#62 - Lambda School for Secretaries, Billionaire of The Week, Deepfakes & More

okay we got friend of the show jordan harbinger is here jordan how are you doing man thanks for having me on man i'm just killing self isolating you know be huge we are all isolating but i like i appreciate you dropping in on the show just para in just for a couple minutes it's always fun to have you you know this is a a crazy time twenty twenty it's been a crazy year we got coronavirus and we also had you know the sad tragic passing of kobe bryant who was a guest on your show how how did how did that happen how do you get kobe yeah you know what what's was funny is i was pitching a publicity team for a different guest that i can't even remember now because he was about one percent as famous as kobe bryant and they booked it and it was it was like some comedian which i of course was really excited about they booked it and they canceled it and i got really annoyed and they said well would you consider interviewing kobe bryant instead and i said yeah the course i would consider that let's do that so we set it up and i flew down to kobe office and went over there and hung out for a while and did the interview right there and it was it was incredible it was a really interesting experience to be there with his team as well for that day and honestly it was probably september of twenty nineteen so the timing was was interesting and you know me i asked him all kinds of questions i had nothing to do with basketball including about creativity business hiring and firing because you wonder how a guy like kobe bryant decides who to hire and how he he lets people go i know if i'd wanna be on the wrong side of him and i i did end up asking him about his life and what he's gonna do for his second act and if he ever creep i asked him if he ever thinks about what he's gonna do if he were gone because he has kids and and he was really really honest in the interview he was really really straightforward and i admire that it was a really good interview in my opinion yeah that is intense high stakes interviewing to say the least and was he like an idol of yours before he did the interview no man honestly i look who doesn't love watching basketball but i wasn't even i'm just not a fan boy of athletes in general so it was a great unique opportunity but i wasn't nervous because of that i was more nervous because you just never know if your audio equipment gonna screw up so so i was more nervous like make sure it's recording than i was nervous to be sitting in front of kobe bryant honestly he's so he was so friendly and una assuming and not very loud in fact we even had audio issues recording because we're like we gotta turn them up really high and i said you're really quiet and he goes yeah i'm just not a loud guy man and i was like oh my god can you be loud for like the next forty five minutes so it it was a really unique experience i'll i'll be thankful for that for a long time to come that is amazing you know when we started this show we were doing the interview style thing and i made a a bucket list a wish list of all the guests that i would want you know kobe was on there and when i look at your show and i've been going i've been plowing through the archive of episodes that you've got you've had a bunch of them so you've had tony hawk you've had kobe bryant who are some of the other awesome episodes that people should check out if they if they do binge your show like i'm doing sure yeah howie man was really good the comedian he he was very open about things like mental illness and how he doesn't shake people's hands i've had dennis rodman malcolm glad well and i also had frank ab which a lot of people haven't heard about or from but he to catch me if he can is the catch me if you can guy so he's the real guy that was played by leo d cap and we talked about the psychology behind how he was able to trick so many people and now he teaches of course fbi and intelligence agencies how that's done as well that is amazing so if you're one of the listeners to the to the show who misses when we used to do the interviews and bring in guests well this is this is my recommendation for you you should check out the jordan har show he's got tons of interviews from guests that we were you know hoping the one day have on our show he's already had him on check him out on on itunes on spotify wherever you can find it jordan i appreciate you guys always dropping in on the show yeah thanks for having me out guys sam how you doing why you so angry god fucking shit nothing works i hate everything my apple tv not working quick times out working i hate zoom god damn i hate but your your mohawk working that didn't even work i'm meant to shave the whole thing and i just forgot that there you did not forget the top dude i hate it working from home i hate it so much don't worry just like i don't know six to eight more weeks of this and then we're back if we're lucky if we're lucky yeah okay so let's do this it's what do we got let's jump right in the people need to be we are we are supposed to talk about why comment or such today but i found i wanna talk about something that i think is more interesting but you wanna talk about some light lighthearted stuff which is what's the sway thing yeah what is this sway thing i saw you i saw a video of you dancing was that the first time you'd seen this dance pretty well no i'd seen that it ryan hoover had posted one of him dancing and when he posted it it looked very real to me yours not looks at as real i think is where you were in your room but when i saw that i was holy shit ryan a dance and then i saw the comments that everyone was like nice app nice how do we get the beta of this app and i was like oh shit there's an app that makes you dance late so you have this app i okay i think it's pretty popular it's called sway and what it does is you record yourself for ten or twenty seconds you just stand there and you like walk around at booth and then it uses ai or i don't know what it is but or not ai it's called is it we're be are or yeah and then makes it looks like you're dancing like really good and i send it to my family and some i i made like twenty of them they thought i was dancing it was hilarious yeah it's it it looks pretty it looks pretty funny if if if it if they actually just made it a little bit less good of dancing it would look real people would believe it but it's like so good that you're like no way no it's pretty amazing and so when i downloaded it it was number fifteen in the app store and like as i was playing with it i saw i it's been climbing up the charts and did you just download it because you were browsing the app store or you saw somebody do it so i all i do i browse the app store and i like to see the fastest growing apps yeah and i like to figure out what's going on i do that with gaming all the time so i to figure out the gains that are growing fastest so yeah which just browsing gotcha and but it is viral like when you see somebody post it oh you're like you're like oh this is great i can i can like i i should do that so it has this kind of like monkey c monkey do viral reality that i well do you remember that app that you you would take a picture of your face and it would make you look older right didn't it turn out that that was owned by a russian company and they were like doing funny stuff with your pictures but i don't know if they're were actually doing anything but people were definitely sketched out by it they're like wait i just gave my camera access to some random rush developer right so did like fifty million other people like just to just to make this like a old filter or baby filter on on my base yeah so download that app it's called sway dance is it called suede it's called sway for sure sw w a y it's a cool little app it's good for a