may twenty fifth twenty twenty three subject line he said it was a bad business idea dot dot dot emailed out to his whole list i think hey folks alex here telling you telling people you run a mouth tape business isn't in all sunshine rainbows any it does anyone think that that was sun sunshine ramos you know what they said running everyone always asked me like how awesome is this business i feel like got rude where to know why i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on boat alright we'll still try buddy back to the greatest podcast of all time my first million or we talk about business ideas we talk about businesses that are under the radar crushing it that you haven't heard of and hopefully when you listen to this podcast you get little of inspiration you know a little wind in your sails so that you go out and kick a little more ass today sam i haven't asked kicking story for you you wanna hear i love ass kicking stories in fact this is two it it's it's stories of other people who are kicking ass and it's a story of me getting my ass kicked as an investor so here's great two investments that i passed on for two totally different reasons and i'm gonna tell you the reason why i missed it and the really cool story of what what these companies did alright so this first one three year two or three years ago two years ago i it was and it's this guy david and he's pitching me a startup up called jenny and it was at peak ai time so this is twenty twenty one you know gp three was out everybody was excited about ai and this guy had yet had another ai start by idea i didn't really know to make of it it was small it was only doing two thousand a month in revenue so he's like hey we've got great traction i'm at two k mr r and i'm like that's cute son two k r r you know like the pool guys make a two k mr r you come on we we gotta do better than that but really nice guy we get on a call and i don't remember what i said but he told me afterwards is he was yeah you were like one of the nicer people in terms of giving us feedback and tell us what to do at the time they had a pretty un differentiated product so what they were doing was is a product called jenny ai and what jenny was doing was it was a writing tool so it was just like jasper which was like you just say hey i need a blog post it writes you a blog post you need seo content you need blog content you need email content and it was just like writing blogs for you and there was a bunch start doing this at the same time jasper was doing it they were taken off so it was like a kind of a hot space but i was like dude i think you're late to that party and he's was like no we're gonna make it and i liked the guy he told me that at age sixteen he had basically he just started being an entrepreneur age sixteen trying to build companies he's like try to build a t shirt company fam but like you know that's a rite of passage start your first terrible idea he gotten that out of the way and now he was on this which was cool he's like i saw he's like he's your funny story he goes we got on gp two when it was just like developer our access mode only and we told it to like i don't know tell us a joke or say something wise but funny and it's a gp code two goes what's the darkest place in the world and they go what i guess a butt hole and they're like like gosh this thing is crazy what is this tank and so they're like how they all in on this so they start trying to make ideas for this and and how old are they when they start working on this so they're about twenty four i think okay doing this right and he's like i got no money he's living at his mom's house he's like literally i i have to ask my mom like hey can i get the credit card i wanna get chipotle and he's like you know she didn't make me feel bad which i get respect like i know she probably felt bad because like you know asian parents like all their kids all their friends kids are like at stanford and getting a promotion and he's like he's still in the bedroom he's and also like twenty fours is the threshold where it's like cute from concern yeah exactly exactly end to concern he was making that transition and she's like i don't know he just keeps saying thanks for hopping on the call but nothing seems to happen after that like you know he's pitching people all day in his bedroom and it's not working but he makes a pivot and he makes a pivot that that made a lot of sense he did what i call a niche down a zoom in pivot and so a zoom in pivot is when you basically say i have this thing today that's kind of math for everybody but maybe for one set of people it's awesome and this is the same way that actually twitch started twitch was you had justin tv which was broadcast anything it was his grand vision broadcast anything broadcast your life broadcast your backyard broadcast this sports game broadcast this video game and only two percent of it was people broadcasting video games and twitch was a zoom in justin tv was failing and they said what if we just did the video games thing and it it sounds counterintuitive intuitive if it's like well then we'll be too small it's only just that little bit only two percent of our current traffic but it actually had a potentially to be quite big once you specialize the product in that so these guys did the same thing they did it around college students who need help writing essay essays specifically not like oh dude it's like one minute before the deadline just give me a full essay just wanna like hand it into my and make them trick them that it's ai it's like no no it's actually like a writing assistant so you basically you're writing your essay and it you don't just say give me an essay about the industrial revolution you start writing your essay and then it kinda like like i know auto correct it'll kinda like fill in the rest of the sentence so if you're writing it'll kinda like if you stop it'll like suggest what the next couple sentences could be it'll help you site stuff as well so there sources exactly like you need an example online is like is really well is really great so it's the effective of ketogenic diet on human longevity and looks like he's talking about something and it's like hey by the way do you wanna cite this paper that's already mentioned this with that and it generates the well formatted citation at the end or it'll run a pla check for you it'll be like hey let's just make sure that this is not copying what's already out there because you know your teachers is not gonna like that so has a couple of like specific tools and you could it's like a it's not like chat where you're it's just a chat interface like you kinda click buttons and you select what how you want this to help you and then they help you do you know how like microsoft used to have clip who would like catch you making errors they just need like a little picture of bill act that says like that's the exactly exactly we're gonna billy you told me that like basically at they end of the essay sa less than thirty percent has been written by ai so seventy percent is written by the student and thirty percent ends up getting filled in by the ai okay so he gets this idea but even still how do you know if this is gonna be successful so now he pitched me two years ago at two thousand in mr it's currently doing three hundred thousand so three point six million to here in fact last year he had an offer to sell the company i think for three million bucks he thought about it he's like oh my god i can be a millionaire there i can have three million dollars i'm young i mean you know in early twenties and he turned it down and now this company probably worth ten ten to fifteen million million bucks a today so in six six to twelve months you basically you know tripled the value of the company so that's that's great so i talked to him when i was like dude david what's what's the story here what happened like well you know we we talked to you we did we did a bunch things so here's here's kind the story of how they figured it out so do you wanna know the kinda like the startup up survival part of it or do you wanna know the strategy of how they made it big well the strategy i mean to start up survival mode it like he was just probably flounder but he didn't have any expenses so like he was kind of default dead just not even in startup mode but default dead just his life i mean well he was but then actually jason cal incubator launch gave him a hundred k just like over email like here's a hundred k and so then they moved to malaysia to be like this will last forever here and so he's like just let's how do we just make this hundred k last as long as we need to survive because we don't know if there's ever gonna be another investor they they did end up raising more money that they raised like another eight okay later but how did they make this big so i wanna share a couple things so first he's like you know we do the obvious things we we post about it whatever it's not really going anywhere then three