#192 - Making Billions with Greeting Cards, How the FBI Took Down Thousands of Criminals, & Rich People (not) Paying Taxes

i think that you've said a lot of amazing stuff for the past two years i think what you just said right there actually might be one of the most valuable rants in terms of just money that you've ever said yeah i feel like i could rude out know i could be what i want to from at all in and like a days off on a goal travel never looking back what's up it's me sean and sam the vanilla gorilla alright we have a good episode today sean just said he thought this was an amazing episode we talked about a lot of different stuff you have a list what do we talk about we talked about the surprisingly big business of greeting cards and ec cards we talked about the crazy chick f a tech stack and some ideas around that and creating a consulting company around that we talked about this crazy fbi take down where the fbi basically tricked thousands and thousands of criminals with a a pretty genius app what else you you did a good bump boxes breakdown and a bump box of a guy who's built a business that sells subscription boxes to pregnant women and and they're they're they're babies and it's like forty million dollars a year the babies don't buy it they they might but it's meant for the babies right that just forty million dollars year in sales and we talked about how this article that came out about bridge people not to paying taxes well we talked about how they actually get money to live which was kinda of mind blowing to me and we talked about one of my favorite childhood actors and childhood movies how that act young child actors has become a crypto billionaire and then i got excited saying he's the billy of the week but that's all to come in this episode and do me a favor go to your spotify go to your itunes there's a button that says subscribe or follow follow if here on spotify subscribe itunes click that button because when you click that we go open the charts we go up in charts we get more listeners and we get more listeners we could record more stuff please do that thank you and have a good episode well first happy birthday you are you're one thirty one thirty two thirty two now okay great good i was feeling i'm thirty three and your old was like we're basically at the same age about thirty thirty one i do it to slight you i do as a joke because you're only you're older than me but i don't wanna make it clear that you're all of the be still yeah yeah yeah and in my head i i immediately stop listening to everything else you say and i just start thinking of my head fuck i'm older than sam and then i have to be like what does that matter who cares and i get back and i don't even know what's going on thirty five okay great i do it that feel even worse now my my trainer by the way he's at a forty forty one something like that and looks great it looks like he's twenty five and anytime time i like oh wow i didn't know that you know it wouldn't they find out his age or whatever he he's just like he he's like i'm living at a hundred and five and he's constantly watching videos of people who are like a hundred and five but healthy or like a hundred and they have like you know they're still like madly in love with their husband and wife and he's just constantly watching these videos these outlier examples to be like that's me i'm gonna have that life do you care about living till you're like really old yeah well i tell everyone one thirty i say okay great i say i'm gonna be one thirty but i'm gonna i'm gonna act like a current seventy year old it's like my like there's seventy year olds now that's what i'm gonna be when i'm one thirty okay and why one thirty where is that number from i sent nice ambitious but realistic number i think that so i went out with this guy the other day and he is a a no i'll i'll name drop you out kinda named drop i went out with lance armstrong they got dinner with lance farms armstrong dude do you weren't gonna say that you were just gonna say i went out with this guy the other day yeah well yeah i i it i had the reason i'm saying that is like it come from a reputable source and he had this guy who worked at adidas in nike with him this like huge rip guy who was like he's probably fifty five or so and he was telling me that there's a direct correlation between lean muscle mass and age so like longevity so the people who have more muscle at an older age are more likely to live longer and so that was like a realization to me so anyway that was so two for one you get to be jacked now and live forever yeah but wait what were we talking about oh yeah live old but i well but i so we just did this little thing let's get back into it i got a card an email from my aunt my aunt debbie who's inner fifties called i figured forget what it was called but it was american greetings was the name of the company or the main whenever i get like of these things i scroll straight to the bottom and it says like the name of the brand but then it says like copyright right american green right the the like terms and conditions part yeah i'm like alright that's the good stuff so i always like wikipedia and it was this company it's a greeting card company that does cause turn pause you one second that thing you just said that this podcast has like rewire my brain where that's all i do now i'm like oh cool this thing is in my life who's behind this how much do they make what's the company what's the backstory is there a like epic founder behind this i was at the dentist and he's showing me an x ray of my teeth yesterday and instead of looking at he's like pointing out something in my he's like like that's good who makes i'm looking at the name of the software in the top left corner like vm you know vm imaging and i'm like i'm like hey can you hear me my phone real quick i need introduce sorry i did to write this down i'm gonna go look up this company i bet it makes like billions of dollars doing this x rays software for dentist office or like he was ex scraping my tooth with some tool and i was just thinking why isn't there like better divide this is the same scraper they've been using since like i was ten who if every dentist is buying these things these things can't cost they have to cost a lot of money who's what's the company that makes these little devices and are they innovating why not you know blah a lot so my brain has been like i have like this chip in my brain now that that has to get to the root source of every product i feel which is what you i see your sent you at birthday card well when i see a building like a huge warehouse if that where like if it's a massive warehouse and there's a sign on it i always look up what's the story of that right i always do it so yeah but i was thinking to like you know what people are excited about ar or like when google glass came out and they're like oh it's great you'll be able to read your email or you'll be able to like see directions you know like the map will be in front of your eyes and i was like the killer app of this is i just look at somebody and it tells me who they are like i can just like know like when you you stalk someone you you see someone interesting you like try to look them up you find their instagram you see what their life's all about i think it's gonna be amazing when we just have contacts or glasses and i could just look at you it'll be like sam park ceo of the hustle blah blah your last two tweets next to your face floating above you you have no idea that i just have like you know there's also targeted you there's also practical stuff me and sarah we're walking on the street theater today and sara saw a guy with college shirt and she's like i think we know that person but i can't tell because all white guys with colored shirts look look the same to me so let's there's some practical there's some practical implications jared when i was a kid and i wanna use my fake id i had a fake id and the guy was a white dude but he had like a shaved head and it was like he had clearly had black hair but if you go to the indian or the black stores with like a black cl like a different a clerk of a different race they all thought that like all weeks yeah looks just like you and so the the joke was you have to go to a like a person who's not white because they think we look exactly the same did you ever do that with your kid like you go to like you gotta go to the white card i didn't realize that hack but that makes perfect sense to me do you think all white people look alike no not all white people look alike but definitely like you know john jeff and jacob you know i might mix them up from time to time yeah i the same way that you know i look like you know a season sorry to everybody you know what mean like but yeah but we were talking about american greetings american greetings and the reason bring this up huge company and it's just crazy that this should still exist but i guess it's not that crazy just explain in simple terms they do ec cards so you can send a twenty dollars to somebody twenty dollars a year yeah twenty dollar year membership and they do above a billion dollars in revenue they own multiple smaller brands so