#146 with Suleman "Suli" Ali - Voluntarily Selling Our Data, Creating The New Religion and A Fund Making Millions Shorting Pharma Companies

y it's my first million and i'm sean today sam is out and i brought in a guest for the brainstorm it's one of my best friends su by the way it's funny i always say one of my best friends instead of my best friend just as a slight hedge you know in case they don't feel the same way you can always you know make it easy with the one of my best friends anyways one of my best friends is here and we talked about a bunch of things he had a bunch of ideas we talked about a reputation system for people like yelp for people and the idea of selling your own data instead of having company sell it for you and how that might work we talked about an idea for creating a new religion that was kind of a wild one i don't know how people will feel about that but i liked it we talked about so bunch of fintech ideas so things like owning assets with your friends what the modern day time share might look like c living spaces you know starting new banks starting a competitor to stripe and a framework around that doing the opposite of what the big companies do and we talked about pharmaceuticals we talked talked about a superhuman we talked to a little bit about you know just stuff that's going on in his life sully was the first ever guest on the podcast so go if you go back to episode one it's with su that's where he talked about his kinda life story today we did none of that today we jumped straight into a brainstorm and just shooting the shit just catching up so we're not talking about you know what he's done in the past but he has a very interesting life he sees a bunch of interesting ideas you think he's not only has he been a really really successful entrepreneur but he was also an investor and i don't know hundred companies hundred startups including a bunch of big ones that you've heard of so i asked him you know fun questions like you know look at your calendar and in the last thirty days who was the most interesting person you you met with you had a meeting with on your calendar or if you had to make a million bucks this year how would you do it and he talked about you know some fun ideas like title insurance and stuff like that anyways i won't give it all the way i hope you enjoy this episode i think sully has the potential to be a guest kind of like andrew wilkinson a returning guest who comes on every two months or so as a friend of the pod but you guys let me know you be the judge you can say more silly or that's absolutely either one i i won't take any offense let me know what you guys think feel free to tweet at me and i hope you enjoyed this episode yeah i feel like i could rule word i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a day's off on a goal travel never looking back so you're back first episode the guest from the very first episode of the podcast the podcast would not have even been born without you and now you return i don't know what episode rihanna el are we like one thirty or something like that no it did we're like one forty the five i think this is on forty five so a hundred and forty five episodes later he's back how does it feel man have you done a hundred and forty four episodes and time i've been gone that's amazing actually that first episode is funny because it's like literally everything we've done about the podcast is different now so at that time we're were in a studio in san francisco that i was booking for a hundred dollars an hour and the concept was an interview it's like i tell me you know how you became successful nobody listened to it and now bunch people listen to it it's all on zoom and it's not about how you know it's not an interview show anymore it's great i keep seeing everybody on twitter raving about it and being like i love the show anytime somebody mentions podcast they're like you gotta watch and listen to this one so yeah that's great congrats thank you amazing and so now you're back for the brainstorm version and i don't know if you've heard any of these episodes but basically it's real simple it's it's like if we weren't recording this and we were just catching up what we would be talking about it's that but maybe you know you can leave some of the sensitive numbers out because you know there's much people listening but the big idea is just like what are some either half baked business ideas of startup up ideas that you're like oh yeah somebody should totally go do that or i just had this pain point and fuck someone needs to build a better way to do this so that's one version of it and the other is hey have you seen this thing and it's like something that most people haven't heard about but you've you know about it and you kinda educate so i'll let you pick where you wanna start what's basically what's interesting to you i this idea that i've been touring around with for a little while that i think is needs exist and i'm shocked that it doesn't already exist in like twenty twenty one and it's reputation system for people so i find it so funny that i meet random people and i can't figure out like who they are and there is no quick place to read feedback about them and that'll be in like personal life and professional life and why does that not already exist like they yelp for people basically yes except with a lot more sort of credibility to it i feel like anybody can write a yelp review maybe these need to be like authenticated and filtered in some way but yeah that why does that exist somebody did this there's two versions i saw one was like a rate like it was like a ex boyfriend raider did you see this one that out it was a kinda scandalous or whatever because basically it was girls could rate guys that they had been with but you don't know if they've actually been with them and they could say whatever hell they want yeah and it was kind of all negative because you know most people just leave a bad review for like an ex boyfriend or like someone you're not with typically there's like a reason you're out with them lulu right is that i right to bring you yeah lulu was the is still around i don't think it is i remember this and i was like wow this such a good idea but this should exist i think it's interesting in personal life but it's probably even more compelling in professional life for example i've been you know kinda traveling around the country during covid which i probably shouldn't be doing what have been and whenever i get to new city i'm like i wonder what it would be like to live here and i go find houses that are for sale that i'm like i would buy this house if i lived here and i'll go look at them i'll go look at you know twenty houses and i feel like there should be a reputation system where it should be like this guy keeps traveling from city to city and look at housing but is people should know that you're not gonna buy yeah exactly or there's this concept of the ten x engineer there's some engineers that i've worked with like i worked with this engineer his name was smash real name or called smash because it was a ten x his name like sean mar but everybody called in smash okay and right he was just so productive and all of the most difficult problems we would send his way and even simple problems who would just get through faster than everybody else always funny because i feel like i know that he's a ten x engineer but nobody else outside the company knows that he's a ten x engineer right and so he never gets paid for it in the way that he should he should be able to go work anywhere that he wants in the world without interviews just based on like his reputation so that's another use case but i think you could go pick lots of different verticals and it could be done that way well there's another version of this that i think interesting so we've both done like facebook ads to try to grow a business you did a mobile gaming company and in mobile gaming is like kinda of famously about wales right well so some people will come into your app and most you know i don't know you tell me the ratios but it's like i don't know not what ninety eight percent of people don't pay anything or something like that ninety three seven percent will pay so seven percent pay and then even within that seven percent there's like whatever x percent that makeup up half revenue or more right yeah but fifty percent of revenue will come from the top twenty five point two five percent right exactly so so those point two five percent are so much more valuable and so it made me think a like as a as somebody who has a business it's like okay who's got the tracking of who these whales are like i think facebook facebook knows who the whales are maybe some of the ad networks know who the whales are i'm not sure but then i was thinking could you okay so like everybody this is i thought i had yesterday was here's a really bad idea because i think it's against the way all the trends are going like signal is like the number one app in the app store because people are like want privacy from whatsapp so it's like everything is not privacy privacy my data data you know like security safety i don't trust my neighbor they might have covid like everything is like about isolating and privacy and this is a different idea which is like could you just sell your data like shouldn't i just be able to sell my data on the open market so basically should there be a service where i can just voluntarily d everything about me i could basically say hey yeah i've connected my credit card statement to the service and they've deemed me worth fifty dollars a month i'm gonna make fifty dollars a month i kinda know my data's out there anyways but i'll take an incoming maybe hundred dollars a month i know what i could get for it but i'll tell you what i like to buy how much i spend what percentage of my wallet i spend on food versus this versus that and like you know if you're a food delivery company you should pay a hundred times your normal cost of customer acquisition for me because i order so much goddamn door and so like i wonder if you could let people basically create a public facing wallet or data where data store where you can basically sell your data voluntarily like giving blood at a blood bank or selling you know going and go into a sperm bank and and giving out just sperm like why can't you do that with your data i think the other thing that would do is it would like catalyze new connections that don't happen because this data doesn't exist anywhere so if i put like all this information up about me i always get like random inbound from people that don't know anything about me it'd be amazing to for example wealth managers i feel like they're constantly reaching out to people to the wrong and just spamming people and they have no real information and i think if they had access to good data they would actually be able to to be like hey here's a specific concrete thing that you could do differently that would be that would make you more money right and the other thing is forget even just getting paid fifty hundred dollars a month maybe it's not worth it for my data but here's the better thing that could happen so ben who who's a business partner and in in different things you know ben used to work a fan joel so it's like oh what'd did you do at fan one of the big things he did at fan was they had these whales who would be the big better that would play daily fantasy and they would they would make again same sort of thing one percent of the population would make up for i half or more of the revenue and so he would go and wine and dine them or it's like hey these guys need you know