$100M founder predicts what will be big in 5 years

so this is actually a company that i've i've wanted to invest in for so long if you're doing this like please just email me i feel like i could rule where i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on a less travel alright so i wanted to have you on because you are one of my healthiest buddies last time you were on i think you've been on three times already you didn't get into a lot of the ideas because we were just like pepper you with so many questions and i wanted to be more focused i think i asked you what are five or six like interesting health companies or health trends that you're interested in investing in and you hit hit me back with a very detailed list in a very short amount of time so clearly you are like already thinking and acting on a lot of these things can we go through each of them and you just tell me what they are because i'm crazy fascinating because like for the listener you told me in two thousand and fourteen or fifteen that you were quitting tech like you had a software company and you were gonna launch a bone broth company and i was like oh man like you're like you're decided to throw your life away that sucks like you were you were gonna be one of the greats and then it just came out in forbes i think or what was that was the forbes yeah you had this amazing feature about your company kettle fire and how you surpassed a hundred million in annual revenue and it was amazing and i'm like you definitely want and i read the article by way my i texted like five friends and i'm like justin does everything the right way by the way did i get that right you guys you're at a hundred million run rate or revenue yeah nor north of that yeah and you said something amazing i think you said we're gonna what did you say we're gonna be the best operating e commerce company in america is that right yeah i mean basically like there are most of the big public big food companies were started pre nineteen hundred and so a lot of these companies are very very bloated they're large you know they've been around frankly i think many of them were poisoning people and then paying lobbyists and other sort of opposition research groups to make sure that like soda doesn't get removed from food stamps and all these sorts of things and so i think these are just generally bad actors and i think that there's a huge opportunity to both out innovate these big cp companies and also just run a better business like i guarantee no one in you know battle creek michigan working at kellogg is looking at like how do we use ai to automate a lot of our workflows and process and things like that whereas like that's something we have live work streams going in kettle on fire to figure out like how do we apply the craziest technology you know move like leap forward of you know certain my certainly my lifetime to just running the the best possible company that we can and i think it's working so far we have like thirty four people for you know for our size of business which is quite good scale you have only thirty four employees yeah wow is it wildly profitable or is it working its way to be wildly profitable no we're we're profitable i mean one of the things that i'm very proud of is like we've raised only ten million dollars in primary capital since starting the company and so it's been pretty capital efficient and you know we've been focused on building a trend but also building a good business since we started it like nine years ago pam that's awesome that you have proven me and i'm sure many other people wrong and you've you've been early on a bunch of stuff alright so let's dive deep what's the first one you wanna talk about yeah so first one i wanna talk about is i think that you know there are there's this huge huge macro trend where all people are talking about mah they're talking about seed oils talking about all these things for standpoint make america help make america healthy again okay we're talking about all these things about fixing the chronic disease crisis in the us and i think that health trends specifically for dogs and other pets like tend to lag a couple years behind humans like basically a couple years ago you know you saw blue apron hello fresh a bunch of these companies launch and then couple years beyond that farmers dog a like fresh dog food delivery kind of company launches and i think there are well over a hundred or two hundred million in revenue at this point it's crazy and i basically think that you can look at the us disease crisis obesity rates inflammation cancer autumn you all these things the same thing is happening in dogs like something like one in four dogs are gonna get cancer at this point this is like unique it's new cancer rates among dogs are rising and again this is because dogs like humans exist in an environment that is actively poisoning them you're like ke is total trash and it is literally making dogs sick and so i think that there are a lot of these health trends that like people are getting into that you're going to see become popular now and in two to three four years are going to be popular for for pets especially because now it's something like i think that millennials are gen like literally have more dogs than babies or something like that the the market is growing incredibly quickly although i don't have a dog but i i think there's like a lot a lot of gold in that sort of like take human health thing and apply it to a dog like health product is this true you say here that in some cities there's more dogs and babies yep yeah yeah it's certainly true like the younger the younger you go the cable thing is interesting i i had a dog for fifteen years he's was my best friend and his last five years of life it hit me where i was giving him so when i first got him i was poor so i would like buy the cheapest dog food and then i got you know could afford like whatever they tell you you know like the stick they tell you is like only buy something where it says like chicken on the first ingredient who knows if that's sure or enough but that's a more expensive thing and then i was like eating k like dry dog food that'd would be it would be sort of like feeding me potato chips every day yeah you know what i mean like and like people's dogs are you know what do you do when you have dog and any eat dinner they all come in obsessed over you and you're like yell at and i'm like if you gave me ref fried beans for every single meal of course i'm going to want like be desk brit for any new food it's kind of insane right that we would feed them to same thing and it's like a processed dried thing that doesn't expire totally it's it insane right it's a totally insane and you look at the ingredient and it's like full of trash full of artificial and ingredients you know like all of the stuff that people are trying to remove from their diets we basically put in k and feed to dogs for every single for every meal i remember like my in laws have a dog and he comes over and they're like don't give them table food i don't want to be unhealthy i'm like i don't know man i