they own like jackie lawson i know if you ever heard of jackie lawson by the way no you should google this name said jackie lawson go look at her website and like welcome to nineteen eighty two so just i i mean whoever's is doing the video on this you gotta pull up the jackie lost that lost literally okay so the the profile photo looks like you know some boot like carmen san diego and then it says jackie lawson and then like there's like the there's like a mouse like a computer mouse is like like part of the n because probably like when she invented it was like new to be like on the computer sending cards to people and this thing is incredibly popular people love jackie lawson cards she's like really well known sold company i think to american greetings and i ran a company for a period of time maybe a year or two it's called birthday alarm dot com and i didn't up by the way i didn't start this company but the company is kind of remarkable i'll break it down so michael and z birch were the investors of my previous company this was their first win so michael is a programmer at an insurance company he's like this is boring wants to go do a startup he comes up with this big idea to do a self up jab address book meaning like what if you had a contact list that was like dynamically so i'm in your address book if i ever move i can just change my address or my my email address or whatever and it'll automatically update everyone's contact list you know dynamically so you have this idea of this you build this this product it's really complicated it's not really going anywhere but he adds one feature to the address book which is birthday what's your birthday and which is ironically the thing that doesn't change it's you don't need a dynamic address book to do that but he started sending a reminder so like a little reminder would come out like i should have got a reminder yesterday that said hey it's sam worth birthday today wish him happy birthday and and this was before facebook so this is actually an incredible incredible useful thing so people used to email him being like hey thanks so much for that birthday reminder i would have totally forgot my aunt's birthday you know you saved me on that one or you know i looked like husband of the year because of that birthday reminder and so he's like shit nobody likes my think but they just like this one feature so he makes that the product so he goes he makes it birthday alarm dot com and all it does is it reminds you of your friends and family's birthday and immediately the the site starts to like do a little bit better but not like not gang buster shit so he says okay well how does this product work i should be able to email all my friends and family and say hey add your birthday to my my birthday alarm calendar and and then he he does he at the time there's no term for viral marketing but he's like i don't have a budget to do you know i quit my job to go try to make it big in the startup world so i don't have a marketing budget so i need one user to recruit another so here's what i'll do when i email all my friends and families to add their birthday to mind and they go type in june fifteenth then it'll say do you wanna save sean's birthday in your calendar and they're like yeah why not you know tit for tat he just asked for mine i'll take kids and then it says cool your your calendar has one birthday in it who else is birthday did you wanna know send this to your friends and family so that became the viral loop and all of a sudden he started getting tens of thousands of members still a free product but tens of thousands of users at the time to him felt like a million dollars i was like oh my god i've actually made something that's growing and then he's like alright how do i make this even better so he's just he went all in on this viral vitality piece he didn't try to figure out the business model or i things he's like how i make this even more viral and so he's like well today there's still all these steps involved i gotta type in each person's email address i have to figure out what to write so he starts one by one changing these pieces he's like oh instead of you having to think what to write i'll write it for you just copy paste this right here's a copy button to copy this into your email client and then he's like could i just send this to their whole email address book and at the time nobody was really doing this and so he wrote one of the first scraper for hotmail where he where you could just log in to your hotmail he's like great i imported to all your contacts just hit send and it'll send to all of them and he's like dude this is kinda crazy like he's like for sure hot is gonna shut this down in ten days but whatever ten days of growth let's do it and so immediately he makes up next morning and there's like a hundred thousand members and it just keeps growing exponentially after that and you know here we are and he started that website like two thousand one so twenty years later you could still do that thing in hot at gmail where you import your address book they never were able to like fully shut it down and so he's like that hack that i thought would last ten days lasted twenty years and the sites started growing exponentially so now it has you know it's tad over i don't know maybe a hundred million members at this point put ad their book making like five million dollars year every single year so at that point it's free now what happens is his buddy morgan he who's like a a a a friend of his sends him a link to i don't know what it was it was either jackie lawson in american greetings blue mountain and one of these websites he goes dude you should do ec cards i made i made an ec card website you should add ec cards this that could be the business model sell birthday cards right don't just remind them of the they let them wish them a happy birthday turns that on immediately starts to making ten thousand dollars day or whatever i numbers are not exact in fact we re released his episode can go listen to the exact but basically starts making money that business with just like pretty bare bone so it was him working on his wife working on it you know his sister law did the books and there was like you know a cousin did customer support it ran like that for a number of years and just had like an outsource people making ec cards and it was making at its peak four or five million dollars a year of revenue with most of that being profit like maybe eighty percent profit at that time and it ran like that for a number of years he used that to self fund his next startup a social network called be and then because he self funded it with birthday alarm when he sold be for like eight hundred fifty million dollars the the husband and wife duo they owned like seventy percent plus of the company because he had self funded it using it this using this ec card website and so when i went to go run his ideal lab that was still the cash cow that was paying for that fancy office you saw all those silicon valley engineers most of it was because birthday alarm was still cranking two million dollars a year of of profit even though nobody was working on it and there had been no updates for like multiple years at that point and so then i took it and we tried to like turned around and make it grow again and so it started to grow again you know after we worked on it but because of that i looked into jackie lawson in american greetings and ji jab and all these different companies and this space is actually pretty big yeah well that's why i brought this up as i knew i would get a story out of you like that there's also one other company that somebody who listens to the podcast had told us i'll give them a shout have you seen this app called giving lee no so it's a it's a new age version of of the same idea so giving what they do what they make easy is that they're like not just good looking cards but a gift card to like any service so like it was my trainer birthday i wanted to get him something i'd had forgotten to give him a a gift and so i sent him a giving which was like a beautiful little ec card i made on my phone in like you know five minutes and then i was able to attach like a hundred dollar door dash passed to it so it's like oh dinner tonight on me is what i sent him and and so it was like so easy to send a gift and a gift card and i was oh this is actually kinda interesting and so i talked to the founders and their stats are honestly pretty impressive people send a ton of these and the way that they grew is a little unconventional they grew as a snapchat mini app which like you kinda don't hear anyone talking about like do you ever hear about snapchat minis no i don't even know what that is they they released this like app platform called minis and like you never really hear anybody talking about it and then when they showed me their numbers i'm dude where are you getting like hundreds of thousands of users are they're like oh snapchat like people in snapchat just send little cards back and forth to each other all the we're the number one mini and like what and so i went and looked in the little mini store and the sure enough they were like one or two at the