there's three interesting inflection for this business inflection one is he does the the the stuff that doesn't scale he goes and he fights for that first hundred customers with hand to hand combat and the way he did it is a strategy that i'll the overall strategy of what what worked here is i'll call influence the influencers so he starts joining facebook groups and he wrote along twitter post about this you can check it out so he joins facebook groups he's like i joined a group of like let's say ten thousand people and he's like what you can't do is join the group and then immediately post about your shit and then it just gets taken down or flagged just like promotion sales get out of here dude so he's like i basically did a strategy where i was like i'm going to warm up these groups so that like if i do ever wanna post how would it be like well received he was would work backwards from what situation would make this be well received he's like well it'll be well received if the moderators and admins like me and they were rooting for me and actually they liked my product they were to use my product and that i was a familiar face in the community they had seen me around adding value and that even when i post i was really posting actually just for feedback and not for like buy my shit so he's like let me work backwards from that so he joins the group and he starts posting just like very helpful content and in a facebook group the bar is pretty low right because yeah yeah nobody's like professionally trying in a facebook people are just very casual most people don't do anything at all this is like like a facebook group for researchers it'd be for like college students it'd be for like grad anything into hypothesis about so he's like oh i think it's should work really well for grad students got it so he joins some schools grad student group which has like six thousand people or whatever and then he would get into what he would do he's first start making it helpful helpful post so he's just very visible and very helpful people start to see him as like a regular he's a regular at the bar okay then he hits up the admin and the admin like oh you're one of the regulars yeah sure what's up he's said hey man i wanted to get your feedback on something would would you be down like a fifteen minute ago i know you talked about this in a previous post i think i actually have something that could help you with that and then the guy would be like alright sure i'll do it so it gets on the call with them me show something of the product and then he's like i'm he's like i'm not gonna promote this until i see the eyes light up he's like basically if they don't like it then i'm dead on arrival not if this if the core power users don't like it the casual guys aren't gonna like it so he's like i'm gonna keep iterating on my product until those guys yeah this is actually awesome and i see that they're using it after the call like they keep using it so he does that he he asked them questions he was like i read the mom test like you guys said these guys are fans of the pod so we learned how to do these customer calls then i'm doing the calls and i'm finding out their pain points and then i tried to build a product that solves them and then i'm seeing do they use it on their own organically afterwards once they did he's like i got him he's like so then i would let them use it for a couple weeks and then he's like i would oh by the way he's also like i'm gonna circle back so i would do the call and he's like a week later he's like hey i took all your feedback and i made the product better which that's like a key part of of like winning users over is making them feel like they're heard and what that you actually acted on what they said finally he'd be like hey do you think i could post it in the group like do you think other people would like this and i'm like yeah for sure actually i'll post it for you and they would go post it so now you get the the kind of like cosign sign from the group admin or moderator that everybody knows the leader saying hey this is awesome i've been using it the founders in the group if you have any questions check this out so we start getting a bunch of traction so you've got the first hundred customers through this like very manual process which was really not as much about getting customers as it was about getting the product right by winning over the customers this very similar much to you doing the first hundred calls with hampton members right like you showed me your calendar and i called it the zebra calendar it just stripes just twenty minute calls all day just like your whole calendar was stripe and guys would read it too by the way i did when when the hustle first got popular because i posted on reddit and i did the same thing i wasn't as eli as he was but i basically just said ten percent self promotion ninety percent add values so people start you start getting a reputation so do did you see that there's a movie about the guy what's his name some roaring kitty who like be the game that definitely so roaring kitty the real person is like a really good looking guy who would charismatic like he looks like he kinda looks like he could be an actor like when you see him talk and i remember watching that moving i'm like dude the real the the real roaring kitty is cooler looking than this actor right i'm looking at david park do this video and i and i'm seeing how he dresses and i'm seeing like some of the home videos that he's taken of himself i'm like this guy looks like an actor playing him do you know what i mean this guy got the it's factor like i can't even it here hear him talk i could just tell the by his body language how he dresses like this guy's got charisma got like the just yeah guys yeah yeah yeah this guy looks he looks like the actor playing him yeah he's like one of those people where if they were like clothes that don't fit it looks good but if you wear clothes that don't fit you look like a fucking idiot he's one of those people who could actually wear clothes that don't fit now let me tell you okay so then here comes phase two get lucky and get lucky is you you know we've done that thing before about the four levels of luck the first one is just dumb luck lightning strikes you the second one which is fortune favors the bold he's taken a bunch of action and he puts himself in a position to get lucky so this there's two lucky breaks that happen the first is this guy's zane who runs a ai newsletter i think it's called super human i think it is super power superhuman something like that he does this twitter thread and it's called ten websites so useful it feels almost illegal to use them or something like that that's not so funny that's right still funny classic like you know click pay thing and this thread goes so viral dude guess somebody likes this thread has i don't know ten thousand three hundred and sixty five thousand dude i could post a sex tape and not get three hundred sixty five thousand in fact i probably won't get any likes but yeah you're gonna ask you can close the six tape but not get three hundred sixty five thousand like what was the joke that you had to like i can't believe what are your friends are porn and it it isn't popular that's like the worst job ever that's like you you released the sex statement don't wants it i was still talking about that later your friend who you as voice it's not that popular and i was like wow the worst scenario how many downloads did he get from or how many users did to get from them so he's like dude every every minute he's like i get ten customers he's like dude was just insane and so he goes he gets like this huge boost like you know whatever i don't know exactly how much but like ten x or more you know is the revenue he's at he's at two thousand before that now so that the first thing i described is how we got to the first two thousand in mr then he gets the viral twitter thing and now we said they're like tens of thousands of monthly recurring revenue so what happens after that jennifer lopez does a commercial that's about ai with virgin air something like that and in the commercial she's like oh i'm not jennifer this is jen ai and so jen it's a bunch of searches he's the number one search for jenny ai and so he's like i got a bunch of free traffic from that that helped again he's like i'm getting lucky but i still don't know what to do to like really blow the top off this thing and then they start posting tiktok now this is what i wanna ask you sam you did a great job early on with the hustle i'm gonna put you on the spot that's gonna be hard you at the hustle did some really cool ads you you basically were like instead of just saying here's my newsletter please read it it's it's very good i promise you were like my boss thinks i'm so smart but what he doesn't know is i just read the hustle every day right and i was like value based right and it kinda had that dead hook which is what is the what is the end happy out