#164 with Ryan Begelman - BitClout Explained, How To Successfully Angel Invest & A Police Sting?

so i came on the show to talk about only two things of one of them is how my investment strategy where after twenty years of of making like i don't know like sixty investments i have now figured out exactly how to do what you're just what you're talking about you wanna hear the break breakdown yeah i feel like i could rule the world i know i could be what i want to from at all in and like a day's on on a road travel never looking back sean alright we're live what's on going on i did something last night i had dinner with average checks i bet and so the back i gotta tell people the back of the story is it fun going basically shaw tweeted us thing got viewed by like probably six million people at the time he politely but he still said it that he thinks club house is gonna like die it was polite whatever andrew chen who's a friend mine is basically discovered club house i think he was their first investor he loves the company he thinks they're the biggest thing ever invested yeah blocked blocked sean invested in it black sean and sean poe this sounds like silly drama and it is but it's fun but but it's fun sean blocked i didn't block him or sean got blocked and the and he sean you posted a a picture of it and that alone got thousands of thousands of likes so anyway i just think it's fun i'm a little caught in the middle so it sucks for me i'm not def i'm not actually defend i'm i'm actually defending both sides but i'm not i'm i'm saying neutral but i i think both both parties are actually right so did he block me because i think it's spot at me or he doesn't like me or what what what is the what why did he block me he just says that he goes i have a rule that i just don't like a lot of negativity on my twitter feed and also anyone that disrespect anyone that i'm associated with i just automatically block i don't even reply which i think it's fair i actually think that's a good i'm on board with that i don't think you were disrespectful but i i it's cool that feels that yeah that's okay i i think it's fine that i was surprised because i met andrew before and we were friendly like you know before this i would have thought andrew is somebody who you know if i see something interesting i would send it to him i'd be hey this i think this is right up your alley and he'd be but cool thanks man and you you know we if we saw each other at a at a meetup or party and would say hello like you know it was it was like that so i was surprised when he blocked me he him and mark injuries blocked me so both of them who you know followed before and then went straight to block without like you know anything between op go with that i'm sure you guys will all be for i'm sure you all be friends eventually you guys are all great i totally get it you know like if i respect if i think someone just being a hate or like you know and for them i think they get it from all angles like they're always fighting with what's her name taylor ren and like you know different people in the media shit like that are they're probably just like dude i just like they're probably just tired of people who are critics or critical and i think there's a difference right there's one big person who's a critic and this is somebody who sits on the sideline and they are professional criticize and i think there's a difference between being critical which is to say hey actually like i'm trying to i've noticed some things or i've some observations and here's my opinion and i don't know if i'm right or wrong i'm saying it as an opinion clearly and secondly i hope this is not true i hope they succeed and i was genuine about that that wasn't like just abortion bullshit i put in there and i'm clearly somebody who is been through it i'm not just like somebody on the sideline throwing in rocks you know like there's that thing that that quote that everybody loves it's like you know some teddy roosevelt quote or whatever the man in the arena you know it's not the create a who counts type of thing and i would say in this case you know i'm neither the man in the arena because i'm not doing this startup nor am i the critic who just sits in the bleach features and you know booze you know i'm like the man who was in the arena got my ass kicked by the same competitor and i'm trying to yell to the man in the arena hey watch out this you know this this competitor is no joke and here's why here's some of if you try this move this might a problem if you try this move this might be a problem i hope you don't try those two the issue the issue is is that your thing your polite but criticism nonetheless reach so many people that it it you could actually impact the a i i people i think i'm crazy i think that i think that tweet could put potentially have a have a say i i think this will have zero impact on the company in terms of that if anything it should have a positive impact where maybe the product people inside the company read it they say okay you know one are the if you take the jokes and the z out you know you just look at the actual like like the kind of the product observations what the challenges might be cool like do we think we have a good do we think this is true and if we do think it's true do we have any good counter for what what this problem might be and how we might actually solve this problem i think that would be the positive somebody people keep sending me these charts because the google trends in the app store keeps showing that club has going down like sharply like recently and they're like oh the sean po effect i'm like no there's zero percent chance i could do that and if anything most people haven't even heard a club house yet i haven't had access to it so if anything a bunch of drama about club house should actually be driving interest up in checking it out or googling it and trying to figure out what this what is the fuss about if anything but you know i the other thing is i get there the what the thing that might have pissed them off is like okay the tweet storm was a little over the top you know maybe unnecessary but okay you know forget but then you know the next day i go on cnbc and do a two minute segment about it and the at that point you're just like who is this fucking guy i'm why is he on this crusade against club why is he going on tv talk shit and like my only response to that is hey if i get invited it on a cbc i'm just gonna say yes like i know that sounds a little so silly or selfish but like i don't know put yourself in by shoes so would you right want the opportunity to go at tv like you i think that's fine and i don't think i said anything that was harsh or untrue to them so you know anyways i i could see the being annoying i just got off the phone i just got off the phone with hubspot p people because we were talking about something and i was like you guys see sean on a yeah walk box or whatever it's called and they're were like yeah they're like you killed it and i'm like yeah it it it made me happy that these like up tight they're not up but i i i've i've peg them in my head yeah i've peg them in my head as being such that they've been on board with you like didn't do anything wrong but like you've made funny comp you're talking about kim kardashian butt and they were like it was awesome so i'm happy they're aboard so in this episode we're gonna talk about big cloud right but before we do that we have ryan bi he's on the line he's gonna come on in a second before we do that i wanted to bring two things with you the first thing do you remember a couple months ago when we talked about a carbon offsets credit card so i have to learn exactly how this works but we discussed this of about this idea of basically taking a mastercard and just putting slightly different branding and slightly different perks and building a business a company that we didn't know existed just raised two hundred and fifty million dollars today building an a carbon offset credit card called ass ratio i think it's called no i see see that's aspiration is the name yeah i just linked to it in our thing it's called the la socially conscious bank challenger aspiration launches a carbon offset credit card they raised two hundred and fifty million dollars from leonardo d cap or orlando bloom but then they have like actual real people like allan and c cool we we we we we called that one yeah actually i can't oh wait a minute have had they already raised i think they had already raised a hundred million as well right did we missed that ten months months ago i we yeah our ignorance of not knowing about them also still shows that we predicted it even if it all had already happened i actually am i'm investing in another i'll send it to you it's stealthy right now but when we can talk about we'll talk about it the founder started media company actually before this grew it huge sold it coming back to market with a credit similar similar idea a credit card where the rewards the perks and the branding are around a different part of your lifestyle and not like you know the generic which is like cash back or travel rewards travel points you know go stay in a marriott for a fourth night free and like what these carbon guys are doing i what from what it sounds like is that for somebody who is eco conscious you know specifically they would rather make their impact and have their rewards be something that is helping the environment than get that fourth night at the marriott and the this guy that i'm investing in he's got a different one do i know if i i don't if know personally but you know of the thing that they built before this and so you'll you'll like it so it's very similar idea can i send it to you and we we can we could do it and then we come in talk about it when he launches it i'm in let's just do that love i'll bring to you the stuff which type i right i showed you two can maybe you just join i'll we'll show each other's stuff and then let's just ask about it on here because i think people like that so far every time we've talked about investing people have liked it because you you get to hear about a new concept we're not just saying oh that's neat we're saying like no i put money into this that's a certain level of conviction and skin in the game and then also there's like the people who are interested on the investing side which is like so like how do you how do you invest what do you sign on what are the check sizes is what what type of returns do you do you expect what type of returns do you end up getting what were your big mistakes people like that type of shit and i'll say i guess i say no i put ten grand into tu can and then we did a syndicate where we cool put in a hundred fifty total which i kinda shocked to me i thought it was gonna be right fifty thousand but i did ten on that one of my own yeah that's cool yeah i think that's interesting one also deciding what's your what's your basic check gonna be like i like you decided a ten k the first few angel investments i did were basically i think twenty five k and then like randomly did like a fifty k one and then i just felt like oh shit i like you know that fifty k felt like a significant like a more significant bet than the twenty five k ones did to me the psychologically and so then there's like there's a math behind how do you want your portfolio structure and all that shit and then there's the psychology around you wanna bet an amount