#185 with Andrew Wilkinson - The Secretive Billionaire Who Acquired Burger King, Creating Better Babies & How Much Money is Enough?

and you said you you'd wanna invest your own money and that's what you said here yeah i i would love if anyone wants to do this i a hundred percent invest so please email me but this is one of those things we're like i feel like i could rude to world i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a day's off on a road travel never looking back alright everyone be have a special episode with andrew wilkinson andrew wilkinson started this company called meta lab which grew to make tens of millions of dollars and using the profits from his agency meadow lab he eventually bought dozens of more companies so he's collectively his companies do hundreds of millions of dollars of a year in sales and have created over a billion dollars with the value so he's seen a lot of interesting stuff and in today's episode we talk about an incredibly success successful business person that he looks up to it's our segment called billy of the week and then we talk about some of the ideas that he has for studying growing companies he will currently launched a local news business so it's kinda like my company the hustle but for different cities it's very fascinating i've i'm asking him if i can join as an adviser and he started a few more things and or wants to start more stuff and he's even said that if you are starting of these companies to holler adam because he wants to invest so give it a listen and by the way if you're in miami sean and i on june fourth they're gonna be in miami we're doing austin on june third but that's already sold out but june fourth we have room for up to four hundred people i think already two hundred people rs feed it's free go to my twitter handle bus sam par and scroll down you'll see the event event right link it's totally free june fourth it's friday come and by the way we've been working our ass off to make content for you just for you can you do me a favor and click subscribe in itunes and click follow on spotify when you do that we go higher up in the charts which means more people can see us which means we get more views and if we get more views we can keep doing this more and more and more because we're making some more money from it and we're able to dedicate more time to this so please i work my butt off for you just click subscribe and click follow on spotify and subscribe in itunes i appreciate it hope you enjoy the episode andrea what's going dude hey man how you doing you got really bad a really bad cold i spent all day yesterday with clean x up my nose so if my voice sounds a little frog that's why it only sounds frog because you said it's sounded frog i think you're okay so andrew wilkinson good friend of mine good friend of the pod is this description that i used three or four weeks ago the same description is that is that the same thing are you wearing that same personality at the same life or have you done something new and amazing because you're always pulling something obviously yeah i've got i think since then i've launched a couple of business is actually but no the description is still accurate and so we're gonna talk about a couple things the first thing we're gonna talk about is well you got a a bunch of ideas here i'm excited for the ideas but i wanna talk about billy of the week because we talked about two people last time you were here and that was it's right next to the the biology episode as the most listen in episode ever really no way which which episode was that the build the one where we did the two billy week yeah so like i think almost fifty thousand people listened to it which is like it's an hour long thing it's a lot of time crazy and then the third most listen thing was the one we did after that so you know it could see it okay yeah so aside move aside sean yeah so it's like biology is like at whatever it is you're like within hundreds or like a thousand of it and then near the next two and so that's my configurable will start off with that one but you sent me i i yesterday i asked you to tell me an interesting person and i'm gonna go do a ton of research on them and i did and i have a feeling you already know a lot about this person but what's this what's his person's name so his name is i don't know how to say it i think it's jorge george paolo it's brazilian name george brain is brazilian oh there you go okay can you say his name please and every time we need to say his name we'll just say ab bra i say his first name his last name is german so i don't know if there's a right way of saying but his first name is josh paul and then like be paolo is his considered his first name as well because in a lot of the articles i read about them they call the sorry jo paolo it might be as middle paulo might be his middle name or it might be like a double first name i'm not sure but s paulo lemon yeah but do this guy's totally mysterious he doesn't like to talk about what he does there's only a few interviews with him online but he basically i mean if you think about the businesses that he owns you would know them so burger king bud budweiser tim hortons kraft foods popeyes heinz ketchup up right so he basically goes out he finds these amazing you know multi generational businesses that have been around for fifty plus years that do something very very simple it's just gonna grow over time he goes out he usually raises a ton of debt and then he goes and buys them and takes them over and he's been doing this for i don't know forty years or something like that starting in brazil let's give a little bit of background of him so hal he he's about seventy five years old right and he's based out of brazil he's a brazilian guy and when he started at the time i don't think that there were these like brazilian ty you know every article that i read about they said that he was one of the first folks in in brazil to become one of these private equity or or warren buffett like people out of brazil and like you said very little is known about them and he doesn't give interviews and and a lot of the interviews that i read about him they said we actually try to talk to a bunch of his friends and nearly all of his friends said you know thank you for reaching out but he's politely asked us not to speak about him in interview so he prefers to stay behind the scenes and the way that his career started in is in nineteen thirty one at the age of thirty two he had he had some jobs beforehand where he was a banker but he started this one bank you wanna help me out here here's what it's per here's how you pronounce it you see that right there it's called grand i don't see it you put in the chat it's it's highlighted in the doc okay i think it's gu or something like that that okay and it was described as like the goldman of brazil i don't know if it was described at the time like that but he was thirty two when he launched it it was nineteen seventy one and what made it kind of famous was he had a very i wouldn't call a laid back culture but he didn't look at resumes but instead he looked for what he described as ps which was poor let me see what does ps stand for it we're smart and deep desire to get rich yeah poor smart and beat desire to get rich that's what he looks for was people who had ps and he would hire these folks and it in for you previously at different companies you would automatically get a bonus if you were one of the partner but they created some type of system that was they try to make it as based off of merits as much as possible so a lot of different people can get bonuses and also the bonuses you could choose do you want more stock or do you want more cash and it was a great way to incentivize people and it kinda created this iconic culture that that seems what they're they're famous for and it grew to be quite huge it was something like a billion dollars in profit at one year but he said that they got cocky and they str up they they over bought some stuff and it eventually went south and it sold for six hundred fifty million dollars which is a still a ton of money but i think it was minuscule compared to how big it got so i have question for andrew and and then we're gonna get into this g thing so then after he sold it for six fifty he started buying gillette stock and with his other older founders of the old company he started three g which was a play on their name and there's three partners and ended up buying burger king tim hortons all all the companies that you said and at this point he's worth something like twenty five billion dollars and one the one of the richest people in the world but i had a ton of questions that about this guy that i think that you might know or at least do you have a better input than i do the first is how on earth like when people say they're starting a bank like he did what's that process like that sounds so ambiguous it's so hard to understand well i think like people here bank and they think like oh a big pile of money like wells fargo or something but bank the term banker means so many different things it could be somebody who works in a bank and lends out money