#171 - How to Generate Millions from Paid Events (Bootstrapped)

when i i first hosted my i hosted my first event in june and the event happened alright decided to do it around june first and the event went placed seven weeks later in august and when i started i had close to nothing i had a two hundred person email list so there wasn't like this oh it's easy for you you had the hustle no no it didn't exist yeah there was no website there was just a domain name called puzzle cut and i hosted this event in the first six weeks it made about sixty thousand dollars in revenue and fifty ish thousand dollars in profit and a lot of people were surprised by that it but it wasn't that hard the second event you can see here explain so how how did you sell the sixty thousand dollars of tickets during that process yeah i feel like i could rule where i know i could be what i want to put at all in in like a days off on a less travel never looking back today sean let's actually jump right you i think wanna do this billy of the week right away yeah and then i have a thing on an events do you wanna do events if you wanna save that what do you wanna do i wanna do that so i wanna do this billy of the week i wanna hear your stuff on paid events and then i have two ideas one is a cool idea i i've seen and then the other is a brainstorm of a of a potential idea so i wanna do all those things so let's start with let's start with the billy of the week this one is very interesting have you ever heard of this guy before don't google i wanna tell you the story so don't google this guy let me tell you i'm just i i googled them i'm just thinking oh wow okay yeah young guy young guy twenty nine years old i his name is wow sam ban free i think it's the way you say his name and when you if you heard him talk like i actually want you to let's listen to a youtube video for a second because he sounds like you know an absolute d and i loved it i was like oh this guy sounds like he would be a self made billionaire by the age of twenty nine because he sounds like a genius she sounds like a tech genius have you brought this person up to me before no i just discovered a about two days ago okay so what's this guy's story so this guy would you know i'll just come sam for short but so this guy sam he's a he he he's a young guy he's very smart he takes a job as kinda like a hedge fund trader or something like that it's group called james street i guess and i don't know i forget these details they don't really matter guys got a job in finance and he leaves and he starts something called alameda research and it's called alameda research because he needed it to sound as a legit as possible and not like what it actually was so what was it so what this guy did was he was into crypto and there was this known thing in crypto where as crypto was getting popular this is around twenty seventeen when the first big run up happened in bitcoin went you know from three thousand dollars to twenty thousand dollars and it crashed later but during that time twenty sixteen twenty seventy twenty eighteen bitcoin was emerging and there was this as any new thing there's these like kind of it's like the wild wild west a little bit and so there was this thing where in the us the price of bitcoin lewis let's say ten thousand dollars a bitcoin and in other countries where the exchanges weren't built or the come the country had some regulations or whatever there was like a premium for bitcoin there was more demand than there was bitcoin available to buy in those countries because you need like let's say like in korea there was a famous thing called the kimchi the kimchi premium and the kimchi premium was that in korea there wasn't kimchi like the like the food like the the food so this is known as the kimchi premium and basically it was like whatever bitcoin was selling for here let's say it was ten thousand dollars and korea it was trading for fifteen thousand dollars because it was that big it was fifty percent premium and it it fluctuate obviously and i think thirty percent was kinda like the average of the kimchi premium over time so everybody wanted this so everybody you know any smart person saw oh wow there's an arbitrage what if i just buy it in the us for ten grand and immediately sell it in korea for fifteen grand or for thirteen you thirteen grand and so you had this like ability to flip it and so a whole bunch of people trying to do this but there was all these problems right like well the reason you know the reason wasn't easy the reason there was this premium because it was hard to buy bitcoin in korea so one idea was you buy it in the us off a us exchange you go to korea and you sell it but you're gonna sell it for in the korean you know juan which is like the local currency but now you need to like for the for the arbitrage to continue you have to convert the korean juan back to dollars to go buy more go buy more bitcoin in the us the problem was you can't convert the korean won back to dollars easily because the government was very like tit regulations you couldn't funnel large amounts of money from the korean won back to dollars very very easily so whole bunch of people were trying to get this like pinata of money and they couldn't crack it and what this guy did was he was like okay fuck the kimchi premium he went for the japan premium which was far less appealing it was only ten percent but he's like still if i can if i could trade a us bitcoin for ten percent more in japan every day i'm making ten percent compounding daily and so he went through this like odyssey when for like a year all he's doing is setting up this trade so he like for actually by the way first when he was trying to figure out could i capture the kimchi premium he was like doing calculations like if i filled up if i chartered a private plane and i filled it up with a hundred people and i flew you know they buy a bitcoin in the us i flew them all to korea and then they they you know sell it there and then i could each one of them could convert some amount of that money and i could fly them back and every day i could fly this plane back and forth between us and like could i make it work and he was like i don't think it works so wait so you had to be there physically it's not the you had to be there physically you have to do all like all legs of the transaction so you have to be able to buy in korea or or like or sell your bitcoin in korea at the premium but now you have korean won now you need to convert that to dollars and so how do you do that you need to convert it there but there's caps they won't let you convert it because the way you described it is like look he's like what i wanted to do essentially was to be you know selling five million dollars of bitcoin for the local currency and converting five million dollars of local currency back to us dollars every day is like if you if you just go to like go to korea go to japan go to wherever and you say hey i'd like to it's like a one way flow of money i have five million dollars of your local currency i'd like to convert it to dollars and exit the country and they're like okay but where are you getting all this money and why are you doing such a large amounts i'm like what is this yeah he's like you know if you if you go to bank school one zero one that's like money laundering that's what money laundering looks like that that that is what money laundering is exactly what money laundering looks like so he's like even though i'm not money laundering i'm buying and selling it good that's differently priced in different regions to them on the ground to the bank on the ground where i need to do these conversions it's shady it's too shady they won't let me do it so he spends i a year of his life where he's like goes to japan now he's gotta find you gotta do each each one of these was hard so anyways the the net end of this story is this guy's arbitrage twenty five million dollars a day of of this strength he's making a ten percent compounding you know margin every single day and this guy you know in the three years basically he's become a self pay billionaire earnings he's worth ten billion dollars now which is a combination of the money he made from the arbitrage trade as well as he then created his own exchange and like you so he has a trading company that's you know it has made hundreds of millions of dollars on this arbitrage and then he built he used that to create an exchange which is worth billions of dollars on paper so anyways this guy's worth ten billion dollars he it and his because the currency is called f t right that's his exchange his exchange called the f sorry sorry exchange and that is is that basically an all alternative to basically a more higher end it's quite a more sophisticated coinbase base where you can do like derivative trades option trades on all different types of internationally and that's like a and that's like a proper company it's a proper company with like so research made hundreds of millions of dollars in the span of a few months just doing this one trade over and over again every day so i'm gonna just describe a couple of things but he got on people's radar because he was the