#68 - It's Time To Build, Founder Dating, MBA As A Service

alright we got a friend of the show here jordan harbinger he's one of the guys who's been advising us on how to build this podcast because his podcast is way more successful than ours has been around he's been doing podcasting for like twelve and half years which jordan that's gotta be as long as podcasting has existed right yeah i think pod podcast podcasts have been around for like fourteen years and i've or fifteen and i've been around for thirteen of those so yeah when i started there was no way there were no iphones so you couldn't get podcasts on your phone you had to use an ipod to play them yeah straight to cassette that's how that's how long these guy's been doing it so so jordan you know i like i like your show i've been binge binging it while in quarantine because you know what else am i gonna do besides i just try to learn something new or improve myself in some way and i gotta say like it because you do the you know the interview style show where you go deep with a guest i think you know you had i was listening to the one with tony hawk which is pretty awesome and i gotta say i like that you don't do the kind of surface level you know just just pit you know pity padding around with the questions or trying to do you know inspirational fluff where you're just saying go you can do this so with that episode with tony hawk what was that like tony hawk an icon how was it of you know interviewing tony hawk it was great he's a really interesting guy really open and fun and he told some pretty funny stories one which was very apr rapport what what's going on right now is one day he walked into his agent or some sort of marketing team that he'd hired he walked into their office this is like at the height of video games where he's making i don't know well fifty million bucks off these skating games and these brands and he goes in and he says look i got this backpack that was made pretty s and it's got my name and face on it i don't want any more stuff like that and as the agent marketer or whatever is sort of nodding his head understanding tony goes wait what's that on your shelf and it was a roll of toilet paper with tony hawk name face and logo on it and he goes what the hell is that and the guy goes oh yeah anything we put your name and face on does so well we were joking that we could put your face on toilet paper and we'd still be able to sell it and he fired them on the spot because it was clear that they didn't value his brand which i thought was a funny story and he's got a ton of stuff like that that he talked about on the show that is epic you know i actually met tony hawk we went on a trip to africa a charity trip together and believe it or not we were halfway up of a mountain in ethiopia where you know it's a like this a mountain village and somebody saw him there and they were like tony hawk you know that's one of the only english word they said to us all day they identified tony hawk on a in ethiopia that's how famous that guy is so that's an amazing guest to have on the show imagine being that famous that you get recognized in the middle of countries where like nobody speaks your language and they maybe don't even have skateboard yeah we were there trying to give people clean water they didn't even have water but then knew tony hawk that's how that's how famous i got amazing awesome well if you wanna hear more from jordan we're gonna be having him on more and more he's a friend of friend of the house and you should listen to the show it's one of the podcast podcasts that i would recommend if you liked tim ferris this stuff if you like our stuff you're gonna like his stuff and so go check out the jordan harbour show on itunes spotify wherever you get your podcast you'll find him there i think a lot of great companies are monarch either there is a king or a queen and that person's the boss what's up good people we are back sam how are you doing man what's up new mike new meanwhile outfit new room new room somebody wrote in the comment section they go i would give this five stars but sam's mike sounds even worse than before so until you fix it i'm not gonna give you five stars so it worked nice alright you're motivated cool we got a bunch of interesting stuff to do today to talk about today i feel like today hey you know sometimes we come in and there's one bullet in the chamber and you're hoping that that's the one that that fires out i feel like we got six bullets in the chamber today so i feel good and you wanna start with this article you just made me read yeah alright i just made sam reid the mark andre reason it's time to build blog post why because it was a bit polarizing some people were like hell yeah i'm inspired this is you know called to arms for the tech industry for entrepreneurs and then some people were like y just said a big it's not it's not for the nothing it's not for the tech industry i can't stand this stuff it's there is no tech the the i don't wanna use it we're tech to stream anymore there is no tech industry everything is the same everything is tagged or you're saying there is no check industry well what does tech what does tech industry you mean like the internet companies technology companies every company uses the internet every company uses technology i hate when people say it's the tech no it's not it's everyone i mean even the dumbest restaurant that's run by people who are a hundred years old that don't know anything about quote technology have a website i elaborate i like that you're coming in hot today i it alright so that's true yeah that's actually the most recent probably the the prior most famous blog some market put out was software is eating the world which is basically what you're saying which is that hey yeah it started where software was for software companies and for internet companies but every company is gonna use software every company is an internet company i don't care what industry you're in if you haven't already been you know transformed using software it will happen software eating the world so this is the most famous blog post i think since that what did you think when you read this were you a inspired b annoyed c other you wanna summarize the article for the readers first or listeners yeah you just read it so you do it okay so mark reese big time investor who's been quiet a lot lately but he's pretty much the best of the best and when it comes to venture capital it's a article called time to build web pretty viral i don't know when was launched three days or announced or released three years days days ago a few days ago and they basically just says corona might be some people's fault might not not be some people's fault it doesn't really matter or whose fault it is but the fact is is that we have to create stuff which we could have been prepared they're not prepared but we could have had we could have built things for example right now the what what is it called the ppp what's the loan oh ppp ppp loan program that's been a disaster i've gone through it so i tell for enhancement disaster it's been quite hard to distribute that money it's been quite hard to get vaccines it's been quite hard to get therapies for corona and what he is saying is yeah it's because we've all got gotten complacent and we haven't pushed aggressively pushed forward to make new stuff it doesn't matter what it is it could be skyscraper it could be games it doesn't matter what it is but he's just saying it's most it seems like he's mostly saying america has become soft and not innovate quickly it has not innovated quickly yeah he basically is like it's a failure for for us to take action so he's like you know why do okay yeah why don't we have ventilators why don't we have enough icu beds why don't we have the ability to pump out a vaccine faster okay even simpler than that why don't we have enough cotton swabs why don't we have enough gallons and and you know masks and ice feel why can't we get these faster like the you know hospitals are asking for poncho to be used because they're running out of medical gowns like poncho this is america this is twenty twenty how is this possible and then he goes on and he's like alright you know we we decided to give trillions of dollars to bail it out we can't even give it out we don't have the infrastructure to even give out the money you know why don't we have you know why are we sort of so complacent and why are we so slow to action why didn't we take action before this why can't we take action post this and it was sort like you know you're losing your edge so give an example like when hbo wants to produce westworld and they wanna portray like you know the american city of the future with like you know modern everything they don't go to seattle or la or new york they go to singapore and you know that's where that looks more like the future than america does and so they need to yeah you know education he goes through manufacturing infrastructure and so he just goes through each thing and his thing is like you know it's time to build we need to be building and rebuilding all of these things you know universities need to be rebuilt roads cars you know we need to we need to build and that's sort of the call to arms i have a strong opinion about this so you know this i'm a history buff i love i love reading about history it's it's my favorite thing to do and my favorite era is right as post civil war so like eighteen seventies to about nineteen twenty are you familiar with that era no okay so it's a really interesting era the civil war just happened and imagine oh i mean more people done civil war maybe than any other war america's never had i mean was it was brutal afterwards we're there they're like alright let's get to work let's do some cool stuff everyone was like almost stir crazy and so they create a lot of amazing things and this is where van built came from this is where john