or whatever but a banker is really like a real estate agent for businesses right or for bonds or equities or whatever it is so it's like a person you go to or a group of people you go to to who will figure out problems for you and facilitate transactions so let's say you sam go i need to raise a hundred million dollars of debt for the hustle because i need to expand a banker will go out and they will go to all the wealthy people they know and all the different you know corporations and say hey here's this great guy you should lend the money and then they take a fee in between and so in a lot of ways this is the world's best business you're a middle on these huge transaction multi billion dollar transactions and you're taking a two and a half to five percent fee on everything you do so with like fifty to a hundred people you can do crazy amounts of money what skill set so when this guy started at thirty one thirty two what skill set would you have needed in order to make this happen well it's really heavy on two things one it's like sales and stuff and then the other is kind of financial acumen and modeling and all that so you'd probably get a bunch of people in the office who are like super hardcore spreadsheet junky excel types who can like figure out you know how to structure a deal and then you'd also have people who can do the very high level sales right so they're basically smooth talking and calling and selling and positioning everything to facilitate all the deals do you consider yourself a banker no i actually generally really hate dealing with bankers and i i think it's kinda like real estate agents right like i'm very skeptical of real estate agents i think in the next fifty years they probably won't exist a lot of the time a real estate agent is just a person who puts up a listing online for you opens the door for a few people and then takes a huge fee which seems a crazy and out of line right and and now there's great real estate agents let's say have a weird property that might not sell they know how to spruce up there's one there's one in a hundred that's amazing and we'll sell your property for more but a lot of the time they're useless and the same thing is kind of true with bankers i think if you've got a great business and you wanna raise money you should just go and call a bunch of wealthy people and try and raise the money yourself because at the end of the day a lot of the time what bankers do is build some decks and then breathe on the phone while you talk to other people and then take a huge fee how much money have you raised we've raised maybe well depends on it depends on how you think about it so i would say in the neighborhood of a two two hundred two hundred and fifty million or something like that if you include our ipo or our reverse takeover we just did not including that what's it a hundred two hundred maybe oh so the the spa that you did wasn't a sixty it was sixty million that was that was how much we raised when we took that business public wow so then your funds have well over a hundred yeah and you didn't use a banker for any of that no we just called people we knew i mean we had we bundled into this world like i had no idea five years ago six years ago even i didn't know what the difference between a banker at a bank teller was i had no idea and because of that we just kinda kept meeting interesting business people and as we met interesting business people they keep saying hey are you guys raising money because i'd love to invest with you and so eventually when we had big enough deals that were interesting and we wanted partners i just called those people and we did it ourselves so back to this guy he like when you're starting something like this and this is i you like this guy because i imagine like you you you kinda wanna you wanna steal some of his life right i mean you wanna you wanna you you you wanna emulate parts he's done yeah well i think like we're probably similar in that like we're both attracted to these really simple businesses like selling beer or razors like there's both of us come from like this weird tech world where we do this like knowledge work you you write an email newsletter i do a design and then two years later it doesn't exist right i like the longevity in the the kind of simplicity of more traditional businesses so i love that and i think the idea of just buying these super safe boring steady eddie businesses that do something simple in the world and just making them better actually sounds like a lot of fun and i wrote a note below but the key thing about the what he does is generally they have one key insight right so it'll be something as simple as when they bought bud budweiser it was on the third generation they've gotten super rich right so it was like the first generation built it the second generation like were amazing they went to harvard they grew it the third generation took over they got sloppy didn't really care about growth they had fancy offices and private jets and stuff and so when they bought it they just look at it and go oh it's been running a kind of a sloppy way and they've lost their discipline we can buy it with a lot of debt and then we can just make it way better pay off our debt and then we own budweiser and so it's this crazy coup for these guys from brazil who know they came from basically you know started at zero although i think they were you know upper middle class in brazil but starting there to owning bud budweiser crazy and i wanna ask you about how to get into those deals and and when i read about them it sounded like he was the young guy of a three person partnership which definitely i think he's actually the old guy so there's the two younger guys the younger guys actually going and they run the businesses so like one of the partners i believe went in and runs runs what is it called qs r which is like owns tim hortons and all that stuff sorry i meant from his first thing so his first thing got him his big nut his first thing yeah made him like six fifty or they sold for six fifty and from what it sounds like it was like a an a little bit of an older guy who had a little bit in there done that kinda brought him in long and he was the young guy of that partnership totally yeah and then he did the same thing and now he has younger partners right and and so i have i had a few questions about this but i wanted to so let's just talk about this guy's strategy at 3g and and his whole wife and seats he's done the same thing which is he's a cheap he's frugal he's incredibly frugal so he's done a couple like he has a few like phrases that they would say which is like he's like costs are like fingernails you have to cut them constantly and he would do famous things like when they bought burger king they banned color copies meaning when you're using the photo copy machine he was like just black of white only you also what what was this thing you said about private jets they they also force people to print on both sides so they'd say you not only can you not print color but you have to print double sided so the first thing they would always do whenever they buy business is they sell all the private jets immediately right and let's let's be real most fortune five hundred companies have like between one and ten private jets and they just say f that we don't need those they sell them and it's kind of a statement and then from that point on the new ceo and all the executives they have to fly economy and they have to stay in motel and they all they it's i love that right i think it just sets the tone from the top in a really interesting way and these are people i mean the ceo of ab b in bev he's probably worth like hundreds of millions of dollars and he's staying at like a quality in but i think there's something to demonstrating that at the top if you want your lower lower level employees to care to i actually think that that's a stupid thing so i get staying at cheap hotels because checking it staying at like a marriott courtyard which is like a eighty nine dollar a thing i'm on board with that it's probably even cheaper so it's fifty bucks i'm cool with that it's just that you can have a fine clean comfortable place although i do like having room service because if you get into a place late you want that but whenever these people say they fly economy i'm like that's kinda stupid if i fly overnight i need a comfortable i need to be comfortable so i could like be ready to roll you know you're like you don't want your athlete to like work off the two hours sleep do you actually believe that people do that i think they do i mean maybe it's just lore maybe these guys are super rich and they pay for it personally or something like that but i i don't know i mean i think if you're i know like walmart has a big corporate jet fleet and they actually have a really good argument for it which is they're constantly visiting stores and that's their way of kind of like whipping all the store managers and making sure they do a good job and so they have all these tiny little jets that fly between small towns and if they were to fly commercial it would take ten days to do two days of work so i