#70 - Making Money In 48 Hours, Fat FIRE & How To Collect $2M

alright we got a friend of the show here jordan harbinger he's one of the guys who's been advising us on how to build this podcast because his podcast is way more successful than ours has been around he's been doing podcasting for like twelve and half years which jordan that's gotta be as long as podcasting has existed right yeah i think pod podcast podcasts have been around for like fourteen years and i've or fifteen and i've been around for thirteen of those so yeah when i started there was no way there were no iphones so you couldn't get podcasts on your phone you had to use an ipod to play them yeah straight to cassette that's how that's how long these guy's been doing it so so jordan you know i like i like your show i've been binge binging it while in quarantine because you know what else am i gonna do besides i just try to learn something new or improve myself in some way and i gotta say like it because you do the you know the interview style show where you go deep with a guest i think you know you had i was listening to the one with tony hawk which is pretty awesome and i gotta say i like that you don't do the kind of surface level you know just just pit you know pity padding around with the questions or trying to do you know inspirational fluff where you're just saying go you can do this so with that episode with tony hawk what was that like tony hawk an icon how was it of you know interviewing tony hawk it was great he's a really interesting guy really open and fun and he told some pretty funny stories one which was very apr rapport what what's going on right now is one day he walked into his agent or some sort of marketing team that he'd hired he walked into their office this is like at the height of video games where he's making i don't know well fifty million bucks off these skating games and these brands and he goes in and he says look i got this backpack that was made pretty s and it's got my name and face on it i don't want any more stuff like that and as the agent marketer or whatever is sort of nodding his head understanding tony goes wait what's that on your shelf and it was a roll of toilet paper with tony hawk name face and logo on it and he goes what the hell is that and the guy goes oh yeah anything we put your name and face on does so well we were joking that we could put your face on toilet paper and we'd still be able to sell it and he fired them on the spot because it was clear that they didn't value his brand which i thought was a funny story and he's got a ton of stuff like that that he talked about on the show that is epic you know i actually met tony hawk we went on a trip to africa a charity trip together and believe it or not we were halfway up of a mountain in ethiopia where you know it's a like this a mountain village and somebody saw him there and they were like tony hawk you know that's one of the only english word they said to us all day they identified tony hawk on a in ethiopia that's how famous that guy is so that's an amazing guest to have on the show imagine being that famous that you get recognized in the middle of countries where like nobody speaks your language and they maybe don't even have skateboard yeah we were there trying to give people clean water they didn't even have water but then knew tony hawk that's how that's how famous i got amazing awesome well if you wanna hear more from jordan we're gonna be having him on more and more he's a friend of friend of the house and you should listen to the show it's one of the podcast podcasts that i would recommend if you liked tim ferris this stuff if you like our stuff you're gonna like his stuff and so go check out the jordan harbour show on itunes and spotify wherever you get your podcast you'll find him there this guy he was owed two million dollars and i was like why didn't you fly over to where he lived and get that fucking money and he was like oh now i i'd ruin my reputation and i was like ruined they'll create a reputation as someone you don't like sam what's up dude nothing you got a fresh haircut but we already made all of our jokes off the air so i don't know i can't really repeat them now yeah i've got a shaved head my head was itchy so i just did the damn thing okay cool do you wanna just jump in or should we do a little small talk patty cake or how do wanna do it jump right into okay so i wanna talk about a few resources that i like and it's stems off of what you tweeted okay talk about kanye west okay let's talk about kanye we'll start with kanye kanye was the billy of the week for this week so i read this article in forbes that i just thought it was made too so basically the article comes out and it's it it was saying okay kanye is what kanye west is a billionaire which is cool because i feel like it wasn't too long ago he was either broke or saying that he was broke and like asking people for money on the internet i figured who he was asking he was asking like mark zuckerberg for money and he was like i can do yes because anyways but the funny part of the article was having that it wasn't forbes just reporting the kanye it was a billionaire it was kanye telling forbes i'm a billionaire right about me and he so the article was basically saying kanye came to us he really upset that he was not on the billionaire list or something like that he tells us he's worth three billion dollars and sir and then he gave us all his financials so that we can verify that he's worth it they're like you know good news he is a billionaire bad news is not three billion we think he's worth one billion and and then kanye is like disgruntled about this he's like it's three okay it's three and so they're they're just going back and forth and so i just thought it pretty pretty interesting see and he he also told everyone he wants he wants them to be they he wants his name to be christian what was it like no way i didn't see this part yeah he's like i am so mad about this i'm gonna change my name to kanye christian billionaire good guy west or something or no like christian genius billionaire west yeah or something like that james is always a great celebrity move chad t was the the the first i remember you know run our test becoming metal world peace hilarious you know that's when you've when you've really gone off the defense and you do the name change so yeah so so somebody others included the numbers okay so he owns okay so from from music you know he doesn't have sort of the billionaire status right so like they think that his label and music sort of worth roughly ninety million bucks then outside of music and forgetting about his yee brand he's got seventeen million dollars in cash thirty five million in stocks wait he he had seventeen million dollars in cash yeah wait i didn't see that yeah so seventeen million dollars in cash assets thirty five million in stock assets eighty one million in buildings and improvements and twenty one million in land and that they were saying you know the eighty one million and twenty million of land and and homes that he owns they're like those aren't gonna be worth that because when you do this ultra high end real estate the but the next buyer wants to customize their own shit they don't wanna buy your customer well yeah so he well he cut he built his own homes right when you build like highly it's like michael jordan filter sale yes yeah and so he and then he has a hundred million dollars in debt so you could definitely think he's rich i think we both like that one book by what's the name dennis dennis phillips felix dennis felix dennis and he has his line in there which is if you can count your money you're not rich and it seems like kanye is in that boat where he he can't exactly count calculate his net worth it's like you have to make a bunch of approximation yeah about you know approximately there's approximately that so he's definitely rich on the yee z's brand which is his kinda shoe line that came out i don't know five six years ago maybe he owns a hundred percent of it but it's like produced and manufactured and distributed by adidas so he has some some split with them so two thousand nineteen he one point three billion in sales on the yee brand which is kind of insane actually that a a rapper was able to sort of have a a jordan nes brand there he gets an eleven percent royalty which is a hundred forty million on that so every pair yee he gets eleven percent he did a hundred and forty million last year but then there's a big question mark like what is easiest he's worth well you do you you have to apply some multiple to this this you know this cash source and you have to assume some things about how long this is gonna last and also could he even sell this because once it's not associated with him is it worth anything this kinda like the kylie cosmetics problem where it's so tied to her brand that in some ways it reduces the asset value so what do you think of all this when you're reading this stuff about kanye well i i just wanted like the headline i mean