5 Big Ideas for a Business with Greg Isenberg

why does everyone hate on i'm getting rich quick get rich quick schemes are the best i wanna get rich quick i don't wanna get rich slow it's actually colder here than the arctic circle wow why do you live there well i'm mostly live in miami irs if you're listening to this but i'm sometimes in a mountain town in the middle of nowhere sam i saw you posted today that you've got about twenty acres in texas but i'm staring out at ninety five acres of arctic window winter land right now is that cool or no i mean i love i love it out here i'm from i'm from here so for me it's but it's it's slow living it's nice yeah i love it is that why you look like pilot right now in the cockpit or why what's going on here i mean style makes saddle blue my coast i'm a on on the where it happens pod we do it together and he always makes fun of this but i'm a i'm a gamer so i'm not afraid i'm not afraid to admit be who you are man be who you are greg so you're here because i don't even know why you were talk we weren't even i don't even know what we were saying we were talking about the will smith thing you had some hot takes sam had some hot takes how can we start with anything else but the bitch slap of the century will smith bitch slaps chris rock for making fun of his wife we i think we have a different opinion on each one of these things sam give me your first where were you would it happened how did you hear about it what was your first take i was laying in bed and i here sarah goes oh my gosh you've gotta come down and watch this this is crazy and i saw it and here's the thing are you type by the way do you just go or do you wait you ask what is it no i go right away i could just go alright that's the time guy right there so here's the thing listen i tweeted about this right away people were like well what would you do the truth is maybe the same thing i maybe would do the same thing but that's wrong and if i would have right up there a bitch slap chris rock i would've been tackle to taken it away and he should too that's what should've have happened i wanted to see him tackle and taken it away or at least not allowed to be on stage for five minutes to it it accepted award that is ridiculous to me i cannot believe that happened greg give me your where were you what was your initial reaction so my girlfriend text me and she's like you're not gonna believe what just happened will smith it just slapped chris rock and then she's like wait i don't know if it was a slap maybe it was a punch and so there was this confusion there was this like five minute confusion where people didn't know what it was so first place i go to is on twitter i'm on twitter and i i i looked at the video and i was like i i couldn't believe it was happening right it was like you remember when janet jackson with the whole super bowl thing yeah like i feel like i remember what where i was with nine eleven i remember what happens when the janet jackson boob incident of the super bowl it's like o j and o smith yeah will smith so i wasn't happy with the videos that were coming out but i found the japanese in australian videos did you guys see those for sure sense uncensored uncut versions yeah yeah and and that one where you got a better view over the punch you know i needed a better view it was a it was a slap though i don't know how good your view was it was a slap it wasn't a yeah okay it was a slap but would bug me about the whole thing and and i'm glad you invited me to talk about will smith because you know that's why i'm here is i think that okay obviously it was a douche thing of will smith to do but i was uni impressed with how chris rock wasn't able to make a joke of the whole thing and he could've made comedic history and he didn't and i expected more from him wow disappointed with chris rock that is not the take i thought it was gonna come that's why we bring greg on from the the when everybody's zig use zag with the new take it's disappeared dude chris rock crazy impressive he took it man he he he he took it he did tear up he didn't like when you get punched in the face sometimes you're not like crying but your eyes water he none of that happened he kept smiling and he was a promo sam you know what happens if you get hit in the side of the head what's the first thing that you feel are here you you you your ears hurt and you wanna like grab your face yeah you you hear this ringing buzz and like the sound you hear this just giant ringing and then you gotta touch your face he didn't touch his face so that you you gotta give him respect for the chin that he shared yeah the round what that was a ten nine chris rock round but then greg's wright actually he had i mean the world was his oyster with all the potential jokes that he coulda have gone with the the one liners like i can't believe i can't believe they had you and ollie or something like that exactly you know i don't even know what the joke should have been you know greg what what direction would you have gone with the joke i would've said and the winner to the biggest bitch lap award twenty twenty two goes to william smith yeah exactly could've have given him the oscar for bitch lap of the year wesley what would your take though okay so i'm i'm outside of a cold stone just gave my daughter some ice cream we're trying to get back to the car i don't know if you know what it is getting kids in the cars like that's the battle every day that's that's the battle in fact there's a great louis ck joke where he's like the greatest moment of any father's day is the like thirty seconds from when you close the door and you have them in the car seat and you walk around the car back to the driver's car it's like the thirty seconds of piece that you have in that moment that's everything so i'm trying to get in the car and my wife has stopped she's stunned she's doing the like oh my god face looking at her phone almost a it was like a cartoon character and i was like what it can't like whatever it is it can't be can't be much and then she was like no wi smith just punched chris rock i was like what and so then i watched the video she made me pull over we'd were driving i pulled over to watch the the japanese uncensored version because we just had they like debrief it in the moment and i was team will smith i thought it was awesome frankly the only part that i thought was not cool the only part i thought was not cool was that when they first said the joke he's laughing at the joke so bro you can't laugh at the joke admit that it's funny and then basically two seconds later build up this rage and then pretend it was so not cool when it was you were laughing like we caught you on camera laughing wait two days before that you don't think that he should have any consequences no no i didn't say that he should have cuffs sure okay sure lock them up throw away the key whatever you gotta do no jail times i don't even think i'm not i don't even want i don't want hand handcuffs i don't want jail just like a hey will you can't hit someone you gotta leave like that would've have been that would've have been sufficient well the thing they showed on the in the yeah don't know the taiwanese sent cut they had the the commercial break i don't know if you guys saw this somebody comes running up to him i think oh wow they're gonna be like dude what the fuck when you get get you out of here sorry it's his public assist just immediately giving him notes on how to out play this and so when he goes up for his speech what do you know the first line he says is you know richard williams was a fierce like protector of his family that's the public handing them the feeding him the line of how how are you're gonna spin this to your advantage who hates a guy who protects his family and i think it worked the i watched his speech i think he's losing it so in a in a way i feel sorry for him i i definitely feel sorry he looked off right he looked a little off he looked like he's kinda he's getting a little little something's going on and i hope he could i hope he works through it and gets back and also there dude him and his wife man that's some weird stuff like what's going on like hey did you see that thing called red table that her show where she just like did a whole show with him on there talking about how she cheated on them and everything like that and then she went to show but i watch everything that's trash like that so yeah i saw it i saw it twice man so like that's weird to me a little bit so there's like a butt this dynamic is is weird he's got a lot of pressure on them i think he just kinda snapped i think he's working through some stuff but dude but so i feel love everybody everybody knows a couple that's like this where they're like kinda toxic they're like toxic in love with each other it's like they got some weird bonnie and clyde shit where they're like they kind of like they like make the wrong decision sometimes they even like you know hurt each other's feelings but then they're like if anybody else ever tries to en cro they like will murder for them and it's like bro where's the balance here where it's like us against the world they love this like us there's these us against the world couples and they're definitely one of them yeah it was messed up do you wanna talk about alex her her mo yeah what did you do you were like bro going deep on alex from mo i was like we are so would have been nice to do before we had him on the pod you do it like episodes later i had a call with him today greg do you know who this guy is i don't know who's at alright actually i feel bad i can send him a friend but i don't don't know if it's pronounced mo or mo alex her mo is it no mo alex like her mo it's one of those things where it's like toot like you've known him for a decade yeah and it's like you can't ask him down no you now you gotta be like oh i just call them m might just go by mas because it's one friends dude one of my best friends named to steve i don't even know how to pronounce his last name so and i've been best friends with them for ten years using in my wedding so anyway this guy alex so basically he had this company called gym launch and it was really interesting because some people and i wouldn't call myself totally on that side but i understand it is the appeared a little scam but