feel like this the asparagus in chicken might be alright hundred percent and we had kevin rose on the podcast and he had funded a company called dog aging project dot org and i believe what they are doing the whole premise is that for some reason i believe it was because a lot of times you don't wanna see you're you're willing to suffer or you're willing to let your family suffer oftentimes more than you're willing to let your dog suffer in the premise but at the same time you're willing to experiment more and so the premise was that they had there what's the drug that is a longevity drug that starts with an r rap yes i believe they were doing they were selling this to dog owners and what they found was like i guess there's a huge correlation between what we can do with dogs and what we'll eventually do with humans like you're suggesting and they have noticed that they have gotten dogs to live longer and their premises we are gonna start here and then eventually go there to humans and so yeah the people agree with you yeah yeah well i i think that they're looking at it as like you know drug and then we'll expand dog longevity and then we'll move into humans i think what i think that like the business opportunities exist looking backwards like everyone is talking about water cleanliness and water filtration and stuff like this and yet when they go to feed their dog they like put their bowl under the sink and the dog gets a load of like whatever toxins alcohol or not alcohols chlorine like you know all of these sorts of things like that's it's daily water source and i i think that there's all of these things where like why is there not a reasonably sized company just doing like aurora like a really you know ro r like a really high end water filter but geared towards dogs or something like that i don't know i think like dogs sauna and dog dog cold plunge is probably a little too far but certainly i think that there's like a bunch of peptides supplements you know water filtration things like that that even like doing dog kennel and things like this with more natural materials that probably would do quite well for people who already think and view the world through the health lens and if not yet begun the process of applying that lens to their health or to their pets can you tell me what light labs is that's amazing i looked at the website it seems like this might this is your brother's thing it might be bigger than everything you guys have done yeah yeah yeah i i hope so i mean so my brother and we started kettle and fire together and we grew it after some period of of time he stepped back from the business and so his new business which he started last year is called light labs and what they're doing is basically there are so many toxins and other sorts of like crap in our food supply chain and at kettle and fire we spend almost half a million dollars a year testing all of the batches that we're making of bone broth to make sure that like there's no glyphosate there's no p fast there's no ph it's like all these sorts of things and so we as a company spend a lot of money and a lot of energy making sure that our supply chain is clean but we're making sure that it's clean of stuff that you can't see as a consumer get you probably care about and so what light labs is doing is they're basically building a lab testing talks testing company like a modern one for consumer brands like kettle and fire where they do two things like they will test for nutrition fact panel of run the normal like heavy heavy metals testing things like that but they also do a longer tail of rarer tests like vale p glyphosate pesticides things like that and then once they run these tests they actually expose it and push the most recent versions of a brand's lab test to both their website or if you're sold mostly in retail the goal is to get like a qr code that a consumer can scan and see like what is kettle and fires most recent lab test show around like p boss and other sorts of exposures so i i think this is like one of the most interesting things happening in the health world right now is this broad push towards transparency and like getting a bunch of these things micro plastics satellites whatever that people know are bad but don't have visibility into like bringing transparency to that food system which then creates the incentive and energy to make change so that's kinda what he's doing i've i have a ton of questions on this okay so you and i lived in austin together and then before that we live in san francisco together both very much like bubble cities where austin's like you know very health conscious and particularly our friend group is very health conscious and then san francisco was like you know the the on the forefront of a lot of tech do people where i'm from in missouri where you're from in pa do they care about any of this stuff not right now but but i think that that's not like not a hundred percent percent of people have to care for this to make sense like what is undoubtedly true is people are spending more time and energy focusing on sourcing toxin reduction they're spending more money at you know companies like whole foods on brands like kettle and fire on their health in general and i think that this is one of the things that people are going to start caring about when they shop and like the minute that yes it may not be like people you know where my family's is from where your family's from they may not be asking about ph load in you know their hot dogs that they're eating or something like that but some percentage of people will and you only need a small increase in order for there to be demand from the brand and consumer side to you know to to basically have supply chains and agricultural resources ranch like all these practices that incorporate and think about talks and exposure pest aside load and and the like and so i think white labs is the type of company that i'm super bullish on bringing transparency to the food system because i think it's just going to like once you bring transparency then there's energy to try and clean up and improve the food system behind them and so so this company from i i don't know anything about the space it's basically like putting an organic label on your food so of a food company would pay them and they would say light labs is a reputable brand we have proof that they've tested everything we paid them money to do it and we have a dashboard as well where we can like see where we are in the process of the testing is that right yeah exactly so consumer brands like we kettle in fire we already have to spend money on you know on on these different sorts of tests and things like you have to because you're legally required to by the usda or fda to do nutrition facts panels you have to do like heavy metals testing you just there's just a slew of tests that you have to by law run yeah by law before you can actually just sell a product and so that that's like a thing that you already have to do then what light labs is doing is they are bringing a bunch more transparency to to the supply chain and making it so that you