you wanna be betting an amount of money that will matter to you where you care and you'll track it and you'll do the work so not too little but also not too much where you become emotionally wrapped up in the outcome which you cannot control and is you know subject to all these different variables anyways i was gonna do and actually we could bring ryan on if ryan camera because he was telling me about who he was telling me about his buddy who i don't know if he wants to say name about what his process was and and we could talk about it in a second but we're gonna talk about the guy who hired an analyst ryan but my my philosophy right now with angel investing is i was gonna do maybe a quarter of a million to three hundred thousand dollars in the next twelve months and i was gonna do it in increments of ten to fifteen thousand dollars gotcha my oh my quick reaction to that is that that's too many deals a too small amount yeah you'd rather do i think because because just to do that like okay let's just do the math real quick so that means you're basically saying yes to thirty deals to say yes to thirty deals let's you know about how many deals do you think you'll need to well what percent hit rate do you have our acceptance rate so from a deal you see you either look at a pitch deck you need a founder you take a meeting to saying yes you don't want that to be like a hundred percent you don't want it to even be fifty percent probably what do you think just for you just off top your head spit football what percent of your deals you think you'll say yes to or do you want to be saying yes to thirty percent okay that's a i think that's still probably fairly high but okay let's say the phone off the phone call right okay so of all phone call people who make it to the phone call you wanna do thirty right so let's just let's just totally no i'm not saying i i'm not saying i wanna do i'm saying that yeah but i also think i say no to most everything that i'm email let's say let's just take the meetings part okay so that means you know for for doing thirty deals you're gonna need to take you're gonna need ninety at least of those one hour meetings to to get to that hit rate and so ninety one hour meetings that's ninety hours of like kinda like foundry meetings and so it just ends up being a lot and then now you have thirty deals to like add value to to help to make intros for to do all those things so it ends up being a lot of maintenance and a lot of vetting for very small ownership and i'll small check sizes but it is a good way to just see a bunch of shit so i like the strategy from that point of what do you think brian so i came on the show to talk about only two things of one of them is how my investment strategy where after twenty years of of making like i don't know like sixty investments i've now figured out exactly how to do what you're just what you're talking about you wanna hear the breakdown well can you first tell me the story do can you tell the story of of the person you know who what what they did well let me check can i explain this theory and then i'll tell and i'll tell yeah that plugs into it yeah so i think that the the filter for me is actually turned into i think there's an ic guy for investing so you know these this the ic guy concept i know you guys are both familiar with you know you choose your career based on what you love to do what you're good at doing and what there's a market need for right and at the intersection of those three things is like exactly the thing that you will you you know be best at and enjoy well my epiphany looking back on my like sixty or some odd like angel real estate investments is that the ones that generally perform well are the ones that are at the intersection of what i'm naturally curious about where i'm well network and where there's good fundamentals the so it's a similar like ad guy right concept where and so my main my main filter for for making investments now is is this something i'm actually sincerely fascinated by i'm regularly reading about and i'm well network in like so for example like i made some investments like you know in health care which i don't know shit about i'm not well network in and yeah the fundamentals are amazing like health care is only growing in america you know costs are rising whatever like but those have not been predictably looking back like those adopted in as good as say my investments in coinbase war parker like uber and like real estate investments where i was well network i was really interested for a long time and the fundamentals were good so what what do you guys make of that so i'm a framework guy i like anytime somebody has a a framework of ortho worthwhile process around how they do they do the only thing i would say is that for me whenever you see something growing really fast and you see that the fundamentals actually make sense it's very easy to get the other two to work so for example i can get really curious about something when i see something working extremely well i'm like wow what the hell is this and then i i can curiosity can follow it doesn't always have to lead for me and the second thing is well network what i found is that like the whole kind of like value add side of investing is sort of a shit you know i agree i don't whenever whenever we raise money i was like i don't wanna talk you ever again and unless i just having fun with you like we're just and and that's maybe i'm just bad at it but what i see and i and i do the same thing by the way when i talk to founders i'm like look here's what i've done in my life if any of that applies to what you're doing i've been through bunch of shit i've done a lot of these steps that you are about to do so i think i could probably help and secondly like i'm particularly good at these three things and by the way like i think your messaging sucks i think i'm good at messaging you know yeah you know i think i i can do the the pitch better than than you your deck is a little bit weak i can help you with your deck those are true in reality the amount of times that gets taken up and actually has some material impact it's just so low that i i'm not saying that i'm using my network to help the investments i agree i rarely i rarely helped the people invest with materially i'm saying i got in early to say run because the because of my network yeah and i i can't get in early like i tried getting in early you know to say like spacex like i wasn't well network then now i became better network around spacex later and i ended up investing later but like there's certain areas where i have an unfair advantage to get investments right and by the way we should introduce you so ryan you know you were part of summit you've been on the pod before many times i think built to me the company sold it was one of the cofounder of summit summit series they bought a out and did crazy shit and i would say you know one of the more well liked guests on the pod because has real business knowledge and also knows how to deliver it in a way that's entertaining to people so a good sense for entertainment so excited to have you on you have been infected by this mind virus can we just talk about it or do we need to like i feel like talking about months to bit cloud i think about big cloud can't even enter my brain right now so i honestly have canceled almost everything on my calendar because big cloud is so addictive and so much fun and so lucrative so far on paper that i just can't i can't talk about any of my wife wants to throw me out of the house right now like i'm so the good news here guys is that i signed up for bit cloud but i pretty much only signed up because ryan just called me it said i wanna talk to you about this sign up i i don't really know what it is so you guys could talk about it and i'll be the one asking the questions on behalf of the audience like like an idiot so let's let's see i take a stab because it's kinda new and foreign and most almost i was say ninety nine percent of the people listen this are not active on big big yet let's each take a stab at ryan and see if we can get to a simple explanation of what the heck it is so here's my here's my simple information sam bit cloud is basically like a stock market for people so me and you and ryan and anybody else we each have like a a little coin a price where you could buy some of our stock let's call it and so people are going on there and they're we're using bitcoin to buy our stock because they believe that we're gonna continue to get more popular and our reputation is gonna grow and that owning a piece of our limited coin the you know if i own ten percent of your your stock basically i feel good about that because i think in the next ten years you're gonna be getting even more popular so it's a way to bet on people and so that's the which week which we've talked about a lot we love this we we've we've looked at not like what we talked about before which is like is it for income sharing is it for x is it for y it for z right now it's literally for nothing and so the the way reason this is cool right now is because nobody knows who's behind it they're kind of like being stealthy about it people know but nobody has publicly out in who's who's behind it i do know the name of the p behind it but i know people who know the person people i trust say they know who it is and they because i asked they they they were like y on buying your coin are you gonna are you gonna actually use big bitlocker or not i was well i don't know it's just like a scam it kinda looks scam me to me and they were like yeah i thought so too because it's kind of the the the secretive way that they're going about it but actually i know the founders they're like legit people from the tech scene they like kinda have a reputation in in our circles and a a bunch of the big name tier one vcs are involved in it now that doesn't mean it's not gonna fail it doesn't mean it's not a like maybe something unethical was gonna happen or that's gonna get hacked or who knows any any number of bad things can happen but it's not random guy and you know not nigerian prince it's kind of the the the main thing that that i've heard now you you guys you're forgetting a major part here which is if you go to bit it's bit clout c l l u t dot com you can't actually do don't have a password it's all you need a password so you guys are forget right now and you have to have this you know similar to club house and super human like you know this is one of the techniques in silicon valley now to build hype and get early adopters to want in is to not let them in and then make it so can only get in if they have the secret secret codes so okay right that was my my attempt what would you change about would you describe differently yeah no i think you nailed it i mean it's a social currency platform i think you put it more simply you can bet on people so like take sam so i called sam last night i'm like dude what the heck are you doing how are you not on big cloud yet do you need to get on here you need to create your profile so he goes on he creates his profile i put in two thousand dollars into into this at the santa park on big cloud i then you know i i then watched it overnight and when i woke up this morning i had already made like five six thousand dollars off the what and so yeah and so sam here's the one so let's ryan let's walk through me and sam's coin can you just pull actually the site down which