#170 with Jake Paul - Why Jake Paul Thinks He's Worth Billions

part of its just legacy for me you know just wanting to be this generations jay z or doctor dr yeah i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to from at all in and like a days off on a road travel never look back jake do you know anything about this podcast do you know anything about the hustle what what's your context here because we know i mean i know everything about you or a lot i mean i i i'm pretty up to speed you know i'm not i'm not a expert on the my first million podcast but but i i know i know sam i know you from some gary v videos and i've watched you and he had just jeff has spoken super highly of you and yeah excited to excited to be on the podcast and and learn what it's all about well yeah so i can give you the the the which i'll give you the short run rundown but i'll say that whenever we talk about numbers i feel pretty proud of them and then i talk to you and i'm like that's fuck yeah that's not that interesting so like so anyway the hustle got like two million subscribers and read by those folks each day to get their news and then we have bunch of other businesses that are subsidiaries we have the single called trends where we analyze cool companies we have this podcast which sean started but we just sold the company for a fair bit of money to hubspot like sixty days ago now thirty days ago and sean had a company that he sold to twitch or amazon yeah so that's kind of like eric our our experience here which is actually similar to you jeff i i think that jeff you and i and sean are are a little bit similar but jake like when we say our numbers of like x millions disabled like five million downloads that's you i remember i fart once and got five million downloads i i i actually don't think that i look at people who have niche following almost as more powerful because it's what what audience are you influencing over and you know are they are they listening to what you're saying you know can you move them into different segments like there there's people who have maybe ten thousand followers like i know this this yoga instructor she has ten thousand followers but she has like a course where a thousand people or or two thousand people are paying her to teach them yoga so do do you do for for some of these youtube folks so what what we're gonna talk about today we'll we'll talk a little bit about you've boxing so oddly enough ben at so we have this thing called trends where we have a team of analysts who break down interesting companies and then we have a community where people discuss it ben is a paying member of that group i think jeff either i think you i don't know if you're a paying member but i invited you to it and i come ended in the group i go hey i'm interviewing jake he just launched this this fund with jeff who's another member and he's they're gonna be investing at x y and z and what we're gonna interview them in a couple days which we ask him and ben was the top comment he commented right away what be say ask why he's such a joke is like ask him why he sucks which is like classic it's classic a good ask her and shit talk i love it we could answer that question by invited him to make money on both sides right he's gonna make a a little bit of money from the fight and we'll help invest that money and make them even more money right like i think i mean jake has obviously a personal tie in here but i think we're all about business and and making people money here with anti fund yeah and and and it was just funny how like you know usually sean and i are like we like mma so when we talk about that and then we have tech over here it's like oh my gosh just once while and the podcast we'll do like a fighting section at the last five minutes of just shit we're nerd out about and nobody listens to it and like nobody gives a because our bit our audience is all business people but you know that's not me and sam's little time that we have at the end but i wanna talk about three things so first i guess the headline stuff which is you got a big fight coming up i think it's next week next saturday days now yeah six days from now alright cool the second and so that's on trill right yeah trailer fight club dot com if anyone wants to order it and i'm gonna i'm gonna watch it because a i'm a fight fan but b this is one where it's actually very interesting because normally like okay i'm gonna talk about your brother for a second so so your brother logan paul will schedule or is scheduled to fight floyd may weather which is like you know it's call a spade spade pretty fucking lopsided match you got the greatest box or ever probably never been never been beat never been knocked down going in somebody who's you know an very much an amateur and has made their made their name and and entertainment more so than anything else but u verse ben is like actually something i've gotten into many debates about because you've legit been training for years ben is kinda like the worst boxer in in mma and so you sort of take a guy who's was a champion level fighter but not a great boxer against the guy who's actually getting pretty fucking good at boxing and put them together and so there's there's actually it's pretty torn dana white i think bed a million dollars on ben asking and he didn't even like ben asking so so the the mma guys are really trying to back him up but i think that's a super interesting fight that's coming up sam are you into this yeah god one hundred percent i just watched your friends with low logan's podcast with ben friends with ben and you have like your midwestern like you love midwestern guy you love ben we have jake here right in your face do you have sam who who do you who do you favor here dude sam i'm gonna i have a prop what was the best wanna top out of the bed but put it on record hair week sam is not gonna have any hair what you know about this well always got this so yes shaving her head if you if you it's shave with my head wait yeah is there a hair thin jeff because mine is a little bit and i'm i'm like i made this bet and i saw i started doing research and watching jake spa and stuff got nervous i heard i was like oh my god i why i wish i would save money do you you made your assumption before watching any footage or or looking into it emotional bet yeah i i i did it purely on emotion because we had been on prior and i like ben i mean i i don't know you yet but i mentioned i like you too but i knew him see jake keeps the thing yeah so just a thing summarize for the audience here we have on a record so no one punk out here sam and i were chatting on facebook messenger and we're were just talking some shit and basically i'm hey let's put put something on line right i think money is one thing but i think there's something fun something out of a prop and i think we came up with we're turn into just like whoever loses i got my boy jake you got your boy sam got his boy ben whoever loses is gonna go shave all their hair with a razor snake razor yeah hello we're gonna go a hardcore goal like just clarify with a big razor like it made it head big a big like called it's called basically to call it bi in it you gotta bi it's like it's like shrink yeah right like like skin head yes yeah so anyway we're gonna see what's what what will happen with that but either way i'm gonna win because it's exciting so we're all gonna win i think so that's good i'm gonna keep my beautiful hair and i'm it's gonna be funny see as a skin head sam well it's unfortunately i already look like one so the odds aren't and my favorite the second thing is you guys launched this fun called the anti fund it's a rolling fund right jeff correct it's on angel rolling fun fund angela angel rolling fund we've talked about rolling funds before so so jake actually to your point of like the power of a niche loyal following so i've been doing this podcast for i think i did it for like a year and then i was like you know what i'm a launch a a rolling fund and i said here's what i'm gonna do i'm not gonna go to anyone i know in real i didn't go to sam i didn't go to jeff i didn't go to any of my friends who kind of were like everything think i think if i went to friends in silicon valley and starting to fund they would cut me a check it would have been great but not not a remarkable story instead i said i'm gonna only raise this from people i've never met who just follow me on either twitter or from the podcast and i tweeted it out i said i'm try to raise a million dollars and twenty one days and we're like i think we we crushed it in like three days and we i'm not four million a year on the rolling fund from people i never met and i never did a phone call i never did a pitch meeting or anything like that and that was the power of kind of like a niche following or or a trusted audience that really what isn't that big but the power of the trust and the and the quality of the audience made us an i could raise one of the bigger rolling funds that's huge yeah that's a that's a remarkable story and that would that was sort of you know why we chose to go through the angel rolling fund platform because we wanted to be able to sort of crowds source from our our our you know fans and people who support me and be able to market it out there so that everyone can get involved because when when we're coming into these startups are sort of differentiating factors like the traction and marketing and that we can bring to them and if we have an army of investors who wanna see these products succeed then you know we're all gonna be pushing in and and it sort of creates this this movement how much have you guys raised so far can you say or no we're not gonna say but i think in terms of just like anchor lps we have mark and recent and cry and a bunch of friends and and it's also very interesting to see and talk to a lot of institutional investors but do they go through the rolling front