happy ending for this customer it's not that your newsletters is great it's that your boss thinks you're smart everyone thinks you're so smart my boss thinks i'm smart i'm not my secret weapon is the hustle which i get every morning that was the ad right and you stole that from somebody and then now a hundred people have tried to copy that i was i wouldn't say a stole but you could say that you could say that don't think i would say that i would say i was heavily influenced by a random ad that i saw from the sci and i changed it and now everyone else has since stole it a jury of our peers would say that so yeah so so this guy now no i want you to tell me if you had to do an ad right you're making it a little a short video a tiktok and you need to promote jenny ai just lost brainstorm real quick right let's do this let's do it live as bill o'reilly used to say right tell me what how what you would think i know this is a very hard prompt but if you come through just imagine how smart everyone's gonna think you are at this podcast good what would you do how would you design this this tiktok at well okay i actually think that i would steal that same premise which is like my teachers think i'm brilliant i'm not i'm really just using jenny ai video's harder so all of my ads were text in a photo on facebook to do this on video that's like what young people are great at that i'm really bad at what would you do for the video i would do that same premise but i don't know how i would struggle to display that yeah watch this by the way if you're watching this if you're on audio and you're like oh my god i really wanna see this ad this ad sounds awesome this is the ad that drove all of their growth i want growth and i wanna learn how to be better at advertising maybe you should go to youtube you should watch this ad with us maybe you should go to youtube and subscribe and then watch this ad with us what do you think sam is that good advice well so listen earlier you're talking about ai and how they were doing okay and how they niche down and found their target market that's basically this podcast we took all of business we took all of comedy we niche shit down to the very few people that actually wanna joke about stupid stuff like us and dissect different businesses and that's how they all work that's this youtube channel so whether you're listening on youtube already or you're on like spotify or whatever go to the comment section there's a lot of people make fun of us but a lot of people actually adding value and like breaking down cool companies click subscribe up brother out so that was our version of this ad let's see this one this tiktok has four million views so the ad is basically it takes a instead of saying my boss thinks i'm so smarter my teacher's thinks i'm sorry it a different format which is what i call the relatable struggle and it starts this is break this ad down so it says it's a girl it doesn't look like an ad that's the first first thing you it looks like starbucks if you want ads to work that is don't make up look like ads that's the the biggest as soon as i see an ad i'm insta swiping away so this needs to be relatable so it looks like a college girl at a starbucks and it says doing an essay last minute my goal is to submit over twelve am it's done two things relatable problem and it's established some some stakes will this person or will they make it well won't they make it right alright that's the thing it's a it's a door closing mission impossible you gotta slide under the door do you i gotta tell you the second thing i've my experience is like fifteen million dollars in ad spend i'm gonna say something right now is gonna make me sound horrible but i'm gonna say the truth here's what i found with my numbers women that are what so women get higher clicks amongst women women gets higher clicks amongst men and men are or rather so so women that are like just women do better amongst men and women for getting clicks so we've always i've always had a higher click through rate with women now but here's the thing about the woman they have to look like you can approach them like i can have a conversation with them but they're aspirational if they're too like good looking or two like fancy looking it doesn't work it has to be an approachable young woman and i found that that gets the most clicks amongst all demographic and they did that they did that wonderfully here but i say that i did i say that appropriately level of nervous in your voice as you're trying to say this without getting canceled you're like you're a fine approachable young woman you're a stabbing laugh young lad like well so we have that it was like it was like a if you use like nineteen forties language you're like if you're a young last who's splendid and fine then then you're it's like dude you can't just avoid cancellation by using old language i would call it next door hot so when whether you're a next door guy or next door girl next door hot always outperformed like beautiful or model or whatever yeah runway hot so that's frame one relatable struggle okay now two is oh and then by the way it says current time ten twenty so here's ten twenty you gotta submit this by by minute midnight last minute research and then it says then it this is the key one ten fifty mental breakdown and she's crying basically like and so now you're like alright you kinda don't know is this gonna be funny is this gonna be like it's obviously kind of like it's planned but it still doesn't look like an ad for any product we're ten seconds in no hint that this is an ad for product then it says coffee and tiktok break relatable says back to it and then it basically is like shit gets serious and it's her like clipping up her hair again another relatable humorous like oh that's so me i get it i do that i'm guilty of this right we're now thirty seconds in and there's been no mention of the product and so this does two things number one the tiktok algorithm that loves that it's you're watching full length videos rather than swiping away because it's like oh this is some mad the second thing is you're kind of invested you have sunk cost you need to see the ending even even once you realize and one of the top comments is it says for a second when you showed jenny ai i was like i got bamboo b by an ad all caps because you didn't realize it was an ad until you're basically what thirty five seconds in and then even then it doesn't it's not some polished demo of the product it's a phone recording a laptop of someone typing in jenny ai into like their google search and then finally it tells you what the product does for you which is it'll help you're two times faster and the happy ending is she submits it on time okay so four million dollars is this how is this how like my my doctor and lawyer an accountant are where they're just like at starbucks at eleven fifty trying to pla dry a paper that's do it midnight well that's how they were eight years ago shit do you know that you went to college with people who are now doctors you're like that guy i know that guy i know the real i know the real version of that guy right like i only drink jaeger mice this guy not be doctor and so right now these guys so that ad was great so david park you're amazing so they're at three hundred and fifty thousand dollars a month three hundred thousand a month so three point six million a year and doing really well so congrats to the jenny guys did great by the way he gets cancer then and he says this in the in that starter story video he goes he's like felt like my dreams and to be true at the same time what's and he got that's a footnote to his story he got cancer he got cancer during that like last year or whatever and then he got a surgery he got out and he's good now and so it's a crazy story dude it's a it's a really crazy story correct by the way i don't think i wouldn't say this is gonna be a smart investment yet so oh i i don't think it's gonna be a good investment but i think it's gonna be great for them if you make six to eight million bucks that's fantastic below before thirty that's amazing you're you're set i i'd like so if i was david this is a company i would love to own this is not a company that i would love to invest in but it's gonna make him very very rich i think at a very young age and it's gonna make him like mildly famous amongst our little start off dude there's a business i would love to sell if i could sell this thing for anything above eighteen million dollars you won't see me then bye see later of god be like wait the paperwork works not even time i don't care by it's over i'm out of here i i ai moves too fast dude i'm not trying to be in the middle of the hurricane of ai and hope that i'm not made obsolete by you know one click chat or some big company adding this i think this is actually fairly protected like i think it's so niche i don't think too many people are gonna go for but i just wouldn't wanna mess with this also think that college student