time so i thought that was kind of interesting and it made me think oh i should do a deep dive into minis and see what else is actually working here that's that's fascinating and that's we've talked about this like idea of like you need distribution first and if you have that you have everything and like that's why like chrome plugins ins that's why i like wordpress plugins ins i didn't even know about minis yeah and you know i don't know if you need it first there is definitely like a case for that other people will say no you need a product people love and other people will say no you need a great team and like the way i think about it is is this guy aya who i think also this is podcast he wrote this book called hooked and he's a listener that's cool i've i i read that book yeah and so he as awesome book and so he he had told me this once in my office he goes every business is like a three legged stool you have growth you have engagement and you have monetization ge and he's like you know when you start your startup up you have none you just have like you know a stool with no legs and then you need to get your first leg on there it can be growth or or it can be engagement like a sticky product that people love he's like a good startup we'll have two and if you have two you have a pretty good shot of figuring out the third the problem is there's a whole bunch of people here with one legged stool trying to go raise money and i thought that was so spot on and so then when i looked at the company i just thought to myself oh do they have all three legs figured out two of the three i'm okay with one of the three i'm gonna wait dude i dig it i and i completely agree with that we have like a ton of ideas here i'm i'm really excited can i tell you something really quick though that i learned yeah so do you remember is it called pro republic what what was that article that got released with rich people i think pro republic was the name is like the billionaire taxes i didn't read it by the way so and i'm much school you don't have to have read it but there okay so there's something going i didn't read it either but it's not important because it's this the general topic of of this of like how rich people pay little taxes and they do that by basically and like i don't know how to bring this up that something like a total douche but when you make little money like you get access to loans that are like one point five percent or one point two or whatever it is it's it's based off of like a lot of times they'll reach people get the most free shit whether it's payments or cheap capital or cheap anything yeah basically like when you sign up for like a big bank you get a line of credit like i think it's seventy five percent of your of the amount of money you have in there at like a one percent rate or it's like based off the london bond exchange and i was curious about this but basically a lot of folks like elon and just most people who are wealthy or a lot of people who are wealthy they take loans and that's what they loot use to live on but in my head i'm like but you still gonna pay that back so how are they doing that and i went and talk to some bankers and do you know how this like do you know what the expectation is here the expectation is that you actually live on those loans forever yeah and you're a state pays it when you die is that crazy is that a crazy thing to think about i kinda thinking it like but how does the bank get their money back and it's like no like we expect that it's gonna be an outstanding loan for like fifty years and we're just gonna keep loan and loan and loan and then when they die cut they're not trying to make their money off you the wealthy person they're trying to take all of your millions and millions of dollars and lend it out to other people who are gonna pay higher rates so they're like okay we need to lend money where do we get the money let's get the money from rich people how do we get the money from rich people we offer them amazing terms okay then how do we make money well we're gonna take that money and we're gonna lend it to people who don't have as much and we're gonna charge them more right kinda sounds screwed up what you say it but that's the business model here i believe yeah it's just like something that i didn't understand barely just dumb idiot if i'm wrong i might be wrong because i'm not a banker nor my bank nor if i thought about this stuff it's just weird i just said that was weird and that was totally like that was one of those things where it's like well funny this is how the world works i was like i i didn't know that i'm just because like you're like oh you're the ceo how much she make oh wow this ceo came out and so he's taking a one dollar salary for the year what a great guy i was like no obviously that that just means he doesn't make his money off a salary he makes it off something else it's okay he's getting stock okay great wow he's getting all the stock stocks going up must pay a ton of taxes no no he he doesn't why is that well he doesn't sell the stock so he doesn't realize any gain okay then how does he pay for like that jet oh because he just like lend he gets a big loan or line of credit off of his stock as collateral and so wait so he lives for free off that loan yeah yeah he does he just has to pay you know one percent or two percent or three percent interest oh wow that seems pretty good okay even better let's say he takes that money and uses it to invest now that interest payment is also tax deductible so it's like just gets like kinda crazy how the advantages is sort of stack up against each other it was he bought real estate great now he's gonna take this huge depreciation you know on on the real estate bot and then if he sells it for a gain he's gonna ten thirty one exchange it into another real estate property in pay no gains it's it's pretty amazing i felt like when i learned this i felt like i was sitting like i went to a fancy dinner table for the first time they finally showed me like that small fork is meant for like digging crab me out of the wall i was like oh that's that's for oh well god like i thought how the kids for yeah i was like i that was a little people but i don't know what that is anyway i that was like a it's just like hit me in the head i'm like duh so that was so i had a call with a tax guy tax strategist i'm paying for this like tax strategist because i'm like okay where do did you figure this stuff out is it my brother my brother all had found somebody through a thing he and he saved him and much money and he he's was telling me it i was i gotta i talk to this guy so i talked to him get jeff and he's like okay you know so what are what are your goals here you know and i was like i wanna learn what the rich people do to pay less taxes and then you know decide or try to do some of those things if they applied to me and he's like okay and i was like so walk me through here like i if i make this much money in a year i'm just doing this i'm just writing this huge tax bill tax check you every every year what do they do where they don't have to do that and he was like just kind of like amused at my line of questioning but in the end he was like super helpful he really like kind of outlined all the things and then at the day i was like alright how does attorney client privilege work here i was like let's just say i tell you that you know this this part of my house that's my home office deduction sometimes i nap there and like also i store my dog stuff there right like this unrelated to my office so how honest can i be with you and he goes you can be totally honest i recommend you do but there's no attorney client privilege i could be subpoena he goes i'm not gonna do anything wrong because i don't have to you're looking great basically just need to ask for like red light green light yellow light like where now he'll be like he'll be like yeah so like are you active or passive on that i'm like suppose i was active what would the number be at the end and then suppose i was passive and then i will give you my answer by the end of this and he's like reading between the lines of like oh yeah i understand we haven't even actually gotten into any of my stuff but i wanted ask all the questions upfront to him about like like i i i'm more fascinated with how the texting works don't even have like a very complicated set setup isn't really anything i could do because i'm not like elon i don't have this like complicated structure and all these shares i could borrow against in that same structure but i'm more and paying this guy to tell me what other rich people do and i'm fine with that i think that's a great trade do you wanna talk about you wanna go i've got one idea so so i i well yours you wanna do my first i mean can give you the summary and then we can get into it later yeah two years okay do you know who pulsing is i never met him but i've heard about him and my buddy is his business partner great so paul baby bump bump boxes bump box so yeah sorry so you'll actually know more about this and i yeah so i reached out to paul because i don't even know how i contacted him but paul singh is a guy who started the thing