#87 with Greg Isenberg - The Millions to be Made Unbundling Reddit

alright alright play the intro music we are back we have greg on we're gonna make this a two part episode because we went a little long so watch out for this back to back with greg greg's been on the podcast before he's a friend of the house he's got great ideas today he want he texted me and he said hey i gotta come back on i got a bunch of ideas about building startups off the back of reddit and so that's what we talk about amongst other things so this is part one enjoy cool what up we're here sam and greg i back back as a guest on the podcast welcome back greg thanks what's that and sam said he had a juicy question to ask you so well we just talking about stumble upon greg i don't know you if you can't talk about something just say you can't talk about it who owns stumble upon greg used to work for or owned or what did you do with stuff got bought by stumble upon yeah exactly we we started a company which was kinda like stumble upon for video and they bought us we were their first acquisition and the only acquisition and then what ended up happening is stumble upon got bought by garrett camp and xbox which is his product studio and so we're what to do now yeah so he he's relaunch stumble upon as a product called mix dot com which is supposed to be like stumble upon but more modern okay cool well we should start because there's a bunch of ideas to go but before we do greg we're trying to rename the podcast and it used to be cold or it is cold still my first million which was because i was i started off just interviewing people like hey how'd you make a million bucks how'd did you make your first million and then they would tell their story like i made it by being a poker player i made it by selling my company to stumble upon whatever and now it's changed into this kind of brainstorm idea session kinda weird thing and so we wanna rename it and so we just put out a a little poll i don't know if you like any of these names are so one is is kinda what we refer to it now as million dollar brainstorm kinda close to what we have not that exciting as a re brand another one we had was idea h but nobody voted for that so that's losing right now there's the brain so a couple people have voted for that in our our podcast group do you have a genius name for us and also do you remember your hilarious naming naming advice that you used to have regarding a certain spanish word it's scary that i don't remember that okay so i remember somebody was trying to come up with their domain name and you were like oh i got you what's your business and he's like you know insurance you're like insurance bueno just you were just putting bueno at the end of every name you're like oh hotel bueno haircut bueno like the domains are all available and it sounds great i do have a list of probably three hundred and fifty names and and i do come up with like like a bunch of words and i'll just add it like space this or you know street that or avenue this right i just kinda play around with bit idea street yeah i yeah exactly i mean i can i know let's just do bueno let's just add bueno to stuff i love that idea so first of all i don't really love any of the names to be honest thank you for the honesty one of them kind of remind what's the what's the first one again go through it and i'll tell you why i don't like them alright million dollar brainstorm it's too much of like i mean we're trying to ten x the name here you know right so it's too much of that's one percent yeah yeah the next one was the brain you stand out like you sound like startup up myth myth busters and into it then there's idea h i mean i think we're more than just idea h and you know i'd like to give us a little more credit okay so those are the three those are the three we have right now well come on greg break some of the table then i mean i got i got a lot here i just got a lot of of names i can go to mean you have like the suffix and prefixes basically that you yeah exactly remix names with okay after party broken suit prince preston you can like prints this king this anything ltd days of anything fresh laundry anything weekend make believe visiting day saint anything cottage industries dear anything what is what's college industry cottage industry i think is you know let's say you you know built an one formula track you know formula one track in your in your city like what are all the other industries that are gonna support alright i just bought also so i thought it just met niche like kind of like a sub niche or whatever but when i googled it it said a business or manufacturing activity carried on a a person's home which i think is like a specific version of that but greg's right it it is about the things that pop up around like airbnb wins that becomes a cottage industry of like cleaning your airbnb helping you decide your price on your airbnb that's the cottage industry that oh i like that yeah that'd a good one cool well we we could skip the name for now but i might need that list to yeah saying rip off of okay greg you you said you had some ideas you said i you came knocking back on the door of the brainstorm i don't know some name you came knocking on our door and you said i got some my ideas that then i gotta get off my chest yeah yeah i can't sleep at night i gotta get back on the pod what are the ideas well you know i don't know if you saw it i started a subs and i i wrote about the un unwavering of reddit yeah i i just did a big like course like lecture series and i talked all about that topic so you