which is sort of problematic besides that so so that's a that's a bit of an issue that'll come back up but it's getting hammered with traffic i think so last i last you saw ryan what was my coin trading for and do you remember my market cap so i don't i'm so it's so annoying that the sites down because i was hoping to have it ready but i wanna say you you were pretty legit first off i just wanna say like you're you're you were trading at a at a relatively high number relative to like your fame and like your twitter handle you were which which i what i've noticed is people who are known in the crypto world disproportionately are doing well on the platform so like like i bet yesterday on chuck norris and because because part of my strategy is to buy people who are trading at a cheap number relative to like the following they app on twitter or instagram and like chuck norris was trading at like two hundred dollars but know he's got a huge like he's a big following he's obviously pretty famous even though he's like you know a a c celebrity where but i don't get any of that what you do no so you so you can set whatever percentage you want to take of the of the coin that people invest in so the default is ten percent so if i buy like a thousand dollars worth of sam par i believe the way the math works is you'll take ten percent of that in coin and so what's cool about that is like as you become more famous as you build up a reputation and as you keep your reputation you know good in the public eye like in theory your big cloud market cap will grow and you'll take ten percent of that as now what i've seen some people do who have money like us sam is they they they set their percentage down at zero and set of ten percent which is the default because they don't wanna discourage people from buying their their coin and then they just buy their own coin and then they bet on themselves which is as okay i saw this a few days ago and i saw oh wow some people have bought like i think somebody had bought ten thousand dollars worth of my coin and basically i was trading for almost two thousand dollars per coin and my my own holdings that they kind of like give you through your i don't know if it's like a founder reward or like a a ten percent vague you hit on every buy or something like that my own holdings if i claimed my account i had sixty thousand dollars worth of my coin ready for me so the the the genius of their model is this but you had six my own coin what i what they basically what i had gotten from the the way that the site works if i do if i verified my account so here's how it works this this is the genius the growth hack that they have which is very very smart and so what they do is they pre made all of our accounts they they took the top fifteen thousand twitter accounts i think and they made profiles for all of them they make coins for all of them immediately and then they let some people in with bitcoin to go buy up whoever they wanted so people start buying coins and of course every time you buy coin the default is a ten percent if five buy a hundred coins of yours ten of those coins go to you and ninety come to me so there's like a like the the brokerage fee goes to the crater themselves so what this did was you're elon musk you're naval you're you're you know on a smaller scale us and you you go on the site and right now it basically says cool if you log in and verify that you are you you're you are sean on twitter you get to claim your coins your coins are sitting in account so i have a sixty like last time i checked this was a few days ago but before several friends bought my coin so i might have more now i had a fifty three thousand dollar bounty just waiting for me all i had to do was connect it to my twitter account and tweet out hey i'm on big cloud you know like come by my coin or whatever if i did if i know you do that i at the time i didn't know is this legit i promoting a scam and so i went did some background checks to ask a few people who i knew were buying my coin it said what you know is this real it's not like ryan you know and others and so and so that's how simple it so so mechanism right now i have cornered the the sam park market if you look at sam park i par his biggest holder and and i plan to buy more santa parks as soon as the site comes back guys listen it wasn't like it wasn't i can't tell you you what's the like the red pill blue pill for what's the what's the what's the pill that you take what your that bread is completely changed they can't go back okay maybe i'm just like a blue pill guy here but like it wasn't that long ago that i was so poor that i would put two pieces of pizza in a one whole food box and so i could just like only paper one or where i would like eat half the food out of my container before i weighed it like it wasn't that long ago that i was that poor where where i where where i was stealing food from the grocery store now we're talking about sean just logging and being like oh beef five fifty thousand dollars in my account yet does this stop freak you out this kind freaks me out no it does not freak me out at all i think it's awesome that i could log in and get through two thousand dollars i think that's now okay here's some of the criticisms right and this is where sam your bullshit detector is about to like you know fly around the room you're about to raise your eyebrows all the way to the moon when you hear this which is that you could transfer money in and you could buy coins but there's no withdrawals right now you can i could go in and verify i could claim my fifty thousand dollars what i can't do and put that in my bank account that's a feature that is not available and not built it now they are gonna do it the the main thing for them is that they say oh we're building it it's not ready yet in reality i my my theory is basically if you allow people to immediately come in grab a hundred k grab fifty if i can come in and grab fifty k withdraw it out of the system it's gonna kinda crash the network and it's not gonna like the whole system kinda of fails there's this there's theory about sort of you know like one of the reason bitcoin is so valuable is because the central philosophy of the religious bitcoin holders is to is to hold the coin if you're selling out of it the price drops and so what they want right now is for everybody to hold their hold coins so that the network can get big enough get enough strength and then it once it's bigger and more popular you can add liquidity and people can trade it to now and it won't just completely crash the system so do we just have so much money going around right now that we have to invent okay so so here's so let me explain to you because i also was like what the hell is this and then i was set the one pager and i wanna actually read to you guys the one pager pdf this might be a little boring yeah to meet a pdf but honestly when i read this so i talked ryan i don't know like forty minutes ago on the phone before this podcast i was like y okay we're coming on i'm excited about bit clock i heard a little bit about it but i haven't had time to look at it it just had a kid like i haven't had a chance to go and kicked the tires and he was like dude this is like the most you right you said this right you're this is the most addictive thing since for early facebook for you craziest thing i i've i i'm like all my friends have been up all night like one one's in a hell skiing another one is in utah like we're all texting all night hey who's buying chuck norris has anyone figured out like oh i just ten x on gwyneth like a number i never i remembered with my friends like guys who worked for me at summit who have like maybe fifty thousand dollars saved have put in like a quarter of their net worth and in the last like four or five days of five to ten x their month like but they can't get anything out they can't get it figured it out but i i contacted the founder of a pretty major like crypto hedge fund and he assured me that that they've bet quite a lot on this and that he's confident that they will there will be a way out the founder also said that eventually there'll be an exchange you know where you could sell it so it's just saying thing i've seen so far let give you both how do i make sam par the game well first of all calling it games stock is perfect that's alright y'all already meme and yourself hey stop say yeah whatever so okay so here's the okay because when we were talking on the phone ryan i was like so you're buying my coin great what what's the reason why would you want my coin what does that do for you like i get that if i get more popular in theory my coin could get more popular but that assumes more people will wanna buy it why would they wanna buy it what are they getting out of this it's like well then they think you're gonna get even more popular than the next person will wanna buy right so there's definitely like a greater full theory that underlies this whole thing which is that i'm buying it today because i think somebody else gonna come by this tomorrow either because the creator i'm buying is gonna get more popular or bit cloud is gonna get more popular in reality right now both are gonna happen and and and so so i think it's actually good bet even if you know going in that this is greater full theory this is i'm i'm looking at a pass this to the next guy and make a lot of money before the music stops so i that's the skeptical way of looking at it now let me tell you the like why this actually might be a thing long term and i'm gonna read to you from the pdf what they say this is okay so here's so sam i'm gonna read read this to you and you just tell me paragraph my paragraph is your belief going up or down okay where did you find this i just googled big big cloud yeah thanks to you it's a white paper going where are you guys getting this we're connected on the inside not connected enough to know who's actually doing this but connected enough to know the people who know the people alright so big cloud is a new type of social network that lets you speculate on people and their posts with real money as built on a blockchain okay cool then it goes to fully open source project there's no company behind it just coins and code so then it says let me just skip to the part about creator coins what are creator coins everyone has a coin every profile on the platform gets its own coin that you can buy and sell these are crater coins you get one you you get it you can have your own credit coins just by creating a profile they already pre created a whole bunch of profiles because you know i didn't do it but my my my creative funding exists then i had to make mine then it says you could buy your favorite person's coin to buy someone else's to buy someone's coin you just go to the profile you click buy and for the top fifteen thousand influencers on twitter it's preloaded into the platform okay cool so now and then it says tweet to claim profile the owner of a profile can claim their profile by tweeting out their public key this will give them full access to their account as well as the percentage of their founder rewards which is what that's what i'll talking about my fifty k that's sitting there for me that's my founder reward for claiming my account now the genius of it is by me tweeting out like i have a big incentive to tweet this out right because i get access to my fifty thousand dollars so they're basically