called five hundred startups so not really around too much anymore well i didn't start it right did he start dave employer start i don't know yeah maybe he didn't start it but he was like there they're at the beginning and so yeah i i i i don't know if he helped start maybe it's the right word and he was just he was a guy there yep he helped make it popular and somehow he started traveling in an rv that was his shit was like i he actually left san francisco before it's cool he goes i i just wanna travel an rv and years and years and years ago he started a hosting company like a web hosting company and he went talk to me about it too much because it's kinda private but he's like basically i make millions of dollars a year from cash flow from that and i invest a large amount into privately held companies both brick and mortar and tech startups every single year and i would travel just to meet new potential investments and at one point i met these folks who had this thing called bump box it wasn't very popular and and so it sounds like you know the people from bump box right yeah i know it's super well oh well then you probably know a lot more than i do but let me tell you what i know so he met these folks and he bought into it he didn't start it and he didn't buy it outright but i think he bought into it so for like two or three hundred thousand dollars or something like that you bought a portion i don't know how much it was but basically the whole stick was we know statistically like where you should be in your pregnancy and like the the feelings that you're gonna have and the products that you're gonna need and so we sell you a monthly box for fifty dollars well me simplify that part i think it's more like when you get pregnant especially for the first time there's like all these new things happening inside your body outside your body you're trying to figure stuff out and there's like a million things that you're supposed to buy and get do but you don't know what they are and if you know what they are you don't know which product to buy because you wanna buy the one that's like safe but also effective but also whatever and into a lot of reading reviews trying products and so what bump box did which is pretty genius was they just said look we're gonna find the best products for every phase of your pregnancy first trimester or second trimester or third and then post and we're going to package up into a subscription box so you're just it's just gonna show up on your doorstep you don't even have to think and worry about this stuff anymore and so paul came in he's like yeah they're doing you guys are this is okay it's pretty good i think we could think of this is a tad bit bigger and we could turbo charge us and so now their vision is basically from conception to like eighteen nineteen twenty years old a mother is handling lots of different stuff and we wanna be the place that she turns to for a variety of different like needs to care for her kids right and the company is pretty interesting it's like forty million dollars in sales his goal to grow the company two x every single year and of that forty million in revenue sixty percent from subscription boxes and thirty percent is from this thirty to forty percent is this other stuff and paul came into this business and he goes these boxes are great but let's just make more and more and more stuff for this person so let's figure out everything the mom needs and let's just make it right and so now thirty or forty percent of their business come from medical equipment which i don't even know what that means whatever or i don't know what they sell so like i don't know if they're selling this yet might have to take this out i don't know if it's out yet but like for example a breast pump so when you when when you're breastfeeding you you're gonna pump in between feeds or whatever and insurance covers it and so you know these things are expensive devices that you need medical devices that the doctor sort of gives you that you'll use for the first year or so of your pregnancy of of the after birth and the other stuff they sell is they'll figure out what you want this and they're gonna call you and one of their insurance agents are gonna call you and say here's the fifty best types of insurance companies that you should check out if you wanna buy this breast pump or whatever they're it's all covered by insurance and then they make a cut off that lead so kind of an interesting company that i wanted to talk about and i wanted to talk about it because there's a few things going on here first this is a guy who has made a lot of money angel investing in tech companies and he told me i never wanna raise money i wanna own as much as as business as i can and we could either distribute profits to ourselves and our employees or we could sell for a fuck lot of money and b i just think that it's kind of interesting it's not like it's it's out of my world that know i don't have kids i'm not a woman it it's kind of interesting what do know about this so leland who's the the the founder and hit leland his wife i don't remember his by name top of my head but they started this thing they're amazing he's been so helpful to me in e commerce he really knows his shit and just awesome i think they're based in illinois or something like that and you know super super nice in the midwest built this company out it's kind of a great company and i i think subscription is really hard to do but when you do it it's fantastic and i think they've done a pretty good job of actually actually pulling it off and either the way he says that he's like we're not a box company we're a mom acquisition machine and that i'm like that's absolutely right and that's why they think bigger than just what what's one product we sell them okay box might be the first what's the second what's the third what's the fourth because we're just gonna acquire moms at an insane insanely good rate and be able to offer them products that they're gonna need for you know the period of their of of their child you know child care time and i said to paul i go you know like this is great but you are doing a lot of stuff that i think is a bad idea but it's a great idea i mean i clearly you're making it work which is you are not just stan you're not focusing exactly you're you're focusing on the mother category but you're launching loads of different stuff and he goes yeah that's actually our goal and the reason we're doing that is our our our whole unique strategies that we're gonna move quickly but he's like when you think about it a hundred years ago at some board meeting the guys at p and e or catalog or whatever whoever it is the big conglomerate nowadays they go you know like look we could start building you could start selling more soap or we could just buy all the soap and then buy all the razors and just buy everything that like you possibly use in your home and own the whole category as opposed to just focusing on this one thing and even though tech focuses on this one thing let's just do the opposite and say you know why can't we build a family of companies and i thought that was pretty cool it it broke my frame it's a little different than what i've heard or what i would have done and i think it's neat to see something that's the opposite of what i like or what i feel what i caveat would be i think they did focus on getting bump boxes core to work for a number of years right this is not new obviously yeah so so you you buy yourself the right to try a bunch of new things by getting your core to work really really well and get to scale i think they did that part they weren't doing i i don't think five different things before the other thing is like this idea is so simple and but when you talk to leland you're like oh you're like a badass ass operator like he's in the nitty gritty he's like oh yeah and facebook ads i can put i can copy this over here and if i do that it's like it's just a little bit better the platform doesn't even really support but i can do it manually this way or like you know they'll use a you know like they're when they're marketing the people they're like we actually call i don't know if ever heard of have you heard of like ring list voice mail you know this is like this marketing tactic he's like yeah we call our customers i was like don't people hate getting calls he's like oh it's not a call goes straight to voice mail i was like what is yeah there's a way to call somebody that goes straight to voice mail you leave a message so it's a great way to like that's really staying in them email inbox and you're buried under five thousand other their emails the person might get one or two voice mails a day and one of them can be from us and people like hearing from us so they hear a voice of a human being talking to them i'm like he's just doing a thousand of those small operational wins every year and i'm like oh that's why you win because this is a simple idea that i think nine out of ten entrepreneurs who tried the same exact idea would have failed same idea same portion of it if a if he's a powerhouse he just needs some help early on i think they needed some capital and i think they met paul