essay writing isn't like the biggest tam either so you know i would wanna sell on the way up and get out and go do something else yeah and also say mom and raised the equivalent of america's gdp like five trillion dollars for whatever like whenever i seen this these numbers i'm like that just means nothing to me i i'm dead by the time this becomes a reality because is there a sam alt store you wouldn't believe no i believe i i would believe at all if i told you the open headquarters is underwater would you be like that's bullshit or would you just be like where i would believe anything about it yeah i'd be like so like you should we scoop up and like go we visit over or like what do we do yeah i believe at all i've got alright i've got a big one i've got a short one i'm gonna give you the short one first and then and then i'm gonna hear you this thing about flow but do remember i'm gonna give you an update and i'm gonna say with preference with this update last time i gave an update on this guy he took that update and he clipped our youtube video and he turned it into an ad and i got super fucking pissed so i just wanna tell you don't turn this into an ad you do not have permission that's dumb it looked like i endorse this product i don't a few years ago i think it was three years ago this guy started dm me telling me he has this idea for hostage tape do you remember i told you about this yeah it's basically tape that you put over your mouth because mouth mouth breathing at night makes you a bad sleeper i guess is the premise yeah it's just gross i don't know what it is but there's some health benefits and he just like got in right when the hub men's and the brian johnson of the world and all this stuff so he he timed it perfectly he told me he was launching this and i was like oh this is this is really dumb the this is the stupidest thing i've seen in a long time and he kept damning me kept sending me updates i think in year one he did two million in revenue now he just told me he ended two thousand twenty three with fourteen million dollars in revenue and then he's saying that this year in twenty four he's like i think i can get forty million revenue he's like we're buying all these ads on joe rogan we're gonna be sponsoring in the u he saved all this crazy stuff and i'm gonna file this under the i cannot believe this worked i still can't believe it's worked and he's totally proven me wrong so far has this guy been sending you updates i've talked to him a couple times about one specific deal he was go drew just trying to help him out by the way may twenty fifth twenty twenty three subject line he said it was a bad business idea dot dot dot emailed out to his whole list i think hey folks alex here telling you telling people you run a mouth tape business isn't all sunshine rainbows it's any it it does edited did anyone think that that was sun sunshine vr you know what they said running out sale everyone always asked me like how awesome is this business it just i whatever said that i recently got call it out on a very popular business podcast called my first million maybe you listened to it anyways i reached out to one of the hosts sam since l my idea he said it was a bad idea all bold that was over a year ago now fourteen hundred reviews a hundreds of since success stories later i couldn't now help a message him again well he didn't go and so he says i don't know what i don't know what the what the thing is oh he goes i thought it'd be really funny if the hostage tape army if you're if you're a customer of this and you're in the hostage tape army i mean none of these words should be going together by the way what's that the hostage the none of these words should be lumped at the same sentence the hostage tape army you know what i mean if that's on your bio like you're out but he he said show in the comments and say hey sam hashtag shut your mouth i like that part that part's is pretty good h tapes shut your mouth i like the good that one's good he goes i don't wanna start a a war but these guys appreciate a good prank we do we really do we do so i don't know if he did do that i'm gonna click this this by the way he's getting the last laugh if his tape is un taped he is getting the last laugh this guy this guy's winning he's making a lot of money people actually want his product i'm wrong here he's right i still think it's stupid though i'm looking at the comments by the way i don't see one hashtag shut mouth sam so i don't think h tape army showed up the calvary did not appear for this one but i think it's funny that he's doing this i think it's great that he's he's winning so god bless him i got so angry when i saw my face on these ads so i started getting these ads and i'm like it's it said like i and i was like oh what the fuck was making fun of you and you just totally me and now i'm promoting you alright you you shared a an l u took i'll tell you about an l take it's twenty it's twenty twenty and i'm getting dinner with a friend and we're only like i wanna say forty minutes into the dinner and he's like i gotta go and i'm like was me was something i said am i chewing too much what's going on why you gotta leave no he's like i hate to leave but i got i gotta go meet with this founder from belarus it was just too at the dinner let's do at the dinner he just bounces this and i'm like belarus i don't know where belarus is but i was like alright that's i i don't know if this is something you know elaborate excuse or what but he leaves so i finish up dinner her go home i see an email for my friend he says sara had a jet so early but this company is really interesting and he tells me about this company called flow and he's investing in this company called flow and he's like if you want in i could get you in and i remember this because today or yesterday i'm scrolling on twitter and i see flow is one of the biggest success stories in consumer startups today a hundred and ninety two million in arr with sixty million active users and it's been the fastest growing health app for like you know four years and i'm like a hundred and ninety two million dollars in era was like why does this app app sounds familiar i go back to look at my email and i see that i could've have invested in this thing years ago had i just replied to this email for my friend what valuation i don't know what it was back then because didn't even reply to ask but whatever it was i should've have done it because you know obviously the thing has been growing so fast that it is you know it's clearly it's become a billion dollar company and it's it's done really really well but this company is really interesting last pod you talked about forgot ammo or whatever it is like some eastern european like app builder factory yeah they make a variety of apps like one's muscle for men and then another one was working out for women while the men the women are on their period well i see your eastern european women's period app and i raise you guess that's what flow is so started by these guys out like belarus lithuania something like that to two twin brothers by the way so the twin brothers one they're raised by single mother who's a librarian and they're like yeah we gotta big money like they're fifteen years old he's like i was going to school and then i would work a full time job after school i go to school for eight hours then i go work for eight hours and that's what i did every day my as a teenager he's like and i just had this like deep like we have to figure something out he's like so i did two things he's like i taught myself out of code he's like i was teaching myself using these like textbooks he's like so then i started actually writing books to make some money he's like whatever i learned i went then package up into a book and i would writing he's like i've written you know a bunch of books and then i started i became a book publisher started publishing think i published a thousand books now so i'm like okay ran like the thing that happened is two thousand and eight and the iphone app store comes out and he's like i think this is gonna be big i think this is gonna be like you know the internet was big there was a bunch of winners i think there's gonna be some here so he's like forget the book publishing let's start making apps and so they start a health app kinda of fails start a second app kinda of fails and people ask them they're like you know would you learn me you was flow your first app he had you no no i started two things before that similar space but just didn't didn't fully hit he goes but i believe the that success is the sum of your attempts exactly those first two attempts that i did for a couple years that is the success of flow and i just love that quote success is the sum of your attempts i think that's amazing quote and so he goes we start flow and they're like so you're a dude building a women's like period tracking app the number one period tracking app in the world like how does that happen i a dude belarus do