biggest donor to joe biden this year in the campaign he wrote a he wrote like a five million dollar check at the last hour like at the eleventh hour that let joe do like you know it was part of this like you know last minute blitz they did on tv ads in all the swing states because this and this kind of interesting this guy like very his whole business philosophy is this thing called effective alt which is basically like go be a greedy capital go try to make as much money as you can and your goal is to give at least half of it away while you're doing it so he's got like it's not like a philanthropist giving away one percent of his money or or ten percent of his money as a tie his goal is giving away like fifty percent of his liquid liquid like net worth you know like that he makes every year that's is like kind of like his mindset where did he get the money to start this so he started it with a very small amount of money and it just compounded very quickly because he's basically like getting ten percent extra every day so i i don't know exactly where he got the initial seed capital or how big it was he hasn't specified but he he did say at the mac they were doing twenty five million a day on the trade which basically like a a two point five million dollar like you know like profit per day that they were making on the trade and so he describes that okay so what he's like basically if you wanna do this you have to like break it down into small chunks he's like okay so i need on one side i need to be able to go buy a shit in a bitcoin in the us so how do i get exchange in the us it's gonna give me really high limits even though i'm with this do kid who's got no track record and i have no like collateral or brand name and so he's like finds a way to solve that problem of like being able to buy twenty five million dollars of bitcoin in the us then he had like go to japan and he had to be able to sell a huge amount of bitcoin there then he had to be able to convert it from the japanese yen or whatever to us dollars and he had to do that all in the same day and wire transfer it all back to the us to buy it again the next day to buy the full max amount to get the next time so we just kind of money every day and so he described like they would just the way that the the timing worked it was always in the last hour of the banking day that he would be trying to get all the wire transfers done to get the money back to the us so that they can execute tomorrow's horse trade and any day that they couldn't what does sound like you said he sounds great like i'm looking at picture my goodness it sounds extremely genuine humble high pitched voice kinda like just an nerdy guy who was like he accounted for about ten percent of all the bitcoin training himself his alameda research during that time period i i believe which is just like it's insane because he was moving so much money i love these people i love i love freaks this guy is a freak i literally set up you know his desk is him with six monitors hanging above his head his neck is like cramped because he just needs to constantly monitor the spot price in the us what's the price in japan what's the conversion of yen dollars what's the conversion of dollar to you and is and he's just constant and at any anytime anything broke it was just costing him tons of money and he had always had to make sure nobody's gonna like stop his tray to stop the bottleneck and then he stuck with all this like japanese yen and can't move it or it gets seized by the government and so he was like the main banks wouldn't work with him so that's why he picked out alameda me to research as a name to like be more legit he hired like this like kinda like sophisticated guy like who spoke the local language to be able to go talk to bankers and be like hey here's what we're doing he also like went to like these rural banks in japan not the main ones in the city he's like okay these rural banks will take my business because they're like more open to what i'm doing than like the citi banks that are like you know have a have a tighter filter on what i'm doing so anyways i just thought it was super interesting to like he identified one arbitrage like money bowl style and i'm dedicated like a year or eighteen months in his life to just hammering this one arbitrage and ended up making hundreds of millions of dollars and par that into becoming you know his his paper network worth is ten billion dollars and he did that i think four years total of how he built ten billion because the because the exchange a combination of the the research count the the the trading company plus the exchange ten billion is what he what he estimates is his network to be done i love people like this i i mean that's astounding there's very he's that's one of a kind but i love people and i try to do this with the hustle with email addresses with an email list but that's peanuts compared to this and what's some other people do but basically who take a small tiny kinda like silly thing and just amp it up on steroids so i love that i think that is the coolest thing i love people who think like that i think it's so fascinating i'd have to think some more examples of that but you totally what i mean absolutely i've i've met this before with like people who make a poker bot and it's like what are you doing it's like every day there's tweaking this little bot that's running twenty four seven at the at the one and two cent tables of full tilt poker and they have this like small edge like this like fifteen percent edge and then there there's like tweaking the system and it and what what it reminds me of is what happens a lot of times is people will go buy information they'll go say oh i'm pay i pay like my my uncle does this he was paying nineteen dollars a month for like this guy's is like stock tips i had to like sit my uncle down and be like look like if these are amazing stock tips do you really think this guy's is gonna give it you for nineteen dollars like no like you know if this guy really had an edge in the market he would not need to make money educating you he would be pounding his advantage right i'm trying to make as much money he's hand as long as that window exists and so like oh i have another example of this this guy on twitter called har bob do you follow him no pretty fascinating guy to follow so this guy is a high stakes gambler he's a professional gambler which usually is oxy moron like is there's no such thing as a professional gambler but he he was a professional sports better and what he realized was back in i think twenty six i forgot was twenty thirteen twenty twenty twelve i don't remember what it was it's like maybe it was even longer than i think it might have been like fifteen years ago now he realized that in vegas the books were like they were so sports books it's kinda like hard to beat the house the book are always like spot on and there's one type of bet called the you know over under it's basically like in basketball it's like what's the total score gonna is it gonna be if you add up the total of both teams is it two hundred more and then you bet if it's gonna be over under that and over under is really really accurate but what he's noticed was that he noticed two things one was the book did not take into account that actually in the first half like in the basketball game the second half the score is usually higher than the first half because at the end of the game the team that's losing will start foul because they're like look we have to try to get back in his game so i'll value you to save that the clock stops you get too free there and then i'll come back try to hit the three and so that's usually the end game for most most teams like if you're down you file the other team bit clock stops they score while the clock has stopped and then i tried to shoot threes to get back in the game and i'm pretty desperate so what he noticed was that the total over under if you just divided it by half that's what they would just fifty percent that's what they were making as the first half over under and very few people bet the first half over under because it's not that fun of a bet like who cares what the halftime time score is gonna be if you're gonna bet the score you just bet the end of the game score so he realized it was a small edge where they thought they were taking the full score and dividing my half and making that the line he's like oh my god this is almost always gonna be under and he specifically noticed that these three teams their coaches would like do that foul strategy way more in the second half so he's like okay there's these teams that these coaches do this strategy more and the first half is like my arbitrage and he doesn't say shit to anybody he just starts hiring people to go to the books all the difference what's this person's say name this guy har bob and i'm kind of like har i'm kind of para spell that it's h a r a l a b b herrera bob and so and now he works for mark he works for the dallas mavericks i think he works for mark cuban because he like wow he got a big personality on twitter because he was his sports better and like the way he made all of his money was