wanna explain what that is yeah totally so you know there's this concept called un unsettling there's this concept called bundling it's a famous thing i think in the nineties that jim bark mark jason's partner you know founder of c cofounder of nets gate basically said there's only two ways to make money you can either bundle or un bundle and this you know there's i think a post by andrew parker from he was at spark capital twenty twelve maybe he wrote this post about the un of craigslist yeah and you know how like if you look at craigslist and you can un bundle like reservations for houses and sub that's airbnb you know there's you know ticket sales that stuff up and the aggregate of the market caps of all these un is actually way greater than the market cap for craigslist itself and you could un bundle craigslist ebay zillow now newspapers anything that's large cable companies yep yeah exactly my belief is that like there's unicorn status and then there's un status anything big enough is gonna get un so reddit obviously has a bunch of vertical communities that are all aggregated together in one platform so what you're saying is that you think some of these communities could be off on their own for example there's like a a writing prompt one and that could be like a what or something like that that is that what you're thinking about yeah so obviously reddit reddit and facebook groups have gotten extremely big as as of recently facebook groups had a billion monthly active users and reddit is completely surging in traffic right now my belief is that since you know twenty sixteen ish discord was the first example of the un bubbling of reddit then discord was built on top of reddit it started in the league of legends subreddit it was a product for that community then they went to cs then they went to dota they just basically looked at what they needed they spread themselves on top of that network they've recruited mods from that network and and kinda went horizontally have you guys seen reddit list dot com i think it's yeah yeah kind of that it tells you which are the fastest growing subreddit exactly so i'm gonna pull it up right now while you're pulling that up here's a few examples of businesses that been launched on top of reddit through un bundling them so there was grail do you know braille i bet you you look fashionable yeah so grail is a men's street wear marketplace that was launched on top of what was it mail fashion marketplace maybe image imagery was launched on reddit yeah i think it's just been like this low key thing that no one's really been talking about and now you know in this covid land you know i think there's so much opportunity to bring people together and people are looking for support communities either to earn learn or get paid or get laid whatever you wanna however you wanna put it and i don't know why more people aren't just like going on top of reddit list and so that's what i've been doing basically is basically going in with my team and and scraping reddit list and speaking to literally people on the subreddit so like just pulling it up like in the last twenty four hours what are the biggest growth subreddit so you have like you know ninja the game no idea what that is but there's probably an opportunity there only friends promos huge growth bender boys you know watch reddit die k pop thoughts avatar means facts right special what what does that stand for special acquisition company position that's it right so you get this amazing sense as to like what's trending and my thesis on all of this is reddit facebook groups they're at the size where people are looking for these like bespoke experiences for these subreddit reddit are you describing building specialty communities or building products and services for this group right so for example grilled is the products and services hey this is men's fashion we can set we can create men's fashion brand speak to this audience launch on there they made it easier to do the behavior that wrote it so they were trying to do it in the comments and these guys said hey let's build a website that makes that exactly and so greg are you describing that or the second thing that sean was about to say which was yeah just like you know creating a you know this community really likes k pop art cool i'll create a k pop art brand as it's more e commerce selling to that and advertising on that channel but it's less about taking that behavior you see and product sizing it which i think is really the bigger opportunity that's what i so that's what i'm saying so i'm saying like the discord model is this you look you you go to you go to reddit you see what's trending you go and you have this community of thousands of people who are talking about a subject they need stuff they wanna buy stuff there's a lot of energy that you can capitalize on and there is an opportunity to build software and that's software could either be you know e commerce site it could be a media site it could be whatever it's not necessarily like you're trying compete with reddit you're not trying to compete with facebook groups you might have like a community like layer on top of it but that's not the point that's not the point of of down bundling of reddit like for and and that's the discord model right they looked at it they looked at like league of legends people were using team speak and a few other products to communicate it was legacy they knew that from speaking to people they knew that from looking on reddit and they just you know like if you think about what is the freight like we can