these guys are in new york here's tickets you know four seats at the knicks game or whatever because they i knew they needed to keep them happy well same sort of thing like there should be brands that are like rolling out the red carpet for my wife right now because she's a big spend on like this random collection of things that like this random categories and the brands in that category should be treating her like a vip so maybe the value is not even in the get a small monthly vague for publishing my data but maybe the brands who really want a spend like me in this category like i would not be the one for home goods maybe for me it's sports betting they should know that hey sean we've we've we saw the data we would love to fly you out to to go do this thing to have this vip experience because we know you're valuable based on this real reputation that's that's public in some way this is what makes facebook's so valuable like this specific thing is the fact that they have all this data about this person and all of a sudden is shopping for home goods and so they are able to sell that customer to you know ikea or restoration hardware and whatever i mean i think it's super valuable and i think a sort of open network of this data would be amazing okay here's a slightly different thing but it's on the same topic of reputation let this is not even a business idea i just wanna know yeah your opinion on this alright so i've been accused i've been i've been tagged as somebody who is looser with my moral and ethics than most people especially most people who do podcasts are put stuff out there right because i'll be like like we got a lot of heat because we had ty lopez come on it's not even his name sounds like it sounds like a fake name but i think that's his name the ty lopez came on the podcast and he's like some people are like this guy is a scam artist other people like this guy's is my hero definitely a lot of people listen to this podcast were like that guy's is a scammer he's the scam youtube guy and people were like i can't believe you're letting him on the show and i was like i can't believe that you're surprised i'm letting this guy show first of all this definitely gonna be highly watched to know like yeah if you know that i'm willing to do things to get more audience it's like you know let's be honest and then the second thing is like i see no moral problem even if i knew even if it was elizabeth holmes from there like if i knew this person had committed fraud i would still look like i'm trying to do conferences conversations with interesting people that people that i'm interested in i would have tons of questions i would wanna ask that person i would love to talk to elizabeth homes i've read everything i read that book i deb memories i obsessed with her i don't know how she did it it just seems so insane what she did i'm obsessed with the did you watch the documentary the indian guy who was like her partner that guy was hilarious no no i haven't it i mean the my favorite thing is she would roll around with nine bodyguard she had a meeting with rupert murdoch and showed up with nine bodyguard and rupert murdoch was like who are all these people right he's like like steve jobs seventy billion dollars what is this yeah yeah steve jobs had nine bodyguard so that's how i picked nine okay anyways so so basically oh anyways as long story short i've been a accused or i'll say like oh this is just a guy who was doing this thing where he was like he was arbitrage uber credits uber invite credits like yeah he had people in india taking rides and he was getting you know ten dollar us credits and he was selling the ten dollar credits for five dollars you could ride half off and so like that was his business some people were like oh my god why are you guys highlighting i'm like i think that's a clever business that's not illegal and you know even if it was illegal i'd still wanna talk to somebody who did something interesting it doesn't mean i can note it but whatever anyways my question is actually a little bit different my question is but by the way that reminds you this one thing which is somebody pitch me jewel in like the seed round yeah and i was like well i think this gonna be a great business but i want nothing to do with this based on like moral grounds yeah like i think i would have invested in j yeah sounds like you would have you would have made a lot of money and also i think you know whatever i don't know wanna defend it yeah i i probably would have invested because i probably would have made a lot of money so the question might gonna ask you is a little bit different over last few weeks i've randomly met with a bunch of people who have i'd say three or four different people which is a lot who've had like some kind of scandal or controversy like if you google their name type of thing and different things one was like a me too movement person who like kind of like had to resign from a very high profile position because something happened another one was like involved in the underground of bitcoin and the silk road whatever i met these people and i find them interesting and i to talk to them most of the i don't even know they bring it up in the conversation they're like yeah you know and i'm happy to talk more about that thing and i'm like what are you talking about they're like you know if you google me there's some stuff i'm like oh i didn't google you but okay tell me more what are you doing in that situation so there's three three options option one you basically turn and run you're like i want nothing to do with you don't wanna talk to you whatever option two is like well i'll talk to you but i'm gonna keep my dis i'm gonna keep you at arm length i'm not gonna like i'm not gonna really become your friend i'm not gonna do business with you i'm not gonna do anything like that and three is like you know i'll look into it i'll kinda make a judgment of based on my interactions with you and what this history really is and kind of what you're telling me i'll kinda make a judgment call from there whether i wanna like continue to have any kind of relationship with you and all how do you how would you deal with that the first thing i do when i meet anyone is i try to inter the shit out of them in the most friendly way possible so i just you know ask them a hundred questions about who they are okay i have this ins curiosity about learning about people and why they make the decisions they make so especially people who are like way out there making decisions that i i'm afraid to make right not even based on you know personal morals but like society and these people are like fuck society i'm doing this thing they're so fascinating the the thing is like evil and there was risk of people's health and maybe and same with tool but i think there's a lot of stuff that's like bad but you're not actually risking people's lives or or things like that okay so you said let's say you're not in the turn and run away you're like i'm curious at least gonna talk to the person i'm not gonna run away from the person just because of that so let's take a out what about b and c where where do you land i guess all my close friends are people that i think are high integrity i have this like a friend of a friend who i recently discovered is like scamming the shit out of people and so now i just don't talk to that guy so i guess i would not i'm not be friend people that i think our scammers what if it's more like the me too stuff so it's like person was that a job and then they got set fired because they were sending dudes to somebody else or something like that right like they were know they were harassing somebody or they they were in a relationship but they were their boss so it's like not you know the power dynamic was off and then they got fired or whatever it is what if it's a situation like that i think we're probably very well line if you're scamming someone or you're hurting people like yeah yeah like just i'm just not interested in that you know whereas like people who do something in their personal life you know it's a little bit different yeah i mean like i think the bill clinton stuff is not as bad actually i don't even remember any of the details of the bill hunt stuff because that was young but it seemed like it was too con sending adults so you know it doesn't seem like a big deal but a lot of the me too stuff is ab important and like i'd run from that too i don't know what it is about me but i'm like you first i'm so curious and then i'm so curious the point where we're like oh wait i've now asked this person forty five questions to just because i wanna know what what the hell were you thinking what's life like been like since you've been like os size from society like i'm asking them all these questions and pretty blunt about it and they're all answering because they're probably just like thank god i was talking to about yeah but at the same time but by after after question forty five i'm like oh wait like now i need to like decide i need to like separate now or like this person thinks i'm their friend because i've been talking to it for forty five minutes and ask the forty five questions those you must get people coming up to them and like bar barrage them with questions all the time like the wolf of wall street guy now he's out there doing interviews teach teaching seminars shit yeah teaching the seminars i would love to go to a seminar and just see how he that's what he does that movie was the best thing that ever happened to him i think because it like it made him a famous and it made him like kind of like cool in a way that like what he did was actually like kinda not cool yeah but it made him seem sexy it's like us leonardo d cap yeah but i mean he did scan a bunch of people out of their like life savings so that's terrible but i'd still love to beat him in a tear him probably wouldn't be friends with him i mean if i was an entrepreneur i think i'd be a journalist because i love asking people a ton of questions by the way you do this thing i don't know if you know you do it but i have stolen it from you since because you ask a bunch of questions so first i just noticed man so doesn't really talk about himself that much like he doesn't and some people will say something they'll be like i really wanna do x and it's like you've actually done that thing and that's normally where someone's like let me tell you about how great i am i've actually done this thing at you know i've done your dream basically let me just quickly assert myself and you don't do that you just like oh cool tell me like what do you wanna do you just let them talk you're like a one way information you know like you you want the information from them but the other thing that i've noticed is when someone says something that's like kinda ridiculous like you were saying like they live their life in some crazy way or they think in some way that's either like completely crazy or definitely like counter to how most people will do things or counter it out you would do things i've noticed you don't counter back with like well here's how i think about it or like i think that's dumb and instead this is the way you're just like you just laugh and you're like amazing tell me why do you do that yeah you just say they word like amazing and then you just like asked them a follow question and i looked at that and i was like wow that's actually the best way to do this because nobody wants to be told that they're wrong nobody wants be told that you know better everybody just wants to talk and actually by doing this you actually do learn a little lot more about this person in their