like he had identified over these like ten years of being a sports better he found like three different edges one was he just like went super hard on the shaq and kobe lakers the second was this first half like first half over under bet that was just mis priced and he just took that mis pricing and he just went all in on this mis pricing wow the nice crazy anytime a sports book would limit him he would then like pay a guy but hey go walk up and bet twenty five thousand dollars at this game please and then they like do that he had like people betting at all the sports books in all the different casinos at the same time so that he could be betting the type of money he wanted to bet to maximize his advantage while this arbitrage existed and so anyways i love people who find these arbitrage and then like the lengths that they have to go through to maximize it it's like the movie twenty one where they're counting cards in vegas and they're like strapping cash to their body walking through this airport because they like need to go like pounce on you used to have this guy who worked for you named steve or steve and i think he and then he so basically what if i remember correctly what he did was he would create these i don't know if he created a block but like so he would buy a really small twitter handle that was called like today in history and it would just tweet like a picture of what happened fifty years ago you know jfk was shot then he would buy like a cool car twitter one where it was like here's all interesting cars and then like i can't believe it it can fly which is like weird flying devices that when you look at them they look looks silly and he eventually bought i believe hundreds of them to the point of where he a business so he would did one of you did two things that were interesting the store you said was he goes basically i control the internet let me show you how at the end of the talk i'm going to have x trend yeah like i'm gonna have this thing word from the audience he'd back say a word and people are like gobble goo there cool while we're talking in thirty minutes we're just set clock here we're gonna check twitter in thirty minutes and then sure enough gobble goo would be trending on twitter the number one trend in all of europe because his young would all start talking about gobble gu in meme format and it would just like start to go viral basically and nobody even knew and he he par this into getting sponsorships and now i don't know if you know him anymore i don't know him at all yeah but i i i read about him and i and this company went public it went public in a really shady way so i don't know if i believe everything there there something about it i don't have too much other than it's just a roll up of a bunch of bunch of media companies something was weird about it but basically i think it went public in england for like two or three hundred million dollars market cap and so it turned him into quite wealthy quite wealthy by the way he person i think you just released a book called what is it happy sexy million sixty millionaire yeah so go by steve's book yeah so anyway pretty principal he found mis priced assets so i remember the first one that he discovered was one that was like shit freshman say or is like like but you know whatever the the the uk sla for that is is basically like a me a parody account that tweeted out funny things that freshman say on a college campus and what he found the reason it was mis price was most of these accounts were made by accident by somebody who was eighteen years old and sixteen years old and they were bored at home and they just made a you know like harry potter you know harry potter jokes twitter account and it gets to a million followers and they don't know what to do with it and then they kinda like they get paid like seventy five bucks on v to like shout out some app or like they get paid like two hundred dollars to like say a protein powder or was like or they would make a blog selling you know like protein powder and they would just like try to funnel some traffic that but it didn't like make sense it wasn't very sophisticated he needed he needed promotion for his business so he was working with these guys then he realized screw my business this is just a really powerful promotional engine we used him early on when he was you we brought him on and he used part of my team we used him and we became the number one app in the uk number one app in europe because we used his like network to like talk about our app and what he had the insight was was that you don't say like our app was be at the time so he it wasn't go download be it's a great app no he's like that shit doesn't work i was like well we need that and we need the link in there so we can track how many clicks he gets he's like no that's not how people talking the internet i was like okay so tell me what do you mean he's like you gotta think like what you wanna do is we have so many count that we want somebody when they scroll on twitter they see bi mentioned like seven times and that they don't even nobody's explaining nobody's selling it to them they just realized why everyone saying this thing be but what is that and then they go google or they go search for it and then they actually download on the app because they think this is what's hot this is what people are talking about he's like still we'll what we'll do is we'll make content that's like you know my mom when she sees me check bib for the fiftieth of time today and it's a meme of the mom throwing your phone out the window and it's like so the the implied meaning is that be is this addictive app that you keep checking that your parents hate that you keep checking well what is that app why would it why would this person check that app fifty times i even have that app never heard of it right and so that was the genius of his marketing like tactics at that time and then he had the like audience to back it up so they got spotify and microsoft and all these companies to pay them tons of money because anytime they needed to spread the word about a new thing that they were doing this was the most effective way to reach a bunch of people a bunch of young people and so then he par that he started launching his own consumer brands so if they have a bunch of food accounts they were launch like a food subscription product or they had a bunch of fitness accounts they would launch like a women's athletic wear you know like company it didn't all work but man like crazy ass like business that came you know if you if you wanna go research it it's called social starts right social chain social chain a steve what's his part bartlett yeah you should follow him on twitter he's a great follow now he tweets out just like i like inspirational shit all the time like motivational stuff yeah he's like a mini gary v although he's like a better to be honest with you probably a get this probably like five years and he's gonna be much bigger than what gary v is today i think if he sticks with it but yeah and there's some articles that are cool if you go search like the twenty one year olds that control the internet i think there's like a vice article like twenty two year old roll buzzfeed buzzfeed yeah the buzzfeed advice like crazy articles about them i mean at one point they had twenty five employees that were all under the age of twenty two years old and they were all just managing these media accounts and they were just making tons of money and they like yeah i was insane they built like an office with like a play pan inside and you know no it's a good article so do you wanna talk okay so i was doing research i bra you showed me this and and i feel that people did basically our most watched recent video is something i you you've you've kicked ass on instagram i think i've got the youtube prize so far but because our most watched article or most watched video is on paid communities i think the title is how to make twenty million dollars a year doing a paid community something like that because we talked about a company that does that and now we'll make this title like how to make like a million dollars or how to make a hundred thousand dollars a year doing a paid event and pray you asked me to talk about it so i came with a few bullet points so do you wanna talk about paid events i want to because this is how the hustle started so this is like your roots and also we're starting to plan hustle kind again and i have a feeling now more than ever is the time to plan a paid event in person paid event because i think you can you can do really well because there's gonna be very little competition and people are really eager to go we talked about it in the past about events but so sean if you go to the my the million dollar brainstorm document you'll see i'm highlighting my name i actually listed all oh you're on your phone so it might be a little challenging but i've actually listed a whole bunch of our profit and loss statements from our events if you hit metrics all time you can actually see are all time metrics although actually this only goes to two thousand eighteen so it's not all time it's missing three years but you can