i wanted the headline or the stuff headline to be like he's now a billionaire and did it by marrying into the cardiac right family i i mean i think that i think that i think they're geniuses i think they're amazing and he i don't really was excited according to the the author he was excited that he was worth you know three hundred million more than kylie who was just at one billion a petty one billion yeah i i i think that i don't give a shit about this i think that it's kinda it's interesting to see what's more interesting to i like seeing how people allocate their money and so that's cool i don't give a shit about kanye i think he's fine as a musician i like some of his music he's i think he's a crazy person and i don't care about him but it's cool like i wonder why he has seventeen million in cash that's crazy yeah i don't know it it also might be that might be part of the loan it's just cash he hasn't deployed yet and so anyways i the thing i found most interesting was how much more he's been able to off yee z's than his music right so like this is yet another example of you know michael jordan made at his peak i don't know thirty forty million a year playing basketball and and his salary there which you know after taxes is gonna be like fifteen million bucks and but he became you know sort of billionaire status because of his shoe brand and you know the kardashians also you know they get the fame in one place put the money in from another direction and i think that like very interesting to see how celebrities are gonna use their assets we were talking about this with lance armstrong how do you use your brand in a way that's gonna monetize at a much higher rate than like it does today you know your direct job did i'm mean i'm interested that i think the easiest the fact that yee these are doing over a billion dollars a year in sales on their shoes is is pretty crazy yeah i think that's that's a far more interesting angle i mean that's like what we're doing with this podcast for matt not gonna make much money from the podcast but we'll make a more money and our shoe line will be if i can sick and you know we won't have ugly shoes easy are ugly so that's the other thing i mean who bought this you know billion dollars worth all these ugly shoes okay so have you heard of this subreddit called fat fire yes i like this read a lot tilt with that fire trim a fire fat fire yeah so fire stands for financially independent i actually don't what's financially independent retire early got it okay so traditionally this was like people who were had white collar jobs and they'd like work their hardest to save a million dollars and that meant that they can live off of forty to eighty grand a year and and live relatively frugal but they try to get there by like thirty or forty cool great there's a lean fire which is people who try to live like five hundred thousand dollars and they moved to thailand or something so and there's subreddit for lean fire they're subreddit for fire and then there's this other subreddit called fat fire and by this fat meaning you it's people who wanna live wealthy miles while being fire what's sample financially independent retire early yeah i think so so there's no definition of this it just basically means whatever you want you could have and so if that means you wanna fly private then it's all talks about that typically it probably means people who wanna have income of five hundred thousand to a million dollars a year off of their assets now it's a subreddit with maybe twenty or thirty thousand members and it's pretty cool and so the top headlines are which i'll read i i just reading it their day it was some okay so and you have to take this with the grain salt because sometimes you don't know who's posting up and if they're lit legit but alright so here's some posts that have a lot of comments how do real estate investors pay zero dollars on their real estate income that's incredibly interesting do you guys find it hard to be happy and just relax that's an awesome post am i crazy to buy two million dollar house in the bay area while all my way to fat fire and then finally this one was interesting which was oh how much cash to high net worth people keeping their bank accounts and then one more there was one more which was like i'm in air about to retire about to inherit a billion dollars in businesses how do i set make things up so something like that like i don't know if that's actually true here's a oh here's one more how has your significant other affected your fat fire plans right so it's a pretty cool subreddit and my okay so there's a lot of pros and cons the cons to this is i think these people are naturally pretty pessimistic and so that's you have to be careful with that and like they're planning for the downside do you mean or something else no a lot of the people here are are people who are who like started a plumbing company and they just grew it after twenty or thirty years and so i think that they're not that risk adverse and that's good that provides value though but you have to understand who you're getting a feedback from i also think that a lot of the people who are part of this subreddit are people who work at netflix and have worked there for years and are climbing up the chain and make amazing living but if they got laid off they would be fucked so they're not necessarily like creators but it's still really interesting to see how people think about money how they spend it's a wonderful subreddit i've learned a ton it's great for resources people all anonymous been people be like here's how i allocate my money i keep this year this year during this whole payment protection thing this this loan thing that's going out right now i learned a lot on how to do it in the subreddit i learned a lot about taxes it's an incredibly interesting subreddit so you've been spending time on it so i don't go to the separate regularly but i did dive in at one point when i was like i first heard about it through the mister money mustache guy which he's like one of the kind of like i don't know four others of this or he's one of the kind leaders of the movement and i like it because it's it's not just you know personal finance it's a very specific lifestyle and so just a high level they have these ideas right so you have your savings rate so what percentage of income you have today are you saving so maybe you're at twenty five percent fifty percent seventy five percent so one big pieces is how do you save more because that gets plugged into okay if your savings rate is you know x and you're gonna work for y years then you're gonna have the z years of savings you know pent up and then they have this kinda like four percent rule which basically means like you wanna be able to if if it if you have you know sort of twenty five years of life expense of life expenses then you're sort of at the four percent rule where you're able to withdraw my money for living every year but you're not like d deleting your assets your net worth and so anyways i like the idea behind it i think it's great i think everybody wants to be financially dependent everybody wants to be able to retire early if they so choose meaning not be obligated to do any specific type of job or work but you know obviously the way to get there is very tricky and i like fat fire because i found that when i first looked into the fire movement i was like oh this is cool all i gotta do is move to a small town in nebraska ride my bike to the grocery stores to so i don't have a car and don't pay for gas like you know buy the cheapest food possible go home and like you know make my own fire out of sticks like like okay yeah that's like yes i'm retired but like this is not the lifestyle i want so fat fire is good because it's like hey look i wanna have this baller lifestyle i wanna have this fat lifestyle i'm not looking to like cut back and like live well below my means that's not exactly what i'm interested in so i like this i've read a lot more than when i first discovered the fire movement yeah it's cool it's been fun to read and there's some good stuff like i saw this post just now when you link the subreddit which is like the fat fired guide to pre and this is just like interesting stuff that you don't hear talked about everywhere and so you know i like to check those out yeah or there'll be a guy who owns like five hundred apartment units and he'll say i actually make the most amount of money off low income housing and and then there's another and and which i never i'd never in a million years would've have thought that that you make it for more from like section eight housing projects or there'll be another one where a person is in real estate and they go yeah like stop thinking about like you're gonna live here you're not gonna live here so just as long as it just looks good enough like it has a clean coat white paint you're good right and like just little bits of like advice like that i have found that sub to be amazing and if i was you you being the listener i would check