perspective then you would by just repeating what you already know that's in your head yeah i always do that and you know actually my brother does this too and sometimes we'll go out and meet somebody in a professional context and like you know the two of us are just asking a hundred questions what's funny is at the end it's so rare for the other person to ask a hundred questions back and to be like great now it's my turn i have a hundred questions to ask you how did you do this why did you do that like nobody asks a hundred questions i feel like they should i'm just waiting for them to ask it it's not that it's like a one way street i just waiting for the other person to show an interest in you know hearing my story okay so let me let's get back to let's get back to the ideas i i hijacked you to find out how i should deal with these scandalous folks that i'm meeting but that is a great way which is say amazing and ask a ton more questions because it is amazing and fascinating what they've done i realize how much of a fucking know it all i am because now that i'm like waiting for that moment to instead of telling them what i think and just saying amazing like tell me more like that's awesome like why do you do that the conversation just goes so much better and you learn so much more and you enjoy it so much more than like getting into this kind of like well i think this and you think this without even you know it's not not even what i intended before but now i i have a hack so if you're listen to this you should try that yeah also you you get like a psychological profile of people by doing this like recently i've i've been trying to find i'm buying this business and i was trying to find something to run it and i posted on facebook and twitter about it and all these people contact with me why is nobody replying to that i feel like you put out the best call to action it's like hey i have a business i'm looking for someone who's smart but you don't need to be a genius to to run this thing clear path for you to become a millionaire you know you just have to kind of like work at it and i'll help you and i think that coming from you that's like like you're willy won and you're like here's a golden ticket you don't even need to eat the chocolate bar like here's just the golden ticket and i saw there's like six comments on the thing and i was like what the fuck is going on know like that's insane to me i asked for dm so a ton of people dm me so i i did get a decent number that makes more sense yeah two hundred people that like replied to that and what's funny is somebody replied that's like a friend of a friend and because i've interrogated them and ask them a hundred questions i already have this like psychological profile this person and i was like oh yeah you're actually a good fit so i'm gonna like zoom in on you and try to make this work with you type thing let's talk with my mother's kinda like ideas spaces problems that you find interesting that you think people should be working on or stuff you find interesting what else you got the other thing i think is interesting is kinda like a reputation system but trying to catalyze connections so understanding who people are at other companies the information like website the information that's like that tech news website will put out like a here's the hierarchy of people at coin base yeah the org chart and i think having a place where you can find who is the right contact at microsoft or salesforce or p and g or whatever to be able to actually like catalyze the transaction or a deal that you're trying to do like that's what linkedin should be but isn't we talked about an idea like this a while that long time ago with daniel gross he was on and we both had the same kind of we're were both like dude you know what fucking is so annoying and shouldn't be like shouldn't be so invisible is just like the org charts of all these companies like who's who who manages what who reports to who why is this a secret and then brady just put it in a chat that there's a a startup up came out that raised ten million bucks to do exactly it's called the org dot com and basically they're crowds it so you go like i created the one for twitch i was like oh good twitch didn't have on to i was here's twitch there's the ceo and then here's the coo and you know like here's where i fit in this little like tree and then nobody else like contributed to it but i think that's like obviously hard you know cold start of this but if they do it i think it's a pretty valuable dataset to have which is like because that does take that the biz dev kinda like linkedin problem and you could charge for took an access to these people on their emails yeah yeah you easily charge for it going back to that reputation thing i think you could do that in a bunch of different verticals and it's like super valuable and you could get paying customers and like lawyers would do it realtors would do it like all kinds of professions where they're interacting with random people and you're saying not reputation of the lawyers you're saying them of the the customers clients yeah customers and i think there's some people that do this with tenants if you're a tenant trying to get partnered there's some like reputation system out there for it yes i think it's kinda like secretive too i don't think you get to see your score yeah maybe you should be able to and maybe you should get contested in some way i guess it's sort of like the what's the chinese system the social credit score or whatever this yeah this is the social credit score should exist it should just be like not government done and should be private and verticals and do you know much about that i don't know kind of anything about it i saw like a five minute you know like vice movie on it or whatever the v like youtuber video on it that's all i know yeah same i wanted to do a deep dive in it but i haven't one thing that stood out and that was like americans were like oh my god this is so invasive like china is using this to like oh my god everybody has a score and then the people they interviewed in this thing and obviously they is interviewed a handful of people so who who knows but the handful of people that they showed were like actually this is super useful like i'm a good outstanding citizen and because of that my score is good and because my score is good like i get into you know i got into college here i got like lower rates on like stuff because i pay back you know like great my life got better because i'm not being penalized for other people who do that you know the wrong thing now of course the counter is like what if you're unjust you know docked and there's like no recovering and then then it becomes like a black mirror episode yeah like i really wonder where jack is right so this is an example of that gun run which is jack is still gone still missing yeah and everybody like moved on and forgot about it yeah another idea i have that i love is like creating a religion but not for not with kind of a spiritual element but with a like rational decision making element so how you should live your life i think that the education system in the united states doesn't really teach you like all the things you need to live on an everyday basis like is my girlfriend a good girlfriend or a bad girlfriend for me and why how should i think about money as an adult how to invest all of these like basic human things that just are not taught in school i think you could build a like subscription service it's a combination of online courses plus sort of life experts that are like life coaches that you work with one on one and then a forum where people or subscribers can like hang out and talk to each other and like learn from each other why religion versus this just sounds like life school why did you start with like religion i think religion i think of as like ind people in a fundamental way of like this is how i should live my life and this is my community and a bunch of the ass of religion a bunch of the best aspects of religion are like disappearing from a lot of cultures because religion is just out of v and i think this could be a really good substitute for all of those things i think there's some like human need to want answers and this is a place where you can kind of like learn and discuss answers to like so it's it's beyond just like you know making financial decisions is it's sort of like what am i doing here and why do i exist and what i do with my myself do you get that information today yeah you know i i get it from like random places like i get it from my parents my siblings the wall street journal book places like that and is there one kind of like what's the closest so so i think so so different people have put out their life philosophies on each of these individual subjects so i don't know which one you wanna subscribe to but like for example i think that naval nevada got really popular in the last few years for putting out stuff that's like here's my belief around wealth like he has his tweet storm like how to get rich without getting lucky i think that thing's been viewed close to ten million times now and so you know he's got like and you know with no he didn't try to do anything to distribute he just put it on twitter and then like whatever happened to organically from their happened and so yeah i think he had like ten million people kind of engage with that tweet storm and that was basically like a operating philosophy for how to think about money at wealth and you know he does that and i think you know i learned a lot from that and i think a lot of people probably did and then there's other people who you know on relationship or like you know maybe you maybe people listen to like b brown or something like that about like either relationships or like vulnerability or something like that or they'll listen to tony robbins or those listen whoever right there's a bunch of these people who have kinda put out their like philosophy is there one of those that has like most stuck with you or or do you like if you were gonna pick one person who who's who's resonating with you who would you say i mean i love neville and everything that he's written the sort of most influential thing to me was reading in college reading atlas shrugged you know i don't believe all of the randy and things that are in that book and it's funny because i in this conversation with this sky smash once where i was like you know have you ever read atlas shrugged and he was like yeah that book douche bags like and i was like yeah that's my favorite book of all right so you you know i understand most a lot of people don't like it but it was great for me to read in college because i was like oh cool i can like make decisions and build my life in the image that i want it to be like and the decisions that i make today matter and my life today is the sum of like the previous decisions that i've made before and like stuff happens in life and you can catalyze you know relationships businesses all sorts of stuff and i think reading that book woke me up to that concept so i actually i read that book so don't to us to add or whatever i kinda thought of it same thing as like the book that douche bag is like but that made me think i'll probably like this book and so i have it on my list of like in my kindle of books to read but i've also thought about the religion thing quite a bit and looked at a bunch of different model so i have a theory about how this is gonna play out it is not like a well formed theory so i'll kind of ramble for a second and explain how it i think it's play out so i think there's gonna be of movement that's