platform because then you're gonna have to give angel list their cut no you have to yeah i i mean i think we're we're i think angel has been good partners honestly right like i think the back office and and and and smoothness on that platform we're very happy to share i mean i think i i think jake and i think res because we're long term players here and i think it it's a very interesting evolution of the venture capital ecosystem right like i i'm i i know understand you're trying to invest i mean sean you have a great portfolio i mean i'm sure we should we should talk about this but it is very interesting to see how wall street hedge cross border hedge are coming downstream top tier venture capital firms are going upstream in the public market entities i think the growth equity people in the middle of getting crushed i think you see solo capitalists raising hundreds as a millions of dollars and sp i mean i think the ecosystem is really really changing and i in our thesis this is that for all entrepreneurs here right like just look the people on your cap table who are actually people who add value and these old school funds who are meddling like i think people like us eat watch what what that's not let's say that like we can't be complementary but i think just i think as a founder i'm looking at the cap table that in my businesses and it's very easy to see like in terms of dollar dilution to value add like the best people on my cap table are entrepreneurs operators and i think jake and i wanted to beat those people on our portfolio that anything think well how much is the fund do you wanna do how much is the fund gonna be you think so i think you you you guys said you wanna be number one i don't know who the biggest is sean you're at like what five million for but that's not the biggest style i think has the biggest rolling fund right now fifth maybe ten fifteen million something like that i think pump has a big one too yeah but so i guess you guys gonna be that fifteen range have hell a bill it does matter that bro that's what they said they wanted to do in the press we would be goal if that's your goal you should want the best returns not the largest size fund so so bad goal if if that is your goal is that your goal jeff to have the largest capital base that's it's not gonna do anything for you yeah no i i think that's just like us in a competitive spirit right but i think the core metric for us is best cash on cash returns right of the today it's irr and returning capital to lps so jake were you angel investing before this or is this kinda your first foray for you personally into startup up investment i've been angel investing since i was like eighteen i'm i'm twenty four an now and then i also had a a fund when i was eighteen called t z capital and we we raised a pretty decent amount of money but was just getting my feet wet into the into the tech business but invested into over twenty consumer startups ups and the fund is is performing well we're seeing exits and we're basically tripling our we basically tripled our our irr capital so pretty successful there as my first phone but now give us some names what are some companies sorry it's a little lag but what are some companies you invested in that we might have heard of so qui i think is one of the biggest ones that's like performing no foods trailer which which quit qui yeah toothbrush thing yeah hush crush beauty mh just just a lot a lot of a lot of consumer brands and you know it's it that was again just me getting started and i was eighteen nineteen twenty years old at the time and it now it's like my reach is bigger than ever my my knowledge is is more than ever and i i have jeff who has such a great reputation and is an amazing founder and entrepreneur so just really excited to to you know go head head down with how did you guys meet mean is a good story because jeff jeff is kind of like you know asian guy from the tech scenes success you know tech entrepreneur jake you're like i don't know youtube playboy how how did y'all across passes is there a good story there or is this just whatever i mean i think like i was talking to chris and atlanta and then jake came in and like we just shook hands i was oh like i saw this i've seen this kid on youtube if he was trolling the fuck out of conor mcgregor that was hilarious this guy help this guy awesome i mean so i i don't know if this is public or not but but fuck it like connor is a big customer of hp men and obviously he's had you know kind of on on record had some issues with endurance so we just knew that through we have some exogenous technology that's been supporting folks and special operations elite athletics and connor was was a customer and i was like hey like jake is cool like i saw him like trying to wanna pick a fight with some of the top elite boxer let's just talk about human performance and we just hit it off from there and we realized that performance was really just the start of what or an overlapping interest was and maybe jake you wanna tell about like your three goals this year like you had a couple goals that you wanted accomplish this year and just really overlapping i told jeff i was like i have three goals this year one is to fight three times the second is to start a vc fund and and the third was to learn to do the splits so oh same yeah the splits the splits thing like this yeah split baby what do you use it but just a lot of stretching just literally sitting in that position and trying to get lower and lower each time it's not really rocket science dude i just signed up for us for a front splits course i said jeff shirtless pictures all the time when me doing a back bridge same say you just we could just talk about flexibility you do a of bit flexibility equal speeds so that's that's that's that's why i'm that's one of my goals but yeah that's that's what how i'll connected and jeff like oh i wanna do i wanna do a fund as well like i've been wanting to i've been wanting to it and we just had mutual friends and just sort of hit it off right away with our our goals and our network and our vision for what we could accomplish i wanna ask you guys and about some specific companies you're looking at and and we could bring up some as well but i wanted to ask you so i've been doing angel investing a little bit now so i made a great living starting and selling a company and i'm gonna continue doing that the thing about angel investing that is like i'm like do i wanna spend a lot of time doing this is that you're not gonna see any returns if ever for like six seven eight years and i'm talking to sean all the time on sean like you think this is a good use of time like this is kinda crazy i don't know if that's do you guys think you jake jeff you guys think that is this gonna be a needle mover for you guys financially or you doing it because it's cool it's exciting i mean what what's your motivation here and don't say like we wanna help founders because i i can't stand that that answer because i think that's mostly bullish bullshit you're not doing it not gonna get something for me it's having the finger on the pulse of what's going on i think that's sort of what i've been best at over over the years is being ahead of trends and knowing what's going on in in the business world and what things are hot and new i can i can leverage that a lot for you know a lot a lot of different reasons both financially both in my career and i can you know have for my opinion on what i think i should be putting money into and then i think part of it just legacy for me you know just wanting to be this generations jay z or doctor dr where you know they're a part of these massive billion dollar companies and do more for the celebrities around them than just be a rap or just be a producer you know i want to be that bridge between the business world and the influencer world and be sort of the one that who the the the influencer or celebrity who's known for that in this generation and i feel like as a twenty four year old i'm sort of already starting to to lead that and and accomplish that jake something something let me i ask a quick of questions on something that i always been curious about we've actually talked about hiring ceos on here but which is a a little bit similar but the jay z thing interests me because he's got his hands and everything so he just sold a a significant part of title i i thought maybe the whole thing he had the alcohol thing and then he's had like like he's had hits like it seems like one hit every year clothing his record label what i'm always curious about and i actually just talked to a guy there other day who j jay z invested in his company and i talked and i was like what's by talking to them and what i'm curious about is guys like jay z and and you're if you're not there already you're on your way there but you probably are what i'm always curious about is how do they structure the the office so how are they actually structuring the day to day so like there's this this the face so jay z is the face and he's gotta do good at music otherwise everything else fails but he's got his hands and all this stuff how are you actually structuring your day or structuring like the jake paul corporation in order to effectively do that yeah i mean for for me it's about it's building out team and you know for me it's a little bit different right now with being in training camp or like i'm traveling all over and training twice a day and so on and so forth but my team comes comes with me and we're sitting like there was a couple more people hear literally right now but we're sitting around this table you know throughout the day going through operations checklist to dos you know hitting deadlines and so for me i'm i'm very much a part of the operations and and running things as as a ceo but there's the are they structured as what's your do you have like a holding like a like a like a jake paul media llc or