actually i don't think it's scam me at all anymore he ended gotta describe the guy's look first so he's got he looks like a straight version of the construction worker in the village in the village was the village people i mean he looks like a construction worker so he wears flannel he's got this beautiful thick mustache long awesome hair like a like a persian samson and he is just yolk he's jacked he's huge and he's like good looking and he just he's like looks like arnold sw a little bit and he created this business called gym launch and basically you would pay either four thousand dollars for one thing or twenty thousand dollars for another thing and it was for people who owned small gyms whether that's across a gym or a personal training gym and he would basically teach you how to make your gym better because he owned gym and he would promise you something like you'll gain at least seventy five thousand dollars in new revenue but for a lot of people he averaged that they would improve by two hundred thousand dollars in revenue but the business model that he had was crazy and the results were even crazier so the business was but by the time the business was four years old he bootstrap it and had paid himself forty five million dollars in dividends and then on the fifth year i believe he sold it and he netted something like fifty or sixty million dollars and so he was like yeah i paid myself forty five million dollars so i had about twenty five million dollars just in cash in the bank then we sold and i netted like another fifty and that story alone is crazy is that right sean i don't know if those exact numbers were right it sounds like you talked to him so let's go with that i i don't really know but but yeah but you you got the the the product right the the the the kind of the the hook or what's interesting is most gym memberships are like you know pay twenty dollars a month and you get into a membership and like it's hard to sell people that and what he was ended up doing was he was like alright well people don't want a what do they really want they wanna lose weight they wanna lose weight in six weeks or less they wanna lose weight so they look good on the beach alright so i'm gonna basically sell you a program that's going to make you look good on the beach in six weeks and he like he he got good at selling for his own gym where he's like oh i can get people to pay like three grand up upfront for like a fitness training package with nutrition meal plans and stuff like that and then someone pointed out to him i think like russ b or whatever the funnel guy pointed out to jim like hey dude instead of just opening gyms and doing this yourself you should just teach other jim owners how to do this like that's a better product is helping a gym like add a hundred grand in revenue in thirty days is a better product than like trying to open your own gym and use that method so then he started doing that and then that's kinda how he went now he own something called acquisitions dot com he'll like buy business if you're doing that i don't know five million dollars or more revenue supply well so he's buying course businesses and like applying his methodology and so but basically what he sold was and this is where things got i went deep on i was like how did this work this is crazy so he basically sold not a franchise but like an operating system and so he used hubspot as his back end and he would get people to sign up to these ads that he was running and you do boarding and you pay twenty grand and you get four months and then after the end of four months you could decide to stay in part of the group and it's forty five grand year but you get this after you sign up you get this checklist of things that you have to do so it's like raise your price to this sign up for this software use these emails the shrimp campaign get them get this many people to sign up by doing x y and z here's the ad campaign that you can just copy and paste and already use and then he had a facebook group where all the members could talk and that was it that was the business it was super simple and it was doing tens of millions a year in revenue and also tens of millions in profit and i thought this was crazy fascinating and i wanted to ask you guys what other he told me a little bit but what other niches would you use this for and also does this model even an interest you it it seems pretty amazing to me i've never heard of it i think that if you did this for agencies like digital agencies that this is a no brainer so you know we're i run a an agency called late checkout we're about fifty people so we're starting to really hit some scale and you say your revenue i mean i don't want say my revenue okay we have fifty people so you can do some of the math yourself i will say that yeah we work with some of the biggest brands in the world and it's very lonely to be like this ceo of an agency like i don't know if i'm over charging or under charging i don't know if i'm you know you know doing the right thing should i be doing more marketing less marketing so like would i pay two five ten grand a month to for like something like this like probably if the roi is there yes it's basically a sales machine right so what each what do you said was if you have a business and you have whatever number of customers you have if i could get you more customers that's clearly a value to you and i think he basically tried to get like capture ten to twenty percent of the value that he was giving so you know if if i'm gonna if i'm gonna generate a hundred thousand dollars in new incremental sales for you how do i capture ten to twenty thousand and i and i'm taking the risk if i don't do that then i don't earn anything i think that's kinda how we started it at least and so agency is a perfect one like that because every client you sign is cash in the bank and typically the agency might be good at one thing but not necessarily good at doing and getting new clients so what what you just read this guy's book sean alex's book i'm reading right now what what do you think about it the book is good the book is good i it's basically a it's like a marketing book right so it's a it's essentially a marketing book he does a good job of breaking things down being simple it's not altogether new information but but who gives a shit it's like it's good information presented well and if you're running a business right now it'll help you now the thing i think that he over indexes on is like he uses like the gym launch example really hard so it's like yeah this is this is clearly he he talks about basically he says you the secret to sales is make somebody an offer so good they they'd be stupid to refuse you okay how do you do that it's like how do you get them to perceive that there's a lot of value and that they're gonna get in a short amount of time with a with a with not a lot of cost and that it's highly likely to happen and so his model was like hey jim owner i on a i've worked with a hundred gyms on average i could bring them each a hundred thousand in new new sales i can do that for you in thirty days and if i don't do it i don't if i don't hit that mark i don't get paid how's that and so yeah that is what he calls a grand slam offer because it's gonna work and if you if you have a grand offer you can win a lot of business you can grow very fast but i don't think that works in a whole bunch of other product categories so i think it works in the like agency consulting world which is where he was it services i think it it works services call service but you if i'm selling shoes online it's very hard to create a grand slam offer for selling shoes because you know i can't tell you how much more money this is gonna make you right it's already the offer is a lot like i'm telling you it looks cool you know that the people might like your shoes that's just fundamentally less compelling so i just think it's like really really good for a service business especially a service business that's in in the business of helping other people make money but like if like for example i wanted to send it to my accountant it'd be like hey you're charging me like five grand or six grand a year you should really be charging fifty grand and if you did this method i think you would have you know like ten times more clients and make ten times more money off them if you presented your stuff this way because you're an accountant you're saving people money on taxes you could basically offer a no brainer offer like this and take more value and grow your business faster if you did it this way but it doesn't work for everything it's kind of the the takeaway i think the pit i think the the pitch is is taking a consultancy from a consultancy and turning it into selling luxury like that's the opportunity for a lot of these people right like i think when you look at mckinsey mckinsey is and a consultancy to me mckinsey is selling like a luxury multi dollar contracts like that you you're buying confidence when you're buying right a luxury product yeah that's exactly right he talks about that pretty extensively in the book but i got so i i have reading this book and i have two kinda like my two like my right hand in on my i left hand man i have i've been and then i have this guy andre and i told him was like guys this good stuff in this book that we should be using so i created like a little mini book club inside of our company to do this have you guys ever done like have you have you basically and i've been wanting to do this with podcast as well sometimes i'll listen to podcast that's like fucking amazing and i'm what i wanna do is just stop listening to it myself and be like hey guys we're gonna do a meeting but the meeting is us listening to this podcast and every time they say something good i'm gonna pause and we're gonna talk about it and it might take us like six hours to get through this one of hour podcast but i'm telling you it's gonna be we're gonna actually apply the thing versus just i share the link you read it i read it we each kinda move on with our day and we're busy have you guys ever done anything like this to like get more juice out of the out of the fruit i haven't i haven't i've done a book club that i feel like book club is it's like you know a lot of people go the gym it's like you start going