not really a religion but like kinda like you said it's a it's like a life philosophy it's it's it's a it's operating philosophy so i don't think it's gonna be about god in fact i think the opposite so i think okay here's the kind of it's kinda what i believe so you know i'm biased but here's what here's i think a lot more people are gonna believe what i believe which is that most religions celebrate death and like give very little like value to life it's like and most of the things you do in life are in service to this sort of your life whether it's heaven and some religions or hindu rein it's like i better do good now for this destination later and i think that like what's the new religion gonna look like i think that it's gonna put a lot more emphasis on life than death and say like hey it's not about some afterlife destination some heaven you get to go to like this is heaven don't leave this is the heaven like make it heaven yeah is gonna be the core of the philosophy i think it's gonna be most religions are you know god will save you you know footprints in the sand type of thing or it's like hey god has a plan everything happens for a reason yeah you know it's god's will much of that dm on so this is gonna be the opposite this is gonna be like you are in control of your life you decide what happens and you decide how it's gonna be whether you're gonna like or dislike what the way that your life is going it's up to you to control the quality of your life you don't get to control the internal external environment but you get to control how you feel about it and it'll put a big emphasis on like your response to what's happening not good things happening to you and so i think that's gonna be so be like radical belief in yourself not a radical belief in god the next thing is that the i think it'll keep a lot of things that i totally agree with that like everything you just said totally you're and so the then the the next thing is alright what's it gonna take from list it's not gonna change everything i think that's the twenty percent that changes the last repeat that changes is gonna spread through the internet so somebody's gonna figure out how to to turn this like what's the if you look at how other religions spread it was like you know like or going into like town squares are just saying shit to like writing things down into books and then those books being passed down and like schools and churches or you gather in person like okay all that's gonna move to the internet so people are gonna figure out how to like take this philosophy put it on the internet more like neville tweet storm that's gonna get res shared a bunch of times on the internet and then you know people are gonna gather on the internet they're gonna like coalesce to private groups and chat rooms and video streams and stuff like that all through the internet so it's gonna spread like crazy through the internet and it's gonna have i believe like a satoshi na yeah i think it's gonna get distributed it through facebook ads right and yeah exactly like if if you can swing the election like fuck government fuck politics like go straight for religion like the most durable like religion is the most valuable business right like super sticky gets passed down from fucking generation to generation people will literally tit ten percent of all their income to do this thing if if you it people will give their life for the religion people will literally become suicide bombers if they believe enough so like what price won't they pay so so religion really is the most valuable business so they're gonna take like whatever the business models are and whatever the distribution channels are and somebody's gonna say hey this is worth it i'm gonna put my philosophy out there into the world and i'm gonna put i'm gonna go get koch brothers money behind me basically i'm gonna put a a hundred million two hundred million three hundred million dollars behind getting this thing to spread because this is worth you know billions of dollars or if not even if not the dollars like i just believe that this is the way that life is and should be and i'm gonna spread it i'm gonna do that with my wealth the other thing is i think it's gonna have a saddam founder like i think it's gonna have a satoshi na automotive founder because any human you know that's the beauty of god and jesus is like you know you can't point at them and say look at them they these these they're not perfect they're not great you know they can't get torn down so you need it to be an idea of figure head but the figure head has to be sort of fake and anonymous the last thing is i think that it's gonna come with its sort of own currency and as why i think that bitcoin has kind of a good shot at cat this in some way so i think that it's gonna have its own little economy that people use to like basically like i think the way that people store value in bitcoin they're gonna store value in some asset that's like their pledge to the cause basically and the more people that that pledged the more valuable your asset gets so you get sort of paid to be a believer or early believer and that all the people who believe in this religion will accept this as their like barter gold anyway that's that's kind of the out there a part of the idea oh really currency that's a wild idea i think all those are come into like what's you know this new religion that's gonna come out or is gonna form and you know they'll it'll be open source just like crypto where you know you can you can fork it great and you can make your own radical branches of this you can also you know it's owned by no one and so therefore it can be owned by anyone which will be mean that like in the same way that i can go start a christian church there's no monopoly on it i can go create my branch i can create my venue i can create my brand around it and i think it'll be done more like that unless like a a corporation who owns its ip there's bunch of new vote churches i've never been any of them like have you ever been to glide in san francisco or there's some other new churches in san francisco that are like no when i've heard about glide it's what makes glide so notable because five friends have told me about clyde and said it's like kind of amazing glide is in the tenderloin which is a rough part of san francisco and it has people from all walks of life go there so i've been there once and gavin news who's now the governor of california was there and so was ben h wife and then the rest of the group is people who live in the tenderloin so like tons of homeless people drug addicts trans just people of all walks of life what's amazing about it is it's just open to anybody and everybody so amazing that like you know governor of california and homeless most people will be in the same church and it celebrates life and not a specific religion aspects like you know submit to god etcetera the other part i forgot to say one of the reasons it's gonna spread through the internet like crazy is it's gonna take the form factor of the things that spread on the internet which are memes and songs so all of the tenants are gonna be dis distilled down into the equivalent of a meme so like you know an image would text on it that's gonna be the whole verse that's gonna be the whole passage john three sixteen will be i mean the other part is song so hills song church is kind of the other one but kinda like i don't know if it's even a new church necessarily but it's definitely rising in popularity faster than most and i've kinda studied it because there was like the main pastors that got karl lent are you familiar with him no so basically this pastor carl lent he is he looks like a pop star not a pastor but again he fit he he this is the problem of having anybody be the figure any human be the figure so he was kind of like someone who took a mainstream because he's super good looking he dresses like with like supreme like street wear style like you know pastor he used to be a college basketball player he's friends with ky irving and drake and like he's justin bieber personal pastor said like when justin bieber quit his tour his hundred million dollar tour and just stopped and said like you know i wanna go spend time with god it's you know he basically went and hung out with karl lent and like just decided like i'm gonna clean up my act ky irving kinda same thing and he's friends with all these like rappers and athletes because he looks like the hip hop pastor and he said he's like jacked and then he leads hills song church and hills song is famous because they do kind of incredible music like they are like a full band they put out albums every year that are like like i used to listen to one of their songs it's not even knowing this is a religious song it's just a cool song called oceans that's like just a very i don't know like peaceful song that's like i as catchy and it's not like a hallelujah praise jesus that's not like the words of the song so you don't realize it's gospel but it is gospel it just sounds like you know mainstream music in a way and so i think that whoever does this is gonna take a page out of the hills song playbook and they're gonna convert all their like kind of the things they do when they gather and the mantra into catchy music you'll listen to because you like it it'll be shared through spotify and youtube and it all these other huge platforms and then the you know the ideas will be captured in it has to be simple enough where it's captured in in a meme now it won't look like a attacking me probably but it will be the same idea so that's the that's the rest of my religion thesis yeah the people who i think could do this today is actually calm like the com app has the attention of people and could like do this they're already kind of an anti religion like oh look this is clearly good for the soul without me telling you what to believe in this like these deities you know yeah exactly and it has all these people who are like turning to it for answers and it's got like the same soothing voice that lot of religion religion will have so feels like that's a place where something like this could start okay i like that idea a lot maybe i should go do that that sounds fun yeah i keep thinking i should do that and nothing else matters in life except like working out some version of that idea because i think it would be like transformational like it's very hard to impact you know billions of people and religion is something that has done that across like history of time and i think calling in a religion also like expands your concept of what's possible and what it is is the other reason i to call it a religion as opposed to like a you know consumer subscription service right exactly because when you when you you said religion i got really excited and then you described it and it sounded like some kind of like educational service that you you know you've growth ads you charge for and actually all those things are true but when you call it a religion it can be so much more than if you just called it like my masterclass class for life or whatever whatever else it would be because that just feels like a business it feels like a narrow business and that's just trying to like has like a very has a very transactional kind of focus yeah totally i have this other idea that i don't know if it's actually a business idea or like a concept i believe should exist which is shared ownership of assets among friends mh so i i've gone to a place for where i'm not precious about any like physical object or thing that i buy except maybe like a white pair of sneakers for a week until they're no longer white i