#221 - How to Make Millions With a Modern Day Infomercial

i think if you're starting a media company and if i started it again if you didn't go subscription first you're an idiot in your fool yeah i feel like i could rule the world i know i could be what i want to from my all in it like a days off on a road travel never looking back alright we're live so did you see i got ariel h hawaii to agree to come on i know a good job how how'd you do that a friend a good buddy of mine is like best friends with him and i just begged him your your outreach i had never seen you tries so hard normally you're pretty cool about things i don't think you really care with too many people but i could tell you wanted this one he did i so basically eric there for the people listening there's this guy named ariel h hawaii he's got a million followers on twitter so he's not like that niche but basically he's like the god of mma journalism and the reason why he's interesting is because he just quit espn where he was probably making close to a million dollars a year as a host and he created a subs stack his own podcast and he's kinda building like a little media media empire yep and so we're we'll have him on and talk about that yeah and you know the thing that's interesting by him was he's been in it for a while so like you have this phrase i think you've say like get riches basically which is like yeah a lot of people are afraid to go into a niche market and is it niche or niche by way i have no idea both well all can work okay good so you know a lot of people are afraid oh is this two niche and i think you have the opposite reaction which is tu niche fantastic at least that's my my i understanding you tell me if that's that's right or wrong well it's the the two things one when you when whenever you start doing something it's definitely better to start for a very small group of people and a very small niche and corner that or at least get big in that and then expand or the second thing is you can stay in in a growing niche and grow with but get you know start your start your business on top of a huge wave for example twitch video game streaming super small niche they never expanded really right it's still the same thing from they want tried but it's still you know dominant where it's just gaming yeah and that niche has just they're in it it just is no longer really a niche or you have like an amazon only books and then you dominate that and then cds and then this and then this and then so yeah i think starting smalls is always the way to go or is often the way to go yeah and i think in in ariel case what he did was i know he's a fan of i kinda wanna ask him of this he's a fan of the nba like he's a big basketball fan but he didn't go for journalism basketball journalism which would have been a a more obvious safe choice instead he went for mma which was like this fringe really niche sport that you know had it was kind of like you know john mccain in and new york is calling at human cock fighting it's like not allowed in certain places yeah and so it wasn't really like a a very safe choice but he was the only dude doing it it felt like it was like you know you can go back you know to fifteen years basically and you see clips of him talking to people backstage and just budget production value but he was like the guy covering this regularly and because that he's got like deep relationships deep spec amongst the fans to the point where even though dana white who's the president of hates him and has banned him from like the events he's still the number one journalist so imagine you know like this guy that that roger gi the commissioner of the nfl just hates and bans from the game still being the number one you know journalist for for the athletes that's kind of unusual and so yeah he's interesting to dude but i with a cool story yeah i'm excited to have him i i actually think that i i think that it's gonna the it'll be a hit with our listeners even the people who aren't into u i think it's gonna be a hit but i am a fan boy so we'll see yeah that's all good can i tell you about a business that is built on trust that i'm obsessed with at the moment okay go for it alright have you heard of examine dot com no what is exam you've never heard that okay can you go to your computer now you have ma'am i'm at it let me go there alright so do tell tell you what i see yeah okay i go to examine dot com i thought it was gonna be about books or something no it says nutrition information you can trust and then it's just like a giant kinda like google search bar it's like like for example oh this that's perfect actually my trainer was telling me about uganda i see os i i i've been taking that for eight days now great so that's a supplement and so i go here and i guess the idea would be hey there's gonna be a lot of if you google this you're gonna find a lot of information but we are a trusted source we do the research we put the pros and cons here we make it easy to understand is that the idea yeah so i'm gonna i'm gonna summarize it so the reason this interests me is i a friend named sol s o l or well he's a good buddy of mine i'm not even met but we we went to a bunch of conferences and we were in the same room and we never met up but we became friends and he's a great guy and i just met him as a guy and then i saw his business and it's it's called examined dot com and what it does is they do a a few things so first they get about forty thousand visitors a day and they get those visitors by having this free content so what you're looking at where it examine that supplement ash but the model in which they make money is that they have a membership that membership has supplement guides and then they also have a thing where they look at all the recent studies and they summarize it to tell you exactly what you need to know and it'll say this is a strong study and the conclusion is this this is a not great study and the conclusion is this and you shouldn't you should avoid it and they do that with all types of studies and basically the what the company is and i i'll i'll explain why i think this is a is a big deal but basically they take knowledge that's locked up or complicated to understand and they make sense of it into a really easy to understand way and so they have i'm wanna give some stats forty thousand visitors a day twenty employees seven figures in revenue fifty thousand people have signed up for their membership or bought some of their guides and that's only been around for about two years the guides have or the membership and so they made money by selling guides and so i bought this supplement guide they have one on like i i have like panic attack problems that i'm trying to fix and they have guides on it it listed all the it said here if you these six supplements have been proven by clinical trials to help with panic attack and it list them all and it says take this one if you don't feel only anything thing in two weeks pair it with this one and then pair it with this one and they tell you and they go and when you buy it make sure that it's magnesium not magnesium oxy like they tell you very specific stuff and i think this business is amazing it's amazing because they've spent years building up trust so men's health doctor andrew shu bin do you know who that is he's that guy who has a youtuber he talks about health stuff he's like kinda going by right now which is just on joe rogan and tim ferris they all everyone exam dot com new york times sites exam dot com they've spent years building up trust every word that they write is very meticulous now they're starting to monetize in this model i actually think it's amazing and i didn't at first i was like there's no way this can be a big idea but there's this company called up to date you've probably never heard of about up to date if you're listening and you're doctor you probably have heard of this and so it's basically examine dot com but for doctors i mean it's been around before examine dot com so examine dot com is that for nutrition in this business doctors pay i believe six hundred dollars a year and they get the same exact thing they get access to a content database very explicitly and clearly says which clinical trials are proven which are not and what the conclusion is and then summarizes a bunch of stuff get so much money that makes the year i think a lot i think i think probably i mean i'm i'm looking at up to date and i think it has fifteen you know similar shows about fifteen million visits a month so that's pretty impressive i would guess okay i'm gonna go high oh no i'm gonna go low it's always fun to to be blown away so i'm gonna say fifty million a year so the estimate is closer to five hundred million dollars a year in subscription away i'm blown away just as i hoped with my lowest estimate isn't isn't a city when you're trying to yeah but you're trying to blow someone's mind and then they estimate over you're like well okay not that much but it's still cool