#213 - How to Build a Community

the dominant way to advertise is not super high production value finely produced content it's what we call it's selfie content right yeah i feel like i could rule to world i know i could be what i want to i'll put it all in it like a days off on a road travel never looking back alright let's do it we're here what's going on what's that man okay you wanna jump in a little bit of chat how you wanna do it i wanna tell you a quick story so our fred can we the the guy who emailed hotels and ask for discounts can we name them or not no okay well he he's our friend he emailed hotels for a european trip and he got some crazy good deals he got like a three thousand dollar room for like three hundred and fifty dollars so i'm in new york i need a place to stay from september first to september twenty fifth i made a list of twenty hotels and i emailed them and these hotels probably would cost me maybe fifteen to twenty thousand for that period so like a thousand dollars a night i'm getting some at like three hundred and fifty bucks four hundred dollars a night it's working that's amazing and what's the what's the gist of the email i have something that's unfair so i say hey my name sam par i am in town for three months but i need to place a stay from september person to december twenty first i need a relatively big room because i record this podcast called my first million and we have about i say like a million listeners a month and we record it with videos so i need to look really nice also write this daily email that goes out to two million people it's so like i i need a comfortable place to work for my home right my budget is three hundred and fifty dollars a night can you help me and and that works so why aren't they giving to you for free bro that's big influencer or shit you should be getting there for free i don't know i i i'm i'm happy to pay for i don't wanna be a total mood i just wanna discount is it's not mo where you're gonna give a shout right whoever no i won't i wouldn't give them a shout out just because it get me a place to say i i'd only give me you do you shout people out because they i mean i get given stuff all the time and when people give me stuff and they and then they ask for a shout i i say i don't know f off yeah actually the other day there's a company that i'm using their product so i reached out to him i was like hey i can name them i can i think i can name i think this should be fine so so basically i use this thing called passport it's like international shipping company so you either just say you have a brand you wanna ship products to france or uk or australia or whatever each country has its own little problems with shipping with customs with tax with you know finding the right carrier to to get a low low shipping cost there all that so these guys take care of it so i'm like this is a great product great idea so i emailed the ceo alex and was like hey man like this is great we're gonna use it but how do i invest also and he's like oh like you know we're not really raising around right now and i was like please and he was like he's like you know what like i think you've already been pretty helpful because he made some intros i think you can do some i think you can do more he's like i don't wanna fuss with paperwork like honestly it's just a big headache how about i give you some free shares and i was like i was like perfect like that's amazing because this like a legit company not like oh here's adviser shares in my no name no revenue no no user company like this is a real company and it's a very small amount but i was like he's so smart because he used sent me an email he goes hey dude sad to have you board just sign this return it he goes here's kind of my expectations like what would make this a win for me is a b and c and they're all like totally reasonable requests but he just made it clear what he wants and i was like dude you couldn't have paid me to do these things but just by giving me something free i feel the need to reciprocate by like over delivering on this for you i would rather in in retrospect i would rather just buy my shares and not have any obligations but cool i'm glad we did it this way this is gonna be more fun and ultimately smart move by you so that's called the law reciprocity so there's been a lot of studies on this and if you read the book influenced by robert cha den it's a it's basically been proven through a lot of different studies so a great example if we're next door neighbors and i say hey sean here you know i i i had i ordered pizza and and they gave me two here's an extra one if you'd like right okay so i did something for you i gave you something the next day i go hey my i don't have a car can i borrow your car for an hour you are actually incredibly likely to let me borrow the car even though those two favors are not at all equal right in order to make like this rule works regardless of if they're equal or not it just if someone owes you want you wanna pay them back in some capacity and you'll do it in the first possible chance you have so it's actually a great rule and when i used to buy stuff so what when i would buy cars i would always come with two i wrote a blog post i would come with two cans of coke and i would have one like a i break hey i you know they they had a failed i and they had sale you you want you you thirsty was them a drink and i would get discounts like that through buying stuff dude that's great that the the c can hack is awesome yeah i actually now i'm so like aware of it that i have to fight my inner tendency to want free shit so like if somebody wants to send me something i'm like not only do i don't wanna give out my address anymore i'm just like i don't want to feel like i need to reciprocate anything to you so like it's it's actually not worth it for me to take these things like this is different because i think this company is gonna be really big and i i really respect the the founder but but now i'm like somebody hands with that diet coke no no thank you sir alright like i i it's it's not like i think they're trying anything it's just i don't wanna have any a odd inner balance sheet i don't wanna have any debts i only want assets on that inner inter in my internal balance agree i completely agree i do the exact same thing if someone offer or if they offer me something and i do want it for example someone sent me something for my dog because his hips were hurting and i was like i'm gonna give you a shout out if i if i think that the things like life changing i'll talk about it just casually but like in no way are you you're just doing me you're get this is a gift not a a payment exactly alright so let's let's jump into some ideas or some what do you wanna talk about i wanna talk to you about a couple things i want you to teach me about something that do you do you wanna talk about this two things friends with benefits are you prepared to discuss that yeah yeah we could talk about it because this is your realm but this is it's totally your world but it's the first time i've seen something in this space that actually interests me and i think exactly i'd like well okay so first explain what it is and then i'll tell you but basically and i'll tell you why i'm interested but basically it's like the the first time i've seen this technology used in a useful way that isn't just gimmicky right yeah okay i know i know what you mean and ironically this is the one that i think i'm interested but i'm like i really get it and then i like move on so so it's cool we're around the other end of this okay so what is this friends with benefits is a it's space community it's a membership club that was created by this guy in la that you know he was a he was a c cofounder of company called brood and they they make lil michael mckay that instagram influencer who's a who's just like a digital avatar it's like it looks like a kinda looks like a a real girl but like clearly it's kinda of digital and so they're using like disney pixar style technology to make influencers on instagram that's the company so he creates friends benefits he's basically like alright this like a digital soho house basically we're gonna invite only cool people in and you basically buy the friends of benefit token in order to enter so you buy this token called f and so there's a million f out there and you buy in and you know in order to get access to the to the met to the club which is basically just a discord group right it's not like there's nothing there's no physical place to go there's no like perks or discounts or whatever it's basically it's literally like you get to go into our discord and talk to other members here and and so they were selling this thing it was like seventy five tokens or something to join at the