can look at you know momentous supplements or like any number of these things and basically see okay beyond just metals testing and things like this what are the other things that they've tested for oh wow i can see you know like no detectable ph i can see no detectable glyphosate say no test detectable at like some of these other pesticides that people care about and so i think it's bringing that what has been like hidden in the depths of these like horrible lab tests from by companies that are like sixty years old to the forefront and making it influence consumers buying behavior that that makes me so bullish how big is the biggest lab business now or the couple biggest ones and when your brother was raising money or when he was just brainstorming with you on describing how big this could be or like what his dreams were in twenty years what was he saying yeah so the biggest one was called euro fans i think it's like an eleven or twelve billion dollar company like in revenue no market cap so but i mean it pretty closely maps to revenue because it's like a service business you know it's it's like not a great it doesn't trade very well so what he was saying is basically step one i think that we can build a competitor and be better than euro fence like you submit to a euro fence lab you submit an email inquiry and you get you get a response maybe in like three or four days and then when they run your test they don't communicate anything and they dump like thirty pdfs on you that you have to hire someone that understands food scientist to like you know translate this stuff it's really like insane and you go to their website euro fence dot com it looks like you're like you know making a vaccine or yeah you're doing like you're doing like like like some type of embryo work like like a very intimidating a website it looks like an it looks like an academic site from like ninety five you know like it's very intimidating exactly and so they're not the type of company that is gonna build an incredible product for consumer brands and they're not the type of company that's gonna build the consumer facing product and so what he was like my brother was thinking is he was like wow this is going to be incredibly interesting we can build a euro fence competitor we can do a better job servicing cp g brands we already know how to do that from his experience to ke fire and then we have the opportunity to build out this entire other business where we can build like consumer awareness of these different toxic compounds and turn you know kettle fires five hundred thousand a year of lab testing expense into an actual revenue generating function and almost like a marketing line item dude this is so awesome does he have any revenue now at your brother yeah they they've launched a couple months ago and they've started to get revenue raise funding or did he boot bootstrap it he did no no this is definitely the type of company after to raise money it looks expensive to start yes definitely it's it's honestly it's the type of company that i think yeah is it's it's the perfect like acts to company like nick has experienced domain expertise can raise money and when your first thing is like hey we have to raise you know millions of dollars and we're gonna write a check for like you know multiple millions to like buy a laboratory and buy lab equipment all this stuff it's tough to make that bet on like a twenty two year old but on a twenty nine year old with some experience like it makes more sense is this in texas yeah you know step wow this is amazing alright wow first of all this is crazy how much does oh and the the labels so like if you go to mcdonald's or fast food they put the nutritional there which is like way more challenging i think than like an m and m or a candy bar which is more controlled but i'm pretty sure i've always like believe that nutritional labels are bullshit like in my head i've always been like it's give or take maybe even thirty percent of what is presented the calories right is it clear like i i was just because i weigh my food i i i've track i've tracked almost everything that i've eaten for like four years now in my fitness pal wow and like you and you weigh it and i weigh it and now i i i bought it sometimes but like first of all i've noticed a few things one when people i ball their food to track they almost always overestimate or sorry underestimate by around thirty percent and then if you go and buy like a let's just say a big mac the degree in which they are different is huge and there's no way that news those nutritional labels are accurate which just the calories let alone like whatever else like the macros plus whatever else is supposed to be in it yeah exactly i mean the fda first depending on the the compound or the nutrient like they'll have a limit that is often it's ten plus plus or minus ten percent for sure oftentimes it's upwards of like thirty forty to you and fifty percent depending on the compound because as you can imagine some of these things are are fairly sensitive like potassium or iodine or things like this that are present in minuscule amounts like it's really hard to say exactly for every single cookie or piece of bread that you're getting or whatever that there's x amount of iodine in it and so the fda allows for you know reasonably high tolerance on on some of these errors which should makes a lot of this nutrition stuff even harder to figure out who who owns the like is the certified organic is that a company it is a i believe it's a nonprofit i think it's word and tilt is one of them but yeah it's like a certified body and i've always contested if that's bullshit because like i just think that when you i like i've seen farms where they have like an organic section in a non organic section and like it just seems like when you put medicine on one of them it inevitably will get in the other one that is certainly true the thing that is good like i think organic is better than nothing but it's certainly not perfect and i think that there is a lot of you know there's a fair bit of research that organic vegetables for example have far fewer pesticides than they're conventional kind of counterparts for but they still have some right it's not because they're directly being sprayed it's because of like you know wind water like all these sorts of things moving these compounds everywhere what's another good one you wanna do function health or skin a gut health i'm fascinated by all these yeah let's do let's do function so you know function health superpower like explain what those are yeah so function health and superpower they're basically companies where you can go to their website sign up pay an annual membership fee and they'll facilitate a telemedicine thing where they'll be like hey you can go get your blood drawn at you know a lab or have someone come to you and you can test your own blood for like i think it's over a hundred ninety markers so you can get things like p fast exposure heavy metals testosterone you know insulin markers all these sorts of things that to just know are you healthy or things that you