something like that well it's like it's sort like a parent company and then there's like you know the branch underneath it but then both and most all the revenue is some youtube i imagine related some type of brand revenue advertising revenue and then you just have like maybe eight or five i don't know how many people you said and they just get a bi weekly a bi monthly salary off that so i mean it's just run like a pretty straight laced normal media company is that how how you have it set it's it's pretty much like a media company got it yeah i've always be curious about how those guys do that go jake you you said something a second ago you're like you know i've i've been good at having my finger on the pulse of where culture going where's attention going where's business going and so i'm curious what what are the trends that you're seeing right now what are you excited about you can either name kinda like categories or even better would be you know specific ideas that you're interested in or or concepts or but businesses that you're interested in where where do you where do you see opportunities that not everybody thinks it's obvious today but you kinda see it a little bit ahead of of the curve cool i i i think the hot one right now that sort of has evolved in the past two months is every celebrity trying to get involved in in n t's and and digital assets or digital goods i think a lot of people are doing it wrong though and they're sort of just doing it as like a flash in the in a pan and don't necessarily see the vision of where n entities and why digital assets are so important and and where it can go and then on top of that things like the meta where we have you know these digital museums and digital real estate that's that's something that i i think is is super powerful right now and and then everyone sort of in the past week was talking about bit cloud you know and and how big that's become and i think both of those things are sort of digital digital you know businesses that are backed by influencers and celebrities are are sort of built on the backbone of digital celebrities and artists and they're they're both super interesting i think big cloud you know we will hear about for five ten fifteen years to come and it's it's just such an interesting concept and decent social media is such a powerful powerful thing so the those are two or just like right off the about bat that i'm that are very interesting to me right now are you alright let me show you guys a company let let let's talk about some specific companies in that space i'll tell you one that i'm looking at and you tell me your opinion so sean brought this to my attention i got a meeting with them in like seven hours because they're based in australia so it's like monday morning their time when when they're meeting but i just posted you guys the link i don't know why the links always show up like oh zed on z heard of it yeah zed run z e d dot run have you guys heard of this yeah these horse teeth it's crazy i had friends that have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on buying these horses it's so fascinating now i think so i i'm gonna try invest in them but i think that there's a ton of reasons why this can't work but i there maybe is a world where they become this like massive like you know i forget what makes fantasy sports fantasy draft or whatever it's called traffic there there is a world where yeah draft there is a world where it becomes have you guys seen this can can tell you a little bit about this one so yeah so for those who don't know so run is basically a platform where you go on and you buy like a digital horse so you buy a horse and the horse can be one of these like four different kind of like breathes there's one breed that's known for like speed there's another breed that's kind of like known for let's say like it's endurance and so you know they like the four different kind like classes like almost like gryffindor and slytherin or whatever else right so four different the master breeds so you go on you buy a horse and then you can race your horse now it's so it combines the fun of digital horse of of like horse racing and betting on horses which i've done it sam i know you're from redneck country you've definitely gone to horse horse tracks and and bet on horses so so betting on horses is super fun but now you actually own the horse like in a normal horse race the race happens and like five seconds later you don't give a shit about you know horse number eight you know happy to go lucky it's it's like i don't care about hack happy to go lucky anymore but in this case it's your horse and the better your horse does the more other people wanna breed with your horse so these are the underlying technology is f t's but if you just take that away it's a game basically but it's emerges like the best of like tam ga where you own your little pet as well as horse racing where you actually race your pet and and you can win money gambling on the horse races and so and so i know people that have made like three grand this week just because their horse was winning i was doing pretty well and people started paying him to breed with that horse because he had a twenty five percent win rate but how do you make your better worse it's it's just like a game of sort of random chance right so you you sort of buy the horses at the auction and the horse has some probability of being like one of the like top horses and then even then like anything could happen in a race so the race itself has some probability so it's just a bunch of math equations that's deciding whether this horse is gonna win that race or not or be one of like random it's it's random the same way that like you open a back of a pack of pin basketball cards and you might get a luca rookie card or you open pokemon and you might get a holographic charizard art or not so there's just a a set of probabilities where you get the common stock that are like not that great or you get the premium rare ones and when you have that it's this asset that just drives a bunch of cash flow because it'll win races which wins you money or people will breed with it and win you money and so is this mix and to the people who will go heavy on it there's this crew of guys i've talked to them that are like the same guys that are the whales on the all the daily fantasy sites these guys bet you know millions of dollars i was talking about guy yesterday sky basically himself bets about about three million dollars a month on on draft kings and fan and so the the same crew that became the cream crop they moved to tops shot and they basically bought all the top shot stuff like all the top shop cards when it was really cheap and then they started was this guy i started trading with each i can't say his name but they started trading with each other and they started buying each other's things up and so all of a sudden the prices went up and it's kind of like a little bit food because these guys like they're all buying from each other so it's sort of like a wash trains like i'll pay you five million dollars and you pay me four million dollars back and then i pay you three million dollars and it makes all the price it makes the price of all of our assets that we bought dirt cheap go up to the mass public now the the public just sees it and we talked about it on the pod like oh my god a hundred sixty million dollars has been traded on top oh my god that one top shot is worth four million dollars or whatever and it's because these guys basically pumped the market themselves and like this month this month this month tops shots like crashed it's like down seventy percent and all these guys have moved to z run and so like the place to be right now is zed because that's where you go buy some horses and the whales are all they're betting against each other and driving up the prices so jake and yeah when would you write these guys a check based off of the three minutes of information you know about them i think jake and i like investing the picks and shovel of the space right so i think i think sean i think you're your very astute i think there's a lot of inside dealing and it's a very similar dynamic with the fine arts market or sort of the like the night nightclub social cloud like hey i'm gonna drop x hundred thousand dollars pop in bottles and and and doing the model nightlife lifestyle i think we believe that the market for this exists and i think that for gen z and ford it's just as cool to have digital stunt versus real life stunt so i think enabling this economy i think it's a real market just like war haul are a real market i think peoples are like a real market in the sense that there is some liquidity in the space but i think it's very hard to choose which specific art or artist is to be made and i think for i think we have some alpha is there is going to be a similar infrastructure around the crisp the other bees the gallery owners the taste makers the curator there is a multi billion dollar industry that chooses winners right like who who who says that or roth child forty thousand dollar wine is worth forty eight thousand dollars right there's a an ecosystem that chooses that wine or that chooses that artist to be the next winner so the the question then is is jake and jeff do you think that zed are you willing to bet are you would you bet that this is gonna be the next kentucky derby or i think i i think a lot of these games are hits driven businesses right i think it's like just like how there a bunch of mobile games that were super hot that like spiked and then crashed i think these are like movie franchises right like which ones are durable and which ones are flash the pan right and i think there's a lot of self dealing with folks that coming in early and exactly as you mentioned like i think we've seen and looked that lot at these deals right like the people rp piece that's sold for sixty nine million kris