#134 - Why the Collectables Market is Booming, Ecommerce 3.0, and "Time Billionaire" Explained

u yeah i feel like i could rule where i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days on a goal travel never look came bag sam you've moved to texas like i don't know how many weeks ago three weeks ago and you look like a regular old texas turkey right now so let me describe so sam wearing a cam hat the says terry black's barbecue in austin texas and then he's got like a vest like hunting like almost like a hunter best i'll call it he's got a wood background behind him and he's drinking a top chico whatever that is top chico okay i am that is a fair way to make fun of me i do look very t right now i would say i always probably look t but top chico have you heard this thing no what is it oh my god so i'm not a carbonated water guy someone gave us to me the other day made out of it's like in texas i think maybe in austin or all of texas it's like considered it it's very very very popular every restaurant and like food truck has it it's this water that's carbonated but it's carbonated in a different way to where the bubbles are the most aggressive bubbles and it like it hurts a little bit and i it feel it like hurts so good you've never heard a top with chico no it's you've tried this or no you guys have never heard of okay i even had heard of it ryan holiday tweets about it and like it has a cult following and i'm one of the followers now i get it it's like i didn't understand it for a long time but it's so good i've been drinking like ten a day dude you gotta get your random food thing that you always tweet about i was like what do mean he goes hey he goes look at all these twitter personalities they all have this like you know they talk about business all the time but then they're really obsessed with one thing he's like you like pops really obsessed with domino's always tweeting about domino's pizza ryan hoover was always talking about lac croix and he's like you gotta get your food thing and i was like oh well easy chick f a like yeah i'm gonna try about chick all the time i already do i really love it and so chick is gonna be my thing he's like perfect because you're gonna need some people who love it and some people who are like not so we're in and i hate it that's not a very controversial choice like that's like you been don't be controversial it just needs to be talk not talked about enough like people people aren't talking about it i think you just have food thing i don't know i agree with what ben's point but your selection is so weak like that's just like such an easy one tell me about my backup my backup was ci that's way better that's very controversial i think ci is horrible it's a new it's a new england thing man like the people in in new york love eating that crap i've gotten it i guess stations like from a ci store no no no not not like a cinnamon bun a ci it's like a different thing yeah like that brand yeah the brand i think it's horrible oh dude i will cut you with this box cutter i have on my desk right now for saying no i think that they're it's way too sweet so good we found our okay good yeah oh couple things one before this podcast we tried using riverside riverside ceo i think he listens sometimes dude great idea it's still we had issue this segment is called fix y shit and you need shit riverside dot fm we can't use it to record our podcast yet the way that we record those pods it's overly complicated so we record locally on quick time and then we have the video on zoom it's just a pain in the ass yeah and and i feel like ten companies have tried to fix this and nobody really has but we should do anti sponsorship on every episode just a product that's driving us nuts right now a product that's dropping the ball which is cool for them because like we wanna use it it's like right cool idea cool idea poor execution right now don't even hit me up because i've been false promised five times i five different products about this yeah so that's not working out and second of all i looked at our numbers first of all numbers are going up going up and up and up i think yesterday's podcast we recorded monday or sorry yeah monday wednesday i think that was one of the fast this one's to hit about twenty thousand listens like organically right now you know spotify put out that like year end summary thing how cool is that that somebody people are screenshot us that they're most listened to thing on spotify is our podcast and it'll be like whatever like four thousand hours listen it's great frankly i find it uncomfortable i find it weird i think it's strange it's really strange i almost get a little nervous because i have like business associates like customers or coworkers and it's like katie hu one of our coworkers i was like in the top five of hers a couple of people and i'm like don't you guys get enough of me why are you listening to this crap so i told you i worked with this guy ben right he's like kinda of like my i'm right man on different content projects i do different random masks like side projects basically so his wife was just like who's this guy that just like came into your life and all of sudden you guys are working together on stuff and like you're talking on at late at night on zoom calls or whatever and then he was like okay yeah i'm gonna go run this errand and and he came back in the house and he was wearing his headphones and then she was like what are listening to and he's was like oh like you know the podcast she's like wait so when you're not talking him you're listening to his podcast like no no this is too much and he was like okay i understand that sounds weird but i'm not listening to him i'm just listening to the ideas of the podcast i just like the idea and she was weird quite weird the other day we have to have jack butcher come on here because he's one of the more interesting people i'll hung out with lately yeah so i became friends with him in nashville and it's one of those things you know like when your wife and you each like the couple which is like rare because sometimes it's like it's like a multiplier right and so that was one of those things where him and his wife and my wife we all like each other so we became friends very quickly and he drove down from nashville to celebrate thanksgiving with us so we had like a a four sum but not i i i realized i i was about to say that that i was like that's sounds i a lot weird you know like a four of us had thanksgiving together right yeah sorry that it came off wrong and then a dinner like four the four of us celebrate it together and they told me that they listened to the podcast on the way down and on the way up and i was like that's really like that's so strange why are you you don't need you need less of of me probably not more well i think the only thing that can take away our fame is us just talking about how it's cool all these things are happening that's probably making for the most boring podcast podcasts unless you have something to to spin off that otherwise we should just switch stop let's switch topics i'll go first okay alright so while do mine and then we're gonna do a segment called time billionaires because i saw that title last time and it's very interesting something that i've been thinking about is writing tools and the reason i've been thinking about them is so there's this company called rome rome research they don't call themselves a bread tool they call themselves like a way to map out your brain i think which is probably true but like in essence it's a glorified to do list yep and then there's notion which is i'm being overs i'm overs simplifying it but it is a writing tool it is a yeah it is a yeah a note taking app and when i say writing i mean note taking up there's a lot to it so notion raised money at nearly a one billion dollar valuation they probably only had ten million in revenue rome raised money at a quarter of a billion dollar valuation i bet you they only had one or two million in revenue so these apps are these like web apps these to do list are getting stupid valuations stupid stupid stupid