think there's a good argument for it there but i can't imagine the ceo of ad in bev needs to be flying all over the world constantly if he's flying once or twice a month it's not a big deal on a commercial plane or whatever i just think it's kind of a i think it's a neat thing to do i personally like you know i i wouldn't i would feel bad like i would be worried that i'm gonna get the a worst ceo because they want like their perks or whatever but the kind of people these guys hire like these guys when they took over burger king they hired a thirty five year old as a cfo right or maybe even a thirty year old on the one is the ceo yeah yeah i i wrote about it they i hired a thirty two year old who was part of their management company and he took it over and he kicked ass a few things that he did was at the time burger king was on was trying to ever ties predominantly towards the young man and he goes nope we're gonna be for everyone so we're gonna advertise for everyone another thing that he did was do remember the king burger king like the king yeah he was like that's kinda creepy get rid of that and then the the third thing that he did was at the time burger king employed like twenty eight thousand people so they owned most of their restaurants and they would hire the people he goes no we're gonna switch to a franchise and we're gonna help all these franchise owners line up loans so you guys can make your own places really nice and we're gonna help you make it nice and that was the big switch that he did now burger king i believe it this is we've seen this in our own investing like often having one thesis right so the thesis could be hey margins are really shitty you know they're they're five percent they should be fifteen percent and we can do that via via very simple improvements or something simple like this burger king deal where they went into big debt and they actually paid up a really high price to do it but the insight they had was well as soon as we take over we're just gonna spin out all of our corporate owned locations and franchise them and by doing that we're gonna raise all the money to pay off our debt right and so they did that and then they ended up taking it public with acumen actually and did it insanely well in it oh that's interesting and when they did it there there was a funny story about the guy who we're talking about i'm gonna try and say same over time what is it s powell i wanna when i see it i wanna say jorge but anyway he so there there's a funny story about them that he had never had burger king until they bought the company and it was like a multi billion dollar deal he didn't eat it until they bought the company and when he eat ate it he was like ugh this is too big and he's known for like really only drinking water and eating really healthy but he owns you know non healthy stuff what's your take on that do you think that it does that rub me the wrong way or are you like no i think i think it rubs me the wrong way i think if he sounds like he's really good at kind of being secretive and p that's exactly the sort of thing i wouldn't wanna give out or i wouldn't want in out in public or whatever i think it sounds kinda lame so this type of business that you like and i i enjoy too but would when i was reading all about them would you say this boy the to me it boils down to you have to be good at fundraising raising money so you have to be good at getting convincing some type of rich institution or rich people to give you money the second thing you have to get good at is you have to recruit really really talented people typically people that are highly recruited at other places typically people who could start their own thing typically build the people who are probably already wealthy you have to hire them and then third and probably most important you have to be really good at inspiring and leading them so you have to be a leader of leaders is that like the three three pillars to this am i exact you nailed it really and it's really really hard the hardest part is recruiting the the amazing people like our biggest challenge isn't doing deals it's like we could do a deal every month it's how can we find enough amazing people to run all these businesses and then how can we validate that they're gonna be able to do what we need from them and you know you think about like that thirty two year old he was probably working in head office for ten years and they saw all this stuff but it's a huge chance to hand that to him and that could've have gone really really poorly but i i think that's exactly that's the warren buffett playbook right it's like how do you be a leader of leaders how do you give them positive coaching without like getting too involved in the day to day and the fundraising part actually seems like the easiest fundraising honestly like it was so when we did we have a we have a fund and which we raised drink covid just because we thought we were gonna get mob and it was really weird we actually covid was like like we thought we were gonna have no no we thought we're gonna have like overwhelming amounts of deals to do and we thought it be a great time to have a excess capital and that didn't happen right everyone who was actually weirdly optimistic and government wrote the check and all that stuff but but doing doing the money raising wasn't actually that hard like running an agency for or owning an agency for fifteen years and doing sales for a long time like that's easy you just have a fun conversation with someone you walk them through a deck you point to track record that that was totally fine the hard part is really the execution of the actual deals and hiring the right people and i would argue i mean i don't know really what i'm talking about entirely this is strictly from reading it seems like executing the deals is hard but it's not that hard the hard part is really the people part is that and we i would we've done deals we just did our biggest deal ever and it was over a hundred million dollars and it was no more work or complexity than doing a one million dollar deal in it in fact it was simpler than a one million dollar deal because it's just a better business with a better team in place and more momentum what hard is always complicated people well in our in our public company we bought a company called stamp which is one of the top ratings and reviews apps on shopify we just close that dollars it's a a a hundred and hundred and ten i believe total it gets out it's a structure you'd have to look at the press release for the exact structure but wow it's in or around there and when i was reading this i'm in the middle of reading human nature by robert greene and the reason have you heard of that it's an amazing book i've been reading that too have you really wow it's amazing isn't it crazy it's not good it's so everything he does is great and the laws the laws of human nature isn't it called right yeah the laws of human nature and i already read it and now i'm reading it again but i'm studying it like i wasn't like i'm taking a semester of robert greene and the reason why i am reading it is because i thought that when i was getting into business all that would matter is like business and you're like well what's business it's like i don't know like i guess selling stuff making the product really good in my business it was like i'm just gonna write words that people like like it's really simple but what i've learned is it's far more important to understand and motivate human beings and have really effective day to day interactions with people and in order to do that you have to have a little bit of a i'll call it like a machiavelli type of thing to you where like people love you yet they're far a little bit fearful of you they kind of view you as like a little bit of mysterious like you have to attract these people and they have to both wanna be around you yet think that you're formidable and be a little bit like nervous of like oh man if i don't join this person who they're gonna crush me or live up to your expectations what do you mean well like basically how do you one of the thing like some of the some people i've worked with have this thing where you just want you always wanna raise the bar and you always wanna live up to their expectations so they say this is the bar this is what i expect from you but they do it in a very flattering way like you're really smart you work really hard i'm so impressed with you i know you can achieve this right and then they set this crazy bar and you just naturally wanna live up to the expectations and definitely with that well just different different partner business partners and stuff i've dealt with over the last couple years but but like with employees and stuff i've always had this habit of wanting to be liked and i still wanna be liked but i wanna be firm and i wanna have boundaries because in the past what i've done is in wanting to be liked i've excused like somebody failing and so like it's okay don't worry about it it's fine and then i'd quietly just dismiss them and then not use them for tasks like that whereas i think it's actually really important to be like hey look