#100 with Anthony "Pomp" Pompliano - The "Export Framework" to Business Creation

we're live sean and pumped you guys did a podcast together on pumps podcast i actually didn't last year in new york or this year before happened sean who is this guy this is pom known as he's known as pops his name's anthony pom lia pom is that what i gonna say it close enough yeah no no says saying how you would say it pom hopefully on okay great this dudes everywhere man if you don't know him you don't know us probably that's kind of my my rule of thumb this guys ever on twitter investor ex facebook guy big time in the bitcoin world everybody knows him if you're in crypto and again if you're not crypto you're probably not listening to this podcast so i was gonna ask you how it's going but really all i wanna know is who was better me or sam on your podcast that's a helpful question well sam got a cheat because sam gotta do it in person and i can't remember if we live streamed or not but it's always easier in person i think it sounds like you're saying sam and that's i but i actually think on the i'm audio download beating sam in the first couple hours we'll see okay great i have to go back and look that's all that matters now now sam gonna be get competitive well so i just looked i'm looking at the someone already commented and they said i they called shaun goo and i was like gonna hop in but it was a actually a compliment they said i listened to this goo and the bigger goo say on par on my first familiar ever i was to say and then but it's said that it said hands down the best podcast out there sorry pump you're my second favorite i'll take second that's fine that second place to you guys is perfectly fine i was telling sam on the last episode and i was like dude i prepared for this podcast interview i did i was like i've sent to my email being like hey you know here's a bunch of shit we could talk about because i know if i'm the host that's what i wanna get and so hopefully turn out anyways everybody should go check it out go to pops podcast yeah listen to a stock over there we did a bunch of i basically took sam i don't know if you heard it i i took a bunch i'm listening i was listening to it right before this i took a bunch of our best ideas over there and i was like here's a bunch that we've brainstorm and then yeah we just shot the shit after that yeah my favorite part is that you sent me that a really detailed email which i told you and i'll repeat again was incredibly helpful and then i didn't return the favor so sorry yeah well you know not everybody's me not everybody can put in that prep work this is like you know one of the things i was talking about is how i'm lazy but then when i do something i go like really over the top with so i just either don't do a whole lot of things i should do like for example you know now that i was on your podcast i see all the smart little things you're doing it's like oh it gets posted onto linkedin and it gets posted multiple times onto twitter kind of on like hits the different time zones it's like do these are you know basic blocking and tackling best practices but i know i'll never do and so we we will never get the gains of that i don't think sam gonna do that either if you wanna yeah if you wanna understand i think of it in terms of batches so like you gotta do fifty episodes and then you've earned the right to like learn you know one zero one core stuff then like you do another fifty now you've reached a hundred episodes now you unlock like two zero one learnings as and so as you keep going like there's things that you know these folks who've have done thousands of episodes they understand it way better than you guys or or myself but just gotta get to a thousand episodes and then somehow we magically learn that stuff too well this is episode number one hundred so this is a big milestone yeah so pump you you are known for this podcast you have now and you're known for being a twitter personality right i mean that's like the high level to be honest i have no clue how that happened but yeah i think that a lot of people that's actually hell know me which is pretty crazy how many people listened to your podcast podcasts roughly so far this year we just last week we crossed over ten million downloads for the year wow wow wow wow so you were and before that you worked at snap and you worked at facebook were you an executive or a product manager or what i was a product manager at a facebook get this job at snap dude did i feel like you went from like you know normal person at facebook too you got a pretty big job at snap and i know a bunch of shit went down so i don't know if you could talk about all of it but can you talk about like how you even got that job because it was a pretty legit role for what you had done before that right yeah i i think a lot of it is one just the progression of people on the growth team at facebook so there's plenty of people who who'd gone to go run the growth team at other kind of high flying early stage startups ups so you know ed baker went to uber right somebody went to lyft somebody went to airbnb yada yada whatever so that definitely doesn't help when you kinda come from the right farm system if you will and then internally at facebook you know really i kinda built my reputation internally just right time right place i got there and they were like hey you should go do this facebook pages thing i was like i have a page and i know you have profile that's different than a page and i was like oh okay well like what's page and so you know they were just like hey go grow that and small team but just kinda work on the right thing at the right time and next you know it exploded and it was kind of like this greenfield right when you haven't optimized something at all literally just like changing the color to a button can lead to you know fifteen percent gain or what whatever it is and so very quickly it just became like hey there's this game of growth and you seem to be pretty good at it so like let's moving around internally and kinda do a bunch of different things and then i think really just reputation spreads from there and i got one question for you from hundred your time facebook so on the brainstorm when we do the brainstorm storms we have all these different kinda like themes something like we're we just find that a bunch of ideas fit in these same buckets and so one of the buckets i was talking about is what i call the export bucket which is like if you're ever at a big company you see a whole bunch of problems and and solutions and so you see problems that you didn't know existed and it's like dude we would import a solution we would buy a solution for this if somebody could solve this problem for us we would have bought and then on the other side it's like we have this problem we kinda made an internal tool and if this this should actually be exported every company should have this tool and i think facebook is probably the most popular one where that has happened where they just people have left facebook and just tick the facebook internal tool and made it a saas tool for everybody else is that something you've seen like can you talk a little bit about that because i don't think most people know about that so definitely that is one strategy there was also although many of them i think i've left at this point there was this like little angel and esther mafia at facebook and it was kind of like the right of passage if you were leaving to go to a competitor they weren't excited if you were leaving to go to like a non competitor but large tech company you know hey well wish is esther and if you're even a start a company you basically had like go see the mafia right in in kind of a a very nice friendly way but really was just you could literally walk out of the door with angel investment right and kind of have your pre round seat ground done and so through that process there's a lot of people who just say hey i'm gonna go build you know x company it's like y internal tool but for everybody else and everybody gets it right away and they're like yeah they're like i use that every day right so i mean one of them that i i'm sure it's out there i i haven't seen it but was a huge factor to facebook's growth was international rationalization is the way they described it but the width they did it was really key early on facebook looked at other companies like how do you get into international markets it's like it's a different language and so mostly would go and they would like translate their site and do all that kind of stuff facebook actually took the opposite which was they just open sourced it to some degree they basically said hey if you're a user and you speak both you know english and whatever the national languages like can you help us and all of the support ported and so they were able to basically tap into the user base and get all of the translations done and also get it done much more accurately faster kind of more scale whatever and so i've always one that mechanism of just like how do you have a tool that you can ask your users to do the work for you so it creates a better experience for them and all of the other users on the platform that's like a really interesting mechanism and then the second is specifically around translation you know most companies now that the internet's become