maybe it won't be stupid but stupid in terms of extreme not a to do list right they are more more general for representative of to do list well but here's my grip or at least not great but thing i wanna bring up which is there's a lot of things that do stuff just like them maybe not as good but very similar and so i went and found like a whole bunch of to do writing ish apps and they're kind of shocking to me how many there are out there and some of them are can be okay businesses for small groups and i wanted to hear about why or for like a a niche type of person why do you think that these two are get valued so high and i have a list of a few others that are incredibly interesting and i think that there's some opportunity here so first let me tell you about one of them real quick and i want need to jump in with your pin which is sc have you heard a sc i don't know if it's sc or sc have you heard of it i've heard the name i've never used it though he's it similar to a notion or is it different it's similar to a notion i bought it it's pretty cool a lot of people swear by it but i wanna tell you a stat that's pretty crazy and i'm pulling up my evernote to read this so there's another one so there's this guy named joseph i think his name is joseph michael he made half a million dollars a year selling a course on how to use sc is that crazy yeah there's a guy doing that on rome right now i don't know how much he's making but we've talked about him before he's got a how to use rome research course and i think he's crushing it g it's created by this guy i think it's a one person show i think he lives in washington he's an engineer and you pay a one time fee of like twenty dollars to download the software and then it's a desktop thing crazy simple very effective cult following i think there's a big like someone should actually just buy that business and make it better just barely better so i see that there's about page so there's keith who's a founder he's the one who made the mac app in the ios app so there's one person who's leads a windows developer two people sorry window two windows developers and then there's one two three four five six seven customer support people and one sales director so i think it's probably evolved a little bit but barely probably for many years it was yeah just just as one one or two people and it is still only two engineers right three engineers totally yeah pretty crazy i found this thing this guy made a list of like sixty seven of these and like try to list out their revenue and stuff there's so many of them it's kinda wild to me yeah so okay so what we're you wanna talk about more of the independent kinda builder thing whether think we talked about that i think let's let's talk about the writing side of things okay so first why the hell did notion and rome like take off like this i would say if i was gonna boil it down i'd boil it down to two factors the first is like the general rule of the internet which is that to the victor goes all the spoils so most people have a hard time wrapping their head around this because in the real world you know you make the best restaurant in town you're gonna win just your town and really not even your whole town you're gonna win just dinner just in this like kinda just isn't this one you know strip of of restaurants really is where you're gonna you're gonna win the most and on the internet there's no like geographic boundary so the best person of any one thing the best tool the best teacher the best whatever is gonna get everybody they're gonna get the majority of the market to use them because if i'm gonna pick i might as well pick the best one might as well pick the best most well known one or i might as well know if it's a course i might as well learn from the most well known the best course rather than than the second place so because there's no geography on the internet if you're the best in the world you get to accrue almost all of the value and you get to sell everywhere so that's why these tools in general get quite big quite quickly like why would why would notion gets so big well if everybody's using a note taking app and notion becomes the best one it's gonna win now what makes it the best one i think what they did well it was the same thing we talked about last time which is social software or multiplayer software where basically notion was good because it wasn't just your notes app like the one that comes stock on your computer because it was like a word doc you could it was like google doc sorry you could share it just with a link to anybody else so sharing became easy and then not just sharing we can both actually write on the same thing so collaborating became easy and the notion goes even further like for a while our podcast website actually even now maybe the podcast website was just a notion doc that i turned into a website because i like i wanna learn how to build a website let me just type on this document and then push like publish and now that's now if you go to you know my first million podcast dot com i think it probably still is just a notion doc that's up there that's kind of the the main thing that they got right and then the the thing you said about roam i think is an important point which is like it's not just a to do list app which it's not just a note taking app it's meant to be like your brain you know put it onto to a a computer or your your brain put on onto the internet so it's like the key with rome is that you link ideas together so all the other note taking apps were just you write a note that's just a note on its own but in rome it's like wikipedia when you write a note you can reference a different note and so it creates this web so all your ideas which your ideas and your brain are connected so rome lets you connect your ideas in your notes as well that's live the sales pitch at least so i disagree with the point you made about the what what did you say the spoiled on the internet the spoils go to the picture goes to spoils yeah yeah so there's actually i'm gonna steal this from a great blog have you ever read joel on software yes okay so joel on software is written by this guy named joel what's his last name sp yeah sp key okay so this guy is so interesting to me because so he started this agency that built websites for people in the early two thousands maybe in the late nineties i know exactly but when the internet was get going and from that agency he spun off many different things including some bug tracking software that probably made him quite wealthy i don't even remember the name of it the other one that became popular was trello which ended up selling for six hundred million dollars the other one was stack exchange right yeah stack overflow and stack overflow stack exchange yep which is huge and then i also think i always get these confused discord or discourse not discord must be discourse okay right i think or there was like three other things spun off it like oh billions of dollars with the value created off of it anyway he's got this great blog and he's a very good writer he's very to the point and i like him a lot and he's got this blog this post always stuck with me and it was called strategy letter one ben and jerry's versus amazon and he basically says what if you're building a company you've got a very important decision to make because it affects everything else you do you have to figure out which camp you're in you have to decide are you in the ben and jerry's model or the amazon model and the ben and jerry's model is basically or the amazon model is basically you have to get big fast because you're using some type of new competition or new technology where there's very little at first and the winner takes all type of market but then there's the other ben jerry's model where there's a market that already has a whole lot of competition and customers can pick more than one there's very little network effect there's very weak customer lock in whereas with amazon it's a much stronger network in fact customers get locked in anyway things like that and so for ben jerry's very little capital required