like it's okay you f up but like you let me down and here's why you let me down and here's how this impacted everything or here's the bar and here's how what i need from you and whatever it is and i've always been terrible at that it's crazy i mean elon musk has a bill act who you know has it this guy who we're talking about he definitely had it when i looked out of him and i like would see how he would dress and how he helped himself you know travis ka kinda has it where they're just like you're just you're afraid of them in the way of like they inspire me but like they they can crush it like the it whatever they whenever they set their mind too they're gonna get done and that's regardless if you agree with their ethics are not but you definitely could agree that like these guys are gonna they're go places there's just there's a great story about a sheryl sam good facebook i forget who who told this story but she goes i was in a meeting with cheryl and i you i gave this presentation and then she walked to me outside and she said during your presentation it was great but you kept saying like only stupid people say like and you're not stupid and then she walked away right and you can look at that and go oh my god i can't believe she did that that's so mean but the way she told it was like it was a kind of a backhand handed compliment that told her something that was embarrassing it's like saying like hey you have like you know you have lettuce us in your teeth or whatever you don't wanna hear it but like it's helpful and i think i've been very bad at that kind of stuff i think you need to give more firm feedback back that stories is from rat rat candid rat or whatever out radical can it's a good one but as i was reading this guy i'm like man in order to get into some of these deals like hines whatever in order to attract these i mean basically like this guy and the folks who we talk about and maybe i think you as well andrew the you're like uncommon amongst the uncommon and you have to lead the killers so like you've gotta be the killer amongst killers and that is kind of like a fascinating thing to think about because bring to bring it back to what i originally said when i got in into business i thought it was all about coming up with creative ideas it's like no it's gotta be a leader of men and women and that's really hard so i've been studying how to do that and i've been studying like war leaders has been studying you know who really is good at this like celebrities he's like marilyn monroe it's like it's basically kinda s deduction a little bit and how do you just like get people under your spell and pull your spell not positive but i don't yeah i think like there's a i think it sounds stressful though like the idea of like i'm gonna be a killer and i'm gonna you know do all this stuff and be machiavelli valley like i really don't i don't like that feeling of like feeling like i'm manipulating someone what i like think about more what's been more instructive for me is just reading psychology like robert geraldine den and all that stuff and figuring out incentives and one of the things i've learned is that if somebody is incentivized to not work as hard as you or not care as much as you they won't right so people do whatever it's it's shocking but they'll do whatever whatever the financial or day to day lifestyle incentive where they can take the path of least resistance they will and then they'll create their own narrative for why they're doing it right they might say i'm not working hard because you know i don't like my work environment or whatever or there's a problem with management or whatever it is but often it's actually them just going why would i work harder i don't make more money right i don't get a bonus for working harder i clock in my time or whatever so i think a lot of the time this stuff is just an incentives problem and that that's pervasive through everything going back to realtors they have a incentive to just sell your house for the lowest price to get it done to a garrett to lock in their fee they have an incentive against you i agree with you that that is part of the that is that is that is a portion of it i would say that there's if there's two portions those are both them but i think you're totally full of shit and that you don't care about this because you do your for your your public image is and i don't know if you mean to do this or not but i'm i'll tell you what your image is is like you're like a cool guy like you dressed nice you've got slick back hair you're good looking you have these cool glasses you're a designer i mean brother look at like the website what's the url of of tiny tiny capital tiny capital you use the same wonderful imagery used like you have a brand and a brand is is exactly this machiavelli thing that i'm describing of how manipulate the feel don't know emotion i don't know i think in the word machiavelli but you are manipulating people to feel a certain way and you're no absolutely but it's a copy right like knowing how to write good copy what you're really doing is you're taking people along for an emotional journey by using various words right and there's two ways to look at it one is oh it's who's super manipulative or the other is no you're trying to communicate and you're an effective communicator right and don't get me wrong we definitely do like yuck up the kind of the softness of what we do but it comes from like you know we dealt with wall street bankers we dealt with people trying to acquire companies they were shitty so this is me going oh well i hated that how can i market to those people who have the same hatred that i did or whatever but yes you there's definitely a lot of public public image stuff that we think about so we'll wrap up with this billy of the week segment but what's your main takeaways from this guy and there there's a book about him it's called like greatness i think i i couldn't find i saw in portuguese i don't know if there's an english version yeah it's called oh what is it a dream big dream amazon yeah it's quite good i read it maybe four or five years ago what's your main takeaways from this guy why i think it's what what can i learn from him and what should i avoid i think it's like you don't need to do something innovative and crazy right you don't need to be the next elon musk or start some crazy technology you can just choose a traditional business that's very poorly run and run it better and i you know even better if it's a business that's low risk growing and kind of successful despite bad management or you know bloated cost structure or something and you lower wrote something in here that was important which is different than how i perceived you as doing which was you need to be comfortable comfortable taking on outside capital and having partners well i think like for this exact structure right so what they do they raise a lot of debt and that allows them to have you know a lot of control because they have debt but it's silent not involved in the operations and that gives them the ability to just like overrule and take over and you gotta raise a lot of i mean if you're gonna go buy heinz catch up like that's not the kind of deal you can get like a crazy deal on you're gonna have to pay the highest market price for in order to do that you gotta raise a lot of money compared to what we do like we're not buying the heinz catch up we're buying the like random local catch up brand right that's like been successful in a small niche those deals you can find oh and i i wanna ask one more question before you wrap up actually so i actually was thinking about this so like you're further along your viewers older than me but not only a couple years older but in terms of like career success you you're you're a fair bit ahead of me in terms of like you know we're both going down the same path and then one path in front of that your friends with guys like bill act these folks that are worth you know billions of dollars in that and and gotta like they're just doing shit so like along this path let's say the spectrum of people doing stuff it starts with like an scrappy internet nerd in their bedroom like you and i were and then it comes to like alright you get a little bit of success like i have and then it comes like alright you're starting to like move things a little bit but even you said you're still a pit compared to like you know an enactment or whatever what how does this this transition from going from like someone who's kind of interesting to like a mover and shaker on a at a global scale how do you does that kind seem like a crazy transition to you because it it it's kinda of like you're not far from that it scenes but like these guys like bill act when they say something they're in the news when they say when they like make a trades every once in a while it can like impact millions of people yeah i mean i don't i look i just look and look up and see how far we have to go i still feel really really small and you start you know like you know when you like you're running your company and you're like you tell people like oh we do a million dollars a year in profit and to you