little prank and actually you know it that is a light harder way to start it because it's just funny and people should just go to your twitter and and they'll find the video of you doing it but but this is also like part of this a deep fakes like this deep fakes problem and so if you don't know what deep fake is a deep fake is basically people can now use technology to make a video look real you can make anything look so for example what they do is they'll take obama obama's talking yeah but i could just say any sentence i could just be like hey hey my name's is brock and i'm the worst president of all time and it'll make it look like his lips are moving to my sentence because they basically feed in a bunch of footage of obama talking normally and it basically the algorithm learns okay here's how obama's face moves when he says certain things and then when i i can input any audio and it'll make it look like he's doing it now right now the technologies is where it looks a little off but it's not that far off like if i showed it to my leave that off right but it's just getting better month over month so they just showed a like a paper just came out with a new one and it's literally just taking a still photo so they took the mona lisa and then they do the same thing i can go say a sentence and it will make the mona lisa say it like the the the voice can can is that good and so like it's pretty crazy that they can just do that off still photo you don't even need like hours and hours of raw footage of the person in order to do this now but what do you think of this whole deep fixing because it's a big problem like your sister's a lawyer and i think she was she was like a da before right or sister yeah well she she are not a public defender and and then she's the public defender in the bronx and and people yeah now it's like if you can't trust what you see right if if if audio like we already have photos that could be photoshop audio now that can be like live bird i think is the name of it where basically you just you just talk you can you you can train you can train this system to where you can just type anything and it'll say it in your voice or it'll say in donald trump's voice so if you can't believe what you see what you hear or what's in video then how does that like mess up the world like fake news is gonna become a bigger problem yeah it's gonna become a problem but why are we defaulting to that why are we worrying about mean yeah it's gonna be a problem but also let's think about all the amazing things like like act like there's gonna be fake actors like my dance like in your dance video yeah like it's gonna be on that it's gonna make movies amazing like like brad pitt won't exist will be it'll well it will be it'll be a aj pitt and it will be some fake person and i think that's awesome so here's a future world well you literally are just looking at your computer and instead like today if you wanna make a movie or an animation you have to like be an animator or a movie editor or an an artist to be able to draw you're just gonna be able to say things and it's gonna be able to create what you're what you're saying so you're gonna be able to say okay what if donald trump was talking to to you know whatever barack obama and then donald jumped in the air and he said this and then literally it's just gonna be able to animate that's how that's how far this is gonna go and that's gonna unlock the ability to create stuff to people who don't have the technical skills to do it today yeah i mean i'm but i'm not too worried about how they're gonna regulate it because like if you have a political ad now it like anyone can run an ad on facebook or on tv and it says donald trump i'm donald trump and i hate mexicans anyone can do that right now but i mean like literally the tech like you could buy ads but there are ways to say like well no that's not allowed and it has to say like i'm down trump and i support this you know what i mean like there are ways to like what been like if you were a tv a political tv ad right now it has to say who pays for it sure it has to say is it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be a political thing right this this can go for anyone someone in high school can just bully somebody else like right now the thing that yeah i deep fakes got famous because people were putting other people's faces on porn actors and you could make it look like i could take a photo of your mom and i could put it on a it put it into a porn and it would look like your mom's in the porn and people were doing this with celebrities people were doing this with their classmates and you know the red the subreddit for this got huge is r slash fix r slash deep fakes and so this is how we got popular because it was like this incredible building tool like forget about political ads it's just like sla left and right did did it did it get taken down that subreddit no i i think it's still up and i'm gonna don't know i haven't been in a long time but when it first blew up you know it it got really popular because people were you know if oh yeah it is banned from reddit now because it it was like it was becoming a problem oh yeah but that that didn't stop the actual the actual problem that just stop the subreddit where people are sharing it so so i think this is gonna be a massive massive problem for evidence think it's a gonna become a massive problem for just like sla and you know spin like i could i could take a video of you it make it say that you hate mexican people and it's not yeah donald trump and and people would believe it because they would see your face and they would say i saw him say that yeah know yeah i don't know and so i'll tell you what some people are trying to do to combat this because there's a whole bunch of programmers who programmers in general are have a high bar for the truth they really want things to be true logical sol reliable and so when you take away evidence evidence which used to be source of truth it's like well you're saying this but i have video of you doing that thing so that's evidence but now it's like well this video could be anything this video could be fake so they're trying to solve listen with the way that they think it can be solved so the theory is anything you make to sort of validate stuff the conrad artists will always be one step ahead and there's too big of a payoff to be able to fake this stuff well it's like a counterfeit fitter and so you're always a cat mouse game which is not a winning solution so the solution that they believe is that the phone makers themselves the device makers themselves will need to put a crypto graphics seal on the video when it's taken and it's like a tamper proof seal like we have with medicine or whatever where it's like if this sit seal is broken that means this video has been edited in some way and so at some point people will only trust videos or photos that have this this crypto graphics seal on them that says this has not been edited because it's it's on the device itself from when it got captured it gets instantly implemented on and so working on that well the problem is a startup can't do this right because it's actually apple that needs to implement it it's actually samsung that needs to implement this and so luckily apples are pretty privacy conscious company and they know that like if their tools are being used for evil they usually actually do stuff about it so hopefully apple is working on this but i a friend who is doing a start trying to do this and he was running into this problem which is like look the people who need to do this are all all the camera makers like you know the security camera itself needs to do this and that's the only like decent solution now some technical people will say oh there's nothing that's actually tamper proof you can still you could