pretty impressed by him and i think he's been a good kinda like partner for them but you know if you if you offered them a deal now i don't think they would take it right because he he's in a different position now then when it's just like i mean he started the company him his wife like i think they're were like at a conference or something like that and they were just like walk it was like you know like the parking lot or the like the water the hotdog dog stands like you know far away because everything's inconvenient at an event and while they were walking there they basically like had this idea they're like screw why don't we do this like let's start a business why don't we just go for it and they just like kinda of decided to do it and so you know at that point you're root really green you don't you don't know anything and then now he knows obviously a lot because he's been doing this for i don't know whatever seven years or something have you heard of i'm making a quick pivot have you ever heard of this thing called the anti gallo index i i don't know if it's a real thing i know that a lot of people basically make fun of scott gallo for being absolutely wrong about all his investment advice and predictions so there's this guy that someone turned it into an actual invest disgusting no no so there's a guy named scott gallo scott i've had lunch with them he's been nothing but nice to me but a lot of people dislike them because he makes some crazy statements he's they tease them for being real woke he makes these predictions where he puts like the my the winners and losers of each year and he makes these really bold predictions yeah and a lot of people attack a lot of people in general make fun of them because his predictions i mean i'm sure some of them are right but like a lot of them are wrong like really wrong massive yeah like one time he said that macy's is gonna crush amazon and that's just an example and some shit head who i love made a thing called the anti gallo index and if you so basically if you would have done the opposite of everything he said since two thousand and nineteen tech companies that professor gallo has predicted would fail have outperformed the s and p five hundred by a whopping sixty one percent no no they've outperformed that as you and have the return itself is sixty one percent sorry you know during the time and you know even if you it says even if you exclude tesla which is one of his big bets that he said was fail and it took off and said even without that one still twenty three percent return that's crazy isn't it this is hilarious who made this let's give them a shit i don't know we know okay that's hilarious this is cool yeah let's so okay here's an idea by the way which is is there i think there is there's some new products that are coming out that let anybody create a basket of stocks that's like like for example i think there's a company called doj that's doing this doj and what they do is you can go create i can go create the sean index and it's five stocks that i'm investing in and you can actually put your money into my index and by it buy those stocks and then it'll show over time how my index is performed and i can make the tech index and i can make my like high risk high reward index or whatever that's my understanding haven't used the product but my understanding is it's kinda like that which i think is an awesome idea by the way what are you of that idea yeah i mean what why can't you do that on i i've mentioned them in before i think it's called like bowl bowl something that there's that one there's a one israeli robinhood competitor and they've done this it's called copy trader and you we is that what of this wee and you could do this on that platform i think it's sick i think it's awesome yeah that's it seems really cool i don't know if i get some incentive by like sharing my basket but that would be like a really cool model where essentially i get a small cut of the assets that are invested into it if we perform or something like that and and then you could see like who's right who's wrong and not just people who cherry pick oh i invested in this one thing and it's done great but they don't tell you about the five losers they had here it's like all on the record what you what you picked and then you know you can see like the gallo index how is amazing so you wanna talk about some of your ideas yeah sure which one you wanna do so have you heard about this phantom secure thing i thought this is pretty sweet no so okay so there was a story the the today about the fbi had this huge crackdown on criminals and i was like okay that's interesting tell me about it and so i was reading it and in there they were talking about this the story okay so there was this app called phantom secure okay phantom secure was it was marketed basically as a as an app that you can use if you don't want you know anybody to to see what you're writing here right so obviously criminals are like hey that's interesting i'd i'd rather right there than on gmail right where where my stuff is stored on a server somewhere and i can get you know those those records can be get subpoena or whatever and so phantom secure at its peak had twenty thousand users it be eighty million dollars off those twenty thousand users so suggest how like math because you would pay to use it right because for you you're like this a business tool for me if i'm a criminal i need secure messaging i'll pay for this and so they were making four thousand dollars per user and just for like comparison whatsapp makes like two dollars per user so you know four thousand dollars per user was it's like an enterprise product for criminals so why were they paying for that versus like the other things like telegram or whatever it is because this was even more secure what you were you're getting here is you're not just getting an app you're getting a phone that has been wiped all the all the other apps are gone there's only a secure messaging app on the phone that secure messaging app will self des distract under certain conditions if you're like you know arrested or you trigger it or whatever somebody misses up mess up past with three times so it's a like it's a burner device design for criminal communications cto gets arrested the only way you could even get into the app was through referral right so so this thing existed they arrest the guy and criminals were like shit we don't have this app anymore so the fbi these i don't know the story is like these two detectives were out to lunch one day and they're like why don't we create another phantom secure but we own the thing we own the back channel so they created this app called non like anonymous and they put it on twelve thousand phones it took and they let it be out there for eighteen months for criminals to use and start to trust and refer other criminals onto it and the whole time every message is going to the fbi six secure servers but they just waited they just let the thing spread like a virus all throughout the criminal organizations and then they just took everybody down and i was like that is a badass story how you find that props i don't know i saw this story i just clicked it is it's amazing so do you think okay so i think that i actually think this amazing idea by the way it sucks that people were using it that way but i i think it's an amazing idea kinda like silk road is like an amazing idea where it's like yeah like it's cool to create like a marketplace where you can sell anything but it's kinda shitty like i don't wanna support anything where like know are the people that wanna a marketplace that'll sell them anything even different stuff than i can sell on ebay oh right you know drug dealers in it like you know sad like weapons do like i'm not like in favor of actually everything you know i'm not actually a true libertarian because i do think that like some stuff should be illegal right right but i am incredibly bullish on things like what's it called the so there's duck dot go do you see duck dot go they just yeah took took a bunch of funding i didn't do see that now yeah they sold a hundred million dollars worth of of secondary shares and they're doing over a hundred million in revenue right and then also do you know proton is it called proton male right the mean state funny no no i'd like i haven't heard so the funny thing is all these ideas i remember hearing about like duck go six years ago i remember reading about it i'm being like oh that's kinda weird like i thought it was like does anyone care like do people really care oh no it doesn't seem like they care move on proton male signal all these apps and then they were right their core insight which is that people are gonna care about privacy people are gonna care about not being tracked by big tech companies shopping being advertised to and they're gonna care about not having their all their messages stored forever in a way that could get leaked or hacked and you know you get canceled or you get your business secrets you know out like sony did right and so all those ended up being true and at the time for years they looked like non winners the people weren't really using it at the time