think that it'd be amazing to have a group of friends where you share assets in some way so friend of mine a friend of ours ramon had a mc and what was great is you'd go over at to his house and he'd be like getting mc you drive it take around the block like go go go as opposed to like this is my mc step six feet back and your social distancing from the car right and he was like yeah if you bang it up no big deal and some mc right it's a car so i think doing that with things like a mc or a vacation home amongst your friends would be amazing by the way when i drove it i drove it at like eleven miles an hour because i was like i'm not fucking messing this car up and he was like no was like why aren't you driving like what are you doing why are aren't we just rolling yeah hit the gas i was like a little bit scared to fuck up your car so i don't wanna do anything i don't know how this car works this car is like a helicopter to me yeah so i think that should exist and it's like you get people who are in some local trusted network and you have like a shared calendar and i've been traveling around the country trying to buy a vacation house and the goal is if i buy this inventing time shares yeah that's what's gonna happen just everybody gets access to for free and maybe you know you gotta pay for somebody to come and clean it afterwards but other than that it's like a free community service and i wonder if that'll take off i this is a totally different idea but you've told me something about like similar idea of like community kinda like neighborhoods so you i think you were the one who tell me about these developers who are doing explain this idea you know what i'm talking about yes so there's a couple of developers in florida who are building communities with housing development communities hyper targeted at people of us a specific culture or faith or something like that so i think there's a bunch of indian communities in florida where somebody built five hundred homes and everybody who moves into the home generally speaking it's gonna be a bunch of indian people who are living there and then they have like indian culture inside that community and i think the club house has like a temple in it and they provide food that's like indian food three times a day that you can sign up for as a a subscription meal service like instead of the country club it's like food that my parents or your parents will actually go wanna go eat and when they get there they kinda feel like they can just talk to other people because there are other people just like them you know for the most part they don't feel like hey this is this should be standoff it's like no we're we're meant to get to know each other that was the premise of this community to to start with yeah it's like master planned versions of like chinatown or korea or whatever whatever it is and yeah i think that would make so much sense and there should be developers that build it and that's the sort of thing where people are gonna say i wanna be in that neighborhood and i'll pay whatever it takes to be in that neighborhood even if it's more expensive than other neighborhoods remember or like jeff i introduced to vis michelle's friend we went out to dinner we were talking about a bunch of startup ideas at the time he's working on something new has he told you about it no okay it's kinda cool and it's in this vein so i'll i'll bring it up here and by the way jeff is like really funny character like i can you give people like their like two or three interesting things about him so they have like a picture of their mind of who this guy is because part of the appeal of the story is just how unique of a character he is and how you unique character resolve this too he's like a robot and is really focused on being successful so i met somebody who was like a google engineer and lived in fan in a parking lot and he was like i do this because it only cost me three hundred dollars a month to live and i get to keep all the rest of money and i think this is the sort of stuff jeff would do right so jeff used to spend three dollars a week on food and i was like how is that possible and he was like well you know i work at uber it provides they provide you know like a lunch in kinda of dinner service and they have snacks so that's breakfast so he's like i get breakfast lunch dinner from there and there's always like leftover so i take it home so that's my like at home food and he's like you know i live on my own i live walking distance away even so i don't even use the uber credits that they give me because like you know i'll have to pay tax or something like i just walked to work i walked back to my apartment the only expense i have is rent and then on sundays i walk to costco which is like by the way thirty minutes away from where he live he walks to costco and he goes in and you don't have to have a membership to go to the snack bar so he walks past the other side past the door greet to the snack place and gets a three dollar chicken break yeah he's a he gets a chicken bake and then he's like that's my treat for myself every week and you know that's how i live and he makes like you know he makes great money as an engineer at uber and i was why the fuck are you doing this because he's kind of a robot who was singular obsessed with success yeah it's amazing because he got a girlfriend and the girlfriend was like blowing his mind in terms of what she required and asked them of like you know you we gotta go out to dinner in a restaurant and you gotta pay for it he was just like why that seats so unnecessary we went and did a spartan race which is like a thirteen mile you know like adventure race and at the end we went to chick f a because we're all starving after the race and he had grabbed like twelve protein bars from the race that they were giving away afterwards and i was like oh no no no this is out of my budget i'm not doing to play i need to like i'll obviously eat these protein bars eight ten protein bars instead which i found amazing so he was really disciplined in that way so anyways he totally changed so okay so i talked to him was like what are you up to like are you still just like focused on being a billionaire or like what's your what do you wanna up to and so he was like he's like actually i you know i really wanted to like kind of mix it up in life he's like so i found this thing that this guy was doing called together casa and so if you go to together dot casa you can see and basically this guy was like hey i wanna get together a bunch of entrepreneur entrepreneurial people we're gonna rent an airbnb beef for three months and it's just like these kind of like these getaway where you stay in a house for four to twelve weeks and different houses have different terms see it's not invite only but it's like you apply to get in so we we make sure that your house are people who are like minded they're trying you know it might be one house that's like people were trying to make it in hollywood or people were trying to make it in the music industry people who are you know just really adventurous and love the outdoors only in his case it was like engineers who are hackers who wanna build kind of like you know cool things and so he went and he lived in a hat in in a house with other kind of like engineers who wanted to build cool things and they you know got to wake up and surf every morning and then like whatever and they did this thing they all became best friends and you know it's like this version of the real world without the cameras and i thought was kind of an incredible idea this like together casa a thing and on the surface it just sounds like oh that's just like vacation rentals right like what's the big deal i actually think it's like kind of a sign of of something that could be much more which is i think this could like replace college if you do it right a lot of people trying to replace college are putting the the courses online but of course the courses are not why we go to college right and you know there's two other major things one is like the diploma which is like this insurance policy in society and then the other is like going and getting to meet a bunch of other you know twenty something year olds get hopped up do crazy things and like you know having that like campus experience a dorm experience is like a big part of it and so i think this is great because it kind of extends it you can do this when you're twenty five you can do this when you're thirty five you can do this whenever you want so you can have that kind of like social fun immersive experience with other people who are kind of in the same phase of life same life outlook as you and i think that's kind of amazing and so what do you think of this idea i love it and i think it's totally different than vacation rentals because it's something that you would like just go elect to do it and almost the destination doesn't matter it's the people that matter exactly and it's a great way to especially if you're having like an identity crisis like i have every twenty four or thirty six months where you're like you know i was really born to be a comedian you can be like oh great i wanna be a comedian i'm gonna go to this together casa of comedian and we're gonna like mind mel and that kind of mind melting is something you can't get anywhere else you can't get anywhere else and it's the most effective thing like i remember when i was trying to be great at poker right like i was twenty twenty one years old i was playing a fuck ton of poker online and i was living in the forums every day on tu plus two forums i was trying to get better and that's one way to get better it was like going and then reading and like watching videos buying books but the best players they all did the same thing they all got a house they moved in together they would grind all day and then at night they would shoot the shit with each other but they would kinda be swapping stories and tactics and then they would help each other out where one guy would kinda like you know if one guy on tilt the other guy knows hey i'm i've been there i was there yesterday so i'll help you not tilt let's go through the hand history together so all the best poker players they became the best because they were going and living in these poker houses all summer and then they would go back to school or go back wherever afterwards but and then the best ones just said fuck i'm doing this year round like there is no better way to get better and make like great friends doing this yeah i love it and it's something that happens organically like even the queen's ga they'd have like a chess together casa just organically and try to get better at chess on that in that way there's so much friction to doing this in the real world like i'd love to go to together casa stand up comedian i feel like in a month i'll know if i like actually wanna be a standout out comedian and have any talent or should shut the fuck up and not ever consider that dream again right go back to basic bitch casa and like you know realize that it's not for you i'm with you i think that's true so it's not just about make friends not just about getting better but like there's an element of like this is the best way to figure out if this is if these are the people you like and if that's who you are it's like a way to dabble at high speed which is kinda what college should do like i remember when i graduated i was i took the mca i ready to go to med school and i realized like i don't know shit about what it what is being a doctor like you know i took all these biology and chemistry and physics classes but like that's not what