the gym and then you kinda like stop like it's really hard to create a really well designed book club that keeps people engaged yeah we did book club but it's the same thing no one fucking finished the book so i actually think if we all just listen go podcast together it might be a lot easier a lot easier it's like when you go to school and the teacher brings in the tv that's like how i would feel going to this meeting i be like oh hell you we're rolling in the tv i mean tv magic school bus baby the yeah at amazon they do this too or like people write all kinds of docks inside companies like memos plans whatever and then it's like hey did you read my plan and then you're like oh yeah either i kinda did or i didn't very rarely is it like i read it i remember it i took notes on it and i'm ready to take action from it and so at amazon they basically hack that process which is the rule is you have to write if you're gonna make a plant if you're gonna try to do anything you have to write your memo but the memo gets read in the meeting itself so every meeting if it's an hour the first ten to twenty minutes are silent reading everybody reads it together at the same time and there's zero expectation for you to ever read something beforehand or after was that like banking itself oh yeah it was it was huge like and also while you're reading your you know you're taking notes because you know right after this reading period ends and twenty minutes it's like it's a bit like school it's like i'm gonna have to have something to say right like i need to have i need to be bringing something to the table from this and so yeah that was huge and i think i think way more companies should do that it was like one of the few big company things that i was like this is a process that is so much better than what i used to do at a at at our startup yeah well i think that podcast idea you just had is actually fantastic cool we lost greg craig for a second but let's let's keep going did you have more on her mo or you wanted it to go on no that's it what do you i was thinking about doing a like a kind of like a summary slash lessons learned because i have a whole bunch of like screenshots and highlights from the book i might do a separate pod that's just that if you wanna do that down i just i just i just bought the book i've been watching a lot of a youtube videos to just something about this person he's very interesting to me he's very interesting he's so transparent to the point where it's weird almost like i'm it's like i i like he reveals so much i don't believe you no i believe him i believe him for sure but he's revealing so much that i'm like are you sure man you wanna be talking about this this is crazy like you like it's just weird it's just weird right i mean he talks like i don't think it's weird i think it's smart and that's why i say like do i believe this it's not that i think he's lying about anything i think he's telling the truth it's that when somebody is that forthcoming it's sort of like well what's in this for you and i think clearly it's i'm trying to get you to trust me and so i'm going to be like kind of like explicitly transparent about something because i there's a there's a motive behind that and i think that's okay but i think a lot of people are like wow thanks dude for the favor it's like there's no favors people do things because they have a motive they wanna build their brand in a certain way they wanna attract more more readers or viewers or they're trying to build trust in a way so that they can get some advantage you know that's okay i think that's a a good thing i i do it too i it all the time yeah yeah i've got to know him over the past few weeks i'm a fan man i'm a fan of alex but what do you got well actually we should so greg i i told you bring three or four bullets i don't know if you had time to do that but i i have some if you don't have any but i'd like to use yours if you do because you're here you're the guest on i mean i always have a a notes file with some ideas i can tell you i'm not gonna say they're great ideas but let's let's start with and i i love your feedback alright let's do it so went a restaurant two nights ago saw that a bunch of kids were playing these like picture like an apple b's and picture a bunch of vending machines like you know those games that you can play i'm thinking n t vending machines so you have to pay like a hundred dose to get in you can win a board instead of winning you know collectible you're winning digital assets is there a business to be created around that you're talking about the thing where you would like the the old way is you you know you put your quarter in and there's a bunch of plastic balls you get one out you got this little shitty toy and it's like think in japan they call these the gotcha games is that right like gotcha mechanic where you have this sort of variable reward you might win the good thing but do you almost never win the good thing and then you kinda of keep wanting to open up these boxes and see what you get exactly that but with do and winning and n entities inside greg do you own any n entities are you on board with us or no yeah i mean i've got hundreds of n entities that's crazy yeah i think the problem is do i think not enough people own do you know so i i kinda feel like it's like you need to apple pay to quickly like instantaneously by do and then use it use it in the game basically like you need some way for their phone to just buy the thing and then just keep swiping their phone but i guess like what i'm particularly interested in here is like what are you know in real life experiences that you can create that connect with crypto yeah another version of this by the way because i don't need a restaurants anymore i just deliver everything so it's like you know a qr code that comes with door that i just scan and i get to play the game on my phone right like why do they need to buy a screen when i carry a screen in my pocket so like really all you just need is qr code to do this game you don't even have to build the you don't even have to build the vending machine necessarily it's true it's true alright i got another one so i moved out of my apartment december fifteenth it's now march twenty eighth and my landlord hasn't returned my security deposit alright is that in america or it's in florida where yeah miami oh there's a bunch of laws around that california well there's laws around it in in florida too and i googled it and there's a whole process you can go into it i'm sure it's probably not as intense california but you know you have certain rights there's a whole process so you have to go and eventually you go to small claims court etcetera etcetera what how much was it it's a few hundred dollars but it's just like the pain to like go through it it's not really worth it my security deposit is fifty seven hundred dollars so what i really wanna do is scare my my landlord basically right that's what i wanna do so i wanna i i need to get his attention that's what i really need to do so i googled you know sending a lawyer letter i didn't wanna call my lawyer because i was like at seven hundred and fifty dollars an hour or whatever right it's gonna cost like two grand for this lawyer letter so the idea is a ninety nine dollar lawyer letter on demand go scare go scare someone basically what do you have you scary letter i it so listen we gotta talk about this sean you know where we're where i'm gonna go with this right do not pay you don't pet court oh i like penn court do not pay i'm i'm go do not pay great have you not heard of do not pay yeah so is is do not pay that service i like if you have a parking ticket you like send it to them and they like they deal with it and you get a percentage of it back or something like that they do a bunch of stuff but that is one of the ways how they started how do you explain this company now sean now that it's kinda of they have so many features yeah i think it's start it basically it's a it's just trying to save you money from shit that you you shouldn't have to pay for you don't wanna pay for so it started with like subscriptions you're not using alright cool unsubscribe me from a bunch of subscriptions i'm not using then it became yeah then they also added you know like go can test this parking ticket because like out of know twenty or thirty percent of parking tickets are like filled out incorrectly you actually shouldn't have to pay and if we save you money we will keep a little bit but it's just you did not work and you'll get they just keep a portion of the savings that they get that they earn for you and then they expand into like eighty three b election like hey we'll do that for you for your startup so they're just like trying to do they're basically just trying to eliminate the busy paperwork that nobody wants to do and they're like we'll just take care of that shit for you how would that feel and a bunch of like people like us we're like millennials who are like i just don't know how to do it i don't wanna do it i don't like printing things or going to the post office and like doing all this shit yeah please take care of this for me so it's a time saver company is how i think about it greg i had a landlord i had a sixteen thousand dollar deposit this was for our office when covid shut or our our office lease just so happened to end right around when covid was happening so we got really lucky and we just canceled it and this guy would not give me the sixteen grand i found out dude i got crazy out i found out where he lived and i showed up at his house and he wasn't there i found out where he worked and i showed up there and he wasn't there and i used do not pay to send him like a like a letter and finally he got back to me he was like oh yeah you know just slipped my mind like he was like no big deal about it i was dude i been how in you for six weeks man where is this money and so they they have that feature or you you just send a scary letter you send a scary letter and it worked and so we we i got my sixteen grand but legally you're supposed to get sixteen grand plus interest which i did not get and i i thought about like fighting over this just out of principle because i love petty shit so i feel like the idea is really you know do not pay obviously is getting really big it's