anyone in this room with my bare hands he is you know he's the true the true dog you know he has nothing to fear somebody said this once i was reading like a nfl scouting report like there was a draft there's four quarterback they're were all like top prospects he's like who's gonna go number one who's number two and the guy who does like the draft he said this line that i thought was so bad as he goes if they were all on vacation and going for you know they they're walking out to go to the car they would all throw the keys to mark if you would check the keys our mark's drive and they were it was like this like alpha male thing and i was just like what was analogy and why did i love it so much like if you just said that if it was like hey elon jeff bezos mark zuckerberg bill gates go out to dinner who's paying who's picking up the chat yeah yeah yeah who ordered the uber yeah it's none of these guys are front do you when you're at a room like at a restaurant who sits aisle how how what percentage of the time when you're at a restaurant do you look around and be like who's asked can i kick and who's can i not zero real real percent but i know that you do which is why i ask you this question because it's hilarious think about that zero zero percent of the time dude i can i cannot stand golf any sport that you wear khaki pants to to like play it's not a sport that's not a sport it's an activity it's a hobby it's checkers but it's not you know like it's barely a job if you have hack barely a job yeah like a sport is sport is out of the question but like khaki in a collar shirt that is not that's i mean that's not a sport like you you you don't sweat it's an activity it's a hobby this is amazing though i i i don't like let's get rid of the saudi arabia thing i think it's pretty cool but if you're phil mick and you have fuck you money hardcore and saudi arabia who has you know a lot of human rights issues offers you this what do you do do you take it or not so you double your network leak him so i think you can't take it alone in a vacuum because you're not trying to go sit on an island doing nothing by yourself and like lose all your relevance you lose your future earnings if you do that but are you what i do is as i say to them look i'm in if you can go get forty percent of this list to join and you could tell them that fills in if you're in and i would basically say you need to sweep the and a critical mass of us so that this is relevant that this is considered the top class i'm not gonna go play in the b week or the d league by doing this and i would tell them that and i would say i'll do it you're gonna have to cut the fat check of your life and you gotta go get forty percent of this list so there's a fact there's a price that you would take for sure oh of course of course if you you know if somebody said hey you gotta go to this podcast on on android and i'd be like android even there a podcast player on google and they'd be like yeah it's we're we're putting a lot of investment into it i'd be like alright alright i'll do that i'll take this podcast to sound cloud i'll i'll take it to the to the google play store but i'm gonna need to see seven and a half million dollars that's what i would say about this podcast i would i would move this podcast for seven and a half million dollars that is my price there's there's a price to paid to be a horror i'm down but so we actually were gonna do this so at one point in time i had a startup up that was based on like streaming of video games and twitch was the like nine hundred pound gorilla in the room that was like it was the big streaming platform and we were just like i we were trying to build a tool that worked on top of twitch like streamers could use it when they use twitch and it was working and every day we've come into work we worked really hard on this tool but like there was definitely a part of us that was like and how did we end up here we're making this like tool for twitch streamers that like is free and then we're hoping that we can like after they all use it then we might be able to monetize this other way we're just like this guppy in this like in the in the in the ecosystem in this food chain where like that little fish that like swims in front of the whales nose like whatever that thing is called like we're that and i was like i like fe kinda i was like man thought she just wanna be the whale he's like i just so badly wanna be the whale and i'm like yeah so what could we do he's and we're just like mate when went to the room which whiteboard like how would you like compete with twitch itself how would you just beat twitch and i was like did look at the numbers so we we like ran the numbers were like twitch has this insane power law where you can see that the top you know x hundred streamers we take the top three hundred streamers they basically make up all the viewership all the all all the meaningful viewership like you know i don't remember what the exact ratios is worth at the but like any power law it's like you know the top one percent or whatever makeup up a very significant portion right so let's just make up some numbers let's say the top three hundred made up fifty percent of viewers at any given time i was like so twitch is worth twitch sold for a billion dollars like a decade ago or whatever you know seven years ago it's probably worth five seven billion dollars now you're saying that if we could take you know half of that half if we can get to a quarter of that we'd be worth a you know we might we might have the equivalent you know twenty five percent the traffic we'd be worth know a quarter of worth they're worth which is like a billion dollars today how much money would it take for us to throw at those people right go get twenty five percent