need to work on and so i think that like i believe that function is one of the fastest growing companies in the entire injuries in portfolio like they're growing super super fast and yeah i think they announced another fundraising but i think they announced that it got like nine figures in revenue in like two or three years like something being insane it's crazy so it's crazy and like there's so much demand for people wanting to understand their biomarkers their lipids like all these sorts of things i think that rolling four or five years we gonna know more or less about the health of our bodies and what's like going on in our system it's definitely more and what i think function superpower and the like are doing is they're lowering the friction for people like you and i to understand what's going on in our bodies and our blood and all that and that information creates a ton of potential for action but why why are why is function growing so fast because i've used inside insight or inside tracker tracker inside tracker for years and then before that there was i i don't know like there there's these have always been a thing why yeah like and now i'm hearing so many people talk about function health what i'm like i these have been cool and awesome for a decade now why is this one particularly awesome i i think that their marketing is great i think that the value prop is great it's like one price one annual membership get this slew of test like if you had if you went to your doctor and ask for the same test that function would give you it would be like do they don't let you well well if you went to right they either don't let you or would be like seven or eight thousand dollars and so function is like five hundred bucks a year i had my friend tried to go get this testosterone checked and you went to the doctor and the doctor was like you're thirty two you don't you're fine exactly like you don't need to do that it's insane the medical system is so patronizing it's like there also there's people talking about how you shouldn't get an mri or shouldn't get your blood work done because like it'll scare you pause all these questions you scare you and you're like fuck off like this still just like such an insanely patronizing thing yeah it's crazy like i i you know i've i've done this before where i'm like i want this test it and they're like but you seem perfectly healthy and exactly like dude just like write it on the paper it means nothing to you and it's important to me just do what i tell you to do please like exactly like this this literally requires nothing from you and i'm just gonna learn yeah it it's exactly right i think that like the medical profession writ large there's certainly people that do good but i think that many of them have this like the patient's idiot i know everything kind of vibe and that is if you look at the trajectory of american health certainly i think that we need to change what we're doing i think taking like health matters into their own hands is a huge huge thing and so why this is an interesting trend to me function super like is for the first time i think you were gonna see millions of millions of people being boarded and understanding and like what is going on in their blood what's going on in their bodies and then taking steps to optimize or improve that thing and so right now if you take supplements it's like you know sam you probably take cr or something like that you're you probably take it and you're like maybe i'm a little more shredded it maybe i'm like you know feel better or whatever but you probably don't you're not seeing any of your lab markers change same true of like thyroid or cholesterol markers or lipids or other things i think as people get this information and start to retest over a you know six to twelve month period that we are going see way way way more products and services that sprout up where people where like there is demand for people who wanna optimize their biomarkers so sort like today we have personal trainers who help you get shredded because like that's kinda the only thing people can see i think in the future we'll have like apps trainers services things like this that are specific to sam wants to lower his ap b score or sam wants to improve his you know ldl or or something like that sam wants to improve his thyroid like i think all of these things are newly going to be marketing angles and things that people talk about because they have this insight into their body this company also took off and by the way i quit digging cr it it turned me into a gorilla i got so big like i couldn't i cannot like fit into clothing like have you have you taken it i i have and i stopped i stopped because a friend freaks me out he was like everyone who goes on cr teen starts losing their hair which i like didn't experience to know about but i was like i'll cycle off it for six months and see what happened i went did happen to you obviously no not yet but like i like like i balloon like i just like it got so it just felt like i had so much like it was like fifteen pounds in like three weeks wow i got huge like i went from like two zero two to like two fifteen or something and then i was like alright i gotta go off it for like eight days and it just like all went away because yeah i don't know what happened but and this function health thing these guys took off because i mean what they did with smart they i don't know if mark h started it or if he's like considered is he like the the kim kardashian of sci were we're i i don't know if he had the idea or like someone else i had the idea and he was the face but like partnering up with that dude who's got two million or something followers like my father law's like whatever mark says i do thoughts and so like partnering up with a guy like this is so much better than whatever else health influencers sell like coaching pdfs so you know what i mean totally yeah like i i generally think also as a side comment this is how creators are gonna monetize more in the future is like owning chunks of very good businesses that rely on distribution rather than just like i'm mark in and i get an affiliate fee every time i refer someone to check out function health or something you know yeah yeah yeah for sure what's this other one about functional medicine doctor for your home that is amazing sounding we explain that yeah so there's increasing awareness around how your home can basically be a source of disease like lighting can be bad ems you know are controversial but like i think definitely have some health impact wait what's that ems electromagnetic frequencies is basically like your cell phone your wifi router like all of these sort of things that that are that were surrounded by all the time you know water toxicity thing like off gas things called volatile organic compounds basically like the the you know when you walk into a a building that's newly painted or something like that you can smell it dude do you have so much anxiety all day no how pretty chill i've i really believe in the like eighty twenty thing on this stuff because like everything you're