you can break even pretty quickly with amazon you need to spend a shit ton of money in order to get big yada yada and so with these note taking apps i actually think that they are in the ben and jerry's model not the amazon model where you have to get huge fast and once you take the market you have everyone because evernote was like this never ended up being a horrible company i think i guess what i'm saying is like evernote reach the billion dollar plus you know value mark notion is gonna reach that rome is probably gonna reach that and if you compare that to the sc and the hemingway ways and the other kind of like indie kinda apps they won't amount for one percent of the total market cap of this industry of the total market size of the of of that industry and so i think while it's true that you can go the sort of simple independent profitable don't chase kind of like this growth dragon path in reality if you just looked if you zoomed out and you looked at okay where'd all the in this note taking or this like kind of like this writing software market where did all the money go it's gonna look like ninety nine percent to one or two players and then everything you know one percent shared by a hundred players yeah probably although i was still very shocked at how many there were so i found like a few that were interesting which is agenda dot com badass domain name the great domain name it seems like they might be huge i find this other one called campfire fire tech have you heard of this no look it up it's pretty interesting oh sorry i got the wrong one campfire tech is another one that has thirty thousand users and does a million revenue sorry this is a different one it's called seventy seven hundred fifty words so google seven fifty words tell me what you see i see seven words dot com right every day it says join whoa five hundred thousand other writers by signing up but now i kinda believe that actually because sometimes she will just bullshit that number but let's believe it so what is this all about said about developing the habit of writing every day yeah so i think it's just a prompt that says write seven fifty words a day he said something like he has thousands of people who have done it every single day for like five years it's pretty incredible i'm gonna build a tool like this someday i know this is like in my future like i just built this chrome extension and well i didn't do it my friend jake did it and i love it and a whole bunch of people who likes to my newsletter are using it and they love it too and it's a such like the most dead simple thing there's no money involved it's so free free thing but what is i wanna build more soft i wanna build more a little mini tools that just are like extensions of my life or my philosophy is it's a c session called focus and my to do list philosophy is called one big thing it's like i do i do one big thing every day the beginning of the day i figure out what's the one big thing if i did just that one thing my day is a win and if i do that for three sixty five days in a year i'll you know it's like fort us in the hair i'll out outsource all these like ultra productivity nerds who are trying to like do these complex systems and these long to do list and like they're using pom timers to like optimize all their time mine is really simple figure out the one highest impact thing i can get done today do that one thing anything else i do is gravy if i don't get that one done i failed and that system works for me so this is a it's a chrome extension that basically every time you open a new tab it's just a beautiful photo and it says good morning sean your one big thing for today is and it let you type it in and then every time you open a new tab it'll just show you that one thing and then if you're done with it you hit done and it like celebrates and then there's one line at the bottom that'll just like random all these like random little phrases i wrote that were like you know get it done like a none on sunday or like you know make it happen cabin or whatever just like a little line is that's it is so simple but for people who want to adopt my system i made software basically that helps them use my system and i i made it for myself do you have google analytics installed on it no we have nothing installed on it okay so i really made the both even if you search the crow the chrome extension probably only even find it yet it's called focus did i tell you heavily i don't know i think i did it here did i pull up the analytics on our little chrome thing as you did i remember you it was crazy it was like i don't know a quarter million page views per month or something like that no i think which more it's gotten sixty million page views in the last two years so many like that so like with your thing if you get that was we only had at most eight thousand users so like with just a couple thousand users you can get stupid amounts of on these chrome extensions so what i'm gonna do is i'm trying to make these tools that i like give them away for to other people either for free year for a small amount this one's for free and then just like think about how i could add more value so for example like we're gonna add a thing that like in the middle of the day it'll pop almost like calm it'll be like here's a two minute just break just a relaxation breaks put your headphones in this just relaxing sounds even if you don't know how to meditate just take two minutes to like rest and recharge for a second here while you're in the middle of your workday and so we're gonna add these little just little droplets into the chrome extension or like if i write a new blog post i'll be able to promote it through this and the good thing is the only people using this already like my content anyway so it's not like i'm forcing it on people who don't really know about this it's like for the community to be able to access stuff easier yeah i've said this for a while i think that like these chrome extensions are some of the more stickier products that you could possibly make and i also think that they cost a way little money compared to building just a normal software thing or a normal app so i'm i think that these chrome extensions are great ideas there's a great chrome sense idea in the trends group yesterday or they've four i don't know if you saw but you try to pull this guy's name up this guy was like hey i'm gonna build honey for saving you money on saas software so what does that mean alright so honey is this chrome extension you install it and then as you shop online it like goes and looks for like discounts or cheaper prices of the same product and it's like wait you know before you buy it here's a ten percent off coupon or go here and it's cheaper or something like that i don't really use honey but that's my understanding of it and honey was like a billion dollar outcome three four billion dollar right like how much is it four billion but i thought it was four i think it's three four billion by paypal i believe so this is smart because what he's doing is saying oh you're going to mailchimp or you're going to whatever the saas tool you're using is that has some monthly fee and he's gonna try to save you money and so he knows my marketing pitches okay so i found found the guy's name is it his name is sean mc and i love this idea like i invest in this idea if he's like actually gonna build this so he's calling it loot and it's honey for buying software and it helps you find discounts or credits on top of all the popular software tools you use like aws slack hubspot and more and his pitch was like instantly saved ten thousand a year on software tools stop over paying luke will find you discounts on the stuff you already use so where does he get the discounts so i think what he's gonna do i don't know i haven't like looked into it but either there already are discounts available if you like go search you know sort of like coupons that are out there for the public or first time customer discounts or whatever or there's affiliate deals already in place and it's just gonna be like wait don't sign up use my affiliate