of that three top three hundred how much money would it take for us to go throw at them to be like come join our new thing and we like game theory the whole thing out we're like alright this guy makes this much today we basically need to offer him like ten times what he's making today how much to come move how much do do some of these guys make just on twitch so shortly after that the contract exploded but like at that time the top guys were making like single digit millions per year off twitch so like let's call it between one and five million plus those are some endorsements you don't really know how to track and you know they they sell some amount of t shirts it's hard to know and then it sort of exploded to guy started signing like you know ten twenty million dollar deals but they're they're they're like multi year deals three year deals or something like that so you know they're making six million guaranteed or something like that five million guaranteed ten million guaranteed so that was like they're kind of like or what our estimates were for the very very top guys we thought okay so how much would we need it's like we basically did the math and we're like okay i think you need i don't remember what the number was today but let's call it let's just pretend it was a hundred fifty million we needed a hundred fifty million dollars to go through with it but it's like if i told you you could go raise a hundred fifty million dollars and you're saying you needed a hundred and fifty million dollars order to pay the streamers and tell them bail on twitch come to our platform and when you come to our platform you're gonna bring your audience and we're gonna make all this money eventually through other people coming you get this much guaranteed all you have to do is just continue to stream and you have to promote it in this way and let us promote you can i make it five million to build this platform my prediction is that would never work i don't think that works okay so tell me why i'll tell you how how it obviously it didn't happen until though you know you're partly i think it could tell me why you think well i know that you didn't really try to do this but or i don't know in earnest i don't know if you i you didn't raise a hundred fifty million dollars i think maybe the pga tour could work maybe but doing this for consumers you need to have like a brand and you need to have some magic about it it's kind of like you know even if you put all of like the resources creating a boy band like sometimes that shit just don't work even though like everything like everything on papers it's like well we got the the blonde hair kid we got the mixed race kid we got the the dancer we got the singer like on paper this checks out you know don't like the shit work you know what be we should be popular in korea by this point and it's just there's there's just no magic right it it shit just happens and then like you have some like you know kid who just like sings a funny song and makes a joke about like wearing in a cowboy hat and he gets hugely famous like lil nas or something it it just happens and i think that there's like a bit of magic that probably would be missing out when you're because with consumers it's quite challenging to like grab their attention it's like getting a a cat to play with something it just sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't right so so so i do think that that's part of it but there have been instances where people throwing money at the problem and it actually worked right for every qui where you just raise a bunch of money you go try to do the thing it doesn't work for every one of the or every ten of those there's one where you're like no actually they did kinda just brute force their way and i don't know if you remember this but when tiktok first launched tiktok was lame as hell dude tiktok was lame as hell it was pigeon hold as like for the lame version of musically which was a pretty lame thing it was like twelve year old lip syncing videos and now tiktok is huge and what one thing that happened in between i remember meeting a guy and he was like yeah you know tiktok gonna spend a billion dollars marketing the app because i was like dude there's billboards in san francisco like at bus stops to download tiktok i was like do they really think this is gonna work and we had an intern not an intern like kind of just like a junior guy he worked for us he was a ninth grade and he worked at our company and i was like he he started mentioning tiktok and i was he's tiktok actually a thing he's like yeah you know we just kept hearing about it i kept hearing about it i kept hearing about it and then they started just paying all of the top youtubers and buying people to just make tiktok and like the work it eventually it just worked like it just like we all think it's lame but like we all kinda started to use it and it's sure enough the lame thing fell away too right by the end of and like became like a pretty amazing like tiktok really did brute force there were now they did a bunch of other things right good product great algorithm they did a bunch of things about i'm not saying they didn't do that but it's not like they started with this like brand love and electricity and like loyalty and things like that so let me tell you how this this twitch thing played out so i had a hunch that you might be right so i approached discord and i said hey discord do you wanna buy us and like maybe who are you and like what do you wanna what do you do i was like we do this thing today but here's what we would do with discord we would help you compete with twitch you have brand love like discord is one of the most love brands in gaming is like you have the brand you have brand love but you don't do this