much more kind of adopted around the world literally just getting into new markets by translating could could lead to lot growth so that's kind of an immediate what was your title at snapchat officially i think it would actually don't remember either head a had a growth or growth lead i can't remember basically it was like hey you're gonna come and run the growth team awesome wow okay what do you wanna do hates it because i just put random shit as my title on linkedin that doesn't match my internal title because my internal title is like a real technical like it's like ten words long and like no i think what i really do is i lead international growth so i'm gonna say i'm the head of international growth there is no such a role inside of twitch but i'm the if there was one i think i might be that and it pisses people off to know end but i'm like dude this is one of those things it can't be enforced or nobody's gonna really enforce it and it's just really funny how people do that everyone's like a vp on linkedin and internally they're like junior associate so one one of the things that cracks me up you know i grew up on the east coast went to the west coast and there was definitely like this culture difference between kinda east coast companies but also like the wall street bristol silicon valley type thing and so now back living in new york and what you see is like every single person like you know exactly where they are the org structured by their title on wall street right are they an analyst are they a principal are they a managing director or are they a vp like it's pretty well documented in our and kind of you know it's level set right yeah and just like and by the way and people like really want a title in silicon valley exactly what you just describe like literally people you know hand the chief jan right like they could care less about the titles you know it's just kinda like joking around and it's much more about kind of work product so i i don't know just an interesting tidbit that that afternoon know is kinda going back and forth between the two coast and you're known as like a bitcoin guy i mean that's like one your one of your one of your world right you you you guys are coming up with every label possible it's like hey you're the twitter guy you're the podcast well the guy you're the investing guy you know how like sean's the framework guy sean loves framework i i tend to like i like the label stuff and i like to put it in these boxes because it helps me understand even though i know that it's not the whole truth it's just nine times at a ten will somebody will come on and they'll be like telling about their their like what do you what does your business do we ask as you should they explain for like two minutes it sounds like i'm gonna say like in stupid words basically what you guys do is you charge a whole bunch of money for people to read your news like whatever you know like some random like simple overs simplification it's great that's a super powerful skill to have is take complex ideas and get them into simple language well it's like it's like look i know that like i'm gonna insult you but you're basically like high space but you're like a little better and different correct so so what is your using that logic what's your description of the hustle i usually say we're like wall street journal but like twenty year old dudes who are interested in entrepreneurship yeah that's not that's not the dumb down version that's that's still like kind of think gradual that's the sales pitch yeah that's okay we what you want it to be we we we write about a bunch of business stuff and some people pay money to advertise and other people pay money to access the information i don't know is that right it would just be like you every morning we sent out like i sent an email with the news and a shit ton of people read it like that's yeah that's based you guys do that's fair that's what i'm like saying calling on a newsletter business is kinda simple but okay i i that is my own you're giving me my own medicine but what you you're you're known as i mean you do you do a lot of bitcoin stuff right yes got it okay i'm just trying to give the audience and perspective here so yeah alright so look basically here here's the hell the way i think about it is i was in the army i then built two very small technology companies that essentially especially were failures but i like navigated nicely fairly yeah yeah exactly like you know did way better than i should have then went to facebook went to snap and they started investing full time and started out kind of full generalist early stage investor and then like double and triple down on a bitcoin and and crypto and all that stuff and you know i still do some things outside of it but for the most part that that's pretty much it and i just think it's like one of most innovative areas and did you make enough money at snap and facebook that you're using your own funds to invest in stuff is that how it worked or did you raise money so in the beginning one of my partners and i we started out with personal capital and we did i think it was like eight deal something so it wasn't a lot of money that that we kinda put out there but it was definitely enough where we kinda of felt like hey do like we know what we're doing right like can we like find a deal can we negotiate the actual terms like well investor take our money like all all the basic stuff that like if you're really kind of insecure when you're first starting something new you wanna make sure like if i'm gonna lose money it's gonna be mine not somebody else's and it also is helpful when you've got a partner who he sold a company for almost half a billion dollars yeah that's how like yeah so he like you know it is is a little bit more you know wealthy than than most people but at when we were doing this it it was just like hey it's like do what work doing and then once it was like okay like these are like interesting and like we like show other people like hey here's the first eight that we did like we'll put these into a fund if you put money into the fund too and then like we'll like be partners and the l piece is going like oh that sounds awesome and so literally we did that and then what we started to do again because we had no clue we were doing is we would go to a founder and we'd would be like hey your company looks awesome you're awesome we want to invest but like we're like raising the fund as we're writing the checks so like i wanna invest but like let me come back to you with a number once i like go talk to the lps and then we'd go back and we'd be like hey if you put money into the fund then we can do this deal like here's the actual deal isn't this a great deal they like that's an awesome deal like okay cool like if you guys a hundred k then we're gonna put a hundred k in this company plus you get exposure to all the other deals in in the fund and so he's like oh this is awesome and they would give some money in the move do it and so like that's like very like hand to hand combat fundraising type stuff but when you're starting out and literally you'll take like fifty hundred k checks for like a fund it's just the only way that you can is like build the track record right and what you work i oh yeah yeah so big ones i probably can't share the financials but people a lot of people know so we invested in perfect produce in the i i'll call c round was like twelve million dollar evaluation that company has done incredibly well we also invested in every wellness that's they're like okay so julia i think we invested like fifteen million dollar evaluation they're absolutely crushing it what else is in there these weren't crypto projects so you you were just doing stage tech investment yeah these are all early stage completely agnostic like what was really interesting is we live on the east coast in north carolina we were doing remote investing only there wasn't the cool term for it at the time it basically was like use your computer and try to be smart and like out work people because you don't live at san francisco new york at the moment and so we ended up investing i think was like twelve or fourteen cities or something like we literally didn't care where people were located because it was all virtual and the second thing was twenty five percent of the founders were female right so twenty five percent the companies had a female founder i think it's it's the right way to say it but like that wasn't a mandate and like after the fact like all the me two stuff happened like call that we like i wonder how many you know female founders we have our portfolio and we wouldn't like to the math and i do think that this whole idea of having like investing remotely just naturally like broaden the horizon you're willing to kind of invest in another geographies other types of people whatever so it'd be interesting to see kinda the covid impact to station investing alright today's episode is brought to you by tempo tempo dot fit is the website i actually use this i've used this for a few months now and it's this machine that has a screen in this three d sensor and what it does is they give you weights it's like a hundred and fifteen pounds in weights and it's for strength training so what it is is it measures your body and it sees how much weight you're lifting it sees how