rockefeller came from this is work andrew carnegie came from and the reason all these great businesses k be is like i said people were hungry but also america wasn't number one i mean we were still growing we were we were trying to become the best at whatever we were trying to become and also there wasn't a lot of regulation and so this is why a lot of these guys who've seem what they're so rich i mean john rockefeller carnegie better jeff bezos were significantly richer and it was because they're up until rockefeller in the nineteen twenties anti monopoly there was no thing as monopoly laws there was no stock there's was very little stock regulate stock market regulation you could do anything and one of the reasons i think a lot got done is because a you could do anything which was pros and cons and b we it was kinda like cro capitalism but also we weren't number one and we wanted to be number one and that's why a lot of really interesting came things came from we were the underdog still and in my opinion china is kind of like america in about nineteen ten which is america had a lot the china isn't capitalism they're not communism but they're def they're cro capitalism that's kinda what america was a little bit in the nineteen ten nineteen hundred nineteen ten and anyway i think that what we need now is definitely far more like we ain't shit where the underdog we have to win almost when it all cost have a mentality and that's impossible i think for america to do like you know i think about it an now i went from doing startups for ten years to now i work in a two thousand person company and no matter the good intentions or even you know individuals who have rally cries like this it is like impossible to change you know such a big ship and that's a that's a two thousand person company imagine much sean i'm gonna take away your apartment from you you're now fired but that doesn't happen what i'm saying is you have to provide for your daughter what are gonna do yeah what i'm saying is it doesn't happen right so inside a big organization it doesn't happen america is just a giant organization right so you have all these different parties all these different constituents all of them are you know contributing to this one large institution called america the reality is that changing that to be to go back you can't like turn back the clock and go back to where regulation goes down urgency goes up yes i can make hundred dollar go up or sees up right now we just approved a trillion dollar bailout out and fuck but that's how big companies try to solve problems is by approving a a giant cash bailout that's not that's not doing what this is about right what this is about is sort of you know the call to arms on building innovating taking risks and holding everybody to that standard and if you're not doing that you need to either support that or you need to get out of the way right if you're you're the bill builders go build support or support the builders and if you're neither of those you need to get out of the way and i i just don't see that i don't see that's that happening i think that's like a a dream if we think that that's gonna just change that culture is just gonna change now when there's like you know three hundred million people have been operating some certain way their whole life and if least can change interest i think you can change it but i don't think it will but i think you can change it if i if sean got laid off in the bank that he he stored his money at went out of business and he lost all his money i have a feeling you're gonna get it urgent and you're gonna create something cool people will write it and people yeah that that's sort of thing can happen i guess guess what i'm saying is like even when you just look at the coronavirus response you see what china did you see what singapore did you do see what south korea did they were able to mobilize because they're actually run like a a startup right it's essentially you know like a dictatorship where they're like okay here's the new way we live if you're not on board with that sorry there's no debate here the we don't care i'm gonna weld you know in china they're literally like welding people's door shut you're not leaving the house oh you wanted to go over here temperature check on your forehead nope go home right like you were closing all of this down you know we're not gonna give you any warning or anything right like they they were able to call a response that frankly we don't have the muscle for nor the stomach to to endure work so here's how i think about it hard times create strong men strong men create good times and good times good yes good times create weak men so hard times create strong people strong people create good times good times create weak people and that's the cycle that's that's the cycle and so the way that i i personally suffer from this this as well so do you you make money or you have success and you get soft i like betting at all i love i love putting myself in situations to where the risk of failure is strong and i personally love that stuff and so yeah i think this just week you have to find ways to put yourself in a corner where you have to fight otherwise so i think individuals are gonna do that i think small organizations are gonna do that because they're gonna be led by people with strong wheels like this and with strong fatalities like this and then they're gonna be able to override you know if you're alone you're overriding nobody if you're in a small group you're overriding a small group of people then as it gets bigger to the big companies and then eventually to the country i don't think that realistically i don't think that that's what happens i think what happens is what you're talking about where hard hard times make strong people that's what's been happening in other parts of the world and they've just been getting sort of stronger and stronger and living in with a certain level of tough in a certain level of of non complacency and and so they will thrive during the hard times in ways that we will not that's sort of my my pessimistic view there's this great ad campaign that was from the nineteen sixties it was i thought it was her so i just look it up it was avi avi was the rental car company and they were clearly number two by like a lot like hertz was the the market leader and everyone knew that it's kinda like mcdonald's versus like taco bell something like everyone knows mcdonald's is more popular and hertz had this ad campaign called we try harder and and then they also had other parts of the campaign that says we know we're number two and that's good for you or and like they just like they like they said that they were number two and like this is why you we have to work extra hard to beat to do this and they ended up becoming number one in the market for a little while and the campaign was a huge hit and i think that's like the perfect explanation of what's going on which is like you have to act like your number two right they have to have that on under underdog mentality and and that's hard it's hard to create that fake i'm all dude i'm always referencing history here's another one ted turner did the same thing was he would always pick up enemy i mean these neither just like basic strategies for like war and leadership which is you you always have to act like you're the underdog right yeah you know this this actually happened in sports as well sports as some the other sort of greater metaphor for life and like in basketball the warriors had been dominant for the past five years they went to the finals five straight times and so the warriors were so damn good that most teams basically just sort of threw in the towel or were like you know they just sort of silently march to their slaughter and one team the houston rockets basically decided okay you know we have two options here we're either gonna also just walk to our slaughter or we can fight back and we will still probably lose but we have to sort of david and goliath this and so the general manager came out and he was like he said what everybody was thinking which is look by default the lawyers are gonna win this year and every year so we need to elevate our risk profile so we're gonna do some things we you know there because people they made a couple of trades that were like on paper kinda crazy and they're like yeah you know we just thought like with our current team we were very good but very good was gonna be for sure second place like there was no way we're gonna beat the warriors so now we're gonna go to this crazy strategy where we traded a whole bunch of players that got rid of all of our big guys we're only gonna shoot threes and hey if we get hot we can knock them out and it was like they wanted to give themselves a punch chance and they literally you know we're very open about it and it would get was very controversial and i think this happens in business too where if you're the clear number two not only do you have to try harder you need to elevate your risk profile and so how do you take greater chances given that by default you're gonna lose so if you're gonna lose anyways you have really nothing to lose besides you're to lose and therefore you should elevate your your risk and try to get into a more high volatility scenario where you may actually win so i love it i love these types of conversations and learning i i mean do you watch i guess you definitely watch the jordan stuff we're gonna have to talk well i don't wanna talk about it today but we're gonna have to because that's similar to a lot of this stuff for sure for sure alright let's pick pick another topic on this thing let's talk on deck no yeah on deck okay and then okay let's do on deck alright so do you know what on deck is yeah so it's beyond deck is that the website the handle on but yeah i think it's beyond deck dot com they went to y comb later they're so i have friends that work with