it's i got damn got damn it like you know that should just be a rule amongst friends if i a ballpark something you know let me let me blow you away and the company that owns this does the same thing for finance tax and accounting i believe and that whole company is publicly traded it does like five billion in sales a year crazy business model and they're i'll tell you why this is interesting to me this is interesting to me because i love content businesses i love them there's a huge problem with content businesses which is they suck at making money if you're gonna make money in the most traditional way of banner ads or some type of buzzfeed style native ads i fucking hate that this model i love i think that you could use this model for a bunch of different categories including skin care including beauty i think that would be the next the the the the easiest one according to sol what do you think about this business it's pretty neat right genius yeah so up to date makes total sense yeah like i i am i'm surprised at i i haven't heard of it i am not surprised something like this exists and works it just makes all the sense in the world examine dot com also very very cool and i think sort of like if if up to date is kinda like a b to b examine is kinda like a a a b where it's like you know the average person who's just curious like you i'm curious about panic text i'm curious about ash uganda or i'm curious about you know whatever elk car and you know i hear about it i hear some buzz but i'm trying to be like smart and safe about things where do i go that's not just trying to sell me shit and not just trying to like print page views as like a content form and so i think that trust is you know like sort of like one of the only things that matters you know like world of abundance and that's where we're we are we're we're in a world of abundance and so trust is like one of the key key things and examine dot com their rule is they don't recommend any brand so you can't find any brand on their site if they say take magnesium oxy i was like sol just tell me like which brand so i just buy it on amazon and he goes no we can't tell you that you gotta go and figure that out because of way wait the day we start doing that is the day we start like incentivizing the wrong shit so it's pretty amazing business model you know who else does this is consumer reviews so consumer reviews you probably don't use anymore a lot of people who are younger my age and younger don't use it anymore so consumer reviews it's wire cutter but they charge a subscription that company it's actually a non nonprofit so you can actually look up their revenues their revenues they charge a subscription revenue right what did i say consumer review consumer report yeah consumer report it was around it was around before wire cutter i prefer a wire cutter out but consumer report is pretty amazing they charge subscription revenue they still do like a hundred and twenty million dollars in subscription revenue and they're telling you like the best tv the best microphone the best computer and they crush it yeah so let me just consumer reports subscription news standard and other sales and the year twenty twenty that did two hundred and twelve million dollars in in subscription revenue crazy right subscription revenue that's insane two hundred forty five million overall overall revenue in twenty twenty insane i think if you're starting a media company and if i started it again if you didn't go subscription first you're an idiot and your fool and you're a ama kiss and you like pain if i if i could do it all over again knowing what i know now i would only start that way and it's totally the i think it's the best business model clip it alright yeah that's a good one i i like that a lot you've talked about this and like consumer reports for other things right so you've talked about it for saas tools and then some people have tried that g two and and and others have tried that what do you think about that what's your latest thinking on that because you been thinking about that idea for a while i think it's an amazing idea and so someone could still do it g two has raised another round of funding like a multi billion dollar valuation i think i think it still could be done there's a company called j two global have you heard j two global no alright look up the stock of j two global right now for me i i act like i'm setting you up i actually haven't looked at it in a while is it good okay so j two global alright it's training at a hundred thirty dollars a share the market cap is six point three billion dollars and yeah you know like sort year to date it's almost double so j two global what they do is they own a handful of publications including i i g n masha pc mag offers dot com and one or two more but basically they make the bulk of the revenue i believe from suggesting which software to buy in pc magazine and that's how they make most of their revenue and and and it's a publicly traded company new look it all up so i think this model can still crush it i think pc magazine is pretty much garbage g two is okay right but anyway i think it's a really big business that so many people are sleeping on and you know what else could you do this sort of trust trust model for so i have a i have one idea but i'm curious what else comes to mind for you care and beauty that's what i i think it could be done care and beauty because there's there's an ocean of there's a ocean of brands and you kinda care about you know the problem i think with that is you don't have fear that that's one really good thing about supplements and medicine is that there's like a fear component to right like i don't wanna actually like die or get side effects from this thing or have have a you know sort of a big problem occur because of the potential benefits of something whereas as a care i think yeah you might break out or you might just wanna know which one's better but it doesn't have that fear component where people are gonna look it up and say before i buy this i've really got check and so i think that's one of the keys you know there's like which one of these dishwasher is best i think that's a consumer report thing like i wanna research this like oh these guys test this for five thousand cycles and they tell me which one last the longest and works the best like okay that's great i was never gonna do that myself you know i think that's one version where it's like tires which tires is the best tire to get what's refrigerators the best refrigerator to get and then on the other side there's the fear one like supplements medicine sort of like alternative medicines what's what's gonna happen from those i think those are two like especially good categories and i think the difference of choosing the right category versus the wrong category is a multiple multiplier of like oh ten x ten x extra fifty x of your outcome i i would imagine you could do the same for physical therapy so the reason therapy is interesting so basically i've had a injured achilles for about a year now and i've been researching like crazy and if you search achilles tend there's loads of different stuff and i've been reading so many studies and what my conclusion now is this there's only one way to fix your achilles tendon and that is to do rest no no no it's rest but it's to do six sets of fifteen achilles like a eccentric drop down so what that means is you stand on a curb or a step and you slowly like yourself fall and then you kinda step up and then slow and if you do that and i read a study after study it's almost like been unanimous that if you do this for three months every single day your achilles tendon will get better and i had to dig so deep for that and i think that something like this could exist for physical therapy and injuries and things like that right yeah and i yeah i i kind of agree with right now my mom has this like she had ver go but then it kinda went away but she still feels symptoms and the doctor's like you don't have ver she's like no i get that but what do i have i have something this is not right and they're like blood looks fine and unless she has to call back and i'm like hey i know the blood work looks fine but i'm not right yeah what do i do they're like go let's do an mri same thing and then it's like finally okay do these like do this physical therapist she's literally walks around the house with a piece of paperwork front her that has like a letter on it so her eye has to focus on it as she moves it to the right while she's walking and then moves it to the left while she's walking like my gosh dude is this the exercise like maybe it is if it is fantastic but where how do we know that this is it and that there's not like a much faster better way because previously when she had ver go that was like ver go proper she went to three doctors nobody knew what to do the fourth doctor was like oh lay down and he like shook her head like vigorously and it's like this known cure and basically