many reps you're doing and how much effort you're putting in what your part rate is it's pretty amazing and then you have a coach on screen walking you through what to lift how many to lift what workout to do whether you wanna do a twenty minute ten minute fifty minute workout it's pretty amazing but the best part is the leader board the other stuff all the features that they have that's cool but i'm obsessed with the leader board because it measures how many reps you're doing and how much volume you're doing and you can compete with other people who have taken the same class it's maybe wanna work harder lift more weight or have more endurance it's just pretty freaking fun and the whole point of working hard is to have money so you can spend it on stuff that'll will make you live longer and this product tempo it checks that box for me so there are sponsored today if you use the code tempo hustle you'll get a hundred dollars off so tempo dot fit is the url and tempo hustle one word you'll get a hundred dollars off so check it out i use it if you look me up on twitter you'll see i'm always filming videos where i'm talking to that company i'm trying to crush their employees on the leader board because i actually love this thing and i and i use it all the time so check it out and then the last business mention is a company called cub coats this one's awesome i know those guys yeah i do okay well i i've i've met him and then other friends that told me about coconut since since i out because he was always doing a little internet internet traffic basically and i was like guy smart i man what is it so so we invested it was called jacket pets at the time and jacket pets was literally the idea of this kid zach park who if i remember correctly he like basically was murder guy yeah he like go to people being like sam you got an awesome product i'll put it on kick starter and like i know the formula and we'll sell like ten million dollars on kickstarter and he did this like multiple times and then was just like ham did this for myself and so jacket pets was take a stuffed animal kids don't wanna leave it behind so like let's put a zipper in the back and then when you unzip the stuffed animal you can like turn it inside out like press it inside out and it'll turn into a kid's jacket and so like you're like that's kind of like a crazy idea but like this kid understands kickstarter like i'm sure he could like you know come out of the gate and then we showed a couple of lps who were already in the fund and everything single one of them was like my wife would buy that tomorrow or like my husband thinks this is a great idea you know whatever for my kids okay this might have legs we invest he one kills kick whatever i forget the metrics but like know knocks at a park two then he goes and he starts licensing so he does like licensing deals with everyone from like major sports leagues to like the disney marvel of the world whatever and then he gets him into retail selling them i'm online like he just like explodes the business as one of our best performing investments it's like you know it's make it it is eight figures of revenue we'll put it that way wow so so it's like a real business right it's not like hey we sold three hundred thousand dollars on kickstarter and like we're right it's like a legitimate business where kick kickstarter happened and then they built the scalable business on the back end you know both retail online okay i wanna talk about some ideas sean is okay if we get into it i've never said no okay before we do well this is kind of an idea i wanna i'm writing down my notes of what you're talking about i wanna talk about this export stuff from facebook but i'm currently traveling pump i'm looking for where i wanna settle down and there's this great book i'm reading and i'm learning about called tribe have you heard of that tribe yeah and have not okay it's called tribe but it's all looks at like what makes tribes and one of this guys one of the points sky makes is that in israel the rate of ptsd for soldiers is like one percent but in america it's like twenty five percent because soldiers go and do their thing and they shockingly where this is shocking for me as someone who's ever done anything like that they are depressed when they come home because they love being in a tribe in the military and they even though they're risking their lives and they were drinking like you showed me nine alcoholic beer and there were so many reasons to be unhappy because it was hard they felt wonderful or they felt cam and that would gave them fulfillment and it's like they are in the trenches to not really serve their country but this help their their their peers their partners in in the military and it gave them purpose and in america we do a really bad job of like you know we go to our suburban home and it's like off my property or you know stay away from my home this is mine that's yours did you sense that when you came home from sir you were in afghanistan you said right i iraq i iraq sorry yeah so for those i don't know i was the military for six and a half years ended up when i left the military as a sergeant in the infantry deployment to rocket two thousand eight thousand and nine was ta which is like twelve miles north of baghdad so i've never heard it described as the tribes and i'll read the book and let you know when i about that specifically but one of the things i've always told people is people you know are like weird and they always have like ask clint to do questions and so they'll be like why don't you have ptsd right and i'm like okay like i i guess we're just gonna have that conversation fine i like sometimes how people ask like when the first twenty minutes of evening them or you're like man you really have no filter but the way that i've always i thought about it is i went from playing football in college which is like a pretty violent sport all dudes a lot of cam karate like all that kind of stuff to then i got deployed when i was a junior so i literally got pulled out of school got deployed to a much more violent situation right obviously there's guns with bulls farms all kind of stuff but still all dudes and a lot of cam and then when i came back i actually went back and played football so my transition back was not like in iraq two weeks on you know transitioning back and then like working at you know one of my friends at home depot right like that's like a really really you know black and white contrast for me it was going back into playing football violence for right comrade guys like like all of the ingredients were there they basically just took away our guns right and so i've always credited that with like the transition being much easier and it makes a lot of sense in this tribes kinda of framework where we probably could do much better if we literally just kept people tied to something where it's some identity or or whatever do you feel like where where do you you you and your wife congratulations by the way you and paul right do you guys you live in manhattan now we do do you feel like you have tribe a tribe at all in a high rise building so in the building no i i don't even to think i could tell you a single person that we know in the building by name but you know i mean you get like easy stuff like the doorman and and and stuff like that that we talk to you every day whatever but we got a lot of friends right that are kind of all throughout manhattan and you know we generally are are social to some degree and try to kinda meet up with people every weekend or whatever so i think that helps is just not you know building specific the reason i'm bringing this up is because this is a business podcast and i think that there's a a ton of opportunity that's gonna happen i think that gen z and now our generation because we're a remote i think there's gonna be a massive massive problem with loneliness and men in particular above the age of thirty who are single have a huge problem meeting people and i was reading the stats and it's crazy that since the nineteen fifties right after world war two as we move to the be and as we got a little bit more stoic like where men aren't supposed to you know talk to men with the with a sense of love although i think that's improved a lot recently but anyway i think ben are gonna be crazy lonely more lonely than normal in the next handful of years and as someone who ex military i don't hang out with a lot of military guys i was like i wonder if you experienced that because there's some opportunity there i think so two things i would say is one i definitely think that businesses that are able to build the communities not just have customer bases are gonna do incredibly well coming you know coming out of this whole covid thing and then also just in general in a digital age and some of it is like addressing the loneliness and then some of it also is just the internet provides you the ability to find people who have similar interest right and like that's really hard to do if you didn't have the internet and you lived in manhattan like you basically would have like try to go to bars and find like okay where's the people who like my sports team right or like where's is this whatever the internet you just like go to i don't know chicago bears dot com even though they're they're not very good team because the giants