deal saves you money and i get or i get a kick back and i'll save you the money according to it so i don't know exactly how he's gonna get the discounts but i think it's a great this is a great great concept yeah it's quite interesting i know a little bit about the space because we looked into doing like a buyer's club for software we were gonna monetize off the subscription but obviously if you can get affiliate it make it'd be far better to have millions of users or hundreds of thousands of users you know sort of like honey or something like that it's quite interesting another person doing this and he's a good friend of mine but what i'm saying i've just learned by going on their website apps sum the apps sum business model was basically they got hundreds of thousands of people's email address or they got them to sign up to the email and the idea was group on for geek so basically we're gonna give you discounts on software and they would negotiate these deals with vendors and they sent it out to their list and then apps sum would keep fifty or sixty or seventy percent of the gross revenue that they drove to that software provider how big business is apps well on a recent podcast he said it was thirty million in sales but i don't know if that means gross or net if i had to imagine if had a guess i would guessed that means gross sales and they keep probably sixty five to seventy percent of so what's seventy percent of thirty million dollars is that then i would imagine that they're in the range of fifteen to twenty million in actual sales i like the chrome extension approach for this because i think you don't have to remember to go do anything it's just gonna pop up and say hey by the way do you wanna save on this site you're on and yeah i'm into saving in general there there's a there's a trend towards some cool saving products so one is do not pay we've talked about that by the guy joshua yeah i used it try to get out of some tickets it's okay i like the concept though and i think they've done well with traction so far of like hey well un unsubscribe you from things we'll help you get out of parking tickets they just released one like a really niche one that i need which is like eighty three b filings oh that's cool yeah so you you know because it's such pain that ask you have to print it out you can mail it to the irs so they'll just do it for you do not pay is one saving thing main street is killing it so i looked at investing them ended up passing but i really like doug and i like what they're doing which is like they connect to your kind your books your quickbooks your payroll software and then they they go and they like there's all these government r and d credits like there's all these different tax credits that you can go get you know if you took the time you did the paperwork all that stuff so they just know what all those are and then they look at your payroll and your quick and they say oh you're eligible for this because you have one developer working out of idaho did you know that there's idaho state credit for engineers that are hired in idaho and they'll just do it for you and now they're even doing it even better which is like they just look at your stuff and they just give you like an instant money they'll just be hey here's ten grand now and they might make twenty grand off of it but like here's ten grand for you right now instantly without doing any work and so i think that's a model that's designed to grow very very fast i will probably regret not investing in that one honey is is that was saver that was main street you said yeah that's main street i'm on their website right now it looks pretty slick looks good they've advertise with us and like doug in the trends group you think this is gonna be huge yeah i i initially was like i think this is gonna be i think i was like i think this is worth a bet but then the valuation kept going up like just in the our back and forth of our emails i was a little slow he was a little slow so can kept going up and for better for worse this unless this like fucked up psychology where if you thought you're were getting it at ten dollars and now you're getting it for twenty five dollars you're just like anchored to the ten even if twenty five is a fair price now it feels like in a massive over pay to me now because i know a month ago i could've got this at ten and so even if i think it's gonna be worth seventy five it's just hard to buy at twenty five even then which which is weird let's actually talk about let's talk about that and then time billionaires so that's an interesting topic so i remember when our company just got started and i remember the first year business we made close to half a million dollars in revenue mh i don't remember what our expenses were but soon after that our expenses raised to like i remember thirty eight grand one month and i was like oh my god thirty eight thousand dollars and then soon after the second year in revenue we did two to half million and so it's good growth and we are profitable but i remember like going from thirty eight thousand a month in burn or expenses to eighty thousand and i went to nerd wall nerd wall the founders is one of our investors i went to his office and i go hey and his office is the former twitter office and nerd wall makes so much money and they have this like big cafeteria and it was lovely and they like built it they probably spent two million dollars i i don't even know millions of dollar building out this cafeteria and i go tim like it's crazy we went from thirty seven thousand to eighty thousand like took so much money humor me and enacted at all like shocked he's like oh my god that's so much money but he was like look at the end of the day like stop thinking that's like your like don't think of it as like that's how much you spend in your personal life or and that was a really hard concept for me to understand because i remember thinking like i've never bought myself a new computer in my life i've always bought used shit and i would like tweet out like hey who's gotta use laptop i could buy and i was this for the business like thirty times anyway that idea of getting over like certain numbers was a huge barrier to me have you had that same thing by the way particularly now when we're talking about our company we're doing like our revenues we're gonna try to do this and then this or we're gonna try and sell eventually for this much of money like that's really hard to overcome some of those like mental barriers around money yeah there's there's a whole bunch of a mine haven't been those exact ones but they're more like the one i was talking about is like the cheap indian person in me wants everything at a deal and so as soon as something gets either fairly priced or overpriced even if it's still gonna be a good net investment i find it super hard to pull the trigger actually in fact i just now i've been accumulating a very for me large position in bitcoin and i'm basically buying like you know last five days in a row i bought twenty five thousand dollars worth of bitcoin just like every morning i just wake up i bought twenty five thousand i hit my limit on coinbase base of how much i can buy a bitcoin for a long time it was really hard for me to buy bitcoin even though i believe in bitcoin but it's like when i first bought bitcoin it was like in the three hundred four hundred dollar range you know now it's nineteen thousand dollars per coin right so i'm spending twenty five k i'm getting one point one six bitcoin or whatever like some tiny amount of coin for it but for a long time i just held back because i was like well i bought in at the four hundred dollar mark and instead of increasing my position as i got more bullish i was dude it's nine thousand dollars for coin right now i'm not gonna it seems weird just at nine thousand when i bought all these other ones for four hundred like with a stupid decision when in reality like it's progressed it's actually i have higher conviction now there's more proof points now there's more adoption now it's worth more i found it really really hard to do and in