still you know get around there fair but is better the and that they are right but there are still things where mostly it mostly works right exactly i think that's the world that that's the way the world is gonna work later where you're gonna need to see this little you know icon that says it's like you know it's the gluten free icon it's the it's the or organic icon it's gonna be this is legitimate and there's gonna be a legitimacy icon on any photo over that's the icon business that's a good business you know jd d power no i've haven't i've heard it but i don't know what you're gonna tell me right now but you know what it is right it's like all i know fifty five j d power j power and associates that's all i know does that mean okay so j d power the reason i looked into this because i wanted to create a business like this where i was like k because i was like this is a fucking racket and i'm like it does sound it does give a little it does give value if they're if you but you have to be like a ben neville dictator where like you can like rule it but you really gotta be honest otherwise trust as a service right right and j d power what they do is it's a billion dollar company shady powers is and all i mean what they do is they test different cars and they give it awards but the the way that they make money is the car companies are members of the organization so so if you're like if if you know if you only do want the money you don't give a fuck about like being ethical you could be like hey ford like our new membership costs us which money are you guys in or out and just so you know if you're out we can't give you awards that's crazy yeah that yeah if you could be in the business of being the rating agency that is gold in fact you know but one of the problems is like if people remember during the the subprime crisis i i believe what happened was these these subprime mortgages the bonds that were the sec housing bonds the mortgage bonds were rated aaa and people are like how is this rated aaa a this is like a junk bond while i would be rated aaa and the i think i believe this the companies i think it was the banks that were funding standard and poor right so yeah standard and poor was the rating agency and they were the one sort of funneling money exactly it's the same thing it's the same thing and so they lost their or they didn't actually lose it they're still around they're still one of the kinda of main reading agencies but like that's a breach of breach of trust when the only thing you're providing is trust as a service yeah it's the same thing so j d power was sold to mcgraw hill in two thousand and five for four hundred million dollars and then it was sold again recently in two thousand and eight nineteen i think for north of a billion right i've really been wanting to do the same thing i looked like you have i've been wanted to create a credentialing agency so either in the standardized testing world so like you know the way sat no these these things are a racket because they can charge whatever the hell they want because you need that credential to move forward and these credentials were were you know from for the most part all these credentials were just created at one point in time and so i was looking into like is there another credential that i could create that literally all on providing is a stamp and i just get paid for for for the stamp you know what i've always wanted to do that similar is a vendor list so like sean if you're launching something you're gonna come to me because you think i know a little bit about copywriting and you're gonna say do you know any copywriter i'm gonna be like i know one or two but like they're hard to find it and so in my head i'm like i just kinda create sam's where it just have like a approved vendors and now this is the best what are you saying this is the best are you saying these are ten that you should check out or you think this is the best one like wire cutter well i don't think you could do the best one because if you have the best copy that person will always be busy but like there are definitely like dozens or hundreds that you can approve i mean i guess angie list was something similar and that's huge but like i've always wanted to do this for copywriter in particular i was i i i almost bought sam or almost did sam's and because people are always like which copywriter should do i'm like i don't know ma'am like i could post on my social media but like it's a lot of work for me to go and find them for you right but like the same thing with law firms the same thing with accountants right i'm like man i gotta just create like a vendor list of people who i know and approve of the that's cool the version of this i wanted to do was around either iq so i was like oh okay like men's the iq like can i basically create some bullshit test that essentially labels people and then you know if you're in the top five percent you get this extra little certificate and so people would pay to be basically have that as as a bragging right or i was also thinking about it for developers like is there a just an extra credential you could pay thirty nine dollars to get that basically says yes i know x language or i am comp i have this level of competency at this thing and i'm really a big fan of if anyone's out there creating credential you know credential agency or trust us the service i'm very very interested in those because i think those are beautiful beautiful businesses extremely easy to run low cost low risk and the more you do it the more powerful they become because the more you're the more times you see j power even if you don't even fully know what it is it's like oh we need to go get that that's the that's the standard so i just looked up men while you're talking they have a hundred and fifty they're nonprofit it's a hundred and fifty thousand members and they do about four point eight million dollars a year in sales interesting what that thing i wanted the back yeah but like as a nonprofit you never know like what's the what was their modem how are they doing well but you do know dude you can go and look up at all their they have to file a four oh government form and you can see right how much the how much they pay themselves how much revenue and what their expenses are right i i guess what saying is i haven't i haven't done that part like the same thing can be done for athletes by the way like you know how nfl players go through the combine which is basically this battery of test you'd run a forty yard dash you do this bench press of a hundred and eighty five pounds you do a vertical leap test and so i really wanted it i i i really think that somebody could create a credentialing thing where you just have this facility in different cities and people pay to come in to get up officially tested to get their scores and it's like here's how good i am is an athlete and then they use that when they're trying to basically like get on au teams or get color scholarships shapes or whatever it is it's like today we only offer that to nfl players right before they get drafted but i think that there should be a sort of a standard service for athletes to say hey what's my reaction time what's my agility test what's my vertical i did that when i was a kid when i was in high school i did the same thing it was called spark and okay s p e a r q and the guy who created it was a x he was a college a very elite college runner in the seventies and eighties i think his name was rudy i figured his rudy chap i'm i'm remembering it was help us top of my head rudy chap he was a two mile from california at high school he i think he had the high school state record or high school national record for the two mile at like eight thirty something right and his name is rudy chap i think am i right is his name rudy chap i'm on the website