them and they're confusing like their website i think is dumb but people like the product so it's a small critique so okay so let's explain what it is so okay so beyond deck was started by eric thorn eric thorn was one of the early employees at product hunt i think he employee number one and he helped ryan kinda build a community host events uses kinda jack all trades guy so product was such a big deal in the tech industry that erica got extremely well connected and so he started doing several things i would say he par his position which was like you know was a cool company but it wasn't this massive success it wasn't facebook or google like they exited i think for twenty million bucks to angel list which was like about the same valuation that they were that their investors had had invested in the at so it wasn't this like home run you know grand slam type of outcome it was definitely a a good product and but what eric did was he par laid his position is just like you know employee slash community builder at product hunt into like today he has a fund called village global which has like i don't know warren buffett and bill gates as lps and his fund it's like pretty insane and so he raised a giant fund he invest companies and then he started this thing called on deck which is one of several experiments he was doing now what on deck is is you're an employee at a tech company you're thinking about what's next for you you wanna go start a company so you're on deck for your next opportunity and what he did was it was like a set of meetups and an online like educational program so basically it's a bunch of meetups where you might meet your new cofounder or here ideas to you know help you get ideas for what's next or meet people that you're gonna work on work with your or sorry that'll be the founding team of your startup and then also they do like speaker series so you can like learn about stuff so it's kinda like a that's how i started in fact i hosted the first i don't know five on deck events at my office and so i literally was there from you know event one i think of the program and it was like okay this is kinda cool like this guy works at coinbase base today and he says he wants to leave and go start a company interesting what's he thinking about maybe that would be a good maybe he's looking for a technical cofounder founder and here's this engineer that wants to work with him so i kinda wrote it off as like i don't know it's like a meetup it's kinda yeah yeah like a founder dating type of thing that idea had been around before c cofounder dating i think was found found dating something like that yeah it was like okay whatever which i think is so stupid as well and then eric moved on and so i kind of wrote it off of my head then i saw this tweet recently that brought it back he goes beyond deck is gonna do a million dollars this year in revenue i was like what on day from what and he's like so we're doing a million dollars this year we think we're building the stanford nba program for founders and you know i think you know there's a pathway to ten million and a hundred million right okay so let's ignore that last part because that's the generic like founders can say whatever the fuck they want but let's look at the first part so million dollars where are they getting that for and they they now charge out about a thousand bucks to be in on deck so you're you're somebody who's trying to figure out what's next you pay a thousand bucks and you get into this network you get to go to these events and you get to maybe meet your future cofounder or hear a bunch of cool ideas that sounds great i should steal it up then so he's got a thousand people paying a thousand to thousand bucks a month to be a part of on decks like batches wait you're you said a thousand people at a thousand dollars a month not a month sorry thousand dollars a year i think it's like per i think it's not a like a yearly subscription i think it's more like a batch like you're you're like in a on deck it's a program like less cohort yeah you're like a cohort so anyways thousand people a thousand bucks month okay or sorry thousand bucks of cohort million dollars a year alright not bad so why is it the stanford nba so this is where i started to look at it differently so why do a lot of people go to business school a lot of people go to business first very few people go to business school for the education you know if you wanted to learn about a p and l and like a cash flow statement and how to do a discounted cash flow like you know analysis you could do you could just go on khan academy and find that in ten minutes and be done with it people go to business school because they're looking to pivot their career they have a job that's good they go to business school because they don't know what they wanna do next and business schools like this mixing pot where you just go you meet a bunch other people you have a year to figure shit out and nobody's judging you you're not like an unemployed bum sitting at home it's like no no i'm going to stanford stanford for like for business school or whatever and so people use it as a as a career pivot to figure out what's next for that what he's done is he's basically just built he's un unlabeled that part of business school and just built that as a service and i think that's actually really fucking smart so now i'm looking at on deck like oh he's un one of the core values of business school and he's offering it as a service for one tenth of the price of business school or one twentieth of the price of business school so now thinking on deck is to go what do you think okay so to summarize to sum it up it's just a network right it's a network of other people who are also looking to start companies okay for sure that can be a a good business i mean that's just vista that's just y pao so for sure that's a that's a that business could be large what do i think of it i i'm i'm mixed i if they stay like this like niche thing like only for like startup up entrepreneurs i'm not i don't know cannot that be big enough like is that b funded big enough you know it's it's hard to say right because a lot of these things that are catering you know when people started making developer tools it's like okay how big is that then that turned out to be really massive because it turns out there's a lot of devs and they all make my money and they could pay for things and then on the other side you have like angel list which is essentially angel list is linkedin for the startup community and angel list is now like a multi billion dollar company well but that's not how angel doesn't make angel doesn't make money from job or linkedin makes money because they have two hundred million people who use it and then they make money from job placements they make money from software via their or subscriptions via their yes i commercial from advertise recruiters basically and angel list is amazing for jobs they don't charge for it currently or they have a list which they charge for just a small it's like a that's their first attempt at charging for it but angel is already i think placing more startup jobs than any other network that's focused on startup up jobs angel job platform is amazing i only if i hire i only hire off angeles angel jobs am i being a hate could this be big i so here's why i don't think it's gonna be big so the the reason why i don't think that they would be big is that starting a company is not capturing the start up community it's capturing the founder community for every company you have you know hundreds of employees but you only have one to two founders and so they're capturing just the sort of two percent of the startup of community which is two percent of the overall job markets so yeah that's small that's that's why that's small now they're they're revenue could come not from just people pending for the cohort it could come from other things they could be investing in this and this could be like a it's like a pre y seat right because you're actually finding the startups before they've even formed and so you could get first did you can get very cheap options on on starter to come out of this that's dependent on how that's dependent on how good of talent do and do but do you know these things like founder like these ways where people like i'm looking for someone to start something with in general i think that is a horrible idea just you know match making and starting our company with somebody yeah that's stupid and so i think if someone's like yeah i wanna meet other people to start a company with i think that in general and i i never i i rarely try to say like it's always bad because there's stuff it could in general i think that is incredibly stupid i i actually agree that i i agree with you on hundred percent i think so suboptimal yes it's not it it only works if it's like an indian marriage where it's like alright fine we are being assigned we're in there is no out yeah if if that is the case then yes i think i think that in some like did are your parents were the parents were arranged yes and i think that a lot i don't know i'm just you would obviously no way more than i do but i think that if you arrange marriages i think could be i bet a lot of them could be very happy yeah the success rate is pretty much on par with the american marriage success rate which is both poor like both of them fifty percent divorce rate or whatever and it's also weird because you can't measure marital happiness any anyway if you only measure divorced and any people don't wanna get divorced because of cultural taboo so their divorce rate is lower they're more willing they're more willing to stay in an unhappy marriage than an american yeah and i don't know no how like whole culture like regards like abuse and like if you should leave or should not leave like it's a whole sticky thing that i'm gonna get into but my point is that when you don't have an option