i totally agree i thought it was stupid i'm doctor ago what talking about now i it's my it's my it's what i use you used it natural guys your default u i use it often and i'm starting to use it as default yeah and do you use brave because brave is the new one i think fits into this category brave brave no i haven't yet because switching from chrome is shockingly challenging right but switching for anything switching from mail messaging they're all they're all been is a bit easier isn't it why like switching my search thing yeah i mean i could probably get good results on bing or google i mean i i i i i'm just really trying to go to the wikipedia or quo or facebook or twitter right i'm pretty i'm pretty sure that private browsing basically you know like a a a brave brave or a brave like company five years from now we're gonna look at it and it's gonna be just like duck or signal in that like it just takes over slowly but surely i agree and i think that ten years from now we're gonna say like i can't believe you used to use x y and z and you would just do that like that's shocking me you used to just give up your location to to anybody to be advertised right you used to like alexa right you just have like a hot mic on in your house all the time right so those those are gonna see like strange strange that were with that that's the in flight so the other day if you didn't listen and we had this guy named mike maple on and he was kind of a genius and he just he talked about inflection and he's like what i i invest in early stage stuff and it's pretty impossible to predict what's gonna be big so i try to use some frameworks and i just basically think like you know what interesting things what interesting inflection are gonna in ten years it's gonna make x y and z possible but it's not possible right now and i'm gonna try and get into it so like for example uber what made it possible was everyone started having really great phones had gps is in it without those gps as it would have been very challenging to do this right and one of those inflection that i believe to be true and i'm trying to put my money where my mouth is gonna invest stuff like it is this privacy thing i believe that that i believe that to be true i believe that's gonna be a big thing coming up i don't know who's gonna win or what the what the end result will look like i believe for right you know what to look for and you know what's gonna look strange now right we talked about guardian that app on your phone that like it's like a auto vpn for for your mobile apps brave browser i think fits into that you know when mike mobile on he said something really fast that i thought was actually super insightful that we didn't really go into he goes he goes every like an era of tech the old valuable thing becomes like completely comm and there becomes a new valuable thing so what does that mean so he goes you know back when it was like at first you were selling pcs and all the money to be made was in the hardware and then you had like microsoft and others basically come up and they're like cool ibm you be the hardware we're gonna be the software and then like all the money shifted from being made into hardware to the hardware became completely comm and all the money was made in software applications and then it was like oh software applications are or you know like where all the money made and then people started making services like google and facebook it's like wait it's a free software application so then how do you make money it's like because data's is the valuable thing you don't realize that right microsoft doesn't realize that they're gonna charge you for the software we're gonna give away a free software but we're gonna make all the money on the data and it's like okay great and the shift that's happening now is that data is the thing that make money man we're gonna make our data open open source we're gonna make our blockchain open and anybody can build on top of it and we're gonna go open data so then where's is all the money to be made and then you have like kind of like a new answer that comes after that and so i thought that was like such a spot on observation and it's like that's how you observe that's how the next you know hundred billion dollar five hundred billion dollar company looks nothing like the last one if you're just looking to match what's the next microsoft you're never gonna think it's facebook this college social network that's free right you're never gonna think it's google the search and that's free you're gonna think it's supposed to look more like more like microsoft this like enterprise paid software thing but no it keeps switching because they they react to it in that way and so like that's why you know i got kinda made fun of when i was talking about bit cloud but bit cloud i think is an example of this where they took the most valuable part of facebook and twitter which is the the social graph and the data that's on that's underneath it and they were like nope that's gonna be freely available anybody can take our data you can make a better version of bit cloud you can like you can make a new skin make a new client you can make a fork off this the data is all open open chain which facebook would never give you access to their database that shows you every person their photos and their friends you can never get access like that it's their most prized possession and big cloud basically says that's now free when said we're gonna make our money on these crater coins right different a different method i think that you've set a lot of amazing stuff for the past two years i think this little rant right here might be the most like not valuable in the sense of like whenever you talk about like fluffy bullshit that's useful of like i need to have confidence yeah like that is useful i call it fluffy but it's incredibly useful i think what you just said right there actually might be one of the most valuable rants in terms of just money that you've ever said i think that i think that i do not have the ability to build pretty much any of the things that you're discussing i don't you might have the ability but i certainly don't i don't think you do either but i think that if you are listening to this and you think you have the ability to do some of the some of this stuff i think like there you we've very clearly just said a thesis of what like the world gonna be like in ten years and i would bet my own personal money that that actually is gonna be true and i think is gonna be not just true a little but like true a a significant amount right and there's not just one trend happening at once right like i remember talking to to alex to the founder of calm and he just believed that like mindfulness and being and you know calm and meditation was gonna become a bigger thing and there was multiple years where it was not getting it was not growing very fast because it wasn't a thing and then sure enough people started to feel really fatigued with technology they started to feel really busy and constantly on and the mobile phone was too much and then wow there's this app that like is actually designed not for me to constantly use it and check it keep checking the notifications over and over and over again this app is to calm me down and mindfulness and mental health became a thing and it's like yeah mental health became a thing and he was prepared he was ready with a solution for that that he had been baking for years yeah so i i think it's bullish or no bullish i think it's amazing and i think it's gonna be a you wanna do a couple more you wanna do this chick f a thing so i read this r i this blog post this article that the chick f a tech team put out and if i'm not the biggest chick f a customer on top five easily in the country so you know so anything chick f a i'm gonna read and what they were talking about was like chick f a using ai machine learning blah i was like let me see what this is some bullshit and i started reading it is actually pretty interesting first of all ninety percent of it was just over my head but i thought it was pretty fascinating what they were saying well first two things they kinda like they put their stake in the ground which i appreciate they go chick f a is you know a restaurant that's sort of different than others we're only open six days a week but we do more sales than people that are open seven days a week thing to say i was like baller like strive to be chick f a you know like i wanna be the chick f i wanna work less and make more than somebody who's working more and the the other the you know the other thing i thought about was like a lot of people hate chick f because they're like kinda like overly christian and like have like they're like anti gay marriage and stuff like that and i'm like oh that sucks but like this chicken is so good i'm gonna eat here you know like the chicken wins and the what i would always say is it's like i can like our kelly's voice but not like him like i can admit that i believe i can fly is like a bang and also say he's a horrible human being also you're not invited to my daughter's birthday party yeah like i could do both it is possible to do both and so