like loosen up the crystal in the inner ear or whatever and she was like fixed in ten minutes and she's was like wow like if i just hadn't come to see you how many more months or years when i've just had ver like that's a pretty scary thought yeah i think that could work or here's another thing do you know kyle you know what i think about chiropractor i know i i know what what most people know which is like skeptical skeptical lies as our boyfriend branded chop says and i didn't know that i thought kyle sorry to chiropractors or chiropractors fans out there but basically chiropractor it was invented by a guy i forget his name but he was like a snake oil salesman he was full of shit and he thought that like i'm gonna someone's gonna correct me because i'm kinda getting it wrong but basically like there's like evil spirits or something in you and it really if you adjust the spine it releases it now some chiropractors like can help very little like but ninety percent like ninety percent of what chiropractors what we think they do you you you can't adjust your spine and like your headache stop like that's just not how your body works but it's nonsense right also the the acceptance rate of chiropractors school is a hundred percent like and it's like a it's like a it's you a google adsense certification it's not like you know what i mean i i know i'm gonna get flack for this and yes there are some chiropractors out there a lot of it though is non sense and i i think an examine dot com can exist for all types of parts of the body so anyway that's my idea on exam dot com i thought it was interesting i'm bit obsessed with it i'm currently on a vitamin regimen and i discovered it on there i thought it was cool you wanna do another one yeah okay so let me give you another trust as a service so this is just like a i'm calling this my two dollar blue collar side hustle white account which is here's the side hustle that will make you some bucks it's not gonna be a huge business probably it's not even maybe gonna be around five years from now but i think right now it's a thing you could do so are you big on i need to order a lot of food because i'm a i'm a door right like i am i do but not but not like you you do like every meal well i i i got a chef now but even with a chef there's still you know two to two meals a week or where i'm like let me just fire up the door to and see what happens dude it's so expensive it hurts me and so when when you get your meal they all have this like sticker on it now that says safety sealed and it's just all it is is like you know normally it's like in a bag and they were like tied the bag and a knot and now they like sticker it to show like no human like the food went in and then we sealed this shit because it's like viral own videos of like door dashboards eating the food ethan food coughing in the food i don't even know what the fear is it's just like i can't lie when i see this stick sticker i'm yeah i'm glad they sealed it like good i'd rather be sealed the not sealed that's fucking sure and there wasn't even a thing i was thinking about before but somebody is out there selling branded safety seal stickers to your restaurants and i just think that in general there's gonna be a whole wave if you just said i'm gonna sell trust and safety as a service i'm gonna sell it to every business that needs to reassure its customers that is taking covid safety protocol seriously and then you can you can dial that knob up to level twelve of like chiropractor where you're like i'm just gonna mail these to everybody they yeah put it on yourself honor code this is an honor code system you know like just just put this sign up in your in your restaurant put this mat on the outside of your thing put this on every doorknob hang this on every doorknob you know stick put the sticker on every cup you know whatever you could just send it or you could actually like go out and verify and say hey here's our five points you know safety inspection and we send mystery shoppers out or whatever we like actually create kind of like a zag reviews type of of sticker or seal of approval specifically for trust and safety around covid that's the general idea what do you think i love it and i'm i'm gonna show you an example of of of something similar to this have you heard of i think it's pronounced lead l e e d lead certified the like green buildings thing yeah so i was looking this up so it's a nonprofit so you could easily see their sales so that that wow they do i think this is i i'm almost positive it's run by a company called the us it was not a company but a nonprofit us green building console and i think they is that it do you know no but yeah i believe you and they do thirty one million dollars a year in sales and basically i have no idea what the i have no idea why buildings are incentivized to do that but i imagine the business model is such where you pay lte lead i guess is what it is what it's called and oh here dance as he's a former accredited professional for lead so that's that's dan dan un un unmute dan i on the scale of on the chiropractor where is lead certification it's nowhere in near chiropractor it's legit and you are a lead accredited professional what the heck does that mean did you pay for the first did you pay for this accreditation my company my former company did yeah okay so somebody paid for you to get certified and then you charged other companies to go give them the stamp of approvals is that right yeah so as a professional you get like one point towards the point total you need to become a lead building and then there's like a right silver gold platinum of scale and it's shit like you know you use the kinda light bulbs use the right kind of insulation that sort of thing when you're building you're building right or renovating yep stuff like that air quality indoor air quality which is really bad normally low use water things like that no smoke what and why does you mean you sound like a lead professional right now bro i feel like i'm getting lead certified as we speak why does the building care about getting lead certified look it's a good question yeah i think it's a little bit of just wanting to be green but there's no incentivize inc centralization do like there's the government justice as the government like give you anything or is it simply just for branding and awareness i don't know it's been fifteen years since i took the exam so i'm a a little out of pace on it but i'm not sure if there's a big incentive for it dan how old are you i'm thirty five did this one you're a twenty you were a twenty year old lead certified it might be around a little bit i think it was twenty two when i took it okay more importantly i got a lead certification go to my twitter profile real quick just see what see there dude fuck that i think you're the worst that is so lame so you be verified so lame are you kidding any sean got verified he's got a blue check mark i think that is the lame is dude you are not one you're not a man of the people anymore you're so out of touch for i used to shit on i don't need that i don't need that you know what what does that mean anyways what who who cares about that anyways you know i actually prefer not to and now that i haven't it all that all that bullshit is out the window i am so glad why did you get it glad i got the blue chip well i got it for like actual legit reasons first i was just i wanted it for my ego for many years but i you know here whatever didn't happen who cares but then people started actually be like impersonating me and scamming my followers so there were all of these accounts i get created every month and they would go dm my followers like hey yeah what's up and people like oh hey thanks for the dm big no problem you know i saw you follow me you know what what are you doing with your portfolio lately and they would scam them into either sending them crypto or buying random crypto shit coins or they were giving them to like buy stocks or like send them like send them money to go like invest in their like i they like pretended they were my fund and so people were actually like you know it i used to just hurt my feelings i wasn't verified it but then it was actually like hurting other people and so i was like dude what the fuck i was bitch pitching about it yeah and i get i get that price i get that but that's the only reason i'll accept no i think that every other reason is bullshit i i think they're stupid what's that it's a little jealousy i'm smelling i i i don't know like i think you kinda want the blue check mark too i think the people on twitter it twitter need to help you out i think i'm i think i'm barely famous enough to get it but i i will not get it i'm not you have crypto telling tell me right now you push a button if you could just have it or not have it no no nothing else just push this little key on your you tell me you wouldn't push that button i give you my word i will not push that button wow but but if i mom if