like the un bundling of do not pay and it's taking this idea and it's like okay i'm gonna run a bunch of google ads against like getting security deposit back florida getting security deposit back california and i think there's a big business to be created here because then that's a that's a good wedge to sort of expand a bunch of different services and i think there's the other version i think we we've once said which was like call my politician there's all these things where it's like oh this bill could get passed that's bad for to holders make sure you call your politician and and let them know you don't want this it's like i don't know and i didn't wanna call my politician and like who what what if they pick up what am i gonna say you know like there's like there's all kinds of problems with this idea of calling don't like calling what happens did they pick up you know i i really wanna go down that road but i would happily you know sort of tip you know ten bucks to just have someone annoy the shit out of my politician about this issue that i care about like if my donation funded like eighteen annoying calls like if there's just a website that said would you like to dip donate ten dollars to the cause and that will fund eighteen annoying phone calls from sri lanka to this politician i'd be like fuck yeah put it down for twenty and so i think that's the other version of do not do not pay is like go hassle for me that's awesome i'm on forward with that can you are or what else you my other one i it relates to law actually a little bit so you know we've been and then and sean i know you're into crypto so been spending a lot of money on you know crypto accounting and crypto law firms and i think that there's an opportunity to create a web three crypto accounting firm and a web three crypto law firm but all you have to do is basically you find an existing law firm that understand securities law and you're like hey you know you you you're you're shop of ten lawyers and you're like you know you understand securities law maybe there's some you know up leveling in terms of learning specifics about n entities etcetera i'm gonna be the like marketing engine for you you know use things like the milk road and use things like late checkout and i'm gonna send you leads so the customer is happy because they're like wow this is like a web three related you know law firm and i wanna work with someone who's what does that mean i don't know what you're using you're using words that i don't have no idea what they mean what is a web three related law firm me okay so let's just say you're creating an n project but you wanna make sure that you don't go to jail so let you don't do any sec violations do you feel comfortable calling up your regular lawyer who's might not even know what an n nxt is or would you specifically wanna talk to a law firm that lives in breathes web three it depends if they have what's like for example if i what what's the term if i follow something my lawyer says and they're supposed to be the expert and i get in trouble sometimes i can like blame them what's that called i god i can't remember that i can't remember but scape yeah no that it's like a it's like a it's like when you hire a seat time it's like when you hire a c if if you hire a cpa and your cpa screws you like blatantly sometimes you're not always you you can you you know that goes that you're taking to account like dude i thought he was doing it right he's a cpa so like your cpa can actually get in trouble not necessarily you so it depends if that lawyer has that but i don't know i'd rather just go to a legal for a lawyer that's special yeah that's specializes in this thing but i don't know why you'd call a web three he's described but he said a web three law firm yeah like they specialize and they they know the laws around they specialize you meant like around this a web three not a digital law firm yeah okay yeah all this is is like i mean this is a marketing challenge more than anything and you know one of the hardest problems about running a law firm is you know or an accounting firm is getting clients yeah and and we talked about this with the agencies the same thing is true with you know law firms and in county firms i think you know i don't know the i like i i don't know the margins of some of these businesses but i imagine they're quite big so i think there's something there so i consider doing this with my before i did the milk road i was like i i wanna do like i got this audience that's growing right it's like twitter's twitter's is pretty big now i got on a quarter million followers newsletters growing i could just like you know make no money off this that's fine how big would you do my ads in the newsletter that's what's that how big was the newsletter it was like at thirty forty k something at the time what's in there i i yeah before mil and and i was like i could teach a core course so i did that i taught of cor so i like alright that's cool it makes way more money than ads but it's more effort and then i was like you know what's like the highest value business what's like the best fucking business and i was like so i started making a list of like places where i spent a lot of money that i feel like they're just kind of like rinse and repeating the same stuff for me and so i i i narrowed it down to two i'll give you the second best one was accounting and i was like i could just start a bookkeeping firm for for startup entrepreneurs just in my own portfolio if i i invested in forty five companies last year just within that i bet i could get fourteen clients of just companies that don't have a bookkeeper because most companies don't have bookkeeper so right the pay you were considering starting a bookkeeping service that's like the idea thing i could do for you that's a horrible great i was just gonna be the marketing front and i wasn't gonna operate it i was just gonna buy or hire like a good bookkeeper and be like cool you're gonna do the books and i'm just gonna send you clients and you just close the clients and we split this fifty fifty or whatever and so that was one idea the the better idea is insurance because insurance is like the best business of all time and because for insurance you'd only really do insurance you just broker the insurance with another like carrier basically and and most businesses don't have most like especially like commerce businesses you need business insurance and you don't know like i didn't know exactly which insurance i needed how much how much coverage i wanted most traditional insurance firms don't cover e commerce which is insane to me and so i was like alright well i could just do that and so that was another one which is you know startup slash ecommerce insurance was another one i i basically did the math and i was like i could make so much more money doing that than if i ever did like ads in my newsletter my if all i did my ad was saying hey by the way don't go to jail you should have a bookkeeper you know like hey don't lose your business because somebody you know whatever choke on a button that what what was your math the insurance what was your map that first of all i think that's i think you made one hundred percent the right move doing what you did because those businesses do not fit your skill set or mine at all of like it ensure like bet like being on top of things like crazy amounts sweating the details but you're assuming need to run i'm not gonna run it you you're gonna be gonna find a good person you never run patties and the leads but alright so what was your math behind it oh i don't know i have to pull up all the spreadsheets but basically just with my existing audience size i think it netted outwards like i could be easily clearing you know three to five million dollars a year in profit if i like kind of like hit hit all my marks tell me more about this this is actually really a full full capacity this is actually really interesting so what we good to call it like sean insurance lo was the name gonna be something that i don't know name was the last thing on my mind okay so i even talked to the i i had this one low one accountant who i really love there's just like ukrainian woman who is like this like amazing account she was the first account i talked to that felt like they work for me and not like as a they weren't just like a na and so they were like she was like have you thought about this you know like does your business need a vehicle because i think right now just last week of the year if you just bought a vehicle we can actually like depreciate that and use that against your books here like she was giving the ideas that were completely legal but she wasn't just sitting there and saying yeah if you give me all your paperwork and your receipts i'll i'll file your taxes for you it was the first person was saying wow you're paying a lot in taxes over here and over here let me just make sure i'm you know saving you money and so that was the first so i was gonna basically talk to her and be like hey you do this like do you wanna do this do you wanna like leave start your own firm i'm sure you're scared of all that but guess what you gonna just do the things you're really good at which is doing people's you know like tax strategy and accounting and i will get you all the clients that was you know the core premise but of course i i went down i said i created a free crypto newsletter because i just figured it'd be more fun dude i think these are great ideas by the way i think you made the right decision but these are this is crazy i wish you would have told me that your point tell you about a a fucking genius idea that came out of that so have you i don't know if you've ever like onboard well like you've probably done some onboarding with some some software that you're trying to use some company you're trying to use so for example with this with this bookkeeping company right the one hire eventually hired from my e commerce thing they sent me this like super long checklist it was like alright great excited to work with you do these fifty four things and then we'll get started like that'll will be the start of your journey i don't get you to the starting line it's like go to shopify give us access to do that you need to go to view accounts permissions add us there add us as a