describing in my house is like you know like a chainsaw there's gonna just so ripped me up you like i saw a a video that this guy named car md and he had a video on youtube explaining like his house and carnival d is like the most extreme of the most when it comes to like these type of granola health influencers and like he had like a mattress that had only natural fibers which yeah i don't i don't know what a grounding thing is but there was like dream this like is grounding for electricity he had like a pole that went into the ground of his home and all the electricity had like touch that grounding pull do you had a thing you know i'm talking about that's amazing yeah like it was like and then he had like no led light bulbs he had no wifi so there was no wifi at his home and you had to plug in if you had to if you wanted to use the internet on this one particular area of his home like it was crazy and i was reading it or watching this video i'm like that's cool and also this fucking exhausting yeah definitely it's very like when you just named all of these things i'm like i don't know man like i kinda would maybe just fucking kill me early like you know what i mean like maybe i'll just take that as a consequence yes so i agree it's exhausting it's a multi factorial problem it's like a thing that people are aware of when fix but don't know where to get started this is actually why i think that a like functional medicine or like trainer that makes your you know your house healthy is a very interesting idea i actually invested in a company called light work it's do light work dot com but they're they're basically doing this where they can send someone to your house and do a test around you know what are the things that what are the things that are potentially causing disease or stress or other sorts of things in your home and it's it's like shocking what they have found like they'd tested a you know a billionaires home recently and across like all sorts of things like air quality water quality v sees ems exposure all of this you know it rated very very badly like people are not looking at the home through the lens of of health and chronic disease and when you start to there's like a ton of changes that you wanna make many of those are are which are you know confusing or you know people don't really understand so i think that there is a huge opportunity for people to start thinking about you know home health or housing through the the lens of health and i think that a company like light work or others that brings this sort of home health test assessment almost like function you know function health for your house is like a really really big opportunity so they have a list on their website so water quality i assume that includes putting some type of filter they have lighting which i imagine that means like no led lights or a certain type of bulbs they have em which i guess that is the grounding thing we talked about like basically it's somewhat yeah it's it's more like a it's more like are you sleeping over a wifi router like are you spending a lot of times in air you know a lot of time in areas that have a very five power you know electro electromagnetic frequency dude they're gonna get so pissed at me when they find out that i sleep with family guy playing in my ear from my cell phone when i sleep on my phone oh shit wanna failed this test they have air quality so that means like do you plants inside your house or what or more more like our is what is the quality of your air mostly that's contributed like things that are bad are some of the paints that are doing off gas some furniture off gas quite a lot you know micro plastic fibers kind of like floating around in the air from your like carpet or something like that so a lot of these things do these kind make money they just started so the answer is sort of so far how much is it cost it depends on the house size but anywhere it's it's definitely a premium product like five thousand or ten grand yeah grand yeah and and it's i would say that it is one of these companies that starting out is expensive concierge like all that kind of stuff over time i think there's a huge amount of potential especially using ai and whatnot to have people kind of do a version of this assessment almost themselves or you walk around your house with a camera and all these sorts of things and this company just tells you like change this do to this is probably bad this is not like there's a there's a really cool potential technology solve here i think and the guy who started this is he have a background in this stuff yeah he so he got incredibly sick his wife actually moved into a house that house was on top of a power line that house had like a bunch of bold issues that they didn't realize about when when they moved in and over the course of the year their health on like every marker energy everything just like collapsed and so they went you know they went they're healthy they're thirty one they went to normal doctors they went to all these people and only after a crazy amount of experimentation and talking to doctors so they realized wow it's our health that it like our home is actually making us sick and that's what kinda got them down this rabbit hole of trying to understand the problem which is that many people are getting sick feeling low energy feeling all these things because they're being slowly poisoned by the house they live it dude i feel whenever i hear this story i think i'm broken because like you know i describe my family like my where i'm from missouri we're basically we're we're just mules like we like you know you eat donuts in the morning you eat cheeseburgers at fries in the afternoon and you eat steak and pizza and fries at night with tons of beer and you just do that every single day and you just don't complain and like if you were to like you tell me that these people like if if if my house was full of mold i would just think i have allergies it just whatever like this is just how i feel yeah do you what i mean it's so like i wouldn't i wouldn't know you know to like do i just thought i would just take this is just life and i and i wouldn't ever complain about it either i just be like fuck like rips some dirt on it it's fine you're not alone i mean this is like how most people respond to this right i just think that best people if you're becoming more aware of these things but you're not raised that way my mom was one of the early like into organic people there's for yeah she would buy milk and a glass truck that was like un past so how these nasty clumps and you'd like poured into your cereal in the morning and a clump would hit it and the whole like rope would explode all over you so mom's are free i know at one point i think i was like in yeah fourth or fifth grade the health food store where she was buying all this stuff literally burned down and all the kids like through a party we're like yay no more no more crappy milk that's insane and you know it is funny as my wife you know as we've had kids started having kids it's so funny once the baby comes out of you you automatically