with chick f a it's like i wanna stuff my mouth with chicken and then you guys you guys are wrong you know like that's how i wanna be so anyways i'm i'm like you wanna be like chick f a product so good you can actually be bats shit crazy or even offensive and still the person who disagrees with you they need your product it's that good it's must have so then they were talking about their tech and they were like well our stores when we design them we thought they're were only gonna handle like let's say just for simplicity say a hundred orders hundred customers a day or whatever but the actual usage the demand is so high for chick f a that we get three times more output than the store was designed for and he's so how do we do that right once you designed the store it's kind it's already built you can't really go back and change it so we've had to use technology to get three x the output that the thing was designed to do it goes so the first thing we tried to do was can we like predict demand better right so if you wanna pump orders out faster instead of waiting till after the order happens i should i should just say hey there's always a lunch rush at noon so i'm gonna throw a bunch of fries in and i'm just gonna know that i get this much demand he goes but the problem is there's too many variables you know a soccer game ends your nearby you get a rush of customers the weather changes and that that causes a dip in customers you know there's too much traffic on the highway that's that causes a dip so it's too unpredictable you can't just say fridays at noon are always gonna have this much demand too many external variables because so what we did do instead was we put like hundreds of sensors inside of a store so that in real time i'm basically taking the you know like the order as the person's typing it into the to the machine and that's that's being matched with a sensor that tells us how active the fry machine is and then it gives a signal to the worker basically like hey dude put more fries in there's gonna be more demand or whatever like they're taking all these signals and how many people in the drive through times this times that and basically making predictions of what do they need to make so that they can get that extra twenty percent of orders done per hour for throughput and so i thought there's just kind of interesting and i don't even fully understand the model and i'm kind of like i'm kind of like what's like it's not like mans explaining i'm like dumb explaining like the thing i just said is not actually what they do but it's the essence of what they do which is they take a they have a hundred and hundreds like sort of smart devices podcast is is we just so like they just they just it just it just bump boxes all they do is they just sell shit that like i mean the that's all probably they're not like expert at facebook ads or experts at like deal making for like supply change so i mean the to just do that right so so the point is there's like a hundred smart devices in the chick f that are feeding into a machine learning algorithm to put something out there so that a frontline worker who makes i don't know sixteen dollars an hour is able to be more effective and they're able to get more source more sales per square foot and so i started thinking like first of all i had no idea that like kind of old school companies like chick f a are that deep into like adding technology into their stores and their services and it made me think too for of two ideas the first is those people should spend the engineers working on that should spin out of chick f a and then go offer this as a service to every other restaurant is basically like hey chick f a spent fifty million dollars over the last five years developing the technology to make their store smarter so we generalized it and it's a product for you right and that's my my old export framework they should export this idea from chick f a and make it available to any any restaurant chain so that's like the first idea the second idea is what are the companies that are like mckinsey or like a consulting company because i assume chick f a when they go out in the job market they're trying to hire machine learning and ai engineers i bet they're finding it pretty hard to compete with like google and facebook and open ai and all these other companies like who what what great engineers is going to work for chick f a right like i think you'd be surprised you know who who crushed it with tech stuff or relatively speaking was walmart walmart had this amazing thing called the walmart innovation lab in silicon valley yep it was pretty sick and i went to i was reading the other day about the more most beloved brands amongst young people and it's like target what it's like vans starbucks one other one and like the number one most love brand is chick f a right maybe something probably sounds a powerful graduate is going to work for chick f a and they're cutting against the grain but i think most people are gonna go towards more traditional brands which really told me the way most companies are gonna solve this is not by having as much in house tech talent as consultants that basically take good tech talent but like hyper hyper charge them to get them to go faster and so i'm curious i bet this exist but i'm curious who's building like a mackenzie type of company like a badass consulting company that is only tech consulting it's hardcore engineer it's engineering specifically around like the new age stuff of machine learning and ai and i think that you could build a new mackenzie deloitte p w that is basically when your company needs tech and when when your company needs tech answers you basically hire this high price consulting firm that comes in and these guys are not suits that are great talker these are and make great pitch pitch decks these are engineers who come in and they actually build and the teach teacher team how to build and they build themselves which i know that or all these guys offer that you think they do offer it but i think their brand is not branded as this and so right i think there's an opportunity to come in and say we dress differently we talk differently we don't even do we don't have these ten other offerings that mckinsey has we are actually the best if you really wanna hire the best when it comes engineering you know all of our guys are straight out of facebook google stanford harvard that's our crew and these everybody's got a computer science degree you know this is our ceo look he's a nerd he's got tito dust on his shirt like that's who you're dealing with here whereas today i know that mckinsey and others are like offering offering these as part of their services and in in addition to like tax planning and like ten other things that they're gonna do you know like financial audits and like other shit so i think there's an opportunity to create like a big four type of consulting company if you just went all in on engineers i'm on i i'm on board i think it's cool i i think that any engineer who's smart though would never wanna start this business because that would be hard as fuck but i do think that there's so many cool things that started as agencies that eventually they create their own software and it becomes badass so for example i do think it would be cool to do this for five ten years and then eventually just make the software and you could become it it would be a really easy way or not easy straightforward way to have a bootstrap software company so have you ever heard of consensus no what is it so consensus is a it's it's of it's a version of this it's in the crypto space so it was started by this guy joe lu who was like one of the first kinda like six guys backing ethereum so he was like a yeah he was like ethereum pre launch i think he was one of the main funding sources essentially he came from the finance world and he believed in in ethereum and so he he's known as one of the cofounder of ethereum guy basically became a billionaire off of ethereum takes the ability he he takes that he basically spins off ethereum launches and instead of sticking with the ethereum foundation he creates consensus consensus is like we have an office in new york la shanghai whatever right like tokyo whatever they like kind of a traditional consulting model and but they weren't just doing consulting but what they do is they they had like in house projects so for example meta mask which is like the most popular ethereum wallet i think that's built into a browser was like either inc incubator there or they like kinda like found the guy who built it and brought them into consensus and and that was one of their projects but they basically they make like they'll go to like mastercard or visa and be like you guys keep hearing about blockchain right don't you need like just a a group of blockchain like specialists who can come and teach your company how how you should be using blockchain and we'll consult with you that will build projects for you and like we'll be kind of this like hybrid like agency incubator consulting company type of and they do like i think they said they forecast like sixty million of revenue in twenty twenty one now i