right now i don't i i haven't looked at his name but yeah this looks interesting and before test and he was a nike executive and then he created the spark test and what you did it was very similar to a combine and it would and i get it i i crushed it it was a forty yard forty yard dash a broad jump a vertical jump how far you can throw a medicine ball right and maybe that's it and they would give you a score and that score and i went to this place called velocity sports in velocity sports was created by the coach of ls huge track and field and it was a chain of gyms that you can go to for high school kids and run shit like that and the velocity sparks must have paid spark money to use it and then when you applied to college i would put my spark score to get us scholarship yeah dude that's exactly what i'm thinking about and i'm looking at their website now it looks very basic but yeah this is interesting i think there's a lot of unused facilities like track track and field that are unused so much of the time that you could do this without capex probably as long as you say like you know when you run a race and it's like as long as the wind conditions are under this then it's in a this counts in the official thing right so i bet you could use you know in the summertime schools that are empty you could use their track and field facilities and build to build a program like this because now people with sports are parents with sports are have become so crazy where people are doing travel sports at like h six h seven you're paying thousands of dollars for your seven year old to play baseball and beyond this like elite team and this is like a multi billion dollar the travel sports industry and i think all those people would be people who would wanna get their kid tested and you could drive facebook ads to say hey get your kid tested here's your score what's your score and then every year you want it upgraded because it's like oh i've gotten stronger faster and taller so i want my official measurements that i that are sort of ratified and here's another example of this is love this is kinda funny we're kinda ranting on this i i did zero research on this other than like i didn't prepare for this so i mean neither i just thought of this idea while we were talking that's how fucking great we are dude just take a minute to appreciate that do you know gallo i do know gall yes okay so wait i did my microphone is are we it's a good okay so gall is is a polling service right polling company created by this guy named joseph gallo i think and the another company or like a a smaller company bought gallo and it was a family owned business and the founder of that company that bought gallo his name was i forget his name exactly but do you remember strengths finder yes the guy who owned the family business that bought gallo he is the author of strengths finder i see and so strength strengths finder it's hard for for me to say they have a book that is popular but it's even though it's popular it doesn't make nearly the amount of money that the company makes the company makes about a billion or two billion dollars a year it's privately owned it's probably one of the largest privately owned companies in america like top two hundred and they have a quiz so if you google strengths finder quiz it's a twenty nine dollar or forty nine dollar quiz and it tells you where you rank on strengths finder right i've i've taken it because somebody sent it to me jim clifton the name of the guy here jim clifton jim clifton his dad jim clifton was the ceo of gallo right and this was his thing and so it was like a survey they make hundreds of millions of dollars a year off that quiz yes exactly so i've taken trans and this is when i was like oh this is just bullshit okay gotcha like first of all if a test you cannot fail it's just saying which of these strengths do you have so you you're just gonna get one of the doesn't like twenty five strengths or whatever it's like here's the five you get leadership determination and you know innovation and whatever and then the other person gets like empathy and you know you know thoughtful and whatever else so it's it's pretty genius and they sell all at these two companies who wanna basically take these personality tests for leaders to say hey we wanna understand our employees better you wanna understand your team teammates better and this will help you work together better and i believe strat was doing like a hundred million plus in revenue i i'd have to go to double check that but but yeah it's like a tremendously successful franchise and the book is really just a it's like a code you get in the book that says go take this quiz online and then the book is like kinda useless on that but you have to it works really well using that book because like i've i said i've i've kinda talked about this me and ramon we own this this this this software for tu list and we get all of our sign ups practically because one guy who has a book mentioned our service and it gets sign ups in the books not even popular that's basic also like we you talked about that person in our facebook group the my first million side hustle facebook group basically who is doing a chest tutoring service any niche sport or niche niche thing like chess i don't know it probably is already because chest is still widely established but probably is already sort sort of benchmark or test you take but if i was him i would basically create my own in anyways which is like oh by the way for all my students like once a year we do this hundred dollar you know test and you get your chest chest queue score and what your chess queue score tells you your adaptability your you know recognition cognition whatever and and as well it is it's not like total horse shit you actually are testing to see how good they are at certain things but i think it's a it's just a a very simple way to make a lot of money off of kind of vapor wear there's nothing physical you're doing there vapor wear in that it's real but it's it's lightweight it's it's very simple to create it's very simple to maintain there's no like employees or assets you need to buy or well because sean someone in the reviews our latest reviews says that you and i are unethical and that you have check your ethics at the door if you're gonna listen to this podcast probably bullshit but i just wanna make them aware that what you say vapor wear you beat it's real or it's substance but yeah vapor is the wrong word for what i meant is very lightweight thing to create and maintain and very low cost to create another example of this is doug scored do you know doug score never heard of it dude it's just this guy named doug tomorrow he's this nerd like he's like the nerd guy ever and he's got like four million subscribers on youtube and like he's the type of guy who wears like a collar shirt but like you can see his white under shirt sticking out right from like the sleeves you know people like he's like i know exactly where you car just like a sloppy nerdy guy and but he's amazing he has a a thing where he reviews cars and he creates a doug score which is based off of like is this fun for a weekend car or is this fun for a daily driver and now at this point he's got a thousand cars that he's ranked and i'm when i'm buying my car now i check i checked the doug score i like that okay that's cool like kelly blue book for for value and then doug score for sort of enjoyment i like that and kelly kelly blue book great example like let me looks the multi billion dollar company yeah but they they provide a little different thing they have just like a dataset that they're able to use to to to give you a a a price comparison which is like different than sort of a aptitude test but nonetheless i'm curious do you think we are low ethics do you think you have a sort of a looser