kinda like paying me fifty thousand dollars to tweet out about big top and if enough of the and the bigger you are the bigger your reward and so they're gonna get a lot of big people to tweet this thing out which is gonna create this like the enormous or hype cycle okay so then it says what are creator coins useful for so this is where it starts to become interesting he goes there's a new asset class that's tied to the reputation of an individuals for example let's say elon musk succeed in put it being the first person to land land on mars put a person to mars his coin price should theoretically go up because he will be rolling renowned for it and if in contrast he makes a racial slow doing a press conference his coin price should go down because his reputation takes a hit his popularity goes down so you as a trader can make money by buying and selling the ups and downs of speculating on a person's future popularity okay so then it says state what could you use the coins for so today it's just about buy and sell but in the future let's say that you know right now for example i think craig cl is my biggest coin holder he has like know ten fifteen thousand dollars of my coin ryan's got ryan how much am coin do you got worth i think i bought like three four thousand dollars thousand dollars so what can i do to reward the people who own my coins so that more people wanna buy my coin so one is a stakeholder meeting i don't so you could basically say okay i'm gonna do an ama or a q and a for anybody who owns over you know a hundred of my coins at whatever so what do you tell them like hey everyone i wanted to give you an update on the next quarter i'm thinking that i'm not gonna saying just racist this but i am gonna do that i am gonna film someone committing right side where's your not i make my thing you're like taking policy report about your own popularity you're saying okay for my super fans who want access to me you want more access like let's say you know like for example and our friend andrew wilkinson has done a thing where he says cool buy this expensive thing for charity and you get to do a lunch with me or you get to join this ama q and a exclusively with me and twenty five people who pay the five grand to this all the proceeds go to charity it's that same idea if people want to do a want to ask you a question or whatever so here's a simpler version right that's like you get to attend a private meeting for people who own x amount of my coin the other way is to say look i get a bunch of spam in my inbox every day people email me people dm me and literally this is true there's so many of those that i don't respond to ninety percent of them and unfortunately some of the good ones just get mixed up in all the random junk that people send me so here's the thing i have an inbox the inbox is a has a contract that basically says anybody who if you wanna message me it costs you five coins and my coin has a real price so you you can you can do that by either having a huge amount of my coin or going and buying some in order to message me and i will respond to everybody who rep who sends me this paid message through this channel right so now i can have an inbox that has a price with it or i can prioritize it based on sort this by my biggest coin holders because those are my vip i wanna talk to them first i wanna give them replies first another another idea they have sponsored post so i can have an inbox that basically says you can pay me you could you could buy a certain amount of my coin and i'll re tweet your thing and so it's it's just a simple like you don't need an essential a middle man agency to set up like these pay promotion deals it's just i just set a price or people just bid a price and i just look at it and i say okay i'll take a hundred coins a hundred of my own coin for posting this thing i don't mind i actually like the thing you you told me post and then the last one like there's an only fan version of this where cool if you have this if you pay this much coin of my coin per month you get exclusive content the last one is what they call money likes so let's say like let's reimagine the like button so instead of just being able to smash like on everything but say that it costs a tiny amount of coin to like something so for me putting out a good post like let's say that club house thing i did that went viral today all i got was fame i didn't make any money off the fact that seven million people saw that thing twitter made money but i didn't make any money so in this case if i put out great content that goes viral like my my club house thing then every person who's hitting the like could be basically get buying you in order to like they're buying a micro amount of my own coin and so i earn for posting good content in that way and by the by that person buying my coin by hitting like they're actually sort of investing in in me right because they hit the like let's say it costs one sean coin to do it they bought one sean coin they hit the like button because they like my content now let's say i keep getting more popular they still own that coin so are both of us have a incentive to do that those are some of the ideas what do you think where where i am right now is like it's there's one of three things happening one either my iq is just low enough that i can't keep up with you guys when you discuss this two i'm just out of touch and like is happening where like when my wife started getting a job at facebook or her dad was like why do you need why do they need all these people just a web it's just a website like am i am i getting am i getting out of touch or three this is bullshit and i'm right well can i can i give you a simpler use case so right now i'm you know i've been doing executive coaching i think as you guys know and i've been i'm coaching the the founder ceo morning brew and i think we should pick and austin reef and alex lieberman in morning room again sit the sam at the sam par i'm big cloud i i am going to buy coin in all of them and let's see who can be become the bigger market cap in the next thirty days but i don't want to do that like i wouldn't it be better if i just spent time and like making money on shit that i own in the entirety of but these this is like i thought these guys would like like your ne this is a newsletter war between the hustle and the morning the five i catch up dude i've won like i like like i i have everything i need i've i've i have i've won my game as far as i can tell austin is crushing you on big cloud in terms of his market cap there you go now i see the now this competitive juices is starting to flow he's like i don't care but if you're saying he's crushing me at a game i care about i start to care about the game a little bit no i have the game i care about it's my bank account and what time i morning when i can ask the rest of my days your pop no that's not my big account what how many how do you buy on your coin right you're gonna will i will i be able to catch this say there's your scenario one these guys never build a way to cash out this whole thing is a scam and all the smart people that are involved in it are wrong cool there is a percentage chance that that is true i don't know what that percentage might be one percent might be fifty percent let's let's just take that off the table because if that's true then yeah there's no discussion it's stupid and useless if if if you're buy if you can only buy in but never sell out like you know what what is this you know robinhood hood like you can't you can't do that so here's the the the other side of it let's say it is liquid where you can trade some of your coins for actual cash if you want it or bitcoin if you want it but people are gonna be betting on hey this podcast is gonna keep getting more popular sam gonna keep getting more popular he's gonna keep doing more things i've seen is twitter account growing he posts awesome content i wanna get on on the graham ground floor of sam and they start buying your coin because they wanna hold a piece of the sam par popularity like cloud score basically and they're they believe more people are gonna buy so now the more people do start buying it and your stock goes up your stock goes up because you sold the hustle and then this podcast hits number one and the charts and more people hear about it and then we do some viral thing and then that goes viral you get more popular there now what sean do you actually want this yeah you actually want yes i do betting i want no no i'll say something i like about it is i've always kind of tried to be an early adopter of certain things right that i was excited and and like naturally curious about and i would tell all my friends but i had no way of like riding the wave with the person i was pop i would go i'd be like hey you really check out this awesome musician and then they would just get really famous and like they would get way richer and in fact i often couldn't even talk to them anymore because they became too big a deal to even you know return my calls i'm like i would have liked to have been like on the ride with that like finance be like sam i met you before you started the hustle right and i was like this guys guy's is the shit this guy you know totally switched on he's he's dynamic dude okay if you could if i could just bought stock in you and not bet on like for example i had the opportunity to invest in the hustle the media company i like well i don't know if this is gonna be like the humongous billion dollar company or what i don't know if this fits my profile whatever i don't know about media but i was bet i was believing in you the whole time and if i could if i could have just bought sam and own sam for twenty five years that's something i wanna do i think that you are gonna become a hit and you're already on your way to becoming a hit and if i could have done that from the beginning or like you know we've talked about the founders of calm i was buddies with them early on now calm is so big that i feel guilty even hitting them up to go hang out with them because i'm like god they just everybody wants their time they're busy with their you know huge company what am i gonna you do i really wanna go hang with them now so know i'm a fan from a far now but at the time if you said that you can buy alex too and you can buy michael act smith you could buy their their their coins i would i would bet in all my friends coins right i and i do with my time but i don't ever get to benefit financially from spotting future stars today i that was a good speech i think that i'm a little bit on board now dude i filmed the exact same there's so many entrepreneurs including the guys at come that i met through summit early on and for whatever reason i didn't persist and getting in it didn't get the ability to invest in their company you know they it was mentioned i i i didn't i didn't like you know i missed the email a friend that i heard about it i wasn't at the right event when they were raising i met him three months earlier or whatever now i can actually bet on these people it's it's i i don't know wall this is why there's two there's two huge problems is the fact that you've just put tens of thousand dollars of his website and you get you can't get the dampening to fucking turn off this right now this entire podcast this podcast has been on for forty five minutes and it's it's says big big cloud is under brief maintenance all funds are safe