beginning yeah which was like i don't know exactly what it was but i think it was more like a hundred dollars when it started and now that thing is that's like a four thousand dollar membership to join that same because the token has appreciated like crazy so the the token even just we were gonna talk about this last podcast and i was like ninety one dollars hang on i'm gonna talk to somebody who knows about the stuff let's do it in the next episode wow it's up forty six percent since it's last weeks and when we talked about this and so that that means it's sixty eight sixty eight hundred twenty five dollars yeah so the membership is is roughly seven grand now and to join and you know like e equifax it was which like you know a high end gym in in la new york s f where you could go to this like fancy gym with has spa team room members whatever e e e growth e x is twenty four hundred dollars i think three twenty four hundred dollar maybe three thousand dollars so so this is double that now to get into the discord so obviously you can tell i'm a little bit skeptical just to put some more numbers around it just to give you a sense of how big this is so basically this is now a ninety million dollar market cap community i think the founders tokens are like i i don't know exactly how much he holds but roughly i think the guy has like forty or fifty million dollars of his token now the the the thing that's that's which is you know exciting but you can't sell that's the real problem you can technically go sell on a market but on uni swap you can go can go sell this thing but you practically speaking if the founder started to sell because he's like sweet i wanna bank ten million from this i think it would a crash the price and be send a negative signal or as they call in the crypto world like it's a it's it's a rug pull you pull the rug out from under the people who believed in you and bought into this thing and you base screw them all over and so this is like when i bought your bit clout and then you sold all your bit clout and it's like oh fuck i'm holding this empty bag that sam cashed out of i bought his token and i believe didn't have sorry i did that so that would be well i don't even know if i i know if i actually did but but but plenty of people did and at you right now on bit cloud let's say i have i think my token i have like fifty thousand dollars of my own token cool my current usage of bit count big cloud is pretty low my my belief and like it becoming the next big thing is you know it started off like a a long shot and now i'd say it's a longer shot so i would love to go sell that but doing so would basically screw over the people who invested in my tokens i'm not gonna do it like i'm in it for the long haul so i think that's the challenge with this model is on paper you get this big gain but in reality i don't know how much they're gonna how much value they can reach out of this so high level tell me tell me some things yeah so i'm gonna tell you why i think this is actually incredibly interesting friends with benefits itself it's not that's not interesting to me basically if you look at it it's just like really good looking dudes and and ladies who are like going like and hanging out like it's like a hip young la new york type of thing i don't really have too much faith in those types of of businesses that are there they're more jokes to me than they are actual real businesses would you say that's accurate why is it a joke because i don't know if this is run like a like when i when i see i'm like oh you're just gonna run this like a like an art project not necessarily like are are you a party promoter is this a night club so either it's a fad right because of the problem with cool exclusive things is when you try to grow them they become less cool unless exclusive because you're letting more people in who you know who so it comes it comes less less tight knit the other thing is are you doing this because you wanna be a cool guy or are you doing this because it's actually like a really solid business and underneath i that's kind of the other thing you're talking about which is like my point what are your sort of intentions with this thing do i take it seriously or no but and here's the butt so the thing about communities communities are great companies the problem with them though is that they're challenging to scale the more people who join oftentimes the worst it gets that's like that's yeah that's law of communities but why are you saying that communities are great businesses i would say communities are not great businesses what communities do you think are great business well let's define what these are all general generations let's define how we mean great when i say great i don't mean it's really hard to be huge huge like north of a hundred north of a billion dollars but like they could make someone ten million to twenty million in sales a year at a pretty good profit margin and you can use that profit to build more stuff so for example trends i didn't realize it at the time but had i still owned it or the hustle we could've turned that into trends as a paid community we could've have turned it into an investment vehicle to invest in cool startups ups things like that yep and so that's why it would it would've have been great for me to own even though it may not be huge in itself it would have led to opportunities and it could have been quite profitable you know i could've have paid myself millions of dollars a year because of it so but that's my definition of great now what's interesting about friends benefits is they use a software called cal collab land have you looked at cal collab yeah well actually they used to use a different platform they used to use role i think so so roll was their old platform then i got role got hacked and and so all the all the tokens that were built under roll all the social tote tokens of are built on role crashed when that happened so i guess they switched over to collab land so collab land is cool because the thing about communities is the more people who join the sometimes the worst it gets and so why this is interesting to me is that people are incentivized to stay and make the community valuable because their value goes up even if they don't necessarily wanna sell it well i actually do think that like one or two people could sell their their thing their their token and if they wanna bail but they're incentivized to make the community better and i think that's a great model i really actually think this model is amazing so so so i thought about this two two different ways so let's first do let's first do let's break it into three parts there's what is this and why is this interesting there's how big could this be and then there's what other shit could you do like this what do you think the future looks like so let's do what is this and how big is so so i would say we we we kind of way friends benefits it's a social token used to create a membership club the membership cost now seven thousand dollars it's really appreciated like crazy you know friends with benefits if you hold that token like ben ben is a member so ben got in at like probably a hundred or a couple hundred bucks membership he never uses so he's like the discord is super noisy like i'd have to like really go spend time in there to like make friends and do all the stuff i'm too busy for all that so like i'd never i basically never go in there but he's like it's cool because i hold this token is going up so i have this like seat in the club and i could sell that if i wanna do or i could use it if i wanna do so he's like it's kind of cool he he bought it kind of like just to just to play with the technology just to play with like this new experiment so so these are called social tokens the idea is that you know any creator any set of creators could create one of these so you know the paul brothers i think have had like the maverick club i think nope the note boys have their own club and these are just like you know traditional you pay a monthly subscription and you get access to insider content so this is basically owning instead of renting so instead of renting your spot in the club through a monthly fee you own your spot in the club and there's a limited number of spots and then that's an asset that you could then flip later to somebody else if you wanna get out of the club and you want somebody else to take your spot and i think everyone awesome and everyone is aligned and it becomes instead of a expense it becomes an investment so i think that is a switch that gets flipped right instead of a nine nine dollars a month okay cool i paid nine hundred dollars but i own this thing and if i was correct admitting that like let's say we made one for my first million right if if we if they were