are better but you know this it's like that that's kind of one piece and then the second piece also is i still think that there's a ton of innovation to happen around meeting people so you see some of this with like the what is it a lunchtime dot ai or something right lunch or lunch money or something like yeah yeah what whatever it is you see this with like the club house kind of the the drop in audio whatever but it's just like i think a lot of people think of that category specifically is like oh it's over right like oh we have twitter we have what like i actually think that it hasn't even started yet and even if you go to the extent of so here's an idea for you dating apps what's the number one problem with dating apps and and if you guys had a guess if you went and talk to a hundred people what do you think their their biggest issue would be for women creepy men i guess an inappropriate men so along those lines one of the things i've heard people talk about over and over again is like the false promotion right like oh this guy looked like he was gonna be so hot and attractive or whatever and like i met him me he looks nothing like his photo right or like man that this girl like i i was so into her and then like we met for a date and she had like a squeaky voice and like i didn't wanna like hang out to her she was noise right or or whatever and and so i think that one of the opportunities and i've literally pitched this to so many people and nobody will build it so like whoever builds it please reach out to me is to create a dating app just called authentic and all you do is you hold down the screen right so there's no profiles there's no text there's no anything when you open the app you just hold down the screen to create your profile and a random question pops down and it's the selfie video you've gotta answer it on the spot just like you would you know a date or or an event or whatever and you can review it afterwards but you can't save it so you either get a choose right then and there i want this to be public or i wanna discard it and then if you discard it you hold that down again you get a different question you don't know what the questions are it's completely you know kind of authentically you there's no filters there's nothing it's video so i gotta hear your voice i gotta see your manner so i gotta see if you're smarter or not whatever and not only do i think people would create the content imagine the consumption experience it would be like watching you know american idol audition tapes right you could just see there and just keep there and just keep scrolling so would you doesn't but would you and i i would never invest in the dating space would you i think that again going back to people think that category is over i think it's probably one of the most ripe categories for not only disruption but also two those businesses make incredible amounts of money when done correctly like but so few of them are done correct like like there's it's it's like one of those it seems like one of those spaces where there's a few winners that kill it and then everyone else dies do you have one name of space is not like that right what what what space does not have a handful of winners and then everybody else dying right plumbers cleaning services like fine you want like are you gonna go invest in a plumber like what what's a stand here sand i mean like i don't know it it what i need is with a plumber it it's like a dating app to marketplace so you need everyone that's the type of investing he does you put in you put in a dollar and you're trying to get over a hundred back and like the only types of companies that can return hundred thousand x are gonna be things where there's a few winners that that win that win big right that's why hold on do you guys know what mud matches yes no i don't tell me pete these guy these guys are gonna love the fact we've mentioning that they don't even remember i talked to them three or four years ago it's a dating app for muslims muslims have the largest religion in the world and there are a number of intricacies and nuances to dating so please god hopefully i don't get any of this wrong but like little things like are you halal or not right like what food do you consume are you willing to move to another country if you meet the right person on this app right like all of these little things that are very specific to that segment of the world population they created an app and it's the largest dating app in the world for muslims and when i first heard that i was like you where they got like fifty thousand users like no it's a massive business and i haven't talked to them in literally two or three years so i don't know kinda how it's played out but i still see them all time online mentioned and stuff like that so it's like you can go do that for every single religion and i think people have done that you can go you know city by city you can do all these different things and so you could take an industry and just segment it and then just rebuild the same infrastructure with a different kind of skin on it and and probably do pretty well i have a friend who did almost exactly that it's not really fine i i mean i met the guy and he came to one of my kind of like founder mastermind things and it's like what are you doing it's like just a handful of people he's like i'm gonna build this dating after any people i was like oh great i would at the time i was sing indian person was like great talk to me and i realized it's definitely not for me because he was like the name was in hindi is bill mill which means like heart's meeting or something and then basically what it was is like as people wanted to get married so it was more like the match dot com or whatever i remember you know the thing you're talking about where every group has like these small nuances that make a huge difference them he was he did like log or sign you had to sign up with linkedin i was what the hell is this and he's like dude any people care about like what your profession is and if you don't have a job like you're not a candidate like you you should not be in the pool if you don't have a job and that's straight up that's how kind of old school people think it's like number one you know good job good family fair skin tall like these are the attributes and if you're you you can miss one but you can't miss like job for example dude there's far there's farmer dating yeah there's what it's farmers or whatever it's something like that yeah so there's all these niches and so he sold so anyways i remember that day being like this is interesting actually that could work and then he wasn't really stubborn about one thing and i was like okay i wanna invest in this guys he's just so stubborn he was like really insist that you would only have seven seconds to look at a profile and decide and i was like cool like that's interesting mechanic but like also might be total bullshit and like you might throw it away he's like no trust me no and i was like alright this guy is just like way too stubborn anyways fast forward a few years he sells the app this year for fifty million dollars too i think one of the conglomerate groups like match or whoever like that or all of these yeah they they own all the dating apps because he picked a segment and like you know just drove that segment home and knew how to users who had that particular problem that's pretty bad ass good for him i i love that idea like and and by the way this is like a recurring theme is if you go and if you ask how bunch of people like what are the verticals that are played out like those were actually probably the best ones to go after right so i just when everybody has written off at this point yeah it it's just like consumer social eighteen to twenty four months ago actually like pretty good time to start and do you see the rise of tiktok all of a sudden you see you know all these things like explode it's just right when everyone thinks it's over like here we go again so sean has kinda like invented this export business topic that i wanna bring up in a second think about like what could be exported from facebook or snap whatever i can give you an example of one that was that i that i heard of well yeah yeah i'll tell you tell you your example sean and then let them and then we'll go to a one topic and then come so you have him to think alright so the export example there's a company called launched dark i you familiar with them i have not but basically at facebook in many big companies they they have obviously you know you got a billion users if you launch a feature that sucks or is buggy or is gonna decrease engagement like you know leaving a feature that that decreases revenue by one percent can be you know tens of millions of dollars for for these companies so you have to be really smart about how you roll out a feature and especially with the app store you don't wanna roll something out and then have to go through app store reap approval and take seven days like this is how how used to be so facebook built a system internally from what i understand that was basically like lets you launch a feature with a feature flag meaning it's off by default and then the engineer from the back end can turn it on for a subset of people you could say i want one percent of users to see this only and if it goes good with a