talk about it but like what is the framework for creating a product service for community like it's a brand number one you have to have a brand that people resonate with this discord like look at i mean i don't know what you guys but it definitely like speech i mean sean obviously you have yeah has some of the best marketing in the game i more like just like nerds like geek it's for gamers and and gamers tend to like have kind of this like really specific cross section of interest which will span into some movie stuff some specific type of humor or whatever but if you go like i we were in the same space as them so we would watch how they drift out when they do an update they don't just put the patch notes out there they would make these videos and the videos themselves were so entertaining that it it didn't matter if you used the feature or not you you know your love for discord went up because they knew how to speak to you because it felt like they came from the community and they felt in touch in a way that most other brands felt totally out of touch like skype skype would never speak to gamers in the way that discord did and so discord just over time just sucked in every gamer who was trying to decide between a skype or a team speak or discord can i get some small examples of what you're talking about greg and you tell me what you think so yeah i am a massive reddit or i've have i've got like fifty thousand karma points it's like it's my it's my life i love reddit i've even attended reddit meetup so i'm a big reddit so the subreddit that i noticed that are growing significantly since i've joined is a few things and they're all related and meet sean and we're actually just talking about this but mobility related things so body weight fitness is huge i think it has over a million subscribers and then scoliosis is another one and that's about posture and then good posture is another one and these are all related around this weird group of people who i'm part of that i don't don't really care about big muscles but like getting strong and fit for the sake of just being like having longevity like what the human body should be yeah what the human body should be so like wearing shoes like i'm wearing now to have like no heels on them so you like have good achilles flexibility just like things like that and there's a company i i don't know how you pronounce it but i but it's spelled ram w r o m w o d like a out of the day for certain crossfit i don't know what the ram means it's an app i bought it it's a hundred dollars and i did research these guys do close to a million dollars a month in revenue with only eight employees and it's a hundred dollar app and all it does is it teaches you say like where you're tight like your hips or your shoulder and it just has videos and you just do a twenty minute workout with it very easy app to build big fan of that one the second one is it's and clearly i'm on a fitness kick is when i built my home garage there's a whole subreddit called i forget what it's called is it called garage gym or jim garage and there's this guy named cooper that goes alright guys i i'll create a website and he created the wire cutter for garage gyms and it's crazy how fan these people are about this he probably makes a few million dollars a year just off affiliate fees and there's one for philips hughes light bulbs where i see people creating services where they come to your house and they make your philips hue light bulbs like they have like they set light skate for it so it's like you want your living room to be hawaii will come set it up so so it feels that way so the first thing is reddit is an amazing source of content so every news person like sam you guys do this at the hustle all the viral news sites we're doing this they hunt for viral content on reddit because it's amazing at surfacing content there's one layer below that which is like kinda like the four chan message boards irc that's really where this stuff originates but then it gets surfaced to integer then it gets serviced to reddit and then it gets taken mainstream so it's always been a farm for content we and everyone kinda knows that you can export reddit ideas and you could just take it off reddit and it can go viral on buzzfeed feed in other places what you guys are saying is that's cool as a very you know that's cool if you're farming for likes but let's say you're farming for dollars you can look at some of these subreddit and there's not gonna be like to be clear there's not gonna be a thousand businesses like this probably that are gonna start but there's probably a hundred that are in the vein of what sam is talking about which are these kind of like niche kinda e commerce well i definitely think there'll be a thousand small ones right but then there'll be a couple a handful maybe three or less that are the discord sized you know huge opportunities that you can see and so i think it's good to set the expectation that like that's the case now i'll give you an example of one that's interesting right i'm on reddit list i see gift recipes this might be a stupid one but whatever here's one that popped out so gift recipes is a celebrated with two point two million members it's kinda in the top hundred list and all it is is like kind of a cooking recipe that's delivered in the format of a gift so it's really quick to watch and it's a super efficient way of getting the information onto the screen and so i could see for example a mobile app that's all about you know a foodie community or cooking cooking at home community and this is the core