correct embedding that this like let's say nine months ago they're like oh i think this podcast is gonna get bigger well guess what it did and if there was only whatever a thousand spots in our in our private club in our private group but we're sharing either insights deals making introductions between people that sort of thing it's a community of people that could be pretty valuable right like there's a pretty strong case why we should create one of these for the like kind of fans of the show that are like hardcore members right and then they own it and then they say alright cool the more popular sean and sam get the more people are gonna wanna get into this club and my thousand dollar seat i'm gonna get value from it today and then i might flip it for three grand or ten grand two years from now or a year from now that's like the promise yeah and and i think that's a great idea now let me put something in perspective so did did you know that soho house went public recently i saw you put this here so i started doing some research on it pretty pretty fascinating and go break it down yeah so soho house it doesn't have to be a bad business but it is so soho house is basically a member's only club it's basically a country club but instead of a golf course you get access to like a library it's feeling building like a with a bar in a restaurant and maybe a pool maybe sometimes have a gym and it's basically in new york la probably paris london it's in we're all like rich cool young people live it costs about two thousand of three thousand dollars a joined depending on how old you are and they have a hundred thousand members and they recently went public at a three billion dollar market cap and the reason why their business isn't great is they took on a lot of debt covid really hurt them and i think maybe it's slightly mis mismatched but it's not a bad putting some numbers around that i think they had like nine hundred million dollars of debt from because they're buying real estate in the most prime locations right there they have real estate or either the leases were on own i don't know which one in like you manhattan la not san francisco out london so they had eight hundred seventy million i think of debt and then during covid they fur load ninety percent of their workforce i think so they fur ninety percent the workforce they only churn ten percent of members because a the members are kinda of wealthy and whatever and b they like offered other perks like kinda like digital perks to try to come up with other ideas because you can go into the building and and do your soho house like you know you know ming or whatever whatever people do at these places and so the reason why friends of benefit interests me is i don't care about this i don't care about that company like i said i don't think that they're gonna run it like a proper company but if you were going to i think i would do the soho house model or i try to have buildings that are really nice and you really wanna come and it's ran like a proper company i would one hundred percent do it this way that takes a lot of risk you know like i gotta make sure that these members this the membership stays valuable but it incentivize me to make my make it great from my members and i could use some of that money to buy buildings and i think so i think that i would use this model for a soho style membership yeah so so what do you think about us doing it why why would you or why wouldn't you do it i think that it makes a ton of sense there's really only one reason why you wouldn't do it which is do you wanna more work yeah right pretty much the only and it's like the thing we were talking about the very beginning like reciprocity if somebody gets you a diet coke you feel like you kind of yeah alright cool i'll kinda hook up there's as soon if somebody becomes a member of your club you feel obligated to make a really fucking awesome club you're like i will not sleep until this club is until you feel like you're you're getting the the edge on this deal by ten x unfortunately that's the way my personality is wired and i think you're the same and so it's like oh good do i wanna over deliver on something right i don't yeah i gotta i gotta think before commit to that because yeah commercial before that's the only reason why you wouldn't do it but if you wanted to run this like a company and you wanted to create a c working space and you wanted to do it with this model i think that's a that's a i wouldn't say easy but it's a very interesting path to build something quite big yeah and i don't know if i agree with you that you has to have a physical space i don't really think it's that it's more like you have to have value so okay so soho house is valuable because it's a place you can go it's kinda like a third place you can see you know you know that everybody who else who's theirs is cool so i think for this like the idea of having a digital community at discord or slack facebook group whatever where everybody's cool like you've seen this with trends that's pretty valuable people people dig that they they think about that like with trends you produced research reports so you're gonna get access to in intel intelligence about the market that's interesting to you cool that that works too there's also other stuff like for example i think that being able to access deals and deal flow is like pretty important to people or at least a certain set of people who have more more sort of money than than good investments good investment opportunities around them and then the last piece is you could also do this with you could sort of like auction off time in a way so like there's a world where we basically would say alright we create a friends with benefit token and with that token comes you're gonna get access to me and sam like right now that token gets you one hour with me and sam and so we create basically a thousand booked out book hours when we mint these tokens but you also know that our times is gonna become more valuable and you wanna use it when you when when it's really important to you and so that's gonna appreciate in value over time as our you know elon musk in two thousand his time was easier to book than it is today today it's basically priceless basically cannot pay any amount of money there might be some huge amount of money that you'd have to pay to get an hour of his time with with him not getting anything else in return and so so i think that's the other thing you could offer a value is basically time with people of value and that time could be like an investment you're basically betting today that i wanna i wanna hold a block of of sam's kind of like advice or coaching or or you know just hang out time because i think that's gonna go up with value over time yeah so anyway it interests me and and and i i think we're a line there can i tell you about one more interesting thing that is related to rich people i yeah so have you ever heard of this company called wealth x no what is it okay so every year wealth is at wealth x is a company is a database company and what they do is they basically use publicly available records so property records and and and sometimes you can get people's tax returns things like that and they look for people who are ultra high net worth ultra high net worth is defined as thirty million dollars in assets and they create this massive database i believe there's eight hundred to or seven hundred thousand people in the world that are considered ultra high net worth and all they do is they comb through loads of different data and then they have independent researchers who work their hardest to verify that this is true and the reason why i discovered this is for years wealth is famous every year they put together a study that says here's how the wealthy are investing their assets and they create this end of year asset allocation they say wealthy people have this much in goal this much in real estate whatever and i think that this is an interesting business and it was actually recently acquired by a publicly traded company so i was able to look back at their at their numbers and i actually think that a company like this is shockingly easy to start and i think this company under sold so they sold for twenty million dollars in cash they were doing about twelve million in revenue with eight hundred thousand dollars in profit if i was the founder of this company i never would have sold they sell this to people for fifteen thousand or to other companies for fifteen thousand dollars a year for subscription access and they basically are selling it to people who manage people's money so right wealth and like things like this but the interesting thing to me in the takeaway to this if you're listening i think this model of business this data business