fact i was telling ben i was like hey ben i'm making a very big bet on bitcoin i'm mean gonna look like a total fool or i'm gonna get rich off this bet in the next three years and i said i like here's the reason why i'm into it and you know why i'm doing it if you wanna do it too and he was basically like it sucks to buy like if i put ten thousand dollars into bitcoin right now i'm getting half a bitcoin he's like maybe i'd rather buy ethereum because at least with ethereum i'm getting ten of them and i'm like well it doesn't matter like yeah doesn't matter he's like but it's just site he's like he's like i wonder how many people are gonna have this same weird psychology which is why for example stocks do stock splits because like now you can do fractional share buying now on almost every platform but still tesla doesn't wanna be a two thousand dollar three thousand dollar stock wants to be a three hundred dollar stock because more people will want to buy three hundred dollars a share and buy ten shares rather than one share for three thousand dollars and so this is weird psychology around that that i've run into a whole bunch and it has ended up costing me a lot of money because i've passed on investments either in start or bitcoin or ethereum where i should have been increasing my position but i was too tied to the original price that i could have got in at yeah and that's something that i've been struggling to get over the same exact thing of eu where it's like why is that a emotion tied to that thing if the math makes sense another example is i just bought a house and i paid nine let's say a million dollars for nine eighty i think i forget exactly but something like that and i was looking at the trailing fifteen years of annual growth right and then i was looking at how much i think i can rent it out for and i was looking at the irr i'm like okay that's fascinating and then i was like making another like kind of a risky bet that it doesn't matter if it happens or that but i'm like i think this house in ten years or so could maybe sell for one point six and i told that to my austin friends and they're like there's no way anyone was gonna pay one point six for a home in that neighborhood in austin and i was like well why not would we like the if the math the trailing fifteen years says this why wouldn't it and also do you think that people thirty years ago what said there's no when someone's gonna pay a million dollar like million dollars right which is probably true right like if you like if you like look at like and then i told my broker that he was yeah that's always he goes for example my dad plays in new york for eighty thousand it's not worth over a million people always think that and it's really hard to understand compound growth and i thought that is totally true it's hard for me as well by the way if in ten years something you're saying essentially goes up like sixty percent that's actually quite bad well for for a residential property i think that well it's fine for it's fine for it it might just be what a property does and what i'm saying the way to look at it is alternatively if i just rent this place now at the market rates and i i that goes up by this much per year and i just invest this in the stock market at the sort of average seven or eight percent return my money will double in right so i think in at ten percent a year in seven years double tip the tip the market's is right around the six and a half mark over the trailing hundred years so it doubles about every ten or eleven years right i think it's i thought it was eight percent when i had last looked maybe maybe like since since the gold standard or whatever something like a a fairly big difference if i say all time versus those trailing thirty years so it's like which segment of time do you wanna look at but it's in the range of let's say let's say six to eight which is a ballpark so basically it's ten year ten years to double right and so if you're going up sixty percent in ten years with your house you could have doubled your money you could gone up a hundred percent so if you had just done the the nothing you know path of like put it in the market don't have to maintenance don't have to deal with anything right which is why i think unless you're gonna rent it out and make income from it buying a home is typically a bad investment right but you did anyways you just wanna to and i'm renting it out but you're landing it gotcha i'm i'm renting it out and also i wanted to like if it doesn't make money i don't give a shit and i want texas residency and all types of stuff yeah that that makes sense okay cool i like that do you wanna talk about being a time billionaire yeah have you seen this do you know what i'm gonna talk about here no i don't but the it's a really good headline okay so i kinda love this concept i kinda hate it kinda love it's corny but i love it that's the disclaimer so i was so scrolling on twitter and there's this guy blake robbins i don't know if you follow them and he tweeted out this thing i thought it was pretty interesting so he was he had grabbed a screenshot of a tim ferris podcast where tim ferris hugs guy graham duncan and he's like he goes tim ferris is like time billionaire like what do you mean by that he's like well i'll say about this concept this guy was pointing out the difference between a million and a billion and he's like a million seconds is eleven days right not very long a million seconds is eleven days but a billion seconds is thirty one years this is like kind of like that's the difference between of a millionaire and a billionaire is it's like there's this huge factor difference right so okay so million and a billion or different what's the big deal is like well i think about that when i you know when i see billionaires or see a twenty year old and it goes here's the thought experiment right you could take like warren buffett or rupert murdoch these is like dinosaurs were eighty to eighty nine ninety years old and they're like you know have like a hundred billion dollars if you ask them hey would you give up everything you give up all your money but you get to be a a broke twenty year old would you do it and like absolutely they would instantaneously do it and if you asked to broke twenty year old would you switch spots with warren buffett you could have everything warren buffett has but you're gonna be you're you gonna you're gonna be his age and you're gonna you're gonna be warren buffett buffet and you could have his fame you could have his fortune but you're eighty ear i don't know how more about buffett it is like ninety four something like that close to dying yeah you could be that old and like the twenty year old would be absolutely foolish to take it right and it just really points out that like although we kinda like glorify the billion dollars and all that stuff like clearly youth and time is the asset right to the point where a broke twenty year old a broke thirty year old even would never trade spots with warren buffett and warren buffett would instantly trade spots with a twenty year old or a thirty year old or even a forty year old probably so i think that's a kind of fascinating but it to me it brought up two things so that's just kind of like the oh wow you know time is the real asset you know like youth is the real asset it brought up to me like this idea that i had heard from somebody else which is a there's there's many kinds of billionaires and so this guy calls them dollar billionaires right so there's a dollar billionaire which means you have a billion dollars this guy tyler cohen has a thing called cultural billionaires which is basically like i believe i've looked too far it but let's just assume it is what it sounds like which is that like you have an influence so your cultural impact theresa it's like a billion people right well most teresa is actually a different one which is like could you be a helpful billionaire right could you help a billion people impact a billion people that way and impact billionaire and then there's others which is just like sort of like a a time billionaire