kinda see the data you can see how much money we're making and we're making in the first cup in the first year of business about i think of i think about five hundred thousand dollars with like eighty four percent margin right in our first year business and so let's talk about event so and this won't this is a gonna this is gonna be a a ten minute segment here probably but basically the when i i first hosted my i hosted my first event in june and the event happened right decided to do it around june first and the event went placed seven weeks later in august and when i started i had close to nothing i had a two hundred person email list so there wasn't like this oh it's easy for you you had the hustle no no it didn't exist yeah there was no website there was just a domain name called puzzle cut and i hosted this event in the first six weeks it made about sixty thousand dollars in revenue and fifty ish thousand dollars in profit and a lot of people were surprised by that it but it wasn't that hard the second event you can see here explain i'm so how how did you sell the sixty thousand dollars of tickets during that process i'm gonna explain and and so i just wanna give a i'll give one more bit of context the second event i think it made about a hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand dollars in revenue and something like a hundred and fifty thousand dollars in profit and i did these events six months apart apart right i would basically host an event go travel when i needed money i would host another one and so i was starting each time with close to zero dollars so so let me explain to you guys a little bit about how i started my events and what i would what i would do if i was starting again which is basically if i starting again i would do mostly the same stuff but i think of everyone in the next if you're listening if you're willing to spend eight weeks working forty hours a week dedicated to this i think you could make at least a hundred thousand dollars profit starting probably in september because that's when i think events conferences are gonna be okay so anyway the the biggest thing that you have to do here is your email list is the most important thing so the hustle khan dot com i launched that website on june six okay and within just a few weeks we are averaging around a a thousand of two thousand unique visitors a today and the email list jumped from about two hundred people to about twenty five hundred people in in seven weeks keep in mind at the time i didn't even have a twitter so there was no twitter i mean there was but i didn't use it and so what i would do is hu con dot com was basically a landing page where explained what the event is and then you'd enter your email and that was called the front door the side doors where all these blog posts so i would write two to three blog posts a week on each speaker i would post that on hacker news people would come to the website be at the side door only five percent of them would say this is interesting what's this website and they would click the homepage and i would collect their email there and then once i collected their email i would send them a variety of of other blog posts that had written and at the end of each blog post that i sent them it would say ps this person speaking at household count on august first in september you can get a ticket right now for ten percent off if you buy in the next twelve hours right by the way the next twelve hours that code was working all the time the no in the next twelve hours it was always the next twelve hours the countdown clock there's a simple plug that you could buy and it just starts to shows up yeah so sorry guys i'm sure everyone knows us now but i don't even shopify wasn't popular at the at that point so not everyone you had that technology but that's what we did pretty easy pretty basic and in doing that example of the blog blockbuster because i remember like i remember vividly the one you did about i cracked which you kinda did i guess i'm in info infographic i remember the one of pandora i would do but explain what you explain what you did and like also these worst speakers so you got speakers to agree legit speakers to agree before you even had an audience or anything yes which is the second thing i were gonna talk about is how to learn a speaker but the the blog post i basically would just use forbes business inside of all these places and just rent a biography in the person but i would do it in an interesting way and eventually what it happened is we would create infographics so i had john who worked there and i would say john here's the here's the bullet points of their life turned it into an infographic please and that's what we did we had infographics it could have been of a lot blog post which is what i used to do we this time we made infographics and it worked quite well and it was basically i read the book made a stick and i just copied that so i took information about their company and i made it really easy to understand so for example pandora streams this amount of music per hour which is the equivalent of x y and z they the reason why they were able to do that is they were one of the first people to launch on the iphone and then i like i just tell that story pretty simple i thought it was simple very effective now that's how we got our initial sales now the thing about sales for events it's incredibly stressful the reason it's stressful is typically twenty percent of your sales come in the first five to seven days and then twenty percent sometimes more thirty percent of your sales comes in the last like four or five days which means that dead time so you're you you want you have to kit you gotta kick ass right out of like right out of the gate so your first launch series you need to kick ass your first email launch series you need to do really well then there's a fair bit of dead time and it feels we're failing we're failing we're failing and then the last ten days or so you get a wave of sales and it all comes down to the last minute and it is incredibly nerve wracking and anything could ruin it for example a pandemic or if there was like a terrorist attack if there was bad weather as simple as bad weather you're fucked and so you've been working for seven weeks and now eventually in our case a whole year on this event and your screwed so it's very stressful but the way that you can actually make more money and this is something that i didn't learn it's to later on for the tickets you actually wanna charge higher than you than you think let's say you wanna make a hundred thousand dollars and you wanna get thousand people to pay you a hundred dollars you always charge two fifty and then you give more you give discounts in order to get to a hundred average sale price and so you wanna in my opinion you wanna be very generous with discounts you wanna charge a lot of money so it anchors it at a high at a high perceived value yeah correct and one other thing that you wanna do is you wanna run this like an e comm site so for an eco comm site you say well i wanna make a hundred grand this month therefore i need to get you know a hundred thousand people to my a hundred thousand high quality people on my website of which three percent are gonna convert i know three percent are gonna convert because i'm constantly tinkering with my landing page the average sale value is gonna be x dollars therefore this is how i do it now i just need to get people to my website that's what a lot of conference people don't do that's what you should do and it works quite well and then finally time is one of the best ways to create sales so you have to give discounts early on and at the end and you in the goal is you wanna have five three to five tiers pricing so you want to have early early bird and then early bird and then middle bird you're late okay seriously this is the last reminder late like you because if you actually look so can you actually see if you log into that doc i actually put a chart of my very first event from july twenty four you're gonna see big spikes every single one of those big spikes was a new ticket tier ending and there's a direct correlation between the amount of revenue that i made that day and the amount of like the tier ending and me sending an email blast reminding people and i would email some two or three times a day in order to remind them wow and so so you were going to hacker a news for traffic were you going anywhere else and is that where you would go today if you were doing it again well if i do tech event if i was doing a tech event yes okay i would go to hacker news and what's representative that people will say like you know you know when i post on hacker news you know i get you know no traffic i get down and i get what you know i get removed because it's like well i would say the obvious or not the obvious but maybe obvious is well your content might suck but i would say you i would actually write content or invite speakers who's who i knew i could write about that would go viral on hacker news and also if you post ten times only three times it will go viral but those three times you'll get like on hacker news like a