being a doctor is and so then i went for a two weeks span and i just shadowed a doctor i pulled a favor from a family friend i was like hey you're a surgeon i wanna just know what it's like before i commit eight years to going to med school like you know can you just let me follow you around he did and within two weeks i was like oh this is cool i can do this but it's not for me like this is not what i thought i don't wanna go to school for eight years with this being the motivating endpoint like i i can't do that whereas business you know i entered a business plan competition and got to you know fake being an entrepreneur i was like this is amazing i wanna go do this for the rest of my life and those were just lucky balances that i even got to do that how many people didn't get those like get that shot and now they're in a job that's like is not for them you know because they never got to dabble yeah and it's funny because i had a job at microsoft and the thing that made me quit was i looked at the people who'd been there seven years and i was like i don't want my life to be like this and so immediately left and was like i gotta go find another path right and i think this is the same way this is just another way to like get exposed to new worlds and see if you wanna do them i'm looking at this website and they really should go pick like verticals like you know outdoors y yeah there's like only one casa right now and it's the one that they're living in and like they're gonna do more so it's like super super early but i was like this is great i wanna invest in this i think this could actually be a big deal yeah if if it's done right i also have a friend from college who's you know an adult degenerate he's just like i'm an adult degenerate i don't have any adult degenerate friends because all my friends are now buried either or have jaw responsible yeah yeah wants to be an adult degenerate there should be a together casa for adult degenerate it's like they'd love each other yeah if there's not a swing casa then like you know this site did not try yeah exactly i know we're over but are you good for five ten minutes i got a couple there i wanna yeah ask you alright so you like fintech a lot what's the biggest idea in your head about fintech that either you think is like a viable idea that no one's doing or that you saw in your like holy fuck why didn't i think of that actually the idea that i like the best is mercury bank they may get super easy to have a business account and make everything as close to like an api as you would want i have like bank accounts at bank of america chase first republic silicon valley bank and it's such a pain to set those up they call me and wanna talk to me and understand where the sort of source of funds is i think all of that stuff could be way way better i use them as well the the bank for startups basically it's it's amazing yeah i don't even think of it as a bank for startups it's just bank for every human being that doesn't want a bank of america like experience yeah right like banking without the bullshit right so i think that's a great idea and i think that company is gonna be a multi billion dollar business and i think it's not a winner take market a bunch of other people should start it because it's great idea you can also go outside of fintech so i'll tell you some other ones that you've mentioned along way was like oh that's interesting well one in fintech that you mentioned was that shakes kinda like the stripe for vice stuff like that they can't touch i don't know if that's still interesting to you another one that you mentioned outside of fintech was basically like like the what's it called superhuman for x theory of like you know super what super did for email you could do for like kind of all work tools each individual work tool so are those still both interesting to you or are you kinda like a cooled on those no i like both those ideas stripe device i think is super compelling if you look at the stripe terms of service they're like we will you know support credit cards except for in all of these scenarios like if you're doing marijuana or multi level marketing or all kinds of things that are are forbidden that have like high charge rates like illicit content and i think building a stripe for those people crawl all of those services like only fans and whatever else would be super valuable and i think i was listening to bill early talk about snapchat and why he invested in snapchat and he was like it's the anti facebook when they came in i realized oh there everyone wants to attack facebook nobody can figure out how to attack them their problem is that their content lives forever and these guys are doing fully public yeah they are basically taking what's facebook strength of photographs that you can go look back on years from now and turning that on its head by making content that you want to disappear and what i love about stripe devices is stripe which is an incredibly great business we'll never compete with you because it's in their terms of service that like we will never do these things they want to be the most reputable financial player because of that they're not gonna it would hurt their core to do this it's not just as easy as well they'll just change terms of service it's like well no their strength is their reputation is their state is there's stability as as the financial infrastructure for you and for anyone so so they're not gonna try this yeah and then the super human for x idea is by the way i talked to the owner of only fans and it's the same thing with only fans it's like this is something instagram will never do something snapchat will never do they all have to be you know a certain type of company for wall street now and for their employees like so what we could do is we could say great you know people wanna share photos and videos and those guys are gonna fight to the death for this type of photos and videos and there won't every willing to touch this great it means we are never gonna get attacked by them we'll only get attacked by a smaller people trying to do what we do which is a beautiful position to be in social yeah it's a great way to think of what is a viable concept is think of what is something that the existing company like linkedin or good yeah would never do because it's just anti their identity yeah but would yeah and and go do that the idea of superhuman for x so superhuman as an email client in order to use it you can't just go sign up and start using it you have to actually have somebody from superhuman walk you through the process of using it because it's so complicated that you'd never be able to use it organically yourself and the whole premise is people used to make software for any one of any walk of life to be able to start and use easily within five minutes and now people are spending five hours a day inside super or inside an email client so they need tools that are much more sophisticated that people who are only spending five ten minutes a day in that software whenever ever use super is a great example of this by the way which is that gmail which is trying to be the email for everybody we'll never build the email for the point one percent of power users who are willing to pay fifty dollars a month for their email inbox it's not gmail dna or their strategy or like it's like anti all their strategy is to say let's charge for it and let's make it where it's only useful to the top one percent of our user base it's like and they're not gonna do it yeah and and all of this stuff is only possible i feel like recently because only now are people willing to pay for services like this and also enterprises are willing to pay for software like this so i think super is gonna be a multi billion dollar business because bill go companies like salesforce and sign up all the salesforce employees to be able to go use super and that's just something that you couldn't do with this kind of software like ten fifteen years give me one more what's a space you're really interested in right now that you want if you could spend some more time going down that rabbit hole or you're meeting a bunch of interesting people in that space what spaces are are are standing out to you pharmaceuticals i think pharmaceuticals are today companies like pfizer kind of do two things one is research and development and the other is marketing what if you could kinda d those things so somebody else is doing the research and development but you're building the consumer brand and consumer experience to go do that thing so there's bunch of companies like that do it for acne or him that does it for baldi and things like that but i think that the there'll be a next generation of companies that are doing it for deep medical problems that are life threatening like diabetes and cholesterol and blood pressure those two things are gonna get d and there'll be sort of consumer brands that are built but don't do the r and d what's another space that's really interesting to you besides pharmaceuticals i think that real estate is also really interesting i think that there's a sort of right now people buy and live in homes with like backyard and front yards because that's the way that somebody decided that homes should look like eight a hundred years ago i think that that is now open to interpretation and change so i think there's a bunch of c living concepts but i wonder if you could have like commune with tiny homes on them that's some version of like the together casa or the sort of society like the indian retirement community so i think you could go and build those and what's amazing about those is you just generate more revenue per square foot and more revenue per square foot of land than existing master plan communities do so you can just generate a lot more revenue in some ways the tiny home thing is kinda like what reality tv did for tv which was like tv was going one way which was like okay bigger budgets more famous actors higher production value better script writing and then like reality tv came in which just like again same thing with the facebook thing it's like what is the opposite of what all the big budget production studios are doing and that they they don't understand that they don't wanna do and it's like anti their business model they're out of business if you all of a sudden make everything cheap with no name actors with no script writers with like you know minimal production value and that's what reality tv was and so reality tv came in as this thing that was like really compelling to the consumer but it broke the entire model of what people were doing a tv and so it was like both really cheap to produce and you know was really compelling to the consumer and so reality has stuck around because it nailed both those and i feel like what's happening with stuff like you know either together across or tiny homes and stuff like that it's like like what if people wanted less it's like wait all the home all the developments whether it's you know a skyscraper kind of like fancy condos or big houses in the suburbs it's like what if people wanted to live on a you know random plot of land and tiny you know footprint homes that were minimalist and good for the environment and didn't have a bunch bells whistles and they wanted huge amounts of outdoor space and a community of people that they really cared about rather than just selling to whoever is the top buyer and so i think somebody can create like whatever the equivalent is of reality tv for real estate where you you basically flip the model on its head because consumer tastes are changing at least for you know segments of the population