and so i like this concept and it's interesting when you put it that way because you're like well which one do i really wanna be and what am i optimizing for like right like i have a friend we have a friend su who said you know i heard this guy say this once and i thought oh this is true when the guy goes a billionaire me is not a not something else a billion dollars but somebody who helps a billion people and i think i told to the store but our friend vis michelle who's all about making a billion dollars was there and just he just goes this fucking stupid was just like cut it down which i thought was hilarious because who's gonna argue against that but he was like that's the fuck stupidest thing ever heard and so you know different people value this stuff differently anyways i thought it was a cool concept what do you think of this i think it's a great concept it's timely because so there it's something i've been thinking about so i'm thirty one years old i married i don't have kids but i'm getting to the point where i'm considering having children and doing that i'm slowly but not yeah considering like what do i want my life to be you know like when you're young it's like i'm happy to grind that's all good but it's like alright well how would i wanna set up my life and how would i wanna prepare my future non existent family yet you know you just start some of these accidental questions that you probably are few years ahead of me with asking because you have a kid have kids anyway i'm asking myself that now as well and it's an interesting question and basically like could you work really hard to get a quick win early on in your life but then that slowly is gonna be a risk of you working hard your entire life en sla away and is sla away worth it or not the answer is sometimes it is but also the answer is a lot of times it's not and it's the ego that is likely like would you rather have a job that pays you a really good salary of like hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and you have to work very little or start or work out a place that has potentially huge impact on the world makes you famous inflate ego but you gotta it's your life purpose and you there is nothing out of it that's a really hard thing to ask yourself and i frankly am i'm not sure where i stand i think it's hard right like because it comes down to this question of like what are you optimizing for right so it's like one hard question act to answer you actually have to make have to ask a different hard question even harder question which is kinda like what's the purpose of life if it's just to be happy then you know doing all like basically going and starting a company and trying to you know become super wealthy is probably not the best way to be happy you know like the things that make happy tend to be these like sort of other five things including like sort of family friends blah blah blah blah and so like why would you ever sacrifice your health sacrifice your time with your family in order to get money and this is sort of like pointed out by like there's this whatever the famous quote by the dal llama which is like man man is so so interesting right like he sacrifices his his time money and health or sorry it's his time and his health to get money so that he can you know wish he had the time back and buy back his health and it's like you know a butcher of the quote but there's like a dull lam quote that's that's exactly like that or this is other quote that's like youth is wasted on the young type of thing which is like we piss away time when we have it and when you're young you don't realize how value it is to be young you only realize it when you get old which is unfortunate do you follow nick bai on instagram or youtube at all i do after i follow my instagram after we but i use instagram much but i follow him after we did the pod of them so he was on this pod he has a a fitness program or a fitness nutritional company whatever it probably does great but his whole shit is he started the company and he's also like the main content guy so he probably spends a lot of his time doing content and his content is all about being fit so right now he's training for an na man so he probably spends four hours a day working out which is his job technically he looks like shredded he's like looks like a model like he's he's got huge muscles and it just fitness freak and i see him and i'm like man that would be badass ass to be able to exercise five hours a day and just like that would be my job but then the other time i'm like do you really want that like would you be had so i don't know it's it's a really challenging question so there's another quote that like which is tim ferris said this one thing or or i heard it from tim ferris i don't know who he got it from but it was a great decision saves you a thousand more thousand future decisions this is always like let's say you let's say you decide i don't drink then you don't have to decide every time am i gonna drink at this bar what am gonna drink like no like you've already made the one decision that saves you a thousand future decisions and this is why like having values in general for yourself or for your company is so important because like whole foods doesn't need to decide should we carry m and m's or whatever because it's like no we made one decision early on which is we only serve we only are gonna sell this type of food we're gonna stand for this and so then they don't have to make certain decisions later if eco friendly matters to you then there's only one type of packaging that you should be using you don't have to go through the thousand a thousand other options that are non eco friendly it saves you that time and mental bandwidth and so to me the decision that saves you all the future decisions right of how do i spend my time which should i do should i take this job should i take that job should i sell my company and i start a company like the way to save off all those decisions is to figure out what am i optimizing for i think about these different types of billionaires that we talked about mine would be like i'm gonna be a joy billionaire like i'm gonna optimize for joy and i'm gonna i just write down the things that give me joy and bring joy you know when i'm joy i'm kind of that brings joy to the people around me so what are all the things that give me joy i'm gonna design my life to do those as much as possible and i'm gonna design my life to avoid all the things that suck my joy away and so i that's the easy part that's the easy part the easy part is setting your life up that way the hard part is figuring it out what you want because most people myself included are very influence and so you see this is why i don't watch wolf wall street like that movie because i see i see like a good looking actor who's having a blast and makes it look fun to screw people and do drugs and i'm like oh that's so fun let's do it you know what i mean yeah i don't i know what mean so i don't watch that shit or i don't watch you know billions yes i was getting too influenced but i'm no this guy's actually a bad person but it's they make it look awesome and i i'm very easily influenced and so i'm like i gotta i but avoid that so the problem is actually not doing it it's deciding what it is you want what would you say what are you maxing what is i think the engineering terms is like a maximizing function like what what are you maximizing for in your life what do you which attribute you're trying to maximize for in your life personally i haven't made that decision yeah i don't know on autopilot what do you think that ends up being or what two or three does it end up switching between definitely money was one for me for a long time maybe even now yeah money money i would say making money and everything career driven is what i'm maxing not achieving yeah achieving is one hundred percent that i sacrifice a lot of stuff in order to to do that and it's so funny because i don't always have to do that and yeah i still make the decision to do it i think that i imagine the way i was raised i imagine a similar