hundred thousand views and so that it's like it hits driven business so you gotta post a ton actually for it to work and so you i remember when you were doing your event so okay go sixty thousand a hundred thousand i remember you were basically like yeah poly brings in five hundred thousand dollars of revenue and like three hundred thousand of that is profit or even more sometimes you know if i recall correctly so is that typical that it was so profitable or were you doing something different than the average event host yeah so when we would towards the third fourth event we could easily make seven hundred thousand dollars i think maybe let's just say easily five hundred thousand i forget the exact but we are making seven figures a year from events and yeah we could do fifty percent margins but the margins get smaller as we actually grew and so it was actually more profitable to do some of these smaller events but we did a few things that made us profitable the first i paid now i'll say it's against the contract but i'm gonna say i paid casey neistat stat money to speak at hustle county which is no surprise like you could just google what a speaking be is but besides that i've had a probably three four five hundred people to speak not once did i ever pay for another speaker not one time now what i think i did do a few times is i would pay for their flight but i i would pay economy i had sam yea who's the ceo of match dot com or was who's very wealthy i'd paid a three hundred and fifty dollar flight from chicago to san francisco and then maybe i think we got him a hotel but i think it was just a three fifty flight and he actually we reimbursed him for that and he would email me to remind him oh you guys still me owe me a three fifty so we didn't pay for any speakers other than casey neistat at the second i use a shit ton of volunteers because there's these kids some not necessarily kids but people who will email you once you have an event to volunteer there's a whole crew get ton of a and they wanna be around you and they do to work they do the work and it's fun for them it's a lot of fun to be part of something that we would schedule it so they could go see some talk but they didn't really even care about the talks they just wanted to be in the mix it was exciting for them and so these these people love doing that i use volunteers for everything now the third part is actually important and this might get some black but i would never work with or i would try my hardest to avoid union venues you wanna avoid union venues and ticket master venues because if you work at a a lot of venue sign contracts with ticket master or something like that and you have to work with ticket master f that sorry ticket master you guys i don't wanna work with you right and so the goal is to work with in a some place that isn't bogged down by that or bogged down by a union because there were some places where i would say alright i want my volunteers to be at the door and they would say nope you have to have our union guy do it we charge fifty dollars an hour you have to have ten yes so yeah so i remember you had the sickest venue in oakland so right outside of san francisco and it's the oakland whatever the theater what's the theater called a pair theater this thing it looks so grand i remember you were like do you guess how much this cost us i don't know if you could say but it was amazingly affordable like to to rent like ten or fifteen grand fifteen grand to bring out for the two days including all the people yeah yeah and and so you know when you're doing an event this bring in seven hundred grand like and you you needed a kind of like a notable nice big venue i thought that was i i i thought that thing would be a hundred thousand dollars right like my wedding venue cost that much you know and it was like right just for me to get married it wasn't even like a business you know i wasn't like couldn't host thousands and there's a few things which is we i preferred hosting conferences in places that typically aren't used to hosting conferences so i would do it there i did at the bra theater in san francisco which i think i don't remember exactly i'm pretty sure that was three thousand dollars a hosting an event there and i made a hundred grand right so i would do it in venue is that typically weren't meant for conferences and the reason why is if you go to a hotel or if you go to a conference center they're gonna charge you for the union stuff which is gonna add up really fast which is actually gonna be probably two the price of the hard cost of the venue and they're gonna charge you something like fifty dollars ahead for meals because you have to use their cater and that's something i would avoid like crazy instead i would find local mom and pop places and i would call them and i would say eight dollars a meal i need them prepped and ready to roll in in a box can you do that right and i will get loads of cool people to do that now the thing is is that in my opinion the food not really that important when it comes to a conference some people will debate me and say oh it's actually really important i got the cheapest shit i possibly could right and i thought it was fine enough and then that morning or that night or the night before we would go to costco and we would buy every single danish that they had and we would rent a truck and bring it there and that's how we did stuff i did it on really cheaply you don't always have to do but if you wanna make a lot of profit early on in your career it's a great way to do it you also had vendors that were like like i i make a keto breakfast bar you're like you're providing breakfast for everybody you know that's your you're paying me for marketing and you're giving away free goods to my you know oh you make vitamin water or whatever like some you're the you're the startup that wants to be the next vitamin water well here you need to be here and now that's the third that's the fourth point which is the way to make money is you get stuff for free so usually when i or when i first started i only typically had revenue from ticket sales that's actually foolish as you grow usually fifty fifty ticket and sponsors is your revenue early on i didn't charge people that much in sponsor money instead anyone that emailed me that had free stuff they would say hey we wanna sponsor you or i would email people and say hey instead of sponsoring us just bring your stuff i've got three hundred great people who are gonna be there will you come and bring six hundred bottles of vitamin and water or whatever it is and they would say absolutely i'm there and i would say awesome i'm not charging any money i just want you to provide free stuff right and people did that we got someone to pay seventeen thousand dollars for the lunches because all they did was hand out free stuff and they would just get a little bit of business from it and it would be worth it so we got tons and tons and tons of free stuff right so the point of i actually didn't provide anything and that is actually quite effective and then a a few more points a lot of times your sponsorship money is gonna come in into second year because the first year you wanna just invite the sponsors there and they're gonna see that it provides value and that you're the real deal and you'll follow through and they'll sponsor to you the second year you have to sell the second year sponsorships and sometimes the second year tickets immediately like the day of or or twenty four hours after wins you're to the moment they seeing everything wow this is great oh people are loving us next year are you in title sponsorship exactly and you wanna do that right away and the big guys like the intuit and the microsoft of the world and cycle they'll plan that cycle two years out right you can actually book your two three four sometimes it's it's that crazy and you could get hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars from them right and so if you're gonna just so don't worry about getting not getting sponsors the first time they'll get them the second time if you do well and finally a few points on speakers so for content i didn't pay anyone but what i would do is i would try to land them i would put all my work early on to get the biggest speaker i possibly could right away right for example i i convinced the founder of pandora tim west to speak and he was one of the first people i had the truth is i kinda lied about who else was coming i said all these people were all these other people were coming to speak none of them have had actually committed but once tim said yes then i went to all those other people and i told tim was coming and they again said yes and it was way easier to land bigger name speakers because i got the whale your anchor yeah so so and you've actually published your cole the emails that you sent to speakers i think on either your blog or neville blog so if people search what do they search for to go find those i've i have copy pasted of those many times already because i'm like this is great how how sam did this yeah just sam par neville colby mel yeah the the yeah and you'll see it and that stuff worked well and