bookkeeper blah now go quickbooks do the same now gonna stripe do the same now go bank of america do the same thing like there was just all these fucking steps it's like then send us this then send us this and it just felt and it was all done in excel right so i discovered this start basically takes that process and just wraps beautiful user experience around it and i saw it and i was like this is so smart i invested it instantaneously didn't have a meeting with the founder i was like i totally buy it in fact any word you say is only gonna make me less bullish on this idea because i am already convinced this is like one of the best ideas ever seen so it's called doc so it's doc dot us i don't know if you guys have have checked this out and julian julian shapiro sent this to me after i was like seeing this problem and then coincidentally he sent me the same idea so so here's how it works so basically it just creates like kind of like a notion space so the company who's trying to onboard you they just create this thing that's like it's like this is just a beautiful experience so it's like hey sean so glad to have you on board first three things we need to do are these three click the check box when you're done with them so i'll know that you did it if you have any questions just put it in the comment thing here or click this to watch our tutorial from our library that we have about how to do it and so it just turns that like back and forth email or like excel spreadsheet like jan thing into like like workflow for a client and and a service to like onboard each other and i was like dude that's a problem that like i don't know like i don't know two million businesses a year to have with every one of their clients this is gonna work i think this is gonna work what do you guys think of this idea brilliant i love i just i just got a a mortgage after my landlord stiff anything and you know i go into chase his website and i don't know if you've done this but you go gun chase website you go to a mortgage and there's like a thousand things to do plus you're like transported back to nineteen ninety six because you're in this like weird thing there's like javascript breaking everywhere there's like you like forgot about flash and like flashes somehow in there my my my banker calls me and just like you didn't finish this one thing and i was like what she's like i added it to your client portal it's like dude i don't get a notification i don't i don't go check i that place i fucking that place yeah so yes yes this is one of those no brainer ideas i i hope that they they actually embed like create an sdk they they do okay i i i i i think that i don't know if they already do or they're going to pay that was like a big part of yeah i was like this can live inside of your app or whatever so you you know you you could just kinda like onboard people right there inside their experience this landing page is beautiful this is a beautiful website yeah so it is absolutely beautiful but i have a question for you for you guys because it it relates actually to to this and also jim shark and even the the lawyer stuff which is you know sometimes when we're creating businesses you can do one of two things you can either like create something brand new which is like this or create like a new gym like a new way of you know doing something or you could like help existing people you know do some marketing make some money that way do you guys you know and the silicon valley way is is very much like go raise a bunch of money and invent something new and it's really frowned upon to do you know the marketing piece of it and sort of positioning on top of it what are your thoughts and you know do you think about that a lot you know because i've been thinking about it a lot say it again get give us two i'll give you an example give us two so you know my last company the founder of twenty four hour fitness invested in my company and he told me that before the nineteen eighties there weren't membership based gyms like it was a new thing and he invented the first one and it became twenty five hour fitness i think they sold for three or four billion dollars it was a major success and then there's a lot of people who copied membership based gyms that's an idea of going zero to one creating an absolutely new product whereas what he could have done was created a gym shark of that era or whatever and consulted jim yeah exact gym launch sorry and consulted to you know add additional revenue to existing you know trainers etcetera so the question is do you know how often you are thinking about creating something brand new versus you know just kind of a money making additional marketing layer on top of sam what do you think about that i don't think i think of anything that i think of i don't think any of it's brand new i think zero close to zero i think about that do you agree sean no i think there's sometimes new things but it's extremely rare it's extremely rare extremely extremely rare but i would even argue that most anything that's new you could probably actually say oh well it's just like a different version of blank you could trace back right so like let's take a airbnb for example airbnb was clearly like kind of like this breakthrough product became this huge success and it's like the category killer area the category leader for sharing economy whatever and if now it's like bigger than hotels like than all hotels or whatever so it started off as a french thing but there was like couch surfing before that and like that was like a product that did very similar thing you know in vr and there's there's other stuff that's like around it so i i think you're right that it's very hard to do something completely original but let me frame it slightly differently which is it seems like what greg is almost saying is like do you want to go for try to try to have either a new behavior or an existing behavior or another way of looking at it would be do you want to create a product or do you wanna have a service company right like it's kinda to me that in those examples it's like twenty five fitness was a new it was like a new product you needed customers to go by versus servicing you know trainers and and and whatever whoever else that was that's like a service business that's gonna have great cash flow and doesn't require you to have this like winning brand and new product and new customers from scratch is that is that kinda is it more about the services versus product is that exactly yeah i think you know sean and and sam like you know having spent time in s i feel like when i got s i was all about new behaviors that was really important to me and sean i know that was true for you too because like blah you're always pushing you know the envelope with like you know and depot is like new you know is there you user interfaces and like new friend finding and new just like new ways of doing things versus now that we're in our thirties it feels like we're doing less and this is just an observation and correct me if i'm wrong but it feels like we're doing less of like the new behavior type stuff and more of like hey let's just like iterate on this thing and like focus it on this niche and and do that there's this guy named roger dick i don't know him i think sean knows him right yeah i never met him i think greg actually knows him oh right so i don't entirely know his full background but he used to do like a bunch of high tech stuff he i know that he had the what's the startup up that helps you code stuff it's like a new age new agency what they called those are the g gi gig gi okay and before gig greg what was he doing he was doing something like very traditional silicon valley right i just know him from twitter but yes he was doing he was the c founder and ceo of gi which was which which was huge but he did it through a really interesting way i think he did it through search lab do you guys know what his search lab is yeah and but i think before that like he maybe was at z or something like like a like he put he made like a mafia game or something like that yeah like something you made awards right that's what it was yeah mafia award which at which at the time was cutting edge now his latest business i think it's called revolution is it called made made made made and they are renovating bathrooms and as a recent homeowner who needs to new bathroom i went to the website i was like this is sick i love this i've bid and it looks from the outside like the company is just crushing it i saw another guy the guy who started casper his name's luke one of the four founders his name's luke i think he has a new business that's also renovating bathrooms or maybe kitchens and i thought it was interesting that these guys casper not exactly like cutting edge but kinda like kinda new behavior buying a mattress online roger dick you know the definitely new behaviors they're going to like these like older businesses and they're definitely using technology but at the end of the day they're not like re they're not inventing anything new they're just inventing maybe a more efficient process and in my opinion those things are far more interesting and it's kind of intriguing to me that there these guys are doing that as opposed to some new cutting edge thing so so i'll give you my my take on your on your question greg which is in my twenties it's like the way i traveled was i'd be like oh you know fuck it i'll go tomorrow i'll spin the globe put my finger down alright i'm gonna go backpack packing through you know eastern europe or i'm gonna go to australia and i'll be you know sleeping in a van type of thing and i wanted the adventure it was actually the right move to do at that time because it's like how do you get max adventure max sort of like discomfort and like out your comfort zone you know max sp eighty all that stuff and and then like now it's like where is like a sandals resort that i could take my kids and like you know i i just wanna sit down i just wanna a place i can go sit that's not my house and we've is basically the extent of my adventure right now and so similarly like that's my whole my business career was the same it was like at the beginning it's like yeah i'm gonna build the next social network i'm gonna build a a dating app where you you know you might die or know is like