today we will build the platform and like we can use this strategy to do this and they were like well okay this is kinda like a crazy big pivot idea like respect the ada audacity who did you email what role i ceo and you said hey ceo i'm sean this is what i do kinda come to your office and pitch you and then you went to the office and told them that or you told them this all exactly exactly why did he take your meeting he at the end of it at the end of it his his take was basically like we will acquire you if you want i don't know if we'll pay the most so you know that's that's i don't know if the deal will happen and i don't know if we would do this but the fact that you can come in here and whiteboard this on a wall makes me want you to like come here things and like that's the who's like take that's the biggest bullshit artist like i've ever heard of and you almost pulled it off what was the guy like he's amazing he's a young a young nerdy dude jason ci yeah i was like i i never met z but i was like the way he talked about their product their strategy and like his like calm like confidence he's like quiet nerdy confidence i was like oh i don't wanna compete with this guy and i see why they've kicked everyone's ass like this is like this guy really smart end and just really like has a point of view about the way this needs to go and like is this simple it's understandable it's different why do think he can to feel like he's gonna actually get on that i think i had gotten a warm intro through his investor his lead investor i totally lead investor hey we're think about selling but i i went to him and i was like hey we're thinking about selling would you do this deal or not and he was like well you should first talk to the discord guys and i was like great you know this exactly what i was hoping for you know because i i just needed to create a bidding or of some kind to get the you know best deal possible so can he make that interest so he just emailed him was like you guys should meet you know here's his he's like i think he warm intro you should meet and i just said hey i'd love to come by the office today and like you know forty minutes i'll sketch out what i have in mind and like you know you can decide so funny nuts or if i'm genius i'm not saying you can decide for first but he respected it i don't know what i said yeah he was just like you know would you like to come like be one of the like c suite type people because i don't think we're gonna do that plan that you outlined but i like you you know like you know there's not i don't i don't we didn't get that dude this is how which you can be a leader everyone needs the confidence of a sean per this is a great story this is proof that you can just create shit out of thin air value yeah you can create value out this like at my last startup up the the best thing i did ultimately in that in that company was i did right by the team and the shareholders of like at the end i put my best foot forward to try to get us the most value we could that was like you know of all the things that did that was the best one and like i tried to do many other things well i try to find product record i tried to scale i try to hire a great team and i did some of those okay some of those poorly that's the one thing i did great was this this process let me i let me finish the story here so then so i'm like okay these guys don't wanna do it but maybe we could still do it and so we start trying to set up a meeting and i i realized pretty quickly oh you have to do this as one you have to do this as like a coup because it's kind of like a rebellion and that's i was like we need to do two things we need to wait till people are pissed off about something that twitch does which big companies will shoot themselves in the foot they'll come out with policies they'll they'll make some statement they'll change them feature they'll change the revenue split and people get annoyed i was like so we need to capitalize on that and then secondly we need to get everybody all at once you know that movie that's out that people like every everything everywhere all at once that's i was like that's how we need to do this we can't just get we can't just slowly negotiate one by one it won't feel like there's enough momentum and so i was like we need to do this at twitch big conference where all the streamers will go to all the big streamers go because most big streamers they don't leave their house they're like they're like me but they actually have like you know they're actually fit you know rich richard famous from their streaming but they can't leave their room it's like their job and so they they go in vacation very little they take very few days off the one thing they do is they often go to twitch con because they can meet their fans and it's the big event so i was like we need to do like a dinner the day before the day of war or the day after the conference probably the probably the day before i was like you know this might be the worst time because they're gonna be up in you know the twitch kind of like because doesn't but the only time we can get them all in the same room i was like and we'll lay out our case which is basically look you guys are gonna make stupid money if you all are in there's no risk to any of you individually because you're if you're all there this will actually work and see like you don't have to play my twitch other's rules anymore like you have you know say in this thing i can find this client in full have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform so it shares its data across every application every team can stay aligned no out of sync spreadsheets are bloom databases hubspot grow better did there's this like there's this like famous meeting that happened in in atlantic