out some of these facebook groups so i've discovered all these different facebook groups along with long along the way that i've really liked so my buddy tyler started this one called the passive income club it's not that great of a group i think it's kinda fizz out now but it maybe four or five years ago was really active tyler who tyler hayes and the passive income club was cool because it was just people who were spinning up passive income projects and they would just talk about them and i thought that was cool it was was interesting to ceo this guy's trying to like you know sell soap over here and he's generating four thousand dollars a month of passive income and then there's another one which is i like joining white coat investors which is doctors it's a club it's a facebook group for doctors who are who wanna talk about how to invest their money and i just find that interesting because doctors think so differently than people in silicon valley there's like a lot of doctors out there so i like that group there's the same one for real estate investors and then there's other ones that are like like you know the trans group obviously is a good one where people were talking about business the podcast has it has a group or sometimes people talk about their businesses but i just find it interesting to sort of surround yourself like with just a steady diet of information around the different ways that people sort of make and save money and the different ways they sort of lead their lives like i think that it's is much more interesting to me than my normal facebook views feed of like whatever you know stupid life go you're at a barbecue great speaking of passive income sean do you have income from products or businesses that you've made over the last couple of years that are still bringing you revenue no not really so i have i i basically get probably twenty five hundred a month off the passive income not a lot not i'm not counting like a stock investment or anything like just an actual revenue stream that comes to my pocket that i don't manage a i don't do work for that business but it's not a lot and because i've i found over time that like you know sort of the passive income dream before or work we dream where you create this muse and it just magically gives you ten k a month like it takes actually quite a bit of time to get there so yes if you do get one set up great it's it's awesome when it is passive it but it's like extremely active to make something passive in in the first place and so i always get like sort of two days into it or two weeks into it and i'm like well you know this is taking up so much time just trying to architect the passive business and i tend to be like usually like i'm running a startup or i'm like you know have a like okay i'm on the exec team at twitch i just like i have something already that is active that makes me a lot more money than these little side things would do and i i remember a long time ago my dad told me let you know a small project and a big project both take up all of your time so just choose to the big one and so i i believe that that's true during the creation phase now it's true now some people do get it going where they get it to the point where it's truly it's truly passive and so the active phase stops i just haven't spent the time to like do that yet and i don't i don't know if that's good i don't think i ever will at this point because like i would want like twenty k a month coming in from it to like feel really good about it and i don't think it's i think it gets hard to get past businesses up to that level i think it's easy to get it to where my current one is twenty five hundred a month i think that's easy i think getting to ten or twenty or thirty k takes more time and ends looking at a lot more active than anything i have a few things that roll in regularly and then a few things that roll in here regularly so i've had a few investments start so i have well first of all not now but up until recently stock market was paying great but that's just more stock appreciation right that's not like a yeah correct but that was passive i guess yeah technically wasn't count that as passive that i i do that right so and then i had do you have like property as well right yeah i don't those like i did it some with family so i don't but that's not i don't own all of them and then i i did angel investments that paid off so that's a lumpy yeah that was passive but lumpy it's not every month i own parts of other companies but i take zero cash flow out of them but they're profitable but then i also started blogging in two thousand twelve and i still make hundreds of dollars sometimes many thousands of dollars a month off of little affiliate revenue right from blog posts right like we and then i know you make off this podcast we don't consider that passive because we act this isn't this is income but it's not passive income right at but then so i have affiliate revenue of just stuff that just has been sitting there accumulating but then i also made a guide like a ebook book on i don't even wanna say exactly what it is is but basically it was a guide on moving to new cities and for a long time it was making like five grand a month and it still does pretty good that's awesome and i just log in a gum road and it's like okay there's money there and it's pretty cool yeah it is great you know like in more property i wanna hear a bunch of other passive businesses because i just find them interesting but i i guess like i went through the sort of excitement phase and then the experimentation phase and maybe i just suck at it but i definitely found that like it takes a lot of energy to get it to to get it to that point where it's just beating you five to ten k a month of like passive income and and it's not oh it's not most most of the time i mean other than investments like it's not necessarily passive it's just something you you build a business and then you just don't spend a lot of time managing mostly automated yes what else do you wanna to talk about okay let's pick another okay so here's kind of here's a related alright so there's this guy i don't know how to his last name but make nikita beer i don't know if you knew who this guy is so he started a company that was called tv h do you do you know t h it wasn't an app it was an app and it got viral it got bought by facebook it was a viral facebook it was a viral like a hundred million drop off a hundred million bucks and these guys had been cranking for for like six seven years like when we were doing our ideal lab these guys were also just building social apps for i think five they're the guys who figured out how to create viral niche apps right no they they were doing the sync called tb which was like a kind of a quiz quiz style thing that was going viral for high schoolers in america yeah yeah yeah okay and and he tweeted about how he did it which was they created viral communities exactly they yeah there's a good if you just google i don't know make nikita beer like facebook leaked memo leaked email or something like that he basically writes an email to the to his colleagues i guess at facebook after he got acquired and he's like hey you know we're talking about growth like here's the system we use that tb to grow this thing we would create an instagram page for the high school it would be called this it would be the profile would be all black the bio would say this is launching on you know march twenty second at four pm and we would go follow all the people who are from that high school and we would have on account on private so they would request to follow us and we would not accept any request until march twenty second and we would accept all of them at once and then they would all get a notification and then they would come in and the app would be there in our and they would download it and then they would all get notified that the friend has the app and he was like was talking about this whole system of how they activated these high schools yeah was it amazing it was it was great it was very scrappy very much a hustle so anyways he tweeted this out the other it was very controversial which i'm surprised at he goes my favorite pm interviews product manager interview question is if you had forty eight hours to make money on the internet how would you do it and and so a lot of people responding being like this is a stupid interview question because why would a product manager need to know how to like get rich quick on the internet that's something we job fuck would say that of course they need tons of people were saying it was crazy and they're like yeah see how this will tell you if someone's gonna be an effective product manager and he was and so he he was like you know because you know if you're in a big company right you're in a company like facebook it's not like when you get there you need to like generate cash flow in forty eight hours that's true but his point was he was like look i wanna know i wanna hire somebody who really understands how the