i don't wanna hear this nonsense if you're trying is if you're gonna start you already knew everyone no i know everyone because i hosted the of these events that's why i have a huge network not because i had them before i started this event yeah and so so i think so i i think what you just said is like a mountain of gold i think people would pay thousands of dollars to hear that how do you do this you know as a consultant or a course or something like that i think you you you gave them the goods for free on this pod which i think is is amazing and that's what we're all about the other thing i would say is i think there's it's not just about making money doing this the way i look at this if i'm i'm twenty two years old and i don't wanna have like the traditional career this is how you bring luck to yourself you go host the party you go host the host the event that's how sam built his world class network that's how sam made a bunch of friends that's how we met you know like that's that's how these things happen you bring luck to you by going and taking a bunch of action and all you have to do is be the hustle who connects a bunch of dots and doing it in a topic area that you're interested in so if you're super interested in like bio hacking then you create the bio cons conference you don't need to know anyone you just go figure out who are all the bio that i need to speak here how do i get front of bio while i need to create content about you know bio hacking and i need to get that in front of people using reddit or hacker news or some other source i need to collect emails then i need to keep telling great stories and at the end of each of those stories i need to say hey if you like this kind of stuff there's a thousand people like you including these big names at this event come you know like buy your ticket now to join i think you one hundred percent should do that and i think if you're gonna do it start planning now and it will change your life and it's actually not that hard yeah now last thing but i'll robert we're i'll wrap up with this we've had ryan bi on the podcast i actually did you see that email i said so in two thousand and seventeen i called people who worked at ryan's company ryan's company was i mean i guess it was the other way around my company was basically ryan big company for tech and business and entrepreneurship new news ryan big ran this thing and started the thing called biz media which was basically what my company is for real the hustle but for real estate and so they did about eighteen million dollars in revenue the year they sold and which they sold for about fifty sixty million dollars seventy five employees their revenue was made up a third from media so a third from advertising a third from an event ticket sales a third from sponsorships the average revenue per event team member was around three hundred thousand dollars they did two hundred and fifty events around the year before they sold with the average ticket price being eighty thousand eighty dollars and they wouldn't do it an event unless they could make eight thou ten thousand dollars in revenue most of the venues that they got were free and a lot of times programming was very short so an event would start at seven am it would kick off for an hour of b sc followed by a ninety minute session for panels and discussion and then hanging out and talking and then you'd be back in your office by ten thirty and it was very effective and that's my final point about events which is the content actually not that important all the speakers do and all the content that you're you're gonna have all it does is it brings the a particular like minded person and the value is from that people or those people being there and the content is basically just a way to as marketing to get the right people and the way you know that that's true if you go on youtube you can go watch all this talks from hu con like all the years they're all on youtube and they'll have like two thousand views three thousand views you would think oh if people are coming to hear these great speakers they're willing to fly and pay you know basically it's a thousand dollars all in to go have this experience if you're up from out of out of town which i think a lot of people are then wow you know ten times more people should be just consuming the content for free from the comfort of their own home nope it's not what happens people don't actually take the like it's just like same thing of cor sarah they have harvard all of harvard courses online if you want the harvard education you can go get it for free right now online turns out people don't want the harvard education they want the harvard label in the same way people don't want the content from hu khan they want the experience and the network and the kinda serendipity and that can happen by going out there and getting amongst it with a bunch of other people and like putting yourself in that position peep that's really the value that you get sorry that's i should say that's the value you're providing to the per person who's designed to come don't fool yourself into thinking they're coming to hear this mind blowing content although there is this like sure you put up where you say that's why you're coming and they say that's why they're going but that's not really what out of it that is that is absolutely correct and i'm showing i i actually if you put this thing if you pull this thing up sean called don't really wanna share this publicly but you can look at it it's called event metrics all time i've listed forty six events that we've done and i i list out how many people showed up how much revenue came from tickets and how much revenue came from sponsorships right there's this one event series that we came up with called two x it stands for like two x chromosomes meaning women have two x chromosomes and it was a evening event that we host from nine pm until i don't know whenever it ended or sorry seven pm to nine pm and we would get a sponsor to pay for and we would invite these people to come the first one had four hundred people i'm pretty sure towards the end we would get a thousand people so here's one this one had nine hundred and eighty two people coming we did twenty four thousand dollars in revenue seven thousand dollars and sponsors thirty one thousand dollars in total revenue and then it looks like sixteen thousand dollars in cost frankly we probably didn't even need to spend that much and we made fifteen grand in profit and then we would host that almost monthly in a variety of cities we would do la chicago yada yada yada one night could make you fifteen grand do that twelve times a year then you launch a paid community on top of that you're you got yourself a multi million dollar business inside eighteen months if you just rinse and repeat that very well while building a great network and being kind of the hub in between all these different people the downside of course is that event planning fucking sucks events are stressful and like you know it takes years off my life every time i have to do an event so i hate events but i love this business model i love that you laid it out for the person who gets energy and like wants to do this right like for the nightmare job would be wedding planner but for some people they dream of being a wedding planner and so for people who find that fun they they they like that version of stress that flavor of stress i think you just laid it out a pretty amazing playbook okay yes hopefully it's a good plan someone can go do it and by the way if you use google the hustle two x literally like the number two and then the word and then the letter x i think what's it say we did we did in two thousand eighteen from that event series which is i think we only want we did about two hundred thousand dollars in revenue and a hundred and ten thousand dollars in profit in twelve months from launch to the first year it's pretty good anyway that's that that's that's information on paid events do you wanna do one idea before we go i'm kind of excited about this yeah so yeah okay have you heard of this company future fitness future fit yes i have i tried it i was i i tried it i was one of the i i think i was one of their early users and they did a good job of onboarding me hand onboarding me you know nicely but the product didn't stick with me so i do think it's a good idea well so i don't know exactly how it ended up being but when i first signed up it wasn't that unique but it was slick it was just you have a personal trainer so i paid them a hundred dollars a month a personal trainer made a plan for me and i would tell them what sports i cared about what i wanna be good at and i would talk to them i think weekly about my athletic or about my progress that's what it was when i first signed up but it was all tracked via fast i'll watch and they would send you an apple watch yeah so okay so i think i think it's evolved a little bit so basically what future fit is is it's your it's a personal trainer it's really a like an accountability coach and that's what i'll call this bucket of ideas that i wanna brainstorm within of accountability coaching so future fit basically