the buyer people at two percent of that the mistake right like they were pumping up people's art value right like that is like well known within like the hardcore n collection like it was a self deal dealt trade like he is pumping his own art pieces right it's almost like like because they're not securities it's probably not inside tri not illegal so i get greatest jake just had a g he's jake's got something to say no i just say i i wouldn't he at something invest are not invest into a company based off of a three minute spiel from not the founders yeah that that's good that that was a trick question good point there was a great tweet i saw yesterday by somebody i think their name is i don't know how to say it for dose by or something like that but they said here's the scenario i have two million dollars of ether i create an n artist piece i've i pay an artist five five grand hey make me some n art cool now i use my two million dollars of ether to buy my own n now i still have two million in ether because i bought my own n the money went to me and i have an art piece that's valued at two million dollars so now i put that n backup up on the market and let's say hit sells for at a ninety percent discount it sells for two hundred k right oh my god i took them i take a big bath on this whoever bought it got a great deal they bought a two million dollar ether the thing this thing just sold for two million they got a for hundred k great i now have two point two million in ether right and it's like that is how simple the sort of self dealing can be in this space right now because this a lot west now that's i gotta tell you the same sort of shenanigans we're taking place with bitcoin really early on and sometimes there is a fake could tell you make it nature to these things right now it's happening on bit cloud so i was i i came on here we're talking about a bit cloud a few weeks ago and everyone's making fun me because they're like oh are you pumping this like you know is this a po scheme like oh you know you know it's like that scene from the office where michael's is all excited and then jim goes and draws a pyramid around the thing he's he's he's you know drawing out and it's like yeah that's para scheme but i you know i sorta of saw something different in bit cloud i think actually bi cloud has a lot of potential i pumped in a hundred k because i know that for all these platforms they don't have to work in the long run for them to be successful they can be successful in two other ways one is they can just show the world that hey there this is not maybe the end the winner but this is a good idea and and then v somebody will come out with a v two later and it'll be better the second thing is if you get in early and there's a speculative run where people get excited and more more people get in involved it doesn't have to like replace facebook and replace twitter for you to make a bunch of money and so that was my view on big cloud jake i'm heavy in your coin right now on bi i'm just wait for you to claim that baby in because you're one of my yeah one my claiming in in the next couple of days here but but it's it's so interesting and and again it goes back to like being able to get the general public involved for me when i saw when when i'm looking at crypto like i understand it more than the average person i'm not a expert by any means but i've been following it for years and investing money into it but it's it's still a bit confusing and i don't know all the different coins and i have to like look and research their functions and all this stuff and figure out who's involved and if they're legit if i wanna put my money in when bit cut came out i was like oh my god this is perfect for me because i know who these influencers are i know who these celebrities are i know who their managers are i know if they're actually smart i know if they work hard i know if their career will have longevity and i think also for for for fans you know they can be like oh my god you know i love this kid on tiktok i think he's gonna be the next big thing but his big cloud only five hundred dollars i can put in five hundred and then who who knows if if they actually blow up and so i think for for the general public big cloud is so much easier to understand it's easier like entry point and it's it's just the start and that's part of the reason why i'm i'm bullish on it as well and think that it has a ton of potential and that it'll it'll be around for a while and you sort of have this direct access to your your most loyal supporters and the people who believe that you will be successful in the long run you're able to connect with them message them and see who's who's backing you so can i just say one thing on that so i got i i joined the thing like three weeks ago and you know it was excited initially and put a bunch of money in and i've made a bunch of money on it but now i'm i guess my thoughts of something is clicked in my head where i now get i can now better articulate why i think this some this idea whether whether it's in bit cloud or or some other project that comes up two years from now this idea is never gonna go away and i'll i'll i'll explain why because a lot of people said okay what's the point why would i buy this coin why would i buy jake paul's coin oh would buy by jeff's coin what's the what's the purpose of it and here's how i would explain it now everybody sort of gets and actually kinda likes things like patreon where it's like well i like to support a creator i like right so i wanna give them money so they can keep creating content and patreon has this like feel good vibe to it where i'm just you know sort of donating and i get back i get some kind of access right so when i get when i pay on old fans or patreon or subs stack i pay for access i pay for stuff and so i give you money and you give me content and what bi clock does is it takes that same trade but it makes it even better for the person giving the money because it says hey this time when you pay when you buy my coin yes you get access you get content you get exclusives you get it's more from me and you're helping me do what i do because now i can make a living doing this but if you were early if you think that more people in the future will want that same access you're gonna not just like pay for stuff and you know it's money going out you're actually gonna make money because your the coin gonna appreciate in value and so you as a early taste maker get to like if i knew jake paul was gonna be jake paul actually jake i saw you we were at a party together you were coming you were leaving i was coming at a house part like five years ago four five years ago and i i remember you were walking around with the backpack on i i i remember thinking why this guy got a backpack and they're like oh that's jake paul i thought oh yeah i've seen some of this guy's stuff on vine i think this guy's great if i could have bought your coin then by being a early identifying earlier on that hey this guy gonna be big not only would i've got the access pay for content but i would have made five x ten x my money by believing it you early so it takes the concept of a thousand true fans which was like a like a twenty year old concept that a lot of people talk about hey if you can get a thousand people to pay ten bucks a month you can make a living as an artist a thousand true fans has gone now it's a hundred true believers a hundred people actually invest in your coin not only are they enough for you to make your living but they will get rich by being early in you too and so i think that's the one thing that will stick around i don't know if big i don't know who's behind big cloud i don't know if it's a scam i don't know if they'll run away with our money i don't know if you'll get hacked nobody can guarantee you those things but i can guarantee you this idea that the the curator the pacemaker makers the people who identify talent early as a fan and they are gonna get it's like buying amazon stock early now they're gonna they're gonna make financial rewards in addition to being our early supporter that idea is never going away and that's what bit cloud brought to the world yeah i hear this this like legit i don't know if it's like an open secret now but like there's legit people behind and like legit operators it's cha off and and jason well they backed it it's public yeah yeah they backed it yeah yeah yeah yeah and like the operator the founders is like a legit guy who's raised like hundreds of month like a hundred fifty nine dollars of his of previous crypto projects so i think like the team is like gonna be reasonable under by like reasonable people yeah i mean i think the long term scheme is it like for twitter instagram right like jake app offered so much freaking value to those platforms but he has to monetize off platform jake how how much money how much value do you think you created just give me a a wild ass guest it you know a wag wild ask guess how much value did you create for vine for twitter for youtube what would you put if you were throwing a number out there how much value was the paul we're the paul brothers for for for those platforms oh he's over or like billions billions of dollars in in buying media value in my market cap for sure hands down every day of so let's let's let's take the conservative angle let's let's take it most conservatively let's say you only added a hundred million dollars over the last ten years i think it's extremely conservative estimate right or or or or we can go out we can just say a hundred million roughly right now what do you think what percentage of the value that's created do do youtubers capture did they capture like one percent of the value they're creating ten percent like how how one side is the deal in your opinion i it's it's very one coincided and and i think that's why you see you know youtube and creators not as you know in in sync as