that i love i love this quote it's not not my job to build the product it's my job to build the company of people that are able to build the product exactly they're like how how do you have the product intuition of building this he and that's exactly he goes isaac like i this is one thing i learned in those first two products was as a job as a ceo as a founder my job is not to build the product it's build the the company that will build these products and that's what they did and so they actually built two things they create this hold c and the hold c owns like four apps that are all super successful so they own flow which itself does about two hundred million a year in revenue and that's what's help so it's basically it started off with just simple like period tracking so it's like a a monthly kinda like tracker but then off that they they go into other things they created what they call a woman's health super app and this was the pitch that i saw at the time when my friend went and got dinner with them but they were like look we built the number one period tracking app and that's great and at the time they had like thirty million users using this and they said that in the us ten percent of adult women were using their tracker so like we built the best tracker but a tracker is not gonna be like the most monet thing but they're like well why do people track well often they track because of health reasons they track because they're trying to get pregnant they track because maybe they're entering menopause like there's all these other things and maybe they need health coaching maybe these other things there's a bunch of babies from there and they turned out to be right and so they were like we're gonna make more money than any of these other health apps so they're bigger than calm or these other like meditation apps that that they're are like in the kinda health and wellness space this is a bigger app than all of those and it's run by these guys in eastern europe who you know i've i've i basically dominated the world in this one category they're the number one in this category and so they that they also own a couple of other companies they own another app called z and they know another app called prism which is like a photo editor and they owed i don't do remember when prism went viral a a little while back it like was cool looking filters yeah the hold c has raised a hundred million dollar series b and that's called that's called ulta pal yeah and are they in america no they're in lithuania really and they have hundreds of employees and this is like in the pitch deck was like yeah we we can hire like ten super talented european code for the cost of one you know mediocre engineer in san francisco they didn't say it like that but i i added the mediocre part but that's that's the implication is basically we have this like talent advantage we're the we're the big fish in the small pond but the small pond is highly talented with really good programmers and we're super super cost efficient and so they were able to to be very very efficient as they've as they've grown you could have invested in this yeah so this one that one sucks so then so the i would say the first one was not really a a miss in that like even now i don't think that would've been a great investment but a great business to own not a great business to investment this one would have been a great business investment but it just didn't hit any of my patterns it's like you have eastern european company versus a silicon valley company you have it's in the you know period tracking i don't know how big that space could be you know i i don't don't really i i underestimated i'm sure many people underestimated how big that app could and in fact that's why they said they're like i love that these guys didn't bullshit like they didn't do the thing that also silicon valley startups do where they make up their origin story where they're like well the reason i got into this was that my my aunt was having trouble like you know like jack do with square he's like you know i was i was i was trying to buy this this vase that was being you know this glass this this guy was blowing glass and making this vase for me and i wanted to buy it but mean he couldn't take a credit card and i thought wow the small business of america are like you know underserved i should really change this in fact actually i think part of that that's story always true the the c cofounder founder did do that as a as a hobby but i think most startups make up their origin story where they're like i you know like native deodorant and he's like my sister was pregnant i just did not want her to be having aluminum in her arm pits and so i created a a pregnancy sake yeah right dude you just the shipping cost of deodorant was is a lot cheaper than mattresses and do just exactly like that's why you did it due economics is not as gonna store were like went to and i was hunting for the most most highly sold product to know there's thousand one time to ship and had eighty percent gross margins it's like that's not as good of a p story so these guys they didn't do that they were like why'd did you do he's like well we just wanted to find the most underserved market like we just knew that no talented builders were building in this space and we thought well half the world's population has this problem they're completely underserved and we could build a you know a simple product that might have legs to to grow from there that's that's what they did this guy's amazing we gotta get him on the pods so it's the one of the founders i guess it's you said two brothers his name is yuri gu i guess he's from belarus but i think they kind of live in poland in it looks in and and cyprus they're all over the place but he he's really successful so like you kinda acted like he was like a young kid just like blogging and packaging his blogs into books no no these guys are gangster yeah like these guys are baller and he's had multiple companies that he sold one he sold to facebook one to i actually don't know how to pronounce this what's mail dot r u it's the russian guy your seller yes says yes he sold one at google like the these guys are hardcore these guys are awesome yeah these guys are kicking ass and so they and you know he's he's basically like they're like what do you think contributed to the success he's like well the biggest thing is we pick the right market and i love that he said this because i think this is where he even said this he's like most people he's like you need three things the right target market the right timing and then the right people to execute on it and he's like most people don't get the first two right but that's your rising tide if you could pick the right market and the right timing he's like we pick basically this underserved women's health market and we started in two thousand eight right when the apps came up that's where we started making apps so we were early and we went to the underserved market that had demand from there all we had to do is just hire good people and it would it would work out and i think that most people when you talk to entrepreneurs or the way their brain works if you had to make a pie chart it would be like number one is like you know the how cool is my idea so it's like not market but it's more product they focus on the product then they focus on the people and then last is like they kinda think about what market they're in and they try what they try to do which i think is a bad strategy when i mistake i made many times it's like build the best product in the in a whatever market in a market but you'd rather go into an amazing market and build a good enough product that's like a lot more success comes and the best example of that i believe it was a coinbase base they were like our website early on sucked like it went down all of the time but we we picked the market that people were baking for it and that they were willing to put up with a really crappy product and another speaking of these apps michael act smith from calm he gave me this great like sound bite one time we were just talking and he was like i don't launch these other things and i kinda had to push the rock up the hill in order to make it work but i knew that i picked the right i knew that i picked the right market being calm and meditation he was like it was as if i had just was surfing and i just happened to catch this massive tidal wave and my job was not to push the rock up the hill it was just to hang on to the surfboard and hope i don't crash because it's pushing me and it's doing all of the work and that's the difference between something really working and something and not working because like i had all these amazing things and he's like i'm a really good entrepreneur but i and i kinda brute forced it into reality but it was really really really hard and i learned that when you pick the right market and you catch the right tidal wave that makes life a thousand times easier and and the