we've called this i think we said that that messy data wants to be free is that or sorry data wants to be free data wants to be free yeah data wants to be free and and and and and the founder free doesn't mean free price wise it wants to be it's like trapped and it wants to be let free facing correct and the founder of cb insights that does kinda like this for publicly or for privately held companies he told me the same thing he goes our whole motto motto motto is there's a bunch of dirty muddy data out there and we're gonna go and find it and just make it really easy to consume that's what wealth did i'm am just pretty certain i read the glass to reviews i'm pretty certain that this business is amazingly easy to copy and to figure out so the ways that they get data is they'll they'll tell you they'll look at who owns a jet they'll figure out who's donating money so if you donate money to a non nonprofit oftentimes that's made public if you're buying personal property if you have certain hobbies if you don't get on the list they don't know how much you have but they're like oh sam paul big donation must have money alright put them on the list yeah they look at per they look at what so if you're part of tiger glow what's they called tiger twenty one if you if you have certain interest certain hobbies of donate money that that's how they get their information it's just not that hard to build this type of business now right and it's hard to sell but everything's hard to sell if you're you're gonna get on the phones and you gotta call people even can guys sell some fifteen grand that's always hard but by creating the data out of your blogs i think this is such a straightforward business if you wanted to make some money so so so they didn't make a ton of money now and why is that so this seems like like cb insights is a big business i don't i don't know what inc what what's is it worth million dollars worth that or making that revenue revenue yeah exactly it's worth probably closer to a billion dollars then yeah we'll more by the way founder listens to the pod shout out to an on i think i think he's a he's pretty fabulous so that that business worked in a much bigger way but same principle like you're saying right data's is there it's muddy we go dig it up we wash it off we rinse it we polish it we package it we say here you go here's that data you've been looking for it was here like yeah you could have gone and got it yourself but man you don't wanna go scrub through that mud oh let us do that for you let us organize this whole thing so you just type in the name you wanna know about type in the industry you wanna know about and bam here's the info and so that business work why is it is it because financial advisers that there weren't enough of them no there's a lot of them weren't willing to pay for this info why do you think this business didn't work and what would you do differently it probably didn't work because they probably just hired a ton of people to make this stuff so whenever if you go to the website you can kinda tell us some of their technologies jan what i would do is i would use something like import dot io or another third party service like that and i wouldn't build too much technology i would only have my only technology that i would build was a pretty interface that pulls it all together but i think you could build most of this stuff using zapier import dot io o air table things like that i think that you could build like a pretty robust mvp that you charge money for using things like this and so i they probably didn't make money because they probably their staff was just bloated staff the company was founded in two thousand and ten so when they launched a lot of this technology that third party technology wasn't available and so i think they just have a bloated staff that was mostly doing manual work to go and find these types of people mh yeah okay i can see that this is cool service i never actually heard of wealth x so i'm gonna go read the report i think that's that's pretty dope by the way i wanna say one other thing on the community side that we were talking about going back i don't think communities are great big businesses that's what i mean community of communities of communities can be great big businesses discord is a community of communities reddit is a community of communities and both of those are like ten billion ish sized companies and so if you can build and so that's why i actually think collab land like if was gonna put money somewhere i go put it in collab land not in friends with benefits that they same page the platform you're using to launch all these different communities that has the to be much bigger than any one of these random tokens i don't know who the fuck is buying friends and benefits this might be a thing that they could just manipulate themselves by the way i have no idea i think you know these thinly traded things could be potentially i'm saying they did i'm just saying who the heck is bidding up the price like this it doesn't make a ton of sense to me but but yeah my my main point is that community of communities are better businesses than an individual one once a community wants a technology company so my point of bringing it up was collab i would rather invest in but i wouldn't yeah i think that you can own a community that does ten or twenty in sales and is profitable but yeah you're not gonna you're not gonna knock it out the park with that business alright what you that alright let's do another one let's do okay i have a little like hot girl side hustle so we've done blue collar side hustle we've done teenage you know the puberty side side hustle and now this is my hot girl side hustle so i'm just trying to identify simple things that anybody who's in a certain demographic can do that will generate you know ten to fifty thousand dollars a month of profit without big upfront cost or like specific hard skills that you need to have and i'm not gonna say only fans although that is definitely a hot side hustle so this high side hustle is a little bit different there are don't know if you you kind of follow this much actually you do because i think you guys run ads like this the dominant way to advertise for products now because your advertising on social networks the dominant way to advertise is not super high production value finely produced content it's what the call yeah it's it's selfie content right u is what they call it i call it selfie because it's u see who the fuck does what that means so user generated content basically and they're not so it's doing companies aren't just doing this on social at this point if you look at a commercial on tv for chime it's the same thing well yeah the digital first companies when they go to tv like chime right first spent a hundred million dollars on digital and now they go do their first tv spot and their whole company been trained of like hey you know what works when it just looks like a normal person talking because an ad people just get sort of blind to an ad that just delays right over it and so what works really well like i see this with with you guys with morning brew which basically like it's a tiktok ad and the person's like you know my secret to getting my boss to think i'm super smart and then it's like i fucking i so i subscribe to the hustle and it's like that gives me the news every morning know look really smart that that that ad crashes that tagline line like so morning brew does it the sci does if the hustle does it all of everyone who's in the the the email space does that you know who invented that or who who first used that line no i wrote that i wrote that i wrote that i stole it from an old ad book i wrote that in two thousand and sixteen i think i stole from an old ad book of like something about a guy being a piano player there was like a piano lesson ad from the nineteen sixties about being a great piano player he goes he thinks i'm naturally a great piano player i'm not i really just use this this less than or this way of learning music think and i took that and i apply applied it here now everyone uses it well that's kinda of genius because that's not even like a word for word right that's actually like quite a different thing but you got inspired by it yeah it's called swipe file so i keep swipe file so i keep digital files of all my favorite favorite old ads so for for example there's just one great ad about the wall from the wall street journal and they it's made them like fifty million dollars from recurring revenue and it was launched in like the seventies and it was called like the tale of two young men and it was like both of these young men went to the same college they had similar jobs one did this and one did that one earned this one earned that but were the difference