as before because their finding ways to go off platform and make money like only fans bit cloud their own subscription platforms so it it's not the same ecosystem that it was before but even before it was still very very lopsided and you know we're bringing all of this attention to youtube and we're bringing those eyeballs is without that content there from the influencers you know the the fans aren't necessarily gonna come back all the time i think and i think that's value you can't even really put a put a price tag on yeah i i mean just looking at it from like a netflix model right netflix spends billions of dollars disney plus spends billions dollars on content and then youtube basically take gets it for free and then kicks it ad revenue shit split to to the creator so what like yeah i just don't think it's a stable equilibrium just from a like a like economics one zero one like that will have to change in the medium long term and i think that's part of our thesis as so what do you call what do you call this genre of companies companies that basically help people like jake or or us make more money versus just making you know a tiny bit of money from ad revenue what what do you what do you call this like niche niche yeah i i think i think people are deem at creator economy passion economy i mean it's just like i think there's a new way i i i think like what is the ultimate commodity it's time what is this best proxy for time it's money what's the second best proxy for time attention right like it's so what i think it's like literally time is what everyone has limited resource of money buys you a lot of time because you can pay people to do stuff for you an right like attention is very very scarce and i think what creators and influences offer is a lot of attention so let's let's let's actually talk about some of those companies that you guys are looking at i know i mean i know the past one jake said that he helped build or was very tightly associated with fan joy which i if i had a guess i i i just just from what i read online i would imagine that they're doing north of a hundred million dollars a year in well they're for sure doing north of a hundred million in gross merchandise revenue gross merchandise sales are they doing more than a hundred million in like net revenue i'm not sure actually if i would bet i would say fifty or six explain what it is people who don't know what's jay got fine c cofounder founder on on the books of man but also investor and like just been very involved in in strategy from from day one with the ceo chris but essentially fan joy is the best place for influencers slash liberty slash athletes to go for their merchandising z creation shipping fulfillment and fan experience so you know let's say there's big influencer and they need merchandising fan android is the best place to go they take care of design fulfillment and shipping customer service the the website and it's it's basically a to z one stop shop what do you it's some what's gonna be the the how does the how does how does fan join in someone like one of the massive t shirt companies or something like that buys them for hundreds of millions of dollars and and i think just continuing to to scale and scale and bring more influencers and and you know do it doing unique things like just disrupting retail in many ways because you know when when some of these influencers we've seen them go into retail in different places like zoom or target even they're they're going crazy because their fans can actually go to the storm and buy physical products so i think there's you know there's a lot of there's a lot of value in that and then just getting super smart around the the the actual product and and the customer acquisition and there's always gonna be an influencer a celebrity or an athlete that's super popular at the time and so the business obviously continues to grow and grow and grow what other products are you seeing in this space that are interesting that most of our listeners won't even know are thing i mean big cloud we've talked about but that's something that that'll creators yeah monetize better than just at plain advertising i mean maybe just like i we don't wanna like scoop some announce some investments but we already started making some investments and i think we've looked at novel ways to do commerce right like i think sms conversational commerce is very very interesting you know sam you you've been awesome to kick over some interesting deals and yeah we i could tell you so we i i sent jake and jeff this company called tails and what it does is the the reason it interest me is there's already companies in china doing this they have like fifty seventy eighty billion dollars in market cap and entails is a platform where an author can upload the pat the text of their past books and through a bunch of different technology it turns into an interactive book which you can sell for more money and make the author more money and that's kind of interesting i think that there's a ton of reasons why that business can fail there's a few reasons why it could be quite massive and so i i invested in in in it for the few reasons i think it could be big i think i send that send it to sean yeah yeah i saw that one too so so jake let me ask you let me ask a question in a different way the people who listen to this podcast are like makers of some kind of product engineers everybody from we've have like execs at twitch or youtube or facebook that listen this podcast twitter and then there's like you know the eighteen year old college kid who listens to this because he loves getting ideas about like different things that they could go built and so a lot of them the one of the biggest dms i get is just like hey like do you have an idea or what do you think of this idea i can make anything i just don't know where i don't know what the problems are that people have because imagine you're you're you're a twenty year old kid it's the the apps that those people build are typically the prop the apps that solve problems of twenty year old kids but they're not because they don't know what problems that jake paul has and same thing with execs at these companies they don't always understand what are the problems that an influencer like you would have so what are some pain points or like if you could say kind like man i wish somebody would make it easier for me to do x or man it really sucks that you know i'll just throw out some examples while you think because i know that's a tough question but like no i i you know i can't buy a house and like it's sucks you can't get a mortgage even though i got millions of dollars have no w two income okay go so i i think in this space there are very few people who are great at just social media in general from understanding it knowing what's going on knowing the players involved being able to create content in the space edit videos graphic design you know understanding twitter being able to run a twitter account every every everyone i meet ever is like i need a social media person i need someone who can edit film understand post do the captions tweet make the tiktok come up with the videos i need idea like every single company every single influencer needs that person and there's where are they i don't know i i've had to it it's it took me long long long time my my my genre right here he's my guy he's like i'm right here but but it it's so hard to find them it's so hard to find them and so i wish there was a place where i could just go and be like who's the best social media people i think that would blow up instantly we just went through this yeah we just we so jake so what that look like i just had a fun conversion of this where like you like so my studio looks you can say it jake i look pretty legit right now right got it good lighting inc got good audio got got it got a good camera i didn't know how the fuck to do that and so these guys basically flew out to my house and built me the studio in my garage and they did the same thing for sam and then they said great we're gonna take your podcast podcasts and the videos from this and we're gonna chop it up and make awesome social clips and just have them ready for you on a platter to post and then some guys posting them for us so now we have this machine behind us that's taking the raw content and turning it into something awesome it took us a year to find that and we were just lucky that we found it so let's just r on that idea for a second it seems like there's two ideas that come to mind you tell me if either of these are exciting one is a way like a job like a like basically like a place to go higher like you know linkedin is too broad you know upwork is just too random a place to go a marketplace where you could find trusted content creator like allies digital like kinda like editors social media people graphic designers stuff like that so like a place to go find high quality people like that like a a marketplace do you know yeah jake do you know angie list here when jake exactly yeah but the the thing is though is like a good creative artist editor slash videographer isn't gonna go and fucking make a linkedin profile like how do you get these people who are actually good and like super talented to maybe be on one of these one of these these sites i don't know i don't know and i young so so one company is called dr where drip like great designers didn't wanna go to linkedin and just say a great designer and even if you went to linkedin you couldn't tell if they're were a great designer or not what dr did was it let them upload little shots so it's like while they're were in photoshop if they're doing something cool they kinda take a screenshot upload to dr and other designers see it so it kinda became to social network for designers to share their their coolest stuff they were making it's like our portfolio and then but once they got everybody building their portfolio