then yeah it would if if it's like alright we're in this together no matter what then that is interesting but for if you're going to this thing like oh i'm gonna meet another person to start a company with i think that is stupid yes i don't support that at all so so better ways is to start your company take people you've already worked with or at the company you're at right now like find the star person in your company and spin out with them or you know just start working on it alone but talk about what you're doing and great people would come to you and you know fill them and if anybody really is at that level go ahead and make them a c founder or find somebody who you believe is sort of like a a domain expert or you think could be that person and then date them for a while so don't start a company with them right away just start talking them a talking them very frequently and maybe work on some side projects together before you go all the way and yeah that's why i was thought that white comb was weird i mean i it's great but if they do something like where they're like you meet someone and like this isn't working and just pick a new idea i know only have three months i'm like fuck that it's a weird find your cofounder for the hustle so okay so my story was i moved here from san francisco or sorry from nashville i founder dating no not a chance i rented an air airbnb at and it was the cheapest one of the city and it was john h and i was currently i was came out to start something and i would he would just be up at night like talking to people who it because he had this idea that he was working on and eventually go hey john can i just say work with you on free time like i'm here i'm gonna go get an apartment full time but like you just wanna like you r on this so we did so after two or three months he was like alright you're now my partner in this business and then i left or we did it and we had an exit and then i went start the hustle and i started working on it by myself for a year or something and i go john you wanna come and join this with me so it was serendipity right but by by the by the time you started the hustle you'd already worked with the guy before for years you sort of knew what you were getting into and for better for worse right but like you you weren't just matching at a at a meetup and saying hey you wanna you know do one of the most intense experiences over our lives together you know you you actually need the guy for for the record my next company if i ever started another company if who knows if it's less forever if we sell it okay but i i won't have a c cofounder next time okay i'll either do one of these things if i have a c founder then they will be the majority owner and i'll be a silent partner and i won't work on it that much but i'll fund it or be like an idea guy or i'm not gonna have a partner and i'm just gonna pay everyone's salary and i'm just gonna own it all and why is that so a lot of people are we'll say the opposite right why he won't you know historically doesn't take even solo founders so why would you wanna do so do it solo some people say that's hard some people say it's lonely you know why would you do it next time because i i either want one of two things i either wanna so for first of all i wanna own everything i'm greedy like that i wanna own all of it because i'm very competent in my capabilities and i think whatever i start working on it's gonna be very valuable i wanna either own all of it or as much as possible i don't wanna split anything now if like i'll i'll i'll give equity to people but i don't want it to be fifty fifty and so if i'm gonna build something and i'm passionate about it i also want it to be my way you know i think that this is controversial i think a lot of great companies are monarchy they're not dictatorship but they're definitely not democracies they are a monarchy there is a king or a queen and that person's the boss and they can delegate but ultimately it's a monarchy i wanna be the k i want it to be exactly my way or and i've done this before and i like this is i still own a lot of it and i put up the risk by paying for it but i have an operator in place and i'm and i'm really hands off and i delegate and i let that person's they i'll let that person exit execute on how i want them execute my vision right yeah i i do think that's the right fit for you i think that's your personality and i think that you'll probably win more that way and some people are good at collaborating but i also think that what we were talking about with china and america is it's not unfortunately unfortunately most of the time cool things that happen fast it comes because one person is dictating what everyone needs to do right so like me with my cofounder founder last like for for be who was your c cofounder for bib well fe became my cofounder essentially so i i initially recruited him hired him but over time you know within that first year i promoted him up to cto we spun off the company where the other cto was and i was like look you run this other company we have this guy's now this is my cto it a fifty fifty split no was a fifty split exactly but but actually when we sold i made sure that he got exactly what i got so okay so i can i can deal with that i even it out later which was cool because i had the option right but he had done so much i didn't feel right taking more than his share i think that's the way to go which is like you are the boss but then when it all comes down to it you you select the winning but i guess what i would say is the i i i agree with you that you want it to be where you could be pretty ruthless and you can be very you know dogma and how things are gonna go but i was lucky enough to find somebody who is also that way and so we were so aligned and we were so similar in our personality on those in that way that it was like oh great like we both think of this the same way we so it's like a a two x multiplier it's like both of us are saying this to everybody in the company and so it was even louder message and then i got the benefit of like hey now i can start companies that are deep technology companies because that's where this guy is super strong and on his side he's like hey i can you know build a bigger organization because this guy knows how to run an organization i can do something that needs sales this guy knows how to do sales and so if yeah tomorrow was like y let's do amazing if he was like y you wanna do this i'm like alright let's do it and if i did the same great we could also do things independently but like i told him i was you know we need to be in business together for the next twenty years we need to be working together investing together partnering up on different stuff like it's rare to find somebody like this you gotta take advantage when you have it i think that's the way to go i also think though if you're gonna do if you have that person there has to be a boss and so there are like if i were to start like if i had a for con like deal which i do and adam i say alright i'm the i'm the owner or and i'm okay with this is you are doing yeah you're the owner and i'll do what you say but like in that case i i will say here's what i think is best and if they and they say what they think is best i'll i'll just fucking go ahead and do what they want i i'll i'll and i think that is needed yeah i i i think c founders founder is very different than c ceo c ceo i personally believe and i have some friends have done it they say good things but i'm not that way but that's not how a lot of people start companies they start companies would like art we are we make decisions together yeah it's like no no no the you someone's gotta no who's you gotta have a boss and there's one guy and they make the decisions and they consult with people but at the end of the day they they call the shots and i'm fine being the number two right and i'm fine being the number one okay cool so alright let's move on so on deck we think it's moderately interesting i'm impressed they got this far i guess my last word would be eric's not running it he has another guy running it i don't know who that guy is i i man him up i think eric i like eric i think he's a nice guy i think he's poorly what he what he had into much more and i give him mad props for that but at the same time like he's had five good ideas but try to execute on all five and put operators in place for each one and i think there's like you don't skip to level ten you don't just get to be black belt right away and you gotta sort of earn your operational excellence like go build one of these ideas into something massive first and then like start trying to be you know somebody with a portfolio of things who's you know putting operators in place and sort of like i don't know i just feel like on debt could be great i would feel much better about it if eric was like eric who started it was like this is my thing i'm gonna make this a success i'm gonna work on this like a man but i think he's just starting a bunch of things that all sound good and then i don't know where the follow through is that's what that might actually i completely agree with you and that's a great thing that we can bring up for the listeners which is i get pitched on on a fairly basis to invest in stuff and me and you and and both invested into our good friend and the first question we asked him was is this your full time job right because he's the same way right he he has lots of good cool things he spins him up and then he spins up another thing and another thing and they all sound good but like where's like for any of these to achieve that a big vision the follow through has to be so fucking strong right and if someone says like oh no it's like part time or i'll go full time eventually i'm like alright just i'm out you'd let me know if have your full time so i think that if people do wanna start stuff like you can't you it's not some