become granola yeah the there's there's a subreddit have you seen the subreddit it's called like funny granola mom is it moderate granola moms yeah moderately granola moms and yeah moderately granola moms a place for almost hippie and honestly it's like one of my favorite places to get information because it's people who are hip get hip hippie dipping but they're self aware which is like why i like you so like i want like someone who's like you know loves the extreme stuff but can also dumb it down to me who's more like you i don't really wanna learn everything i wish you would just tell me what to do and tell me like what's like experimental versus what's like actually proven and like you know you like kinda can help me as a more normal consumer figure it out and i've noticed that my wife the second you know we we had a kid it was like no more teflon plastic bottles or no go like things like that and frankly i love it i love it yeah so we we hung out with joe gu recently did you know did you ever go to airbnb office yeah yeah so i don't know if you remember this but they were wild so this was back in two thousand i think they did this actually from the beginning but they had two thousand people working out of that office something like that maybe a thousand and they made one hundred percent of their own food and to to an extreme so for example they had air bowl which was some type of like airbnb red bull they had so the the condiments the catch up the mayonnaise was literally made on sight by the staff and so and their meats were all from butcher every single thing they had so they had trail mix where it was like nuts with like chocolate that they had made it was crazy and i distinctly remember that and i thought it was crazy and then i was sorry started to thinking about it i'm like that's kind of amazing and we hung out with joe debbie and i asked him about that i go what why did you guys do this he goes man that's how i was raised like my mom i think he i think he grew up in vermont or somewhere some somewhere rural new england and he was like my mom was basically into this stuff and i was raised doing all this and i just thought it was good for the planet and it was good for our bodies and so we insisted at airbnb that we did this and so back then you know i don't know how maybe joe's forty something so he was raised in late eighties early nineties back then if you did that like here your mom you were a freak now all the young cool guys that like we follow on an instagram who were friends with all do this stuff and i think it's like pretty amazing that is so cool you don't remember that about air airbnb i went there i i didn't yeah i went there to like meet up with the friends and then see a talk so i only went two or three times and they didn't actually get that that level detail that's so cool it was wild i don't know if i they still have an office i don't know if they still do that but during the pandemic they had to lay people off and unfortunately the the culinary staff was probably the first to go yeah that that feels like the first thing that a public company like activist investor kind of yells that you you know i understand that could be tough to justify my way is like no need an office but that was a story it it and honestly it was amazing i tell the story all the time and when i saw that i was kind of on board with airbnb even further because i'm like if they sweat the details with this they probably saw the details with other stuff alright let's do two or three more you had one on about skin gut health what is that and whenever someone says gut health it freaks me out because the what's it called leaky gut is the world's greatest branding yeah so this is actually a cosmetics company that i've i've wanted to invest in for so long i haven't seen anyone do it if you're doing this like please just email me my email is very easy to find or ping me on twitter but the thing that i think should happen is like there's i don't know how many hundreds of billions a year are spent on the skin care kind of space and if you look at research all there are certain things that work like certainly there's classes of peptides and things like that that i think maybe work decently well from a care standpoint but for most people if you're buying any sort of skincare to look younger or whatever it's just like a waste of money or it's like marginally effective that way so say again so your your stance here is that care is mostly a waste care is mostly a scam yeah yeah minus like a couple things like certain peptides sunscreen moisturizer sure if you want your skin to be like more moist but a lot of the anti aging stuff anti wrinkle cream all these sorts of things is that is there one in touch with an r well re a is one of the few things that's actually that's actually relatively effective it's like all but this is the thing it's like basically only peptides are the things that work right that's peptide yeah so it's it's a peptide things like like one skin uses a peptide there's something called like copper it's copper g k i think which is another peptide these things seem to actually work as well as some compounds like meth blue and whatnot but other compound like any sort of random fifty dollar thing that you're gonna buy and amazon that is like anti aging and uses you know jojo jo oil or like any of these things like just f like just do not work or if they do they so marginal it's basically not worth doing in my opinion what does work is and you know wear sunscreen screen either right no you you that let's one of your like bold stance which is that sunscreen i i obviously think like most sunscreen is carcinogenic again there's another thing in the in the us we allow things like oxy zones that are not allowed in the eu it's in almost every sunscreen in the us it is definitively carcinogenic and so like why we encourage kids to put on put this on like use to eight hours a i no do you zinc so i use a non nano inc oxide sunscreen just for my face if i'm gonna be in the sun for like a very hump period of time yeah dude just con so controversial for a white guy just i don't know i don't know like i i feel like i've i've happy with my skin so so yeah so the thing that i want to invest in is there is a lot of research that shows the relationship and the link between gut health and skin health and so like if you have a healthy gut or if you work on probiotics or you work on like know drinking bone broth doing things like this that are gonna improve your gut health generally there's research that shows that that is reflective in skin there's something called things think it's called like bio acids basically but there's a way that you can measure how much light someone's like skin cells are emitting and that improves as your gut health pierce which is kind of a wild fact how how long is the is the change so like for example i don't have like the greatest i i have dry flaky skin i just thought it was just because i'm just like a super white dude and like in the wintertime my skin gets destroyed in the summertime time i'm great but yeah like you know i