city in like nineteen thirties and that's when they it was all all the mafia guys that got together and like a capo component and all these guys and that's when they like formed like the syndicate or whatever you know like the mob and like you know it's us versus everyone that that's basically what you did you have like your little mob meeting and that sounds awesome i i didn't do it i wanted to do this i didn't even get there why because there was one thing that happened and when we ended up getting acquired by twitch and it was like hey let's grab a drink we'll celebrate so we go to the first time i met him like i that's outside the office if we go to this bar you know we're talking about stuff and i was just like you know i was like what do you think it how would somebody beat twitch hey he's like he's like hey hey he's like it's pretty hard we do have like a pretty good business and like you know hard to compete against these like marketplaces once they get you know about your meeting but you know you no no so i go i go i go we had an idea i i don't know if this would have ever worked we got very close and we didn't pull the trigger ultimately but i always wondered like would this have worked and i told them the idea he goes he goes yeah we thought about that like that i don't wanna quote them but like the the gist of what he said was if you were gonna do it that's the only way to do it but we knew that and that's why we started signing exclusive contracts with all these guys and specifically exclusive contracts that don't line up so we would make one expire in june and another expire in january another one expires and following year he's like so that nobody could ever like the they're all off cycle payment off cycle contracts so that nobody could come and like oh they're all gonna be four we sign them all right of he ass detail tiny detail right and i was like wow and then sure enough this actually did end up somebody did try to do this so microsoft came out with this thing called mixer and they went and they tried to get the top streamers they gave ninja like i don't know some stupid twenty thirty million dollars to come stream on make sure he said yes because he's like dude if i'm making four or five on twitch and these guys will give me thirty guaranteed to go sit here for two years alright i'll do it and they tell me like this is integrated with xbox it's gonna like drive me a bunch of new viewers cool and then they tried to get traveled and try to get a bunch of others but they did it too slowly and so so this attack did actually end up happening that was out of business in it yeah because they couldn't get the critical mass they couldn't get enough people to say yes so but like this did happen like the chinese streaming platform try to do it like a whole bunch of people try to do this against twitch at the same time interested a you know fairly good job of not only this off cycle contracting thing but also figuring out is crazy there was like this this this like theory which was how many of your favorite streamers need to move before you move and so they looked at like okay if i'm a viewer if i spend a hundred of the time just watching sam and sam leaves okay have a high likelihood of leaving but as long as i can get you to watch like four people the odds of all four leaving are very low and if for if one leaves i'm like ninety five chance to just stay how about the fact that they probably hired some like mit like rocket scientist and he's like thinking for years like i'm gonna i'm gonna help get man mars you know i'm gonna help i'm gonna be part of saving the world the human race i'm just a little small part of this but i'm helping and he gets his job offer from spacex and it's a hundred and thirty five thousand then he gets the job offer from twitch and it's like hundred and forty thousand and he's like yeah they got free lunch though like you know like it's it's like the office is down the street from my house i can do it i this this space thing will always be here you know like the their office is beautiful yeah and then they take that twitch office and then they spend the next eight years of their lives and the only point is figuring out how to make it so a streamer can click a button and like a cat pops up on their shoulder like like an emoji you what i mean or it's like how do i just make it so like on monday night football the first you the the down the yellow line moves perfectly with like the you how do i do that you know space will always be there though but like how do i get this like right right yeah i've just imagine someone like dedicating their lives to that that i that sounds horrible to me that is not far from the truth and in fact some people try to use that to their advantage like you know steve jobs did that thing where you're just like recruiting john sc or whatever he's say you know when are you gonna stop selling sugar water to kids and come like help change the world and scott harrison the ceo of charity water he's like i remember he came to silicon valley who's was recruiting for charity water and i was like how do you recruit from like google you this he trying to hire somebody from adobe i remember he's like yeah she makes four times as much time an offer like how why would she take a they got a huge pay like that like four x last he's like i just gotta hope that she wants to do something that actually mattered i like i was like well okay and he actually did succeed in recruiting a bunch of really interesting people but yeah you know it does happen like when you're at these companies he's like what percent of your life goes towards like being like you know can we get you know chat engagement up at point two percent like can we get the you know if i add this emoji of this