these crazy ideas it's like every idea was like trying to be crazier than the last it's like you know and it'll all appeal to me that way and now i'm like cool i could sell a product that i you know i me import a product from china and sell it through a facebook ad i click three buttons i just sit my chair and do that i don't really need a staff i don't really you know i'll just kind of outsource this and that all i just gonna write a newsletter and i'll just write it in my browser and then that's it like i don't have to like become the next mark zuckerberg i just need to get to like enough people where i'm making a few million dollars year and live in a sweet lifestyle like that's that's a win you know and that's a and don't have to manage anybody and i don't have to like stress out about this thing and i don't have to know how to code i don't have to know any of these things oh yeah great and so i basically now i'm in the the sort of sand resort part of my career and i mean that in the best way of possible which was back then i was like almost like intrigued by the degree of difficulty and now i'm completely put off by the degree of difficulty and instead i just do the thing that sounds like what's gonna be easy simple fun for me and and you know i'm just gonna go that route and so i am much less interested in like inventing the next big thing as i am like crafting a dope lifestyle doing something i enjoy do and like telling me feels like but do you think that's gonna change when your kids get older so when your kids become eight nine ten maybe eight to like sixteen they think that you are the cool sky ever or if they don't think that big maybe it's on the other end of you wanting to think that you're cool and you want to impress them and i've been thinking a lot about that lately i'm like do i think that my attitude will change when my kids become five six seven eight and i want to impress them do i think like instead of just like having a sick lifestyle i'd be like man i wanna do something like that they are proud of do you think that's gonna change not because of that reason i do think it's gonna change but not because of that like i don't think your kids think you're cool based on like your business success necessarily i don't i don't really think that that's the the main the main way that kids think you're cool and i even if it was that's not why i would do something i would just have more free time right like when when my kids go to school that's gonna be like a fucking game changer it's like i'm gonna get a third of my day back that you know i don't have today and so when they go to school i have a lot more bandwidth if i wanna do something more intense i can ratchet up the intensity and the difficulty level if i so choose at that time right now like dude before i do this podcast like i'm not i'm not like you know researching every detail for the twenty minutes before this podcast typically i'm like reading this book called goofy adventure to my daughter putting her down for the nap you know like that's how i prepped for this product like twenty minutes before is like i'm literally reading disney books putting my daughter to bed in time to come back out here right so it's like there's a lifestyle i like right now that's doing this and so i'm optimizing for that i think in five years i'm gonna be picking a very different challenge than i'm picking today just because it'll be time for another chapter and i'll probably be like that lifestyle shit's boring i wanna go do something big or i'm gonna be like fuck business business is stupid i'm gonna go like try to ride a comedy show and i'm gonna like try to sell a show for tv like i don't i'm gonna do something else with my life every five years i wanna kinda reinvent myself in terms of what i'm doing so you've come a long way sean so one of the first times i met you you invited me to the be launch party and i i was like could i bring a plus one you're like sure i bring this friend who is visiting and we walk into this warehouse or something in san francisco i remember we had to like walk upstairs and like where was the sean it was in a you know like a car manufacturer our car repair yeah like like a garage just like for car repairs whatever i i don't know i forgot to how to speak english but like basically michael had bought one of those like got rid of all the like car maintenance stuff and just turned it into like his man cave and he hadn't filled it up yet with his his like fancy cars and cool shit yet so it's just a empty warehouse in the middle of san francisco downtown san francisco and we threw our launch party there before you fill in so i'm there with one of my buddies from the small town in quebec the guy never left his town basically in his entire life so you'd land to san francisco staying with me gets into this you know car shop or whatever it and it's like dark and there's smoke and there's lights everywhere and then you walk in and there's all these people and there's lights everywhere and he'd like literally whispered to me and he said is kanye west coming to this did he say yeah said yeah and it was like one of those moments like i'm sure a bunch of people have like watch the social network when it's like justin timberlake is like talking to or i guess it's mark zuckerberg in the club and it's just like it's intense and it's like larger larger than life and you were kinda like living that lifestyle in san francisco not like i mean i'm i'm painting you as very playboy and i won't say you're a hundred percent playboy but in the sense of like you were living that lifestyle you're you were doing that like zuckerberg thing and now you're you know you're kind of doing the complete opposite and my question to to to actually both of you but particularly for sean is if you could redo it would you have done more more of these product bets that are there's it's really less risk like for example milk road like there wasn't that much risk there yeah let's let's be right so like i feel like people like worst now that we're in our thirties we're focusing on different niches and we're taking things that are working different communities and we're just pushing that out there with you know low product dress would you have done that or do you think that you needed to do these crazy bets in your twenties to to to be where you are today i have a very easy answer but i'll let s go first no no go no i want you to go first i wanna hear what you're gonna say playboy sean well as playboy bo shawn by the way for that i flew in this painter that i had met and he did i remember that he did a live painting where he he's painting this like abstract thing he's break dancing while he's doing it and this is a guy had seen at a at a fair in g colorado maybe he years before that and i was like hey dude i have like a like i've i have a company that is like a bunch of funding you wanna just like fly out for this party to do something dope do that thing you did at that little town fair do it in front of a like hundreds of people at this thing and he's doing it and then hit the end he spins the canvas and what look like this crazy abstract thing like was he had painted had a fucking bob marley upside down and it's like he does this like whatever he flips the thing and then he's like done he slaps it with his hand it's full of paint and it was like that was the moment and i was just like that party was dope that was a dope party actually now that remember it so do i regret it well now that i'm thinking about that party no i don't regret it that thought that was pretty awesome i'm glad i did it because i'm happy with where i am now having said that there were so many things that i did foolishly during that time and i'm not just talking about like you know oh you know i wasn't as good at this thing as i am now it's like no like there was so much opportunity right under my nose and i was blind to it and like one of the biggest like scary things right now is like what are those things today that are right in front of me that i'm too stupid to see just like i was too stupid to see it seven years ago when i was doing that other thing for example greg you were in our early mastermind groups and the founders of calm were there and they were talking about how hard it was and how they're just you know it was just alex he was just kind of like yeah it's hard to raise money right now i'm trying and and we were just like dude it's a cool app man i used should stick with it he's like i'm i'm gonna just keep going and like that's a two billion dollar plus company now and we were helping him like dude why didn't we cut the check you were there too i don't know you didn't tell you the kind check either did you i i remember at the time like if i'm being honest like i felt that it was too niche like i was like we were like sean you and i were focusing on like we were doing big stuff stuff that was gonna be exactly one aqua hire later exactly he's he's got the huge choke exactly there was so many of those so in our mastermind itself i think loom was in there that's a billion dollar company and i remember kinda like trying to mentor shy and be like bro like you know that don't worry you'll figure it i this maybe it's not this one but like when you get to your real game you're gonna be like good because of this experience you were friends with them too like did you invest in that like i meant i missed i missed it was called it was it called open test dot c and and that's what loom was originally and it you know it felt like you know when you're doing your first startup up and it just feels so shaky because you're it's your first time doing all this stuff like that's what it felt like felt like and so it was you know and then also the the narrative at the time was don't invest in other people's startups ups you got if you if you wanna make it in silicon valley you gotta give laser focus so i you know my mistake in my twenties was i came san francisco and you know i listened to all these vcs with all their narratives and i did it and if i were to redo it i would frankly just be doing what i now which is just doing like what i'm doing now which is like focused on communities doing agency services you know focusing on niches and and and web you know yeah just build an experiment and not have the big biggest