hard part is what you people get wrong is okay i wanna pick the right market so they just go to the biggest flash market right so right now ai i gotta go to ai and they go into super competitive market that's it is a hot market there are gonna be huge winners there but the trick the like you know peter t one time went to a a meetup up and they were like what's this key to investing he do he drew two circles like a venn diagram and he's like seems was like a bad idea and then the other wrote is a good idea he's like the problem is most people just do things that sound like a good idea the problem is everybody else is also doing things that sound like good idea you're just it's tons of competition and you might be too late by the time it seems like a good idea he's like so the secret is can you find something that today seems like a bad idea but it's actually a good idea coinbase bay started back with bitcoin was like not considered like an avi crypto wasn't the wave back then it wasn't the trendy thing to do it was actually an underserved market but it wasn't and it was turned out to be a great market but it wasn't considered already a great market where all the smartest people in the world went and we're fighting this like war over there that's what you know ai everybody agrees it's an incredible market so they're all gonna go fight this battle over there so you really have to if you're gonna have somebody you have to niche down and find some section of that that's underserved or go somewhere that's today not seen as that not like forget ai i'm the thing three years from now that's ai it seems like the hostage tape guy giving his ted talk you know always gotta be standing there like this talking about the venn diagram of bad ideas and good ideas i that his idea is just gonna be a bill circle of the bad ideas yeah we gotta be in the middle i'm sorry hostage tape guy you're right i'm wrong you're the one winning the this is amazing these guys are amazing i i would love to get this guy in the podcast is he speaking he's i imagine he's in english speaker right or partially dude probably he's better english than us yeah there anything i can't do like would you i if one guy had to save my life and they were like how about this guy like yeah sure i'm sure he could do it yeah yeah and if you google this guy so his name's yuri gu sorry i'm i'm probably pronouncing it a little bit incorrect he's got the perfect balance he's got that next door that next door hot look you know what i'm saying it looks like he could you could chill with him a little bit but he also looks like he could really mess you up physically like he's he does a good job of of having that that next door look i've been messing up physically yeah dude i did so many messages are comments of people making fun of me and they they either think i'm gay or they're just like dude why are you commenting about people's cab all the time and i'm totally just like giving into this by the way do you have something to promote today or what now it's time right now we're talking about some of the best execution we've seen some of the best most talented people we've seen and are they sitting in that america no they're overseas actually everyone has been overseas everybody we've talked about has been overseas and that's because the world has changed there's talent everywhere and for you as an entrepreneur one of the things you should be doing is leveraging that global talent the way to do that is to go to shepherd and just tell them what you need all you do is you go there and you're like hey i think we need a developer i need an engineer or i need a designer or i need somebody who could do all of our influencer marketing whatever you don't have time for that's the bottleneck of your business go to shepherd tell them what you need and they will find you somebody a couple weeks you will have talent in place usually for five times less than you hire for in america this is a this is a not so secret secret anymore you know from my e commerce company i think forty percent of our staff is international we get tremendous cost savings and we get some of the best talent by just by looking overseas looking where other people aren't looking if you're hiring in the same place else else's hiring you know you're you're not gonna make it and they're doing developers now they do developers yeah because they do lat so one of the things i've been using is all their like lat talents in latin america where you get a lot more of two things one is a shit ton of mba so like i needed an operations person i was like my coo is just like i feel like every coo is overworked like i don't know you've ever had this but like the entrepreneur always just gives the coo everything they don't wanna do which is like eighty five percent of all the work in any business they just gets dumped on coo it's like yeah that's operational you should figure that out and so it's like do my coo needs coo and so we started hiring operations people from south america because they have basically people were you know mba so they're like trained that way they've been doing consulting for years and they make like you know let's call it three k a month and so compare that to in america you'd probably be paying twelve to fifteen k month for that same talent so we have four to five times more and so we found some awesome both developers and operations people in lat that's what i go for there and then like kinda like customer service design anything that's like data marketing marketing assistant that's all philippines for me wow alright well and what's the url support shepherd dot com go to support ship dot com and then when you're there tell them i sent they'll take care of you do we wanna round up round out with the the three random things you have here yeah i got some random things i don't know which one we wanna do did you watch the super bowl at all yeah i i'm not like a sports guy i i but i watched it just because it was a big deal and you have jason well how do you say the guys last same kelsey kelsey jason kelsey over travis kelsey have his guy seem pretty likable in his post game like interview like if he seemed like a big goofy idiot in the best possible way yeah he kind of although it was really bad from i don't know if you saw it during the game he like he looked like she got super angry at his coach and like almost like knocked him over and was yelling adam the reason it wasn't cool was because his coach is old enough that you're like oh that ain't that's like you're you kinda of push an old guy really he like kinda lost his balance like almost pushed him down and it was like yeah that's what saying everyone felt bad for like their own dad in that moment that's what i mean i was like oh he's a little bit too old but they like hug good out and this seem like they're fine afterwards yeah i think they're fine but definitely all of the taylor swift fans were like red flag we need an emergency made all the swift sounds like an emergency meeting they we're like i'm worried about taylor i don't like what i saw out there but did you see the i did see the brother so he has another brother and the and the nfl jason his brother dressed up like zach of gal from hangover where he from alan from the hangover and he looked hilarious yeah i basically wanna do a ted talk actually i wanna prepare slides and be like here's why you should be chasing kelsey and not travis kelsey because on paper you wanna be travis kelsey he's the receiver you know jason kelsey he's a center like the most un unreal position that there is so it's like you know you have travis kelsey he's a tie and he's always catching passes he's like he's good better looking like he's like you know more handsome he's like like they're more stylish he could dance the other guy's kinda awkward you know travis kelsey dating taylor swift oh that's amazing right but jason kelsey wife is a badass ass she's he's like great looking former athletes super fun she like joins this podcast all the time and she's like got a great personality and just seems like super down earth like she shows up to the to the box because they know you're gonna show taylor swift like a hundred times during the game right and it's taylor swift and she's there with like that actress what's your name blake whatever blake lively something like lively yeah and it's like and they know every time something happens they're like doing youtube the mail face like they're so exaggerated with their emotions because they know it we're performing here whereas like jay kelly's wife is there in the background she's wearing like her college hoodie like her like alma mater hoodie no makeup and she's just super comfortable and she's having a great time she's like eating food and drinking she's like chilling out not trying to get attention all the time just like and then you know jason showed talk about this a lot i did because last week they played or two weeks ago they played in buffalo and the game i