like you know bouncing cat like are you thirty four percent more likely to come back next week like you know this there's a lot of life that comes out to you if you work a big tech company you're working inside of a slot machine and you're looking at this like person sitting down on the stool and you're like can i get another four quarters out of them and what do i need to let's they make that light flash over there hey hey cherries you get flash you that'll do my wife you know went to this fancy ivy league school she's just brilliant woman and she was at facebook when we started dating and she was telling me what she do she's like i'm a pm what's at stanford product marketing manager and i was like what's that mean was oh we just help people like we want more people to use facebook i'm like oh are you guys like the thing that puts like the jet above india so like they get free internet access like oh no not really well what do you do she's like well you know i create different products to help people to use facebook i'm like okay but what do you really do she's like i'm making it so you could put us sticker on your picture and more people will spend just a little bit more time on this app and i'm like oh okay yeah you you should quit right and like that's what she quit she's like yeah and when did something i actually she cared about but yeah i remember hearing about them like oh that's why you went into debt for all these universities and that's why you did all that was that you can you know walk around the facebook campus for like three hours a day and make like a sticker of like p the cat or whatever other the fuck that thing was called remember that thing p or what was that thing it was like a it was like a japanese cat no i idea what start that it it was called like poop remember how facebook the they would have all these like a japanese cartoons there was like that dog with his tongue hanging out i don't remember is the thing it was like p it was like a cat that was asian and like it was like a series of stickers that yeah it's it's the thing in snapchat that that dancing hotdog dog which has been seen more than like any cartoon or animation ever they've been see like ten billion times like hundred billion times or something like that it's like yeah this this hot dog is actually more popular than macy's just like the stupid ways the time it reminds me on that tv show silicon valley one of the apps that they said was amazing was nip and it alerts you of our rec nipples in your vicinity i'm like this sticker thing that's nip alert sounds good yeah honestly when i was there when i was i i didn't think it was like you know a waste of sort of time and energy in that sense like i don't know maybe i think twitch is actually okay because twitch is like this is like this cool sub culture word nerds no one likes us we finally have a space that we could do this stuff facebook i think is different and i respected the game theory of it i was like when this whole like contract thing was going down and then they were like you know how basically the question of how much should we bid i was like i don't know you know like it's like in sports there's like this money ball movement where you're trying to figure out the value of a player and if you can accurately forecast the value of a player you have an edge in winning in the in the in the league same the same thing is true now for all these like big media platforms that are like in twitch case you they were bidding for content so they're bidding for for this and you know i went and met with people or like you know talk people who are at netflix and it's like hey how do you decide how much to spend on the production of this or you know how do you figure out if it was worth it to spend you know one of a hundred million dollars on house of cards and like and you go there and you'll meet you know you meet the guy who's doing the same thing right like the brilliant data scientist who's like job is to like ab b test the thumbnails worth of you know like the the new garfield movie to figure out which one is gonna lead to higher engagement like lower churn and it's like yeah you know you're you're ab testing thumbnails for for you for for netflix and youtube and all the stuff like yeah that's like it kind of feels like you know bringing a gun to an fight type of thing like you're you're you're damn like really this is where all it's a scale it's not binary it's a scale you know and so for some companies it's like oh no this is just way too lame for others it's like oh this got a little pinch lane little half a cup lame but like it's mostly pretty cool right you know what i'm saying netflix i actually think that's it's like i'm the world a little bit of entertainment facebook it's like i'm just making people hate themselves yeah the thing that i the way i ended up thinking about it was like do i matter here like if i left like who cares i i called this the jen law like if you removed this block from the django tower tower still there okay guess that wasn't a key block like you know sure we'd love to have it there smart benefits if there but like nah nobody really cares please i like well if i don't really matter here that like it's very hard for me to get excited that's kind of an ego thing but it's also like an impact thing like if i at a startup up like i can i can just by myself create a product give value to customers that didn't exist and i can capture a huge amount of the value and not a big company i'm neither the key person creating the value nor the key person nor the person who's captures any of the value right like your value capture inside of a company is is is fixed like you you get paid what you get paid in most cases you know aside from like maybe a bonus that you