i end up having scams like you then yes i've not had that i've not had that problem yeah it became like a legit problem anyways so okay leads verification so yeah basically i think i think lead is another good one like i would love if somebody just took on lead and just called it like you know green home oh you oh you're you're a green home triple star wow it does that sound good already yeah it's like again you could turn that knob how much like you can go super legit if you really like find ways that you could kinda score buildings or you could like be somewhere in the middle and you know build scam but like dude i would do that trust the service is a great business i actually think that the health departments scorecard is bullshit so i had a hotdog dog stand i mean duh i i talk about have you told that sorry yeah yeah you know i don't drink either and when when they when they did my health certificate certificate like i just bullshit through it like hardcore and like i i mean i my shit was clean but like they had all these boxes we had a check and it was bullshit but in the day that we were doing it i actually was wearing flip flops and they gave me a ninety five instead of a hundred and so like i think you kinda not gross toes out while you're making hotdog hot dogs yeah i know what you want outside in a hundred degrees selling meat that's been sitting there for like you know what i mean like forever like it's it's fucking disgusting anyway i it is super i worked so without my first thing is a sushi restaurant and we had a comm we worked out of a comm air kitchen which is like a it's a central kitchen where like cater and bakers it's like a kitchen without a storefront so in there was all the food truck guys and so you so in that i saw the hierarchy of like d desi it's like caters like said like bakers bakers are good people bakers are are nice women who care about their product and they do a great job and they're very h energetic and then cater are like kinda like they're like bakers they're they're legit but you know the the meet the demands on a cater are so high it's always high urgency they're preparing for a two hundred person party or whatever so you know they're kinda get shit done they'll cut through the red tape but you know you you you respect their decisions then there's the fucking food truck guys food truck guys they think this is a bar they're just drunk while they're prepping their tacos they're pretty disgusting and then you have the hot dog guy at the end this guy straight up okay so there's like a sink and if you don't know what a three compartment sink is you have paid your blue collar dues but basically a three compartment sink is like i kinda where you do the dish dishes in a in a commercial kitchen and like the three three compartment sink is just literally it's full of like the dirtiest dishes and just a chemical bomb you put in there to like clean them and the fucking hotdog guy in our comm air kitchen would just go and just fill up the sink with the hotdog dogs that he's gonna be selling like three hours later you'd just be throwing the hot dogs around there washing them dry you know put them in the other thing to dry off and it's like this guy there was zero and i literally i don't think i've had a hotdog dog since because i saw how the sausage was made and you know never wanna see it again that's our thing service announcement don't need i agree i was clean i mean i kept myself clean but i can see why most don't you can get you don't have to you can just get away with it not even counting what's the meat i'm not like forget the meat let's say the meat was pure the way it's handled disgusting so i think you could build a new version of a of a of a health department score actually i i actually think that's legitimate do how many other eric could we just do this like okay i'm bullshit about twitter right now could you just do this whether it's like you're you have a con you have like a content score like you i'm just like how you know either like how like you know safe and kind of like non offensive your content is like maybe it's something that's like like you know it's it's around your can't you know what we should do you it's so interesting this or your and score like how much your fans care about you we just bullshit like your engagement score but we make it really visible it's like sam he may not have the most followers but his followers love him it's like we make your q score yeah you you know what q q is it's like a popularity ranking we just makes we oh you haven't heard this q score it's like a thing celebrities yeah it's a thing for like hollywood celebrities is it's like what's your what's your popularity kind of like it's not approval rating it's like your popularity rating how how old do people know you and like you know obama has a high queue score and yeah i feel like you could do that on social media with clout but just like bullshit the whole thing yeah i i i i think that's crazy i don't think that's good cloud score i actually think clout was amazing so clout was a company that was roundup was spelled k l o u t they had like a hundred employees they raised a lot of money they ended up selling for a hundred million dollars i think it was like a hundred million dollars of stock in a privately health company like i don't think it was actually that could have an exit but they great idea cloud early you're just too early amazing idea way too early amazing idea if it were around now it would be the best i actually thought somebody restart cloud and just dm us i thought it was it was the great branding and people still to me make jokes about cloud clout like they'll be like i gotta crease that cloud score i know what they're talking about i had a cloud score and basically what happened i mean my cloud score wasn't that great i have like five thousand friends on facebook though and so i qualified and so make i think that you're justifying it shows how good of a fuck this is how much i would use it all the time mcdonald's would send me a five dollar gift card once a month right yeah like amazing it was it was so cool i loved clout so i think that could exist and i think that could that could kick ass i think this is like yeah i think there's a lot of other way because this is i don't even think you really need to do that much differently right like there's i'm sure there's like twenty percent of things you would tweak maybe in the execution like you maybe you don't have raise that much money i think the timing is the biggest tweak that you needed to make maybe each change the way it's calculated or the way you promote it or the business model whatever i don't think you need to change that much i just think that the time the time is now and like as donald trump basically created this thing called fake news and they fake news is very underrated how like big of a wave that actually was created and how much dis trust there is around around brands and entities now and so people are kind of like the atomic unit of a brand at this point and so yeah i i think that that cloud cloud should be remade how about the fact that so hubspot has a hub so this one woman who works with me just got scrum certified and we paid five grant it was five thousand dollars or four thousand dollars and i'm like so scrum i i i even know it this i guess it's just like a project management yeah how you manage engineering sprint yeah and we paid five grand and i was like who the heck like is the scrum like decision maker and then i realized hubspot scrub scrum master by the way is it really oh my god it's much more like legit that it that it probably really is hubspot has hubspot certification courses and if you look on people's linkedin they they brag about passing hubspot certification courses we gotta talk i gotta talk to be like how did i'm like look like you guys are amazing and a wonderful and legit but like you weren't always amazing wonderful and legit you were just starting out and you somehow convince people to trust you and take this seriously right how on earth did you do that because that's amazing so they paid hubspot so the so hubspot is the collector of the five thousand dues for the scrum training no sorry the there's a different organization that does scrub but hubspot you've never seen people brag about their hubspot sort certification so like if you google hubspot search certification they've got like these classes i just want people if they tried to try me about that so so so that's an immediate block so there's like inbound sales hubspot marketing software inbound marketing and if you google peep if you google like that and linkedin there's so many people that put that on their linkedin like certified in whatever like there's so many people that cite hubspot as their thing and so like and so they put it like you know how like one time yeah if you look up tyra banks on linkedin she she probably still does this she puts that she graduates away from harvard okay she