that's like crazy amount of money and then you realize oh my god there's businesses out there that do thirty million or a hundred million or a billion dollars of profit every year and the numbers just keep getting bigger i just find as we get bigger i just start talking to people who have businesses that are way bigger and you know it's funny you mentioned ac i mean ac i don't know what he's worth probably like four or five six billion dollars but this george apollo guy he's worth twenty five right and so everyone's looking up at some some person that they wanna be and someone doing bigger stuff i think it's kind of like the analogy i would use is if you're an athlete and you start out as just some casual high school athlete and then you end up in the olympics and you just keep rising up and doing more and more stuff and eventually you look around and go like whoa holy crap i've made it to the olympics this is crazy but i don't necessarily think it buys you any happiness or a better life necessarily and i think there's a really interesting decision of well do you wanna be a mover in shaker is it worth all the downsides i think there are quite a few no shit i agree alright let's talk about some ideas what we're gonna talk about is not necessarily an idea but something that you're working on right now i wanna talk about capital daily because i've seen you i've seen this from the beginning and i'm getting update and this latest update sounds pretty amazing yeah so i mean the last two years actually let me just zoom out and i'll say talk about what happened so basically i read the newspaper every day i would read the new york times in wall street journal and read all this incredible investigative reporting and then i would pick up my local paper which is called the times columnist here in victoria canada and it was just there's nothing it was like they didn't have any journalist they laid and off and it was all just like ap wire service so it's like international news and i was like how the hell do i figure out what's going on in my own city and i realized there was a few people doing local reporting but there's this gap there and so i thought okay well i want this i'm sure other people do and i looked at buying the local paper actually but they wanted like a crazy amount of money they had like printing presses like you know union sized employees it's like a cruise ship not a speed boat it would be a pain in the ass to buy it and so i went to a friend who is a a stay at home mom who had some experience doing a bunch of writing and i said hey why don't we just start a mailchimp account and we'll come up with a brand we called it capital daily and we'll send her a daily newsletter and we'll just summarize like hey here's like three or four stories of things that are happening in town so we start doing this and i i have a friend who runs a ppc agency and i get him to just go by ads and i realized i can buy ads for like nothing no one's advertising for local news bring that down so you're saying you you had a friend that would would buy advertising to to get new users and you said hey could you see if you could run some ads to get email subscribers to capital daily yeah i was like how do i get this to scale as quickly as possible a i saw an opportunity and b i realized that in local news usually there's one winner right so historically there's usually been one big newspaper and so i was like do i get this as big as possible as fast as possible and i was also just impatient i was like i have money i can afford to do it i'm just gonna spend like two hundred grand on ads and so we spent i don't know a hundred two hundred grand and very quickly we got to like twenty five thousand subscribers and i just started hiring journalists and built out a team and it would it was crazy like i would be in a cafe and people would stop me and be like hey are you the capital daily guy like thank you so much it's amazing like the first thing i do when i wake up and drink my coffee is read your newsletter and that was an amazing feeling like i've got all these other businesses that are like big and i've never ever ever felt that sense of community and just like doing something important and so i was having a lot of fun with it we started hiring a whole bunch of people and we realized like hey this is hard like the advertisers don't understand it like people who buy newspaper ads they're just stuck in their ways they're old they're like all boomers and stuff and so we're having a really hard time selling ads i also built this big news team and was like burning all this money and i was kind of freaking out going like i don't know if this is have i got myself into some trouble here but little over six months a year ago i partnered with this guy far and he had scaled the biggest local news site in vancouver and he took over his ceo and now he's monetized it and i think we're gonna break even very soon on the local stuff in victoria we've started selling out ads and i think like on a unit economic basis where we look at victoria it's now profitable and it can be very profitable if our membership model works and we've started expanding so we've now got six or seven different newsletters in different areas mostly here in canada and we're scaling on i'm super excited about it so is that over story media group yeah so go ahead i it's funny we like we we chose the name i like the name over story but we got cute and we're like oh story media group is o g and that looks cool as a logo and so we chose story media group but then now everyone calls at that and i hate that name but i i really like over story okay over story so over story is the parent company that owns capital daily yeah dude it looks like you have like fifty people working there yeah we've we've scaled a lot over the last little bit are these all big bet yeah these are all pretty much all full time people how much did you invest to start this business i think at this point i've probably spent to just over two million bucks but you have to remember that probably the first seven hundred k was just me me not monetizing it soon enough and just focusing on building the audience first so i think we probably spent two hundred two hundred and fifty k in ads and then we probably burned an unnecessary five hundred k like hiring the wrong people and kind of like experimenting so really like at this point we have the biggest news business in my city for probably seven hundred and fifty to a million and i think that business can probably at scale probably do five hundred to a million in profit once we're actually like going so i feel pretty good about it but now we're taking this bigger bet that you know we can basically roll out local news across canada and far far is your coat is he's like the the founder founder yeah and so you attracted him because you go i'll put up the money if you run it exactly like i said look i've already kind of got this thing proven the model out and you know he was looking for his next thing and it was one of those things you know when you just meet someone and you go oh my god i wanna do business with this person and they just have the right background like he'd done he'd spent like five ten years doing the exact thing that i needed so it's a total no brainer dude i feel like this is a much bigger deal than you're making it seem yeah it's pretty crazy what it's become and it's you know it goes back to i have in total i spend a lot more time on this business than the others because it's like a passion project and i'm a consumer of it right i read it every morning and i give them feedback and i think i know far with like daily text about it but i've only really spent a few probably less than a week of time on this and the key leverage point has just been bringing far on board because when far joined it was just a single newsletter with like three employees so now i mean he's gone out in bi said look like ax axiom down in the states is aggressively expanding their local and i think that's because it's gonna work and it can be profitable let's go do the exact same thing in canada and so you're gonna hope well how's this story gonna end do you think i don't know i mean i think that if it's true in victoria it's probably true in a lot of other places the interesting thing is trying to figure out like you know what topics people really wanna hear and are they really variable city by city right so for example like we expanded into lang which is a suburb suburb here and it's more working class and so it's figuring out okay you know what do those people wanna hear versus somebody who lives you know in in victoria or in vancouver do they want different topics like you know just that kind of stuff i think is gonna be really interesting to figure out and what's your membership what your subscription gonna be we haven't announced it yet but we're kind of thinking about like somewhere in between a hundred and two hundred dollars a year getting local discounts access to events maybe like a member only newsletter and extra content and stuff one of the things i really wanna do is start hosting events in person because like as you know it's