internet works and how distribution works and how monetization works on the internet and if you can't explain how you would do it then i don't think you know i think there's a lot of pms out there who just like to make powerpoint points and yeah his top replies i he goes alright so he tweeted out he goes an interview question then they use a filter out product managers managers who are not scrappy or or internet illiterate you have forty hours to make money on the internet how would you do it it got twenty one hundred lights and his and he replied immediately so i apologize to all the powerpoint wizards who are upset by this question there always be a home for ux ed accenture yeah frank this guy's awesome straight reply this guy's awesome so and so okay that's your interview question sam what would you say how how long would your answer be if you were put on the spot to that do i have a name or am i sam par or can i not use my normal you're a normal person you're sam jones forty eight hours well the easiest thing is you go in fiber and offer a free a cheap service i wouldn't wanna do that but i would do that right if i had the skills i had it it would i would i would create a fiber job probably around some type of writing or editing and i would and i would say i'm gonna make this yours better by three hundred percent or your money back right and i could probably make money off that right away or i would go to ali express and find some shit cheap product right would probably ten of them and i would spend money to advertise against them right and get sales what else would i do i would create a a post i would what sell some type of information what could i sell though something using gum road that's a great question what would you do so very my first instinct was okay the time constraint here is the forty eight hours that's the tough part so you have to use something that can be that can start generating revenue quickly so drop shipping was the first thing that can do on so i would do the i would do the all express i would spin up ten stores and i would be running quick facebook ad tests to figure out which of these products is there demand for and i would start selling them and i would actually first start by just opening up my instagram feed and i would see what products are already selling and then i would go cologne that ad and i would just clone them and compete exactly i would i would do no i would because i don't have time to take risks so i would literally copy their ad copy their product copy their ali express thing and spin up the store right away so drop shipping i think is the easiest one or no i think the easiest one would probably go to goodwill and take pictures of loads and loads of stuff and put so there's flipping which you could do the like even the fiber or up upwork route so first i was like okay one category is guaranteed income you you you don't wanna take risk but you're not gonna make a lot but you're gonna make something and i think that's where the fiber up upwork like you might make a couple hundred bucks type of thing another way to do it and this is kinda like i kinda cheated because i told you okay you're not sample but i was like another way to do it would be i would immediately create a course and i would offer all the podcast listeners and like i could generate tens of thousands of dollars i think just within twenty four hours of that i could pre pre sell a course the other one is you can email your whole network and be like hey you're gonna get five months of consulting but you gotta pay up upfront you know right now if you if you want my time but i need money in the next four whoever wants my consulting for the next five months here you go so there's some things like that the other i thought interesting things were this is somebody linked to something that thought that was pretty hilarious i had never heard of this before so somebody first linked to a million dollar home homepage which i knew about they're like oh i create this now that's a dumb idea because you need to go viral so you're you know low odds of success but then somebody else linked to this thing called save toby dot com have you seen this no i'm kinda finding that so i think it's old i think it's like gone now but i read it here's here's the story so somebody put up website with this really cute bunny this is messed up by the way this is like a total like messed up thing to do but i thought it was very interesting that this actually happened in real life so somebody put up this picture of this bunny and they were essentially like you know this bunny gonna get i'm gonna cook this bunny for dinner unless you donate and donate whatever it was i forget like twenty five thousand dollars to this to this webpage page right now and they're like you know tomorrow's dinner will be this bunny toby unless toby gets paid for and so people started and so this obviously goes viral because people think it's so messed up peter gets all crazy about it some people think it's hilarious people start calling the governor the this are calling godaddy and be like hey godaddy take this down this guy's like you know terrorists he's like you know holding this bunny ransom i and god godaddy was like hey there's no rules against eating rabbit like you can eat rabbit people do that so we can't tell those person you can't you can't say that you're gonna cook a rabbit that's what people do and so i just thought this was like a really crazy internet thing that i somehow was not a part of when it happened that's a good idea okay here's another one that's similar to that ab do you own your own it actually sean you own your own domain name yeah do you just take some domain ransom bra u dot com has taken first but i could pay seventy dollars somehow and get it but what i could what you another thing i would do if i to make money is i would find fifty of my friends and see who's domain name i could buy for hopefully ten dollars and i would email them in and be like for a hundred dollars you'll have i'll have a website and i'll put you your re i'll post your resume on right i'll make the portfolio up there and i think people would do that yeah and you know there's this is an interesting i this is an interesting question and i think everybody should think about this because it's gonna you're gonna it's gonna challenge you to think about something right like where are the there's the obvious ideas you gravitate towards and then what are the non obvious ideas what are the what are the unusual ways to do it i remember me and my my in my very first startup up we were broke and we were like really frustrated with how slow our project was coming along and we did this challenge we did a forty eight hour challenge actually the whole blog is up i'll put it in the show notes but we did a forty eight hour challenge where we were like alright screw it forget this whole you know cloud kitchen restaurant thing we're we're gonna do a business in the next forty eight hours this weekend we're gonna make money and we essentially we didn't know what drop shipping was but we ended up doing that where we created these little it's called it was called fat bands there's this fat wrist bands that were like these silicone wristband that you could write custom text on and we were like great we could sell these disparities f alternatives with their name on it and they'll buy it for their events their mixer their whatever and we ended up doing it we made a few i don't he have a few hundred bucks five hundred bucks something like that within forty eight hours because we sold it to of all things someone in our someone in our friends group their dad was having the fort birthday party and they're like oh this is great we'll give it out to everybody at the birthday party and they they placed a big order or whatever and so that was our we did this in real life this is a great question i'm gonna use it i'm i'm using this question in your interviews do you have any other interview questions that you like to go to well i already told some of them on a scale one to ten how lucky do you feel oh that's right and then the did i tell you about the bottom fourth of the resume that i like to do no what's that so i do this particularly for writers and i was gonna write a post or a tweet storm on on interviewing writers but a lot of people don't know how to interview writers and one of my favorite things to do is i asked them about the bottom fourth of the resume so at the bottom fourth of the resume it talks about fun stuff so or stuff not relate to work so for example where you went to college what clubs you're part of and so what i like to ask people is they'll say i studied history at duke university and i'll say i'll look at that and be like you said duke do history at duke what was your favorite course and why and i want them to be able to entertain me and i want them to be able to tell story and i want them to be able to convince me if something interesting because if they're not able to do that then i don't wanna work with them