went to a harvard extension executive learning day and people buy pilot yeah it's like a two day look at look if you look at tire bags okay so she did a nine week program for executive was called the the owner president management extension program yeah dude harvard makes an unbelievable i'm gonna break this down next to next podcast harvard kind of whole business model around online programs harvard business review the the the media company i'm gonna break that whole thing down because it's crazy do with you studied the business review a bunch alright can i tell you about another another idea or a person actually yeah alright there's this guy named matt how do you pronounce his last name from which or whatever yeah i don't wanna butcher you this guy mick sorry matt i i like you i just don't know how to say last name mick mickey and then when wick at the end mickey weeks alright mick wit i've known about this guy for a long time but i'm wanna tell you everything that he's done because i bet you you know all of his work but you maybe didn't know he was the one behind it so in nineteen ninety eight when he lived in australia he started this company while he was in high school called site point site point basically is a publisher of books courses and articles for developers and so you like learn html css java ruby all that they they've never raised any funding and they have like fifty employees i imagine if i had a bet they'd probably make five to ten maybe five to fifteen million dollars a year that's my guess well how do you spell mit mit his name's is matt mick mit have you heard a site point site point dot com no is this still right alright it's still around and so like i've heard a story he was like basically i started this like as a forum and then a blog and people would come my form and blog and i was taking like ten thousand dollar advertising checks when i was like seventeen high school so i dropped out of high school and went all in on this then when he went all in on it his forum on site point people were buying and selling businesses on it and so he spun out one of the the forums into its own business called flip you've heard of flip right yes so i believe they prolific yeah really prolific because you have got the two of his hits listen so we started flip up which is a marketplace for buying and selling small ish websites and stores and and and things like that they've got millions of users flip is like not micro acquire in the space but flip up is like considered like the thing and in fact i think they just raised a little bit of funding like twenty million dollars recently it's got hundreds of employees it's a pretty big business third on site point he also discovered that people in the forum were buying and selling designs and so he started this thing called ninety nine designs which is amazing ninety nine designs is one of the best sites that i've used it's a great place to you basically you on ninety nine designs you give them a thousand dollars you tell them what you want and like a hundred designers give you a mock up of what if they think that your project should look like and then you pay for you select the one you like and they get the money so they they do close to a hundred million i believe in revenue it raised forty five million dollars in funding okay from there he also saw that people were hiring all types of devs so we started hire dot com hire dot com i think it kinda fizz out a little bit it might still be around it's definitely around but it kind of fizz a little but they raised a hundred and thirty two million dollars in funding definitely could still be quite big so that's pretty amazing then he now his next thing is he's creating and so this is all has to do at site point starts at site point ninety ninety eight his next thing is called unstoppable domains you know what that i bet you know what that is better than i do go ahead do it's just a way buy by domains in crypto so like i have a domain that ends instead of dot com it ends dot eth which is dot e t h right so it's a it's a domain name service like it's a it's a domain domain i think it's a registrar so this is a domain registrar for making crypto domain it's the reason it's fault called unstoppable domains is because when you own that name space nobody it's on the blockchain nobody can sort of take it away from you nobody can switch the rules on you it is sort of there forever so this guy matt mit has all started by the way i think he joined it which is dm and when he joined it because i was like if if the guy who's a founder of all these successful companies joins a company it's like one of the strongest signals that there could be like just recently i was saying this about my my friend at david mc macintosh she started tenor it's a it's a gift keyboard sold it to google for i think a couple hundred million dollars and then he joined insta cart as like one of their execs so you joined you know like anytime you're you're it's like this person's independently massively wealthy hasn't never wanna start their own company and they if they wanna join as like not even like join as number one it wasn't join a ceo they didn't join the cto just cto he was like you know maybe like in the top ten of the insta work execs so that's when you know like oh shit this is like is juggernaut that's this if this person thinks this is a hundred billion dollar company if they're do that's crazy to me so and there's also let me just tell you so i dm am i go you join unstoppable super interesting move i said what makes you bullish on it here's what he said i'm just gonna read it out loud may or may not mean anything he there's a trillion dollar asset class with which is basically domains that people are navigating using the equivalent of an ip address if web and encrypt if web three and crypto here to stay then building the identity like the the the basically the address for consumers is one of the most important companies of the decade that he's like in the normal normal web you have ic can you know what ic can is it's yeah so it's like it's like a it's like a committee which is kinda bullshit to me but yes the committee that decides shit about the internet what domains can be you know can you have a dot photo or dot biz yeah domain like i can kinda decides those types of hey he goes it's one of the oldest mono monopoly on the internet it's begging to be disrupted crypto gives us a away to disrupt that because it's creating like a new a new ground where they don't have jurisdiction they don't have rule of law over there that's one of the few crypto examples or blockchain examples where i whole wholeheartedly agree i think that's actually incredibly useful and totally right i don't know who's gonna host the domain or like how that works but i i agree with that like idea because if if you're doing something i can or whoever can can pull it right yeah anyway so so something he was just tell me a little bit more about it but i was like yeah that's that's great that's cool and i lot i bought it on unstoppable domain this guy's is amazing so and get this he's thirty seven he's only thirty seven years old loud amazing this is have you you've heard of him about don't really yeah people don't really know about this guy like or they don't really talk about this guy but he's it's a pretty prolific career and he's kind of like independent and definitely like a oh is it independent thinker i could tell right because nine nine design is actually a pretty like very novel mechanism it's like oh what if we created kind of like a design auction right it's the best it's the best like we used it for our podcast thumbnail or our cover photo or yes podcast did done through ninety nine designs and check this out when we did it hubspot like had all these designers work on this stuff and they made like some pretty good logos and then but we still went with this guy in the philippines who made this logo and it was even it was better than all of them the the the trends dot c website i had designed on there because like you know like when you work with the designer you don't wanna be roots your own designer be like no this sucks can you just do exactly what i told you to do please but you can do that with the freelancer a little bit more than a full timer so i'm i'm a fan of ninety nine designs and by the way it looks like this guy mark who is just c cofounder founder because it says c cofounder of nine nine einstein's flip and site point so it's like that's pretty cool i like when people create this kinda like duo it's like yeah let's just build a bunch of companies together i find that to be like pretty inspiring and it tells you something about how somebody is to work with if somebody wants to keep going back in and at work with you again and i've talked to this guy i actually invited him to hustle con two or three different times and he committed and then some scheduling stuff happened and we wasn't weren't weren't able to make a make it happen