on here and sharing it with each other then it became the best way to hire designers because now you could go just go browser portfolios and they got higher paying jobs so that's one it's anglo attack the other is lambda school so i invest in this company called lambda school that basically was training people to become software engineers like every tech company needs a hire engineers is you know like every influencer needs a social person who's making you know editing and posting stuff every tech company needs more engineers and so lambda school was like you college is not doing it we need to make a nine month boot camp we'll make you like from zero to ready to be hired and we only make money if you get hired so like we're fully aligned with you if we can't get you a high paying job as an engineer then we failed we don't make any money it's on us and lambda school is gonna be like a billion dollar plus company now you could make potentially a lambda school for whatever content creation or media creation yeah i mean let's just put it out there like i'm sure all of us would invest in a company that would like prime up people that doing social media management i think i mean i'm talking to sam t one of your lead riders for this for h free i think there's is a scarcity in this type of skill set but but but jake what are the solutions to the alright so we somehow we got to the solution of like some type of job board is she like vetted thing the other like obvious one is well we're just gonna build up an agency where we hire thousands of people that that actually probably could work it would be kind of a pain in the ass and not that exciting what other solutions are there that you would that you propose for this i guess it would be maybe like a a place where the people could put their highlights yeah maybe like their their videos but then there maybe their understanding of of social media like a re almost if that someone had a resume spot that was more robust for this specific type of thing but again it's difficult it's a because it's a this is a challenging thing i i yeah i hear this problem i have this problem as well where i'm like i just wanna hire someone who i could just say just do it it is but all i hear you i'm and i've i haven't come up for the solution i just looked at five you guys know you guys definitely know five they're they're maybe you could do just a more exclusive fiber they have a pretty good market cap eight billion dollar publicly traded it's pretty fascinating than yeah but i think i think to your to sean's put i think lambda has like a good model for there is i think best practices that some you know you know someone like you know you know john who who works with with jake is like literally teaching c like just giving the best practices of what like a top tier top five creators are actually doing what their setup right like your guys set are beautiful right like why isn't that replicated across everywhere right i would pay to just have that just set up for me so would you guys invest in that would you basically just launch jake like a i mean you wouldn't do this but maybe someone would for you a a jake a jake like a like a like a sole some cooler name than social media school but a social media you know like a school like that yeah so i've i've tried i dabble i dabble in it i've dabble in trying to teach kids about social media and how to do it and like so on and so forth and what i found was is that just people weren't dedicated honestly and it was a lot of it was a lot of shit and lot lots of hours of content me explaining and it just i think people don't understand how hard of a job this is and how it's twenty four seven and there's so many different you know parts to it so i've tried the educate people before i actually think what would be far more what what i think it'd be what i think it'd be interesting is if we created a like a where it it's not geared towards young kids it would have to be geared specifically towards companies and what you would do is charge ten to fifteen grand and you your employees would go to it and you would have recorded talks by jake paul by logan but then you'd also be like alright now we're gonna talk to these editors they're gonna show you how they do it and it's a three week oh no you do six week thing you meet twice weekly for three hours of piece and you just have a curriculum and it's just like a boot camp i'm pretty sure you could build at least a ten million dollar your company doing just that and potentially it could become much larger like a larger like a miami school for advertising which is like a hundred million dollar a year company that's been around for fifty hundred year whatever yada you probably could do you could probably get quite wealthy doing just that well i i think anti fund went to invest and something like that there's a credit credible operator right i think lambda showed the path for software engineering right now i think you're exactly right this is not like the train kits like eighteen nineteen year olds that are just like dabbling around they just wanna kinda of like hang out and get affiliate with a jake paul this is like hey we wanna train legit social media managers for top five hundred enterprises i think that there's a clearly a demand again like h the business i've worked with like we would pay for that and can i so i think it's like hey i if guys ship in like we can like in if the audience here there's there's entrepreneurs out there every time we put out there hey here's an idea like time we put out an idea that says hey i have this problem here i think there's a genuine problem in the world and somebody could fill it maybe doing this maybe doing that and i would back to you if you wanted to do this do we get incredible operators coming out the wood so when they hit us up after this i will share you know we'll share it amongst the four of us and if if somebody's legit trying to do this great we'll we'll go for it like jake i don't know if you saw this but we did a a mini spa where i just straight up said hey there's all these little small like saas companies out there that are you know they're they're not doing great but they're not horrible and i said instead of going to business school and wasting two hundred grand and two years of your life i will gift you one of these businesses i'll buy you a business for five or ten grand that's making i don't know a thousand dollars of profit per month right now and and you run it you'll learn more from this than you will for business school and a bunch of other people on twitter chimed in they're like i'm in for five k and so it kept going and now and we basically gifted this kid he's a college senior we gifting him a hundred thousand dollar business it was a shopify app and it's a shopify app that may it's already profitable in the person behind it hadn't run it and so this is like a new education model right like this this guy is not you know instead of going to business school he's gonna get to run a business and for us we get a kickback if this guy able to grow it and if he's not no problem like the business is already profitable so there's already kind of like a floor on how bad this can go for us but we're we're pretty balls with the stuff we put out and people step up when we do so i'm curious is there any other pain points for like dude somebody should do x or i wish somebody would solve this problem for for me or for people like me is there anything else that comes to mind i'm curious i'm trying to think of like right right off the the top of my head i can bring one up if you if you don't know one as well like it's crazy because like to actually sit there and think about like this i would i would wanna like put it out on twitter more maybe i need to become better at at putting out some of these ideas like guys i we need help with this on twitter it's obviously fight weeks i'm just posting all this stuff about the fight but i think a thing i need to get better at posting like this business sort of stuff on i'm on my twitter and utilizing it to to capture and engage audience because i have ideas like this that come up all the time but i'm just like us no one's ever gonna do this i think you'd be surprised i think particularly if guys like jeff or me or sean eventually start like sharing it and then you start you're gonna start capturing like you know our side of the world which you're already are but i i think you'd be surprised that who would pounce and some of these stuff put some of these things percent can can i break up one quick one really quick because i know we're we're getting close of time i i just again the reason why this is interesting is because i've talked to jeff a ton about this and it's also interesting because jake's younger than us but it's like i guess technically you are a professional athlete and then sean doesn't care about any of this but i think he's the ideal customer so here it is the average twenty two year old male today this is a tweet that went viral the other day the average twenty two year old male today has roughly the same testosterone levels as a sixty seven year old hat in the year two thousand the average testosterone level has fallen close to fifty percent in the last two decades pretty wild a company that i've been looking at and i actually passed on them and i kinda regret on it is called peak so i actually it's called get peak today and so the idea here and i wanna hear what jake kinda like you're kinda speaking on behalf of like the a little bit younger folks sean you're speaking on on behalf of people who maybe should consider taking us but you don't and and i do take it so basically t to testosterone replacement therapy it's a incredibly scam industry this company get peaked their url get peak today dot com i think they're doing something like fifteen million in recurring revenue in the first eighteen months what do you guys