because they're probably just either on they're for sure on interesting right if you spend tens of thousands of dollars and four years doing something and you can't be passionate about something then i doubt i wanna be around you and b in particular for a writer you can't interest me on something you spent all that time and money on that you for sure can't do something that's gonna you know like on anything else right and so i love asking about the bottom fourth of the resume okay and seeing how if they they have the ability to hold my attention and to ent me nice i like that i think i might have and i we did talk about this once but i had one like this that i i learned from this guy which was he would say at the end of the interview he would be like like oh by the way you know i have a friend coming to town this this weekend you know what's something fun we could we we should do what we gonna i what i do with my friend and and then people will usually just be like like if i asked you that like you might just be i don't know what would you say i would say yeah i i i would tell you a tour of what what i think you should do in san francisco i would say go to twin peaks and then drive down through ocean beach and then go have lunch of the cliff house right so most people do an answer like that and what this guy was looking for in his role because he was hiring for it was like i think he's like a marketing role he's he's he had a marketing agency or ad agency so what he was looking for was if the person would ask a question first and be like like what what yeah like who's your friend is this like your aunt or is this like your buddy from college you know what what are they into and oh you know and he's like because the core thing for his his agency's philosophy and they were very public about their philosophy which is like you start with the audio and you figure out okay what are they already into and how do we appeal to those you know those those topics as well as the like emotions that they want and then you're like okay cool once i know that then i create my content to to fit them and so he he said he liked that he he said he he he was saying that the best people he hired for for his company for his marketing agency they would first try to figure out more about the person before just giving an answer i was like okay that's pretty good i'm gonna tell you about this other interview one time zane and jack so my good friend started v which just sold about a year ago for eight hundred million dollars and i i'm the jack's is my best friend i actually interviewed to work there in two thousand and twelve and i didn't know jack at the time at all other than he was the guy who i supposed to talk to and i was applying to be a salesperson in zane who now i'm good friends with he's he's weird zane a weirdo he's one of my good buds but he's freaking weird he tries to be a hard ass and i he comes in he so what are you like really good at i was like i'm pretty good at convincing people stuff and i'm i'm pretty good at getting to know just about anyone and he goes well there's about twenty employees in that room go out and walk around and introduce yourself all and like get them to know you and i was like right now and he goes yeah go go do it alright so i just walked out and i just started walking around and talking to people and and he got and i came back and he goes was he like hang on one second and he went out and walked her around the room to see who all met me and what like they do anything about he came back he goes alright they you seemed like you did okay job i i'm getting to know them like it was so weird it was so weird dude i had that for when i joined monkey inferno they i showed up at the office and the guy the main guy it was all engineers and the reason they wanted a product person was because they were like oh the reason we're not succeeding we're not talking to users we don't understand our users well enough so we wanna see if you can understand users and i was like yeah for sure and they're like cool let's go and we walked over to west lake mall our west mall right here in san francisco and he's like okay i wanna get feedback on our product so go like get me five people to give me feedback and so i had to walk around and basically like a pickup artist i had to go up to people in the mall and be like hey and i was just right up like i was supposed to get them to come over to this table and do a a user interview with them like as they walk through the website and like get them to talk what they think about the website and so i was like okay how am gonna do this these people do not wanna spend their time doing this in the real world i would just offer them like you know some money for this but in this case i was just like hey i'm on a job interview right now and you can help me get this job i need you to go over here and talk to this guy for five minutes about his web about this website they're testing if i can recruit users and so it would really help me get this job and everyone's was like did you get it yeah no problem i mean course he did yeah they were like no problem and he didn't know that that's you know the he was just like wow this guy like very persuasive he was able to recruit all these people real quick but i was like pulling the like you know that's a good one to yeah i could see you being great at that here's another thing here's something similar i and i to do this on my own i started doing this in great school and i would do it in high school in order learn how to sell sell people's stuff i would pick this is when phone existed i would go through the or the white pages and i would just call number and my goal was to get them to recommend a movie that i should go and see and if you can get good at that it's a lot easier to do other things so you're not clearly at yeah i'd be like like hey like hey sarah and i'm like no this is brad of like oh it's not well shit i was able to call my friend ass for a movie recommendation because i'm not gonna go meet someone what the hell just go ahead tell me what should i see like you know what i mean so you were literally doing this two practice yeah i used to do a fair bit what did you idea who's random i just read about it online it it was originally meant for like picking up girls but i wanted to do it on how to sell stuff and it worked it works great it's a really good tool to learn how to i could still i mean i'm i'm definitely good at it i can do it now my i might do right after this okay great what else we wanna talk about i see a couple things on the list do you have one that jumps out to you no okay i mean they all are interesting you go fire i'm gonna give you one alright so this is oh let's do the this guy okay yeah talk about it okay so someone posted this in the trends facebook group and our trends facebook group if you wanna join i'm gonna plug it go to trends dot c sign up three hundred dollars if you guys actually have commerce specific ones this was in the so specific vertical you guys have now yeah so we have we do research on lots of different opportunities and now we have an e commerce specific e commerce specific one and one of the more active members his name is drew crawford he i think he has a agency so he it seems like he knows his stuff and he found these guys called what is how do you say that josh joe jaws or size it's like like size it's like a horse bit like where you see like a horse chewing on it's like a this like size of a tic tac box and you put it in your mouth and i think you just like cli down on it and and they say that it makes your jaw line more chiseled so for the record fucking bullshit right it does not i don't i i just don't think that that's how this works i mean i think the best way to get a chiseled all online is you have to lose weight but these guys are selling these product for forty dollars and he listed their landing page and all types of stuff and according to him they are he put their numbers in here he did his research and he said that they're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a day on ad oh they're spending two hundred to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars per day oh sorry they're making two hundred to two hundred and fifty thousand per day in revenue so someone else from the group was like hey i kinda have the inside scoop here i know the people who are the people behind it they're doing between two hundred turns decay per day in revenue which is crazy and then the other guy was looking at the youtube video because he's like they must be spending a ton to market this because the videos behind the youtube ad the the youtube ad has like two point one million views and he's like you know that would cost you you know couple hundred thousand dollars of ad spend because these your not organic views that getting these are paid ad views and so he was kind of just looking at he's he he he originally said these guys must be printing money because look how much they're spending on this thing and then somebody