format that they use instead of long text posts or long videos that you have to watch to try to get the content to that point you know one of the ways i look at some of these subreddit is like what is gift recipes actually actually telling us well it's kinda telling us that there's this you know the way people are searching for recipes right now might not be great you know like going on google and being like i wanna make a meatloaf and like getting this seo based i on those sites hate so they they are such a pain in the ass and i bet you that like rap genius was founded on this idea that lyric song lyric sites make set of yeah like a a significant chunk of the web i bet you the same which could be set for recipes yeah the rap genius guys used to say i think one or two percent of all google searches are for lyrics and that was like kind of the core insight why hey this is bigger than you think this opportunity and yeah i would guess at rescues the same way and i also just have a theory that in general stories have been shown to be like the superior communication format like there's a reason that instagram stories snapchat stories these have taken off and it's because it's a really quick way to get entertainment or information it's a great way to communicate from one human to another and i just think more more things that are in long form text or long form video you could just convert to story based formats and do really well so like wikipedia today is all about in encyclopedia with long form text i wonder if you could create a a modern day wikipedia using stories as your way of explaining what something is or you know just as as silly example but recipes would be another one and i think with the recipes would just say two point two million subscribers in that yeah i mean you look at that it's like okay well one percent of two point two million is twenty two thousand can you get twenty two thousand people to pay you five bucks a month for better recipes right and it's like the answer is probably and that's why i actually disagree i think like there's i disagree degree in terms of the amount of businesses that you can create i actually think that there's probably a thousand businesses that you could create on top of subreddit and using subreddit as your like idea source by the way idea source good idea for a podcast name you're correct that is a great idea idea source subreddit and a thousand businesses you can create that could do at least a million dollars a year and yeah something maybe a few of them could be your dis discord but like i don't know why more people aren't just like doing that and just being like and that's what that's what i'm doing but i don't know why more people are yeah i agree with you i i actually it doesn't matter but i think it be way more than a thousand i mean there there's so many things that you don't even know about like because it's not in your you don't care but like for example my wife subscribe to like black hair hair and r slash curly hair and like these are things that like you would ever even worry about right now and i i brought up curly girl hair as an idea ten to twenty episodes ago i think yeah you did sean you're right you i remember we talked about this but there there's like things like that where you don't even realize like i didn't even know i didn't even know this was a prop like i you guys don't have like newark like shampoo that you know wanna be there's all these things so i and and and examples of those businesses are billion dollar companies like that thing drunk elephant or some bullshit like that what was that thing called you know don't talking about drunk elephant yeah drunk i don't know if it's elephant drunk hip or there was some like women's shampoo company that sold so so i think so so greg what you're saying is first reddit as an idea source so mining for okay what are what are topics that people care about what are communities that are super active and super like kind of trading information trying to communicate trying to organize themselves to do stuff so that's one is like you find markets basically and then what's your process right now for like finding products on top of those markets okay so you start with you start with the market basically the subreddit edit right the other really you know you start with the idea source number one then you go to your name source which is like you know i'm just scrolling through it's like casual conversation saved you a click there's literally named gold in my subreddit edits right like and you know me like you know one of my projects is you prob you probably need a haircut dot com like why did that the name itself we're pitching for reality tv show right now because it's so good mh and you know like part of a lot about names oh yeah i think names is one of the most underrated aspects of building internet product that's so funny i so disagree with you and that's you should james k has a great post on on this i don't know if you've ever read it greg but he's he's the only other person besides you i've heard be like hey everybody silicon valley thinks this is overrated and whatever change it later figured out later and he's like no and a name can be a game changer in the world well i say a name could make you but it likely won't break you i think in startups you're just looking for as much chance of success as possible and i think that the name especially when it comes down to like getting free customers which i love doing is so important right so for so for example like you probably need a haircut dot com is on one