but i've talked him on the phone he's very humble so i'm a big fan of this guy yeah me too okay so he's kinda like our our little you know internet founder of the week i don't we need a name for that that we we have the bill of the week we got the blue color side hustle we need something for just founders were badass who have done like serial serial entrepreneurs yeah this guy's is great alright you wanna you wanna do one or two more yeah let's do some other ones okay so do you know this company got rank i bet you know about and i bet most i could tell you all about them tell them tell me all about so last night alright so i've been on this i've been on this bench i got to say i've been on this bench i i'm reread the book that really got me into being like kinda like a startup founder can i can i guess can i guess yes think and grow rich no but that is a good guess especially if based on what we're talking about actually haven't read that book so i'm gonna i want to read it now after reading about guppy rink but i i'm reread five the four hour workweek week so your your bud tim ferris wrote this book i got it right when i was starting my first company so i i started my company before this once i started reading it i was like oh wow this there's people that are like me that are out there who think this way and this guy's got like systems about this i'm just i just started figuring this stuff out this guy's like but doing this for a decade break and i got what you call the four hour fever which is what happens right after if you read the book as my own term because i i've given this book to maybe fifty people since and they all get the four hour fever right after i i infect them with the book and it's long time ago we already live the four hour workweek weekly close so now we live it and so i'm went back and i'm reread it i'm like okay i'd rather yeah i wanna reread the classics and so i went back on reading and i just wanna see you know what of it do i still believe in what it do i disagree with what's changed anyway it's pretty interesting i'm i'm taking ton notes and i texted you this while i was reading it i go let's write a best selling book ten million copies sold the next four hour hour week and then you're like okay easy and i was like alright perfect because i'm serious about that i like obsessed with this so i've just been writing content i've been writing and i've been reading all week long like i i've been binge binging like i'm up till four in the morning every night doing this and i'm like pretty convinced that we could put out like an amazing amazing book so anyways that's like you know just calling my shot gonna do that we'll you'll be surprised we're gonna use well i wanna be involved let me let i sorry i i invited i wanted to do i'm it to either way but i was like what would be the best i go what if the best writer i know partner with me on this and we traded it off chapters so like i can say something i'll write a chapter and i what i want you is basically i want you to read it and then you write what you would write write after you read that so it's like you know like actually i totally agree sean with this one i have my own story of how i did that or disagree i do it totally differently and i just think that if we play off each other a little bit it could become a very interesting because there's not many books that are that are out there that i like that may all change but that's what what's in my head i also think that we should do there's one book that had a pretty fundamental change in my outlook and it's called founders at work and it was by jessica livingston the woman who started later y comb with paul graham their husband and wife and basically it was just interviews but for some reason it was really special and it was just interviews transcribed i think we could do just interviews and write our analysis and and replied to the interviews and we i i read that book on a plane i still remember it because there's a chapter they're about hotmail and i just remember reading that company being like this is awesome this is what is this what it's like to start a company or be around people that start companies this is fucking awesome and you by the way i hope this podcast ends up being that for some number of people in the world with that could be our first book if you want because that's like a pretty easy and actually amazing and could be fun i don't even care on the details i i just know ten million copies sold best seller for some people this is their version of four hour work what four work was for me i want this to be that for like a whole you know a million people out there i think that would just be amazing so let's talk about gun three rake can i tell you what i know and you could tell me if it's true or not yeah explain i i did a deep dive on them last night so alright look go in gaps alright so they are a marketing and ip owner so they own like a it's a business that markets other stuff they mostly don't develop their own products but they buy products or they license them it started by guy named steven gut three is that name guy one of them last name is gun gut gut not got and other guys last name is rank so that's and they and they started i think as early as the early eighties they are in marketing and they bought basically bought info and one of the first big hits was they bought the rights to the book thinking grow rich and they created info and direct response copywriting ads that they put magazines and they sold shit loads of this book like millions so then they just rinse repeated and then they eventually bought proactive they own proactive they own proactive and they own a bunch more they probably do a bill north of a billion in sales and they do the same type of model go ahead so so it's a info it's a direct response company which basically they made their name by doing info commercial based sales and they do about between one and a half to two billion in sales a year they own brands that you've heard they they they they brought brands to market that you've heard of like proactive also tony robbins his kind of personal power like audiobooks thinking very rich so okay so here's kind of some of the cool stuff i i i found out about them okay so how did it start one of the guys i think got he had started a company and this is how funny the world works and why really all you gotta do is just get in the game and start making shit happen because nobody could have predicted this path right so he starts a company that just does audio cassette production so all like copying so like you have a cassette you want more copies of that cassette send me the send me the original recording i'll make you a bunch of copies so it's basically like this you guy's are fucking like kin right like it's just like a printer for audio cassettes and he gets this order and this guy says hey i need two hundred to two hundred fifty oh sorry i don't know why said that small number basically the guy wanted almost almost a hundred thousand cassettes made and he goes a hundred thousand what are you making and you know and ended end up being fifty thousand copies of a cassette that was about real estate about how to make money doing real estate investments and he's like wow this is that's amazing and he looked up the company and the guy was selling through info so he goes to his buddy rank and rank at this time i think had his family owned like kind of like a a resort like a tennis resort or something like that so i think club probably comes from a good family so here goes hey dude this guy ordered for me fifty thousand copies of this cassette it's amazing forget making cassettes like let's do this info commercial thing that must be amazing and so they okay what are we gonna do we need a product and so they that's when they were like hey well what's what's something we're both into it's like they both had made their bones they both really love this book thinking and grow rates so that's when they went and bought the rights to it for a hundred thousand dollars they ended up making ten million dollars in the next three years off of sales of thinking and grow rich right they basically bought the rice something grow rich and they produced this info commercial they hire this football player frank tar to do it they go if and by the way i watched the full thirty minute info commercial last night at four in the morning i'm like i'm like watching this thing and you could find it on youtube but it has eight hundred and seventy five views on this video and basically it's this info commercial and it starts with like this production and it's basically like these peep it's kinda like testimonials but they don't tell you what the product is it's like you know i always want to just own my own business so so tired of working for somebody else and then finally i felt like this is the solution broken down into tactical steps they don't tell you an right and then it's like an interview with the founder of domino's