else came in and said yes they basically are printing much me it's crazy sean what does your take on getting rich selling shit so i i yeah so this i don't think that this is i wanna be careful with my words because we've been criticized for this okay so this in a scam i don't think because they're saying something and they they definitely on the site say like this is not maybe approved but i mean you don't have to be approved so they're definitely not like breaking any laws here but i think it the it literally says on the website the only in all caps the only natural way to chi your jaw which is frankly not true okay so that is bullshit okay i didn't see that but and if it's like twenty one million views not super one million views which is crazy but what's your take and by the way the site super ugly just proof that copywriting and all this shit matters way more than anything right what does your take on like what do think about this stuff like it does this make you so let's say there's a spectrum right on one hand like if on the far left is like i hate this this disgust me and you know these guys are are crooks basically and on the right is like you know total respect you know mother teresa this is the best thing ever right so that's the spectrum of like possibilities and i'm you know somewhere in the middle so the reason why i'm in the middle is i don't i i i personally don't really judge people for kind of like the the the stupidity of their schemes so you know if you wanna do that with your time i view that as like your prerogative now do i think you should people no right and so this is on that line where i don't care that they made a stupid product i don't care that they're even kind of claiming that it can help your jaw line but it depends how much they're gonna claim here right so like you know the only natural way to chi your jaw line yeah i don't really believe that but but the other part where it's like you know this is this provides a workout to your jaw it can help slim your thing it's like if you say it can help okay i'm cool with that so like to me they're not in the fraud bucket where they're just literally stealing or taking people's money and not delivering a product or delivering something with like total false health claims i personally don't put them in that bucket because i've seen what that bucket looks like on the other side i think there's a lot of merit to like building simple things that appeal to people making money doing it and you know while i don't think that's a good career move and it's kind of a waste of potential like these people could also be doing better things you know who am i have judge how someone else spends their time if you wanna spend your time doing this more power to you i i personally don't have the sort of people get freaking enraged by this stuff and i don't i think that you know if somebody wants to piss away their time doing this let let them do it we i'm friends with this guy on facebook who has this business called snow have you heard of it yes lightning he yeah and what it is is they it's like it looks like a mouth guard and you put like some goo on it which i imagine actually the whitening part and then you put this light on next to it and it like somehow it they say it tightens your teeth right i think i i don't think that shit works i i thought put it i think it works i tried that i've used a not snow but i've used a different product like that before because so was doing it before our wedding and so she was like try this thing and so i tried it it just made by two feel real sensitive but so i didn't really like it but was it crest white strips or was the white strips have been around this was the this was the put in your mouth uv thing and you do it for like whatever ten minutes and it's supposed to make a teeth and it did make her teeth wider i personally was like this is annoying i don't wanna do this every night but you know see i i i think it does white teeth i think it's temporary though i mean i read reviews from dented to i i i did i went that so the reason why i'm bring this up is he posted that they his screenshot of their back end and it was two point eight million dollars this week in sales which is on you know that's a hundred million dollars a year and i was like i think that's a scale like i i don't think that product is legit and i don't i think dentist universally would probably say no that's that that that i won't do it so i don't know the but i don't know the truth and i wonder like what i'd be willing to do that for that amount of cash i i don't think i would i don't i i don't think i would be able to to do that yeah you know what i think it just comes down to is it a actual scam and like if it's a scam then obviously no i don't think it's a scam like this jaw thing i don't think it's a scam because like it might work a little right it might actually exercise your jaw muscles so which is you know what it's to do your cheek does that give you a chi jawline line no does no actually white in your teeth i personally think it does but is it the best way probably not so you and i don't know like it's like those info influential products you would see back in the day of like you know the electrical stimulation on your abs it's like just sit there and watch tv and eat chips and watch this will work out your muscles for you as it shocks your muscles and it's like okay you know if i'm dumb up to buy that shame on me and try to my my feeling on it can i bring up something funny because it just popped up so one one thing that i love i just saw a notification one thing i love to do is engage with trolls and just idiots so with the hustle we have you know well over a million people who subscribe and people reply and a lot of times we don't reply to them because it's just like stupid stuff but this guy was like you're he goes you're linking to the new york times of wall street journal like you must be getting paid by them because their pay walled content and i replied with i wish they paid us but they don't but i'll go ahead and unsubscribe you and he replied back just now and he's like you're showing how an unethical you are and he talk he's talking about how i make c with him and he has his phone at the bottom i'm i'm just thinking i'm about a call this person and be like walk me through this process okay pull up the url that i linked to from the your new york times and show me how i'm able to make money off of that right because i wanna i wanna make money off of the price this is awesome if i could do you engage with like people like this i do all the time i love it i don't and i i usually don't as policy and sometimes on twitter i can't resist and i'll do it but for the most part i don't because i've also had these things like escalate like i've told you people have sent weird stuff to our office before i've had like mystery pine pinata show up and i'm like is this somebody who loves us or hates us and i don't know what's inside this pinata i've had people send me a full manuscript two hundred fifty pages of of a fake movie where i'm the character and so is my cto and my chief chief marketing officer and we're just talking and it just makes us it it's like it just shows how much were idiots and like somebody wrote that screen play that's kinda weird so this is people who escalated as people have called me threatening me saying you know there's one guy was just like you are spamming me i'm like no sir your friend emailed our thing to all of their contacts you know yeah that that's not gonna you didn't maybe want this email but like your friend sent this to you i did not send this send you this email and he was like you know sending me the can spam laws and all this stuff and so i've i've gotten into some weird situations where i'm like why you know i'm not actually doing anything wrong but people are you know either mega fans and it's weird or their mega haters and it's weird but like i don't know i'm trying not to to get two megs up in it well and let me bring up one more which is you me and one other person who we won't name i don't think we're saying anything bad but we won't name them just in case we do we're talking about what would happen if a person owed you money like a customer owed you right a lot of money and they didn't pay right and my response is i'm showing up to their house and i'm not gonna i'm not gonna i'm not gonna i'm not hurt anyone but i'm knocking gonna on their door when they're at home and i'm asking for that check and he thought that was ridiculous right it was ridiculous i think it's ridiculous why is that ridiculous walk me through how that's ridiculous how would you not why would you not do that if someone owes you in this particular case this guy owed this guy seven figures yeah if someone owes me ten grand i'm doing right okay it depends also if someone owes me if someone owes me one thousand i and they live with it an hour i'm showing depends if you know the person but it's i mean that's just like this that's like you know fuck that's like the