always thought that it was just like the lack of sun because like she's like my scalp will hear it my scalp will get like so dry during the during the time and i like need to get under the sun yeah yeah so like red light chicken lamps does that do stuff yeah it's helpful dude it like during time i feel miserable like i i like i'm like i need like the sun to like burn off everything on my head and on my face so if i started drinking what's the routine if i started doing that how long would my skin it take for my skin get better i i'd better take like six months basically basically i i think it's gonna be suffer about this the way time start now you'll be great in december yeah but i i i think that the macro like business opportunity is people treat care as just a a topical thing that you apply to your skin not like an an expression of your gut health and skin health and all these sorts of things and so i think there is an opportunity to build an incredibly large cosmetics company you know in skin care company combining topical applied skin care that's actually effective with gut based interventions that are going to like improve your skin from sort of the inside out and i i've like one of this company to exist for seven years now but but isn't that bone broth i mean what does this look like yeah so i think would be a like a combination of specialized probiotics that that are geared towards you know improving skin health i think it would be probably a crash diet of like thirty to sixty days where you're removing a bunch of like toxins and other inflammatory foods from your diet incorporating bone broth and then some sort of like effective topical skincare and i think that regimen would outperform basically anything that exists in the care world today do you eat any processed foods try not to but like do on a weekly basis how how often probably very probably none zeroed and yeah one so like that's easy for i understand that for meals so you probably you do you you probably cook or do left it overs what about for a snack what's a an example i used these actually i just had one earlier so it's a maui venison stick oh i have one as well i got i got my my my kettle and fire collab with them there we go hell yeah yeah dude they're so you guys you guys sent me a bunch of them i think like each stick is like three dollars yeah it's like three or four dollars yeah i i have like a thousand dollars for these at my house amazing so i i do those like meat sticks i'll do fruit couple bone broth like those are kind of the go to snacks i've kind of been addicted to dried mango recently which but that's a process no like is that not considered is it beat jerky is that considered process i i wouldn't consider a process like if you're sourcing it you know sourcing it from a good place like it's not gonna have a bunch of additives it's basically just like meat that has been dried and then some spices yeah i do dried mango where do i do it from whole food but the problem is is that like i'll eat i can do like a bag a day which is like it is a problem my eight hundred calories and like it's basically like four coke yeah yeah although i i don't know i've been eating like i there's there's this interesting diet online that i'm i'm currently trying called a the honey diet but basically you just eat fruit and honey before noon each day and then have like a high protein meal in the afternoon why are you doing this just to experiment frankly and to see how i feel but so far i feel pretty fucking good dude so the the mango is fit within that diet i've been doing my snack lately has been dates and butter have you ever had that no oh my god it's the great i think i saw a card do it and i was like let me try this because i got a sweet tooth like i have a a a very addictive of our personality and when i quit drinking alcohol it totally went to sugar so i'm always having to combat that but i think everyone is and so a half a tablespoon of butter in a date it's like the greatest thing on earth i'll don't think of it a go actually cardboard d is very into this like meat and fruits thing like honey fruit and meat is basically his diet and he's very end of this so i don't know i i actually think that that we're there's a good chance that honey fruit like we're on the the very early stages of like people realizing that sugar is not that bad for you when it comes in fruit or honey form that's an interesting take because i would have thought you would've have said the opposite which is like glucose is glucose no that's that's interesting so you do high sugar fruit as well not just this is something i'm just starting to experiment with and so like i'm not even sure so i i literally like i got my labs done recently and then like last week started this honey diet thing so i'm gonna test again in like three months and see how i'd see how things look that's pretty fascinating i would not have thought that that's something you would do because i like i've read about like bananas sam cor actually told me he said this in passing so i don't wanna like attribute this to because i could've have i could've be listening to him wrong but i believe he said that a modern banana is candy and the way it used to be was like a carrot he was like they they were not like this as delicious but we've like genetically you know it's kinda like a honey apple like you know what like it's basically like genetically predisposed to be like you know waste sweet yeah yeah like it's i think the new apple that's popular was called a cotton candy apple that's what i like every you they have that at central market it was called the cotton candy apple i'll also try it i've not seen that so like you would eat that i mean i would experiment with it for ninety days for sure yeah like i i don't think a lot of this stuff like yes if you're optimizing for sweetness i i understand that that you could argue maybe it's bad but i think that nature tends to like keep trade off within a certain band so i don't know if you're having organic produce or whatever like i i i think that this stuff is like not it's not bad to experiment with it and just see how you feel do you eat vegetables yeah yeah i do well ari is laugh laughing at i mean so and so are you but like a lot of some of these guys are like i think kind of our md in particular is on some parts anti on some anti vegetable he's come off that a little bit i mean like to me i i think that you just have to have a macro lens on this which is like what if humans been eating for hundreds of thousands of years it's not like you know in in the year nineteen hundred year rolls around or nineteen seventy when like the chronic disease crisis really started ramping up that all of a sudden people are rampant eating vegetables and getting sick all the time it's like obviously in my view not like we are in the midst of a vegetable eating epidemic that is making everyone sick it's like clearly like the ultra processed foods that are new to our food system and so does he you have some good points like maybe our vegetables is less good than than most people think like i could believe