one bought the wall street journal subscription their freshman year of college and that's like the whole the story of the ad and it like the headline is like the the why did these two young men do the almost the exact same thing but ends so oh so like we're we should run that same ad for the podcast and we should be like basically that one listens to one listens five first million one didn't one became a millionaire by thirty and the other one you know still still like hoping that retirement kicks in you know at sixty five we should run that matt then we should when you click it we should tell the backstory story of the ad basically and and it's a great story it's a great right so i keep a file full of these types of so anyway go ahead the way if people wanna see go to swipe file dot com our friend neville owns swipe file dot com which is a great little domain to have and he's built like a pretty fucking awesome wordpress digital swipe out i wish mine was like that my mine is like in my notes app and i have a slack channel that's where i keep my swipe but like if i could i would i would have on like that but he's got tons of great stuff there okay going to actually this marketing thing by the way that kinda wanna give you more props that's kind of a genius way to market the hustle right so how would a normal person to purchase it would say hustle it's a daily newsletter so i'm gonna say sign it for our daily newsletter get the news delivered to you every morning right like that they would focus on the product and you focused on basically the happy ending and even the happy ending you didn't just say and now you're informed because that doesn't like get people emotionally to like register at all right what you're basically saying is what's the outcome you want you wanna look smart in front of your boss you wanna look smart at work we help you look smart at work you know read the hustle if you wanna look smart at work you like drew this line is that how you think about it that's how i think about it how do you think about or exactly what's your framework basically one user told me one time that they were in a job interview for lyft and they brought up a certain line like a certain story at the end of an interview that wasn't going well and that created a relationship with this person interviewing her and it's like oh okay great i'm in this person's head we were able to have chat thank you also you maybe look smart and so the idea here is i wanted a story but i had i only wanted to be able to tell that story in like two hundred characters and so i believe the original ad was like my boss thinks of a smart parenthesis i'm not the hustle my secret weapon to trick them though it's working wonderfully try it or something like that and so now that that was the whole idea behind behind the ad that's mesa that ad has reached three hundred million people i think at this point yeah and then everybody copied it but you know whatever you can you do it you get it too so okay what was was talking about before that i was you bad about oh take tiktok okay so so you know as what i was trying to get to was basically that girl side hustle the i'm trying to get to is almost all digital advertisers have realized that this selfie style content that looks like native content if you're on tiktok it's gotta look like it's gonna be a funny or cute or interesting or amazing video or if it's on instagram it's got gotta look like an instagram post on facebook i gotta look like a facebook post those perform better than your professional commercials your professional ads that look highly polished people just skip past the poly stuff because they're looking for entertainment so you have to look like the type of entertainment that looks like that's native on the platform so this has created a shortage of people who can create great on script on brand selfie content and so i know this for our brand but many many brands everybody is trying to farm this out to either influencers or agencies the agencies are like look we we can run your ads but like making this creative takes a lot time and energy and thought and like we don't have actors and like a place nice house to do this in so the hot girl side hustle is this there's this girl entrepreneur twitter her name's social savannah if you go look her up she's like a kind of like a i'll i'll help your brand grow through facebook ads through tiktok ads and she's what she's not doing or what she does somewhat of but it's not the important part is like i do brand strategy i do advertising strategy well guess what a lot a lot of agencies pitch that same thing we will we will manage your role run your ads we'll be your ad ad agency what she does that's different issue basically is it's her and i think she has like a couple of other like girls with her that do this they'll like send us the product and then we'll take a bunch of these selfie videos and we will be the actor in your content and because i know what ads work i know what to say on here and i just look like an average person and that's why this ads gonna work because i just look like an person i'm not like i like i have i i can make i can get somebody's attention when they're trolling i don't look like an actor in a set with a perfect for professional camera and a professional background i look like a girl in our house so this is my if you're a college student if you're a college girl specifically there are huge number of brands that will pay you don't try to become instagram famous become instagram ad famous and what that means is be the person who can take any product and just do a demo a sales pitch and a testimonial and create branded ad content and you can charge thousands of dollars a month and you can charge even a percentage of the ad spend for this which is kind of insane if you're good how much do you think flow from the progressive commercial gets paid your oh my god i i don't even know this depends how good her agent is but you know they're spending tens of millions easily on that campaign she's like a branded part of it like if you if you switched out flow it'd be like hey wait that's not flow who the heck is that it's like you don't know this but there's this children's cartoon that's like the second most video watch video on youtube it's called blip who we heard of blip it's like baby shark but like blip is this guy the what he does is he goes into like toy stores after they're closed and he films a video of himself playing with all the toys and it's like mesmerizing for like my daughter you can't look away when like blip can play for an hour and it's like you're playing with the toys you're just watching him and then like halfway through like the youtube channel they just switch the guy and all the parents are like who the hell is this guy like i've this guy's you can just switch blip and like i could see the kids case now it's not like there's a new barney under the hood it's like so kids can't tell or at least like at at the age my daughter she's too like she you she can't tell maybe like a four year old can tell or something like that but but the parents always have to sit there with with it and so like there's tons of online forums or people are like did you see that they tried to just switch blip on us like that like whatever so basically i yeah don't know if they can switch flow at this point maybe they can maybe they can't like the old spice guy the does guy these become like part of the actual like to become like non fungi you know parts of the of the of ad i think this is great for this woman how much money thinks she should be making in this this what's her name social savannah i have no idea i mean if you told me she's making fifty to a hundred thousand dollars a month i would tell you that sounds about right got if you told me make a little bit less i'd say she's probably gonna be at fifty thousand to a hundred thousand a month soon that's why because brands need this content i don't wanna have to arrange photos shoots or put myself in front of the camera i just wanna send you know product to this person once a month and they sit there in their bedroom and they record a new ad every day and then i have thirty pieces of creative at the end of the month by the end of the month that i'm testing on facebook and i'm saying this one works this one doesn't do more like this and and that's what i work it this woman is perfect she is perfect this is so here's why whole quote here's why she's perfect she's perfect because so i've run my team had we run eight figures and ads a lot of ads i personally had probably ran five million maybe eight million so like a fair amount of when we first started i i ran a lot of them and my our podcast we've gotten an accused of being bros i'm just gonna say what i'm gonna say