ethical criteria than most people for business i think that we have a looser attitude yes but by the way it's i think it's it's significantly above the line of like good like right like for example most people are like i can't pre sell product that i don't have and i'm like am i head i'm like who cares just refund the people and like you haven't you sound like i'm not saying steal money i'm saying advertise something it doesn't exist so you can get demand improve demand and then you refund the money you i'm not seeing steal from them but yeah you are lying and so i think that's ethical right yeah i think we definitely have a a looser definition than the average person i would say the average maybe the average business person even but there is you know i think the the the problem here is there's no standards right there's no there's no definition for what what's ethical what's not it's completely subjective and judgmental and so the the the hard party is you know for us we think there's a line between right and wrong and we're on the right side we we we think we have a safe margin of a buffer where we're in the right but for other people their line might be in a different spot yeah but that's because most people are aggressive but anything that i do i would i would would suggest to my mom that she buy whatever i'm promoting or like it's like do i want my family to use this or or if i told them about what i'm doing what i like do i wanna hide this right and i don't i'm i'm i'm anything that i do i'm not afraid to tell i met this guy once this guy i had reached out to me about we're building this product called lab and vlad was getting popular this guy i reached out said hey my name is billy i'm from you know i forgot where from like santiago or the trying mexico or some somewhere in and let let him and he was was like i'm coming up to california coming to san francisco i wanna meet you and i wanna talk to you about this company i was like okay i don't i don't know about that like most of the people who that are users of a product are not usually people i wanna like do meetings with necessarily but he said a bunch of stuff in his email that made him sound amazingly legit he was like my family started the first television station in mexico we you know i own all these different like music festivals and he he sounded like super legit but his email is written with blue text font and like different sizes of text it's all copy and paste yeah well well no no not like that like it was like like he had chose like no i'm good my emails are blue and not the like copy paste little purple thing it was like this was just his style i was like i don't know if this guy's is a joker or not anyways we go out to dinner and i have very low hopes we go to a sushi place and i walk in and i see probably the most handsome guy i've ever seen and this guy billy was extremely well put together he's like in a suit and tie he looks legit he we sit down on the table he orders the o casa which is basically chef choice like two hundred dollar each sushi dinner and he's like i got this don't worry and i'm like okay i'm starting to believe but you know it could be could still be someone who's faking it and he starts telling me a story and this guy's completely the legit he's probably the most charismatic guy i've ever met my whole life i was like you know if if if i sworn that way i'd be in love right now like this guy is amazing so at the end of the dinner i asked him a question i said hey you know you're a very persuasive guy like this was you clearly are good at this right you're clearly very persuasive very charming i said i used to think i'm that way till i met you basically i used to think i was in the sort of top tier of that but i will sort of had this hesitation of like you know should i use my my powers for good or evil type of thing like where do you draw the line on using this but this guy's like debt who's a real i'm completely legit yes and and so he really was wealthy very successful very smart very charming and all that good stuff and so i asked him i said you know what do you think he goes my rule is this he goes if your intentions are good then it's all a fair game and so he was like he was like it all the matters of the intent if you're trying to scam people if you're trying to con people if you're trying to not deliver value if you're trying to just get something that's a good situation for you and not for the other person you shouldn't be doing it what you shouldn't be using all these powers of persuasion it's like but if you think you are genuinely gonna help people if you think you are genuinely in the right if you think you're are generally working for a good cause if your mission is pure if your intent is good then it's all fair game you should use it to the max and i was like alright billy thank you very much for this incredible i completely agree with him and if you study you know like persuasion and charm and i use it in the form of copy that's all some people are born better but it's a teachable skill and i always tell people like what i'm gonna tell you it's gonna sound like evil like i'm gonna teach you how to manipulate people but make sure you use it for good right because you can easily use this for bad and you know what here's a here's a weird counter to this and this is where you know people are gonna be like okay this guy's actually evil okay so the other way of doing this so the so one way one of the things is to say what you just said which is use these powers for good the other thing i've i'd i've been able to do is is the opposite which is when i see somebody do something for evil but it works i try to learn from it and so for example the i remember the first time i saw that i'll give you a recent example for i completely agree so trump is somebody who i'm not a fan of i think the guy is bad in all these different ways but when i watch him the guy is an incredibly effective communicator and he's not polished he doesn't use fancy fifteen dollar words he doesn't have a lot of substance behind what he's saying but the guy is like a a master of of communication the guy knows how to get his point across in a way that resonates with people i completely agree scott adams who's the creative of gilbert was talking about this when trump was running if you haven't seen it go read scott adams is blog he's a creator of gilbert and he was early on when trump first announced his candidacy scott adams called it he goes this guy's gonna win and people were like what he goes i've been studying persuasion for twenty years i'm just studying being h i've been a communicator through cartoon i know an effective communicator when i see one this guy is a master he goes and so he he would come up whenever trump would say things like low energy j or whatever when he would like call j bush low energy he was like these are linguistic kill shots these are and or when he would talk about the wall he it's a great big wall a huge wall and he's like he's painting a picture in people's minds which is much better than talking about policy and so so you can learn from people that you think are using it for well he he and he called that he was gonna win he called he was gonna win months before anybody even took them him seriously when five thirty eight was like this guy's gonna a zero percent chance scott adams adam was like this guy's gonna win and of course if he was wrong nobody would ever even really pay attention to it because you know but when you're right on on a and prediction you get all the credit and the other example of this was hitler so hitler when hitler was rising to power i studied how did this guy get so popular did this guy do because when you watch him speak he's not a very compelling guy but they did a lot of things so one thing i remember that stood out to me