thing by the way for your support back screen with epics yeah it's like ariel fourteen size font yeah it looks like a terrorist or i i remember when facebook first came to my college and i was like we were one of the first colleges and i remember like calling those it was really fun that this is the first time i felt like that in a long time that's why i wanted to come on the show and talk of it but there's two major differences which is you didn't have money on facebook and two you you knew a little bit about the background and who made it we're looking at this anonymous thing that isn't working and you have money on it that's a little nerve wrecking and also you can't even get your money back out if you wanted otherwise sam do you know any of my like angel investments but is like i had no clue someone was like you should try like this guy said from this and then you should throw fifty days thing and i was like what's the least i could do could i do ten k okay cool here's ten k and you know so over i think now twenty five of those or so i've gone to zero but a few of them pops so i i'm looking at this like an angel investment right like i'm looking at this as like one in ten but i get very i'll do it i'll do it but i'm not gonna like i think that people like youtube need someone to criticize you because like just everything on paper that we're doing here it just like this sounds like a a horrible total scam and i think you should be optimistic about it and i'll definitely dabble in it so here's the other thing right like let's let's say you you said something earlier like facebook didn't have money in it like i think you meant i think what you meant was you didn't have to put in tons of money to bet in facebook you could just using the thing and it's kind of like you a low low risk like brian just said that that his normal young friends a quarter life saving but you know yellow know so i so okay so so here's the the part that i think is exciting and a lot of people have talked about this this is the first attempt that it actually clicked with me and i'm like oh this might actually work so there's a whole bunch of people that since crypto came out that we're like oh my god we need to take the social networks and we need to convert them into crypto networks basically what we need is why don't like why does facebook and twitter and instagram why do they make all the money and we do all the work we make the content we like you to we we put our attention and our time into viewing the content viewing the ads and advertisers spend all the money and they don't you know they they're hoping to make a return on those side but the users who do all the work to on these user generated content platforms reap only social value no financial value and so a whole bunch of attempts for me people tried to make steam it which was like reddit but like instead of the karma being kinda of funny money it was like real money you know type of thing but never took off and but the the fundamental always did make sense which was if you did get on a platform early and you were one of the people to help make it big why don't you ever get any reward for them if you're one of the first uber drivers first airbnb hosts first power users on instagram you know like what is it worth for those people that are on club house today that are making content you know freaking twenty four seven and trying to make club house successful and they're they're not the investor in club house it's you know h and like easy and a kevin heart and shit and so so easy he's not an investor but we'll we'll be full possible yeah because he's no for he's dead one about this what you're saying is when i got into some of these in you know awesome investments like uber i couldn't share them with anybody i call my mom and be like you were oh this sorry but i i can't even get you i couldn't get you in you know and now it's like i feel excited wanted to call on the show and like share it with the listeners and like share them with trends because i was like shit everybody as soon as i get this password and as soon as the sites back up like we can all actually we're like this as as soon as the site works on and as soon as they open it and as soon as withdrawals happen this is totally gonna be sweet but until those three five fundamentals work this is garbage as sam but rightfully pointing out the obvious no no that's it i it's very risky right now it's very early days but we need to talk about the investment strategy because the next thing is once you get on to become addicted and you're like what is the strategy and i have like five strategies yes well can can can we talk about your friend who can can we he's talking about cutting best strategy by the way i know i know but can we talk about this because i think it's say i the name names but because can i say details of the story right i'm going to so you had a a friend who sold a business and it was amongst like your everyday person massive home run but he the amount of money that he made was not enough that you would go and do what he did and he hired to full time people to invest his money yeah and we're talking like potentially like single digit millions of dollars which again is a lot of money but not enough to like have two people on staff full time to invest your money and that's what he did and ryan said that it ended up being a massive success even though you thought it was a stupid stupid idea and it totally worked yeah i mean the thing that blew my mind is a friend of mine made a similar amount of money to the money i made selling my media company and i i did not think i had nearly enough money to build what you know was called like a family office right like i i need it i'd most hire our wealth manager i'll pay them like a half a point of the money on our management they'll invest my money in stock and whatnot and my friend instead hire two hedge fund guys and analysts and like a full like a real like a associate vice president like a senior guy at like a hedge fund and is paying them like you know i don't know like a half a million collectively in salary a year which is like a very high percentage of his money and and giving them as well carried interest and upside and i at the time this was in twenty sixteen i thought that's the craziest thing i've ever heard for world's small scan office and what what he now he what was smart is he had a very good like kinda similar to us he had he had a good network and he didn't have time to under write all the deals that would come to him he didn't have time to run a financial model or call people and dig you know kick the tires and make sure that you know the thing was real and that was a good investment but he had a lot of flow like we do and so i don't have time to look at most of my because i don't have an analysts and i don't have the time myself because i put my own time into my business right so i thought what was crazy is he did that and he's up like a lot like i don't know exactly how much but like let's just say his his big cloud investments are like a hundred month you know so so so you what what is the typical size of a family office what amount of wealth does an individual need to where you you typically they'll be fifty million themselves hundreds hundred definitely in like the i think i that f fifty you split it with another family i i worked at gp jpmorgan private banking in college as an intern which at the time was the largest wealth management organization and and they had billionaires as clients who did not have family offices they hired jpmorgan to be their family office but the really big clients at the firm with someone some of them would also have family or would leave the firm to form it and so back then this is back in like two thousand for like i don't think you had a family office unless i through like one of the top fifty richest people in the world it was my recollection at the time and then and then and then key these ideas of multi family offices where people share billionaire share our family office and now obviously things have become much more like i think there's more and more of this going on and so i think people are forming family offices and maybe have i thought a couple hundred million a hundred million but what was amazing about my friend is that you know this is somebody had more like low eight figures and had essentially formed a family office yeah i like the idea of the shared family office by the way that makes a lot of sense to me i'm surprised that doesn't happen more at like every level of wealth it does we could be yeah there's like shared family off i mean i think that like once you get into like the forty fifty million range it makes sense to like do like three or four people together but yeah for making less than twenty which is still a significant amount of money the idea of hiring a full time staff is kinda about land and that's kinda of cool i similar set up i i'm lucky that like the business i have make enough income where you know it's cool like this is it's a business expense right it's basically there's a lot of tax i would otherwise be paying and so instead of paying tax i actually get this individual to actually grow the thing and and so that was my logic but that might be sort of silly logic but it's definitely more than what most people will do what do you think that it is it core i'm working if as far as i'm concerned you know i think it's a fair trader by the i i can be more i mean investing in talent is just always pays off if you're if you're like willing to iterate and try experiment and you're you have hustle and your your work hard in my experience so i i love it i i i i hired a a bookkeeping firm in europe and they've created my books for my coaching business for you know renting my home for all of my investments and for my personal and then i have like an executive assistant who you know for reusable bunch of my time and i've been thinking about hiring somebody just like manage my investments with me which is part of why i was mentioning this to sam the other day that my friend had this great success you know doing this and i think you what it makes all the more sense for you sean you know because you're obviously your you're also operating labor intensive businesses like where you have to like you know create things put them online like e commerce and that mean that makes a lot of people i just think it's like i think it's a little nutty to do some of this because if you just kinda let your money sit like it's gonna grow pretty good doing boring as shit and the question is is is doing all this extra stuff actually gonna work out if you do it for three decades you know what what will you perform better doing and sure sean you're crushing it now or i i think i bet you are because bitcoin is growing and the economy is booming but do you think that over the next thirty years that what do you think is gonna be better for you you know i i think it's true that most people will fail to just beat the passive index when you account for fees that's like been proven out but also you know most people is not all people so i think there is you know maybe having the network that we have in silicon valley is actually significant enough of an edge where this where this works for me i didn't think about it like an invest i need somebody to do my manage my money if it was just matter my money i would not i definitely wouldn't pay