one percent then i'll i'll turn my knob and i'll get ticket it to five percent ten percent etcetera so this is like a standard feature that big companies have but small companies we're never gonna build the infrastructure to do something like this and so launched stark was like you know a couple of ex facebook when people spun out and they're like hey whatever i forgot the internal name of that tool at facebook it's like let's call it whenever code named medallion it's like oh we're taking medallion and we're making it available to every saas company that exists and these guys have crushed they raised over fifty million dollars and it's visits a a sort of a known known quantity that you're taking the the r and d of facebook the infrastructure of facebook and then your basically saying no other company no small company could afford this investment we'll do the investment once and we'll sell it to every small company for you know a small monthly fee and so they they've been tremendously successful with a with a small feature like that the first time i ever heard of this and i'd never heard of this export you know framework is because that's fucking trademarked is a your boys original you know people forget like before you go work with these big companies even and i joined in facebook when it was thirty eight hundred employees like four thousand somewhere in there and when i left like basically two years later it was already twelve thousand like like literally right when we were really really scaling and you forget like life beforehand because you walk in and like a bunch of these tools are there and you're like wow i can like go one percent and then five percent i can target based on geography and right we should go to new zealand because new zealand speaks english and reporters don't know nobody who reported there so they don't know what features are were getting tested and you know whatever but the first time that i started to help a friend after facebook i was like oh well you should obviously just figure out like what is your hook that identifies retention and he was like do you mean and i was well at facebook like i think if ever correctly it's like if you get ten friends in seven days or something right if you like friend ten people then like there's like eighty five percent chance whatever the number is yeah but like that forever at an early stage company like of course yeah that's gonna take me four weeks to get like any interesting data so i gotta figure it out now well and and what they would do is one you've gotta have the system to do the testing right two you gotta have enough data over a long enough period of time to actually know did it lead to you know thirty ninety you know two your retention rates all that kind of stuff and then the third thing you're gonna have engineering capacity to change your product around to test all the different things so i've ever been like oh it's gonna be so easy like you know it's literally like an internal tool whatever and he was like what do you mean like i have like one engineer you two engineers whatever it was he was like i can't do that it's just sort like googling around and there was a company amplitude which i think now it's like pretty popular actually but that was like one of their big early selling points was like hey we can basically look at a bunch of your retention data and tell you like here's the thing that is the highest signal as to having a retained user base and then you can like basically manipulate your product like make everyone good do that thing so for facebook it's you know if it's funding let's force everyone to give us their contacts their emails like at whatever we could possibly do is suggest the right friends once they hit their ten friend you know quote or whatever then we can back off and let them enjoy facebook but like we're super aggressive in the first seven days to make sure that they hit that right for every product there's something yeah slack has like you're i think it's a thousand messages was the was the milestones like once you get past a thousand messages you'll never churn off slack or something like that like a bunch of different companies have their their magic moment where it's like once you pass this magical threshold we we know we got you you're you're you hit core value you understand what this is all about and you're gonna have a great experience absolutely so well i wanna give you a second to think about that because it right because sean put you on the spot a little bit and or we both did but let me tell you something that i heard this week there's this guy named nick hub or i think i his name is that i met i was driving doing and doing a live twitter thing and he like started talking and like i dude let me talk to you now and he like called my other phone and we did like a live interview on twitter is kinda cool and he was like so what this guy did was he was in a service business and then he started to buy storage companies and put software on it and he's consolidating them then that's cool but he was like the thing that i learned about a service business is that it's the it's not a problem about having too much demand because if i'm providing a service that's popular like i'm always gonna have customers who want it the problem that i found is that i can't like the people who wanna work in this industry it's hard to train them and i need to and he's like the real problem is and i didn't wanna solve this problem was i needed to come up with a training system that i could teach a fifth grader how to do x y and z and have a repeatable and make it work well have you guys ever heard of this i i i don't know anything about services but have you heard of this problem before sean yeah i think this is the the limit of every service business is how do i have enough peep i can't scale my time i don't either want to or i can't anymore so can i get other people to do what i do without losing the magic of what works for me right like that's the the biggest issue and so i started researching this there's and there's there's a few things that do this the first is there's a company called health stream health stream is publicly traded its base in nashville i think it does three hundred million in revenue and they teach nurses how to do the latest procedures so if it like for corona it's like alright the new procedure for welcoming people to do x y and z and they just have like it's basically they just make videos and everyone logs in and watch the video what are some interesting businesses that this could work for you know it's and i've noticed it with my company even like training people to do this thing is it's actually hard like i just create this google doc and i'm like fuck they're not even gonna read this same even though was gonna make their job better it's it's two problems right so one is the people who know how to do the task like one they've gotta be good at documenting it and then two is you've gotta get people to actually consume the content as well right so it's almost like this twofold fold problem and i gotta to imagine that there's a big business in every single regulated industry right so for cfa for nurses you know just go down the line where you mandate the training so like oh there's some regulation or oversight committee or you know what whatever the thing is that forces everyone to you know be up to date on whatever the latest stuff is and if those rules are in place then basically the demand is you know infinite because it's just how many nurses are there in the country they all have to take this training and so like i can just go build the business and i know that i can walk in every hospital and they have to buy from either me or one of my competitors right my buddy is in the like i don't know if you could recall it like he's like a professional speaker or something he like goes does workshops and his his he basically has three three types of clients one is like high end company like a ferrari or you know whatever chipotle like a big company you know you know mastercard will hire him to get come in and and talk and then half the time when he's on the road he's like yeah i'm at the iowa middle school district blah i'm like oh cool you're doing like a pro bon thing and he was like no like dude these schools pay more than the companies and i was like what he's like yeah they have this like professional development budget that they have to spend and then they have these like whatever the like kind of target is of the year like he's like for last year it was all about growth mindset and so i'm the best guy for growth mindset and so every single school district wanted me and had thousands of dollars that want me to come talk to seventh graders or fourth graders about you know about this and the teachers also that you they they have they have a budget for this it's like then the next year it'll be around you know social emotional learning or like whatever it's like whatever the the top level says hey this is the mandated thing you all gotta learn it's kinda like your nurse's thing it's like we all gotta learn this procedure or this technique or the this best in class and then some you know some speaker somewhere like oh shit payday this year i'm going on tour like lady gaga and that's what he basically does it's like incredible but but i also