says hey okay a personal trainer is like a hundred dollars per session you know so so let's say it's a hundred and fifty dollars per session in in big cities like new york or at s f and then you know a gym membership is like fifteen dollars a month right so you you have this like big discrepancy there where one is like one session is over a hundred dollars and the other one a whole month is fifteen dollars yep but then there's something in between now what these guys did was they said well look for a hundred fifty dollars a month you're gonna get a fitness coach and they're not gonna come you know they're not gonna be with you you know like sort of spotting you while you do your bench press they're gonna be spotting the accountability of you actually working out so what they would do they would ask you about your goals then they would send you a customized workout plan based on your goals and in reality they just have a huge library of workouts that's like oh guys who wanna build muscle here's a bunch of workouts to choose from you know woman who wants to have tone but okay you know here's a bunch of workouts to to to use so the trainer sends you a workout that's you know for you based on your goals and then they'll kinda text you and be like hey you get that workout in and they also connect to apple watch so they can kinda see if you did it and they can say hey great job or they can be like hey what's up man like don't don't let go of the rope like keep keep going like we said we wanted to do this keep keep keep doing this and so i think this is you know very smart idea and a very smart business model which is basically the core thing that stops most people from being fit is the habit of fitness the habit of exercise yes if you work out with a trainer you can get more out of every workout but for most people the bigger problem is just sticking to the workout like schedule and routine and actually like not just feeling lazy and not go into the gym you know and so i like that they basically accountability is the primary feature of the that and so i i like that there is knowledge there is tech technique but it's package around accountability so i was talking to ben and right him and ben and and he was like he just had a kid i'll say how's it going how's how's baby life you know used to getting any sleep he's like actually we hired a sleep coach same model woman woman in texas and she basically what's it called she's just like a independent person there's not even like a service so we talked to before about patel which is like my friend damian who's who's starting this company to do this so he just used you know somebody he found that's like known to do this in texas and so he just said great like you know here's kind of what we're doing today like here's my here's my current like routine you know we'd like to be getting some sleep and here's my rough schedule here's my wife's you know rough schedule so we'd like to make it work we don't wanna have the baby cry out so that's like our constraints so they you know your coach basically downloads your goals and your kind of like your limitations your constraints i was said great i got a program for you and i was like oh wow what's her technique he's like honestly it's like not that much he's like you know just he needs to snap at this time specifically and like during these times so he needs to stay awake so make sure you're playing with them or you're feeding them you're doing something then don't let them fall asleep and then like at this time you're gonna put them to bed every single night and like you know when he cries you're gonna go in for this many minutes and whatever a little bit of a coaching on the technique he's like honestly it's not the technique he's like it's just the accountability of like she asks us okay what time did he nap what time did he wake up today what time how did he sleep last night and because we keep having to report to this lady it forces us to not like throw in the towel and just be like oh man like i don't know i give up just let him sleep if you wanna sleep right now it's like no our coach told us he needs to stay awake during these daytime hours so that he's gonna sleep well at night he's like dude it's amazing he's now sleeping eight hours a night he's two months old like life like the first month was so rough and the second month is so much better just with this coach he's like it's not even like anything that we couldn't have just googled to schedule he's like it's how having this woman who were accountable to to maintain the schedule is much more important than like just taking a schedule off the internet of a in the same way like you can go download a workout off the internet but this coach helps you stay accountable with actually doing those workouts so i thought so okay yeah let's break this down a little bit let's talk about what this could work so i actually use a service called do you have your phone on you yeah okay go to my body tutor dot com my body tutor like a tutor like a like a you know like a coach tutor right look at that website how ugly is that oh so i i'm on of nineteen ninety i'll just describe this someone well looks like a nineteen nineties website it says the at the very top it's like this awful logo and then it says celebrating two thousand and seven to two thousand twenty one fourteen years so that you know this this has been around for a while looks like it's two thousand seven yeah and so what it is it's clear i named adam gilbert and he's got a variety of people who are on the on the payroll and you pay i was paying five hundred dollars a month and all i would do it was very simple i every time i ate a meal i would take a picture and he would comment on it once a week i would do a twenty or ten minute phone call and they would say how's it going and the stress that knowing i was being watched right made me change my habits and i got and i lost weight it's almost like when you're writing in a google doc that stress makes you do it that's what this is right when you see somebody else's there okay so so i just started using one because i was like oh when when we when you told about this i started looking into like okay where else could you do this and i thought well it's anywhere you have a goal and that the goal like it's not that you need like some specific strategy that no one's ever heard of it's like no you kind even even know what to do it's just helpful to have somebody who's on your side in your corner supporting you and keeping you focused keeping you on track and so productivity i think is a big one so you're probably like me you know you have like goals for what you wanna do and probably everybody listens to this is like you know i wanna make five more sales this month i wanna get five new clients or i wanna grow twenty percent this month or i wanna like grow my email list to five thousand people or whatever doesn't matter what your goal is you have a i wanna get promoted so you you have a goal and then like your progress is basically like sometimes you need tactical help like strategic advice but really what i what i found for myself is that you just need pressure i need accountability i need to make each day count and if i just get like you know like twenty five out of the thirty days a month account i'm gonna actually hit my goals but if i'm like i kinda had a off day there i was distracted i went down this rabbit hole of doing this other thing oh i got stressed out or you know like whatever if i lose four of those days of like i didn't actually like make the most of that day now i'm down to like twenty days out of the thirty and i'm like i'm off track i didn't get my goal and like what's that difference of like staying on track towards your thing and and off is like for me it's accountability it's why i work well with a cofounder because a c founder helps you like every day you're kinda focused on alright what do i need to do today do i get it done at the end of the day did i like make enough progress or not like that sort of thing and so i found this service so you can do this actually if you want anybody listening to this so you can basically go and it's called what's it's called we focus and it's basically you and your coach mh and it helps you focus on getting to your goals for your professional goals so anything you wanna do with your work or your projects and so you just text this number right like i'll i'll put it in the description it's four three four four three four five zero five four seven six nine i'll put it in the comments but basically it's four three four five zero five grow is the kind of like the the handle of it and you pay a hundred and fifty bucks a month and you basically get a coach and the coach basically just takes you like at the first it's like alright what's your goals for the month alright it's it's it's april what would make for a great april and honestly just that question is actually pretty powerful because you gotta like articulate it you say something but and you realize like oh i wanna really make progress on my book well what does make progress mean like you wanna have a draft of that's like a hundred pages would