think about the about this industry t basically what we're explaining listeners is just fucking injecting yourself with the needle with testosterone basically a pet every well i i yeah maybe i i actually have some experience here as a bio hack interest in human performance so i actually did an angel investment in the company called maximus keith boy and formation a laid the seed round and they're just rolling out of alpha the founder ceo is camp sep who is a ucsf yeah i know him trained clinical psychologist so he's doing some interesting work there exactly solving that problem i think it is of under spoken issue where yeah exactly like literally the average man today their testosterone levels is like their grandfather of of of thirty four years ago is that i mean we can go down all sorts of rabbit holes that might not necessarily be pc to talk about but it is a very interesting where t levels are just dropping i like hey have you explored this jake and as you've gotten into athletics have you explored like your your t levels in there yeah yeah i've definitely i've definitely been tested for and and obviously like mine aren't terrible like that but it's it's definitely it's definitely something that i think men talk about even at this age already like it's starting to become this this bigger conversation that that needs to be that needs to be fixed obviously there's a massive problem there i think obviously due to our diet our food or chemical or pesticides all that bullshit obviously has to do with it and thirty when or when you're thirty thirty five ish and you're no longer and you no longer like you know i i i are you tested test by usa sat i imagine you are right usa sat what one of those yeah i don't even know which one it is yeah so like when when it's no longer an issue of of using a performance enhancing drug would you'd be adverse to injecting yourself weekly for the rest of your of life with testosterone and how do you think some of your your peers would feel about that would they do i do it for sure i mean if you're it's gonna increase your life performance and your your lab and your muscles and all of that stuff then for sure you know especially it's only gonna get worse as you get older and so if it's already this big of a problem in our generation then then of course you know and it and it's this is something that again is becoming a bigger conversation and i think hair loss and all of this stuff are all part of that maybe i'll best in this company just because jake said that his peers would do it we should see this this company dude this is this is one you i think you said this on like the first brainstorm we ever did this and this is still i think probably the best idea you've brought to the table you peaked on day one of this t subscription company because you see what hem and row have done where they took the same thing a a taboo topic like a e dysfunction or you know or or or early early baldi and they basically created a a top like consumer brand that built trust and they went crazy building a d brand on you know through facebook and advertising around that topic and this is i think an even better business because it is i i think the market is actually larger for something like this i think some people are scared jake i passed on this on the seed round on the seed round i passed on this company and i was like and now i see their numbers now and i've got so much but it frustrate frustrating frustration this type of thing it's not even just like a one winner take all like him and roman are both multi billion dollar companies both fighting in the us i just invested in you know roman for canada because it's like the same thing if it it works in the us it's also gonna work in canada it's not gonna not work there and and this you know you need to need a very different like kind of legal and logistical setup to do it in canada and these other guys are doing it better so i think that it's not like there's one company that's just gonna win here especially if you had the power of distribution behind it like if jake could logan and or whoever if if they invested in something like this and had it had skin in the game to be able to bring awareness to this crazy fact right a company only needs one insight to start and if that one insight is the average twenty five year old today has the same test officer as their grandfather did s sixty seven like it's dropped that dramatically like that one inside is alone you can go start a company on you'll figure the rest out as you do it you don't need anything else to get started yeah i mean i think that's a thesis upon anti fund i think it's like how how do investors help right it's like and like again you guys are all awkward there's two like who are the best people on your cap table it's like can they make introductions can they give you attention can i give you customers and it's like and i think like you guys a pro i i i would invest in your funds because like you guys have channels you guys have people that actually listen to you you guys are sharp you guys get a lot of deal flow and i think in in some sense you know we're starting a little bit behind in terms of our funds status but like obviously jake and i our personal investors and have some track record there but i think people like us i think will have outs sized returns compared to the mid vc funds who are run by people in the previous generation who don't get the strategy that we're trying to execute here yeah i buy that okay we should i know we're up time sean you wanna you wanna wrap it her up i i think we should how do people get more so where do they follow you guys how do they invest in anti fund watch the fight plug plug everything you wanna plug for people who who have listened it this far yeah i mean i think in terms of the fun information where i'm angel list i think we're the top featured rolling fund right now so angeles search for anti fun we're there we we have profiles on instagram and twitter you can find jake at jake paul you can find me at jeffrey wu on all the standard social channels and then watch jake's fight i don't know yeah sure dude want on on your angel fund and i love bullet point number four on your angel fund rolling fund sales page what is it as the earth is flat you're the earth is plan yeah i may i think it's i think it just shows a little of the personality where i think yeah i i think it goes back to the thesis that like if time is the ultimate commodity what are the proxies of that and i think it's like you can command capital or you can command attention those are like the most powerful assets that today in today's economy and hopefully we can execute and and and utilize what we think we have some advantage share to return you know returns for ourselves and our lps good hold on gotcha john okay we can wrap it up jeff jake thanks for coming jake good look at the fight i think you're gonna win sorry ben if you're listening i i just think that jake cares more and he's gonna try harder to win i think ben is is okay with the decision and because of that i think he's gonna lose rounds that's my prediction it's on the record sam you're gonna shave your head that's that's what that's how i think this all plays out thanks for coming on guys we should we should do this again we should do this again and like i don't know six months or a year and we'll see what you guys are investing in and we'll keep shooting this shit and talk business yeah a quick debrief so i still feel like crap and i don't know if i told you but we i was in saint louis when this happens which is thirteen hours away we were supposed to meet with jake on like a wednesday or thursday or something something changed we had to do it on sunday he told us like twenty four hours in advance so i just drove back here and i got home at like i drove through the night i got home about five am oh shit i had no idea and then we did we did the podcast at like i forget which time noon maybe yeah i was exhausted i'm still exhausted so i was i hope i i hope it it it went over okay well yeah i hope it turned out okay i i know that when we were talking to them live there was like a little bit of a lag or like a delay just on his connection or something and so that made it really hard maybe just remember like how much more fun this is to do in person than like i don't care how good these tools get i don't care what zoom is worth like doing the podcast in person is so much better than doing these online speaking of which although actually let's talk about do you say anything i don't really have much to say i thought that went okay it went fine yeah exactly was fine i would say right it wasn't bad it was fine yeah he you know he was like you know he took a seriously he i thought he did a good job he was trying to like you know he he brought he brought like he brought it to the table what he you know what he had to bring to the table which was like yeah here's how i think about my business here's what i'm focused on here's some things that other influencers i think don't get right but here's what i think i'm i'm doing better or you know here's my here's how i think about it so i thought that was all good i thought a bunch i thought i was a little bit disappointed in in a couple things one was jeff's great i love jeff but also there was questions where i want like tougher questions for jake that jeff would take for him and i thought oh yeah jeff jeff was totally blocking for him yeah he was and which i think he gotta do if you know that's your relationship you're like the business guy and the partnership so you're like okay i'll handle that question it's kinda like but it's the same thing like you know if you ask a ceo question of their p person answers you're like no i didn't want to hear or your answer like i know your answer yeah i wanna hear that person's answer and so that's the only thing where it felt like there were sometimes where