think master classes like a version of this right it it's it's unstructured training and it's software for a specific job but it it's like the self improvement professional development whatever like there's a lot of people that buy that and the other element is like who's paying right so like that nursing training the nurse isn't paying forward it's phone code from one of these budgets or whatever but i do actually think that there's gonna be and and not like the there's kinda like the s like let me teach you to make money on the internet type stuff put much more like hey how do you start a podcast hey how do you you know create a successful newsletter right like like saying if you guys came out with that tomorrow it's like you would sell a lot of whatever that is what don't where we are okay and there you go right so like but but it's just like as you kind of go down the line you could look at what are all the successful things that people have done on the internet and if you understand how they did it or you go get them to do it if they just document their process like there's somebody in the world who wants to be that person or have that type of business and they'd be willing to to pay for it may not be you know a billion dollar business but you made a couple million bucks a year just selling you know training manuals on a million internet jobs right my father law is in the moving business he owns of moving business called eagle transport where you live pump in manhattan it's a great company and i'm like why haven't you like it's a cash flow thing it provides him a wonderful living and i'm like why haven't you expanded expanded and this is a common thread because my father owns an old school company as well i'm like why would you explain it he goes i don't wanna train these people like it's too hard like it's such a pain and you we're worth like i mean i'm just gonna sound like a dick you work with like a lot of like lower end people it's like they're like have issues you don't wanna fucking teach them and they're always a pain the ass and i'm like why don't you he's like i don't wanna deal with all these people this is just enough already well what i'm like what can i what can i do to just teach this is this is a it's not about training it's about actually replacing and automating like this is the training is an intermediary step that's never gonna be good enough and like what's happening so so have a friend he's he's big time investing in into automation that's his that's his thing so he's always telling me like i invested in this pizza robot company i'm like oh it's like some sexy consumer thing he's like no like basically they're just trying to get a pizza that can make perfect pizzas twenty four seven that they'll sell to domino's and domino's will were replaced four employees and be like okay domino's these this machine never gets sick never complains never checks its phone while at work and this machine will just spit out the same pizza all day twenty four seven how how how does that sound how much will you pay for that and then they're basically like oh you know how much money do i have let me give it let me give it all to you and so there's automation like i don't know if you've noticed there there's this there was a head fake early on with like kind of like in restaurants like digital menus kiosks like stuff like that and then it fucking happened both in airports and in restaurants like you'll you'll see the the kind of order here kiosk tablets there's a company called toast that i think it crush it with this like i don't wanna say a number but the it's a lot of revenue every single year and it's it's all because they can do the math and basically say hey we save you to to head count worth and when i save you that head count you also don't need the manager because the spends what percentage of time dealing with the headaches of people showing or not not underperforming or training or whatever because you know these people switch jobs all the time and so like sam the solution to your thing i think in most cases actually gonna be a form of automation where you just get rid of the human in in the loop all together i agree the there's also a macro trend here which i think is martha that i had this you know epic podcast episode where he basically out a very simple framework with which was simply the united states economy has pursued efficiency over resiliency so we basically ran around the world try to find the most efficient lowest cost way to produce things we became really really good at it and then like this pandemic basically exposed the fact that we gave up resiliency for efficiency and so his argument is that like we're gonna swing the pendulum back maybe not all the way but like in some direction where resilience is gonna become important again and you see this with like american companies wanna you know onshore their manufacturing and their supply chains and whatever the number one advantage that the american human labor worker has had is the fact that automation hasn't been able to replace them right like that's their biggest moat is the fact that like a machine hasn't been able to do their job and so therefore when these companies bring back those manufacturing facilities or those supply chains now the tech's actually getting pretty close like three d manufacturing automation like whatever it is and so if you just re if you just brought back your facility to the united states and try to use american labor at the cost you would like four to five x the labor cost that you have yeah compared to southeast asia or wherever so like it almost would be like cost prohibitive to do it but if you can instead use automation and three d printing or or whatever it is now you can actually bring it back to the united states increase your resiliency and keep some like barrier of efficiency as well and so i think like one there's gonna be this rise in popularity of the automation and three d printing but also there's gonna be a lot of people who like gotta go find new jobs right and so like how long does that take what do they do at you know we can get into all that but it's just like that trend i think is gonna become really really important as we come out of this covid stuff is there any space where you've seen that it you're shocked it's not automated i mean like everything i mean this it's it's it's a thing where we're like we all overestimate what's say like we we overestimate what we can do in one year like if you literally think of almost every single job i think that we all believe is gonna be me like how many people thought you know cards were gonna be automated and and self driving at this point there's a lot of people right how many people thought that the segue would eventually turn into the like automated robot that goes around the office buildings and make sure that you know it's acts as a security guard right or there's some level of shutting off the lights when no one's in the room so it saves on the energy bill but right now there's humans walk around in the big office putting like shut lights saw like stupid little things that each one of those applications probably ends up being a business at some point and then you get the like bundling of okay like i'm just gonna be the guy who goes and buys up all the businesses that optimize the operations of a commercial real estate building so let me buy the security robot company let me buy the light company you know whatever and then they build a big conglomerate and then somebody twenty years from now like un bundles it all again right and says hey i'm gonna go and i'm gonna compete whatever so it's just i think business cycles in general play out that way and and you know we're on the the start of the automation awesome there's an export one that's sort of related to what you're talking about sam yeah facebook they have they have this developer boot camp right so like i have a friend who he was my buddy he was like like a finance guy kind of thing went to facebook worked in the fraud department and then he went to the facebook developer boot camp that they have internally which is like hey and like eight weeks or so you can learn to be an engineer at facebook you'll start at the kind of the bottom but then you can grow from there and and now he's like cto of some tech company in new york and he weighs you know after a few years at facebook so he did the boot camp worked as an engineering at facebook for two three years and then left and then went to this company that was like a well funded well run company was like they're like kind of doing the interview his his pitch was so simple was so beautiful you go he just he goes i make your engineering team work like a facebook engineering team he's like i know that process that's how i work i'll just use that like i will take our blue our playbook over there and i'll make him work over here what's that club of like saying like you know i'm from the navy seals i you know i i'll come to your gym and i'll train you like a seal and it's like oh shit okay yeah yeah yeah that's what i want and so so he's now a cto of some company and so that same thing though like what facebook did which was not like just some online course you can click a button and take or go to linda dot com we bought you six credits it's like no there's a physical place in the