thug move right is the doug move is stealing sure but i guess what i'm saying is like you're putting yourself in a pretty risky situation right so like what can happen there it's going to like you're putting yourself right at the line of escalation so what's gonna happen either something physical is gonna happen or you're gonna be threatening the other person and like i don't know it's just like you're trying to go to jail what you trying to do here i'm trying to get paid i'm trying to but more importantly i'm trying to if someone i don't care about contracts if someone shook my hand and we agreed on something and they don't follow through i'm gonna do everything necessary to to get them everything i i i would only ever break the law if like my temper got the best of me and i i i would regret it right but i think i would be or do a really good job of controlling my temper and be like look i'm not gonna hurt you i see what you're saying it's lights easy i know where you live though it's easy for that i want my buddy and you're just not making it easy for them to not pay you what you're owed you're showing yeah and you're reminding them i'm owed this money it just would you not do that reminds me of every you know gangster and every gangster movie that i've ever seen heads like it what i realistically do that now i'm a strongly worded email kinda guy i'm a phone call kinda guy i'm am not gonna show up at your house or i believe the suggestion was actually to send you guys to their house to remind them and so i think that that's where it's like alright this is some gangster shit i've i'm gonna don't wanna say inc i but like if i alright i've got a bunch of hypothetically oh let's say saint louis i grew up in saint louis i've got friends who are maybe they're they're kinda tough guys in saint louis and i would be like hey man can you just go knock on this guy's door for me like i'm not in saint louis and just can you collect that this cap don't do any don't hurt anyone but just like can you go and and grab that for me what why wouldn't you do that let's say you own like a flower bill and a bakery like took like you know tons of flour and you're like hey you haven't paid your ten thousand dollar bill you're not gonna go to that bakery and like demand no i would but it's i would go with just basically a like a legal threat be like okay cool you owe this money you don't pay this is gonna get collected on it's not gonna be collect on with physical like physically it's being like legally i never said i was gonna hurt anyone i never said already it's implied when you show at the door and you're like hey you owe me money and they're like nah i'm not paying you when do you do after that i i like i don't have it i'm bet alright i'll be back tomorrow and then and then if we i'll would i'm really i'm i'll i'll call tomorrow i mean i'll what do you what do you mean i'm gonna show up again like i'm just gonna annoy them to death but i like i well i guess my point is i firmly believe in crossing this threshold of internet than going ira race to face right one hundred percent i firm suddenly believe that i've done that before of like someone try not paint it i was like alright i'll just walk over to your office right like i it says right here where your dresses i'm just gonna walk over it and i'll ask your secretary like can you please grab this person they owe us money yeah i'm definitely a fan that in in other cases also like i i advise this a lot like a lot of our team will be like yeah we sent them a message i'm like yeah but you need to like like call them on the phone go talk to them you know like what i and it's not about collecting money this is just in general when they need to remind somebody of something or you need to basically break through the noise and get somebody attention now in terms of collecting money i don't out to teach each the own i you know behalf this podcast we do not officially endorse the physical collection oh i don't endorse i'm not endorsing breaking the law and i i i don't think i i actually i don't know what the laws i i i i i had this guy who owed us money and he goes fuck you i'm not paying you and that's what he said i was like look mark it says you have to pay me like you i did a service for you you're not paying right and he goes he goes have other bills to pay you're at the bottom if i get to it i get it if i don't i don't and i contacted a lawyer i go hey can i like tweet out this whole can i take a screenshot of this and tweet this out and like what what can i do to publicly shame this person right and they're like you you can't do that and i'm like what fuck not and that's when i learned that if you're a debt collector you can't there's rules as to who you can talk to interesting which is i got i understand why those rules are there right but i wanted to ruin this guy like to this day it was it was like two thousand dollars this happened six years ago to this day i know his name and i like i don't i i see him i would totally confront him he lives in oklahoma but if i saw him i would absolutely confront them it bothers me so much right yeah so much you know i think they they do this in and like therapy you're coaching it's like oh okay that's how you feel it's like you know they they sort of drill like so what value of yours do you feel this other person violated it's like i can tell you you're that that person where it's like integrity right it's like i'm out of my word if i tell you something that's how it is and if i feel like you've told me something and we've shook hands on it or wrote it down doesn't matter if you violated that it's like you know violating your core value there totally and it it actually hurts me every once in a while but i don't i don't do a lot of contracts a lot of times i'll just do stuff like me and you or me and someone else will come to an agreement i'm like alright let's do it and there's never anything signed and then eventually stuff does get signed right but i'll i'm like alright you said it i said it and often what i've learned now is to do that via e via because i think that i actually can't count as a contract but anyway this guy who me and sean are talking about he was owed two million dollars and i was like why don't you fly over to where he lives and get like that fucking money like it just like ruined this person and he was like oh no would ruin my reputation and i was like ruined they'll create a reputation as someone you don't like that's like someone who like holds are bond and like you don't fuck with that guy guy the funny thing is now that you shaved your head you look a little bit like the guy from breaking bad who you know built his reputation as as the enforce it said it's all just working right now it's great love it the image i just the image is built it just pile my mind that like our friends for all internet nerds i'm like you guys you gotta just show up and get it and so i'm curious what the listeners are are good think of this and and and just i had not once did i ever say i want anyone to break the law unless showing up as breaking the law which then yeah i did say that but i didn't say hurt anyone i didn't say threat like a landlord you go and you say hey the rents do hey the next thing yeah i still need that check i still don't need that rent check hey you got the rent check yet hey you got the wrench yeah i i'm i'm not saying harm anyone i'm against violence in most cases but it's like get get my money but you work out just in case alright let's let's cool it down with i have one random idea and we'll treat this as a cool down because this podcast is getting needed it so okay i had this idea which was based on my experience with my last company so with the last company we were building this tool that was really useful for a a live streamer for a video game was basically twitch is the biggest player but youtube is around on facebook cares about live game streaming that sort of thing and we hit a point where we were like you know this is probably not gonna be a huge business but this is definitely a useful tool it's solves a real problem and ultimately what we ended up doing was selling to to rich now i am surprised that companies don't do this proactively meaning why do companies do x prices for their company so if you don't know what the x prize is x prize is i think created by i think peter dia i don't know how he says his last name but where is this on the sheet show sean it's kind of at the middle bottom of her oh i see i see okay so okay so the xp prize basically is this foundation that was created by you know kind of a wealthy guy thinking about the future and i don't know which one the first one was but the first one that came to mind for me was there was a x prize for a private moon moon landing expedition and they basically said hey if you can get a they had all these rules if you can build a rocket that gets to this you know part of orbit and you know satisfies these requirements you'll win the x prize of thirty million dollars so they put a big bounty