one thing to see a number of like oh the hustle has a million million subscribers but when you meet up with people in person it's crazy so i'm really excited like fill a room with all the subscribers and just see what that feels like yeah me and connor in miami we just posted about it got like three hundred people signed up crazy so yeah bob this is amazing i can't believe you didn't ask it be part of this dude so frustrating maybe maybe i will i i'm i have i all just my own money at this point so if i decide i gotta go big i'll definitely hit you up i'm very interested as you you gotta make me an adviser i think this is gonna be sick alright you wanna talk about another idea so you let we'll talk about the paper thing in a second what's this which one do you wanna move to let's do the pregnancy stuff okay i think this cool well you want do this yeah go this is like a business in a box this is one of those things that i would do if i had time but i don't i think it's a really good idea so people love to spend money other their kids making their kids better smarter feeling like good parents and stuff there's all sorts of like you know baby mo are you know different health things people do for their kids but nobody really thinks about health during pregnancy and i think this is something that's really important that's totally overlooked my son was born early he born like three weeks early and low birth weight and he's fine like he we haven't had any health issues or anything but any parent who's gone through that nose it's absolutely terrifying and i started researching at a ton and i realized that there's all sorts of things that you can proactively do to ensure that you have a really healthy a really healthy pregnancy but then also to like basically optimize your kid so if you think about it your kid is growing a brain and a body they get to do that once right like this is the building this is the foundation of your kid and so i started researching all this stuff i talked to a really smart friend my friend doctor on patrick and basically i realized there's like all these studies that show that kids and mothers who have like fish and dha supplements b vitamins make sure they're not an anemic and stuff it minimizes any risk of pregnancy and it also maximizes iq and general flourishing adhd all this other stuff so there's this huge in marketing the most important thing is to have a hook and the hook can be fear right how do you avoid this terrible outcome and one of the problems with doctors is when you talk to a doctor they just don't wanna scare your wife during pregnancy and so they just say take vitamin d or do this thing they don't explain why and so i think explaining to others here's why you wanna do this here's all the potential bad things you can avoid and hey you can make your kid smarter and better in the process there's a huge opportunity to basically do like roman or him but for maternal health so you do blood work supplements that get delivered on a schedule and it's about building like a super baby and you said you you'd wanna invest your own money and this that's what you said here yeah i i would love if anyone wants to do this i a hundred percent invest so please email me but this is one of those things where like every three months i'm like why the hell hasn't anyone done this yet well there's a but there's a reason why you shouldn't invest in this which you've written here yeah i think it's a this is a great business for someone who's never done a business before because it's a good like launch pad business it's something that can make like you could be big but there's no competitive at barrier right so you're gonna go you're gonna do this that a bunch of people are gonna copy you and you can probably make a good living on this i don't think it has like a moat necessarily except for maybe like a brand that mother's share or something but i think there's something here have you heard of the there's this guy named i forget his name joel maybe joel on writing is his blog and he says there's ben and jerry's businesses and then there's ben and jerry's versus amazon is what he says he goes with ben and jerry it's like a unique interesting brand and a person can go to ice stream five days a week and try all types of different stuff and everyone can survive and the only thing that separates ben and jerry is just that it's slightly different but there's enough for everyone to succeed like you know there's a there's enough space we can all win and you can grow it pretty slowly four hundred years and it could probably last for a hundred years and probably won't go away very easily but then there's like an amazon which is you can really only you really are only gonna subscribe to one amazon prime and once you give your credit card to amazon save it you're probably just gonna continue to use that and so with the ben and jerry's business it's okay to go slow it's no big deal you don't have to raise a lot of money you can grow slower so long as you're willing to do it for twenty thirty years is it can get it you gotta get huge really fast because everyone can copy you it's kinda like roam in him there's a reason why like there was like five right away because someone saw and like oh great copy and you could spend the up in three weeks but him the only mo here size it's literally a form if you think about what him is the original website was a well designed site they put some like they find some stock images that are hip of like pill bottles they add their logo onto to it so it looks like it's a special thing and then they literally have like a form you fill out and then a doctor just goes yeah rubber stamp okay i'll do it i'll send the prescription or whatever and they've gotten way more sophisticated but at the end of the day there's no lock in other than the fact that i happen to subscribe with them and so other people would just go out and you end up basically competing into whatever the cost of the ads is if it costs two bucks to convert someone then you can make five cents per right and that's what happens with these businesses but i think for a year or two you could probably make a lot of money we first started this i said we should break this up into two i actually think we should break it up and we should keep it as one and because you have you have to go at the at ten minutes passed right yeah something around real about about one fifteenth so you have this thing called what is enough money i want hundred percent wanna talk about that so let's talk about one more biz one one more idea and then we can come back you andrea has a huge list of ideas we'll save these and and do it for the next one but what which other idea do wanna go to yeah this one's really this is a really weird story but so my whole life i could never burp so my brother were like work in my face and i'd be like what the hell how do do that i just couldn't it was really really bizarre and you know i'd drink like pop and i'd feel bloated and crappy and i couldn't burp but it wasn't a big deal i didn't think much of it and and then when i was about twenty three or twenty four i started getting this weird acid reflux and i just get this shitty feeling of pressure and then acid reflux and it started happening day after day after day and it started driving me absolutely crazy and so about seven or eight years ago i started researching it and i knew nothing about health and knew nothing about diet and i just basically had to figure everything out myself and i tried everything i tried drugs supplements i had like you know stuff you know surgeries where they stick stuff down your throat and put cameras down there i had a wire put down my throat to check on my stomach acid i did ac like everything and nothing worked and finally after seven years of researching this i was on google and i i thought about this burp thing and i was like oh i wonder if it's that and i found this reddit community called no burp there's this huge community of people who also camp burp and on that community there was somebody and they said look there's this doctor in chicago and he inject botox into the cr muscle in your throat and it allows you to burp and so basically the reason why people can't burp is they have this weird muscle that's too tight so i flew down chicago about six months ago and i got this injection and now i can burp and i don't get asset reflux anymore and my life is literally like twenty five percent better i'm happier like this was actually driving is and what your first burp like was it like have you seen him the color blind people but these got down and they could see colors are wimp on it on i actually put it on twitter i put it on twitter i'll find it for you and we can share it on the show notes be like there's burp it sounded it sounds insane too right like i just like yeah it's like one of those videos where the dog gets home and hasn't seen the owner for four years like i'm just like i'm very emotional but it sounds amped up now i can burp like a normal person thirty five years of gas built up dude literally like it's i don't know i didn't know what it was like to just feel like release right