building where you go and you get to do that for eight to nine weeks you get paid and then you walk out you know with a certain set of skills that's lambda school inside of a company and so facebook can afford to do it i don't know how many don't know google has the same i'm sure those companies have variations of this but there's gonna be a central company that does that as a service to every company so p and deloitte and all these other people they'll have a boot camp run by like you know whoever i think general assembly was trying to do this at one point in time but like somebody who specifically focuses on ups skill people for coding or ups skill for like using no code tools i think those will be like that's a note if i if i really wanted to run a kind of a people and service heavy business but still make big bucks i think that would be a way to do it is to go to big old tool companies and say look we put the facebook boot camp inside visa and we will train you train up some people here and we'll train them like the facebook people trade facebook and that would be i think a dope business people don't understand how how crazy that training process is like as a product manager i came remember it four or eight weeks but when you first get to facebook like you don't even have a team like they're like hey you're gonna go here for like four weeks right what whatever it was and they like teach you about product management at facebook but it's not just product managers it's like product management at facebook like right here's how we do things here's why we do them here here's all the things you need to know whatever and chris cox who was a chief product officer that left and then came back he talked to every single incoming class of employees like i mean it was like this is serious to us right this wasn't like a here's a one day in ind nation like here's what the bathroom is you know here's who your manager is and like if you have any problems like you know send an email to hr like this was like a real thing when i got to twitch the first day onboarding it was that this you know first half of the day was like hey you're gonna get your laptop and then my guy like the it i was like hey so i we're short on laptop so i'll get yours tomorrow so i'm just sitting there while everyone else boots up and then it's like alright it's lunchtime your lunch buddy someone who works at the company will come get you the guy never comes and i was like cool onboarding complete that was the whole that was the whole thing like this is a this a multi billion dollar company and so some companies have this like very rigorous process like the the facebook car wash they put you through where it's like you come in as like you know you know smart kid from wherever harvard or whatever you are but you're still gonna go through that six week car wash and come out like you know facebook product manager number three three four zero three and you know that works for them so i'm gonna read you guys let me see if i can find it so you guys know ga so i i mock ga a lot because i think it's kind of a and so i think it's a little bit of a scam i'm not everyone agrees i think it's kinda scam me how they do things but pumped do you know what they do like you know it's like it's like the research and they pull people and do stuff right i feel like you mock them but you're just it's like second graders that tease each but they actually like each other it's like yeah no i have a lot of respect for him them no i i i i totally do but i was reading this breakdown of how they work because ga they've been around since i think the seventies maybe it's worth like fifteen billion dollars and a lot of people are like how does ga do it because their research is like only okay but i was reading a breakdown and they're like their sales training is the best sales training in the industry and that they purposely churn like twenty five percent a year of their salespeople because they want a cut throat they they want to be cut through and when you first sign up they do two months of training and they fly do isolated florida hotel where they split you into teams that compete against one another in high pressure sales games every single day and around ten percent of her class was fired within the first two weeks but the others who made it bonded over it and they shared trauma and they consider themselves an elite cohesive sales organization of highly like a highly coveted team and that's how and they do it's an eight that's like the back of the dvd of like taken three it's like i have elite set of skills that i've been trained it sounds like boot camp like a literally like military boot coronavirus on day two just to see if your immune system can survive well it's at and it's actually pretty interesting because when you think about a company you think well it's the product that's amazing but like as someone who only works in small businesses i'm like i forget that it could be just like this crazy interesting it's not even that interesting like you're like oh no obviously do that but a lot people don't do including myself about these like really good onboarding techniques another company i did it was trilogy software which we've talked about on here which a lot of people don't know about but they were considered like as good as microsoft in the nineties and they would do the same thing where they would they would train developers like in a crazy good way and that's how they became so valuable and so that's kind of interesting an interesting idea here i don't know what to make of it but it is something that i didn't previously know that's for sure that that stuff all so i think becomes interesting because remember or cut code cut cut code knives i think it's house it's called whatever like basically they go door to door they sell knives right or whatever i know a lot of kids in high school college who would do it for money but in the back of their head they would say to themselves like learning a skill because the training was so extensive blah blah whatever and then like when i get done here i'm gonna i have this skill forever i bet right i don't know for sure but there's a bunch people who go to ga to be in the sales program for two years and they know they're not gonna let you know spend their career there but they just wanna get the experience and skills and they leave and so like that is a fantastic or recruiting tool as well and if you're gonna get rid of twenty five percent of people anyways like you actually probably lose the top like two percent who are like your best people and then you lose like you know your bottom twenty five percent or twenty percent or whatever it is so i i i tend to think that like the organizations that spend a lot of time on the training like word spreads like hey working there is good but the training you get will like serve you for the rest of your career and it helps on the recruiting front so back to import export thing is there anything at facebook that you think is stamps all about this when i a few i so so well you said a few but snapchat as well the i find it so interesting i mean only thirteen or fifteen or two however have many tens of thousands of people do work at facebook but they are world class at so many different things what or snap let's let's do snap snap even more mysterious to me well facebook is the easier once because i think that people will understand some of the tools and it's probably more it's a better comp to like what most people are are building and so i would say three things come to mind the first is the data science team at facebook is absolutely world class and they understand better than anyone in the world kind of the pursuit of truth and so if you look at the people who have left there everyone from you know the cha of the world whatever like it's just this pursuit of like i don't care what opinions are like show me the data and i'm gonna set up the test frameworks in order to actually get to the truth and it all boils was down though this one key insight that i had when i was there and i i didn't have it like a eureka moment like they literally just told me it they were like hey when you run these tests there's two things that are really important one you gotta have very clear goals like what are we going to measure success and and failure by and then two whatever the test is has to be executed perfectly and if you don't execute it perfectly and then it doesn't work you're left asking yourself like was it because we ran the test wrong or is it because actually we should go spend our time doing something else right so it's like the perfect execution component and so i i i think like this testing framework there's been tons and tons of tools but very similar to what sean said about kind of like hal make your software team like facebook just teaching the art of data science and testing and like the pursuit of truth i think there's some massive business to be be built there consequently there's a much of software that you can build around this as well like you could see yourself you go in you do the training and they're like oh by the way like you know here's all the watches underneath my jacket like you know here's my analytics tool here's my screen recording tool so you could watch user pathway here's my data science tool you know here's my way