but don't like hey be on there for second here this is just the truth okay this is just the truth okay so we would have three different types of ads well actually four a hot guy like a good looking but not like hot like a everyday decor store type of guy right these beautiful in the office yeah the the equivalent for a woman so like a a pretty girl next door woman and then like a smoking hot like traditional yeah yeah or at least like the stereotype of like this like you know whatever you like what goal what you think a model looks like if you're gonna make a have a model for your brand yes for both men and women the pretty next door girl worked significantly better significantly it always works and so that shocked me it worked amongst both men and women and when i look at this woman i'm thinking to my head this is a she's like kind of exactly the the the ads that that we run they look like at this woman the the ones at won at least exactly alright that's exactly it so even though i called it my hot girl side hustle it's really not a hot girl side it's actually should be called more like the actually the way i thinking about this was pretty yeah girl next door side hustle basically and if you if you are like cute basically that's the bar because you have to get somebody's attention when they're scrolling and the way the social media works whether people like this or not if this accounts statement like get over yourself the way social media works is people react to or they stop or they pause when they see somebody attractive in their feed right like monkeys just scrolling through our feed and so so so that's why i think you have to be certain level attract but really the most important part is the thing has to look like somebody just like posting something from their their account not a branded thing and that works about so anyways i think this is a easy way to get to five to ten thousand dollars a month easily and i think the upside can be a hundred thousand dollars you're gonna manage a group of people like there's some people who are on college campuses that are smart they know how to put other people on campus to work for them you could easily get this to six figures a month of of income and it's almost all profit i i don't know this woman but we run the same circle so this woman i'm looking it up now so there's a guy named taylor holiday and i forget the other person's name but they're listeners of the podcast they file both of us on twitter and they used to run this company called common thread collective and i think it's just an agency right it's just an agency yeah they seem like great guys and i looked up at social savannah on linkedin so her name is savannah sanchez this woman and she used to work at that company as a paid manager and yep and i imagine what happened when she was there was they were like hey we gotta create these ads and then somehow it came to be like oh savannah you're like you're you're like good looking and your charismatic and you're creative like let's just use you and she was like okay fine and then she actually kinda learned how the business worked a little bit while she was there and this is how she started this agency this is amazing i'm totally on board with this yeah it basically un bundles the ad agency so the ad agency does they do creative but they when they use when they do creative they usually farm it out to a photographer videographer another another creative ad agency whatever they'll do media like strategy like what's your buying strategy how much you're gonna how you gonna structure your campaigns what's your budgets etcetera they do like reporting client reports all that bullshit then they're like oh you need to be on google facebook snapchat we'll we'll manage all those we'll put it all in one place for you we'll keep it all organized and the smart thing is that somebody that is un bundled and said man the most important part of this whole thing is the ad creative that's also the part where you don't have to do almost any of the like client services and the un stuff and and the good part about this is that if you are good at it it's like sandwich video where basically you get known as the the group to go to that's who the d companies go to so i think there's like an opportunity in in that to become like sandwich video for for d and look at the link i just sent to you in in zen cast of the people who work there alright let's take a look employees between please yeah okay yeah they all look they all fit the profile yes yeah i love this company yeah exactly like if i convince this company i'd be like hey great just i don't wanna not long term like give me a monthly dividend out of this company and i'll be very very happy i think i'll make my money back in six months go ahead this is great alright you wanna do one more thing yeah let's do one more alright alright let's do i'll do have more high tech one okay so we did the bro bro science one i'll give you kind of like a a cool technology one so cool technology one is more blue collar actually there's a whole bunch of blue collar jobs around construction sites like forklift whatever the big i didn't even know what they're call like tractors like the things that dig up dirt cement trucks whatever did you say dolly part was did they when you and they like what the fuck your problem no they nobody emailed me because nobody else knows about belly part me either unless unless you come from a certain part of america i'm sure think a lot of people do know and they were just like rolling their eyes like how how does this guy not know this so the the thing i was gonna bring up is on construction sites you have a lot of these heavy machinery drivers basically so drivers of forklift drivers of cranes things like that and these are really expensive labor and it takes scale and it's also dangerous right and so i think what's gonna happen is if you just fast forward ten twenty years from now i think all of this gets replaced with this technology that's it's not self driving it's more like self operating which is basically like remote or or or what they call called tele operated so have you ever seen a tele operated thing have you ever seen a demo of this yeah so i forget what their called but basically i remember about in two thousand and fifteen i went to my friend's office a aj and it was called i cracked and he had an office in new york and in an office in san luis biz or sorry san francisco and in new york or something like that and he had this like thing you know remember like a hover board like the two wheels yeah and he had like a stick coming up from it and then an ipad and basically what you could do is you could use your iphone and you could be remote and you could have this like screen hover around the office and you could be looking at it from your phone and talk to people so you can go into like different rooms things like that and they also have them at stores now so some stores are fully operated by those things yeah there's a there's a i used to have it at our office it was kinda like i nobody really used it but you yeah it was it was like it was like a segue but it's like an ipad on top of it and anybody who's not there could dick roll around the office and theory so it's a similar sort of idea but basically there's a set of technology to say hey look self driving like full ai that's hard and far away but what we can do is we can basically have a we can do kinda like a labor arbitrage so you can have like a driver sit you know instead of being in los angeles where labor might be expensive you have a driver in santa fe or a driver in the philippines doesn't and basically the driver can basically drive and you could drive a full car so they're just like eight cameras the driver is basically looking at it like it's a video game like they have three monitors the front monitor is the front windshield the left monitors if you looked at the left window and looked at your rear rearview mirror and the right one is the right one and basically they just drive and like the they've gotten this down low latency where you can have a i can go sit in a car i've done this i sat in a car that was being driven by somebody at a computer somewhere else that i had never met that i never knew and he drove me around the parking lot no problem parked the car and i got out i was oh that's cool that's uber but the driver not here the driver is of video game player somewhere else and and then that gets even better because okay that's that takes advantage of geography right maybe i make twenty five dollars an hour here and i can pay twelve dollars an hour in another city but still that's like kind of a lot of technology and risk for just saving you know twelve dollars an hour so then they go next level they say well you know