this i was in seventh grade and remember learning about this and when hitler was trying to rise to power all the political campaign posters were all like full color lots of text people trying to explain their position on things and hitler with the other way everything he did was black and white which would be normally it would not stand out but he was like well i will contrast everybody else who's using tons of color on their stuff i'll go black and white the second thing was he would use only like big images and like really powerful images and not a bunch of text and then he would use movies as propaganda and but you know fill the cinema with people to watch a movie but it was very much a propaganda thing behind it so even though he used it for evil those techniques and principles are interesting to learn from for me as somebody who wants to you know have a strong toolkit that i can use for good i completely agree i was reading i've been going on so many wikipedia holds now that i'm home so much i was reading about i read hitler's wikipedia because that i was reading about world war two and let me like i was reading about the mafia and then world war two and then like out and is like he's there is like his rise to pop hour was because he like would speak at these i don't know what what the equivalent of is now but just like halls where he right like bars like veteran halls and i'm like wait a minute he started as a speaker that's it right well it was kinda crazy so okay couple of the things global we'll switch topics because people now are like what because guys just saying trump and hill are good i don't understand okay so i have an idea for you so i call this my new lambda school idea have you ever do you guys have like an office administrator or office admin i don't know if you guys are we had yeah i mean we have someone who handles stuff yes and do i can have our and things like that right i'm talking more like so admin work or like an executive assistant or our secretary do you have any anybody like that have you ever so recently i'm at at my work we're hiring an ea right so we had an ea issue left had to hire a id executive assistant and so they put me on the hiring panel and i'm like okay i'm gonna know what questions i'm supposed to ask like i i i don't really know what the background does should be looking for all that stuff i started thinking about this start looking it up so it turns out that office administrators or or secretaries or or executive administrators ea is one of the most popular jobs in the country and it's also something where so there's about you know say six hundred thousand i think in the us and they pay pretty well so it doesn't require tons of specialized skill it's pretty much anyway he can learn to do this if you're you know somewhat competent but you can make fifty sixty seventy eighty k doing this i thought that's a pretty good paying job and i know at our company the ea is they're critical they do such an amazing job they they're they they help and all the senior leaders do what they do and so i started looking about this and i said could there be a lambda school for ea because i think this is something that in three months you could teach people the core skills that you need around calendar booking travel you know note taking all the different sort of core components that you need to do to do this job well you know it's not rocket science you just need to learn the tools and learn the sort of do's and don'ts and then i think companies when you know like us when we're hiring for this there's no like school or degree that you look at you're like oh because you have this degree you're gonna do a good job and so it's usually like do you already have experience doing this or not but that's a catch twenty two because how do you break in if if everyone wants to hire for somebody who already has experience doing it and so i'm thinking that you could create a program that tells it offers people who says hey in three months we can train you for a job that'll pay you fifty sixty or seventy k a here and it's a job that has good you know work life balance and all these other characteristics of it and so and you could use the lambda school model where you take an income share agreement you say great i'm training people for three months it cost me three thousand dollars to do this remote virtual school but i make back you know up to fifteen k seventeen k per candidate that gets placed into a job over time what do you think of this idea fucking love it and i'm looking it up right now org org dot c have you heard of org org no that's a hilarious name though we use it let's see how big their team is that can kinda tell us how big they are but okay what org org is is it's a community community slash community slash job board it's not like a don't know how you would describe it in one word it's org org is a one hundred percent volunteer run organization we have job blogs resources we have private groups then email lists and it's all for hr and right executive assistants office manager hr apartments and d i y admin assistant like you know whatever it's so and so my our old ea was on this and it was an email list and and they would send out blast like hey i'm looking for the best i it person our company is small we only have a budget of two thousand dollars who do you recommend or like when i wanted to hire new ea i had a friend post a listing on there and i got tons of applicants what i would do with your idea is i would either buy the this company man these these the lady who runs i forget her name but she could be making millions off of this but i don't think she is i bet she's making hundreds of thousands of dollars so but i would buy that yeah i would buy that buy it or become the platinum sponsor for you know fair a fair rate and use it for for the sort of the user acquisition and there's this powerful thing because once you build the brand that hey yeah this is it's like a staffing agency right but it's a it's a big internet internet version of a staffing agency and once you play some people two good things happen the first is you're get a reputation that says hey rd have been hired by company a b c d e and if we could become we become a trustworthy source for grid good but then also right now all the candidates in our current ea pipeline came from our existing ea people they knew from their network and so is your alumni become your hiring become your hiring partners and so the more alumni you placed the more opportunities you have for your own graduates and so i think that's like the real power of of the lambda school model and unlike development so the labor school model you gotta break that shit down labor school model you're saying you train them for free and then you get a percentage of their salary train yes you train love that model for everything not for everything necessarily but i think when you have a low cost of training it's a great model because it it reduces the friction to join because you say well it's free and so it's i only i only have to pay them if i get a high paying job out of this so your incentives are aligned right because we want you to get a high paying job you came to us to get a high paying job we only get paid if you get a high paying job and if you get a high paying job this is a reasonable payback for for us providing that service to you and so i think anyway any place where you have a low cost of training this is a very good mechanism it's just a debt mechanism it gets a lot of hype but really it's just a debt vehicle and but i think it's a good debt vehicle for for this let's oh wanted to bring up this xavier neil story okay yes alright so xavier neil i'm sorry i feel like i've been talking most of this past but it's it's really interesting so xavier neil is my new favorite billionaire so this is