he's like i never went to college i had the lowest gpa in my high school class but i read this book and afterwards you know like it became my blueprint for how i started domino's and like it's like it's like what's the book what's they just get you like saliva what's the book and then three minutes and frank target comes on he says you know the richest people in the world andrew carnegie and the roth child and whoever else like all these people our andrew carnegie commissioned this guy to go study what the most successful people on are the roth child and others we're doing and he went and the interviewed all of them and he packs attack all that that knowledge and wisdom into a book that's been the best seller for years it's the book that executive say is their secret weapon blah blah there's just like like such a hard sell but that's like what info commercials are it's like once you get in and you're like alright i'll bite what is it so yeah like like again i'll order the thing and so that's how they sold thinking grow rich it's just kinda of like an amazing info information i i recommend you go watch it if you're kinda like a bargaining person by the way they bought that in nineteen eighty eight so a hundred grand is the equivalent of this is true only two hundred and twenty five thousand dollars so it's only two point two x and when they what with the takeaway here should not be like i can't do that nowadays but actually the if you look at the info commercial and if you go and if you google like gut through rake info commercial down or if you just go and make your own and you look at you break it down and you like copy it word for word and you break down the sections and you apply that section to a sales letter right now it one hundred percent will continue to work right like if you see their info commercial like the lady's gonna be wearing like nineteen eighties clothes and the guys love weird were haircuts and you're like oh my god so old no it will continue to work in tv info at the time was like dirt cheap so they were babe when they did the think of grow they just bought tv space and six small tv markets and like you could buy the midnight slot the two am slot and these are basically like is essentially free they needed some programming to fill airtime and so these started not really really cheap now it's gotten much more expensive right so like let's take proactive i think proactive at it's heyday or or you know kinda like some you know maybe ten year old data at this point but they were spending about two hundred fifty million dollars a year just on the media buying so just on the info commercial space and then they're spending like because if you go if you watch a product if think it's like justin bieber was there like signature person right because proactive was basically saying hey teens you don't need you don't have to have acne you can get rid of your acne this way and justin bieber was like you the teen idol with great skin and so it was like justin bieber and adam levine and like you know the in the maroon five guy like this all these people right britney i don't know who else it was but they they would get paid five to ten million dollars to appear in a proactive info commercial like crazy money for for an influencer like that's a big influencer spend and so this is just influencer marketing done like at level twelve as i like to right like what is the what is the maxed out version of this proactive is the maxed out version of it and so they own like a bunch of brands they handle own like globe by jl lo like if you want jl lo skin by jl lo glow then it's like oh you want this other supermodel skin by her thing is a very much around skin skincare because that i guess is like one of the like you you know that's like the sweet spot of like price big market and celebrity endorsements go a long way the two big niches are fitness or i would say three skincare fitness self help so like tony robbins became like a household name using this on the self help side on the fitness side they had a bunch of different brands and that beach body took the same playbook and they created p x and the beach body program using the same same idea they became competitors there's a guy i'm trying to think of what what's the called it's called a mind something i'm trying to look it up but basically there's got it's not mind body but it's similar to that word i can't remember what it was valley it's mind valley yeah to do exactly what i was talking about there's kinda like philippines or thailand i i know where they're based some of yeah there's some i don't wanna be disrespectful but there's some weird stuff going on with this company i don't know what the truth is but basically if you look at this company mind valley mind valley dot com he does this now and basically this company what they do they probably do fifty million a year in sales and what they do is they buy programs from people so they have one called life book one called o i think that's a yoga thing and then they have ever coach which is i actually don't know what some of these services are but they have a bunch of these and what they do is they find people who have like a yoga course or some type of program on so they have programs on sleep they've got programs on yoga on meditation health wellness and hippie dip shit you know it's like a combination of like very legit to like you know like tan astrology or whatever you know like it it could be anything and they're experts on long form copywriting routing which is basically an info commercial and they're really good at buying traffic and they make tens of millions of dollars a year in revenue all bootstrap and so if you wanna look at the internet version of this there's also which is at one point five billion dollars and another version of this is we had like i craig is craig clement we had a guy named craig clement his business is called golden hip they own i think eight or nine brands and i think if i remember correctly didn't he say they do like mid nine figures in revenue yeah i think i think golden hip or buddy craig company i think it's on par with got rink in terms of like sort of like success i i think other rink does does over a billion in sales so you know it's it's the next level but golden hip is that from the internet for the for the internet instead of instead of tv and commercials they basically just do it with like long form blogs and then long form embedded video so if you ever like go down the rabbit hole like i've tried to i've tried to figure out like look at some of his brands they hide their brands they hide really very hard to find but when you do find one you're like oh okay and then it's hard to find where the advertising it's like okay so they buy a display ad through taboo on some random article and it's for a tok cream they toe fungus removal and then you click that and then you watch a forty minute video that auto plays with no pause or skip button and then by the end of you're like goddamn like you know if you ended up making it there europe almost certainly gonna buy this token and then you subscribe to the sms is and whether you get like text messages from this legit doctor who you know is the face of the brand it's kinda like the the the the you know like rhode fields is another one which spun out of gut rake it's basically like two they created proactive so i think it's two dermatologists that created the formula for proactive and then they left to created band fields which is a multi level marketing company that does this that created their own they created a new formulations of this one when they owned you know a hundred percent i think that's a multi billion dollar company as well so and if you're on your computer listening to this one of golden hip brands is called gun md i think doctor steven gun a lot of people he's kind of famous i think he's not famous in my world but i think he's famous in like kinda of mainstream world actually yeah gun m d dot com is our website go to that website and look at this website and it they make it look like it's a small like google's for you to pop thing first thing peak mobility plus all about mobility you you have and even tell dog food it's like it's it's a pretty wild business and i think this is their most popular brand this brand if you told me it does a hundred million in sales actually wouldn't be surprised but if you didn't know better you go to it you would have no idea right and this is all about like gut health plant based you know plant based eating stuff like that and so like you know i get their text messages all the time like don't you know don't get leaky gut syndrome like i by this thing and and so you know it's very fascinating and and the reason i like bringing these up or like what you brought i i think all the companies you brought up today are cool because if you work in our are like most of our friends who are like successful internet entrepreneurs tech people silicon valley executives at