people do it like there are people who have pulled this off rarely though you have to be all in and if you're like doing it part time i think you're a punk yeah and maybe i'm projecting because i've made this mistake before but because i've made the mistake i kinda know the mistake and so that's where i'm like oh you know trying to juggle or trying to just be like yeah i i had this idea i started it i'm the chairman that's always the code word when it's like that works sometimes it's but not all the time you're a chairman of a five person company which means nothing it means you have a lot of equity and you're not doing jack shit so so it's like oh i'm the chairman and this guy is the ceo was like who's that guy and like why don't you if this is so good why don't you believe in it enough to and your time on it like there are people who pull it off they're more the exception than the rule and i think those people have put in their time of being the man act building their company before and have done so much operations that they know how to actually delegate and and hire good people to be their operators but if you've never done the operations yourself in any company and built it up and like been that made me act to like to have a big win can you really do this i don't know i i i sort of have doubts no i agree let's talk about club pass do you know club yeah i i used to be on friday and saturday it's it's okay so let's explain so alright so this last week or so at least that's when it came into my world maybe it's been going on longer than that but last week or so it seems like everybody with a pulse in silicon valley started using this app called club house at the same time what is club house you go look in the app store okay you're not gonna find it right so club mouse is only in beta it's a it's like test flight only so you can only get it if you join the test flight which get a link from a friend yeah you gotta get a link you gotta have the special apple app that lets you test things that are not on the app store yet that sort of so what is club out so basically it's like a it's like audio channel like let's actually open it up real quick and dude i just got i literally asked them we're talking just gotta text my friend and he goes hey were you in club house last night right no i wasn't and but that's hilarious that that's what was happening okay so like there's a room okay so the heavy hit are not on right now but last night you know reid hoffman has joined club house like the founder of lake linkedin the you know the top people from cora the founders of you know dave mo from path and naval ball from angel we just said mark zuckerberg was on it yeah i don't know if that's real z or not i sort of doubt it but you know jaden smith i saw was on it of jared let on it so basically there's a bunch of i don't even wanna call them big names because that's an insult to like athletes and celebrities and musicians but like you know in our do world of tech twitter there's big names on this thing and what it is is like a chat room where you go on and you can be either on mic where you're you're one of the five people talking or you can be in the audience and you're just listening and just nothing to do you just sit there it's kinda cool you get to be fly on the wall this is very similar to a product i built called blu so i was having flashbacks like crazy the whole time and it was started by this guy who created an app called highlight did you ever play a highlight back in the years ago so highlight was so one time twitter took so twitter took off at south by southwest the big conference in austin that's where twitter really escaped velocity out of silicon valley to like the mainstream and everybody was using it and then the next year four square or know maybe have those flipped but one year fours square was the big hit of south by southwest everybody's checking into places and fours square was the shit so then every social i was like y what's our south by southwest strategy we gotta launch at south by that's what twitter did that's what fore spirited did and so then highlight comes out and highlight was like this networking app where you could see people around you it was location based and so you see them you see their profile and then you can sorta of like give them my high five or whatever they're like six say hi it was like tinder for professional kinda was just same people around you didn't it was big at south bike because everybody was in one place and then when went home nobody used highlight anymore so it started by the guy who did that and it's solved did highlight itself i think well it it definitely was for a lot of busted yeah it it was not like it didn't work so anyways this guy's is back he's got the team club house and is popping off right now and so on one hand you know the inner hate in me we went in and was like this is nothing this sucks also i see all these reasons why this thing's is gonna fail but then you know at the same time i'm like you know you get zero points for predicting a new social app alcohol fail because they're all gonna fail it's like saying it's you know it's not gonna be a tsunami today it's like wow what a great prediction and so so you know predicting it's gonna fail really wasn't cool and so then went with the other i like what what is cool about this so i was on it one night and neville who's the founder of evangelist and probably one of the few people i don't wanna say i look up but i've learned a lock from right so he has his you know tons of books out there his book venture hacks is amazing if anyone wants to raise money it's like a founder bible for how to not get screwed by vcs when you raise money hacks and so then he then he started which i think is a bad company and then you know he's had his podcast and a sort of he's turned to like a buddhist philosopher of tech recently so anyways this guy is awesome i've learned a lot from him and he was sitting up there and like neville is so like in demand in tech that you you know you could email him and you're it's like nearly impossible to get a meeting with this guy i said hey naval can i get an hour of your time to just talk to you can you know you wanna get a coffee like you know he couldn't type fuck you and caps lock enough to like not do that but on club he was just sitting there and he was like begging people to come talk him he was like yeah he wants to chat right he was talking to the guy who started path that guy had to go he's like who wants to talk and so i just jumped in i was like you know click the button now i'm in the hot seat and he's like okay oh you you talk to him yeah he's like sean like what's up what's your question i was like i don't have a question you know because you know i could tell it it started to turn into the naval celebrity hour where people would come on even like other super successful millionaires in silicon valley we're coming on to be like hey naval vol you know longtime fan just wanted to ask what's your opinion on bitcoin or like you know stupid questions like that so i tried not to that but anyways i ended up shooting the shit in the vault for like you know forty five minutes and it was awesome and so i was like okay i got my value out of club house this thing's gonna go to shit eventually but for now okay well first our second i'm gonna comment on your experience but first i'm gonna say my opinion which is neat little thing it's fucking stupid no one it no one should invest money in this it's not a business it's a really cool gadget it's gonna be gone in three months alright and i hate saying that because like i said i don't like being haters i like i want everyone to win i think this is this is a cool it's like fucking wikipedia it's a cool gadget horrible business it's like like hq like it was a fun app awesome service purpose it's it'll be dead and the there's honestly there's been i'm not just saying this because we built lab which was extremely similar but there's been like five other apps that were exactly this the differences is they didn't have the personal networks to get every vc and founder in silicon valley on the app at once and and also beta he just off fuck about every i seat founder and silicon can valley fuck those guys i don't give a shit about those people i want some nerd what who a lot of people in missouri or i want or i want like some like good looking kid who's seventeen and wears vans and cool hoodies to use it and i want them to like like dance in front of their friends that's as a founder i what you want yes as a founder that's what you want as a user i don't think you would care if a nerd in missouri using it you wouldn't care to tune in right so again i would dude i use technical all the time all these eighteen olds are like so freaking good looking in to dance and are all fa like i love that shit they're awesome i love watching of these kids on take tiktok that's cool when it's just audio and it's just somebody talking it's way less interesting when it's just a random person talking about a random thing so so i think yeah you know if it's tiktok and they've curated the one amazing video by an average person that's what take tiktok is right like the feed is taking millions of videos and saying okay what is the point o one percent of these that are entertaining cool we'll put these on a feed for you when it's club house and you just open it up and it's like oh who's talking right now let me just take my chances you know you're you're it's not gonna be interesting so so i i just i just texted lance and i asked them if you wanted to do a a talk on there with me so i i wanna take advantage of this tic tiktok or what let's club house like let's see if it that work yeah exactly he you might not be able to get like now they have a link well they gated it now so now if you try to get in i think you have like fill out of form and they're not taking any more people in the