somebody of in house to do it for me it was like cool i wanna be you know creating content i wanna be running this angel fund but i don't wanna be taking all these meetings and i don't wanna be you know like i'll be in a meeting you know i'll be in a business meeting and then my newsletter will go out and people will like look at their phone and be like how do did you what is that and i'm like oh yeah like i don't write everything i don't send all this stuff i don't do the formatting i don't do all the research like i have somebody i really trust and we work together on it and i'm more the editor than the author and and and that's like the case for a lot of the different things i do when when i was raising the rolling fund i didn't have time to go raise all the money i tweeted shit out and then a bunch of things came inbound and then my guy basically like took those inbound and turned them into cash in the bank and i was like this is magic and he does that every week he goes through my dms and he's just like hey he gives me an excel sheet that says like for example for this club ops one it was insane it was like malcolm glad will follows you now this guy follows you now this guy follows you now i'm a here's some dms i have as like something to say to them or they said this i'm thinking about replying this just say yes or no and i just say yes or no and then he does all of right and it's like that is being at two places at once i'm down to pay for that i'm not really personally i don't think you makes sense for me to pay just for investment adviser or serve of a wealth manager from where i'm at well unless bothered than ryan oh yeah i guess guy i think if you keep iterating on the concept you'll find that it's actually extremely lucrative to hire even into this this role because you're you're rolling fun for instance so imagine if you had someone just full time focusing on growing the the sean investment world i i do like that because sam so one thing i think you're missing out on is that it's not just investing your capital it's the ability for you to raise special purpose vehicles and syndicate and so i did i did i did my first one yesterday i raised a hundred and fifty thousand dollars okay you carried interest on that yeah okay so imagine if you had someone full time spinning up more of those so that you were getting twenty percent you know carried interest in you know instead of one deal a month what if we're doing ten deals a month but you would need you would need like some infrastructure around that yeah one one of the coolest example that i think i think doing it though for investing is actually a little silly i mean it's not silly it's just it's hard because a lot of these angel investments won't pay money for eight years so what are you gonna like flip the bill early on so i actually think what sean's is doing is actually the right move because he if someone's working on other income generating things earlier like i think they're in westminster well well you just need to structure them differently yeah end two and twenty so the two percent and a and a hedge fund venture fund or private equity fund pays for your overhead it pays for investment sean are you doing two percent i took zero percent management fee because i didn't know if anyone really wanna invest in the rolling funds i was like okay well how do i how do differentiate from the other five people that are like me they're like an entrepreneur who was had an exit has done some angel investing and just spun up a rolling fund because i was i think in the first ten rolling funds i think i was one of the first ten maybe twenty and so i knew there's gonna be like a hundred more of these in the next quarter how do i like just quickly raise this amount and differentiate myself and said well i hate fucking fees i hate fees all the time so i was like i'm just gonna take no fees i have enough income coming in from other places that like i'll do this and i have a i have two full time people that basically or not full time i say that i have two people dead are dedicated one is this guy rom who you've probably seen on twitter he's little smart guy he he himself owns a really successful big business manny as a podcast and he's like an investor himself and i basically said went to college with me i said hey i need somebody to kinda manage my fund and take a bunch of these meetings because i don't have a ton of time and do you wanna do it like we're gonna invest in twenty five thirty companies a year you know so like if you want that experience while you're running your company before you eventually sell your company like let's do this and he's like harbor mckinsey you know he's a former lawyer like he's a super sharp guy and then i have this other guy who's a scout that basically he works at on deck and he went through yc and he referred himself i think twenty companies into this yc batch so he's like boots on the ground sees everything before it even gets into yc and so those guys basically are doing my rolling funds you one guy does the scouting the other guy does the vetting and then i basically am doing the the you know the final meetings with the founders and making the final decisions on a lot of those and so that's been a pretty sweet way to do this investing and now we're doing four million dollars a year of start investing you know that's i i was doing probably i don't know two hundred thousand dollars a year before that so you know i was able to get massive leverage front by doing this and i just i agreed to split the carry with these guys because i'm i've taking no management fees so i said and you get a piece of my carry instead of me paying you a huge salary right you just how normal funds start they often start with a little to no management fees in order to incentivize people to invest and then as they mature and grow reputation they start to charge management fees which is which is by the way a service to the investor because they don't want you to be under staff and under under infrastructure like a really a really extreme where where this goes at the most extreme when i worked at carly i was pretty pretty fun example of this is david rubin the the c cofounder and the lead fundraiser at carly had a full time equity analyst who would you know graduated from like yale or princeton who worked at merrill lynch who if he would hire and he would go through these i think every few years all they would do all day is do research so that when he would speak on a podcast he would sound extremely intelligent because he knew everything that that he need to know about what's happening in china or dubai whatever the whatever the topic of the day was because you got a team of people like you know you you know small little like crew working on this who were actually trained equity research analysts so you can imagine all the things you could invest in like people who make you know make sure that your research for your podcast for example which that that i know sean has that and we have that or we're getting a lot more of that but here all of these investments are going to make your big cloud go up tying a bath so right let's let's finish up the big cloud thing so you have put in tens of thousands of dollars big cloud i believe and you are what is the strat you're using right are you're looking for undervalued basically like sam you said okay sean and sam about similar twitter following sean's coin is more expensive right now so i'm gonna buy a ton of sam and also they're in the same vehicle of my first million so like you know the i'm you know there's a good chance they'll they'll they'll grow together so you saw sam as an undervalued asset is that the core thing you're doing basically just looking for the undervalued yeah so so there's two main investment strategies and then there's multiple investment strategies under the second one so the first one is you just buy big cloud and you just bet on the whole platform and i'm probably gonna keep like sixty percent of my money just in big cloud and then once you own big cloud you can buy you can buy creator coins right creator coins are like the sam coin the sean's coin within that strategy i have a few strategies so one is i buy undervalued people like the sam who until yesterday was valued at zero and i and i bet that he's gonna go up right and then there's people i've also bought something elon musk and some sham off and some of the people who are already training at really high numbers because i just think is the blue chip people are gonna go to the to the fans the fan of bit clap basically right yeah yeah that looks like buying like you know it's like buying like yeah like walmart you know is buying like you know up or naval oh so and know i'm looking like i'm telling you chuck norris you watch chuck norris is gonna go up like tony choices are undervalued the games stop and now it's perfect to you and chuck the norris is the game stop once we're gonna pump it up that bitch and awesome austin re ad morning bro i think he's gonna go way and he's gonna do better than sam because sam's kinda of being a worse about big class from up i i think it's true i am being a little bit of a voice i just can't talk on it so like so saying did you ever see back did you see this thing they turned out a couple years ago by ce chan called famous or it was also called stolen because there was two there's two versions of it it was called stolen initially and then that was a little bit too controversial and they ended up having to change anything name of the famous and then even that cut due controversial they just had the whole app got taken down it was extremely viral so what what stolen and famous were was basically people started tweeting out one day just stole at sean vp just stole at the same park oh the stole account and the stolen account had like the funniest is by i don't remember what it was but it was just like you know it wasn't trying to explain what it was it was like just like super low key about the whole thing and so what it was was you could just go and if you placed the top bid it was like you you have the hot potato like you owned that person because you made the winning bid and so it was an auction of people on twitter and so you could go and you could buy and neville all you could buy ryan hoover you could buy all these people for someone amount of money and then that would be like the the winning bed somebody had to top you in order to take it and and so it went super viral super quickly in the kinda like product tech silicon valley bubble and then i guess they didn't like the connotation of stolen so then they rebranded as famous a f and so famous a f started working and then it went so viral that it was going into schools and like bullying was happening because people were just stealing like classmates and then like dumping them or something like that i don't know what it was but like some teacher came out was like or some mom came out was like dude my kid is getting bullied via stole via famous and this is like messed up and an apple took it off the app store because they were like what is this bullying app and so and so that was the the and so so si who's the the guy behind it he made sandbox vr and he's you know doing runway he anyway yeah yeah cool new startup and so this guy's this guy's a gangster and so he he built these games and so now every time i see big cloud and by the way anytime anybody's sees big