hand kind of a dumb name but on the other hand like people remember it and people talk about it then you spend days and you read everything and you go to the next page in the next page and down the threads and you look at people's usernames and you understand what's trending like you become one with the subreddit edit i always tell people is you click top so you rank by order and then you should rank it by month year and all time and then you go through the first five pages and you click comments and you read the top thirty or so comments for everything that's brilliant it right and then you understand you're like alright i understand the demand here yeah where i understand the i understand the culture of this community yeah these are my people i this you have to be like okay i get these people and then you have to map out the ecosystem so you have to look at in the week of a life of a you know animal crossing person user whatever what i don't just you don't know what i to make a popular game as a game yeah oh one point one point three one point two eight two million subscribers super popular social game on nintendo switch really interesting social experiences around it i think it's blowing people's minds and what's coming out of it and it's one of those things like i love social products like that because like you know people are looking for ways like right above animal crossing on this red list is tiktok tips which is like another business right there it's like oh how do i create you know a product that allows me to do take tiktok better you could pretty much do that for every subreddit that's what i'm like a thousand it's more like one for every subreddit that has north of twenty thousand users yeah it's it's it's there's a and that's why i mean i that's why i hit you up sean because i was like are you not sleeping because i'm not so where were we so so we you know you're at one with the community you map at the ecosystem and and and you should do it like visually like work with the designer because i think like actually like seeing it visually is gonna help you and then you spend some time doing like speaking to people about like hey what do you think you know in the case of let's say discord when when discord coming out say hey what do you think of the team speak do you like team speak you know how how often to use it you know oh oh you know what would you an ass open ended questions oh what would you changed and you just write stuff down you spend two to three weeks just writing stuff down and at the end of it if you can come up with an idea based on community you have a good name you understand the ecosystem you probably have a pretty good shot at creating something and then the one thing i would add is how do you create it with no code which is pretty easy right now and have you gotten to that step yet greg with your kind of reddit process you're running yeah so what i'm trying to when i'm building actually so i started a a product studio called lake checkout and we're kind of like almost like an expo like a product studio yeah with a checkout dot com and what we're doing is it's kinda like an x buff but we're kind of looking we're we're un reddit and sort of a systematic way and we're trying to like launch a thing a month who's funding that greg we're self funded how many people a dozen people full time full time that's crazy and so what so the self funded mean that you're bank rolling it or people are working without a salary that me everyone has everyone is being paid i'm self funding it but we do have a agency's part of the business where we work with a just a a few clients that are helping helping fund some of that is that paying the bills it's paying some of the bills but not paying all the bills how much are you work on until you get a hit how much you willing to burn i'm willing burn it all burn it all dude honestly i would burn it all i took out all my money from the stock market i think the stock market's over valued and and it's gone up since then right but i you know i i'd burn it all i put it all into this thesis of of dan online over bread when do you this is interesting okay so you're living a lot of people's dreams i think where you're just like crate shit and you're putting your money where your mouth is a twelve people would be like a hundred a hundred grand hundred and fifty grand a month right you know one thing we do have is we we do some sort of profit sharing stuff you know that's another interesting thing is i think that a lot of people a lot of companies are all about stock and as you guys know like common stock could get whole you know who knows when liquidity is and i think what you have is a huge a a generation of people who are kinda like i'd worked for a couple startups ups it's kinda not not really gone anywhere even if it's been a big exit like we sold for a quarter of a billion dollars a quarter of a billion dollars was put in by investors so i saw nothing so i think there's actually a huge interesting opportunity to offer i know it sounds old school but like good old fashioned profit sharing that's what my company is gonna do it probably i don't think there's great software to do profit sharing to sell easy like here's here's card for profit share i don't think that there's a great solution for that to granted haven't looked but i know several people that kinda like home cook these things and it's a kind of a pain in the ass it's a huge pain in the ass it's a huge pain in the ass so there you go product product one would you ever consider sean would you ever consider profit