that you communicate with customers like you could just walk down every single touch point that that growth team would have with a product and then just build your own piece of software so it's almost this like consultative sales piece where you're making a much bunch of money up front on training and then on the back end you're following it with software and kind of getting more lt tv out of it i have a funny story about this so i met a guy this is un confirmed so this might be total bullshit i don't know but i like it already hilarious that's definitely true but but by the time you're done it's gonna be true so exactly so i'll just share it to you know hundreds of thousands of people because you know why not so so this is guy who works at facebook high up and he uses these tools that you're talking about the testing tool specifically i believe that there's a tool maybe it's called titan maybe it's not called titan i don't know exactly but there's a tool that basically when you run a test it tells you not just did your test work like oh we made the button blue that may you know did people more people click that button but it says hey here's every other kpi also so you didn't fuck up something else while you're trying to fix one thing you actually dropped another so it gives you this like really great way to analyze the whole picture not just your specific thing anyways i don't know much about this tool but here's what here's what i had heard i heard that this person was like okay i'm gonna spin this i'm gonna export this idea i'm gonna go make this its own startup they recruit a couple of people from internal they're like hey leave with me let's go do this they raise they actually raise money they go they rent an office everything and they get some you know goes into into the office to tell z like hey you know thanks for everything you know but like peace out i'm gonna go do this and something happened in that meeting that i don't know but we believe here's what here's what ended up happening the start up never take never get started the office rent they they just pay it off they don't ever go move into the office person keeps working at facebook and i believe what ended up happening was that duck basically was like you know you could go do that but like here's just oh a giant bag of money that i have with me like how about this instead and like how about you stay and you take the bag of money and we forget you ever said anything about leaving and then the guy was like no no like i really wanna do actually i've told my family i rented an office space i'm i'm already two feet out the door and he's like oh cool okay so so we're not gonna let you do this company actually we're gonna we're gonna have to pursue some action against you but again there's this bag of money and this is great role if you just wanna stay with the bag of money in the great role you tell me which way you wanna go and so i don't know exactly how the conversation went down but from what i have heard there was a conversation like this that happened again i might have been told bullshit but i love the story either way and i choose to believe that this was true and this person still works facebook did you guys read the the text messages yeah so sean like is obsessed with this and i he got me obsessed with it where he was like he like goes and like emails the founders of huge companies he's like hey forward me the emails when you were describing the early idea of your company i love seeing the evolution and i want the raw text i'm like a fucking paleo intelligence looking for the original source material it's pretty cool i like it as well he's got me to it and so to the listeners last week this this some type of chat transcript got out of kevin system the founder of instagram talking to a friend who was or talking to someone who i think was an investor investor of instagram but who also worked at facebook i think yes got matt cole he was early at facebook and he's a big time and and they were chatting back and forth and kevin was like hey matt z messaged me like he wants to he said this i think he means this and then they were talking back and forth about what that could mean and they were like he's gonna crush you so like if you don't do this right like he doesn't care he only he's gonna he's gonna destroy you so play ball the exact quote in there kevin's sis asks is he's like if we say no will he just like go into destroy mode yeah and the is just like yeah probably he's like fuck okay so what do i say that will not trigger destroy mode he's like maybe we could just say oh we're we're just trying to do this little filter thing we don't we don't normally really see ourselves like you know becoming a social network and he's like yeah he's also really smart like he's definitely so he goes he's too smart and he's like well should we tell him that we're gonna sell to twitter he goes you could he'll he'll destroy you i thought it was amazing did you and and i don't worry about at time did you ever have moments of like that where you're like oh god this guy's like angus khan he's gonna he's gonna he's gonna destroy i don't remember how many times i met with but i was always in a group setting so it it's never like we had like one on one but i was fortunate to work on this very small team that was specifically trying to help figure out like how do we grow mark zuckerberg market sheryl sand personal facebook pages right so interesting they didn't wanna like manipulate the product right like you could i literally remember we were yeah i remember we like one meeting and like one of the ideas at one point was like well why don't we just like put it in your it'd be like everyone follows up like kinda like tom my space style you know type thing and then part of the beauty of like a diverse team was like somebody else was like no like i grew up in a country where like the president used to like come on you know television and like take over the screen and like with his like you know message of like conquering the the people basically and he's like like there's certain places in the world like you don't wanna do this right and so what they ended up saying was like okay like we're just gonna have to do this without manipulating the product and like that's like the most fair way to do it and so it would be these meetings and the thing that always struck me was like you've got a guy who runs a you know multi billion dollar business been working out in a long time and he could be talking about like super long term company strategy and then immediately like there's a presentation up but he would like zero in on a screen i'd be like why is that buttons pixel like what and you're like dude you just went from like a a hundred thousand feet to like ground floor you know level feedback back to a hundred thousand and then shifted like left or right on various products and we've been in here for seven minutes like like you you order capacity in terms of like ingesting information and also being able to like sift through high signal low signal stuff it's just like bar on and so i was telling somebody in intro at the company at the time they're like look first shift have to remember like he has the most context here right like he's literally been at the company the longest and so like he seemed like these iterations of the product he remembers the conversations before they got launched the things i went right the things i went wrong like whatever but it was still this thing of just like man this dude's on it and like i'll read articles even today and people like say whatever they want about z they've like never talk to him or whatever never met him or whatever and i'm like do you think he like built a multi dollar company because he's an idiot right right and the thing that i'll i'll leave you with on z is a friend of mine was talking about them when they first announced libra and going into crypto and he's like look there's a lot of people who probably don't like z but there's not that many people who thinks he's dumb right right and so like you may not like him for whatever your personal preference you know reason is but like if he's going to do something a lot of people are gonna be like wait why is luck facebook going to do it right and they were talking specifically about crypto but like i think that's generally true across a lot of different things and so if all of a sudden people hear like you know they're making a huge investment in vr there's a lot of other people who are like wait why is he doing that like what does he know that i don't know and and you know they try to start looking around the corner but i think what you saw i didn't see the text messages but i saw some emails or something i think from an instagram thing it's just like look he saw the future right or at least like where he thought it was going and he like pretty much was like directional correct which was pretty impressed well yeah that's crazy i love those stories thank you for too we should we yeah you wanna wrap reception time damn i feel like we're were just scratching the surface but this was this was great pumped thanks for coming on man i hope you can come on again i think people are really gonna like you and your your your thoughts so appreciate you coming in absolutely thanks guys for having me we'll definitely talk thank you