my second section this is my segment of the show called my new favorite rich guy so this guy is essentially like a elon musk type of dude in france but instead of trying to send rockets to mars this guy just operates in his own style but he's got the same kind of protocol call like no fucks given attitude like a branson or a elon musk and i never heard of this guy so i'll tell you how i discovered him so i discovered him because he created this thing called forty two have you ever heard of the school called forty two no so he may so we've in france he's in france he so i'll i'll tell you his kinda like life story so age nineteen he creates this business called minute tel minute tel is essentially a sex hotline a phone service you i know you call it's i'll call like sort of a sex line and at nineteen he creates this thing and it goes gang buster and so he's doing really well makes a few million bucks off this then he either creates or invest in buy by a stake in something called world net sold a few few years later for fifty million bucks right before the dot com crash and then his big thing that he did was he created this thing called free and free was like a a t mobile it's like a a mobile carrier and at the time in france all like sms phone plans are all very expensive so he created he under undercut everybody he created the like lowest cost way to have you know a cellular cellular service and so free became this huge company so his his net worth balloon to like six point six billion dollars i'm looking him up now this guy is my favorite person ever yeah and he's he's very legit and so he was like alright look what do i wanna do now i wanna do more shit and so he was like okay i'm gonna create this thing called forty two so he was like i'm gonna create a computer science school with no teachers and no staff so all you did was created this dope facility with a bunch of computers and if you get into forty two you just come and the computer is your lesson plan so it's like a video game there's like a challenge it's like hey you need to make a website that can do x y and z here you're like okay and it's like you have the internet and you have some people next to you and like you guys need to figure out how to get past this level and so you start doing the program and so self serve you do it you do a bunch of like projects to level up plus you create your own you know like projects or ideas so somebody created i don't know like somebody could create like a coronavirus tracker right now because that's a timely little website you can be i'm it up now they have twenty five hundred students yeah and and it's actually closed right now because the physical facility it closed here but it was a is a wild idea i don't even know how successful it's been i don't think it's been a wild success but i love his bet so he was like yeah i'm gonna put a hundred fifty million dollars into this so he built one in france and he built one here in fremont for a hundred million dollars in california and it was just like said what a what a radical idea what a way to bet your money and try like change the world over and over and over again and then he did this thing in in france he's like okay how do i build the like start up ecosystem here so he created this thing called station f and if you just think it's like the fucking nasa facility it's like this huge huge like like i don't know how many football feels long office or hanger or c working space and he's like alright i'm gonna make the dope place for any investor to come when they're in europe here here's some space to go hang out entrepreneurs you're starting companies come over here and and build your company here's an office space restaurants come here at the bottom fill this place up you know jim whatever so they he created his own little oasis kinda like tony shade did in vegas this guy did in france this guy's is in base station what what i'm i just love this guy's style so first of all two i've looked it up out he's out perfect two thousand four he was indicted and detained for a month for misuse of company assets which occurred in several of his sex shops that he was a shareholder in and we ended up getting a two years suspended prison sentence for misuse the company assets so is certainly not perfect i i don't know i'm just reading up this one thing though in addition to all this he owns the rights of the song my way by frank sin which i love the only one of the largest newspapers in france it was super interesting guy when i'm curious about people like this and andrew wilkinson it's gonna be on the pot is he gonna be on on this tuesday yeah next the next seven episode basically so andrew kinda andrew not exactly but kinda does soy it in the same way as well so we have to ask him about this what i wanna know is how do these people manage so many freaking projects right because like i i can't even manage what i have on my plate and like right so it's always prolific so so the you know they hire they i hire people to run their shit right like i worked with the guy michael bird who's kinda like this like billionaire type of dude and he created this incubator with his totally different model or everybody owns all the equity in all the projects and you know he picked me to run that's run the show form him so he and he trust me he's pretty hands off we checked in but like he'd let me run the show so i was looking at this guy xavier neil and he's got somebody this woman from google who runs station at the big the big facility he's got somebody who runs his investment fund and the guy that guy was telling the story goes you know we don't have board meetings but i was like xavier don't you wanna know what i'm doing with your fund and he's hey yeah for sure tell me and he's like the he goes i told him i hey we invested all these companies i think we should double down on these winners and make make less small investments sense and do more on the winning companies and what do he say okay he goes he goes i'm not i'm not doing this to make more money i'm doing this to make more companies invest in more companies and i was like what he's like is like you could double down but don't stop investing a new in like new small small companies and then the other thing that they talked about in his thing kinda like what you're saying how do you manage this they're showing like the guy showed his email inbox all the emails from this guy and i've noticed this a lot of wealthy busy people their emails look like text messages so like this guy will write him a long email about like hey we're thinking about this plan here's what we could do here here's their probably okay cool or like literally it's up to you all good it's like up the number two the letter u all good where do i see this screenshot there there was a story i think it like a forbes or bloomberg story or something about this guy and they they they put that put that there in but i think there's a pretty common thing amongst the people who do a lot of i guess kinda of like if i buy like like i've talked about how i'm i'm i'm gonna buy like it just a toy car like a fun car i guess it'd be like the equivalent to me meet by i mean like a ten thousand dollar car and like letting someone use it and it's like dude not i don't care just make sure it comes back in one piece right so you know the thing i guess the thing i wanna clarify because when andrew andrew's coming on tuesday i'm i like andrew for the same reason i like this guy and they're totally different right andrew andrew's is not gone of jail and didn't start a sex hotline and it's not a billionaire like well we don't know that for sure go not this guy are and the and this guy has about twenty years on andrew so give him time but i guess like the thing the the thing that stands out to me is i respect above all all else people