exits in the world i so there there was like ten examples like that like i remember alex mc came over one day and he we were catching up and then he went on to start clear i remember thinking this guy's fucking amazing i should invest in this clear bit thing and i was like went over to his office and we like hung out i was like i have to meet the guys i was like i love the energy of this office man like if i just couldn't do anything besides i feel this office i would be like they're building a winner in here and that's also like i don't know don't know if it's a billion it's multi hundred million dollar and he told me at the end he goes oh by the way i'm buying up i was like what else are you doing finally i started asking more question i was like what else are you doing he's was oh i bought up some striped shares the stripe shares is available for like two billion dollars so i'm buying a bunch of stripe i it was him maybe josh buckle he's one of them and he's like a brian up stripe for two billion let me know if you want in and i was like two billion to me i was like well that's like the most a startup is worth is like a billion is like the top of the mountain and so like to me i was like there's no upside left you know i didn't like think from first principles about like every new stripe was fucking amazing it was like the best start up in the whole like you know in silicon valley and i had this opportunity to go buy stripe here at two billion and i thought how late i was and i was like man i wish i could got in earlier and now like you know the things i would give for stripe shares at two billion now like it's like a that's already like a like a hundred x you know from from there and that was proven right forget that then there was all the services we were using like fe who's by cto he would be like oh this is a cool cool product let's use this in our tech stack if i had just invested in all the bills we were paying for like software we were using like pager duty and elastic search and so you know like one after another those were all huge winners that were pre ipo so first was investing the second was like project selection so you like you're talking about greg i did the same thing i was playing by the rules of like i was playing by other people's rules meaning like what was considered coolidge at silicon valley was to be like a product guy who was building who had a cool product taste and was building like you know like new markets and like going for the the big billion dollar prizes and i met sam who was like i'm writing this newsletter it's free i'm gonna like newsletter action i was like yeah but like are you gonna do a start up someday like that's all i felt about it right the sam's company i sells for more the more than my company sold for in the end he goes he goes look you're good but basically like you're showing up to a knife fight with a knife and i wish you would show up with a magic wand that would just murder the competition i like sounded cool right i was like that's a great analogy that's a cool story but like i don't know babe i think yeah i the math kinda i think it might achieve the desired outcome which i'm trying to do here which when i started i was just trying to be financially dependent by the age of thirty that was the only goal and so so like if i could go back and just whisper three things about like just just strategy like forget life advice just strategy advice i would have said invest in all the smart people you know like it it'll it'll work out if you don't have the money go convince somebody that you have a bunch of really smart friends that they should give you money to invest in that not the first thing the second is invest in all of the expenses on your p and l so go find all the places you're spending money and go try to invest in all those companies that will also do fantastic well you'll make more on that than your own company okay if you really wanna do your own company beyond that fantastic that's great you're gonna build up skills and you got a a lottery ticket there that might work i would have just said like don't try to be mark zuckerberg from the social network like think about what like like basically these open your eyes to the problems and the opportunities that exist today and so like you know whether it was like e commerce or shopify apps or like these sounded small at the time but they sounded small because that's where they were early and like at that time i needed a vc to like stamp their approval that this is a good market or good opportunity which by that time is pretty late because what's the vc doing they're looking at what companies are raising huge rounds which means like four years ago those were great opportunities three years ago those were great opportunities and so i wish i had just kinda been more eyes wide open on like what projects are available to you and like the things that sound kinda of nation funny those are actually better signals for you than the thing that the vc is saying is gonna be huge or is already huge because it's often you know those companies to start or like you're in a you're in an absolute dog fight and it's just like one winner out of a hundred is gonna emerge versus other things where like you could basically take no no product risks no market risk so i had a friend vis michelle tell me this once he goes i invest in companies with no product market fit risk i never heard somebody say that i didn't even make sense to me i what do you mean like every start up is product market favorites he goes no it's not like what he goes he was one who convinced me to buy bitcoin initially as well he was like bitcoin is gonna be the you know the biggest thing in the world he's like i put basically all the money i have at bitcoin i was what the fuck this is like back in two thousand out don't know sixteen fifteen nobody was really saying that back then so for the product market fifth fifth thing he goes he goes for example i just invested in a company that's making a robot that makes pizzas and it makes pizza it makes a perfect pizza every time twenty four seven at a lower cost than a human being can do it he goes i don't know if they can because there's a ton of engineering risk like they may not be able to technically do it but if they can do it there's zero market risk every pizza shop will want this over paying an employee to make imperfect pizzas only in certain hours call in sick and blah blah like for a higher cost and i was like oh shit that's true there are things that have zero market risk and i was taking like maximum market risk before so like that's the other strategy i was like you don't have to take as much market risk the thing you're doing now greg is like way less market risk the thing i'm doing with milk road to had like zero market risk basically and there's just a like there's a lot of money there's life changing money that could be made a lot of fun that could be had without taking on unnecessary what happened to that pizza company i think they're still an engineering risk mode they got like a big contract from domino's but then their ceo got just in trouble for some things that they hired ceo something something something you know like again these are legit engineering risks so i'm not like that doesn't mean they'll all work but like what i'm doing with a newsletter is like neither technical risk nor market risk yeah operational risk it's just are you gonna are you gonna be able or wanting to do it for a long time which is yeah we're just good you know that's a pretty good thing to try to overcome right yeah it's really tough you know i remember coming to san francisco and and hearing all these narratives and these b telling me this and also entrepreneurs sort of repeating a lot of this stuff and i will say it it's tough to go against what these stamps of approvals say to do you know like you have to tell yourself every day like and i have to do that too like when i started a services business all my most of my silicon friends were like a services business like an agency that's what you're gonna do have you know like and you just kinda have to push forward and and really just remember that you know just because some you know certain people on twitter say a certain thing or or or sequoia or in recent say a certain thing doesn't mean you can't have a great like i would say you can have a better lifestyle not being mark zuckerberg than being mark zuckerberg yeah yeah exactly the whole catholic like pro a brown bare in the woods right obviously yeah well what's that a brown bear shits of the woods yeah that's a sam park special that's a sam parts vegetable yeah is that the number seven sample specialist i just ordered because i got does it prompt their shit the woods yeah that's why people listen to this podcast though for a couple of sam sam specials did you what did you is they did i did i just order and sam bars my phone number seven because i think i just got it yeah that's good by the way there i made a joke recently where sean do you go yeah so there's these short traders and i said oh yeah it's totally and you just like totally skipped by it and the people that comments on youtube were like i think the joke was funny but it was definitely funny that sean just ignored him well no people were like dude how did you not acknowledge that absolute gem on time on target you were you were quick with that one yeah it it got no love and the comment pointed it out you're the new chris rock man you're the new chris rock you're a better version of chris rock thank god this is digital he's gonna a bitch left me right in the face dude i can't believe that happen nobody like right for this i'm gonna go see i can't wait to see will smith apologize oh yeah he's for sure gonna come out with something by the way the form on his slap if you look at the photo full extension cross body i mean like do you i've never slapped anyone if i tried to slap someone once i'm not gonna have perfect form that guy has to have slapped before because you don't just wake up with perfect form on a slap like that like the just look at the extension and tell me that's not the best on his twelve thousand slap is the habit eventual slap for man he's fetch guy slack before we gotta we gotta stop this guy before he gets out of control i wonder he