on top of it what at that end doing was you had ten teams or twenty teams each investing you know three million dollars to try to go get a thirty million dollar prize so they built a small team they were if they didn't have to go recruit these people or hire these people people just came out of the wood work say i think i could do this and they worked like day and night like it was their startup to make this happen and they wanted to win that thirty million dollar prize and just built something awesome and what ended up happening was that the prize they would put up twenty thirty million bucks but overall a hundred million dollars would get invested into the space but all the different players who are trying to achieve it so it's just like high leverage thing you know if you you want this outcome to take place you want a whole bunch of people in parallel trying different approaches and you only have to put up third of the total amount that gets invested and so why don't companies do this where they could say you know for example with twitch one of the things that twitch needed was a tool to to stream like stream gameplay live this is like not that easy to build it took us two years to build it to other companies spent two years building this as well and we were all competing now twitch is building their own it's taking them two years to do this and probably cost them ten million bucks to make it happen and why not just upfront say hey we'll give out ten million dollars to the team that could build the best live streaming tool that does a b c and d and you know you have a year awesome and then you have a guaranteed payout and so it's not like a startup where you're like oh i hope i win the lottery and i have to like raise round a b c and it's like no there's a fixed payout for a fixed thing that and any team can go apply to this so like for the hustle you guys could do this i don't know i don't know what yours would be i did this for software where i totally everyone wanna need better pay pay software that's an interesting idea so let's start with why wouldn't people do it or why why this is a bad it has to work for company and it has to work for the like you know participants so so i think it's a cool idea so ninety nine designs does this really well where it's a little similar i say i go i've just given ninety nine designs two thousand dollars i need a homepage design here's what i need all twenty of you designers start making them the best one gets my twenty or my two grand right and that works so well right i'm shocked to how well that works you use that a lot people all the time it's so good and i know that designers kinda don't like it because they're like oh what are the odds mind win i'm gonna do all this work for nothing but i think because i don't think they do that much work though a lot that they just reuse the same stuff right so i i think yes a it's a low stakes version of what i'm talking about i think you raise the stakes two things happen one is that people have to commit more time and energy you can't just reuse it like ninety nine percent so that's a downside people have to put more in but on the upside like the prizes there and you're not competing against you know hundred other designers it'll probably be like three teams fourteen teams five well let let let's talk about why that's just let's talk about why it's a stupid idea and why people wouldn't wanna do it maybe twitch would i don't know why companies often believe we can do a better so companies just believe well we can do we can do a better job of it ourselves right so there's let's say typically can diy syndrome yeah which is totally wrong but like you know that that's one case some companies wouldn't be interested because they think their their home cooking would be better there's another that is they don't want to sort of size you know what their needs and requirements are and where their gaps are that could be a thing you know i don't think that's the reason why this wouldn't happen i think there's a not non guarantee of quality so like a bad case scenario would be let's say twitch has come out and say hey ten million bucks for the live streaming app that's the best but the best wasn't that great and you gotta pay ten million bucks for that so it's kinda like a ninety nine designs if you put up your two grand and you're not really happy with you yeah so there's no guarantee just logistically it's very hard but what's interesting is is a service that aggregates all types of problems that different companies have so builders can address them that is quite interesting it's really cool yeah was like really you wanna tap into like the wisdom of the crowds in a way right so like another piece of this so a good example of this is actually what elon musk is doing with hyper loop so elon musk has published hit his like white paper which was like hey i think we can make super high speed transport right get from la to san francisco in forty minutes using this technology and the next step would be to like build a prototype and build a a test track of one mile right and instead of him building it or starting a company he just published it open down the internet and then three different teams i believe three different companies got funded with tens of millions of dollars to build a hyper off of this design and then he's like cool i'll be involved i'll show up at the test track competitions i think they got a bunch of university students to like do a little mini versions of these competitions for hyper and for him he's like great these this is a talent pipeline to hire from because either these guys actually do it which is amazing self problem solve or i just find awesome engineers and i get to see what they can do and then we hire them and they're kinda like in our orbit because they've been working on this thing i think this is great i think that this is almost like your import export list or whatever you're calling it yep i think it's this is a a a very fascinating concept which is you're trying to just meet you're trying to get the the there's no connection between what a company needs and them voicing their needs to people who can solve it and so for example maybe twitch so was like man i have us need and for all we know there's some startup out middle and nowhere who's doing something similar but not the same and they're like you know we actually could solve that we just slightly rep package our thing maybe that's the way we go so i'm gonna ask emmett super cool i'm asking emmett who's is ceo of i'm like hey how come we don't do something like this like let's walk through a scenario would we do something like this and i'm gonna see what he says he's a smart guy he might have a very credible reason that this is a really dumb idea but i just think that it works on two levels number one for startups ups it should not be this like all or nothing game where you're like it's gonna be zero and you you know you basically walk away or we need to like build a billion dollar business and that's why we get funding for for these things or i need to have the super profitable business and so this gives a sort of a a new asset class which is like hey if you can build something awesome that fits our spec then you get a guaranteed it's like pay big build on demand yeah it's better than a job payout but it's not you don't become a billionaire but you become a millionaire and it's like i think there's a lot of people who would rather do and then for the company it's like you get out of your own way because companies are so much beer and such a lack of innovation that it's like instead farm it out let five different innovative teams work all night and their little tiny two man three man four man office and i bet you're gonna get a better output than if we kind of assign a group of people in our company to do this for twelve to eighteen months and you know they work on it at ninety five and we get one crack at it and so i i think it's i don't i'm excited about it i love that idea i think that's great cool alright we can we can kinda wrap it up on that note we're gonna be back in a couple days with another episode anything you wanna we have a guy we have one eight hundred flowers so last friday or thursday this guy emailed me and i was actually kinda rude i wasn't rude to him but he had emailed me a question that i thought was obvious like how do i sign up for this thing and i just sent him this quick one off fast email and he replied like oh thank you i love your work and then i like looked at who it was and it was the founder of one eight hundred got flowers and so one hundred and we invited him on the podcast so when he comes i'll i'll apologize to him i i wasn't rude but i was just like it's on the website that's all i said right so won't have people yeah i no i don't even treat normal people that way typically usually prone to i was just angry because i was like i thought i had answered literally eighteen questions the the same question that day alright talk to you all soon okay cool see you