big tech companies they will have never heard of any of this in fact i did a breakdown of one of golden hip flows and i sent it to all the execs at twitch i go hey i went down the rabbit hole of this like you they laughed it they were just like fascinating and they went back to doing like you know spending millions of dollars on facebook ads it's just a download twitch and it's like okay like you know like is there any creativity we could do here like to to try to like like i just showed you one of the most creative things and like nobody really cared nobody asked any follow up questions some people were just like cool send to me send job centers it it it was it's crazy to me and so like so i i feel like there's a lot you can learn from from these kinda under the radar brands or non traditional and a lot of people just write them off they're like oh info commercial s affiliate marketing s ml s and like you may be right about like the the sort of like the that these aren't the best products that they're maybe the best sold products but look i'm trying to get great at sales so why would i not look at the best sold products it's like a no brainer to me this was a good one i yeah i think this it's a good one this is definitely sort of like unusual slash potentially gray hat trust and un trust un trust the business is you know i think it's i think it's gonna be entertaining so yeah can we wrap up with what well let me wrap up first of all gone three rake is amazing i would love to see your notes on that if you can share them the also i wanna wrap up with the one thing that you on twitter you said you wouldn't call me to invest in your company because i'm risk adverse you you said this and i want to explain myself because that was a dig at me i don't think you meant to be rude but i took it as you being rude and i think that a lot of of our friends call me this as well you guys are so wrong i just don't take dumb it so here's here's my philosophy listen here's my philosophy i so from age twenty i said by thirty i'm gonna make enough money that i never have to worry about money ever again or not and so that's when i started my company many would say that was incredibly risky i would say compared to the average show it was but it wasn't that risky the reality it wasn't that risky then i got the money and i invest in safe stuff but here's the thing when i find shit that i love i go all in on it i just what you and a lot of our friends do is they go they go tool they spread their shit like wild i'd try to go all in on a couple of things so i think i don't think i'm risky a risk adverse i think that i just pick and choose them differently yeah that's true like okay let's say let's say was starting a company and i think i think i know what your answer would be let's see if i was starting a company and let's say i either didn't have an idea i just i'm gonna start a company or i said it's gonna be in this space but i don't know exactly what or i said an idea that you're like i don't even get that or that sounds kind of dumb or fuzzy to me would you just invest then or would you wanna wait because you know i would let you at any point so you're like you could well what what what i would ask one question are you going all in and it's gonna be your only thing yeah yeah if the answer is if the answer is yes i would really that wouldn't raise money when you i wouldn't even ask the valuation i would just say okay so that's what i think the answer is and that's kind of the to so the person asked a good question i did a a twitter kinda like don't know like where i was like you just shoot be your questions my wife took the kids out to target i got an hour i want some immediate rush of twitter love let's just do do some q a and the person said you're raising money for a company who you're who who's the first person you call and i i said i i said like here's my first five phone calls and i basically name them name them i don't really remember what i said so i i i saw you sue sue ali i totally agree with that he's an amazing operator very good investor scott be amazing investor good signal to everyone the third was just a callback i think i had on there who's i don't know him well but he's an amazing investor and then i had biology i i had on there that put ba of again okay obvious reasons yeah pretty pretty i had one more person who else is on there and i can't find the tweet i forget who that fifth person was as well that's funny but i i'm not offended that i didn't make that list i'm offended that people think that i'm risk burst and and i had a friend text goes do people think your risk adverse and i was like i think they do but i think that the first i had was michael burt the person who backed to me with my previous company so that yeah that would be my first so here's my like in reality you know i'm answering these questions fast in reality i would actually not like two people who would two people who i would not actually go to first would not be scott be biology right because two reasons i don't actually know them that well they're not like my homie east they're like for you know like bo i kids consider like yeah we're kinda of friends but we never like hung out to scott be same sort of thing like even even even more distance actually and so like you know respect but you know i can't say this is like my my homie and so in reality my first five calls would be to to like you su michael birch you know ramon like a bunch of our like my true friends who have like hey i'm doing something like totally it i like family exactly and so that's like the true answer for twitter you know i kind of like i didn't wanna put only people that people would not like not recognize their names you know inside but a couple of people that they would know in there and there's also kind of aspirational like who would i want to be in my company i think scott be is an amazing product person so i think that's just like an amazing person to have on there i think volunteered and he's like the greatest and i'm he's one of the best angel and buses right he's done well and i think he's well connected so i think that's useful to have and i think biology also is like a different kind of signal so super obviously like hyper intelligent he's lit comes from the future so that's helpful in general and i think that and i think that having him adds credibility because if you only have your friends there it doesn't help you get the next investor on board necessarily because they look at who else is invested and if they don't see a name that they recognize that they respect that they don't it hasn't been like kind of like they don't see the harvard stamp of approval on there so you need that mix in there so that's my justification for but yeah in reality of course we'd call you i know but you said i don't care about that care about i told other people that you're risk first i think that's crazy i think i put the smiley face that means it's a joke the smiley face speeds it's a joke oh my god do you think that i'm re and and to just i'm been gonna wrap it up with how much scott be scott be his grandpa started kaplan kaplan really no way i did not know it yeah his his grandpa started kaplan sold that for like eighty or a hundred million dollars and like i think the eighties are nineties so it's like you know that's like the equivalent of like three hundred dollars then when he was twenty four he invested fifteen thousand dollars into pinterest when it was worth three million dollars and fifteen thousand dollars into uber when it was worth three million dollars he did this while he was running his company called be which was mostly bootstrap until like six months before they sold it they raised a a series a but prior to that it was bootstrap and when he sold it he owned i think seventy five percent of it he sold it like a hundred and fifty million dollars and then so he made probably a hundred million from the sale probably a hundred million on uber and a hundred million on pinterest or give or take fifty percent and now he's next in line to become ceo at adobe gangster sir which is like the fort largest company in then the world yeah total gangster and good dude just fun fun hang which is you know yeah yeah yeah financially successful whenever i met with i met with him a while ago and like he's like really good looking he dresses really nice and he's like fucking dreamy he's like so optimistic and so happy and whenever he like talk was looks like dude whatever you say he it looks like the guy from maroon five adam dream exactly it looks like that guy he's very good looking and he's nice as hell he's really nice yeah okay we should we should wrap it up before we just totally you know totally for day for bell i trying to think of something that would like be appropriate to say of my mine only went to dirty words so i'm gay for be i'm hardcore gay room i like them alone alright we're out of here i feel like i where i know could be what i want to never back