could get whether your product sixty succeeds or fails which is why a bunch of products fail or go really slow inside these companies because it doesn't matter you don't get you don't get a prize if it works you know you get you get praise and so and and then the other side which is like you know does this matter and i think there is a counter argument like i talked to scott josh elm and and actually even the the chief product officer at twitch sky dan i was like dan why why do you always join you know worked at google worked at next door worked at now to twitch i was like why are you doing this big company like if you ever wanted to go do your own he's like yeah but i wanted like impact scale and i was like i was like we're like in my head it was always if i'm at a small company i have a bigger impact and big relative to the company he's like yeah but that's not how you think about it like here if i can improve one product that ten million people use or google you know a billion people use search you know every single day and so if i can make that better like i created the book search you know feature i was you know on the books team we created that project so now you could like search for books and like a bunch of people on earth do that that'll start would it'd be very hard for me to do that and i was like okay like that is the counter is like if you're if you're working at apple and you're working on the app store like you know the app store if a billion people use it every single day i guess like making a better reach reaches a billion people you know making their life one percent better or whatever you know that that day is higher impact than than at a startup but it doesn't feel that way the action doesn't feel the same to me no i agree you wanna do another topic can i give you a framework that i think is pretty dope that i that i heard mh so i was talking to somebody about like you know guess i can really say what i talking about but i talking about something was sort like you know they'll say the topic of money like should i do this you should i do this it's gonna yield this amount of money or not and the first one's was like well the way i think about money is you know because the value of money is what can you say no to if you have this money and i was like what do you mean about i was interesting i started he hey he actually he didn't even respond i was like my head i was like that's interesting i've never heard that before and so like i started thinking about it and i go that's true like people always say you i want financial freedom i want freedom you know i don't care about money i care about freedom that's like a common thing you'll hear and it's like what does that actually mean i was like oh it's actually not the freedom to do something it's the freedom from having to do something so it's like what can i say no to so let me give you kind of like so i started thinking about my own life i was like when i had twenty five thousand dollars in my bank account i could say no to a really shitty job like i didn't have to go flip burgers or be a jan because i could i could pay my like monthly bill and i could do that for like you know six to twelve months and like cool that means i didn't have to go get a bad job a shitty job today and then at like a hundred k in the bank you can say no to like a shitty manager it's like okay i don't i can't just retire but i can like quit this job take a gap and like find another job but i don't feel like this like financial stress in doing that so hunter k lets me say no to a shitty manager i was like half a million that's when i could say no to like don't have to work for a couple years i could just say no to work for a little bit temporarily say like i a six or twelve years ago yeah yeah i can go for a year i could try startup up or go trap back backing or whatever like i pursue a passion of some kind so that's a new thing you could say no to it's like work for a little while then it kinda like i would say three million you can just say no to jobs like i'm only gonna work for myself i can bet on myself and and give myself enough time to figure stuff out without having to stress about it at ten million i think you just say no to working in general it's like like my money makes enough money i just don't need to use my time to make money if i don't want to and then it kinda goes on and i you say no well at like i i've been thinking about this as well and like between some number maybe around a hundred you say no to having to be in one location so for example right now i rent a place in one location and i own a place in another location i had a hundred million dollars i'd probably own three or four homes and just like hey let's just go from place to place to place i don't have to spend any time organizing a rental or or anything and then maybe around like two or three hundred it's adam gonna say no to wasting time at an airport i'm just we only yes you know we only fly i think it's that but the numbers are a little bit less i said at fifty million i think you could say no to any inconvenience that money can solve you could i think you but you could fly private it at fifty million you don't have to own the jet but you could fly private sure for sure you could hire assistance to do anything you need you could hire you know chefs and drivers and and and you know errands and and accountants and anything you don't wanna you don't have to do i talked once you get what talked fifty million range i talked to a guy there other day who owns a jet and it he said it it's it's about two a half million a year and expenses right he owns it if you wanna rent it i think you could go most you can go to a lot of places and spend half a million dollars a year and if you have fifty million