that be the goal and so they help you like actually set a good goal and then on a day to day basis they sort of like it's kind of like the manager you need it's like the kinda na you enough to make you get it done but they're not annoying this is and and this is focus dot app there's no app there's no there's no website there's no app what's this just a phone number literally just phone number test and so they they have these like coaches wow okay so i can't be if my friend was using it and so so i was like okay what's the number so he just gave me four three four five zero five four seven six nine and so anyways they have like a waitlist i think but you i got let in recently so so basically you you pay hundred fifty bucks and then what happens is the coach will basically say in the morning we'll be like alright great like we said your goal was let's say to you know grow revenue by twenty percent this month and you said you're gonna do that by like ramping up your sales efforts so it's like alright cool hey man hey you know it'll be like hey i'm like like let's get it today like you know what what would make today a great day like how what would be really satisfying at the end of the if you've done what and you're like oh i wanna make like ten ten sales calls like alright great and then like in the evening or the afternoon they'll check they'll be like you know like remember keep you know keep the vision in mind we wanna get there like they'll go it make sure you get those ten in today at the end of the day they'll they'll text you something that'll be like you know hey did you get the ten calls in you know if not you know what do you think held you up today let's reflect on it or if you got it it's like awesome like you know pie five plus like think back to one of those calls where you really kicked ass like like what made it kick ass and so it just helps you and you could put in as much or as little as you want so if you just want it to be like just check with me once a day or once a week it'll do that but if you want it to be like more reflective like i like it where it's like alright let me let me think back on my day like what's what's something i could have done better today so i actually disagree with you strongly on this one this is far too broad i would wanna make it incredibly narrow so for example we guarantee you're gonna be a better writer or sorry the service to make you write more right and you have to log in every day and if you don't get a thousand words you get you get your coach yells at you like dude what the fuck do even want do really actually wanna be a good writer because you're not writing and so i actually would make it far more vertical for yes so relationship i think could actually work yep you know what i would do another one i would just call it gratitude right i'm gonna make you happier by so hey you're gonna put you right well yeah why didn't you write here what you were thankful for this morning right what the hell you could tell gratitude what else we said you said relationships i actually don't know how you would do a relationship one well i think i think for i think for relationships it's like you know people think relationship is when people say they need they want a better relationship what they're early saying is fuck my partner does these things and annoys me why don't they just not do those things and not annoy me and in reality to make a better relationships like you need to be the best version of yourself in the relationship and if your partner agrees to do the same for themselves like you'll have an amazing relationship over time and so in this so what you would do for relationships is you would basically say awesome what is the best version of you you're gonna bring to your relationship and it would just coach you on you doing your part and not doing tit for tat measuring oh i'll behave if my i'll be great if they are great it's like well that's a recipe for failure it's i'll be great because that's who i am that's what works and in the context of being a great boyfriend great girlfriend great husband whatever okay so that could work for relationship so we've diet and fitness is easy i think that's easy yeah you know you have to run you have to hit the smiley where you have a goal so it could be like as narrow as people who are training for a triathlon that i know a lot of people hire like a marathon the hire our marathon coach who helps them like structure their ramp up running and all that stuff so it could be as narrow as any it's anything you have a goal on so the reason i like this one is because my i have like goals when it comes to work right and i know that if i can just if i can be a little bit more productive every single day if i could be a little bit better at my projects make a little more progress every day hundred fifty dollars in a month is like is nothing compared to the value i create by actually doing better in my project so it's anywhere you have a goal fitness diets relationships and so you know whatever those goals are for people i think that accountability coaching is gonna be a bigger thing because it's like anywhere that there's a like so for example relationships you have a relationship therapist or a couple therapy right so you have this thing you could go pay hundred and fifty dollars an hour or you could read a ten dollar book well now there's something in the middle it's like a human on the other side but you don't have to pay hundred fifty dollars an hour or you pay a hundred dollars a month because they're digital and they're managing multiple clients this way in a light touch model same thing with fitness you can have a personal trainer or you can have a gym membership or this is the thing in the middle your accountability coach the same thing with you know work you can have an executive coach who's like you know thousands of dollars as your as your ceo coach or whatever your job is if you're not a ceo you gonna have an executive coach or you could feel go read a management book well this is something in the middle it's a way for you to be better at work with accountability coach so that's the model i see and i bet there's a bunch of areas where this could apply how big do you think future fit is so future fit says that they're they're were trying to get to a thousand coaches this year they raised thirty five million dollars series b so i think they're you know they're probably doing fairly well and they're kind of in that peloton model right they just need like you know if you're making a hundred fifty dollar subscription per month it doesn't take that much to be at fifteen million dollars you know a a year of of revenue it doesn't take that much to be at a hundred fifty million dollars a year like it is an these are achievable numbers as you get to like ten thousand subscribers hundred thousand subscribers type of thing i don't know what their issue is churn though the issue is of course churn yeah because and i think that's why the harder the goal the more the churn this is the unfortunate part of this business is like fitness people fall off that horse and even if your product is great sometimes they just stop wanting to work out eat right you know so i think diet is gonna have a lot of churn i think fitness is gonna have a lot of churn work i think we'll have a little bit less churn but maybe you know still will have churn relationships i don't know where that would fall but i don't know i find this pretty fascinating so and i i i i trying for a few days i like it have you invested in future fit no i invested in fitness ai which is ai version of it i wouldn't invest in future fit because of the churn that was that would be something i'd be concerned about but i would love to own one of these companies yeah totally i've i for sure we'd like to own it do we wanna do one more no i gotta run alright well do by the way do you know that we get criticized for irish buys we just end the podcast our thing i actually do the same thing with my family too like if i'm talking to my mom or my sister like there's no like okay well you know i'm gonna go run to the store now so has been great chatting no it's like gotta go by or i'll just be like bye and i'll just hang up the phone yeah i do the exact thing whatever i'm and they can do the same right back to you don't even need to tell me why you need to leave if you need to leave you just yell by and you hang up before i reply i do this at gatherings sue i don't i i actually don't take goodbye i just walk out oh yeah i do that too because i think it's i i think goodbye are pointless like what's the point it's just like i don't know it's just a lot of effort for something that's uncomfortable for me to do and like yeah once i've decided i'm moving on to my next activity like i've moved on already it's too late i'm here i'm there i'm not here anymore i'm gone right like i gave you the beginning in the middle i don't need an end at the ending stupid you just need the it's it's pointless alright so that's the end of the podcast i feel like i could rule word i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a day's off on a goal less travel never looking back