we really only need the driver when they're at a an intersection trying to make a left turn or trying to park so but like on highway or you know on a straight road very simple stuff the computer just do super accurately so what they do is it's like the deep descent it's like the security company that that you invest in where one security guard monitors a hundred different doors because for security guard they only need to look when there's a when there's a in person at the door if there's no person at the door that screens off and so what deep sentinel did with smart was they made it where like you have like a super a super agent who instead of just a bodyguard monitoring our security officer monitoring one location they can monitor a hundred at a time similarly with this technology you have things driving and then only when the computer is confused or gets into a defined situation that's like hey this is a left turn we we only trust humans to do the left turns right now then it pops up on the driver screen the driver says great i will take over from here they do the left turn and then they say back to autopilot and then thing drives off again and so that's called human in the loop technology where there's it's mostly ai but then there's a human in the loop of doing the process so human in the loop is super interesting most people view it as like a just a band aid like a bridge until we get to full ai but i think there's gonna be big companies that just do human and the loop stuff and one of the human the loop things that i think gonna happen is remote operated heavy machinery on construction sites because if you take the people away you reduce a lot of the danger you reduce the skill requirement and then maybe you you only need an operator to do certain high skill tasks and they just like basically load in like a video game they do the task and then they leave and then they go do it again so one driver can be like working on ten construction sites every day i think that's gonna be pretty cool because that person will make they'll make three times more somebody doing this yes so there's a couple different companies that are doing this there's some that are doing this with construction i don't know their names then there's a company that's just doing tele tele operation as a service so basically it says hey you wanna you wanna we create a company doing tele operated forklift cool or cranes great put our kit on your on your crane and it'll work put our software kit wow this is this is what your driver sitting somewhere else is gonna use is our our camera kit basically and that's a company called almost says like shadow or something let me see that's pretty great and as a service phantom phantom dot auto is a is one of the companies now i don't i've heard some you know mixed things so i don't know if it's a great company this is a former yc partner left to go start this they raised a bunch of money who they're trying to do it for self driving cars what'd do you say who who i gotta look them phantom model founder and what were the mixed things well some people are just like you know anybody who's gonna do this they end up building this in house they don't actually like self driving is you have so many engineers you're working on this so hard and your your your use case might be different and so they're skeptical that a third party can provide the software that every one of these companies is gonna use because it's not like there's gonna be millions of companies that need this it's more like dozens of companies today that need this and all dozens of those companies are probably gonna do this in house i wanna say phantom was done by the yc maybe it's something else but maybe i'm thinking maybe i'm mixing up two of these no yeah i think i'm looking i'm mixing up two these there there was a different yc founder doing this so really quick there's this company called winner winner so winner winner dot com have you ever been there yep you know i've i've i checked it out but explain is pretty cool it's pretty cool so joe spies you know our friend he's maybe a cofounder founder or help get it going but basically what they do is they have a warehouse in las vegas well so how cheap is a las vegas warehouse so you would know more than i do you know it's dirt cheap so like you could have like i i think ramon had a massive like many tens of thousands of square feet for like twenty grand a month and then these guys so these guys rented this massive warehouse and then they filled it with claw machines and you could play a claw machine like you see the camera there's a camera on it and you could play this claw machine virtually from your phone and then when you pull a gift i actually you've done it what happened that you got a gift they'll mail they'll mail it to you so like you basically you buy credits and then you like play the thing and then if you win the toy you can you can basically like pay i think you i think you have to be at a certain level to get the free shipping but otherwise you like pay to have the the toy ship to you and so it's okay it's a it's a it's a arcade you can play from far away and it's a tele operated little claw that goes down and picks up the items it sounds silly but these are actually really popular games both in the us but in it also in japan i think there's like a pretty big market for this either in korea or japan and then when winner their numbers are pretty like decent as well like they're doing they're doing very well i think you guys invested right no we haven't but they're thinking about we don't know if there's gonna be a a conflict of interest we're trying to figure it out but they're noticeable adjustable you know like it's getting into that size yeah it's a it's a really cool concept it's definitely worth like playing with once to see it kind of like makes you think more is possible than you thought up right like it's kind of a crazy idea to be like hey you know that little like two dollar thing where you can like maybe win an iphone or like a stuffed animal like yeah what if you could just play that from your phone i don't think to her that hard to set up either like i don't don't think you either crazy they say like the book because little things do matter like latency or like if i push right and it doesn't go right until like it lags but by then i push right three more time now it goes right three times and i'm like you can easily just you know get frustrated to throw your phone and be like this stupid so there's definitely some tech you have to do to smooth in that out but that's getting better and better every day and you know any any group of smart people can solve that that's a lot easier than you know self driving cars or whatever but i think this whole space to watch is tele operation remote operation remote drivers remote arcade games remote you know construction remote cleaning there's there's a whole bunch of things where the machine can do eighty percent of the stuff the machine can't do the last twenty percent so instead of just waiting until the machine is perfect you say cool we're gonna put a human in the loop the human will take over when that twenty percent needs to be done when a decision needs to be made when a adjustment needs to be done or whatever and then the machine goes back to doing it and now you have humans that are working remotely they make more money than they would if they were just working on one site and the cost of the thing goes down too because you don't need so many humans working on stuff to make it so i think it's like a win win win that's gonna be more popular what people don't really talk about that today do you follow do you know how much on it sold for it you know on it yeah joe like thing you had told me something they sold for couple hundred million right dude someone told me like two hundred million dollars right is that crazy so on its own by this guy named aubrey marcus do follow him on instagram no should i this guy is nuts i've heard some crazy stories about those this guy i like i don't met i'm when i say nuts i don't i think he's a a a fine guy but he's just like an odd ball i've heard some stories about him that basically one time he went to this rural area and went into an isolation area but it wasn't like an isolation tank it was like a a room with with no sound or no light and he stayed there for like four or five days i've heard other stories about ohio he goes to this area it does massive amounts of lsd i've heard stories about how he had an open relationship with his wife and it didn't work out and she was like i i believe her name is whitney i think like a a former miss america or something like that and they had an open relationship this guy is wild if you follow him on on instagram and he's like he's like a