that's that that's doable but you can't own like an eight million dollar house in brooklyn and then a three million dollar house in austin and then five million dollar house in la but you could own pretty nice shit in those places right and so and you know like the top ladders you you get to hundred million and i think you could say no to the way the world world works you could just change some rules and at a billion i think you say no to like politicians you say no to the police you say you say no to a bunch of people would you get to a billion because you have the ability to kind of fight back you they they kind of there's there's a different level of respect perspective and so to me i liked this framework of what does this amount of money allow me to say no to that i want to say no to did you yeah what would what hourly rate would you say no to right now for for a project that you don't wanna do for a one hour phone call what would you have to accept so like i think they i there's like what you say and then there's like what you actually like what the market clearing price actually is so you would you would right now i charge two thousand dollars an hour and i take about two hours a week of phone calls would you do that or not so that's the exact borderline so on gl g that's like what you the max you can set my rate to is two thousand and if i get a if i get a bid and i'm like this phone call doesn't sound like it's gonna be a lot of fun it's like right at that borderline where i feel like i kinda should like for an hour i i should i take i i i don't take the calls because i need the money i take the calls because i feel guilty saying no and so it's the same thing right like feeling like i should means feeling like i wanna say no but i don't think i should and therefore if i say no i kinda feel like i've made you i'm guilty right like what i've done has this i've used the app intro and i just like for example i'm flying down to your event and then i'm flying to la i i schedule it so i know when i'm gonna be buying the money i know when i'm gonna be in the uber and i just make my availability there so i'm like sick i'll just take this in the uber and now i can afford like i can justify a two hundred dollar uber black because i'm making two thousand dollars in this hour and so i'm gonna be comfortable and i'll order it even early so if i arrive early at the airport i can gonna sit outside of the airport and finish this call so that's kinda how i've been justifying it now but right it feels weird selling time per hour and i don't even know if i like that in general yeah exactly so i would say my true answer is if i don't wanna do it right now i think that the number is something like two or three thousand dollars for an hour if i if i just if i if i don't wanna do it actually just don't do it but if it's like borderline if i'm not sure if it or i don't think i would like it but it's not so painful i think that's my current thing but i'm i'm actively trying to get away from it like was something i came up yesterday that was like this and i was like i wanna i was by default i was just gonna say yes and i was like should i say yes this let me just like re recheck what i wanna be saying yes to because i think that you know one of the most important decisions in your life is what are the things i'm gonna say yes to what of the things i'm gonna say no to so there's your default box which is like oh i i obviously say yes and no to these things then what are the non obvious things so it's like i wanna be saying yes to things that i know will be fun and help me grow but scare me a little or put me out of my comfort zone right so it's like i know i wanna say yes i know i wanna say yes to if my friend is in town i wanna go pick them up from the airport or if my mom needs to get to the airport i wanna drive her there like i say yes to tasks that like i don't wanna do but i actually wanna be the person who does those things so i'm just like i'm deciding consciously what are the things that are like what what should i be moving into the yes box and what should i be moving into the no what some shit i do today that i should be saying no do you have a polite way of saying no all the inbound or do you just ignore i used to just ignore and then i realized like it's totally fine to just say hey this sounds cool but i just got a handful i don't wanna do anything else or like hey this you know hey you know thanks for reaching out i don't wanna do any more phone calls that i'm doing right now but if that changes i'll let you know yeah and like i'll just say something and i think you know people hey they just appreciate a response more than a blow off and be i think there's some level of respect for thoughtful even life yeah for you know somebody just being honest and like just saying look i i don't i don't wanna do that you know i i've decided i wanna travel less you know so i'm gonna so i'm saying no try i have this guy messaging me saying he wants to come on the pod and i was just like i ignored it i ignored it because i hate when people ask to come on because i'm like dude why are you gonna make me say no like we i say no to everyone practically even good friends so we just say no took most everyone and this guy he was like i was hey or he was like can i come on i'm a huge fan and i just had like thanks for reaching out like i didn't even i tried to avoid it like it was quite obvious and he's like hey so can i come on and i go you know this isn't a good fit but i really appreciate you listening and he was like can i get some feedback i was like it's just not a good fit and he goes okay but why and i was like oh okay because you're not interesting and you're not that successful and he was angry at me and i was like dude what what the