cloud that no seeking they're like oh this is it he's like dude it right now like to stop saying to me like please to stop sending me one more if fucking person sends me a big cloud link you know but it'll lose my mind and so this has happened before and it didn't go viral before i think there's a very good chance that this goes viral again it has two kinda core things going against it one is it's it looks a little bit shady and it come across a little bit shady so far and you have to have a password to get in so which is what which is one of the reasons i like the the friction of the password is one one major friction right and that's why it's not going viral right now it's going viral within a small circle but not like super viral because it's not open to everybody yet and then the second thing is you have to you have to transfer in bitcoin in order to use it and so that already limits it right there's like just very few people who even own bitcoin so you know that's a big big gate in the way of this thing going crazy but everything else i think is it is engineered it is pro from a product design perspective this is designed brilliantly and this will grow the way that it's designed well i what and the better party yesterday trying to teach my mom and my sister how to create coinbase based accounts transfer been buy bitcoin transfer bitcoin into big bitcoin sean do you think that angel investing like is this gonna be what's the feature of sean prairie i mean do you think that this is gonna be your time job angel investing is a way to for me it's like just dipping a net into a stream of flowing water with a bunch of fish inside i'm not taking a boat out spending you know an afternoon out in the water fishing and trying to catch something is this in front of my house there's this stream with fish going through and if i just put a net in i can catch some great fish that's what angel vest is for me and that's what it's been basically for last i don't know six seven years where my own friends my own personal network or things that come inbound through getting more popular on twitter and podcast podcasts it leads you to some opportunities people want you in their deals and you get to see deals early and before i used to sit on the sideline and i watched a bunch of those companies get big and then i started you know i asked a rich friend hey can if if i give you a good deal that you invest can i get a piece of the carry saying yeah that's how i got into lambda school which is already kinda like a big winner and then listen soon as i did i like man instead of a big care like instead of getting a piece of this guy's carrie why can't i just do this myself so as i got a little more money i started doing it myself and then with the rolling fund that just lets me do it on steroids where i could just do more and so what percentage of your net well could let's be you can answer but let's just say that you invest four million dollars a year in eight years how much income do you think you're gonna do you think you're gonna make an additional two hundred think you're gonna make two grand yourself do you think you're gonna so a a good fund is gonna like let's say three x it's money over the kind of like seven to ten year period great will be you know five x or more and like if you're if you count if you caught a uber if you caught a coin base you know you're laughing you're you're your your returns are gonna be super skewed just by this one company that's now worth tens to billion but let's assume for this conversation let's assume you're only so let's take the first let's take let's say three x let's take the most cons like the most conservative version of winning right is i triple the money so over the next three years i'm gonna deploy twelve million dollars let's say a three x that money that's thirty six million dollars that gets that comes back into the fund after returning the money so so a total of one a forty eight million dollars and so on the thirty sixth that's the profit i get to keep twenty percent of the carry right so that's about seven million dollars ish and is my mental math right you know roughly seven roughly seven million dollars and that's seven million dollars over a let's call it eight eight to ten year time span it's not the biggest like that's something that's why i don't go all in on is because i could make way more money building a business in that same amount of time so if find well in seven so but that's a recap that's you're how much in sub you say seven million my yeah that's a significant amount of money that's a million dollars a year so you're just thinking this will make you a million dollars a year for seven years starting in seven years no i think it's like kind of like a lump sum that you get in seven years more more like it i get nothing for for seven years got and then as these companies as the as many of them die and some of them do okay then a few winners emerge it eventually you reach a steady state where you keep going and you are making a million and yeah we're really gets interesting is where you scale and you start doing you know twenty million or fifty million a a hundred million a year and know eventually that's why you could see yourself hiring investment professionals you could have a whole fund have has any years paid out right yeah yeah but i i but i think there's another important point is it's not just about money it's about well being as i'm always saying on the show like it it's about like what investing has done for me is it's been a a vehicle for learning and for connecting the really interesting people and for like getting to like kind of like go on these fun ventures where i'm like learning about like the latest things in crypto or i've the latest things in e commerce and i'm connecting dots and then the other thing it's done is it's made my my primary businesses far more successful because i'm borrowing ideas i'm learning like oh wow look out this e commerce company does performance marketing i never even heard a performance marketing until and then i brought it back to a newsletter company and i'm like oh at our newsletter company we can buy facebook ads and google ads like this e com company that i invested in called war parker or whatever and like i'm now i'm like cross you know i'm taking on we kinda like what your show is done a really nice job for does it no does it distract you from your main job well that's that's where like that's why i think it was smart that this guy hired some people and i you know sean's hiring some people because then then you can kinda like be as you said in two places at once but no that's you just have you just have to take the risk of hiring a hundred and fifty thousand two hundred thousand dollars no you don't you don't have to i mean i i haven't done that and i've still made a bunch of investments but but i missed a lot of investments because of that very reason because i was like hey i'm really laser focused on biz and summit and powder mountain and i'm not going to look at a deal every day i'm gonna look at like a deal every like three weeks and so got it i'm just gonna miss a lot of stuff you know i missed like i mean i i have a one of my the coo my company invested a hundred and fifty grand in a in a in a crypto hedge fund and he's you know he's up to like almost six million dollars of value don't i don't know if i should be saying later there but you know he i i missed that because i was just like busy i can't look at that right now yeah that's totally true and by the way most of the time when people say like oh it's not about the money it's about the journey it's about the learning it's about the people we you meet you know the k mai normally that's like you know that's the tell it's actually almost always about the money because if you took the money out they wouldn't do any of the shit this is actually one of the rare things where that's actually true because i actually was doing all these things i was meeting founders i was helping them with their businesses i was getting excited and digging into new spaces i was keeping a fantasy portfolio of like to learn like oh i'm tracking these spaces and i think these are gonna be big and i wanna learn about these spaces and here's some the companies that are doing cool things and let me observe their growth tactics from the outside and try to see what's working and maybe apply that to my business i was literally doing all those things for fun before i ever put a dollar in you know i was subscribed to like i don't know fifty different angel syndicate because you didn't have to put money in but you could get the investment memo because i literally loved the learning so much and i i had no plan at the time to be investing in any of those i put zero dollars in sa to all those syndicate leads you know i was that annoying guy that was subscribed and never invested but it's because i actually generally actually wanted to learn and i wanted to meet these founders and so this is one of the rare occasions where when you hear that normally it's bullshit in this case i'm a hundred percent on board which ryan and like that's how i that's exactly how i think about it is this is like a my other friend described it as like it it's a great way to just blow off some entrepreneurial steam it's like you your brain if you're operating a business you all of sudden start hearing about vertical farming and crypto and then like you know oh what what the hell is you know what the hell or n entities and like you learn about all the shit and then part of you was like should i be doing that like what i fuck am i doing this stupid like real estate newsletter i should be going out there building you know this ride sharing company or whatever and so investing gives you a way to like get the high and dabble in that and have some financial upside but you don't it lets you stay focused as an entrepreneurs that's the other like like weird psychological things that comes from investing is aside from the learning aside from the good friends you make and the network you build and the learn you know the the cross ideas you get you literally just get to like it's like a release and and then he can go back to doing your thing do you but but are you sean are you the reason i i did the syndicate thing well i'm doing it with joe and we're i bet my own money it's it's kinda like a rolling fine but it's not it's only deal by deal basis where as sean you have like money that you could deploy a little more freely i didn't do the rolling fun thing because i didn't wanna have customers that i have to well appease and talk to on a regular basis because i didn't want like a job do you feel no now that you have like a job because you have a hundred people who have given you no i write once a month updates and i like doing it anyways it's just hey here's the new companies we reached invest i i would do that for my own documentation anyways what was the conviction at the time i made the investment here's what i believe here's why i believe investing it i like having that anyways for five years from now as an important thing for me so in this case i just publish it i to my investors great so that's the that's all the maintenance that goes into it there was a little bit again early on of like actually getting the investors on board but i took no meetings i took no phone calls i just said here's the link and because of this podcast because of my