beta or something like that i don't know but whatever anyways i think it's interesting and yeah i had a i had a fun fun chat my opinion is that's my opinion some this the analysis that people come here for before yeah that's but alec just made fun of me because i said i love these good look kids i mean like cute not like like hot like yeah that's what like they got like they got fucking cool haircuts and they wear bright hoodies they're just like cool like good kids like that rapid cali like since when did every kid get a high top like a like a like a up uptown fade and wear like vans like they're all just cool looking that's what i'm talking about this was cool cut you before before you get arrested okay let's talk about oat dude i've been drinking an oat and at leaves the shit do you drink oat you know that stuff spikes your blood sugar just as much as normal milk in like a can soda yeah okay i don't know i don't really care about that as much but i don't normally drink milk but i do drink totally now and it's delicious and fuck milk in comparison why would anybody drink milk when this stuff exists it's way better better tasting it's better for you it's better for the environment so it's better in all in regards it's okay do you have you had it have you drank it have you have some cereal with yeah dude it just tastes like almond and milk i mean yeah it's fine enough it it's fine it's amazing and also doing people have spoken because oat is like spiking through the roof so they were went from so the story but the back is pretty great do you know their company story no but i we covered it in trends like three months ago were like oat milk is gonna just go through the roof and you're you're totally right i think you know it probably has already been for the last few years so so i looked at better stories it's pretty nuts so it was started by the suite as a swedish company so i started by the sweetest like chemist basically like food scientist and it started like twenty years ago and it it looked like you should just google like the original packaging it looks like shit like it looks not cool and nobody really drank it it was this like total fringe thing but this guy was a believers to the company stayed alive for a while and then in two thousand and fourteen i wanna say maybe two thousand six it's either two thousand six two fourteen this guy becomes ceo of the company younger guy i good looking to dude it looks like he's you know done some of these turnaround before and he's like okay we need to re brand this thing and so he hires you know a bunch of creative and they re rebranded it so the first thing they did is they changed the packaging so it's in english not in swedish and then they made it look like kind of like all the d brands type of thing so like nice colors nice little packaging you know funny copy on the packaging that sort of thing and at starts to sell like it hits twenty million in sales and then it i hit a hundred million in sales now it's over two hundred million in sales because literally they cannot produce enough ot for the demand there's actually black market ot because they ran out to the point where barista does like individual consumers don't need to go pay more for it but barista was like look this herb our business when we can't offer ot as the creamer and so there's a whole like black market where barista have to pay this up charge right now to get out for their coffee shops because people demand it and there's just not enough out there okay so it takes dominated it it tastes great i think but i'm an almond milk guy it tastes great i i i i think that i i was reading some work on it and they're saying some person was testing their glucose their blood glucose and they're like it spikes super high without versus almond milk so that's why the to me it's to me it's like it i have to do more research before i make my final decision for myself but it's almost like it's the beyond burger of milk which is like it's supposed to look healthy but in reality it's like kinda bullshit well i don't think they're saying it's healthy there it's healthy in two regards one is you know there's a huge percentage of people that are lactose intolerant and so they need to be drinking alternative milk right now one in ten people drink alternative milk versus real milk and then of those of the ten percent that drink alternative milk again only ten percent or less are drinking oat milk the drink can soy or almond milk my understanding is that oh it is better for you than the soy or almond milk might be wrong so you know correct if wrong but point is all these alt milk are gonna continue to grow like crazy oat is the best of the oat milk and the sales back it up and then if you if you have time watch the talk of the creative director this guy named john just search john oat and then you know search out in youtube and he gives a talk at this conference called slash and he tells the story of rebranding oat and all the different crazy stuff they did to branded it and how they were trying to market it and then the milk industry which is like you know you think the gun industry in america is bad check out the dairy industry in sweden like these guys are you know ruthless and they're powerful and so he's like they went on this campaign against the dairy industry and and it just every time the dairy industry tried to crush them or hurt them in any way they just made a big fuss about it they would take out full page ads saying you know what the dairy industry is trying to do to them and it just made them more popular and there's got more and more and more popular over time and now they're just sort of literally can't keep up with the demand so i think ot is kind of amazing like if if i could invest in oat i would and i tried to actually message them and they were like hey we're not currently taking investors and i was like okay we'll just you know take my money somehow please i need to be involved in company i believe in this company you know who did something similar with rx expires so r expires it's a company that bootstrap and sold for six or seven hundred million dollars to pro and gamble or one of the big consume cp g companies i forget unilever lever and anyway they had their bars and kellogg they had their bars and it's fine i mean it's a fine product i i don't it's not a revolutionary product just it it it just has dates instead of sugar and it's just a granola bar with no i mean whatever and anyway they were selling it and then they go no this packaging sucks so let's let's like we need to try something and so they changed their packaging just say it only had the ingredients and they the stick is that it it was just like three dates four eggs like eight knots right like that's it and that's their packaging and that's it amazing and the founder said that once the packaging changed to that it took off which is proof just about how important all this shit is about i would say distribution versus product distribution is more important than product yeah yeah yeah yeah wrapping of the product was more important than what was inside the wrapper in their case yeah and it's like a good thing but it's not any different than ten other things right alright you wanna talk about one more yeah pick one let's do i don't wanna talk about look yeah what's that what's one fast fast grants fast grants dot org okay cool this is not the sexiest idea but i think it's very cool and good for the world so i i think the founder of stripe is the one who created this so john call call that so they created this thing called fast grants dot org and i'm just gonna read off the the website because they explain it in very simple terms so basically the idea is that science funding is a very slow moving process so you have to apply for grants that takes a long time i worked in a science lab in college and you know the scientist who should have been doing the experiments and analyzing them and said spent ninety eight percent of his time writing grant papers just to keep the lab alive and so grant you know grant funding is super slow and so they were like alright you know why can't we make this more like yc you know where yc is like fill up this application do a ten minute interview in person and then we will give you a check so fast grant is basically a ten to five hundred thousand dollar decision made in under forty eight hours if you approve the grant if if if if the grant has approved you receive the payment as quickly as as can be wired your now and so they have you know the calls and brothers behind it they have paul graham re hoffman kris osaka elon musk you know i'll couple bunch different from people so they have they've committed over fifteen million already in fast grants i'm looking at it one just they're just trying to make science better and i think this is amazing for the world i think this is like the type of thing that rich people should do you know when you do hit the tech lottery i think this is an amazing way to sort of pay forward in a way that's not just charity and you know fixing a pretty broken system which is the sort of scientific grant system oh you're friend eric at beyond deck to apply he's an academic institution at this point right but i feel like the the school sam par shop prairie is it session every tuesday and thursday maybe we should apply well that's what i was talking all about actually well was yeah here's what i wanna do i wanna fix education here's i'm thinking about it you know what do you think and and that's what we kinda shot the shit on for thirty minutes in ten minutes was me explaining this one really degenerate crypto trade i'm doing right now which is what that's what i care about sean it's like you had me at degenerate he's like you're insane and i was like yeah well you know i think not doing he's like no i think you're insane i was like okay very much rec basically fe showed me this awesome thing and okay