yeah i love it i also went to a berkshire hathaway and you will shareholder meeting and they have a company that makes manufactured homes and i walked they have a sample they have like in omaha they'll set up and manufactured home in the pavilion and i walked through and i was like wow this is really pretty nice home i bet these homes are fifty percent cheaper to build than homes on where you need local labor kind putting the pieces together they are just like legos that you put together on site and they should drop the cost of construction down by fifty percent and then the time to to construct by at least another fifty percent so why aren't those way more popular there's some company that's soft bank invested in called cater that i think is trying to do something along these lines like kind build lego blocks lego building blocks for yeah i think that's that's massive and it makes so much sense like basically like a fundamental level and it's also one of those that's not winner take also so just because someone else is doing it means absolutely nothing there's gonna be many of these they're all gonna be really valuable because construction and homes are just such a giant space and there's if you have the engineering prowess to be able to like actually do it do it well do it fast do it at at cost the right cost then you know you could build a a multi billion dollar company without you know without trying to be the next big thing you know you just have like execute on that simple idea yeah have one more idea that i think is easier to execute than all of these things that we talked about which is title insurance like title insurance is really different than every other kind of insurance most insurance eighty five percent of the premium gets paid back out to people who have been who had whatever problem is being insured against title insurance that's not the case it's like single digits or teens of the premium actually gets paid out paid back out for title insurance and every transaction every real estate transaction in the united states pays for it and it cost thousands and thousands of dollars and it's a line item you see on your closing statement that you're like where did all this money go and what is it actually sure for right any of balls of steel you feel like remove yeah you you and and you know you can't really remove it if you're getting a mortgage mortgage companies are like yeah put this you gotta get that shit so obviously beautiful business to be in if you have it how do you get customers like what would you definitely get customers is it you take a playbook that's working over here and apply it to the field of title insurance or what would you do if you were gonna do this business i would first start with google and facebook ads so first of all what's great about insurance businesses is we talked about for pharmaceuticals kinda decoupling the back end and the front end and all insurance you can do that you can go find a a company that will do all of the actual financial insurance and you can be the front end of marketing and and sort of providing customer service so you can go find a company that will provide and do the underwriting for the insurance and then you can just instead of whatever price is being charged in the marketplace today charge fifty percent less and you'll still be able to make a ton of money and have huge gross margins to be able to build that business i would go find that company and then i would run google and facebook ads anytime somebody is searching for title insurance they should find that you exist ultimately i think when you buy a house it'll be the realtor or the escrow agent or the title company that is kind of providing that title insurance and you need to go and tell them like hey no i wanna use this other third party a bunch of people will go do that and then ultimately maybe you make you find a way to advertise the realtors and give them an affiliate fee i think that's like illegal as a way in the way that the law is constructed but there's gotta be some way to kind of give them a circumvent that yeah yeah exactly and we have one question that's kinda like the famous question on the podcast a hard one to answer so i know if you don't if you don't have an answer to stop yet that's that's okay but i curious to hear your thought process at least on okay here's how i would approach it so the the question is if you had to make a million dollars there's many variations but it's if you're trying to make let's say my first million right you're trying to make a million bucks in in the next twelve months and you have a very small you don't have a bunch of money you could start with so you have let's call it ten twenty grand that you can use up upfront particularly you're not the world's greatest scientist or genius in some way you're not famous so you don't have any of those edges to start with what would you do to try to make a million bucks in a year today i guess the way i think about this is like what's the easiest way to make money with like little risk and little capital required i think one really easy way is go find new saas products that are sexy and raising tons of money and none of those are winner take all markets go find something like intercom or zen or main street and be like great i'm gonna go do this and maybe for some of those services you could go and do it in a sort of without any technology just like human capital for example there's a company called main street and what it does is make it really easy for you to get r and d tax credits if you're a company that employs people and they've gone and built some amount of technology i don't really know how much to do that where they integrate with your payroll provider and figure out what that credit should be there's a whole world of old school services that do this with human beings like i'd go and buy the main street google ad whenever somebody searches for main street i would go put up my own service and market it as cheaper than main street in some way have human beings that go do all of the work in the back end and have a beautiful looking website and i think all of that will cost less than ten or twenty k and in a year you'll have hundreds of thousands of dollars of arr and that'll be worth millions of dollars if you look at your calendar for the last month tell me about the most interesting person or meeting you had in the last thirty days i had a call with this this fund called b f it's based in san francisco what they do is they go invest in publicly traded biotech companies that are working on building a drug or they've got a pipeline of drugs these guys will go do research on the drug and be actually let me take a step back one of my favorite movies is called the big short and in it there are these two guys who are young and have small amount of capital small bank role and they're like we keep trying to find opportunities where the downside is low but the upside is really high if you know something happens these guys do it with by shorting mortgage cd the same concept i think applies really well to drugs and the drug pipelines where if something works that drug ends up being worth ten x or hundred x more valuable than it is today and each incremental step of progress the probability that it's gonna work increases and that gets reflected in the stock price so what b does is they'll go by they'll go do a bunch of research in the actual science and drugs and say okay these ten companies are ones that we believe are actually have a good drug pipeline that drug pipeline is kinda undervalued compared to what it will be like in twenty four months so they'll take a holding a position in that company they'll often hold that holding for three to five years and that drug will make progress through the drug pipeline and they beat the s and p like they constantly beat the s and p through this level of work that they do last year they were up seventy one percent the year before they were up sixty six percent those are they're two best years in kind of that history that's a concept that makes so much sense and like should exist it's it's a really small team of like eighteen people that go manage this three or four billion dollars doing this that just like blew me away as wait a make a one that's great these are the stories that that people love and i like that you said that one because it to me i'm like oh so we if i had heard about them i'd be like oh so you gotta meet these guys you're gonna love them because i think you love the that just makes sense businesses like that where it's like oh yeah that makes sense you're the people to do this and you're fishing we're not everyone else is looking and all three of those are they all sound obvious but they're less common than you'd think there's a lot of ideas that don't make sense they require like multiple miracles and hurdles to be achieved everybody's fishing in those same ponds and or you know the person behind it isn't it the type of person you need to make that type of company successful yeah increasingly when i'm making investments in things like this i'm looking for people who are the top one percent in a very specific and narrow field and they've got like a decade of specialization in that thing so b is a great example this guy that we follow on twitter moses ka who will go he has like six neighborhoods in los angeles and he's like i only buy real estate in these six neighborhoods i only buy four to eight p and i have this very specific way of adding value to you know each property that i buy and so he's just a very specific expert in what he's doing and in order to compete with him you have to like learn ten specific things and be like narrowly focused on something for a decade so i constantly now try to do that which is funny by the way because you're you're not that right you're the opposite you're like a hyper generalist who you know we'll do a different thing we'll start from zero every decade in terms of like your mindset your skill in that field and whatever else and be like cool i'm am gonna win even though i i don't even i even spell all the thing i'm working on right now but i'm gonna win anyways so what's up for that how are those two things so different yeah it's really funny because my brother started a deodorant company and when he started it our cousin asked him like you know do you know anything about deodorant and he was like no i know shit about deodorant but talk to me in twelve months and i will be one of the world's experts in deodorant and i will know everything that there's was no deodorant and you know he did i think my life would be better served actually if i was able to be like yeah i'm been focus on this very specific narrow thing for a decade like i become the top one percent in that thing in the world for me for some reason i think i have two problems one is i like immediate gratification so i just don't like to wait that long to be like yeah this is working and successful and then secondly i'm too curious about like too many other things in old the reason i first started making investments was i felt like there all these people doing interesting things in the world and i was narrowly focused on making my company successful and investments was a way for me to release that like anxiety enabled pressure that i had of fo on all of the other things that people were doing and in fact i think i still have that fo and i still invest for that exact same reason but now i really look for these like one percent experts decade invested jerry narrow specific scope of expertise i did this last week so i won't go into the details of it but i we we have