hon like he's like looks really good looking like he's good looking and he like the word honking in a long time dude he's like a hon he's like ripped he's huge he's good looking he's got like cool tattoos this guy you gotta follow this guy at his script it's wild this is like some weird shit watching him i'm watching him workout with a steel mace yeah that's the warriors and there's like a video up him with like more paint on and then this guy he this is the most this guy is so fascinating to me i love the founders of all these companies so like if you wanna see interesting founders look at the founders of supplement companies you know like energy drink companies like go look at the guy from bang energy do tell me that's not a good time me that's not a good time on instagram go look at the guys who do supplements the man energy guy is like legit weird yeah all these guys were legit we are dude and that doesn't mean like it's not a bad thing but they're not you know not like you know some corporate they run big corporations but they're not corporate they are not buttoned up they are they're a little while yeah man this is a good follow you gotta file aubrey marcus he like he does all the spiritual stuff like there's here's a video of him he's getting like blessed by a spiritual shaman or something not even understand like some of this terminology and alright i have a good follow for you too on the instagram of a of a tech founder do you follow the founder of telegram powell no is he a is he a nutty okay so we just typing in p a v e l is the ceo telegram l telegram if you don't know if telegram is basically whatsapp but it's made by this kind of like guy who's he he he won't sell the company so he's like you know the this guy is actually kind of like a genius i think he started v k which is the the russian facebook it's the only country du do d u r o v and his handle is just du d d u r o v yeah i got him so so this guy story is pretty nuts so he starts v k name he's v k v k is the the russian facebook facebook the the facebook basically is taken over every other like oh i'm facebook for brazil it was like or no facebook comes wins it's like oh facebook for like be bi was facebook and ireland in the uk and then australia boom facebook one and then in russia they just could never beat v for like the combination of like slightly political reasons but also i've seen interviews zuckerberg where he's like dude their engineers these are like the most brilliant mathematicians ever and they've just made it their mission in life as soon as we release anything they have it copied in twenty four hours like it's and it's like pixel for pixel copy so v k is facebook but instead of blue it's red it's like a pixel for pixel copy of facebook but but it's red and it it has facebook facebook has not been able to win in russia even after like all this time but then you know putin or whoever the government there they basically took over v k they just like took over the company and like demanded certain things he refused and so this guy had to flee the country so this guy flee he creates telegram which is this like ideally this is like encrypted messaging app and it's like whatsapp but it's not owned by facebook a lot of people like it i love it it's great product and he basically self funded it for a long time like she's just put like fifty million of his own money into like doing he's no ads there's no whatever and then he made a bunch of money when they did a ico a token sale but they never actually went through with it and but they got free money for a while from that but this dude's instagram following his hilarious look for now you'll never see anyone else in his instagram feed no friend no girlfriend boyfriend wife kid nothing it's only him it's usually him with no shirt on and he's pointing ripped and he's he's very ripped i mean he looks like first he is always doing like model es photo shifts and he's like f he's like sitting on a sand dune there's like riding a horse into the sunset like he's at his feet in a under a waterfall and this guy is just hilarious to follow i just thought this guy be like an actual character so he's thirty thirty six years old worth of twenty billion dollars and he's got like pictures of him like with this make yet this guy's fascinating i'm gonna i'm gonna schedule over this the billy of the week pavel pavel you are the billy of the week so where's he lives for just for he floats around he doesn't tell anyone where he lives he's in dubai a lot but he travels around and he doesn't he can't go back to russia and he can't go he he can't go back to the say or he can't come to the states doesn't wanna come to the states and so he just goes to like you know beautiful places that are you know he i don't know if he lives in one place he's just like always traveling it seems sometimes in the us sometimes in dubai finland brazil wherever for paris and then he runs the company sort of like remotely so what wikipedia says i don't know this word aesthetic right what's that mean as aesthetic i guess that means you don't know own much and he he give up your sessions he promotes freedom of property so i guess he doesn't own that much stuff yeah wow he ran some nice shit i i'll tell you that but he made like he's renting like a like a a mega probably a hundred million dollar yacht it's that's fascinating and his kind of like mission in life is just sort sort of to be like the anti facebook anti v and so i i find him to be cool because he's like an ideal list like if you use telegram he writes the update and he'll be like we have you know ten million more members telegram remains one hundred percent free one hundred percent encrypted one hundred percent you know like what what's it called like you know independent and he's like you know we release these new features and he's just like he definitely has like an idealistic streak around privacy around freedom at least that's what he promotes and this company is like a twenty billion dollar company right or like a multi billion dollar startup telegram would be a multi billion dollar startup up but again there's no there's no outside investors and there's no he'll never sell so you know it's nobody knows the real value this might be one of the most valuable companies per employee i'm looking at their jobs page they only have like five jobs up a content moderator a trans a translator a junior accountant and assistant to the ceo did that's a sick job if you can be become isn't if if follows was a ceo that's a sick job that's crazy right yeah it's interesting company does it make money no it doesn't make any money he doesn't care about it making money he doesn't want to make money they did the the the they were like pretty pure until they did this ico thing they basically yeah yeah they were like we're gonna beat ethereum we're gonna like build a better version of ethereum with all this crazy shit they released this white paper that was like work we are solving all these impossible computer science things and people who were smart technically they were like alright well like if anyone's gonna it it's gonna be these guys but i don't think i don't think anybody can do this and definitely nobody could do this in this timeline that they're talking about like the crazy shard schemes or whatever and basically they so so so they did this ico i think they raised like four billion dollars or three billion dollars i have some of the details wrong i haven't really didn't prepare for this one but they raised a few billion dollars and then the us basically said you yeah you can't that's a security offering you can't do that unless you follow these regulations and so they just pulled the plug on the ico but for a year they held everyone's money saying it's gonna get listed at the end of the year or two years maybe even they held everyone's money so they had like a free float of multi billion dollar float for multiple years and then they gave back the money but for the deal was so hard to get into that all these middle man who had allocation i think you had to buy twenty million dollar slots that was like a minimum purchase at the time i think people would buy the twenty million and then they would sell chunks of it to individual retail investors like me for thirty million a forty million total and so people got back the twenty million but if they sold it for more than that initial strike price you were screwed so a lot of people put in you know a hundred thousand dollars into this thing and got back seventy two years later you know but that's the real you take i'm gonna be day yeah great that's the episode i gotta run cool alright see you later yeah i feel like i could rule word i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on a road travel never looking back