a lot of immigrants where it's just like what do you mean you're not gonna work like when someone messaged me saying like hey do you wanna get lunch on thursday i'm like no dude i have a job and they're like but you're the boss and i'm like i understand what that means like i have to go to work it's like a really hard thing to break yeah i'm with you i i i agree it's really hard but i think it's worth doing right i think it is once you decide i think it makes all your other decisions easier because you just say okay cool does this if i do this does this increase the joy my life for me right does this increase to joy my life alright cool and not just like in the moment but like kind of like on a unsustainable basis right because some things will give you joy in the moment but we'll give you extreme you know whatever the opposite agony suffering you know shortly after right i can drink a bunch that's gonna give me joy right now but i'm gonna have suffering on the hangover tomorrow so net it's negative so i i having did having kill children having a kid did that change your because i think that like when i got married i was like i i feel a little bit more responsible for someone else but in reality like i can kinda do anything i want i don't really like it's i'm still pretty and pretty selfish no i think that didn't change me in that way it changed me in other ways but i would say for me it was like selling my company i was like okay alright so i got some money not all the money i got some money you know i've achieved something didn't hit a home run but i've i've achieved something and i was sort like i well that chapter done now so now i'm deciding what i'm gonna do next and when you start to decide what you're gonna do next you that's when it becomes hard because while you're in the middle of something it's very hard to like fucking reassess all your values and what you're optimizing for because in most of the time the answer is stop doing what you're doing and go do something else which is really hard to do but when you have like a clean break a transition time that's the time to ask those questions because it becomes was very easy to like sketch out a new picture for the next chapter so it was more of that it wasn't really having a kid baby think this way it was like i ended one chapter i didn't rush to start a new chapter yet and in the meantime i talked to a bunch of people who i think are interesting and wiser than me and i read a bunch of stuff and like the thing i've come out with is that you know this is how i this how i wanna think about things and it just so happens that your transition period is having like a two and half billion dollar angel investment fund so that's a pretty good investing in companies is actually a very agonizing experience but it's like for problem so you can't really complain but like if somebody said this vivid day i heard it it was like everybody who invest before me is just a dark drawing monkey and everybody who invest after me is just a spreadsheet you know just a just a spreadsheet monkey that's just you know they took no gut risk or whatever but it's pretty true like whenever you invest in something you you never invest the right amount at the right time you're always like either fuck i should have invested way more or way earlier or you're like i should have never invested or i should have invested way less or nothing no matter what the outcome is you've you never get it right which is kind of a freeing feeling because there is no like perfection that you can get there the other thing that happens when you're invest is like you either invest in something because you're like wow you know i think this could work or you're like oh my god this is gonna work i should not invest i should just compete with this person like i should literally go start this company i wish i was this founder oh my god they're about to like go on this ride that i wanna go on which is like they're gonna crush this market they're gonna become rich and famous they're gonna build this amazing company and i wish i was doing that right now and i get that feeling all the time what's one company that you wanna shut up that you get that feeling with okay so which one okay so i invested in levels and everyone's talking to me about levels they have no idea that i even remotely associated with it i think that one might be that one that could be one i i didn't invest in that one but i'll tell you one that i'm seeing right now that i haven't invested you i tried to invest i couldn't get into one of the rounds but this is kind of a good one i gonna say this for the next episode but we'll do it so this is the reward for people who make it through the whole episode you get probably one of the best ideas in a while and we can come back to it monday so okay so i saw this company i think i told you about this collectible trading card thing that we had this opportunity to buy like a forty million dollar trading card like assets that you know some guy collected for many many many many many years and we have the opportunity to buy it for like ten cents on the dollar and that got me into this world of trading cards and collectible and i kinda knew about it before like i knew that like ebay had gotten big very much on the back of collectible i knew that like stock x and goat and these like sneaker marketplaces were doing really well because people collect sneakers and they trade at like two thousand dollar sneakers that people will buy because sneaker heads are like this like fandom but now i'm like way deeper in it where i'm like i'm seeing what's going on in this world of pokemon and basketball cards at baseball cards and like it's crazy so here's a trend i'm seeing that i'm looking at so there's these companies i'll give you two names one that's called whatnot and the other one is called loop l u p yeah we talked about you and me and one other person oh jack talked about whatnot yes on the podcast are off off okay yeah yeah so so whatnot is basically if you open the app you're gonna see live streams of people doing what they call card breaks which is basically they take a pack of pokemon cards it's like oh guys this is a pokemon card pack that's whatever you know like the base set rainbow collection or whatever you wanna call it and then they're like we're gonna open if you buy this pack i'll open it live and let's see what you get and there's all these people watching this happen and so like literally the screen is like it's just like a table of a bunch of unopened packs and then you go in and then on the you're watching the video and you could just click buy and that buys a certain pack and then the guy opens it and he's like oh shit you got a charizard and then it's like they'll mail you the pack or you could just be like okay i'll swap that in for like some credits and then like so the people the people opening our employees yeah the people opening are the owner of the packs which can sometimes be the platform itself or it can be just like another card seller who has a bunch of bunch of stuff what a cool ass company to work for so not i think is interesting i tried to invest in quite get into the round yet then there's loop which is doing this for sports cards and so i was on there last night this guy has this table and it's just full of sports card packs and it's like the jan freaking app and you like you go and you hit like i wanna buy this prism basketball card set and i'm hoping that inside is like a luca rookie card that's like in good condition and he opens it up and it's like oh you didn't get the luca but you got this other thing and it looks like it's you know maybe a nine out of ten we'll we'll send us off to get graded and by the way i don't if you saw the grading company that just got bought did you see this oh no who so there's two big grading companies one of which is psa psa just got bought yesterday for seven hundred million dollars by a group led by this guy nat turner oh wait the fucking flat iron guy yes so he's a huge he's a huge collector huge trading card guy well by the way i think we're getting our names