don't know if you it it was like crazy snow day and jason kelsey was watching the names watching his brother play and he went and he was like dude i wanna sit in this like luxury suite he's like i wanna be out there with him this is awesome this is like what you grow up loving about football like a snow game this is crazy playoff football so he takes his shirt off he jumps into the crowd he jumps out of the luxury box into the crowd with the buffalo fans and starts chugging beers and just like having a great time with him he's like that's the experience i want and his wife was like told you this like taylor here they're gonna like people are gonna see you doing this he's like i don't care what people see i wanna like this is what i grew up like you know ad admire i wanna have a great time so you can tell these guys having a great time he's not in it for the show he's got the real relationship goals you should have not the taylor swift like high school you know the the cheerleader leaders dating the quarterback type of shit and then he shows up to the super bowl dress like alan from the hangover it i love jc kelsey i'm all about jason kelsey jason kelsey over travis kelsey that's my case i'm looking emma i just googled jason kelsey shirtless and you do see him in the box wearing grace sweatpants pants taking a shirt off and he's like in the drunk guy mode where he's yelling what's hilarious about this guy is you see his face and you see some of things where he sounds just like a goofy dummy like he's just joking like your fat friend but they show him shirtless and you see a can of beer in his hand and it is so small this guy is a shot this guy will kill you over our energy yes this this bud like and it looks like a five hour energy in his in his hand this guy is a freak how like they're they're both i guess huge this guy does not look huge when you just see him from the neck up on the podcast this guy and you know he's got gray hair right so like doesn't ask like looked like an athlete you see them shirtless this guy looks like a freak that's the amazing yes exactly i i just think there's some life lesson there's some wisdom in this whole thing in fact another version of this by the way did you see like when the i don't know what it was the grammy were on and the tracy chapman song was going super viral do you see this they did fast car or left she awesome too so do you know the back do you know her story or do you know the backstory of like tracy chapman in that song yeah she basically was just a a normal person she was a a just your an an average lady and she i think got discovered by like a friend of a friend so the friend being the writer of billions the his yeah his dad was worked in the music industry and brian one of the tracy seems like look they went mileage so they were in college she's just playing like on campus and he's like you're amazing he calls his dad he's dad he goes what he said was he goes look this is like at lame usually and i never like asked my daddy for a favor that's kinda douche she right but you've got it would you care if i make an introduction to my father i actually think he might help you and i'm not just like blowing smoke up your ass like you actually this actually could do something and i think it it became something it it did so it she she kinda gets a contract but she's she's like the anti artist right she's the anti pop artist so she's not like she's just gonna make the music she wants and she's not gonna like just do what the regular label wants they were like oh tell us about your relationship she's like i prefer to get that private yeah you're like but just tell us she's like on hollywood they're like but there's got this song has to be about someone she's like is about someone but like you i'd prefer not to share and i don't want them to feel bad about her or anything with so i'm not gonna share and they're like what's hard to promote this album if you're not gonna say anything and she's like i want my music to speak for itself like she was just like to me i watched a cup i went down a rabbit hole after this and i watched her and i was like she is the beacon of authenticity her and jason kelsey are like you actually wanna be them you don't wanna be the pop answer and there's something to the to just being totally authentic and like not performing for everybody like she makes all the like little tiktok bitches look like little tiktok bitches of just like like i don't know if you've seen the subreddit i am the main character yes they see full of people who are like think they're the main character of life they're like they put their camera somewhere on a flight they stand up and they're doing a tiktok dance and everyone else is like dude can you can i get to my seat like what are you doing like what is this it's just like these annoying people who are trying to do stuff for attention so do you know do the how old tracy chaplin is she's like in her fifties probably i don't know what she's sixty she looks sixty she looks awesome and she's like yeah she just goes gray she's got no makeup on or whatever she's like they're like you know how do you how do you promote your music she's like i don't i don't have social media though you know have social media she's like no i mean i just hang out with my friends what what do i why would i need that and they're like but because because i'm and do you sound like an idiot trying to explain why you need social media just like i know i make my music and i i like go outside and i play i hang on my friends like why where would i need that and then they're like okay but like what do you do on your phone and she's like i don't have a smartphone either like haven't you heard the haven't she heard the story of like the mexican fishermen in the banker it's like that where it's yeah you know a a banker a rich banker on vacation and he's in mexico and he's loving it and he meets us fishermen who bring them fresh fish every day and the front the fishermen basically brings us the fish in the morning to the banker and then he spends the rest of the day chilling the banker goes to the fisherman goes hey why don't you just go in like your fish is the best go hire more fishermen and like i'll help you let's build this into a thing and we're gonna make so much money and the mexican guys like alright but then what he goes well then we're gonna like get grow revenue to like fifteen million and then we're gonna sell it and the guy's like then what and he goes well then you're gonna be rich and you could do anything you want and then mexican and guys like would i do the banker goes well then you could just fish all day and just hang out and the mexican guys like i do that now and that's like the whole parable of like you know i actually don't know what it's trying to say other than like your great life a lot till the end and all his nonsense whatever actually not sure what's all about why my be the banker there's still a big vacation i like i think you you missed the ending of that one i was about knowing what you want and also how to happen have enough that there is such a thing is enough tracy cat has enough basically kelsey has enough by the way a couple other cool things about her story that i really like one you know be prepared to you know take the chance when when luck presents do you know how she got her big break like what kind of catapult did her to become a star because obviously she's not doing normal stuff you do to promote yourself as a pop star it look like a pop star doesn't it talk to like a pop star does that have social media does that have a smartphone so how does she initiate get her break have you heard the story no so there was like a giant televised music thing that was for nelson mandela seventy old oh yeah and she's on the like the pre limbs the undercut of the under card before the tv start itself even turns on so she goes and she plays two songs with three songs early in the day and then later in the day was supposed be the headline acts and stevie wonder was supposed to go on and perform but stevie wonder got lost no dave messed up his backing track and so he's like i can't go on like my backing this is not gonna work like i need the audio to work and so they were like shit the audio is messed up we need somebody to go fill like you know six minutes of time here before the next act and give us some time to fix this who can go on and who can play with no backing tracks and just go on acoustic and kill it and they were like tracy will you go on there and play a song and she's like okay and but it's just your you and your guitar nothing else she's like okay and so she goes out there and she plays fast car and you could see this video on youtube her voice is like q at the beginning and she has no like auto tune no vocals no backtrack so it's like you could hear every imperfection in it but then she gets you know she kinda comes into her own and she sings the song and people love it people go nuts for it and that's