sharing in a future company yeah right now it's happening right now so yeah now that it's a little bit messy in the sense of okay when do we declare profits so you know to what extent do we reinvest into new things versus actually take profits out of the business i think that's the only murky thing that like you know so right now i have a i have one person who's an operator of a business and excited about profit sharing as the model here but the question is cool so when when do not when do profits arrive but when do we decide to take them out of the business versus not i think that's the only big small though it's like ten percent a lot of people do ten percent of profits sure so you can set up some rules like that it's gonna be ten percent of profits once we hit this point or at this point in time but that's the only gray area that i haven't sort of figured out yet with my model but yes actively doing it right now to and and want to figure out a software solution for it yeah we're we've built it on top of notion and i don't think it's perfect but i think like you know one of the ways we look at it is like imagine you have like an l one l two l three type person and based on like ranking right you know based on contributions but i'd love to see i'd love to see like i would pay software that would do this my friend nathan barry you guys probably have convertkit kit is the name of his company and he's one of these like radical transparency type of guys and he's so his all this company's revenues on bare metrics and they do i think twenty two million a year in recurring revenue is a really great company and he revealed his profit sharing methodology to google nathan barry profit sharing you'll be able to see any like reveals his spreadsheet in like how he allocate money to different employees and i think that what he had ended up doing was just saying like we're just gonna we're just gonna do it strictly on tenure so people who have stayed here for one year get this people who have stayed here for two years get this and it doesn't matter how much money you make like how much salary or what position you have okay so i have a re i a reddit based idea that it's not a new idea it's an idea i saw that i'm connecting the dots here so when we were building lab this really interesting thing would happen like once a week or once a month i don't remember the cadence exactly but all of a sudden the top watch stream it would have like i don't know like a thousand plus people watching it in that moment and it was all new users all new accounts and they were kind of like i was like what the hell is going on who are these people and the screen was just a screen share it wasn't a person on on screen talking so they're kinda hacking our system to use it for for what they wanted and it was i don't remember the name it but there's some kind of like reddit millionaire game or reddit lottery game that happens on some some frequency some either once a week once a month and basically someone in the subreddit wins and that's kind of it it's like you don't have to pay i don't think to enter you just you might win and the i think it they either crowds source the funding or something like that and i saw this product come out recently that's very similar and it's called ia savings did you guys see this oh yeah i they're running commercials oh so so i don't know the backstory of this but there's was a clever idea basically they created a savings account so they wanted to they wanted they created like you know a savings account they wanted a bunch of people to deposit with them and so what they did was they were like hey you could win up to ten million dollars just for saving your money in our fdic insured account so you don't have to buy into the lottery but it's sort of a trade it's like put your money in our our savings account so they can become essentially like a little mini bank and then if you have a savings account for every dollar you have in i think you get entries into a weekly lottery which will let you win ax x y you know x y z amounts of money and you get more tickets the more you you get more tickets to win the more you've deposited and i those are very clever mechanic to try to like solve the chicken and egg problem of of starting a you know a financial services company and it reminded me of the sort of the the the idea on reddit of of like well what if you just had a chance to win you don't have to buy a lottery ticket and then is there a is there a way you could make the economics work and i think these guys have a a a method that might work what do you guys think of this idea so we gave away a tesla in june and that incentive absolutely worked we said if you get your friends to join the hustle using your unique link you're entered into win this thing and we've collected hundreds of thousands of new users that way in thirty days that's awesome and when you decided to do that it's obviously a big risk because you have to to clear that big a risk it's twenty five thousand dollars okay you gave away model three so did you set a benchmark early on you were okay this is what success is as fifty thousand users or what'd you say yeah i don't wanna review that number but we looked at like what the lifetime values of a user and then we gave it a huge discount you work back from that okay yeah and now there's a ton of legal implications here right doing is fucking hard yeah and and it's full of scammers so if you're gonna do it you have to a follow the law so like for example in california you can't use the word it's like there's work