who do shit their own way people who have their own they they are original thinkers and decide to live life on their own terms that's kinda what i got out of this guy is i think i feel like this guy branson and elon musk the thing i like about them and they definitely have lots of flaws and lots of f you know messed up things that they do but i just respect that they don't just follow a normal societal playbook they live life on their own terms they they they they basically know marshall be on drum or whatever that's what i like about them that's what i like about andrew he's done it completely his way which is very non traditional do you think this guy speaks good english this french guy yeah let's i bet he's alright let's fucking an email yeah let's do it i'm looking at them now i i mean i he i'm i would if you're french i mean if you're a a magnet like this i i would imagine you you speak some english but is he yeah speech good to nothing english to be on this i'm sure you i'm sure we'll learn french dude it we'll we will we will make it happen if we need to yeah we'll be like a y y romero and joe rogan just has a translator on the podcast i'm down i would love to do this and this guy's is in ka with this other guy who i don't wanna say his name because it's too embarrassing if i pronounced if i try to sit it nate it say it because he's french but i it's bernard arnold na do you know who that is they don't help me beach okay i'll tell you really quick he's usually goes back and forth with gates and a few of these other guys that's the richest guy in the world he l l h it stands for louis vuitton something but they own chanel they own louis vuitton they own it's the largest luxury group in the world they own fe fe and what's the rihanna on yeah yeah they own that so the way he started it was his father was wealthy and they owned a construction business and it was big but it wasn't like billionaire big but i think they sold it for like twenty million dollars in in the sixties which is a lot of money that i mean that's probably the equivalent of twenty million that's probably the equivalent of a hundred million now so it's a lot of money and so anyway he convince this father when this guy bernard was in his twenties and he goes dad we got a diver divert we gotta sell our construction business and buy luxury goods because when i went to new york they all knew what chanel was but that's not even a big company and so he goes let's supposed fucking buy chanel and so they bought chanel for a small some millions of dollars but not what it's worth now and then he runs it and he it starts buying more and more and more so he turned a construction company into the owner of louis vuitton and dude they own a lot of shit so i'm just throw off some names so they own belvedere they own hen they own dior they own fend they own fe they own tag they own hub they own moa they own i mean this is this is like a like i don't know a luxury brand that's not on this list yeah they own it all like do they but then like gucci i think gucci is its own brand yeah the it's kinda like you know like the ab and dev where it's like yeah two companies own like all the other sub companies yeah well this freaking guy did it and he it started as a construction distance right and this doesn't happen that much anymore but this is what i love about business before for some reason it seemed like this happened this used this used to happen a lot chinese are notorious for doing this where they diversify like crazy so i don't think this doesn't happen more i think this is just something that happens on like a fifty year horizon and so it's just hard for us who like we're just for five years we've just been furiously looking at this for ten years to see these things that are planning out over fifty or a hundred year arcs right like i agree i agree with you but i've studied a handful of chinese companies that were launched in the nineties and two thousands and they are like cray easy about doing that right where like they would start something in like two years later they own like apartment buildings it's like what the heck it's not even like and and the japanese have done it as well they they have a name for it i don't wanna pronounce it because i don't wanna butcher i don't even know how to say it it starts with the k ta i think okay and it and it and it's basically it's kinda like how do you know how yamaha makes motorcycles piano and chainsaw saw right and carb is kinda like that like they like are known for doing that and so what do you okay so i i was saying what i respect the most soft bank did it too right so what i saying was i when i respect the most is people who who you know create their own playbook on how they wanna live their life and i agree what off what what would be your because like i think you kinda like the like mo types you love researching what are you like your highest highest bit thing you respect people people the the same you said it best i agree with what you said people who people who look at the world that be like yeah i get it the world's this way i'm gonna bend the world to make it my way though and have you like in your own small way do you think you done that like what's an example of where you've bent the world into working the way you wanted to work i think that i'm antoine from missouri i think that some of my friends from missouri think that i have done that i do not think that i have done that right but i think give it time and i will i think some of the things you did with the puzzle were like that so for example you didn't go to the vc route in fact you did some weird shit like crowdfunding funding and other stuff along the way and from the beginning i think you i remember you distinctly saying because i was like why don't you do facebook you know why don't you do video why don't you snapchat that sits hot and you were like no i wanna do email because that's my own little pirate ship that i can own and i not i don't have how dependent on any other i wanna make my own pirate and i wanna get my pirate video a big fucking pirate chip and i just never really heard anyone talk like that or think like that where they were so specific around the like the path to victory dude i have a video like i'm i i'm normally i tried not to brag on myself because i think i got a lot of flaws but the way our company is shaping now i made a video in two thousand and fifteen and i outlined what was gonna happen and it is one hundred percent happening exactly like that wait where is that video what would it on youtube if you google the hustle seed vests i explained i go we're gonna build to a million people we're gonna profit from advertising and we're gonna use all that profit to build more stuff we're gonna sell that stuff and then we're gonna build more media around it and it is happening exactly and do you know how you said pirate ship let me show you something hold on let me show you something stay there alright so i'm all camera if i'm gonna show you why you're gonna see what i'm doing alright so sam just dropped his pants and i'm looking at a giant pirate ship tattoo on his thigh when did you get that in two like right around what i was telling you about the company i got a pirate chip and it says bold fast fine so you basically tall you've you tattooed your business plan under your thigh yes i love i tell everyone i go email list is our pirate ship and every email is a little bit of wind in our sales i love it that's great okay we got end on that that's a classic i should've taken a screenshot of that one okay so we will see you guys tuesday we're gonna have andrew on when we say tuesday that's before we record these come out it looks like a freaking loose cannon right now with the mohawk and tattoos i not actually like that alright man i will will let catch you later okay