how she kinda got her break and the start was by being prepared and being willing to go out there and take a risk and have obviously the talent to back it up her first album sells ten million copies which is insane and then they're like amazing huge hit fast car still is considered like one of the like top hundred songs ever written or whatever they're like what do you gonna do for your second album hey the the record executives come to her with like some ideas they have like a pitch meeting they're like they're like you know presentation they're like pull the curtain off the off the ea and they're like tracy chapman singing these pop songs and she's like no nah i don't think i wanna do that and they're like but tracy you did ten million your first time you could do twenty this time right like the baker to the video yeah and she's like no don't really wanna do doug well what do wanna do i'm sure you i'm gonna experiment and figure it out they're like experiment what do you mean you have to go go to the studio and record she's like no i'm gonna record what i'm gonna do is she hired so normally what a musician does is they go they write their songs they go to a studio they hire like a studio musician to come and play the like the piano or the trumpet or whatever with them there they have no chemistry with them they record then later they go on tour and they perform she did it in reverse she's like what if i do the the the instead what if i hired a a set of musicians that i really like i took the risk of hiring them now what if we tour for a year writing songs as we go and then through the tour we're gonna see what music is resonating with people and at the end we'll just record the stuff that they like almost like a comedian going to small clubs and working out their material she did that for music and so and that's how she did her second album and she was like i'm so proud of how it turned out blah blah i have no idea what the sales rep but like you know i like that that approach and again i'm i'm on an authenticity kick right now and to me i love that last year i said sean i'm gonna be having a baby do you could you tell me what are some of the highlights of having a kid and this was private and you're like it's just great you know my my son and my daughter like i just i get so much joy out of seeing that they admire all these little things like they just love staring at the fan and it made me happier that like oh the fan actually is cool and i like i i like am interested in now because they're interested in and i love seeing them grow that's how i feel right now a few years ago a few years ago i asked you about really simple things so i just thought you would understand like dolly pardon and you're like dolly who now you're teaching me about tracy chapman next for all i know you're gonna tell me who the beatles are and you're gonna do this wonderful breakdown and i just think that you have grown so much that you are now like tracy chapman like i didn't know everything about it but i tell you a lot of her songs and and now you've just discovered her and i love that you are bringing a new perspective of this and you are actually teaching me about an artist that i love next what we're would you talk about you know mccartney or clap and let's talk about all this stuff and tell me who mick ja i like have i used to stop believing but i realize i should don't stop believing it's great song like i am getting so much joy and i'm learning now that you are because you you probably didn't know much about her before this did you no i i mean i just heard song in fact i didn't even understand what song never heard that song no i heard i love the song but okay i are you so there's two times of people i think there's people who listen to songs for the words and there's people who listen to songs for the meaning which one are you like i can hear a song a thousand times and not tell you i have no clue what the song is about i don't i've never even actually i've never even thought about the lyrics i might know some of the words but like i couldn't tell you what the song is about even though i i care about the meeting like like particularly like rock and roll by like a lot of black people in the seventies and eighties it's like civil rights stuff i enjoy like learning the story about it yeah i don't know i actually know what fast cars about the you should go listen to it go listen and like actually listen to the lyrics it's a it's an amazing story that she's telling in that thing so i kinda got into it for that reason i also like one other thing i watched interview with her and i think both of us appreciate po as a as a trait i think poison is something nobody ever talks about but we all noticed it when we see it yeah those are things that i like to pick up on what are the things that nobody says they are into a practice nobody ever says i'm practicing poised but when we see it we all think it's badass ass and we appreciate well tom brady he's so poised or that leader he just has this way carries himself well it's poised under pressure right poised and so she she did this charlie rose interview and charlie rose again she's kind of the worst interview ever because she doesn't say anything like sincerely played the game yeah shows like the game and so he's like you know tell me you know when you were a young kid like when did you first start playing music she like you know i got a guitar and i started playing music when i was like five he said by eight i was writing songs and he's like and he's like that's when you knew you wanted to be a musician she goes i think that's when i knew i just she didn't say i think she goes that's when knew i was a musician yeah was like it just realized he kind of this she wasn't trying to say it to own it but what a what a statement too and i think there's what a poised way of saying something that she just saying it as it is that's how it was i realized i was a musician and that's me as a part of me that's how i am like that it wasn't i'm gonna try to do anything trying is like the least poised thing you could do i am a musician i think she's just she's a badass i really respect and i think she lives in ohio which is you know sort of like a dave chappell you know these guys that are like they could have it all they could be in the middle and the thick of it all but they're in fucking ohio just hell was another one on the authenticity remote rushmore right like walked away from fifty million dollars because you know they were trying to control the the show and i like then they maybe they call me crazy and said i was doing crack in africa he's like no i'm i'm not doing cracking after what's talking you're talking about he's like he's like i'm in ohio i'm not by the way my image i'm just gonna go live my life and behalf i didn't know that i i actually up until recently thought he was in africa he was like that was narrative it was dave dave health kinda like basically went crazy he's doing crack and then he went to africa he lost his mind he's and he came out like years later it was like no like they were offering me a bullshit contract i said no and then i just went home and like just did all the things with my life on yeah i he's like i didn't he's like then they started saying this crazy shit but whatever you're okay whatever yeah he was like i i was in ohio that's where my my father's from there i was just hanging out a family right it's like you know then the the po thing like when mandela got locked up for whatever like he was like locked up for thirty years or something like that and then he came out and like you know whatever solved the apartment to i know don't know i don't know he's was he did something bad for black and went the mexico fish yeah was with a bunch of when he did but said was badass ass he was like they were like you know aren't you angry or resent full at the people that put you in in jail for twenty thirty years or whatever and he was like no i was preparing yes i was preparing for this and i was like that's awesome that's a cool way of saying it sean coming through big time this is the sean p up episode that was a good good one from start like cultured now i think i think so i think the second you give props to tracy chapman and and and nelson mandela i think that you are officially you've crossed the chasm my friend know when you leave milk out for a while comes yogurt the culture that's what happened to me i just sat out for a while and and happened well it took you a couple dozen a few desert years but you've officially you've crossed the threshold congratulations good job good pod if you're a fan of this you gotta subscribe if you want more tracy chapman but also the occasional joke about mexican fishermen that we totally skipped over and don't understand the meaning of the story you gotta subscribe that's pod thanks i feel like i could rule where i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a day's off on a road less travel never looking back