that do i think it is a thing that is like worth optimizing into every vegetables like definitely not here's one for some of these health trends i think that polyester clothing is gonna there's gonna be yeah i mean there's already a niche of people i'm one of them where i i i don't wear if a clothing has polyester i i tried always to avoid it unless it's like you know like special or particularly amazing where but but in general it's gotta be all natural fibers are you on are you on board with that oh yeah i mean my polyester clothing is like the number one contributor to micro plastics basically they like shed like crazy when you're washing them and there was there's some studies that have been done around they basically took dogs and had them wear polyester underwear and their sperm count went down like sixty or seventy percent and then they switched them off of polyester underwear and like it came right back up a shit no way so what underwear do you wear do you wear for those there yeah so there there's a company called na that does like organic organic stuff there's another company called pact pac and i usually wear those how interesting is women i mean i don't know it's does this does this matter to women it so it's unclear to me right now i would say potentially but it seems like the thing that is causing the loss firm is like there's some sort of electric charge thing that happens between polyester and the skin that seems to impact in impact like you know sperm generation and so it's it's not clear to me i haven't like gone super deep on it how fascinating so yeah i'm pretty wild though right that dog thing is crazy so are you crazy so that's another great dog health idea you know dog all or all natural dog underwear that's insane to me so i use x auto and i loved it because it was it like would dry quickly after you cleaned it and they never stretched out but i think it is highly synthetic almost certainly and so but honestly cotton underwear for the most part sucks but there's some companies that are making like really good cotton workout gear and cotton underwear that i i really appreciate so like for example what i like to do is a lot of my workout shorts i just get sweatpants pants like all cotton sweatpants pants and i'll cut them but like a big fan of like all cotton workout here because yeah do little lemon and like it has like underwear in the shorts so your junk is just on the polyester or even harder you know what i mean mostly totally they're they're not a company there's a company called r r i love r i love their stuff it's i love r yeah it's so good it is so good it's the only short company for men and they have shirts and stuff to you but it's the only but the shorts are particularly particularly are hard to do because you like if a if a workout short doesn't have the underwear then you're just kinda like flop all over you know what i mean you like but it's hard to do with cotton totally yeah so their their stuff is great i really really like what they're doing and i i use their stuff for all my workout clothes that's great can you tell me really quick are there i just wanna know what justin does are there any other do you have any other stance like this so this is like so fascinating to hear some of your stance that might be controversial or uncommon i feel pretty confident that like our current vaccine schedule is very much not good from a chronic disease standpoint i don't i don't like make any claims around autism or whatnot but from a food allergy standpoint certainly the us is like the worst chronic disease issue and is the most vaccinated and has like the the the most egregious vaccine schedule of any developed country so what are you suggesting spacing it out or not taking them yeah i i basically think like fewer shots more spaced out is like what i'm planning to give kids i wrote a very long post on this it is pretty incredible like for example they give a kid a he b shot like literally five minutes or less like two minutes out of the womb and i was like well i don't i don't know if she's gonna be around like someone with hep b anytime soon so the only way you can get a hep b is through sexual you know sexual activity and blood transfusion and they test them mom for hep b before birth and so like you're just actually a kid against something and and the immunity wears off after a decade and also like that many people have i don't think hep is like particularly common no like it's basically drug users i believe totally i i i mean and the other thing is like my view is that our our health organizations have been captured and you know by large companies and i think like you look also the covid mrna vaccine was added to the infant childhood immunization schedule this year it's like that is not a scientific position that is under something else is going on so i i think that's like a relatively comfortable take that i have that i wrote a very long piece about that i think is def defense any other last ones yeah so against like the health tribe i think that the yeah the the fruit and sugar one is probably like the biggest one that i'm i'm focused on right now and then i also think that this like demon digitization of i think of the tribal stuff tribalism of of like food cultures is is something that i i think is not not good like i basically am much more in nutrient density and i think if you're eating nutrient dense like pizzas and carbs and all that stuff as opposed to like conventional you know vegetables fruits and meats all the time that are like maximally sprayed and process and all this stuff like i i actually think that eating a bunch of carbs that are from a very very good source probably your health outcomes will be better that's stuff's like impossible to find like for example yeah in order to that you'd have to find someone that mills their own grain or something like that like like that's like it's virtually impossible or not virtually impossible but it's a job yep yeah it is i very much agree dude you're the man thank you i just like you know i text you these questions anyway and so it's fun just to get now every time just a pepper with all types of questions that i have but i appreciate you yeah no this has been super fun man thanks for having me on as always and we didn't even promote your company yeah so my my company kettle fires is a bone roth company which we talked about my my company now is called t med we're basically making it so you can buy exercise healthy food supplements using tax free hsa or fsa money so if you go to trim med dot com you can see a bunch of the brands where you can spend tax free dollars and then if you are interested in like some of the health stuff i talk about i also have a newsletter which is justin mere subs stack and a new podcast t med has a podcast it's great i like it yeah yeah we're we're doing like a couple episodes on you know movement exercise nutrient density dude i appreciate you thank you so much god bless thanks for jeremy ellen yeah that's it that's a pop i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a days on on a travel never looking back