wrong nat turner is the slave who ran we we did this before but i think this guy's name is also matt turner okay it is oh you're right remember we we did that once before we're were like the slave and so it's like no this is that turner so he invested all like every one of these platforms i'm looking at he's already in he also has like multi million dollar collection of collectible himself and so then he rounded up a group and they bought psa for seven hundred million dollars no shit which it where they bought collectors universe which owns it and i think this is an amazing buy like i was actually looking at buying somebody these thinks like oh if everybody want remember we had talked about certification startups ups if you're the sat if you're the certification everyone needs in order to like be valuable then you have this power just in your name and that's what psa is psa says this is a ten out of ten then the cards a ten out of ten and it's worth more and so everybody has to pay psa and they they spend like ten dollars plus per card per grade that you get so it and it takes like months to turn around there's like no technology involved so i think it's really smart for a technologist technologists to go buy this company because it already has the brand now he's gonna be able to bring technology into if making this these operations way more efficient it should drop the cost increase the speed and branch out even further and so i really like this but so he bought collectors collections universe so anyways i think there's a bunch of industry stuff happening in collectible i'm digging in right now and i'm trying to invest in a couple of different companies in this space so if you're doing something let me know but i would say in general there's what i'll call ecommerce three point o e ecommerce three point o is like fuck your your store your shopify store that's just like a grid of images and i don't know like if every every one of these stores kinda looks the same it's just these like perfect models you don't know what the things actually gonna look like you can't ask questions there's like this intercom bot that says they'll reply to you in six hours over email and so instead what i think the future looks like is what's going on in asia which is it's a live stream video so it's like tiktok you swipe you see a seller and they sell whatever the hell they sell they sell socks they sell trading cards they sell whatever you browse their catalog you know just at the bottom of the screen while they're on live and you could see it's like really authentic you see the seller you see the person behind the brand you see the products and you they're not like photoshopped and all this stuff it's like the actual products and all they need is the iphone to like run their store just streaming and you can actually just click up product in the catalog they'll all hold it up to you be like oh yeah i love this thing because it's great here's how the bottom of it looks it comes in this packaging you can ask a question through the chat and then you can hit buy and they'll be like great yours and and you just check out through the app that's what i think commerce is gonna look like and i think it's gonna make shopify look like a dinosaur in the past let's do an entire episode on monday about this because this nat turner thing i didn't know about it i wanna dive deep into this this is so interesting that this guy did this i think it's bold i think it's cool he's like a high tech guy so he started a ad network and he also started a health company that's sold for two or three billion dollars now he's doing this i find it to be so fascinating this is like a rich nerds play house yes yes i i would agree that's exactly it is i wanna see his collection too i think he's got kind of an amazing collection himself but i like this i like the space and it was a lot of good stuff there's a lot of stuff that's happening here that most people are not paying attention to unless you're in this world and then it feels like your whole world well i see logan paul doing it and i'm like well he's doing it it's like really big gary v been pi logan paul has been pi and that's why pokemon prices has been going up because those guys were actually sort of able to move the market in a way like they actually had enough influence to move the market and they add more credibility and legitimacy to it in the same way right the reason i'm buying bitcoin is like when you go look and you see that raul paul that i'm moving ninety percent of my worth into bitcoin ninety percent you see that paul tudor jones the billionaire hedge fund guy said he's he's accumulated at two percent position in his portfolio of bitcoin two percent for paul tudor jones is is a is a massive amount of bitcoin you know grayscale scale but anyways like a billion dollar plus fund and bought all bitcoin the all they did was they called all the capital up fund and they bought bitcoin whose great scale grayscale is a crypto fund that was started by these two kinda like well known crypto guys and you would think that they were gonna invest in all these different crypto projects and all this stuff and they raised like a big fund and they there you know most funds they called the capital over a period of five years or so and these guys called all the capital upfront and when bitcoin was at like between four and eight thousand they just put the whole fund to bitcoin and which is hilarious because all the news is by bitcoin and they're taking a twenty percent carry it's like no no genius involved but it's already performing amazing right but you know since then there's so much going on in the world right now this is so exciting there's so many opportunities i'm like i wanna know is this normal i can't imagine this is normal it's there's all this stuff happening it's just are you aware of it and are you looking in the places where the action is right square and paypal i think each said that they're putting something like fifty million dollar they're hold they're just gonna hold fifty million dollars a bitcoin as part of their sort of treasury there's another company that said they were gonna be four hundred fifty million dollars and so there's all these people buying in that are institutions not just like you know crypto nerds anymore now every investment firm has to have a bitcoin strategy it might be we're not buying bitcoin it might be we're buying a small might be we're buying a big amount but they all have to have a strategy now for bitcoin and i think that's a big big change that wasn't the case before with bitcoin specifically one of the exciting things is that about sixty percent of the kind of supply that's out there is just not moving it's people who are long term holders they're not selling so really like there's is this there's a supply problem there's only so much supply and there's a lot more demand and that drives up the price and when the price goes up it reinforces all the people who are holding to keep holding the next wave are also gonna hold because they just bought in and so they're gonna wanna hold too and that's gonna cause the supply to keep shrinking and the demand to keep going up you'll put me in that category i've never sold i don't intend either i i don't even have a long i don't hold it either i don't sell and i don't know i love i lose i lose it i don't know where it is yeah well what we'll do on monday is let's talk about e com and trading cards only alright sounds good because i'm into it we're gonna talk about rally which i love i like rally you know rally yep talk about that we'll talk about it we bring jack on by the way jack smith alright i'll set it up he knows more about this space he knows more about this than either of us what time is it in hawaii right now he if you lit it that's where he late we gonna adjust our time eleven am okay so he'll be he'll do it i'll set it up alright we'll talk to you all soon i have drink three triple chico while i've been on the phone so i or i've been here i've gotta go to the bathroom so bad so i'm gonna log off sounds good see you y'all later