definitely slack i wonder as he was walking up the catwalk walk there was like five seconds there so i wonder what he was thinking like was he like you know i'm gonna punch him i gonna lap him like i wonder what was going through his mind i think i been little right now i've done that before to my sister where like i knew i was mad and i started to charge she's was five years old older to than i was like know i kid at the time and i knew i was mad and i had i had a lap i do something but i had no plan and so i had like three steps to improvise the plan i remember this and she'll she always tells a story we were in the kitchen and i was pissed because she made fun of me and i'm five six years old and i was walking and i i'm in the kitchen i just grab a butter knife and i go n misha this is the end i was my statement and like she was like the end of what i was like then and like nobody knows what happened after that we both just blacked out she thought it was hilarious that i you know said like a movie line like a loser and i was holding this butter knife i don't know what i was gonna try to do but it wasn't gonna work she's she could over power me at pretty handle it at that time sean por special alright that's the episode by the way greg you said something don't i wanna i wanna leave with with with greg got my wheels turning even while we're joking my wheels are still turning about what you just said about the narrative here's my challenge each of us what's one narrative that you think actually you should be going counter to that narrative like there's a narrative that we hear as entrepreneurs as people and kinda tech and like what do you think is the like actually i don't know maybe it's this other thing instead so do if anyone has one do it but i otherwise i'll i'll i'll give you one yeah go for it so mine would be i'll give you two there's the inside crypto there's a narrative that's basically like oh there's all this innovation happening this it's like the next protocol the next token the next whatever i'm pretty sure that if you just buy three or four things like if you buy bitcoin eth i put luna in there now just buy those three and you just chill either all of crypto is gonna work and those will work amazingly or crypto is not gonna work and no matter what you did like if those fail if those don't go up dramatically in value crypto just didn't work and none of the shit will work and so i think actually a basically like for a while the best strategy was bitcoin and chill and now it's ethan chill i basically think still the same i think it's like buying two or three tokens and not even needing to know anything more just chilling on those is probably the best investment of the next like ten to fifteen years it's gonna outperform everything during that time i so i think like going deeper down the rabbit hole and like learning more is actually gonna fuck up your returns versus just buying the the the main ones and just holding for for like ten years not thinking about it that's one and then the other is i think that angel investing doesn't make much sense anymore and i say this as somebody who angel invest like the valuations are so high that like if i think about like that same money going into like one of these sort of boring cash flow businesses is so much better for your life so if you're like an individual age investor and you have let's say a hundred thousand dollars you know or three hundred thousand dollars that you wanna go put into like a basket of twenty startups it's like are you sure you shouldn't just buy like like get an sba loan and go buy like some random website that's already producing profit and that'll pay itself off in two years or less and and now you own this cash flowing asset like i'm pretty sure that's just gonna do better did i agree than a basket of angel investment the the the note the our friends who have all crushed it on angel investing you know they means they made their investments five or eight years ago and it was different it is it's outlandish at the moment so i agree with that i think for mind that i think that it's actually i think that i think that you only have a few swings in your career and a lot of people are like oh you should be patient and you've got a lot of time to do certain stuff i actually think you should try you should dedicate your twenties to getting your first significant win because after that life gets a lot harder you get a lot less energy you're a lot smarter which is actually bad you actually it's kinda good to be kinda ignorant and not enough people i think all i'll oftentimes people go the other route where they go well we'll just go join something for a little while and learn in my opinion f that your twenties dedicated to getting a win and getting it it even if it's relatively small and do it as fast as possible because after that life is a lot easier i'll get my what sean i was gonna say give the moist quote about getting rich quick he goes why does everyone hate on getting rich quick get rich quick schemes are the best i wanna get rich quick i don't wanna get rich slow i got i got two real quick so i got off the phone with a friend of mine who works at facebook he told me this morning he told me that he works roughly ninety ninety to a hundred and twenty minutes per day on average i thought you you're gonna say ninety to a hundred twenty hours a week he yeah it's the best when you measure you're working minutes he texted me he texted me today said it was nine twelve am he said nine twelve am finish work for the day twelve twelve minutes and so you know put put us in chat i want him to text every day just the timestamp stamp of which that's what i that's what i told to do i said you need to create like a twitter and non account twitter that's and and so i'm gonna stay tuned do that but i think that in your twenties like potentially go work at facebook go work at google get those high paying jobs i think that by the way i think i think that's a good way to get a win get get you know do that for a few years while you're you know do your doing your your learning on the side like join a dow build a community build a newsletter do whatever you wanna do it would really speaks to you while you're you're not you know yeah so you're making money and you're learning what more could you ask for and then my and you know just because you gave a crypto one sean i think that and and i spent a lot of time in n nxt land and web free land too i think that n nxt are going to ninety nine percent freedom it's gonna be a free freedom in thing i think the the idea of selling n entities will be a very small thing and what okay so what what happens why why would i give away something for free or what's my incentive so what happens after it's freedom me so yeah i mean you know okay so the idea right now it's like people are selling n t's in for point zero five to point two let's say on average for some of these you know ten thousand p projects i think that that's gonna burn out at some point and i think we're starting to see it burnout out a little bit projects and i think that you know did you see the hundred thieves drop yeah they they what did they do exactly did they did a much smaller amount so they basically first of all i was in gaming and gamers hate n t's so the fact that they did a successful gaming n launch like obviously kudos to them but basically they won this championship and they were like okay in order to get this like collectible you can go grab it it's free the we're not saying it's gonna be worth anything and they got seven hundred thousand people to collect this collectible and and there's a right and then they make money on if there's value right so if it grows in value they get royalties and i think that's where you're gonna see a lot of is like creators and and and big communities basically doing freedom even though people seem you know people today think that selling n entities is the future i don't think so right by the way i'm gonna change mine to just simplify instead of starting a company by existing business i think that is the most overlooked obvious thing for a smart person to do is how do you take your market risk to essentially zero you buy a business that's already working and profitable and you just say cool i'm a better operator than this person or i know about a different form of operation than they do and so i can grow this using facebook ads or i can grow this using outsourcing or i can grow this using you know code or whatever it is so you you hear almost no narrative you heard tons of narrative around the genius visionary startup up start a new thing building a new project launching a new thing and like you hear like one or two examples of people buying businesses and i think that for most smart people buying a business is a far better idea than start but when you're in your twenties somebody respect to that like when you're in your let's say early twenties is like do you know like you're saying that now but i think like yeah you do need like that operational experience and that's where my point is twenties you gotta like it's worthwhile to to just potentially take a a high paying job and then on the side kinda like experiment and do stuff yeah that's true i i'm not really limiting mine to the twenties i think i'm still making mistakes of my thirties so i'm assuming other people are too i i guess it's more like what narrative do i hear now that's easy to float along with that i'm like you know what actually i don't i don't think i think this is true and like that's the one for me which is like for most people who wanna be entrepreneurial they default to start a business and i think actually maybe it should be the opposite maybe you should default to taking on an existing business and growing it and only create a new thing if you like actually have a new invention in mind a new idea that really you can't shake in your head versus like just starting a new start i like that because because you wanna be on entrepreneur right alright i think we lost sam we gotta go alright greg thanks for coming man where should people find you twitter at greg is or on our pod where it happens or in the mountains of canada the mountains of canada unless you're the irs in which case he's in my at least a hundred and eighty days at least alright you