this is how it starts and i was like oh yeah this makes sense to him me okay so so here's what i'm here's what we're doing right now so he started showing me the world of d defy do even know it d defy as fact bet you don't even know what d defy is no so just for listeners i think people don't understand how basic i am and i think you understand that but i'm pretty basic is fuck yeah and i actually think i don't even know it right and as i start to explain it somebody who understands def defy and be like with this mu trying to explain something he doesn't understand but that's why i am i learned twenty percent of things and i'm like oh this is interesting i'm gonna start learning about it using it and i'm talking about it before i like that's how i learned it so anyways he started telling me about d and i was like what is that so d defy is decentralized finance so basically thing what happened is here's how crypto come along right bitcoin comes out people like this shit's gonna change the world bitcoin goes on this crazy price roller coaster and then some people are like oh my god cryptocurrency of course genius we this is all open source code for blockchain okay copy paste litecoin coin copy paste do coin and they started just spinning up other random currencies and so then all these well the alt coins existed now one guy who was pretty legit this guy of metallic was like okay i'm gonna i i like this big bitcoin thing but he created ethereum and and and for the listeners go and google this guy if there's any person who i trust to create a great concern currency it's someone who looks like him i used to say what with this whole bitcoin ipo thing was going on it was all these bros with abs been ferraris i'm like if you have a six pack and or a fancy car you should not be doing you're fucking out i do not trust you your app you have to have huge ears that stick out bags on your eyes and it's super skinny neck if otherwise is not connected to your chest here i do not trust your your ana that it takes to build a great crypto ecosystem totally like yeah they're like if do bed your body weight if yeah i'm out so like they're i'm just not interested that so i am the exact same way i saw metallic and i literally judge the book by its cover i was like i think this is the next mark zuckerberg i'm gonna buy ethereum yeah okay that worked so ethereum you know ran up in price like crazy it ethereum did the first ico which was an ipo for for a currency and so or ipo up for a digital asset and so they you know it was priced and i think seventeen dollars today if they're and anybody could have invested in that and today if ethereum in trades for you know a hundred eighty dollars it's gone up as high as a thousand dollars and so you know the best investment of the last decade was just buying bitcoin early on the second best i think was ethereum and of all tech or startup up investments that would have been the best thing and anybody could have done it at any given time for the first you know few years of their existence so and anyhow so ethereum is like a platform right i program with the idea with the ethereum is hey we're like bitcoin is a great bitcoin like digital gold fantastic you should just buy it and hold it it's a store of value it's not gonna inflate that's the rules a bitcoin it cannot be manipulated by governments or you can't just print a new trillion bitcoin like they just printed the new you know six trillion dollars so that's bitcoin ethereum was like hey money should be programmable why can't we make a contract a smart contract that says you know when i send you this file unlock the you know you put the money in escrow you know you you wire your ethereum here when i send you this file and you click validate then you know i i don't unlocks the money and we don't need the all these middle men to do transactions so why can't we do smart contracts why can't we you know mince new coins all that sort of thing anyways fast forward to d defy the crypto wave has crashed right bitcoin went up to twenty k now it's down to six k and a lot of the spec and a lot of the hype is gone like there was a period of time where you could turn on cnbc and then a permanent bitcoin price above the whole stock market ticker was a giant bitcoin price twenty four seven like that's how kind of mainstream it went and now i would say you know fucking katy perry was taken instagram pictures talk about floyd me whether it was like hey i love you know blah black coin you know it's hot get in and you know so so that was the way that crashed and so all that's left is the true believers who weren't in it for the money anyways and the total degenerate gambler and the and who are like too deep in the hole to get out which i love i wanna get around those people well those people have done over the last few years is kind of amazing so they rebuilt all of the financial infrastructure of of the real world in this crypto world in the digital asset world so for example there's exchanges okay just like the stock market exchange but they're open twenty four seven and you know they don't close close for the weekend type of thing then there's lending platforms then there's you know stable coins which were are are always peg to the one dollar so you can use them as a as a intermediate currency and not worry about volatility so people have just built layers of prediction markets everything you have in the traditional financial infrastructure has been rebuilt through what they call defy now it's definitely not perfect in fact just two days ago one of them got hacked because again they're not a centralized org they can't just like stop things they can't like reverse things no it's what's your trade alright so the trade is this i believe in ethereum and i wanna buy and hold it which i've been doing for years and so i have this ethereum but i also wanna invest let's say in my tech startups and okay so let's i wanted more cash so if i went to a bank and i said hey sam's got this startup can you lend me some money bank so i can invest in the startup the bank would be like what the fuck are you talking about we don't lend money for you to invest in a startup and so instead what i can do here is i can go to this website called compound dot finance and you go to compound finance what you can do is you can put up ethereum as collateral so i put in let's say ten thousand dollars of ethereum or a hundred thousand dollars of ethereum and then i can borrow up to seventy five percent of that in another currency like for example die or usd dc which is coinbase based is stable coin so so basically you put in let's call it a hundred dollars you can borrow seventy five dollars of that on there at a very low rate so like you know when fe was first showing me this the rate was like point four percent so it's like you know basically zero interest do you have to pay on this thing it's like such a low interest rate now i think it's like three and a half four percent but but basically you could basically you could borrow this stable point very cheap you could trade that out for us dollars and you could put that into startup or you put that into the stock market you put in for whatever you want so his take was like look if you're gonna invest in the startup up anyways and you're gonna invest in ethereum them anyways you could kind of leverage your ethereum to get the money to invest in these startups and you could keep your cash to do things like buy house or do whatever else you want like in the traditional financial ecosystem and so that's the trade i started making was i started buying ethereum putting it up on compound finance borrowing against it in a cryptocurrency called usd dc which is coinbase basis stable coin and then i sold the stable coin for us dollars and i put the us dollars into startups i think this is just a horrible idea so involves was like wait a minute hold let me get this straight so you are betting you're taking a which is a highly volatile asset and you're staking it and then you're borrowing a currency and you're putting it into startups this highly ill liquid asset like whoa that's crazy and i was like yeah it's a little bit crazy but you know here's the reality of it this is like i'm not betting my retirement account on this this is you know like on a amount of play money for me that like is not gonna i i could it could all go to zero the i expect the startup up to go to zero if ethereum could go to zero like i wouldn't be in any my life would not change if this all went to zero but both of them i believe in long term i believe in started long term and i believe in ethereum long term and if i would've have otherwise invested in both of these anyways then this is a a slightly risk way to do it but it frees up more cash rate to do other things so that's my take on it i don't even know where to begin on that what don't you like about it let's talk about it i'd rather just put my money in marriott like i just don't understand why i okay so i think that to me it's like what you just did is the reason why i buy gadgets it would be far easier just to have a normal light but i wanna try all these new lights because it's exciting for me to try new stuff if that's your reasoning for why you did it then okay cool so but if you're doing this to to make money i think it's just stupid it's not to make money per s it's to do two things so this is kinda of what i i told him and he was like oh okay that makes sense he goes oh if you're not risking like you know substantial part of your network on this okay that makes sense and b he goes i think it's great that you're playing with d defy because i think this is sort of the most untold story in technology today is what's going on in the world of defy and then he goes you know the other the thing i always tell people and it this seems like what you're doing is look you need to go learn it like people ask me oh what book do you recommend