like shit like jeff i know you have a good smart answer for all this i wanna hear what jake thinks about that because you know he's the interesting personality frankly of like you know of why i was excited to do that was like i wonder how this dude who's totally different than me thinks about this type of stuff whose life is totally different right you're one of the biggest youtubers in the world and you know you're gonna have a different perspective than like me and sam and and jeff who's we're all kind of like the same like kinda like tech entrepreneur what how much do you think jake paul so like we i asked him about the jake paul like how how it's set up and so basically there's probably a he kinda said there's like a jake paul llc which probably most the revenue is like youtube ad or brand revenue and then then there's a variety of like i bet minor things so maybe his investments or something like that but how much do you think the jake paul media company earns a year in revenue and profit man it's hard to say i okay let's let's just i didn't bring this up to them even even though this is something everyone at wants to know including myself i didn't feel i wasn't on that level we're not okay so like if you just take youtube but i'm sure people can do you know on the fly here i'm not gonna do the back of the envelope like how many monthly views is does this video get okay then you assume a five dollar cpm for his youtube ad you know rev share and then you say okay he has these sponsors i think there were gonna be seven figure you know i would say his media side of things should be bringing in about ten million dollars a year that'd be my guess i was thinking a little bit more but give or take give or take no fifteen twenty yeah fifteen to twenty so i would say that's the that's a media side which is his youtube cut plus his his his issue is that he's not entirely brand safe which there's no judgment there i'm just that's probably the truth yeah exactly and then i would say the boxing stuff is probably gonna bring in about the same because they own a lot more of that so even though the total pie is less you know they don't have youtube takes such a big cut that i think you know if comparatively i think his boxing stuff i think if they're smart they're doing it like floyd may weather where they are the promoter so they're the promoter and they're the talent and they put on the show and then they they kind of licensing deal with trailer whoever to split the like paper buys on top of that so i would guess their boxing stuff gonna bring in like five million to ten million also and then on top of that is like anything else you know which is like maybe t shirts maybe merge maybe maybe other stuff i feel like the whole i you they i bet you i bet you him and his brother sell collectively twenty to thirty million a year in merch yeah which is insane i think his brother does does more i think his brother is a bigger enterprise than than jake is because that his brother has the impulsive podcast which i think is like the number one podcast you know like it's like top ten or something like that if if you include like the youtube views they get so i think that podcast has turned into a big thing for them and then logan also has like maverick as his brand and like it's mae brand or whatever and i think that that's like a a stronger brand overall and has like a larger following than than what jake has this that's my guess but i'm not like i bet me neither i but i bet you we spends a ton of money if i had a bet i would bet that the difference between like jake paul person and jake paul media is probably quite like every all every expense is probably media expense or the company expense so it's not not the same or not really different i we spends at least half a million a month that's a lot yeah but he's got his crew right it's like all all celebrities yeah yeah you that rolls with you it's like alright we're flying here you know like they took a private jet after after our podcast he got on a private jet and flew to wherever they're gonna do the fight for fight week and because he's got you know big boxing match on saturday so you know the one thing i gonna ask you is you know whenever somebody meets a celebrity i always ask what's you know what's he like what she like which is it doesn't really matter what you say it's like the conversation is usually not typically that interesting but it is interesting to be like what's that person like in real life so what was your impression what's he like respectful kinda quiet listened more than he talked he was just like a quiet a quiet young person i mean he seemed confident enough but he was very polite in the podcast on the podcast sean basically put me on the spot and i was like oh so sam wants you to lose and he handled it gracefully right so like respectfully like he didn't say like all you efforts it sucked he didn't disrespect ben at all so i thought he was very he was polite he didn't big time us he you know which we've had that experience with other people who either come on the pod or we're trying to get on the pod they'll you know people who are famous and have a bunch of like obligations everybody wants a piece of their time everybody wants to have them interviewed or whatever it's easy to kinda big time other people i thought he was extremely respectful did not do that at all you know brought his you know a game to the table i thought like you know this guy really is in some ways a marketing genius like to build his self brand up the way he did is actually quite impressive it's to me as impressive as building you know i don't know whatever the brand of gin jeans or you know whatever like any brand that kinda like hits some pocket of coleslaw well let's put this in context as well i think he's twenty three twenty four yeah she's twenty four so i think before the podcast started we were like by the way maybe we should put this segment like at the end should move yeah yeah but he said something like yeah we're like you have do bet he en yeah i've been angel investing since i was like sixteen but i is that what he said six he's like i have a pretty large real estate portfolio like i invested real i'm like oh wow you're you've been doing this longer than i have and i'm seven years older than you right so so that's pretty amazing and you forget that you forget that like whenever i see lebron like young videos of lebron when he you know is rookie year because i like to watch like old youtube clips of him doing stuff i'm like wait a minute this guy's is nineteen you he's got reporters in his face asking him like you know you you threw the towel and you were kinda disrespectful and and he had handled it with such po answering that question i was like what was i like when i was saying to i was told what was i like when i was jake paul twenty three years old it's pretty amazing yeah there's videos of me goof around prank people or trying to make funny youtube videos when i was probably sixteen and seventeen years old that you know i've been canceled for today right because it's just a dummy i didn't know anything about anything i couldn't handle like any kind of serious conversation i wasn't i didn't have a real estate portfolio you know i wasn't that guy and i think this type of you know getting getting famous forces you to grow up one way or another and also like a big part of the choose around you i i'm pretty fast by all these like childhood child celebrities and it's like you see that their dad is the manager and then like they get to kinda take advantage of by their best friend who stole from them and like this is so common like that's not it's not not surprising when you hear that it's like oh yep that's the pretty much par for the course here with athletes and musicians and child actors like that's how it goes and i would say the transition from like a platform or to platform right getting big on vine so go to new platform get big there go move to youtube then from youtube instagram okay so cool you're building up your social following then it's like alright what got me famous was you know beeping being prank and jokes and silly stuff and then now you know logan paul's podcast podcasts is like actually like more like real conversations and they bring on you know crypto people and they talk about investing and they talk about this other thing they bring on you know a porn star they'll talk about that they'll talk about a wider variety of things and then you you go then they're it's like okay so they stayed relevant on social media for a while which is hard then transition to this boxing thing which i think it's kind of a genius move this like celebrity boxing angle that they took because they're making a lot of money and now they're like just like a different chapter it's like they got off the daily vlogging treadmill which whichever youtuber burns out on and they're like alright screw it i'm gonna go train for nine months i'm a do a boxing match it's this other youtuber neither of us are really in any danger because we're both second boxing or we're each gonna put down millions of dollars and do something different with our life right it's like oh that's cool then it's like building businesses starting a rolling fund that's like continually reinventing yourself is interesting to me i think if you if you listen to like whenever we do billy of the week it's usually somebody who's reinvented themselves and three or four different chapters of their life that is interesting and this guy's i thought that was kinda cool how he's done that he didn't say any of those things but just when i was doing the research i was kind of taken it aback by oh yeah that's he's already had like three three to four pretty interesting chapters before the age of twenty five yeah i feel like i could rule word i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a day's off on a travel never looking back