i just always had pressure so so anyway so i would've spent a lot of money a lot of money need to figure this out and i tried all sorts stuff i looked at like can i go to the mayo clinic like whatever and the problem is that the medical industry is just very fractured so everyone does one very specific thing and there's no one that brings it all together and most gps you know they are or primary physicians they can help you but they're not gonna go deep on an issue and really spend time on this and so i think there's an interesting business opportunity i don't know how big it is but this idea of a medical advocate this is basically a project manager for your problem so you'd say like i have diabetes or i have a rare condition or i have this symptom and they're gonna go to every doctor's appointment they're gonna get you into the best specialist they're gonna push the doctors to do testing they're gonna look at all the outcomes all the data read all the papers and i think this is the sort of thing that wealthy people specifically would pay a lot of money and especially if you could make an outcome based where you say if i cure this for you what's it worth you i think this could be actually a pretty big business so two things the first have you heard of a concierge doctor yes so i have a basically i pay of and and i have it because someone like got it for me when i was like really ill the billionaire lady it was a crazy story that i'll tell another time but basically i have this doctor named doctor h and i just text him i go hey doctor h mike achilles really hurts me can you schedule an mri for me or something like that and he's like yeah i in an mri would be good i'll hook it up so they you know and i pay annual fee for twenty five thousand dollars and would that not be this well it i think that's very i have that as well but i think it's very driven by whatever you want right so you text them you say you want an mri but if you say hey my back is hurting the question is is he gonna be able to have time to spend four hours a day researching your back specifically and figure that out for you is he gonna have time to go to all the doctor's appointments and interact with all the specialists and negotiate with them and everything that's what i'm looking for is like i'm gonna be in the room to solve problems as i think a lot of people have like a a loved one gets cancer and they're like well how do i navigate this like what's the optimal treatment what am i missing am i talking to the wrong doctor like what advice is bad etcetera kinda like a health a health manager totally and it's specifically around an an issue or like you could do it around specific issues i think it's i think it's kind of like a a weird niche i recently heard about a business where all they did was negotiate bills for hospitals and it was a like a a very small number of people and this business made a absolute killing and that kinda turned me on to these niche medical areas did you look to the there's a thing called a mayo clinic executive what's it called a mayo clinic executive i i figured exactly what it's called but have you seen this where you pay executive health program you pay ten thousand dollars and you go to a mayo clinic and they have like five of them or six of them and you basically spend two days i think or three days and they look at everything on your body and try to diagnose anything i mean have you seen this yeah i looked at doing that and what you why i didn't you well i started looking into it and what i realized is that they were just gonna recommend the same thing that i already looked at right when i talked to i think i talked to a doctor and you said oh yeah you're probably gonna have to have this special surgery which is like they they do like a surgery on your throat to close it off from acid and i'm like holy crap think got it and do that that has like a million knock on effects and all sorts of issues why wouldn't this work well i think the hard part would be is it insured maybe not so you're paying out of pocket how many people really want this is this just something like some rich people want or is this a real opportunity and then also like just how much can you charge for it i think it could be a great business for one person it could be a great business for ten people maybe it can scale i don't know i like personally i like the pregnancy health one more but i think the other one is more just something that's needed especially around if you specialized in like cancer or something so it's like when your dad gets diagnosed with cancer there's like a clear person to talk to who's like an adviser who's in impartial can we i'm just going through this i think it's interesting i think that this is it's i sometimes i'm partial these like rich people ideas aren't you like i'm like i'm like it's cool but i don't know if i wanna do that i think it's it's one of those things that is probably a business but it goes back to like we have a warp view of it it good and and you know we'll talk about the enough money stuff later but i think the interesting thing that seems to happen the theme i see with people who make good amounts of money and become comfortable is they just make themselves uncomfortable again by ob over all the stuff that can go wrong like getting you know health issues car accidents you know how can how can it all get taken away exactly let's talk about that so you wrote something here that immediately caught my eye and it's something that i i've been reading over and over again is called what is enough money and we you and i talked about this recently basically i told you the goal when i started the hustle was by around thirty i wanted to make enough money that right upfront like my nut would very passively spit off fifty thousand dollars a month in per per perpetuity so fifty k or the equivalent with they including inflation every single month forever and to do that you need like you want like between two to three percent of your portfolio to be able to do that so what's i don't know what whatever that do that math that that's that minimum but that was my goal and yeah i mean i i i i did it and do you start talking to me about what is enough money so what what were you gonna say here yeah i mean i i love you came back to me and you just said like to me enough money is like twenty five to fifty k a month in perpetuity with very low i i said fifty and the reason i said fifty is i spend way less than that but i want to be incredibly conservative yeah so you've go a vacation and be crazy and not worry about it yeah or i think that's the right that's the right way to i think about it i think the problem is a lot of people go i wanna be a billionaire or whatever and it's like what do you really want it's like well i really just wanna be able to like do whatever i want every month and let's be honest fifty k a month even twenty five k a month is enough to do whatever you want for the rest of your life and so people often will ask me like oh what do you know what do you aspire to be or who do you admire most and i think like money is like i i used the like the athlete thing the example before of like olympic athletes i think like billionaires are like olympic athletes but let's be real olympic athletes many of them have no personal life because all they do is train and they destroy their bodies by the time they're forty five right and so the people i actually really admire i admire those sorry i admire i'm impressed by those people i love their dedication i love that they do that but i don't know if i personally want to work that hard or become an olympia indian i think what i aspire to be is to be the casual tennis player who is always challenging themselves loves playing plays with friends all that kind of stuff and so if you think about it from that perspective the people i'm jealous of the people who have ten to twenty five million dollars in a conservative passive investment they've paid off their house and they're just set and they have a great balanced lifestyle i i love that kind of stuff and i don't know if i'm i think i'm too much of a man i think like i'm too anxious and i always want to do more and more and more i have a lot of fun with that but so it's hard for me to stop but those are the people that i'm jealous of there's a lot to unpack there first of all if you're jealous why don't you do that that's a good question i just don't think my personality is is really suited for that right i i always i always want as soon as i have like freedom i fill myself up again right and i'm trying to crack that right now of like what's driving that is that fear is it anxiety is it just that i love all this i don't know i mean it's easy i got the same thing it's in security like you wanna it's all it's rooted in a fear of am i good enough to do it like i wanna come and it's ego as well i think it's it's i have to prove that i'm better than bill ackerman or whoever it is like you're at this i don't i don't have that no i don't i don't feel that what i feel is like it's more it's more fun new things and what i've realized about covid is like i hated working this year because