should say personally think consensus is kind of a shitty company they hired like a thousand people i don't think they had like the business fundamentals to support any of that you know so i don't think consensus itself is gonna be that successful but that's an example of somebody who said cool all of the fortune five hundred is interest is curious and interested in this new age technology we can brand ourselves as the like d facto group of if you're a big fortune five hundred come talk to us about blockchain do what i'm looking this this consensus company's fucking nuts started just recently re oh no thousand fourteen yeah right after ethereum they do did this guy joseph lu help create ethereum yeah like i said he he was basically one of the big kinda like financial backers early leon on and kind of helped when they were pre launch he was involved when there was like know this group of seven or eight people that were helping build it and they each had to do role there's shit is creating in such a more short time is crazy do you like do you know that one guy okay so what was that disney movie called like the secret service kid or the first kid you remember first kid okay yeah i don't know where go of this okay you you remember that movie remember the kid actor i don't remember like fuck he was also in the the movie mighty ducks oh which one was he mighty decks i don't actually know what he was in my what the name was but name's brock pierce okay do you know who brock pierce is he's also in sin bad yeah well no sin bad was the the the lead secret security guard first kid okay you remember this movie i love this movie yeah it's great right okay yeah this guy's name is brock pierce he's a bitcoin billionaire now what yeah dude google brock pierce so he was a kid he was in mighty ducks he plays young gordon bombay so he's not one of the the kids he's he's the flashback of gordon bombay as a kid yeah but he was like a a well known actor like he was in first kid was a thing he was in little big league he just did all like the nineties like kid movies kid movies yeah every movie everyone if you if you are born in in the eighties you recognize recognized who this kid is if you're thirty one like me and sam then you like you'll recognize who this guy is dude google him he's a big he he's was worth like a billion dollar hilarious you'll recognize him he's got he's a bitcoin crypto guy he wears that stupid hat a stupid hat now that's just thing go to images go get brock pierce oh okay yeah i see him is that yeah he's a stupid hat leather vest guy like that's like like go puerto rico dude that guy is a is a billionaire now because he was in on crypto in like twelve thirteen fourteen he's like he's like hey i need a i need all those royalties from the first kid we're putting it into eth put it into the east crowd sellers let's do this it's just the amount of wealth that this is has created and so quickly it's just crazy it's just it's fun it's such a fun story but brock pierce the fucking ers kid gordon bombay bay when he was a kid whatever the guy's name was he's a bitcoin billionaire there he's he's billy of the week that's it that favorite two of my favorite things in my life were mighty ducks and bitcoin and this guy's involved with both of them now i don't know but on i read his wikipedia the other day he's got like some shady shit going on where mean obviously if you kinda look at them i'm kinda screams shady but he like his partner was like raping kids i mean it was pretty fucked up and like if your partner doing that i'm not saying you're guilty but i'm saying like you probably like are involved like i i just get like yeah like where there's smoke there's fire type of thing it's kinda fucking weird to me and so there's like a this guy's got a lot it this guy gonna be like the modern day mca fee you know like yeah these guys years became a billionaire and then also like like did some crazy shit in botswana where the fuck went that's what those guy's gonna do anyway rock pierce crazy right that's crazy okay by the way i also have this selling little calculator in excel that i should publish which is will the wing v get the wing v twins get the last laugh which is what does the price of bitcoin need to be for them to end up wealthier or their mark zuckerberg for taking know taking their idea and making facebook and and then i thought about it i was like i wonder if zach just own some bitcoin as a hedge to be like you'll never you'll never pass me but i i don't think you've got that petty street i'm thinking about selling my facebook stock me because i think like i've totally done one and eighty i think facebook's wack is fuck now but why it's just lame like who uses that now i mean twitter is just ticking it it's just wack and instagram i think it's even stupid now i love how you're like who uses that like a billion people could raise their hand it'd be like me every day multiple times a day i just think that it's just lame i think tiktok is so much better and more positive i like it more but i think that z is someone i would never bet like i think that he's just the greatest in terms of did you see the video of him spear hunting recently no what is he doing did you gotta google this google mark zuckerberg spear and there's this video so he only went hunting or whatever or he he went on a hunting trip i that might be separate then he's he's like at this little like kinda like a throwing range and there's like a giant target and then you see mark zuckerberg working in slow mo running up at it with a spear and then launching the spear and getting a bull's eye in the target and it's just like is everything you would expect out of a zuckerberg video which is like you know two parts awkward robotic one part like sort of fearsome and weird at the same time i'm yeah i'm looking at it now i mean this is just yeah wow hey you got it by the you you said tiktok you should follow this tiktok account it's amazing it's called metallic doing things so metallic who's the cofounder of ethereum he's also like z like hilariously awkward i really love the guy i think he's like when he talks yeah he might have like kind of an awkward way of talking but i love his thoughts i love his brain basically it seems like a very genuine guy he doesn't just like shi ethereum and like crypto and say it's the best thing ever and all that like he's just like way more reasonable and clearly like mission driven i'm looking at it now his story kind amazing by the way like what's he like like an adopted russian kid or something do you do you know how this guy like got started in crypto no since he's eighteen years old he like discovers crypto hit he starts by just he agrees to write free article or write articles for bitcoin magazine back on owners it like super underground at the time and as you know bitcoin magazine paid them three dollars and fifty cents per article and he's like writing all about bitcoin and like all the cool things you're gonna be able to do with cryptocurrencies he's just like a kid and he used to like go to different crypto projects and meet them and be like hey i'd love to like help or like intern or like kinda like right about you guys and he started just getting known as kinda like this little blogger boy and then like little blogger boy goes on to like he he helped write the white paper for one idea called colored coins that was like gonna be for this other project and then eventually decides like you know what like i have all these ideas about how i think crypto chase world like i'm just gonna make it myself i'm gonna make ethereum and so he invented ethereum at like age eighteen or nineteen and like is the youngest crypto billionaire in the world since where's does the name come from russia what's that mean oh no ether ethereum oh i don't know why you named it ethereum ether is like kinda like it's sort like i don't know if you know what ether is it sort like this it's like out of the ether it's like this like it's like the substance of the world it's basically like i don't know how you describe it ether really it's like a it's like matter it's like this it's like a word like matter in the universe and so i don't know why he called it ether i think it was like i don't no i don't know the back shouldn't really speculate well you should have figured that out i thought you're like bet your life savings on this i saw i took one look at this guy and i was like i'm gonna hitch my wagon into this nerd this this guy's taken me to the top i think that's a good i think that's a good bet to be honest the tiktok channel metallic doing things is amazing comedy because he's just a very unintentionally comedic guy dan posted it so he goes i immediately realized that i'd like it better than all the other alternatives that i'd and i suppose it was fact that it sounded nice and it had the word ether referring to the hypothetical and invisible medium that perm the universe and allows light to travel right yeah yeah it's okay you wanted it on alright i think that's the show right yeah that's it yeah i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to put my all in it like a days off on a goal travel never looking back