newsletter because of my own track record in the deck i made that was enough to raise the money for me and i know that that's kind of like a not everybody can do that part most people would have to go knock on a bunch of doors and really sell this thing so so that's that but the other thing you mentioned like for you if you just get busy and you just don't care about angel investing you could just not do a deal for the next six months and no sweat whereas for me i actually do need to deploy this money and so there is like a certain amount of like startup up i need to take every month in order to be doing great investments care and so you know i actually have to deploy this money i can't like just sit on my hands and decide i wanna go go on vacation or like just go super heads out of my own business i can't like i can't do that because i've taken on a fiduciary like obligation to deploy these people's channels right what i what i thought would be man i used to invest i don't know like fifty k a quarter a hundred k a quarter max and now i have to deploy a million dollars a quarter and actually i run out within the first two months of every quarter so so it's actually not been an issue because i just my check sizes are bigger and once people know you're investing they send you deals your friends send you deals they're like hey i'm doing this this is a good deal and they're like oh wow i don't i didn't need to like the fundamentals make sense and all is all the good there's other good go c investors there i didn't need to go find this deal it came to me and that's that's that's best thing that happens what percentage of what percentage of your liquid net worth to do allocate today for this because now with a rolling fund i'm investing yeah right other people of money i only put a a small amount of my own money the fund before this i was doing roughly two hundred k two hundred fifty k a year was what i put in and i don't remember what that was at that time of like liquid network it was like kind of substantial like it was wasn't wasn't i don't know half a percent or something it was like like that mattered to me but also if i lost that money or if like i knew going in at the very least this money is locked up for a long time i can't use it to go buy vacation over or under fifty over under fifteen or ten percent like with it more than like ten because that's a lot i don't know i have to think what i know how much money i made at the i made more money in the last couple of years than i did back then so i i don't know actually how much money add then what i do remember is thinking when i very first started i thought i need about three hundred thousand dollars of a bank role to even do this to have enough of a portfolio to give myself a shot because angel investing so many of your deals are gonna be losers and so i thought okay i need to have you know twenty to thirty bets i need at least three hundred to five hundred thousand dollar of bank roll to go do this and at that at the very beginning i didn't have that that would have been irresponsible amount of money for that was like at the time i don't know half of the money i had or something like that so i said okay i can't do that that's why i started talking to other people and being like hey if i scout for you can i get carry and you put up the capital and that's how i got started although you know great go ahead the one you have almost no money i i really like this as opposed to buying public equities when you have very little money because of a learning and the connections and like the benefit that that could have on your own business like i was betting a very high percentage of my money initially and public it really helped me because i rather than just buying like coca cola or walmart or some publicly traded company where i learned nothing i need no one you know i it doesn't really help like the day to day of my like newsletter business or my community business or you know the the real estate business if these things were basically benefiting my ability to make money on my gauge job so that's why i i actually think when you're small it's actually not a terrible in fact a hi tim ferris thing a while back or a lot he wrote a long time ago before before he started investing and he was basically like i'm just gonna fund my own mba like if i was gonna spend two hundred k the school i think i can learn more investing that two hundred k in a mix of you know like public stocks and and private you know startups and when i read i was like oh absolutely like i will build a network i will build business knowledge i'll have skin in the game and actually this might become a profitable thing you know but the worst case scenario this was my rather than going to you know which wichita state and like go and get my mba like why why would i not do this and so once i read that that's how i started thinking about it was like i'm gonna put a hundred twenty k in that's like a know business school and let me let me just get going well so we we not only thought about that with investing but we we lost twenty five thousand dollars on the first summit we held various private summit in between summit where we would lose twenty grand here at ten grand there to throw like an event and i always saw that as an investment like you're saying like in like my network or my i learning and the same thing i was talking guys another the day about he he wanted some coaching and he was like debating whether i was worth like the monthly amount and he had like four hundred grand in his savings and i was like what do you wanna do what else do you wanna do the four hundred grand you he wanted to put it into like robinhood and buy stock i was thinking like man if i had known about coaching or consulting or some of the things i now know about you know like trainings that you could go get online you're know taking like a a writing course from like you know per online like those things are so valuable like they're so worth the like three grand here the five grand there that if you have you know a little bit of money saved i think that's so much better than trying to make like you know the index return on the stock market when at least when you don't have that much money i i think somebody said to me you know concentrate to get rich diversify to stay rich like you don't earn a much money like put your money into building yourself up building up your learning building up your network and then later when you're when you're much richer than diversify and have a know an allocation and a portfolio like that i don't know if we're gonna get so like sean do you agree i think the clips that we're doing are like the greatest thing that's like one of the most proud things i am a even though they're all of you it's like it's the most proud thing that like i'm so proud of that and i'll i we i don't even know if anyone has made it this far but we're gonna we we hire i can tell you we hired these we we're just about done with the contract they're gonna be doing thirty to sixty a month across the whole hustle organization and you and i can take up as many as we want i think that they are the greatest thing ever and all i wanna do clips is talk in talk at a hundred and twenty second bites so it become alright right you gotta google google the hustle on instagram and you'll see to these clips i'm talking about they're getting like sean's sean did one the other day that the michael jordan thing i think it has a hundred and fifty thousand views at this point me zach did one where that has eighty thousand views they're like it's so fun that's the most proud i am so i don't know if we're gonna get clip out of this i feel like if the guys by the way the guys are listening to this and doing it if you don't feel like you get a great bit cloud clip from this message me on slack i'm gonna record a clip worthy bit cloud thing because i know how you guys will animate it because we have to get a bit confident that has to happen through either the stuff you got out of this or i will say a full like two minute model long i wanna i wanna do a cliff too i thought i'll do that's all get notes scalable they're they're really good you sean's i sean's is naturally good at it i think i'm okay at it ryan you gotta talk way faster or take good at it you gotta like you have to pack these with information and you have to talk really fast i i kinda that's gonna jump because i have i get back to maybe b i have a very i'm gonna literally go execute a shake down right now and i can't wait to see what happened i get shot and you know hey this was my last hu buy my big cloud in my memory but i gotta go shake down somebody who stole something from me and get it back because i know who has it god i love i remember you you you were talking about those once and you were like dude i would go back or you said you have done it or you said you would go do it i have done it and i'll i remember to help i at the time being like this guy's at man i would never do that and now i'm so enraged that's the person's stole and also like there's no other recourse the cops are like well you know what are we gonna do like you're the fucking cops and like the and you know the you know the lawyers like well you could try to like zoom them but you you know just don't cross the line i thought here's like doing fuck like don't hurt don't i'll physically heard them just just yeah yeah make base but basically the the cops like here's what okay they're like once they understood what i wanted they're like oh you need something called a civil assist and a civil assist is where cop goes with you you say i'm gonna confront somebody and a cop goes with you to ensure that nothing goes down let and i just as a thought to let it go and he give it a oh my god no right let's be hickory to have all of you i understand tell them to forget up this person will keep stealing unless they understand that we know that they're stealing and we could happen from doing it so i need just oh you can you ahead of them i hey i by the way i know you're stealing and i'd i really appreciate that if you on steal enjoy the things you've already stolen and i'm oh and i'd really appreciate you a lot anymore happened i'll try my back you you realize you realize how how how much rage drive people to be successful and how much events i don't want you to tell me to forget about it i want you to teach me how to use my rage to fuel me to be better alright did there's such funny things you can do with this someone's been stealing my bike seat outside my house here i've been it's been stolen twice in the last six weeks and like you know you can just put a note outside like here's gonna i'm gonna go buy a few extra bike seats and the leave them out for them you put a nice dude note out there with some lemonade no taste them what of the holes no don't write them but no i want you to like taste them alright take i i'm gonna come to miami y'all you're gonna taste them i'm gonna give them lemonade and we'll let's let's see how it all plays out man now i'm god rather your shoulder telling me to you know turn the other check and go to that god taste them go to amazon type in cattle prod order the top one and that's what you do meditation cushion yeah that's alright see you do your way i'll do my one you guys yeah i feel like i could rule to word i know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a day's off on a travel never looking back