all it was was the work what i actually love is just like meeting new people right it's like it's just an excuse to like meet new people and solve fun problems i know that sounds very k by but for me is very true without i all this work and all this more stuff is meaningless to me if i'm not like hanging out with cool interesting people and learning new things and making new friends that's all i care about and so like starting the news business even like that was an opportunity for me to be like oh who are journalists i get to you know get to know journalists who live in this whole other world outside of business where they care about totally different things and i can like nerd out on this new topic and make a whole group of new friends what would happen if you just turned off your phone or change your phone number and not opened your computer ever again and never read your email or for like a year what do you think would happen if you did that and you came back to tiny i think i'd be fine right we just did this a tiny we changed we don't get monthly reports anywhere from the ceos so like there's businesses where i don't i haven't even talked to the ceo for like three or four months i don't know even know what their numbers are and what we've realized is that when you leave people alone and trust them usually good things happen and the more involved we get the worse the businesses do you have a cool quote here most successful people are just walking anxiety disorders harness for productivity i completely agree i think there's this i i have some us telling about this book i'm gonna read but basically they said something like a lot of great leaders who we look up to have horrible personality disorders you know or portable flaws so for example jfk was was addicted to a pain killer because he was he had a lot of issues and he was addicted to drugs abe lincoln he tried to kill himself a couple times and he was very suicidal and he had horrible depression say theodore theodore roosevelt horrible depression his wife and his newborn daughter died on the same day he had a he he was very sad and but these types of personalities are really good during wartime they're good because it gives them they're like a dog that has to chase a car and they feel comfortable in that in that mode and when i see you saying that you have to do the next thing and also that successful people are walking anxiety disorder i agree with you i think that that is true but then i also say to myself then why would i feel bad about chasing things all the time like why would i say like well the most successful people are just have ten to twenty years sitting and and i just feel guilty about wanting to do shit all the time i'm like well because i'm just a a guy and i'm built to go and do this shit because of how my brain is built and that is just who i am and i will not feel guilty for that yeah you're like a golden retriever and you like to chase balls and nothing is gonna change that in your brain unless maybe you take like some drug or something like that yeah so it's like i don't think it's i don't know if it's bad but it's more like the you know i envy the people who could slow down but i don't necessarily know that i want that don't know if i could deal with that right like i love my ideal day is actually like meeting a whole bunch of people and looking at a bunch problems and looking at a bunch of different businesses as well as family and friends and exercise but if you take away the work part i don't really do very well i kinda need three four hours of work every single day and so i think there's just this natural yin and yang of like you know i over get overwhelmed and then i scale down and then i have white space and then i immediately scale back up because i'm like oh i have white space i can do more stuff what about this photo with business so that i i was gonna talk about like someone who i really admire and this is just this is genius so i met this guy probably five or six years ago really interesting local serial entrepreneur and he has this business that's a passport photo booth right and in victoria there's a passport office it's in the mall there's only one of them he has the passport photo office right outside or sorry the passport photo place right outside the canadian passport thing so as people walk in and they go oh shit i need a passport photo he's got the booth right there right and i was just like that is a freaking amazing business it spits out like i don't know how much but you know a good life for him and it just creates this base for him and i was like that's the ultimate and this guy he has like three or four businesses but he also just like mountain bikes and serves all the time and seems to like do it once right guy this guy and he's always giving me shit being like dude come surfing with me like why aren't you out enjoying life and stuff and really really interesting guy but it's just an example of like the kind of people who i'm like oh you've like you've hacked it you've figured it out you've got enough and you're always doing enough interesting stuff that you're active but you also find time to do like whatever the hell you want for three four hours a day so why do you have a personal scorecard but what is this so chris and i like i would say covid like hit us super hard over the winter we were so busy we took that company public like it was just an exhausting year and we were like we need a personal scorecard to do we try and do this like once a month or so where we just sit down and ask ourselves these questions and if enough of them are negative then we'll be like okay we gotta change something so some of them are like you know when you're with your kids are you present are you taking your kids out for one once at least twice a month have you had any calls in the last week that you would just not wanna do have you had more than two hours of calendar scheduled time per day are you reading interesting books you proud of your body you know just like basic stuff that encompasses your life and it's been really really interesting and useful to just force yourself to ask those questions because so often the answers is or no looking at this so whenever you come on you send me this huge document this document i contributed a little bit to it but a lot of it's yours it's two thousand words did you write this what the hell are you serious it's eighteen it's eighteen or nineteen jesus that's crazy did you write this yeah yeah i i didn't write the the research on the bill of the week but i i wrote the rest that's crazy yeah so we're gonna save this and we're gonna have to come back and talk about it at all because we also asked people on twitter so we got a bunch of questions about meta lab building a medal lab in india of course we got tons of newsletter questions we got tons of tax questions which is kind of an interesting one and then of course we get the same question of like what would you do if you started now we'll we'll actually answer them next time so hopefully we can record on tuesday i don't know if you're available but when your your episodes are some of the most popular this month we're gonna cost six hundred thousand downloads and you're a big part of that thank you this is fun i always love having you here because i feel like when we talk i'm more of a fan that a c host do you i just love coming on because i it's not like you guys have such a unique format and it's so awesome to see you guys actually like getting huge right like i feel like i i remember listening to you guys like two years ago and you're were like my only podcast subscription basically so it's awesome to see you getting so big it's wicked yeah last week we were ranked fourteen the goal by the end of the year was top ten i think that we're we're cracking the code i think there's a world where when you think of like business podcast it'll be like of course like jo because he's like up there it'll be tim ferris because he's been the best for a while and then there's guy ra he's been the best for a while but i think there's a world we're gonna be up there in a very short amount of time and i'm excited for that and you're part of it so like as we as our podcast gets bigger because you're the most popular guest or are you awesome no i i love doing these so fun thank you did well let's do yeah next week let's do an ama or whatever and yeah we'll do get sean on and do do a full on we're gonna i'm gonna ask him his babies just now old enough where maybe he's he's he isn't his wife back yeah he's getting his life back so we're gonna do it sean and i are in austin on june third and then miami june fourth and then you wanna come and travel and do some shit with that so i just the the canadian border i've got a mandatory fourteen day quarantine yeah but they're gonna reopen soon so once it's reopened i'd love to do a live great we already have it all lined up and daddy hubspot we'll we'll foot the bill and and we're gonna go open bar alright thank you andrew this is awesome i feel like i could rule to word i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on a road less travel never looking back on