hell i mean i was trying to like you know make a point of like avoiding this topic and being kind but you if you're gonna ask her feedback you and i'm gonna tell you you know what what what it's about don't get angry right he's like i what's not interesting about it he said i go it just there's you know i just don't care about you so my my my gold locks thing here was i was too cold when i just blew people off because they didn't like that and then they would just stop like you know i i found i would miss opportunities because i wouldn't reply to things opportunities i cared about in in the long run and then the too hot was would just be like i don't do phone calls i was like okay you know you're in you're sort of a jerk for just being like i don't do phone calls or like i don't meet with people i don't know or like you know i i don't do this it's like too hard of a rule and i found that the sweet spot was somewhere in the middle of just saying you know hey thanks but but you know i'm trying to do less of this right now or or sometimes i'll say like they'll be like hey did you wanna do this i'd be like you know i haven't decided and you know like i don't know i don't i don't even know what i want yet so let me get clear on what i want and then i'll come back if i if i you know when i get clear if i ever get clear on it like it's not about you i just don't know exactly what wanna do right now and like i'll just say like something honest like that and i found that that that tends to work a little bit better dude we went from hitler das saudi arabia to saying no to people mental model yeah mental models good pod you i'm gonna be in la on sunday you're not coming right la on sunday know i don't think but then i'm gonna see you and what are you going to what are gonna to i told you about it i'm hosting an event there dude for the new york event that i'm hosting we've got like thirteen hundred rs vps i'm eager to see how many show you gotta cut that down right you can't you can't do gonna to do a thousand person event no that's how many people said they're coming but it's free so like maybe half will come but we put up ten grand gonna do a six hundred fifty person event dude it's all guys by the way number it's all guys i like scroll it's all dudes i could smell that event already oh yeah yeah it's fucked up man so many chad are gonna be there and then i'm doing the same thing in la and that one has like five or six hundred rs vps i just you and i were talking about an event and i was like kinda like actually this is like a toilet decision and i just wrote it on event right on my phone and just posted it right away and people signed up and said we're committed so we're doing that and then i'm gonna be and then we're gonna go to the carolina for the thing you're organizing which everyone's been reaching out to me do we talk about it last part yeah we bench at they had the last spot dude so how many people are reaching out to reach out about they wanna come they basically people wanting to comment and i'm like this isn't no no sorry it's not my thing but so so i came up with a i was like what do we call this and i was like i wanna call it camp m m so it's camp m mfa and i was like we could do these but we could do a bunch of these we could just do like adult summer caps space great idea what's what is something that's really fun because i don't wanna go to something that's like like even this like thousand person made up like i'm sure it's cool in the school serves a different purpose it's a party versus an experience yeah so i wanna have experiences you know when you were like yeah i'm a fucking artist man yeah that that's how i have like i don't have experiences this is gonna be a good one now we gotta come up with another one let's go to like hope and so some of these will be like this one which is like ultra like more like super exclusive right there's only there was only supposed to be twelve people going it's expanded to twenty four and you know that's a lot and i wanted it to be more like twelve but i have like there'll be those and i think we should do some that are for like dude if you can like if you know the phrase you know we don't public math manifest cowboys you know sam wants to own a lake like if you know the inside jokes of this pod then you that's your admit into the to this this camp and i was like i think we should do these like twice a year that are just like fun and awesome and get people together quarterly i camp m mfa should be the thing i never wanted to do the work for this and neither of you and so that's like you know one of the challenges but but it wasn't a lot of work for this one was it kinda feel like it is this a lot because as soon as i try to do something i'm like well let's make it fucking awesome then like you know and so like all of a sudden like for this basketball thing we got like nike giving us all like like sneakers like from like one of their players and then we're getting like custom swag we rented these like do bear b b's we got like a chef we got like all this stuff come together i was like well we're gonna have good people let's get like some like good names in here let's get like some people were excited to meet and then it's all coming together and like but like each one of those down like now i want it to be like awesome before kinda we got like we you we get experience we can get a sponsor to say like are you get you get three hundred thousand dollars a year to do cool shit but we get to be there at all the events yeah okay if somebody wants to do sponsored cam camp m you could do this all the way he will go to basically hiring a planner to actually like do these things for us and and secondly to to you know the the venue and logistics of it alright that's a pod i'm out