the segment we usually call billy of the week it's like it's a kind of like who's the billionaire what's their story how how'd they do it what makes them interesting and last week i did it's not on a billionaire but it was on this woman who did the who like basically pioneered the technique that's needed for this covid vaccine i don't know if you've heard her story but it's insane you should go and look her up her for i've forgot how you say her name was like caroline or catalina whatever and understand hungarian scientist basically her the short story is like thirty years ago she was like oh my god this mrna technique is really interesting and a cat car that's her name so she's like this this technique is really interesting she starts look you know looking into it doing research on it and then like kind of in the nineties science has all these like sciences like fashion it just gives like different sectors go in and out of v and so this went out of v is was like a there's no application for this not no hope there and she's like well what are you talking about we're making so much progress this is actually great and so she keeps working on it even though there's no funding there's no jobs available and she like turns down all these other opportunities to like stay focused on this mrna technique she eventually publishes a paper there's like a lost decade where she's like bootstrapping this herself determined to find a way publishes a paper saying look this actually like shows really promising results and three different people read that paper enacted on it one is in stanford in california they go start modern another one is is in you know wherever in europe and they start other they're bio tech and they hired her as like chief scientist basically and give her shares they also created a a vaccine out of this you know three different multi billion dollar company started based off of this like kind of paper that she published but it was just the determination of staying in this field and being like no i'm not gonna go do crispr now because that's what's interesting that's what's hot i'm gonna like stay focused on this thing and like now she'll probably win the nobel prize but you know that's like kind of like heroic to me and like so inspiring and so different than anything i do but there's a piece of that that i i like crave you know yeah yeah i'm jealous and admired people who have that kind of like focus for decades like if i could focus on my marriage the way she focused on mrna vaccines i you know i'll have a happy marriage type to focus on anything for that long and states have the conviction in the face of all of your peers all of the funding goes away and you stick with it like that's that's amazing to me yeah that's insane one of the other things that i find funny about life now is so i've been doing been an entrepreneur for maybe thirteen fourteen years now and so i've got a bunch of friends who are similar who've been doing entrepreneurship for a decade all of them are rich and successful now all of them started businesses that failed and had real pain especially at the beginning and all along the way so i really believe that entrepreneurship is one of those things where if you stick at it for a decade you will succeed i don't know if you're gonna be rich in year nine or seven or two or one but by year ten i believe that you're gonna be rich if you actually stick with it with that same level of focus that she has on mrna i was neville has this quote just somebody he goes like entrepreneurial efforts fail but entrepreneurs don't fail in the long run like when you stick with it for ten years eventually you hit he's like this is what i've seen in silicon valley many entrepreneurs efforts even by great entrepreneurs fail but great entrepreneurs rarely rarely ever fail in the end you know like the the fifteen years that you play you eventually figure out learn enough and get enough variance to go your way where you win and i think that's that's very that's i mean that's what happened for me too like first startup was at twenty one zero you know outcomes of of of like anything notable and it's not like i've won in some big wait but it's i've won enough where i'm comfortable for my life now by thirty one and you i'm thirty two now and i'm just thinking about okay cool what's the next ten years look like but like that twenty one to thirty one it happened when i turned thirty one it didn't happen at you're at eight seven six five like i'm that motherfucker it took the whole ten but you know but i stuck it out the full ten and you know ended up at the point where even though you know it's like you know whatever the malcolm glad ten thousand hours it's more like ten thousand gray hairs it's like yeah it is stressful and you do have to put in the work but like i think you're absolutely right that the people who play the game long enough you know sort of self selecting in a way like the people who for whom this is not the right game they can't stay for the ten years they can't make it the ten years but for people who are like no i like doing this i'm good at this i'm getting better at this it's just a matter of time yeah the other thing that as weird is now i feel like i understand i have this friend andrew green who i worked with the tiny and he works at injuries h now and he said to me you know i just didn't understand how the game is played like i didn't understand the dynamics like he didn't i didn't understand what venture capital is i didn't understand what people look for in a company before they invest and he's like nobody like taught me these elements of the game and if i did i'd be so far ahead and i think same i feel often in the same way which is like i learned it all the hard way what's amazing is that with time a lot of things get easier today's generation i feel like has access to all this knowledge and information that i didn't have i feel like people ten years older than me must feel that same way of like i had it so much easier than they did but now i feel like i have such a better understanding of like the matrix and how it works i see all this opportunity constantly where i'm like this is such an easy way to you know make a business that is worth ten million bucks and that i could take somebody who has like very little skill and no knowledge but just the motivation and raw intellectual horsepower and be like work with me and focus on this specific thing and in you know three year five year period or less i will make you a millionaire error and i feel like i could do that with you know ten or twenty people today based on random ideas that i have yeah i i see other people doing this too like heathrow boy he like did this with open door and a you know much bigger scale than what i'm talking about but i think that's such a really like as you like learn over time as an entrepreneur you just connect dots and you connect dots that the rest of the world hasn't connected and you're able to see an opportunity and be like this is just such a simple clear way to do this you said something actually in the first podcast that at stuck with me because i didn't see the world that way not like i saw the opposite i never heard anyone say something like that and it kinda stood out to me and it ever since said i was like okay i'm gonna choose to see the world that way too which as you go you go now you go at the beginning i didn't know what the fuck i was doing i was blind just running you know banging on my head in the walls i don't know what you're saying but you're like today i just need to see opportunities everywhere like my ears are overflowing with opportunities and i remember thinking like what does he mean by that like he's right there actually is just a million different ways to win different winning solutions that you could go to which is like so different than where i was before even like last three years when i was just trying to make my own fucking company working and it wasn't working i was just trying to make it work trying to make it work and at the time the world felt like is there even one way to make this work is there even one winning solution because it's not working for me and i don't see it you know and then when you hear somebody say the exact opposite which is like oh my god i i'm limited by time and how many hands i have on my body like you know there are so many different ways to win i could be winning over there winning over here and it wasn't even in an arrogant way i think he genuinely believed that like i wasn't you saying i'm great therefore i can win it was oh my god there are just so many opportunities where do i go and when i heard that i was like gonna be that guy i'm gonna be the guy who sees a million opportunities wherever i go and like literally so much has changed like if i map out it took me ten years to make my first million and then six months to make the next next million and then you don't more you know like it's been basically just getting faster and faster since then because you know part of it is the minds part of it is like you accumulate some knowledge and you accumulate a network and things like that but a big part of it is just literally believing that there are so many ways to make a bunch of money and be successful have a great time and if you look at the world that way you'll start to see them everywhere i i i really believe that because that's what happened to me after you set it and i started to be like that's now my philosophy too i don't it's not even true yet but i'm gonna say it until it's true yeah it's great i remember my brother my brother was a lawyer and some friend of his became partner or somebody knew became partner at some law firm and he was like wow this person is now gonna start making you know three million dollars a year because their partner and they're gonna you know just do this for the rest of their life until they retire and he was just like you know mind blown and was like wow can you believe that i was like yeah that's amazing that they're gonna do that but they've kind of capped out in terms of what they're gonna be able to make per year because this is the profession they're in they're gonna kinda keep doing this thing but he's an entrepreneur and so i was like just like we were not gonna get capped out like just imagine if the sort of income per year keeps compounding as we learn and like reinvest to our capital in in new ideas and that's kinda what's happened over time like in twenty twenty i think twenty twenty was one of my highest earning years in life i think that's just gonna keep happening and it's not that you worked any harder in twenty twenty to or it's not that you worked any harder or unlocked some special new insights or anything like that that's not the cause right it's yeah basically compounding is is the primary credit goes to compounding it's just compounding of things that i understood and like reapply that compounding in thoughtful and intelligent ways and that's like my own entrepreneurial endeavors or now i get to a place where i i hear of a company and i'm like oh that is gonna work and like i just believe that that's gonna work and yeah that just wasn't the case for me five years ago or ten years ago just couldn't understand those dots and like you said i don't think i'm i'm not saying that i'm special or smart or anything like that i i'm just saying it comes with like experience and time an open mind that's constantly looking to connect dots that's great okay we can wrap it up so i i went way over the time i asked you for so just a smooth forty seven minutes over over time all good sweet alright i gotta go work out time