like verbiage you have to use like a giveaway versus a lottery versus versus raffle versus raffle yeah it's all it's very you have to use a certain terminology but did you restrict who could enter to like certain geographies yeah we sail i i forget but yes i think like i don't think puerto rico can enter i don't think international can the two smart things i saw you guys doing that i was like this is fucking great this will work and then the other one was sponsoring dave port stream i was like this is also great this will work and then taking the dave port stream and turning that video clip into an ad i was like yes this is why sam my boy yeah great shit like this it worked that was very expensive that was six figures that was expensive but anyway the giveaway work and also you know publishers clearing house i've heard the word i don't know i actually know what the hell that means greg you don't greg are you canadian or american canadian okay publishing clearing house was a business that was it might be it have been around forever but it was particularly popular in the eighties and nineties and do you remember like how they would show up at people's homes with a big fat check right yes i forget the history of it but basically it started literally like magazine publishers would do like a giveaway away and then now it's its own thing and it's a multi billion dollar company and it's just a big lot a lot like a raffle and they still do it and it still makes billions of dollars in revenue it's its own company i think it makes it's quite large but anyway sean my point is these giveaways definitely work yeah that's amazing how how do you do that digitally that's kind of my question well have you seen the million dollar san francisco house raffle no what's that there's billboards on bus stops for it it's called the san francisco brave see if you can find it like san francisco raffle house or something like that where it's twenty five dollars a ticket and you get enter to win a million dollar home a million dollar home who who's who's running this i don't know but i always see billboards for it you've ever seen these they're all over dude i haven't left my house in like you know four months so no they it's called the s f raffle see house yeah google skills okay go ahead the idea is this okay actually before we get to the idea here's what i here's what i'm learning number one is that people's lives are probably pretty boring and they wanna make things interesting yes number two number two is that people love slot machines essentially which is you you do something person does something and something with chance might happen so it's like how do you and i know this is a big gambling me but like how do you apply slot machines to everything right know in the sense of like okay i'm buying a you know i just bought this white t shirt at james purse but for an extra x amount of dollars i could put into something to get a you know facetime from james first or something so i so i think i think you could do this as a shopify add on to a post purchase so i think you could say you cool i got to the point you bought a thing your credit cards in and hey here's a chance to get x and you could possibly apply something sort of at that point when they're they're already so far down the funnel that you you're just trying to basically increase the average order value by introducing a little game of chance where some people get a get like a ton of value and then a lot of people lose a little bit of value as as one mechanic for it i did this with i think i talked about this podcast there used to be this penny the sports betting site that was genius where they basically said okay to get around the illegal of this you come on the site everybody gets ten cents for free to bet and you can so everyone gets ten cents for you you can only cash out when you get to ten bucks and of course it's really hard to climb to ten bucks so you start betting and then when you would stop sorry when you would place a bet it would say cool do you wanna two x multiplier so you put down ten cents it could this could be worth thirty cents if you watch this ad and then you would watch it add and the thing would like invariably spin and tell you what your multiplier is and like sometimes you get like you know just a one point five x multiplier so it's like try again watch another ad and these guys were just ar arbitration the shit out of this where people will just watch a bunch of ads in order to get their multiplier higher and eventually they would just make a ad just sports bet and lose it all back to the bank anyways and so they never were actually giving out like very few people ever ever cashed out and i just remember in college being like this guy whoever this is behind this is my hero okay you guys listen to this publishers clearing house did you guys look it up publishers clearing house reportedly did a billion dollars in sales in two thousand and eighteen and the way that it works is they own eight different websites one of them being publishing clearing house like their main website and you can see giveaways that they're doing like right now i there's one win a three million dollar dream home and you enter your email and in order to get more entries you have to buy a magazine subscription or a piece of merchandise and they take a massive amount of of of affiliate revenue that's all that's all it does so these that's insane by the way this is insane so what mister my mind i don't my mind is the literally exploding right now this is the existed since the fifties i