and and he's like dude you should just go pick up the book and go read a few chapters of and see what you think about right the same thing with all these different oh no code tools or cryptocurrency like the way to learn is to go put some skin in the game try to ask so use the tools that'll teach you about their shortcomings that'll teach you what's cool about it watch a whole bunch of videos lose a little bit of money make a little bit of money and you know the actual learning of being on the forefront of technology will pay itself off multiple and i and he's like it sounds to me actually that that's what you're doing is you're trying to live on the edge of technology so that you actually are you know learning at a faster rate than somebody who's sitting on the sidelines and we'll we'll wait to hear you're toll and i was i'm with that which is you're doing this for fun i'm not doing exactly fun i'm doing it to learn and also i from what i understand right now like these are not just learning and like what about people doing learning you know you go buy a thing you're not you're never gonna get your money back you're just gonna get the learning this is where you're gonna get the learning and you might make money right there's no book that's like that where you go buy the book for twenty dollars you you have no chance of getting thirty two dollars back out of it you're trying to get the information and then go do something else with that in this case i'm gonna get the learning by actually using the tools and i might make money and because the assets themselves if ethereum might go up or i might that my startups might actually appreciate and value that sort of thing so i believe it's a sort of a par i think like like i am i that what you just described is so complicated i don't even know how to like i i just it's so out of my element it it it'd be like you speed it mean maybe like what's what don't children it's like what don't you understand it's like why i don't i don't speak spanish i don't know i mean i don't even know what i don't know like i just i can't like when someone talks to me about certain stuff i'm like you just spoke french right yeah we might need to edit this out of the podcast is might just have been too convoluted for anyone to even understand but the thing i would say is like the way you're confused i was confused the first time for con told me and then i spent one week just trying to learn all these tools i could literally fifty dollars into a meta mask account and then compound finance and i did a trade i try to see how does this all work you're doing it again dude like what i'm saying is it took me a week to to get to where i'm now and i'm still like total beginner but like you know i don't even know what like futures are or like when people talk about options and like shorting a stock i'm like i just don't know what that means yeah i'm very i'm very similar but i don't know now i've taken the opinion that every time i didn't know what these things meant it's cost me money i remember when if i was first being told about bitcoin and i didn't take the time to go and figure out what the hell this is i cost me money because i was behind for con at to him at the ico at seventeen dollars and so you know he's doing all this with you know he's he's already made fifty x twenty x on his investment and so you he's doing that i get that and it's if that interests to you and that's what you wanna be an expert in then you should do that i just think that i'm better at other stuff and i can make fifty x on a bunch of shit i would trick one thing i'm not trying to be an expert at and i'm not i don't think that's the goal i only think that would be the right goal the goal is to just get a basic understanding and a fundamental understanding of it so that i could be aware as this evolves as because this is where a lot of growth is gonna happen i know that i know that this is a a lot of growth that's gonna happen and so i would rather be able to at least speak the language and understand it at a very basic level than just be completely ignorant to it because you know you know i just it's hard i wonder what the listeners i gotta say so tell me this where do you think you can make fifty extra money mary just say what it's not marriott i can't make fifty i probably i can make fifty x if i get incredibly lucky in investing in a startup but that's incredibly unlikely but something you wanna to it's i kinda well but what i for sure can do is create like a create a business i i can create a course i can create i can do some type of internet marketing anything that can make a lot of money sure i could just say i'm available i charge a thousand dollars an hour and i'll do copywriting i could that's not fifty x because it's my time so the so that's not like that's not like pat i mean i could make hundreds of thousands probably millions of dollars a year just doing like consulting mh i think but how much you wanna learn doing that right like you're and i when i wouldn't enjoy i would not enjoy it i would not learn i mean maybe i would learn i would learn something to me that's cashing in your mastery chips that's saying i'm the teacher and i'll teach on a certain rate yes and i'm i'm just much more interested in being in the student chair than the teacher's chair right so like how do i i don't wanna be a master selling mastery chips i wanna be a beginner buying beginner chip i agree what you're saying just doesn't interest me that's why i don't care yeah this topic might just be dry boring i don't let's have the listeners just tell us if the tickets strand boring i don't know if p i don't i think a lot of people are interested in it i think a lot of people are gonna feel the way you felt in the way i felt the first time i heard this which was like oh my god like this sounds interesting but i just don't even understand whether it's actually happening here and maybe i'll do like a breakdown of sometimes when you talk stuff blind of course i feel like self conscious i'm like oh my god i am just not smart yeah like thomas i'm like is like whatever fact talking about like options i'm like in fact that actually happened me so when i was talking to vault so this is actually a good example right talking to a guy who i respect i actually care with this guy thinks about me in reality he doesn't even know me when you probably forgot me already today right but i had been listening to this guy's podcast reading his books followed his company for years so i cared i'm i cared about what the that this guy if this guy liked me i would feel good about it if he dislike me i feel bad about it so as i'm telling him this trait he's telling me i'm insane then he's like hold so walk me through this how how does this work and now he's actually smart enough to understand it he didn't he hadn't thought of this before but he was like he would get it as i was explaining it now i only have to understand what i'm doing so i'm half explaining my half understanding to this guy he's like okay so it's like a you know a short dated option trade with a highly liquid and he's saying all these terms and i'm like yeah that's one way to put it not in reality i don't i don't know if his understanding is correct because i barely not people to describe it yeah i was you know that's what i'm way think about it but here's what i'm thinking and i was just trying to pivot but in reality he was like so wait what would happen if this this and this scenario happened i was like i got no clue and so i looked like a total dips shit in front of you know this guy i cared about and then whoever else was in the room but at the same time like i don't know like that's the that's the position to be and it's like beyond the edge of like you know i i think there's all these books that are they talk about how do you get better how do you actually learn it's like if you're two far in your comfort zone you learn nothing if you're too far out out of your comfort zone you also learn nothing they to the secret of people who get great at something is that they sit right on the boundary where they're pushed beyond what they know but not so far beyond where they drowned and that's how i i i try to feel about all this stuff and if you're trying to learn about this like you might feel like you're drowning today so just go find a level where you know you're on that edge of your comfort zone and your welcome i'm definitely gonna be curious to see what what the people have to say okay cool let us know what you think like we got some feedback on our very random episode couple people liked it was it better good it was mostly it was split so basically there there was more people saying good things but i think that's because we kinda fished for a compliment and then the other the other side there was a few people who cage so you know this last episode was very mean i was like yeah okay so the mobile do is on thursday will on thursday will come prepared with loads of stuff at bang out but or you here's what people loved they loved your b keeping story and they loved my reaction to it like literally they got text being like y i haven't laughed as hard at a podcast you know business like non comedy podcast ever and who said they like the b story but i i got two tech today about it i got wanna text for my friend mike literally right before we went live and he goes what do did he say he goes sam talking about bees and you laughing was my favorite moment of the podcast wait what what did you laugh that i you remember just when you told me you were peak for us like what the like and you start explaining it and it was made no sense to me you know how you were like dude i'm not interested in d defy i better shouldn't keeping but you clearly are and it was that it was the same dynamic so we're gonna come with a lot of meat next episode i personally will come and i'm sure you will too okay cool alright so yeah we're out