mean you wanted to explode more go to pc h dot com their website well look at this fucking awful website it's just all black with one old guy holding a check and it says you on the check and then it says win seven million dollars a week or some of those develops a week for life there's the whole website what's what's going on these guys these guys do a billion this is a billion dollar company yeah man you're a canadian and sean you've lived on all of the world but if you grow up like if you go to your gram like when i was kid i go to my grandmother's house and watch tv like this is what the grandma would watch and they had a tv show where they would take that big fat check and bring it to you like it was like a famous thing and like the commercials were famous this is also the big check just a genius move by whoever was like you know what you know what you know what we're gonna do there's a lot of money that's a little check we're gonna go with a jumbo jumbo check and the jumbo check is like embedded in my brain from like you know my child of like that's the what you know what winning feels like at the highest level like i wish when we sold our company and was on handed me a big check i would taken less money if they're like but we'll throw in the big check pray you i pray you were you raised in america i was yeah and i remember the commercials it'd be like thank you when when like one grand two grand per week per for life i remember those yeah yeah this is like a huge thing it's still big i mean this company has probably made like twenty or thirty billion dollars in profits since its inception we just spawned like you know two thousand more scheme out there who are gonna create little crummy knock off of this old women love this shit me and my grandma used to watch this shit all the time it was great i mean this not it was like fun for us so there's a there's a a product we meant to talk about a couple weeks ago called hive greg you heard a hive but i feel like this might be kinda on your radar if you've heard of this h y b e dot com yeah at the box mystery mystery box mystery pop yeah company so if you go to hive dot com you see a whole bunch of boxes i like the design of the site and it's like louis vuitton box nike box you know an off white box like these exclusive boxes and and so you buy these boxes and there's some some item inside and it's gonna either be you know worth the same amount that you paid for the box because like the louis vuitton box for example one of them is we're is for twenty five bucks and then other one's for two fifty bucks to buy the box and you might get something worth way more you might get something worth this that same amount or less it's a game of chance and when you first join they're like here's your first box open it up i wanna a pod case or something like that and it's like awesome do you wanna just recycle like do not want this product you can just recycle it into high credits or pay for shipping and you can get this product and i was like man this this is like the same flow that wish dot com or the wish app uses and i was like this is this is a great product and i tried to find who are the founders of this i couldn't get i could not find who's behind this thing but respect because i think this is very i i didn't invest i'd didn't invest yeah exactly that's why i trying to find the founders i was like how do how do i invested this day these guys had been around for a minute like there's there was a mis it was called mystery box dot com i believe and they would advertise like crazy with the logan brothers low or logan paul yeah those two kids they would advertise with them like crazy alright here's another take on this guys this is actually a legit as a susan a scam this one lady had this candle company and it was doing okay and what she decided to do was put a diamond in one of the candles and every other one candle had a twenty thousand dollar diamond the rest had like a like a cheap stone and it's huge it's a i forget what it's called but it we covered it i believe and that's another take on this people would buy these candles just to see if they got the winning one right the willy won method it's and it was pretty cool like it's kind of like it makes it fun like it's a fun gift yeah so many ideas dude okay dude this is great i'm glad you came back on we should wrap it up but if you have ideas for subreddit ideas i want you to actually tweet it at greg so you're your twitter handle i it's just your name right at greg is yep at greg ge we'll put it in the the comments of this let us know what you think if you guys love greg let us know that we have greg on more if you hey greg let us know that we'll never let greg on again we have a deal but at least we got our new name podcast bueno so greg good good times man bueno idea zone idea source idea outsource yeah alright thanks anna i appreciate it cool take care see yeah alright that's gonna be it for part one of the episode with greg is part two is coming on friday so it's a back to back brainstorm we went long and so we decided hey let's keep it all in let's cut it up into into a two part so i hope you enjoyed this one moore coming on friday and if you're not already in the facebook group well what are you doing get in facebook i don't know why you wouldn't be in facebook group if you listen to the podcast the group has a ton people people share what projects they're working on they get ideas they find partners they investment they get advice a bunch of good things happening there so join the group and i will see you on friday